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The Marketing Architects
The Differentiation vs Distinctiveness Debate
00:28:30
Only 15% of brand assets are truly distinctive. And just 19% of logos achieve "gold" status in recognizability according to a study by Ipsos and JKR. So which marketing strategy matters more: differentiation or distinctiveness? In this episode,...
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- [00:00]
Angela Voss
If you can be in a category of one, that's an amazing spot to be. But it's really distinctiveness that puts you in the minds of your consumers to even consider what differentiation you have. So without distinctiveness, differentiation has little shot of making that difference.
- [00:15]
Wayne Jasper
Marketing Architects hello and welcome to the Marketing Architects, a research first podcast dedicated to answering your toughest marketing questions. I'm Wayne Jasper. I run the marketing team here at Marketing Architects, and I'm joined by my co hosts Angela Voss, the CEO of Marketing Architects, and Rob DeMars, the chief product architect of misfits and machines.
- [00:35]
Rob DeMars
Hey y'all.
- [00:36]
Angela Voss
Hello.
- [00:37]
Wayne Jasper
We're back with our thoughts on some recent marketing news. Always trying to root our opinions in data research and what drives business results. Today we're talking about one of the classic debates in marketing differentiation versus Distinctiveness. What matters more to marketing success? Is it differentiation or creating a meaningful reason for consumers to choose your brand over others? Or distinctiveness making your brand easily recognizable and memorable through unique assets like logos, colors or taglines? And I'm going to kick us off, as I always do, with some research. And for this episode I thought I'd try to give both sides of the debate some space. So I chose an article. It's from work written by Rob Myerson, and it's titled what Does Myron Sharpe's Research Really Tell Us About Differentiation? He sets out to unpack one of the boldest claims in How Brands Grow that marketers should stop chasing meaningful differentiation and instead focus on what he calls meaningless distinctiveness. Meyerson digs into the research behind this claim, including a couple of core Ehrenberg Bass studies. One looked at 94 brands and 43 attributes, things like friendly or fashionable, and tried to see if brands with more unique associations performed better. What the study found was brands with more unique associations didn't necessarily have more buyers or stronger preferences. In fact, shared associations or the traits that many brands held seem to matter more in actual purchase behavior. But Myerson raises some valid concerns about the methods. For example, if Coke and Pepsi are both seen as friendly, that data point then gets ignored because the attribute isn't unique. But isn't real world differentiation often about relative perceptions, not absolute uniqueness? Like I might choose Sprite over Coke because it feels more refreshing, not because it's the only refreshing brand. Ultimately, the takeaway is this. The evidence doesn't show that differentiation is dead, it just shows it plays a more limited role than we've historically assumed. Distinctiveness absolutely matters, but we might be maybe over interpreting some of the Research that tries to bury it entirely. And the reports of differentiation's death may have been exaggerated. All right, so that article I think is nice because it gives a little bit of both sides. I thought it might be interesting to start off by having our own little debate on the podcast. So I asked Rob to come ready to argue the distinctiveness side of this debate. And then I gave Ange the differentiation side. I will say that I chose this randomly. It was not based off of what they necessarily believe, but whether you like your side or not, you're going to have to argue it anyways. So, Rob, do you want to kick us off with your distinctiveness?
- [03:09]
Rob DeMars
I've been doing, I've been doing push ups all morning and the one that I was able to do, I'm just.
- [03:14]
Angela Voss
This should be hard for you. She gave you the easy one.
- [03:17]
Rob DeMars
Well, I will say that Rob, from your study, we share the same name and that's about it, because I couldn't disagree with him more. If people don't notice you, they can't buy from you. I mean, it's that simple. Distinctiveness is about building memory. That's what we're in. We're in marketing, we're in about building memory. And memory drives market share in an age where consumers are overwhelmed, fricking bombarded by thousands of messages a day. Right. The only way brands are going to be able to win is through being distinctive. I love that this is my side of the equation and that Angie's going to be talking about this because I've heard the argument I'm giving from her for years. I love that she has to argue the other side. But as we know, distinctiveness, that they really anchor our, our memory from the golden arches to the good old intel chime to, of course, the Geico Gecko. They really say, they, they cut through the clutter and they say, this is us, check us out. And it's, it really isn't just about recognition. It's about mental availability. When you're there, you're on the shelf, you're. I love this. I can see Angela just laughing at me right now. I'm like, she's just like, yep, tell me more, tell me more. Rob.
- [04:37]
Angela Voss
It'S fine.
- [04:38]
Rob DeMars
It's mental availability. I mean, when you're sitting there at the shelf and you're looking at the, at two different products, the one that pops in your mind, that's the one you're gonna buy. And also at the end of the day, distinctiveness scales, right? Your competition can rip you off. When it comes to your features and benefits, but it's harder to rip off someone's distinctiveness once they've really anchored it amongst consumers. So that is the argument that Angela has made for distinctiveness. Now let's hear her argument.
- [05:08]
Wayne Jasper
I'm talking about your argument, Rob, not.
- [05:11]
Angela Voss
It's because I agree. No, but I agree.
- [05:13]
Rob DeMars
I agree with. I agree with all of it.
- [05:15]
Angela Voss
So, Rob, Rob, you need to stop pretending that slapping a catchy jingle on a commodity turns it into a powerhouse brand.
- [05:29]
Rob DeMars
Okay? Bring it.
- [05:31]
Angela Voss
Distinctiveness without differentiation is just noise. It might win you a glance, it might get you a chuckle, but it won't get you market share. And perhaps the marketing world has fallen a little too hard for the Byron Sharp doctrine. Maybe I fell that way in my past, but now I'm on the other side.
- [05:53]
Rob DeMars
Did you hear that, Byron?
- [05:55]
Angela Voss
No. Memorability is meaningless if there's no reason to buy. If I remember you, but I don't care about you, or worse, I remember you and still choose someone else, what did all that distinctiveness get you? But here's the thing. Differentiation is harder. And so I think more people go, well, we're going to be distinctive. Differentiation is harder. It forces you to make strategic choices, to stand for something real, to build product, offer message in alignment. But that's exactly why it matters. It's what gives brands resilience. It's what earns pricing power, repeat business loyalty in the face of knockoffs. If distinctiveness is the costume, then differentiation is the character underneath. And if your brand doesn't have a soul, who cares what it's wearing? So, Rob, I will ask you, do you think Apple is more distinctive or differentiated than their competitors? And what's made you such an Apple loyalist?
- [06:56]
Rob DeMars
Wow. That's personal, not fired. You know, I definitely can see your point when you look at Apple right now and their. Their lack of differentiation in their ability to create new white space in the marketplace. They've had to lean on their distinctiveness of their brand identity right now. And I think that that gas tank is starting to run on empty. So I think that as much as I know I want to defend Apple, I think that's. They're a case in point where, you know, I'm making your argument right now.
- [07:36]
Wayne Jasper
Yeah. What's happening?
- [07:39]
Rob DeMars
I'm very persuaded by your Jedi mind trick you just did to me, Angela. But here's my. Here's the one thing I would say is I. Obviously, they're both important, right? But we're marketers, we're agencies, and we have to deal in the things that we can control. So if I go to our client and say, we need to goose your processor speed so you're more differentiated in the marketplace, and then we're really going to be able to make it sing. They're going to be like, yeah, we're in a trade war with China right now, so go do your job, ad boy. You know, so. And I do, and I think there's something true to that. Our job is to go, how do we see to like things and create distinctiveness through this amazing thing called branding? And that is our job. And so as much as it's nice to throw it back on the client's product and go, well, you gotta be more differentiated. Or it's like, yeah, of course they want that, of course they can. But what can we control and what can we offer them as marketers?
- [08:42]
Angela Voss
Good debate.
- [08:43]
Wayne Jasper
Yeah. So, Ange, your heart wasn't really in the differentiation side, huh?
- [08:48]
Rob DeMars
It was a good one, though.
- [08:49]
Wayne Jasper
You did a good job.
- [08:50]
Angela Voss
Yeah, that was good. I mean, I think this gets us into the gray area a little bit, don't you think? Like, is it one or the other? You know, do we really need to choose between distinctiveness or differentiation? And my perspective, I guess, is that we shouldn't be thinking either or. But I do think one wins out if there was an either or. And I think too, the answer sort of depends on category dynamics. Think about fast moving consumer goods, snacks, shampoo, soda. Distinctiveness does the heavy lifting. You're competing in crowded aisles, fighting for attention. Your buyers are mostly light, infrequent users. And that's where I think distinctive brand assets like colors, logos, shapes help you win at the shelf quickly and efficiently. But if you shift into high consideration or high ticket categories, maybe the story changes a little bit or the order of importance maybe changes. If I think about insurance, home appliances, healthcare, maybe enterprise software, distinctiveness still matters for awareness. Yes. But once you've made it into the consideration set, differentiation maybe starts to drive choice a little bit more, that's where people start asking like, okay, now what makes this worth my money? Do I trust it? Is this worth my time? And when we think about something like brand loyalists, which I had to sort of defend there, you know, most people aren't brand loyalists, then these points of meaningful difference become even more powerful. But as Sharpe would argue, the growth comes from the light buyers. And those buyers are more influenced by availability and by salience than by deep emotional bonds. So maybe the takeaway, if I was to try to summarize is that differentiation doesn't hurt. Of course. Great. You know, if you can be in a category of one, that's an amazing spot to be. But it's really distinctiveness that puts you in the minds of your consumers to even consider what differentiation you have. So without distinctiveness, differentiation has little shot of. Of making that differ. Ironically speaking, differentiation has little.
- [10:53]
Rob DeMars
Yeah, totally. Those two words are a mouthful.
- [10:55]
Angela Voss
They are mouthful.
- [10:56]
Rob DeMars
No, I think you're right. I mean, and there's an obvious symbiotic relationship. And while this doesn't transfer 100% to what we're talking about, I always liked what I think it was David Ogilvy that said, can a great ad sell a bad product? And his answer was yes, once. And I think that's where it is. That combination between creating that amazing distinction that drives that response, but then also having a product experience and that point of differentiation that keeps people coming back.
- [11:25]
Angela Voss
Right.
- [11:26]
Wayne Jasper
One thing that comes to my mind when I think about the debate, and I agree that trying to choose between one or the other doesn't really make a lot of sense, but maybe people get a little too focused on differentiation sometimes and might neglect distinctiveness. I remember reading some sort of stat or study that most B2B buyers, which we usually think of B2B as like a really more of a thoughtful. Right. Type of purchase, most of them choose the first vendor service that comes to mind. That's hard to hear. You know, like, if someone's, like, looking for a TV agency for us, like, being the first one they think of matters a lot. Even though it's a high consideration purchase, like, it just helps so much to be first to mind. And that's typically done through distinctiveness, not differentiation. So that's where it's like, all right, well, ideally you'd have both, but without being distinctive, I don't know if you stand much of a fighting chance in the long term.
- [12:21]
Angela Voss
A hundred percent, your scorecard becomes a lot harder. I think we've felt the effect of that as we grew our brand, you know, in years past where maybe we weren't one of the top three that come to mind. And. And yet you're still a part of the RFP and you're dealing with a great offering and you're. The buyer you're working with is really compelled by what you're selling, but at the same time, you're working against, well, folks that are here, there's never really have heard of you before. And you're like, well, what's the scorecard like? Awareness or, like, what we can do for your business. It's hard, but it matters.
- [12:54]
Wayne Jasper
Yeah. And I think if we're really honest with ourselves and we think about, like, the biggest brands in the world and the biggest categories, it's like, all right, are the brands that you like, do you really like them because they're truly different, or did they stand out to you and now they're in your brain and you happen to purchase them? So one thing that I thought we could talk about is our own experience with clients because we work with brands on television commercials. And I was wondering, Ang, have we seen them perform better on TV when they are meaningfully different, or has distinctiveness seemed more important?
- [13:27]
Angela Voss
Yeah, it's a hard question, you know, as I thought about the hundreds of campaigns that we've put on air and how to decipher between the two, because, again, I do feel that we do need to have a good product. And if you have a good product, then in theory you have some differentiation that speaks to your consumers. But TD isn't where you create differentiation or distinction, and it's really where you amplify it. And with 15 seconds or 30 seconds, maybe 60 seconds to work with, distinctiveness is just simply more achievable. Right. It's easier to drive recognition and salience than it is to unpack the nuanced competitive advantage. So differentiation almost by nature pulls you into comparisons, what you offer versus what others don't. And that can easily steer messaging into that left brain territory. Rational proof points, product claims, feature lists. But we have found TV works best when you're tapping into emotion, identity, storytelling, the right brain stuff. So it is a balance. But I would say from a business strategy standpoint, TV delivers, I think, most powerfully when the brand already has a solid foundation of physical availability, mental availability and distinctiveness. Distinctive gets you noticed, availability gets you bought. And differentiation is sort of the fuel for loyalty. Premium pricing, building your moat as a brand. But you need a different stage or more time on screen to really land it. Well, I think Rob can speak more to, like, how we thread that need of creatively. But that's the model we see working again and again.
- [15:05]
Rob DeMars
Yeah, I'm going to not answer this question clearly.
- [15:10]
Wayne Jasper
Perfect.
- [15:11]
Rob DeMars
But I, Because I wanna. I wanna roll around in our own experience for a second. And I know we've brought it up many times on the podcast before, but you know, when we brought our own product to market in the hurricane, and you think about, okay, well, it's this cane that can stand on its own, which is very differentiating in the category, especially for the kind of base that it was. And it worked on lots of different surfaces. And it was collapsible or is collapsible. And. And we're looking at that going, man, this is a really differentiating walking cane, right? If anything can be differentiating while making a stick, differentiating, that's an accomplishment. We should really talk about that in the ads. But at the same time, we're like, well, we in. We were in a position where we could influence the brand itself and whatnot. But we said, we're going to, we're going to call this thing the Hurricane, the All Terrain Cane, which, you know, some people laughed at us, a lot of people, you're going to name it after a natural disaster. And David Letterman even got up in his monologue and talked about the hurricane. So they're like, wow. Well, that's because it was distinctive, right? So you've got this product that's differentiating because it's unique. And so that was working for us, but we also made it very distinctive. And then to, I guess Angela's point, we amplified that on the largest platform on the planet, which no other cane company had been doing at the time. And even since then, we've had many people go and knock off the Hurricane. It really was probably after scale. And we became the number one cane on Amazon. We sort of proved the viability of the concept. Couldn't have been longer than six months when you started to see the knockoffs come into play. But still, can you name one? Can you name one knockoff? I can't. But you remember the Hurricane. So I just think that shows the, the value of that distinctiveness, but also, boy, the value of a differentiator for a category, you know, so kind of going into the both ism there, but without the distinctiveness, I don't think we'd still have that brand in market today.
- [17:19]
Wayne Jasper
It's almost like differentiation makes being distinct easier. Because if you have a brand that's a commodity, I think when you're looking at, all right, how do I stand out? You end up going towards like the color, the jingle, your logo, a character, which are all great things. But like, for us, we have an all inclusive model. And that I think helps us be distinct because it's truly different. But then we also need other things that are distinct about us because another agency might start to do the same thing. Like there's nothing preventing someone from, like ripping off the model. So then it really matters that we do have a unique Color, a logo, a jingle, these unique, distinctive assets. But yeah, definitely, Rob, with the Hurricane, starting off with a product that is truly differentiated, I feel like that made distinctiveness a little easier because you're starting from something that is more unique.
- [18:10]
Rob DeMars
Absolutely.
- [18:11]
Wayne Jasper
Well, speaking of real world examples like the Hurricane, let's talk through some more. I was wondering if we all could bring forward a brand that we think does a really great job at being distinct in their category versus someone who we think is more differentiated, and then maybe maybe a little combination of both. So, Ange, you want to get us started?
- [18:30]
Angela Voss
Yeah. Yeah. This was fun. You actually, it was. Either you or Rob already mentioned the one that I was going to bring to the table. So I am going to come up with a new one. I am going to say distinct. I'm going to go with Old Spice. I mean, how differentiated can you be in the cologne category? I don't know, maybe wildly different smells, but definitely distinct in terms of their marketing and getting into the minds of the consumers. Differentiated. I actually went with Peloton, especially early in their days. You know, the at home fitness category grew so much during COVID and there's a lot of options now, but if you think about their marketing, their logo, we all know it. They've put a lot of money behind growing that brand awareness. But not particularly distinctive, I wouldn't say. And then for both, I actually went with Ikea, I think a pretty different look in the furniture and home category space, and also just very distinct in terms of their offering. And so that's. Those are the three.
- [19:37]
Rob DeMars
I went with good ones, really good ones for distinctive. And I think a lot about this one. I don't know why, but I picked Zoom because I look at that category especially, you know, that really emerged during COVID But there was just so much of this sea of sameness and kind of intimidation by introducing video conferencing to the masses. And they just came in with the Zoom and this approachable blue color that we all know and love every morning when we jump on there. And I think they've just continued to double down on that and really be the video conferencing for the rest of us, I guess, to kind of steal from Apple. So I think they did a really good job of being distinctive just in terms of their overall feel and the way that they've talked about themselves in terms of differentiated. Boy, there are times when I've been such a huge fan of this company and then now I can't stand them. But as cropped rocks, I think they are a truly differentiated sandal. They're light, they're incredibly comfortable, and depending upon the decade, they're really ugly.
- [20:51]
Angela Voss
I think they've always been really ugly.
- [20:53]
Rob DeMars
But at one point they were really kind of cool looking. But they're definitely, definitely differentiated. And then the combo, I'm gonna go with Ben and Jerry's. They have really created a distinctive brand, an activism brand when nobody was doing activism. And also, you know, differentiation when it comes to their packaging and their naming conventions and their flavorings. So do Ben and Jerry's. For. For hitting the combo.
- [21:23]
Wayne Jasper
Even the way they, like scoop and mix, your ice cream is differentiated at Ben and Jerry's. Those are great ones.
- [21:29]
Angela Voss
Yeah.
- [21:30]
Wayne Jasper
For mine, it's funny, I thought it was a lot easier to come up with a distinct brand than someone who's really differentiated, because it seems like all of our differentiated brands, something they all have in common, and I'll get to mine in a second, is that they have been ripped off extensively since they were truly differentiated, which kind of goes back to why you got to be distinct. But one of my favorite examples of a distinct brand is Pringles, because the Pringles chip itself is a pretty common type of chip. And I love a Pringle, but it tastes pretty similar to other chips. But there's so much about their brand that's distinct. They've got Mr. Pringle. He's iconic. We saw that in the super bowl with, like, the flying mustaches. You just. I mean, just a mustache you could associate with with Pringles. The shape of the can, it's obviously iconic. They have those funny spots where your hand gets stuck, like, stuck in the Pringles can. The shape of the chip. I found a funny photo of just like the. The geometry basically, of creating the Pringles chips, how they're perfectly just set into the Pringles can. Yeah, there's a lot of other things about out there. Brand. Even like the Pringles making the duck face with a Pringle. Like, who hasn't done that right. In their life? And that's very distinct. Even though the product itself is sort of a generic. Generic.
- [22:40]
Rob DeMars
Well, it's scientifically amazing that they've basically created potato parchment. Right. They've just. I mean, they've mushed it into a chip, you know, so I'd say that's pretty distinctive.
- [22:52]
Angela Voss
Yeah, it's like paper mache with potatoes.
- [22:56]
Wayne Jasper
And then differentiated. Like I said, this is a brand that was very differentiated. I chose Casper and a first bed in the box. Totally New model, new way to get a mattress. Now, that category is so crowded. I think that we've seen just in the business performance of these different brands that being distinctive is so, so important. And physical availability. I know Casper went into stores, but, yeah, that seems like, you know, being differentiated was a start for them, but now we're trying to make more distinct brands in that category and then both. I chose Trader Joe's because I think they're a grocery chain that stayed very differentiated. Like, you just go into a Trader Joe's. The way that they source their inventory, just the layout of the store is very different. But also they're distinct. Like, they're wearing the Hawaiian shirts, their logo, their bags. There are certain, like, types of products. So I think that one does a good job of being both.
- [23:52]
Angela Voss
That's a great example of how distinction lives throughout the entire culture of Trader Joe's. I mean, I think that's something that's really important in distinction, is how does it go beyond marketing and show up in your consumer experience and even things like the bags, you know.
- [24:11]
Wayne Jasper
All right, well, let's wrap up with something fun. Rob, you can go first with this one. What do you think is the most differentiated thing about you? So something that sets you apart in a meaningful way versus the most distinct thing about you? So that'd be something instantly recognizable as Rob.
- [24:27]
Rob DeMars
Yeah, you know, I think differentiating. I like me some magic tricks, and so, you know, I think that is a differentiating power. I'm not gonna say I'm great at doing magic tricks, but I do like to do magic tricks. I think that's not a lot of people like to do magic tricks or most people are annoyed by people who do magic tricks. So I'd say that's differentiating and distinctive. You know, when I travel, I've been told that I have a distinctive accent, and, you know, I don't really know what they're talking about. You know, I'm just from Minnesota. Don't we all. Don't we all talk like this?
- [24:58]
Angela Voss
How the fact that you can down, like, 25 White Castle burgers didn't come up in here somewhere is, like, shocking to me. I thought for sure that was going to be your differentiation.
- [25:09]
Rob DeMars
I don't like to brag.
- [25:10]
Angela Voss
Yeah, I get it.
- [25:12]
Wayne Jasper
I'll say the magic thing is definitely.
- [25:15]
Angela Voss
Yeah.
- [25:15]
Wayne Jasper
Trademark Rob.
- [25:16]
Angela Voss
Yes.
- [25:17]
Wayne Jasper
There is no spot that he doesn't think it's appropriate to do a magic drag to entertain.
- [25:21]
Rob DeMars
Hey, there's always room for jello, and there's always time for magic. Right.
- [25:24]
Angela Voss
Yes. Right.
- [25:26]
Wayne Jasper
All right, Ang, what about you?
- [25:28]
Angela Voss
For differentiation, I'm gonna have to go with the 7:30. Bedtime is highly differentiated.
- [25:36]
Wayne Jasper
I love a 7:30.
- [25:38]
Angela Voss
Really, really fond.
- [25:40]
Rob DeMars
You know what's only better than 7:30 is 7:7.
- [25:43]
Wayne Jasper
Oh, my gosh.
- [25:44]
Angela Voss
I know. I've got kids that are cramping my 7:30 bedtime style, but when possible, that's the best spot to be at 7:30 and then distinctive. I actually wondered, Elena, if you and I are going to end up with the same one. But yeah, probably the height. Gonna have to go with the height. I'm six two and a half. We're gonna round up to six three if we're talking distinction.
- [26:06]
Wayne Jasper
Yeah. See it. I chose the same one and I was like, angel's gonna pick this and Andrew's actually taller than me. I'm six feet tall. Can I really take it? But that's.
- [26:13]
Angela Voss
I think you can take it.
- [26:14]
Wayne Jasper
I think it is like just being a woman six feet or up.
- [26:17]
Angela Voss
Yeah.
- [26:18]
Wayne Jasper
That's kind of like the first thing people comment on. And then I'm. Ang, it's probably nicer for you. They ask you, did you play basketball? You get to say yes. I don't even get to say that.
- [26:27]
Rob DeMars
Right.
- [26:27]
Wayne Jasper
I don't have anything.
- [26:28]
Angela Voss
I did see both differentiated and distinct. Yeah.
- [26:31]
Rob DeMars
Well, and I'm 4 foot 8, so I guess I never really.
- [26:34]
Angela Voss
That's why we do the podcast remotely.
- [26:37]
Wayne Jasper
Right. But no, I was gonna say by differentiated is probably like my background in riding horses and.
- [26:42]
Angela Voss
Yeah.
- [26:43]
Wayne Jasper
Because, yeah. You wouldn't guess by my height that I did a sport where it doesn't matter too much how tall you are, but I think it's kind of differentiated.
- [26:50]
Rob DeMars
How's that true, though? Aren't our horse jockeys. They're all little folk.
- [26:53]
Wayne Jasper
It depends on the sport. Yes, but horse racing, I would never be able to. You gotta be like £50 almost to do horse racing. But I'm glad we did this episode. I've been wanting to do it for a while. It's a fun debate. I think we had some good takeaways about. Hey, we're not saying you have to pick one or the other, but feels like without distinctiveness, your chance of long term growth and success is going to be threatened. And one thing I'd say to listeners is this might be a good chance to look at your brand and look at your category and ask yourself, are you truly distinct? Because we did that a while ago for marketing architects, and it was some rude awakenings. I'd say you're like, oh, no, we're not actually as distinct as we thought. And we had to make some choices. Like, we've been consistent with this stuff, but it's being used a lot in the category and ended up taking some bigger swings to really stand out. So that could be one good takeaway from this episode is take a hard look at your brand and see are we distinct? And if we're not, is there anything we could do to get there?
- [27:47]
Angela Voss
Great advice. Thanks, Elena.
- [27:49]
Rob DeMars
Have a distinctive day.
- [27:51]
Wayne Jasper
That's it for this episode of the Marketing Architects. We'd like to thank Taylor De Los Reyes for producing the show. You can connect with us on LinkedIn. And if you like the podcast, please leave us a review. Now go forth and build Great marketing. Oh, that's a terrible sound.
- [28:10]
Angela Voss
What was that?
- [28:11]
Rob DeMars
That was the arm that my mic is on. I was adjusting my microphone away from my face.
- [28:18]
Angela Voss
Some WD40 on that thing.
- [28:19]
Rob DeMars
Yeah, it's like the Tin man oil.
- [28:24]
Wayne Jasper
Yeah. Marketing Architects.