The Marketing Order of Operations (MOO)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Marketing Architects

Episode: The Marketing Order of Operations (MOO)
Date: March 10, 2026
Hosts: Elena Jasper (B), Angela Voss (A), Rob DeMars (C)

---

Episode Overview

This episode introduces the "Marketing Order of Operations" (MOO), a structured framework designed to help marketers prioritize actions that drive revenue and growth, grounded in academic research from marketing, psychology, and economics. Drawing inspiration from personal finance systems, the hosts outline a seven-step process for building effective and accountable marketing programs, with practical advice and banter throughout.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction: Why Order of Operations?

• Origin: The framework is inspired by the Money Guy Show's "Financial Order of Operations" (FOO), which answers, “What should you do with your next dollar?” (00:56)
• Purpose: The MOO aims to provide clarity on marketing priorities, especially amidst the chaos and complexity marketers face.

  “The power of the FOO isn’t that it tells you to do everything at once, but brings clarity to the chaos by showing you what matters first.” — Elena (01:00)

---

2. Research Foundation: Growth Drivers for Small Brands

• Study Summary: Referencing Byron Sharp’s “Tiny Brands, Big Challenges” research, the hosts debunk the myth that small brands grow via loyalty; instead, they grow via penetration.

  “69% of tiny brands actually have lower loyalty than expected, not higher... Growing brands increase penetration by 135% compared to just 26% growth from purchase frequency.” — Elena (03:23)

• Key Takeaway: Even the smallest brands need broad reach; niche loyalty is not a path to sustainable growth.

---

3. The 7-Step Marketing Order of Operations (MOO)

Step 1: Define the Competitive Playing Field (04:40)

• Insight: Move away from “ideal customer” Personas; focus on category buyers and situations that drive purchase.

  “Growth comes from being relevant to people who buy in the category occasionally or not yet at all.” — Angela (05:01)

• Example: Snickers’ “You’re not you when you’re hungry” opened category entry points beyond traditional use cases.

Step 2: Build Distinctive Brand Assets (06:56)

• Process: Audit and leverage existing “smashable” brand assets, or invent new ones (Martin Lindstrom’s concept).
• Examples: T-Mobile’s magenta color — “I could walk by a house painted magenta, and I’d go, they look like T-Mobile. That’s amazing, right?” — Rob (08:01)
• Tip: Recognizability is more important than perfection; ownability matters most.

Step 3: Develop Creative That Builds Memory (10:52)

• Guideline: Creatives must consistently deploy and reinforce distinctive assets to build long-term memory structures.

  “You spend the time to create distinctive assets, then use them in your ads.... It’s low-hanging fruit.” — Rob (10:52)

• Best Practice: Ensure creative assets are used across all channels for synergy and recognition.

Step 4: Choose Channels for Short and Long Term (12:55)

• Advice: Start with digital to identify friction and validate the offer, but quickly expand to broad-reach channels that build mental availability.

  “Performance channels are mostly harvesting existing demand versus expanding upon it.” — Angela (13:47)

• Pitfall: Don’t get “addicted” to short-term, measurable channels; invest in memory-building media for durable growth.

Step 5: Measure What Matches the Objective (15:08)

• Principle: Align measurement with marketing objectives. Demand-creation results require layered measurement and directional confidence, not just last-click data.

  “Long-term demand creation doesn’t show up cleanly in last-click dashboards... Measurement has to be layered.” — Angela (15:36)

• Tools: Use a combination of conversion rates, market signals (reach, penetration, share of search), and incrementality tests.

Step 6: Stay Consistent Long Enough (16:53)

• Metaphor: Treat brand assets like a “face tattoo”—unchangeable and deeply committed.

  “You’re making a biological contract with your customer’s memory.” — Rob (17:37)

• Common Mistake: Brands fail by abandoning strategies too soon; consistency enables brand assets to yield compound results.

Step 7: Communicate Results Internally (19:23)

• Goal: Translate data into business language and stories for organizational buy-in.

  “We need to be able to translate data into: here’s what we’ve invested, here’s what’s changed in the market, and how that connects to revenue, profit, share now versus five years from now.” — Angela (19:48)

• Discussion: Importance of disciplined measurement frameworks vs ad hoc approaches for credibility and actionability.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Smashable Brand Assets:

  “If you don’t have [distinctive assets], invent them.... T-Mobile did and chose one of the ugliest colors, magenta for their brand.” — Rob (08:02)

• On Consistency:

  “McDonald’s does not change the font of their M to better align with their current campaign… There are things that are just non-negotiable.” — Rob (17:45)

• On Internal Communication:

  “Speak the language of the business, not just marketing. We don’t care about impressions and CPMs. We care about growth, about risk, about return.” — Angela (19:48)

• On Channel Strategy:

  “Digital creates a bit of a doom loop in terms of that target customer… we start to see that works, then that’s all we want to target, versus expanding out.” — Angela (14:28)

• Face Tattoo Metaphor:

  “You need to treat your brand assets like a face tattoo… You can’t change that just because you have a different T-shirt on today.” — Rob (17:37)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:56 — Explaining the “order of operations” approach (money and marketing parallels)
• 03:23 — Research insight: Tiny brand growth is about penetration, not loyalty
• 04:40 — Step 1: Defining the competitive field and audience
• 06:56 — Step 2: Building distinctive brand assets (T-Mobile color example)
• 10:52 — Step 3: Embedding assets into creative for memory-building
• 12:55 — Step 4: Channel strategy (digital first, but don’t get stuck)
• 15:08 — Step 5: Measurement that matches marketing intent
• 16:53 — Step 6: The power of consistency (“face tattoo” moment)
• 19:23 — Step 7: Communicating results and driving internal alignment

---

Closing/Personal Segment: Hosts’ Own Orders of Operations

• Hosts share their own routines for an effective day:
  • Rest, Perspective, Priorities (Angela, 23:35)
  • “Empty my brain and put it somewhere else”—David Allen’s Getting Things Done (Rob, 24:13)
  • Exercise and a good breakfast (quiche) (Elena, 25:21)
• Fun banter on breakfast habits and the idea of MOO tattoos or T-shirts.

---

Bottom Line

The "Marketing Order of Operations" offers a research-backed, practical path for any brand (large or small) to follow for sustained marketing effectiveness. It emphasizes broad audience reach, the essential role of brand assets, the importance of layered measurement, and—above all—discipline and persistence over flash-in-the-pan tactics.

Memorable Sign-off:

“Go forth and build great marketing.” — Elena (25:54)

---

Listen if you want:
A straight-talking, well-researched breakdown of what should come first in your marketing strategy, why patience and discipline matter, and how even the ugliest color can become a billion-dollar brand asset.

Transcript

[A]

I actually do think that brands should start with digital channels first. Not because that's where growth comes from, but you do need to work out the friction, fix the plumbing if you need to before you proverbially turn on the water.

[B]

Marketing Architects. Hello and welcome to the Marketing Architects, a research first podcast dedicated to answering your toughest marketing questions. I'm Elena Jasper. I run the marketing team here at Marketing Architects, and I'm joined by my co host, Angela Voss, the CEO of Marketing Architects, and Rob DeMars, the chief product architect at Misfits and Machines.

[C]

Hello.

[B]

Hi, guys. We're back with our thoughts on some recent marketing news. Always trying to root our opinions in data research and what drives business results. Today, we're talking about our own marketing order of operations, which we're calling the moo. This is inspired by the Money Guy Show's financial order of operations, or the FOO is what they call it. And we're going to break down step by step what brands should prioritize if they want to get their marketing effectiveness house in order to. So I'm gonna kick off.

[C]

Does that make you the chief MOO officer?

[B]

It must. No. I love it. I love the moo. It's so funny. I'm gonna start with some research like we always do. Today I have two. One is just a quick explanation of what this episode is about, which is the Money Guys framework, the financial order of operations. If you haven't heard about it, they call it the Foo. And it's the step by step system designed to answer a simple question, which is what should you do with your next dollar? Simple, but can be overwhelming. And that was inspired by. By the idea that math has this order of operations. And so the FOO lays out a clear priority sequence from covering your basic risks and paying off high interest debt to investing, building wealth and optimizing later decisions. So the power of the FOO isn't that it tells you what to do and it tells you to do everything at once, but it brings some clarity to the chaos by showing you what matters first, what should get done first, no matter what stage of life you're in. All right, so I was really excited about this idea. My husband is a big fan of the Money Guy show and he has me listen to some of the episodes and. But I was curious. And Rob, are you familiar at all with the Money Guy Show? Have you heard of it? And have you heard of the Foo?

[A]

I know of the Money Guy, but I've been more of a Dave Ramsey follower, so I needed to do a little Research on the food Dave as seven baby steps. So like something similar, but they're not the same.

[C]

Yeah, I, I was in on Dave Ramsey. I had no idea what the foo was or the moo. So I'm really excited to. To. To moo with the foo.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

You're going to be mooing by the end of this.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

You're going to be full on moo.

[B]

Oh, gosh. I think the concept is probably the same as the Dave Ramsey stuff, but yeah, Money guy show maybe a little bit less known. But yeah, if you're familiar with Dave Ramsey and how he talks about getting your marketing so your financial house in order, it's probably pretty similar. So that fu. It's inspiration for this episode. But before we get into the moo, I had one piece of research I wanted to cover because I think when we talk about marketing effectiveness and marketing effectiveness principles, sometimes the reaction we get is, well, those principles are great, but they don't apply to me because I don't work at a giant brand. And there is now research to debunk this in the form of a study from Byron Sharp, Alicia Barker Trous, Stephen Dunn, Charles Graham and Armando Maria Corsi titled Tiny Brands Big Challenges the limits of loyalty and the role of penetration in driving growth. They define tiny brands as brands with less than 1% market share. And they looked at more than 400 brands across five years. And what they found was 69% of tiny brands actually have lower loyalty than expected, not higher. Which directly challenges the idea that small brands grow by cultivating a tight loyal niche. When tiny brands do grow, it's almost entirely driven by penetration. Growing brands increase penetration by 135% compared to just 26% growth from purchase frequency, more than a 5x difference. And the stakes are high. 38% of tiny brands disappeared entirely over five years, while only 6% managed to hold a stable share. So the takeaway is even the smallest brands don't grow with loyalty first strategies. They grow by getting more buyers, just like Vic brands do. So, Ang, was there anything about that tiny brands research that surprised you or is this sort of what you were expecting to be?

[A]

This is exactly what I would have expected, I think, and what I think a lot of marketers either don't know or hear, they like this idea of growth through this niche loyalty. It sounds great, but it's just not how markets work. Most brands don't fail because customers leave. They fail because not not enough customers ever arrive. And penetration's hard work just is.

[C]

Seth Goden called and he wants to arm wrestle you guys. It's pretty contrarian to kind of the tribe. What would you call that? Tribe belief system, tribe mentality or something? Pride mentality. Yes.

[B]

Yeah, agreed. Because that's the. A big argument you see a lot when you talk about marketing effectiveness is this doesn't apply to me because my brand isn't Coca Cola. But I'm excited that they released that, that research and that can combat that. I wanted to cover that because I think when you, when we talk through the moo, we're doing this from a lens of marketing effectiveness. What's. If you had one marketing dollar, where should you invest it next? And I don't want people to think, hey, this doesn't apply to me because I don't work at a giant brand. This should be able to apply to any marketer. So we have a seven step moo that works from how do you go from setting up your marketing effectiveness to becoming a successful category leader? And the first step in our marketing order of operations is defining the competitive playing field. No surprise. This isn't probably going to be about narrow targeting or Personas. It's about being clear on who actually buys in our category, who influences those buying decisions and which competitors are we really up against. So if you get this first step wrong, everything else downstream can be constrained. So Ange, for step one, how do you think brands should think about defining their audience and competitive set when they're really trying to grow?

[A]

Yeah, so I think the first shift is just moving away from thinking about our quote unquote ideal customer and starting to think a lot more about the category buyers in the space. Again, growth comes from being relevant to the people who buy in the category occasionally or inconsistently or not yet at all. So we start by asking who actually buys in this category in what situations and how often. And then who are we competing with in their head at that moment? And that might be a competitor. It might also not be a competitor. I'm bringing up an example in a second because your competitors aren't just the brands on a PowerPoint slide. They're what whatever option is easiest to remember, easiest to buy when that moment shows up. I think about a brand like Snickers where you would go, what comes to mind when I think about a sweet treat or when I'm going to have dessert versus they identify the opportunity to go beyond that. Snickers satisfy you're not you when you're hungry. This just opens up a whole plethora of category entry points. And ways that we can think about ideal customer far beyond what that niche or kind of hyper target audience might look like.

[B]

Yeah, agreed. I love that campaign. It's a great example of going beyond just those narrow Personas. I've seen more and more people talking about that. How, like, when I first started marketing, that's sort of where you start, too. When you start to learn, which I do, they always start with a Persona. And it seems like people are starting to want to stretch, stretch beyond that. All right, the second step of the moo, build distinctive brand assets. So once we know who we're trying to reach, the next step is making sure people can actually recognize your brand. Distinctive brand assets are those cues that allow buyers to quickly identify your brand and then link it to your category. Because before we persuade or try to perform, our brand needs to be recognizable. So, Rob, how should a brand go about the second step of choosing and committing to distinctive brand assets?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, definitely audit what you already have to see what could be smashable. And, you know, smashable is a great term that was coined by Martin Lindstrom. He authored the term smashable branding. When looking at the Coke bottle and how you can smash a Coke bottle against the ground, but you still can recognize that it's a Coke bottle. That's a great asset that you can have. So how are you looking through the things that are important to your brand today and recognize things that you could leverage in your communication? And if you don't have any, then you invent them. Because we are in marketing, we can, you know, put on our inventive hats and do things like T Mobile did and choose. They chose one of the ugliest colors, magenta for their brand.

[B]

I don't know if I agree with God.

[C]

It makes me want to throw up in my mouth every time I walk by their store. But I am a T Mobile customer, and there is no way that I will mistake their storefront or their brand from any other of the competitors. That is an incredible smashable brand. I could walk by a house that is the painted magenta, and I would go, they look like T Mobile. That's amazing, right? So how do you look at what you have or what you need to create? This doesn't just have to be obviously color. This is jingles, characters, audio, mnemonics. There's so many elements to play with. So how do you assess what you maybe currently have? And you don't even realize that you have, because that's very common when you're used to your brand and Go. What can we leverage out there? Or get busy inventing?

[A]

It's so hard to own a color. Like, God, they really did a good job of that.

[B]

They did.

[C]

They absolutely owned it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And if it was a beautiful color, you wouldn't notice it. So the fact that they chose something absolutely revolting works well for them.

[A]

It's not revolting.

[B]

Yeah. I like that color personally, but, yeah,

[C]

paint your house that color.

[B]

No, I would not.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I would not. I was trying to think of other brands that have done a good job with color, and it's hard. It's hard because a lot of them. You think. I know we did this before on the podcast, we did a game where I set a color and I asked you to name the brand. I don't think either of you got.

[A]

Ever got.

[C]

Let's do one yellow McDonald's. Oh, that's good. I wasn't thinking. I think it a little.

[A]

Okay. That's what we're proving the point. It's hard. It is, yeah.

[B]

Really difficult. But, yeah, I love. We go through this process with clients at Marketing Architects, where we look at their distinctive brand assets. And one of my favorite parts of that is mapping the category, because you get to start to see, like, where's the opportunity? Where's the white space? And, yeah, I'm guessing if you're a B2B brand like us going through. And when we went through this exercise, we used to have a navy blue color, and that was one of the first things. We're like, oh, no, that's gotta go. Because then everybody is. Is navy blue. And, yeah, that's a fun exercise to go through. All right. The third step of the MOO is develop creative that builds memory. Now that we have our distinctive assets, we need some creative. And it shouldn't just be about driving action. It's also about building memory. So we want to make sure that our creative consistently links our brand to buying situations in ways that are easy to process and remember, especially for those light buyers of ours. So, Rob, what are some creative best practices brands should keep in mind if they're starting from scratch but trying to build effective creative?

[C]

Okay, this one's going to seem so obvious that I'm almost embarrassed to say it. You spend the time to create distinctive assets, then use them in your ads. And I think that we oftentimes forget as marketers because we're like, oh, we're busy creating our campaigns. And we're like, well, what about the colors that we've been choosing? What about the fonts that we've been using in all of our communication. What about our taglines? All of these amazing things we, we don't use in some of our most visible channels like television. So just making sure you're auditing yourself and auditing your agency to make sure you're actually leveraging the things that you've spent so much time and energy and boardroom time to nail down, use them. It's low hanging fruit to help build those memory structures. And then obviously, you know, the next thing is making sure that you're creating ideas that have likes and you know, you're both using the assets to create memory structures, but you're also using storylines and ideas and concepts in your message strategies that complement each other. So your, your television ads are in sync with your, your social and radio and everything else.

[B]

Great advice. It's, it is an active effort to make sure your distinctive assets are in all your advertising. Just like speaking from our team, we have to be really careful whenever we're creating something. How do you make sure that they're in there? And you're right, Robin, I think that there is research on how long it takes for a distinctive asset to be recognized with the brand. And it's years. Like, you need to consistently make sure that it's there and it's with your logo and there are some kind of guidelines to that. But you're right, a lot of brands, like, if you create a character and you're not willing to put it in your advertising, you probably shouldn't have it 100%. All right, we are at the fourth step of the MOO, which is choose channels for the short and the long. And this step is all about picking channels that allow our creative to reach as many category buyers as possible, often enough to build mental availability over time, while also driving the short term impact that businesses need to thrive. So, Ange, how should a brand prioritize their investments in channels that drive both the short and the long?

[A]

Yeah, I actually do think that brands should start with digital channels first. Not because that's where growth comes from, but you do need to work out the friction just to make sure your customer journey functions to, to validate that your offer works. Fix the plumbing if you need to before you proverbially turn on the water. And digital is really good at helping you diagnose those problems. It's very precise, it tells you where things break. But once you've got journey in place and you feel confident about it, you can't stay there. And that's, I think, often where Brands get stuck is they get addicted to short term activation because it feels really measurable and it feels really controllable. The problem is performance channels are mostly harvesting existing demand versus expanding upon it. So after you've worked out that friction, the priority has to shift to reach based channels that build memory, create new demand. That's what drives long term growth. That can be tv, it can be ctv, it can be radio, it can be built board. There's a lot of options actually. But if you don't make that shift, you end up fighting over that same small pool of buyers and your growth is going to stall out.

[B]

I agree with you that it's probably not good advice for every new brand to just jump onto television. But I think it's also important to make sure that you're like planting the seeds for what we're going to do later on. Because I think it's also hard when people within the company like the board and the CEO and they're used to seeing these immediate returns for marketing or they're used to this type of measurement. It's probably hard to make a shift. I think sometimes we see that they want to hold channels accountable to the same metrics. So probably start planting seeds like this is what we're going to be doing.

[A]

I also think that digital creates a bit of a doom loop in terms of that target customer because you find that there is a ideal customer. Of course, right? My ideal is women 34 years old that have two kids or whatever and live in suburban areas. Okay, fine, but we're not going to grow that way. But when we we start to see that that works, then we're like that's what I want to target and versus expanding out and finding those opportunities.

[B]

So if you followed the MOO and you defined the audience the way we talked about earlier, then you should be in a better spot by the time you get to the four step. See, the MOO is working.

[C]

Follow the moo. I'm waiting for the T shirt.

[B]

It's completely made up but it is working so far. Okay, now let's move on to the fifth step. It is measure what matches the objective. So your measurement has to match the goal. If the objective is long term growth, then measurement needs to reflect that, focusing on reach momentum rather than that short term precision that can sometimes distort decision making. So we got into this a little bit in the fourth step of the move. But Ange, what does a measurement system look like for a brand that's really committed to marketing effectiveness?

[A]

Yeah, I think we have to get really honest and have hard conversations about what can be measured well and what can't, what can be measured precisely and what can't. And long term demand creation doesn't show up cleanly in last click dashboards, which is that digital world. Right. So for a brand committed to growth, measurement has to be layered. We talk about multiple models. You need short term indicators, which can be conversion rates, it can be pipeline sales response, visits, etc. To make sure the system is working. But you also need more market level signals that tell you whether you're actually expanding that demand. That's reach penetration could be brand momentum, share of search, controlled tests that allow you to see incrementality. And that usually means coming up with things like geotests looking at, mmm, brand tracking, sales analysis instead of just pretending kind of one tool has all the answers. So we would of course love perfect attribution as marketers, but that's just not possible. What we're really trying to, or should be trying to strive for is directional confidence. Do we know we're building demand? Do we know we're translating it into revenue? And do we think it is repeatable and scalable for the brand growth that we're looking for?

[B]

We talk a lot about multiple models on this show, but that feels like a really important part for your measurement system. All right, so now we've got our audience in mind, our competitive set, we got our distinctive brand assets, we have our creative. We've decided the channels we're going to invest in and how we're going to balance that over time. We've got our measurement. We're now at our sixth step of the moo, which is stay consistent long enough for things to work. A lot of marketing strategies fail, not because they're wrong, but because they're abandoned too early. So this six step of the MOO is about consistency, sticking with the same assets, the same creative approach. Investment long enough for memory to complete pound and results to show up. So, Rob, why is consistency so important for growth? And why, oh, why is it so hard for brands to maintain it?

[C]

You need to treat your brand assets like a face tattoo. You know you are making a biological contract with your customer's memory, right? So you can't change that just because you have a different T shirt on today, right? Like you are in, you are committed to. There's a reason why magenta is immediately coming to our mind. It's everywhere. They stuck with it. They don't change the color palette because it's Christmas, right? It's the holidays, they don't do that. So McDonald's does not change the font of their M to better align with their current creative campaign. There are things that are just non negotiable and you have to stick with them because you've invested with them. You've invested the cash, the dollars, the sweat, the tears. So sticking with them just allows you to benefit from the compound interest all that stuff generates. I mean, you can just talk to Ange. Ange, you can't tell from this, this podcast because you're probably listening, but she's got a face tattoo. She's really committed to do that.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I heart Rob. Always have. Right across my throat.

[B]

Yeah, Rob, you made me think of an idea which is not in a tattoo, but if your marketing team goes to a rebrand, maybe you should include as a part of that, like some sort of structure or something that's hard to change. Like maybe that'll protect the branding in the future.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like put. Put together a statue or, I don't know, change a big sign, the wet

[C]

cement in front of the corporate office. Make sure you, you know, you write the tagline in there.

[B]

Yeah, Something. Yeah. Or ask your CMO to get a tattoo of it. Then you'll see how strong.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

About that distinctive asset. All right, we are now at the final step of the moo, if you can believe it, which is communicate results. So even if marketing is working, it can fall apart internally if results aren't explained clearly. So this step is about translating data into stories that help everybody understand what's working, why is it working, and why do we need to stay the course? So, Angie, what do you think good communication of marketing results looks like inside an organization?

[A]

Marketing has an incredible opportunity to lead the growth conversation for a brand. How do brands grow? That's your job. There's a level of education that's necessary to transfer to broader executive members of the organization. And I think speaking about growth is an earned right. And you earn that right by speaking the language of the business, not just the language of marketing. Fine, speak the language of marketing to your own team. But most dashboards are built for marketers. You know, we don't care about impressions and CPMs. We care about growth. We care about risk, we care about return. We do need to show data, but we need to be able to translate it into, here's what we've invested, here's what change in the market. Here's how that connects to revenue profit share now versus five years from now. Based on the decisions we're looking to make. And here's why. Stopping would undermine the progress that we've built.

[B]

And one thing that made me think of is, do you think this is sort of a random question, but I feel like when talking to successful marketing teams, there's, like, two sides of, like, setting up results that I see sometimes, which is one side is, this is always how we do it. Like, we always do geo tests, and this is the system it's proven to work. So this is what we do, which can be great because you've seen it work, leadership accepts it, and it gives you, like, a structure for adding new channels. Or on the other side, like, you approach each one with a clean slate. What could we do? And I think that can be beneficial because then you could adapt it according to the channel, but also it can be a little bit chaotic. And then what if you don't get the results you need? Do you feel like there's one that's better than the other? Or maybe it's somewhere in the middle? Cause I think the first one can be kind of restrictive at times or maybe slow things down. But do you feel like one side's better than the other? I do.

[A]

I would change restrictive to disciplined. I guess there's a lot that we can go test. The world in terms of what consumers consume is very fragmented. And so I think we talk about multiple models. You could look at that and go, well, I can test this way and I can test that way. And are we losing the lens of incrementality? And I think that's the discipline that ultimately is needed to get to a place where you can make investment decisions based on both short and long. It's easy to make investment decisions based on short. They might not be the right decisions, but every dashboard is going to give you direction on whether or not to continue to invest in it or not. Most of them are going to tell you to continue to invest. So because of the complication in terms of measurement, we need that discipline. You're right. It might slow potentially growth, but I think we're not setting ourselves up for durable growth if we don't have that discipline.

[B]

Yeah, that's a good point. So maybe, like, be disciplined in your testing, but then when it works, don't be afraid to. To go big on it.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

When it does. All right, well, that's the moo. What do we think of the moo?

[A]

I heart the moo.

[C]

How in are you on the moo, Elena? Are you willing to get the moo tattoo I don't. I mean, that's. That's the true test right there.

[B]

Oh, man. I don't know. I don't know if I'm there yet.

[C]

Little cow. Maybe a little cow.

[B]

You know, like a little cow tattoo.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

I don't know. I wouldn't rule it out. We'll see what the reaction to this episode is if people.

[A]

Maybe we start with a T shirt.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

All right. I like that.

[B]

But I thought it was a fun idea because sometimes you hear about all this stuff, you're like, where in the world do I even start? So hopefully this episode could be helpful.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

If you're prioritizing, like, what do I need to look at first within my organization, it could be. It could be helpful. All right, final wrap up here for fun personal life, order of operations. I'm sure you have that in some way. Like, what are the first few things that need to happen for you before your day actually works?

[A]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I'm going to be shocked if the three of us don't have the first number one that's the same. I want to be wrong on this, but okay, so for me, it's rest, perspective, priorities. Those are my three. If I'm rested, grounded, clear in what matters most, I can handle almost anything.

[C]

Nice. That's good. That's. That's.

[B]

I like.

[C]

That's a tactic.

[B]

You're saying we're similar because all three of us go to bed at like 8:30.

[C]

Well, this is true. I mean, I love me some.

[A]

If sleep isn't everyone's number one on this podcast, I don't know. I don't know us, but that. That would be wrong.

[C]

That is a great baseline, I think, for me, I could literally do a podcast that no one in the planet would ever listen to. On David Allen's Getting Things Done. And his, you know, his number one concept is your mind is for having ideas, not keeping ideas. So for me, you know, when. When I'm. When I'm talking about stage one, how do I move forward? It is emptying my brain and putting it somewhere else, putting all that stuff somewhere else into trust. Like, I have to clean the kitchen before I can do anything else.

[A]

And he has a system for that.

[C]

I have just anytime someone wants to hang out and talk about it, you know, I'm just. I'm all there.

[A]

It's our favorite topic.

[B]

I feel like you've mentioned wanting to do this David Allen Getting Things done episode for a long time. So listeners if anyone wants to hear that, if anyone wants to send me a message on LinkedIn and we'll let Rob do an episode on it.

[A]

We can't be effective marketers without having a clean kitchen, so maybe it fits somehow to the Absolutely.

[C]

Shout out. Getting. Getting things done. David Allen. Absolutely 100% one of our most prized

[B]

listeners to this podcast, David Allen. So me very similar. Definitely need like a good night of sleep. I need to exercise before I do anything else too. Like I exercise every morning or else I'm no fun to be around. And then another thing I was thinking of is just like fueling. Well, I'm a big believer in breakfast. I know some people who skip breakfast. I don't know how they do it, but feel like that helps sets up your day too.

[A]

I was having a what's the go to breakfast?

[B]

I'm very spoiled. My husband Sam makes me a quiche every week, so I get to eat quiche for breakfast. Yes.

[A]

So yummy.

[B]

That's it for this episode of the Marketing Architects. We'd like to thank Taylor de Los Reyes for producing the show. You can connect with us on LinkedIn and if you like the podcast, please leave us a review. Now go forth and build great marketing.

[C]

What kind of quiche?

[B]

Like eggs with green peppers, spinach, bacon, cheese.

[A]

Rob, are you a breakfast guy?

[C]

I eat a Go macro bar every morning with my coffee, if that counts as breakfast. But it's not very, it's not substantial. And then I don't really eat until dinner. It's weird. But if I eat lunch, I get very nappy.

[B]

That's the problem with lunch, is coming back to after lunch can be a little rough. But marketing architects.