The Media Odyssey

Episode Title: The Making of a Hit Podcast
Host(s): Evan Shapiro & Marion Ranchet
Date: April 9, 2026
Guest: Brian Reed (This American Life, Serial, S-Town, Placement Theory)

Episode Overview

This episode explores the evolution and craft of hit documentary podcasts, featuring Brian Reed, a prominent figure behind genre-defining shows like This American Life, Serial, S-Town, and co-founder of the audio production company Placement Theory. Hosts Evan Shapiro and Marion Ranchet dive deep with Reed into the origins of long-form narrative audio, the behind-the-scenes of making culturally pivotal shows, the current challenges facing journalism and podcasting, and the future of the medium in the age of creators and shifting economics. The conversation provides industry insights for podcast aficionados and media professionals alike.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Allure and Power of Documentary Podcasting

• Personal Audio Histories

  • Both hosts and guest share that their gateway to podcasts was through "docu-pods," with Marion noting:

    “I actually started, you know, listening to podcasts thanks to that specific genre... one of the first ones might have been from Serial.” [02:19]

  • Evan describes his history adapting podcasts to TV and his evolution from audio fan to creator.

• Why Documentary Podcasts Stand Out

  • Evan:

    "Documentary podcasts tend to be some of the biggest, most... paradigm shifting types of shows out there." [01:31]

  • Marion identifies the habit-forming power:

    “It really became a daily habit for me...” [02:26]

2. Brian Reed’s Journey: From NPR to Podcast Trailblazer

• Starting Out: "Theater + History = Podcasting"

  • Brian recounts his start at NPR and then This American Life:

    “I was a theater major in college and a history major. And I found that was actually the perfect pairing..." [08:37]

  • Integrating character-driven storytelling with real events defined his documentary style.

• The Early Podcast Era

  • Brian on the culture at This American Life:

    “The spirit... was really special... one of real invention and kind of exploration. You could try things.” [15:35]

3. The Birth of Serial and the Dawn of the Hit Podcast

• How Serial Was Conceived

  • Originated from staff experiments with short-lead documentary formats before Sarah Koenig received the Adnan Syed pitch.

    “Sarah had gotten pitched the story about Adnan Syed... structured as a multi part serial.” [15:10]

  • Staff was initially skeptical:

    “I just remember people not being into it. This sounds really hard. What’s the point? ...But it was the first time we were talking about, let's make another show.” [15:01]

• Expectations and Impact

  • Brian:

    “A few hundred thousand downloads was what was expected...” [17:25]

  • Serial ultimately reached "hundreds of millions of downloads." [17:43]
  • The series had real-world impact:

    "There's no way that he gets out of jail without that podcast happening." – Evan [18:18] "I think probably likely, yeah." – Brian [18:22]

4. S-Town: Reinventing Audio Storytelling

• Development & Creative Rationale

  • S-Town started even before Serial, driven by "a speculative, interesting listener story" [19:02].
  • Innovated by blending true reporting with the form of a novel:

    "We were reading novels and talking about that as a model... to give it the feeling both in the writing, structuring, producing of a novel." [22:51]

  • All episodes dropped at once (a first), titled as "Chapters" [23:14].

• Brian’s Creative Ethos

  "...you have to make something that you want to hear that speaks to you...trust our instinct that we're interested in something that an audience doesn't know they want yet." [24:12]

• Impact and Legacy

  • Episodes now in the "hundreds of millions" of downloads [24:17].
  • S-Town being adapted for Apple TV [25:28].

5. New Frontiers: Placement Theory and Questioning Everything

• Building a New Studio

  “We decided to start Placement Theory to be that new place...give creators equity ownership...” [32:19]

  • Aimed to recreate an environment for "really ambitious" narrative documentary work post-Serial/New York Times buyout.

• Question Everything

  • A podcast turning the journalistic lens onto journalism itself, especially issues of trust and information ecosystems:

    “Question Everything is a show that is rigorous journalism, like I've always done, but kind of turns its lens on journalism itself.” [33:51]

6. The Challenge of Podcast Economics

• The Business Model
  • Multiple revenue streams: public radio partnerships, bespoke sponsorships, listener support/subscriptions.

    "It's hard. We're new. We're figuring it out." [35:56]

  • The mixed funding model leverages the “buffer” of public radio's non-profit ecosystem [36:04].

7. Journalism, Truth, and the Creator Economy

• Survival of Quality Journalism

  • Brian describes the erosion of local journalism, public trust, and persistent attacks on the press:

    "The state of journalism is really rough. The economics are bad, many thousands of local newspapers have gone away..." [39:08]

  • Nevertheless, audiences “want truthful information, but they feel so tired and burned out and overwhelmed and don’t know how to find it.” [41:07]

  • Suggestions for the future: combining infrastructure of journalism with the reach of creators/influencers [43:44]

• Creators vs Influencers

  • Marion distinguishes:

    “For me, the influencers...the business model is essentially someone is paying them to be influential...creators... those are big teams in the background.” [45:21]

  • Potential for partnership between traditional media and creator-led brands [45:37].

8. Audio vs. Video in Podcasting

• Staying Audio-First
  • Brian on resisting the rush to video:

    “With the work we make...you'd be having to make a documentary...it's a different enterprise.” [48:44]

  • Video explored as “discovery play” or bonus, but audience growth remains concentrated in traditional audio [52:02].
  • Low conversion rates from social/video to full podcast listenership, even with massive influencer support [52:32].

9. Stories at the Cutting Edge

• Current Investigations
  • Reed is covering legal cases against social media giants, focusing on platform design’s role in harm:

    "We’ve been tracking Section 230 all year...hundreds of millions of dollars for New Mexico..." [55:00] “It’s the design of the platform.” [56:12]

  • Contextualizing major lawsuits and the changing legal landscape for tech accountability.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Creativity and Audience:

  “The most personal, is the most creative.” – Brian Reed citing Bong Joon-ho/Scorsese [24:12]

• On Journalism’s Crisis:

  “The trust between the public and journalists is incredibly low...the Internet is harder and harder to navigate in terms of knowing what's reliable...” – Brian [39:10]

• On Audio’s Power:

  “Audio specifically is like the most intimate of all of them.” – Brian [48:36]

• On New Models:

  “What if you make an Associated Press out of influencers, and provide support?” – Brian [43:44]

• On Audience Burnout:

  “People are so tired and burned out and overwhelmed and don't know how to find it [truthful info].” – Brian [41:07]

• On Serial’s Impact:

  “There's no way that [Adnan Syed] gets out of jail without that podcast happening.” – Evan [18:18]

• On Podcast Monetization:

  “It's hard. We're new. We're figuring it out.” – Brian [35:56]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------| | 00:39 | Introduction of episode theme and hosts | | 01:31 | Documentary podcasting—why it resonates | | 05:30 | Brian Reed joins—his impact and background | | 06:21 | Defining “documentary audio” | | 07:39 | Brian’s start at NPR and This American Life | | 12:20 | The origin and pitch process behind Serial | | 15:35 | Staff skepticism and greenlighting Serial | | 17:25 | Serial's unexpected explosion and cultural impact | | 19:00 | S-Town’s inception and creative process | | 23:14 | Innovative choices in S-Town: binging, literary approach| | 24:08 | Creative philosophy—serving the story, not the market | | 25:28 | S-Town’s upcoming TV adaptation, creative legacy | | 30:55 | Post-Serial: founding Placement Theory | | 33:51 | “Question Everything” — journalism about journalism | | 35:56 | Economics: sustaining ambitious podcasts | | 38:37 | “Mystery in Marion”—local journalism’s declining state | | 41:07 | Audience needs for truth, burnout, and opportunity | | 43:44 | Creator vs. influencer news, merging models | | 48:36 | Podcasting’s intimacy and the trade-offs of video | | 52:32 | Challenges of promoting podcasts via social media | | 53:23 | Current and future investigative stories (social media) | | 56:12 | Legal nuance of Section 230 and product design | | 56:30 | Closing: appreciation and future invitations |

Conclusion

This episode provides a masterclass in podcasting’s evolution, blending sharp industry insight with the warmth and candor of practitioners who have shaped the audio landscape. Through Brian Reed’s recollections, listeners gain a rare window into the creative and business decisions that led to Serial, S-Town, and the ongoing quest for sustainable, truthful journalism. The discussion underscores the intimacy, flexibility, and creative fulfillment unique to storytelling in audio—and hints at the hard questions media creators must tackle as the podcast world matures.

Recommended for: Podcast fans, media professionals, journalism students, and anyone interested in the intersection of storytelling, media innovation, and social impact.

Favorite podcasts section:

• Evan: "The Rest is Politics" (UK & US versions)
• Marion: "Smartless" for humor, "Totemic" for interviews, "The Daily" for news [58:06]
• Brian’s work: "Serial", "S-Town", and "Question Everything" (Placement Theory/KCRW)

For full context, listen to the episode for storytelling nuance and depth.