Dr. Caroline Leaf (6:21)

An honor and a privilege. I'm one of your biggest fans and really love what you do. Thank you. It's so great to be here. I'm so excited.

Mel Robbins (6:27)

Well, I'm excited to dig into your more than 35 years of research and the tools that you're gonna share with us today that come from being a world renowned psychoneurobiologist. But the way that I wanna start is I would love for you to speak directly to the person who is listening to us right now who feels trapped in negative thoughts, you know, like that their mind is just a complete mess. What would you tell that person who's listening to us right now that feels that way?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (7:02)

So 95% of people, according to research, actually battle with negative thinking. So it's very common. It's much more common than we realize. But people get stuck there because they're drawn to the imbalance that it creates. You can actually, as soon as you're aware of that, you can change it. And some of the typical things that people get stuck with are things like they feel under pressure. That that's such a. I'm so. I feel so pressurized. I just can't do it. Black and white thinking is another huge one. It's this or that. Nothing's ever. Life's a spectrum. Nothing's ever black and white. But it really gets people stuck. Things like, my brain won't shut up. You know, that's something that people will often say to me, how do I switch my brain off? That's a common statement that people make. A couple of others are things like, my past is haunting me. How do I deal with that? It's coming right into it. Haunts. It's there. It's over me all the time.

Mel Robbins (7:47)

I appreciate you sharing what you just shared because I think it's so important that, number one, that the person listening understands that they're not alone in feeling how they feel. And more importantly, number two, that there is something that you can do about it, that it's based in evidence and that based on your clinical research, it's going to work. And so, Dr. Leif, I would love to have you just start by telling the person who's listening what could change about their life or the life of people that they love love, if they really take to heart everything that you're about to teach us today and they apply it themselves.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (8:26)

That's such a good question. And I think the biggest thing that I have found over the nearly 40 years I've been in this field and reached now a lot of people and 25 years of clinical practice, the key thing that is so helpful, and that is that your mind is not your brain. They're not the same thing. And that you can manage your mind. You can actually change your mind and change your brain. You're not stuck. I think that's absolutely key for people.

Mel Robbins (8:53)

Dr. Leith, you just said that the brain is different from the mind. What does that mean?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (8:59)

And that's the key question, because when you get that concept, it changes your life. It brings hope. We have a lot of messaging for about 40 years now. The mind and the brain, the words are used interchangeably as though they're the same thing. So what the truth is, Mel, is that your brain and your body are the physical part of you. This brain does absolutely nothing except what you tell it to do with your mind.

Mel Robbins (9:25)

Okay, now hold on. Let me see if I can understand this, because if you're watching this on YouTube, you can see that she has a little model of a brain. It looks like two chicken cutlets together.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (9:37)

It does.

Mel Robbins (9:38)

And you're basically saying that on its own, that blob right there that we call the brain, the physical structure, does absolutely nothing on its own.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (9:50)

On its own.

Mel Robbins (9:52)

So then what is the mind?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (9:53)

So the mind is the energy force that actually drives the brain and makes it work, which is enabling us to have a conversation and part of memory and remembering what we're saying and so on, because your mind is doing the work. So the easiest way to understand this is that if you die within seconds of your heart stopping under 20 seconds, your brain basically, that's it. And your body disintegrates. So the brain and the body disintegrate. What's the difference between a dead person and an alive person? It's actually your mind. So mind is a big word, and it represents your spirit, your soul, whatever word you want to use. It's that maleness. It's your ability to perceive what I'm saying, to think and feel and choose about that, to love, to have relationships, to the way you see the world, the way you learn knowledge the way you perceive every moment of every day, that's mind. That mind drives your physiology. So the mind makes the brain work. It makes the genetics and the neurohormones and the neurochemistry. It makes the heartbeat. If you didn't have a mind, your heart couldn't beat. It's your mind that's making your heartbeat, that's making your lungs work, that's making you breathe. So it handles your mental aspects, your psychological aspects, it handles your neuro aspects, and it handles your biological. So psychoneuro. Biological. So I'm actually a psychoneurobiologist looking at this relationship, this network that we have. And the interesting thing, Mel, is that the mind is 99% of who you are. It's fundamental. It's the prism through which Life Pro is processed. The brain is just a host. So the mind is taking this conversation and putting a copy of it into the brain, and that then activates the brain to respond chemically and electromagnetically and genetically. And then it wires this conversation as we talking, it's wiring it into the brain. The mind's doing the work. So you, with your mind and your listeners, they're taking my words, which are electromagnetic impulses, taking those into the mind zone. We've got like a zone around us of electromagnetic field. It's a. It's a field of energy. It's exactly the same energy that runs your cell phone. So the thing that makes your cell phone and all elect anything work, that's the lights, the studio lights, et cetera. Everything, everything that works, it's electromagnetics. So. But each of us has our own unique electromagnetic field. So you have yours, I have mine. We all have our own unique ones. So your mind is that thing on a physics level, I know it sounds hard. That's why I say think of a cell phone.

Mel Robbins (12:22)

I actually think it makes a lot of sense, so I want to try to give it back to you.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (12:26)

Yeah, go for it.

Mel Robbins (12:28)

So I completely understand what you're saying, that the brain is the physical thing. Yeah. The mind is the energy force and the programming. And so if you take the example of the cell phone, if the cell phone isn't charged, it's dead.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (12:46)

Exactly.

Mel Robbins (12:47)

Same thing with a human being. And what charges you is the energy of your mind.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (12:51)

Exactly.

Mel Robbins (12:51)

And if a cell phone actually was stripped, right. Of like when you go to reset to factory settings or whatever, you wipe it clear of everything, it doesn't work.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (13:01)

Exactly.

Mel Robbins (13:02)

And so you have to both have the energy to power it, and you also have to have the Programming and the language and all of that, that tells it what to do. Otherwise the thing is dead and useless. And you're saying the same thing about the brain and the mind.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (13:15)

This is useless until you, with your mind, create the program, put the programs in, power it up, charge it, use it. And even when the cell phone dies, it doesn't mean that the mind has died. The mind still goes on. It never stops. That's the thing. The mind just carries on. Wait, what never stops? You are always you. You carry on. So if you think of the mind, it's driving all your psychological stuff and all your physiological stuff. So when you have a. For example, we use EEGs and QEEGs in our. In our neuroscience research, which looks at the energy waves in the brain, looks how the brain. How the brain is responding. That's what we're looking at, is the mind. In the brain, when you have an ekg, they look at your heart. That's the mind in your heart. The fact that your blood is pumping, it's a whole different conception.

Mel Robbins (14:00)

I've never thought about it that way before. I've always. Whenever somebody says the word mind, I think about what's in between my ears.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (14:07)

Exactly.

Mel Robbins (14:08)

But you're basically saying if you wiggle your toes, what's making your toes wiggle is your mind.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (14:12)

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (14:13)

Because your minds are in your toes and your fingertips and everywhere. You feel like a shock. Even when you touch a sweater that's kind of like fuzzy and you get that little shock, like that's your mind helping you experience that.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (14:24)

You got it.

Mel Robbins (14:25)

That's crazy. I've never heard anybody explain it like that. I just think I got it. For the first time.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (14:30)

I love it.

Mel Robbins (14:31)

So I got the difference between the physical versus the energy that powers it. But I've never actually extended that insight of the energy and the programming that is your mind. The life force that drives you is in your entire body. That is crazy.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (14:50)

It's crazy. It's a mind, brain, body network. Three things, and it's a network that works together like the World Wide Web. We have our own unique World wide Web within our mind, brain, body connection. Can I wiggle my toes right now?

Mel Robbins (15:04)

Thinking my mind is in my toes right now. This is so crazy.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (15:06)

Totally. But here's the really amazing thing. As I'm speaking now, as I mentioned, I'm sending out electromagnetics, waves, photons, auditory sound, all this energy, fantastic physics stuff, okay? Gravitational field, all this fancy stuff. So all my words are coming at you and the listeners. Your mind takes that and it's not in your brain yet, but. And it forms it into little clouds, thought clouds. So every word I'm saying is grouping into a little cloud, like raindrops form a cloud. My words are like drops of information forming a cloud. As that's forming, this is happening at 400 billion actions per second and faster. So now we've got this cloud. Now your mind, your brilliant mind, makes a photocopy of that. I mean, it's obviously more sophisticated than a photocopy, but it makes a copy, puts that into the brain, and the brain responds by genetically, neurochemically, electromagnetically, and it wires in a network, and that network looks like a tree. So more drops are added to the cloud. The more branches you grow. So we've got a cloud in the mind, We've got a copy of this is in the brain. And every single cell of your body gets a little mini, teeny weeny version inside every cell of your body. So every single cell of your body is building this conversation that we are having.

Mel Robbins (16:19)

Let me see if I can explain this back to you, okay, because this is crazy. And first of all, as you're listening to Dr. Leif, I just want you to like, wiggle your toes and have this experience of saying to yourself, oh, my gosh, like, that's my mind in my fingertips and my toes. And so, like, you can feel it everywhere. What you just explained, if I'm processing it correctly and I'm grabbing the droplets and turning it into the bush in my mind, is that as you are talking, there are. The language that you are speaking is converted into. Into energy and clouds and patterns that come through the air that in electromagnetic, whatever the heck the word was, but it's electromagnetic. You go to energetic electromagnetic form. And my mind, which is wiggling my fingers and toes, has the ability to grab that electromagnetic field that we would call language. Ideas and words, grab them from you as energy, and then translate it into something that the brain, the physical structure, can now encode and remember. And this is the process of how your mind is taking the electromagnetic signals from all around you and encoding it into the mind so that you can do basically everything, walk around, recognize the environment that you're in, recognize somebody's faces, remember a voice that sounds familiar, everything.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (17:49)

Everything.

Mel Robbins (17:49)

And what's interesting is that other than the programming that is part of the human design that helps you grow and breathe and know how to do the things that the body has to do to keep you alive, your mind is designed to constantly be learning and absorbing new electromagnetic Patterns that it then puts into your mind, which is where like the neuroplasticity that your brain can always change.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (18:24)

You got it, Mel.

Mel Robbins (18:25)

Wow. So I have a question about this. So good, because you're going to teach us. No matter what you've been through, no matter how messy your life is right now, no matter how scrambled your thoughts may be, no matter how stuck you think you are, you can absolutely make your mind bud and sprout completely new thoughts, completely new ways to go through life, and you have the research to prove it. When did you actually realize that this was possible?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (19:01)

I'm 61. I trained back in the 80s, and in the 80s we were told that once the brain was damaged, that's it. This neuroscience lecture was saying, okay, so we, once you've got brain damage, once you've had trauma, that's it. You got to teach your patients to compensate. And I immediately remember putting up my hand. And now this is back in the 80s, I'm a female. It's in science, there's majority males in my class and majority male lecturers. And there was bias and immediately put up my hand. And I said I wasn't trying to be difficult, but I challenged that and said, but we constantly are changing, growing, learning all the stuff that philosophers have spoken about for thousands of years. So therefore that means that our brain must change. Change, because our brain is the host, our brain hosts our mind, and the brain has got to change. So this professor, kind of facetious, he said, well, go do research. I thought, well, let me do that. And I started working with people with traumatic brain injuries and saying, okay, well, if I can help them manage their mind, if I can help them rebuild and change how they thinking, can that change the brain? I took people that had severe traumatic.

Mel Robbins (20:03)

Brain injuries and so give me an example. Like what, like what is a patient that has severe traumatic.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (20:08)

Tell your story. Can I tell you one of my most, most amazing stories that I tell me telling the story now since then, and I have permission to tell it with one of my patients called Lee. And she. I had just started this research and lee was a 16 year old and she had a terrible, her brother had a terrible car accident. She was thrown far from the car and she went into a coma. In the 80s, if you had, if you were in a coma for longer than eight hours, the brain damage was considered irreversible. But these, these parents were, we're not going to accept this is no ways that this is going to be the case. And they said, look, please. And they Begged me. So I said, okay, well, if you prepare to. With me, we're going to work together. And that's what we did. And we worked for eight months now.

Mel Robbins (20:47)

And so you've got a. Their daughter was thrown from a car.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (20:51)

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (20:52)

She's in a coma.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (20:53)

Yeah. She.

Mel Robbins (20:54)

The parents are told after eight hours there's irreversible brain damage.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (20:59)

Exactly.

Mel Robbins (20:59)

And I think. And like, even without being a doctor, it makes sense because you're like, okay, you've been thrown from a car. There's clearly damage, physical damage to the brain and there's nothing that can be done. And now you enter Dr. Relief and you're like, oh, no, no, no. We're going to look at the mind, the thing that's wiggling your hands and your toes and we're going to see if we can actually use the energetic power system.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (21:23)

You got it.

Mel Robbins (21:24)

To reverse the traumatic brain injury.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (21:28)

Yes. So they didn't reach out to me in the coma, they reached out to me when she'd come through the coma and she was sort of functioning, but at a second grade level. This is a 16 year old who's now almost 17, who couldn't. Who can't even function at a second grade level.

Mel Robbins (21:41)

Got it. And it's due to the traumatic brain injury that she experienced.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (21:45)

The car accident. Exactly.

Mel Robbins (21:46)

So enter Dr. Leaf and what happens?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (21:48)

So then I work. I said, okay, we'll try this. We'll work together three days a week, two hours each time. But you're going to have to work in between. I mean, you. This is the key thing, Mel. What I want to say is that I can give you these techniques, I can. You can help anyone within. But at the end of the day, you have to do the work. And we worked through the. I developed the five step process, I developed the theory clinically. And after eight months, not only did this child restore function, she went back to school. Now, she'd missed Most of her 12th grade at this stage and she was an average student before. So getting, you know like season Ds and whatever didn't do very well. She goes back to school, she's got to catch up her most of her 12th grade year. That was her goal. She did it. She finished school with her peer group. She finished with. Not only did she finish, she finished with flying colors. Like, for example, she suddenly became a brilliant mathematician. She was brilliant at math. She went on to get a university degree. Her emotional, cognitive, social, emotional, all of that changed. She had a funny sounding voice because she had damaged her larynx. She couldn't walk properly. So there were physical things, but mentally she restored.

Mel Robbins (22:51)

First of all, it's extraordinarily compelling where you've got somebody with a traumatic brain injury. And using the five steps that you're about to teach us today, the fact that you can help somebody in these severe traumatic cases to use the mind to heal the brain and to change the way that you experience life and to change the functioning of your mind and your body, that is so exciting. And it also gives me hope because I feel like whether you're listening right now and you're struggling with a messy mind, you overthink, you beat yourself up, you're just like, can never kind of focus or you can't let go of worry or rumination, or you have somebody that you love that has concussion damage or that has experienced trauma. I'm excited because if those extreme cases are cases where you have been able to use these five steps to leverage the mind and the power and the energy to change somebody in that situation's experience of life and the way that their brain functions, I think this would work for all of us.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (24:03)

We human. If you're human, you're alive, you have a mind and you need to know how to manage your mind. And this is. You're quite right Mel, you've summarized it so beautifully. It's mind management.

Mel Robbins (24:12)

So Dr. Leaf though, the mind management technique and neuro cycling that you're gonna teach us this five step approach based on your clinical research, you can use it to both better manage stress and burnout and anxiety and depression and you can also use your mind to heal the trauma from violent things that happen from the outside world.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (24:34)

Exact. The one is the healing management process, the other is the managing process. What's really key here is to understand that the levels of mind. And so the reason the question you asked me earlier on is that how does it the same system work for everyone? It sounds like a magic trick. It doesn't sounds too good to be true. So first of all, these years of science behind this, patients that sit in front of me that have been through sexual trauma, they're not going to want to know about a complex scientific formula. Nor is the traumatic brain injured patient, nor is someone who's a rushed mom, who's dad or whatever, who's just come home, I've got to be able to say okay, do this, this, this. So I had to take complex science which took me years to turn it into something very, very simple.

Mel Robbins (25:12)

I want to just translate what you just said though. Because I think I got it. I think I did.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (25:16)

I'm sure you did.

Mel Robbins (25:17)

So, basically, if you are in a mode in your life where the stress feels relentless or your mind feels very, very negative, if you think about how you explain conversation, that again, your mind is powering your brain and your body. Your mind is literally taking the energetic signals from life, and then it brings it into your brain and body. And if your thoughts also start to become negative, I can't handle this, you know, I can't handle the stress. I have no support. I'm never gonna make it through this. Then what happens, you're right. Is that you are creating a negative feedback loop inside your body, brain, inside your cells.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (26:08)

Exactly.

Mel Robbins (26:09)

And it's why you start to feel so heavy. It doesn't change the fact that you have very real stressful things you're dealing with. But because your mind is starting to now focus and repeat negative thoughts, you're creating additional negative programming. And so if that's true, if that's true, it's interesting because on page 45 of your book, you say, everything we do begins with a thought. If we want to change anything in our lives, we first have to change our thinking, our mind. When we know how to change our mind, we rewire neural networks in the brain that then create useful, sustainable, and automatic actions and attitude, good habits that make us happier and healthier. Hence the term mind management. And so the process that you're about to teach us is both recognizing when your mind is absorbing negative energy and negative thoughts and you're converting it into a negative thinking mode.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (27:21)

Exactly.

Mel Robbins (27:22)

And unintentionally programming this network to be heavy or negative or to bring you down, that you can recognize that, and you can use the exact same science to consciously choose positive energy and positive thinking, which then changes the neural network, the energy, the powering in your body, which only makes you more able to. To meet the things going on in your life.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (27:52)

You summarized that brilliantly, Dr. Leif.

Mel Robbins (27:55)

This feels like a great time to hit the pause button so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors. And as you've been listening to Dr. Leif, and you're learning how to clean up your mental mess and leverage the power of your mind to change your brain. I am sure you had people that you care about come to mind. Please take a moment and share this with them, because we all need to know how to clean up our mental mess. And we're only just getting started, so don't go anywhere. Dr. Leif and I will be waiting for you after a short break. B2B marketing just means business to business. You're not selling sneakers to teenagers. You're selling your service software or solution to another business. And let me tell you, not easy to market to other businesses. You can run the perfect ad, but if it lands in front of the wrong people, invisible like try selling accounting software to a yoga instructor. No offense to the yogis out there. That's why I love LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn is where the pros are, over 1 billion of them. And with LinkedIn ads, you can target people by title, industry, seniority, company size, skills, you name it. So you stop wasting your budget and start connecting with people who actually matter to your business. Anytime I've ever used LinkedIn ads, it works because you reach decision makers. Not just someone scrolling, but the people who could say yes. Well, that's possible for you too. LinkedIn will even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. So you can try it yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.commel that's LinkedIn.commel terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. If you're trying to get your energy up, manage your health, or just feel better in your body, what you eat is fundamental. And here's something so cool that I want to tell you about. It's a company called Fay Nutrition. They connect you with real registered dietitians. Not influencers, not an AI bot, actual experts. And the best part is, all dietitians on Fay take insurance. So 95% of people pay $0 for their sessions. Yes, that's right, $0. So whether it's gut health, postpartum, weight loss, sports nutrition, whatever it may be, Fay Nutrition has a nutritionist for you. It's smart, it's easy. Go check out Fay Nutrition. Having a personalized nutritionist used to cost big bucks, but not anymore. With Faye. Listeners of the Mel Robbins podcast can qualify to see a registered dietitian for as little as $0 by visiting Feynutrition.com Mel that's Feynutrition.com Mel one last time. Feynutrition.com Mel and make sure you use that URL so they know I sent you. Have you seen the prices at the grocery store lately? It's ridiculous, you know. And here you and I want to eat healthy, take care of yourself and feed your family. Holy smokes. Well, that's why you want to check out Thrive Market. It's an online grocery store that only sells the healthiest, highest quality stuff. And because it's member based, the price is lower than your typical health food store. Your membership literally pays for itself in savings thanks to everyday low prices, daily deals, and free full size gifts on qualifying orders. Almond butter, organic snacks, grain free tortillas, clean protein bars, and my favorite, electrolyte packets all in one place. Yes, please. And listen, with Thrive Market, there's no impulse junk at the checkout line. No wandering the aisles, no wasting time, just the best stuff delivered right to your door. Take care of your health and your wallet. Thrive Market's biggest sale of the summer is officially on. For a limited time, go to thrivemarket.commel to get 30% off your first order and an extra 25% off thousands of summer essentials, plus a free $60 gift just for signing up. That's thrivemarket.commel to claim the offer before it's gone. Thrivemarket.commel welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. And today you and I are getting to spend time together with psychoneurobiologist Dr. Caroline Leif. She's here today unpacking more than 35 years of her pioneering research and clinical studies and teaching you how to completely rewire your brain using the unbelievable power of your mind. So, Dr. Leif, the next question I want to ask you is this. While we're on the topic of your book, when I was reading it, I noticed that there was this whole section about how labeling a mental health issue. You know, for example, when you say I have anxiety, I have depression, I have ptsd, that that's actually harmful. As a neuroscientist, what do you mean by that?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (32:33)

Oh, wow. I'm so glad you asked this question. The last 40 years, we've had the biomedical model. And the biomedical model basically has taken our experiences as humans and put them into a diagnosis and a label and a treatment. Now that works brilliantly. If you have diabetes or heart issues or anything like that, that model is, is medical. It's a good model. But the mind doesn't work like that because the mind isn't driven by the brain. So that model is based on the fact that your brain is it. And your brain produces mind. Your brain produces nothing. Your brain is a responder, it's a host. And it just does what the mind tells it to do. And if your mind keeps feeding it all the stuff like we've been describing, eventually, over time, cumulatively, your body and mind break down. So you become vulnerable to disease. And the research shows that 95% of lifestyle diseases come from our thought life. 95%. So that's established scientific fact, the labels of PTSD, schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, they all seem as though they're the same as something like diabetes, but they're not. They're not at all the word anxiety. And we'll see this when we do the neurocycle. And depression, those are not things. Those are emotional warning signals.

Mel Robbins (33:47)

They're telling you that you're out of alignment with how you need to pay attention.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (33:50)

Yes. Otherwise it's going to get worse. So you've got to. If you put your hand on the stove and it's burning, you can take all the ibuprofen in the world that you want and painkillers, but if you. Until you remove your hand from the stove, you still going to have your. It's going to burn a hole through your hand. So what we're doing is toxic positivity. Ignore labeling, medicating. That's just trying to deal with the symptoms. What we have to do is embrace all the scariness, sadness, darkness of life, and you use that to learn and to grow. That's essentially what we need to do. So labeling locks your. You in. Because PTSD is not an it. It's a behavior. Depression and anxiety are not an it. They're emotional warning signals. PTSD is a behavioral warning signal.

Mel Robbins (34:36)

What. What does that mean? It's not an it.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (34:38)

Okay?

Mel Robbins (34:38)

It's a signal.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (34:39)

So it's not a fixed thing. So when you label something like diabetes, it's a. It's something wrong with your pancreas. This insulin, it doesn't produce enough insulin. They can do a test and they can target a medication. When it comes to ptsd, it's not the same thing. It's not something that you can target specifically with a medication. PTSD is a. Is a big word for a bunch of reactions that we have to adverse circumstances. So whether you're in war, whether you've been raped repeatedly as a child, whether you've been in a tremendous socioeconomic strain, whether you've had a bullying relationship at work, all of that is not ptsd. Be. Each one is its own unique story. You can't just take that hugeness, stick it in a label and say, oh, your brain is broken here. Let's fix it here. It's not about your brain.

Mel Robbins (35:26)

What is it about?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (35:26)

It's about your mind. It's about the experience. So it's about the experience that you've had. So adverse response to adverse experience.

Mel Robbins (35:34)

It makes you normal and it makes you healthy.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (35:36)

Exactly.

Mel Robbins (35:37)

And when you say mind, I want to be very, very clear that what you're saying when you say mind is. You're saying that the experience that you had that was creating the traumatic response was recorded by the mind. It was programmed into the brain and the body and the nervous system. And by labeling it and by focusing on it, you make that experience stay around, like locked.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (36:08)

Locked in. You're locking it in.

Mel Robbins (36:09)

It's like putting it in.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (36:11)

And that's now. And then you're shifting to that, and then that becomes your defining.

Mel Robbins (36:15)

How do you want us to think about it? Because, you know, you're a neuroscientist that has success healing traumatic brain injury and also healing other traumas in the brain and the body by beginning with the mind. So how do you want us to think about trauma, anxiety and depression?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (36:32)

Okay, so great question. So I want you to think about them as simply how you showing up as words, descriptions for how you're showing up, as opposed to diseases of the brain. They will impact your brain. We've heard that whole story already from the beginning. How whatever goes in the mind then goes in the brain and the body. And because our brain and our body are not wired for that, the network's not wired for that. It creates a disruption and telomeres and cells and all that breaks down and we get vulnerable to disease. So there's an impact, but it's not the cause. So the brain's not the cause. Life is the cause. Because you. You aren't depression. You are feeling depressed because of. You aren't ptsd. You're experiencing PTSD symptoms because of. So we need to find the.

Mel Robbins (37:15)

Because of Dr. Leif, as a neuroscientist who has been studying the way that you can use the mind to heal the brain and the body. You look at these as responses to adverse experiences in life that can become your default response to life. Because nobody understands how to use the power of the mind and the programming and energetic force that the mind is to create a different network inside the body.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (37:50)

Exactly.

Mel Robbins (37:50)

That heals the response that you had to traumatic or very overwhelming situations in life.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (37:59)

Absolutely.

Mel Robbins (38:00)

And that's what you mean the mind has the power to heal.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (38:04)

Yes.

Mel Robbins (38:04)

Your trauma, your anxiety and your depression.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (38:07)

Exactly. And it's not like they're going to just be replaced. We've got to keep stressing that we're not. We're not just pulling out one thought and putting in another. You actually embracing, processing and reconceptualizing. Very different to just pulling a thought out and trying to replace it with a positive thought. You're actually looking head on at that intrusive thought that is associated with that.

Mel Robbins (38:28)

Because if you, or that response, that response that is coming from a traumatic experience, so it's become your response to withdraw or freeze or run or whatever.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (38:37)

Whatever those are, you're looking at the whole cluster, you're looking and you, you start. That's exactly where you start. You start with the responses, those are signals. And the signal, and along with those signals is if you, as soon as you look at the signal that run, the anxiety, the ptsd, those, the heaviness of depression, heaviness, those things, that's, that's the how you showing up. It's a big broad description of how you're showing up. And once you've got that, what neuroscientific research shows is that the minute that you're aware of something, that's when you start weakening it and you can change it when something's strong and stuck labels lock you in that kind of concept or stuck in a pattern. You can't, it's very, it feels like you can't change it because you, you aren't depression, you are feeling depressed because of, you aren't ptsd. You are feeling, you're experiencing PTSD symptoms because of. So we need to find the. Because of. And then we don't need to, as I mentioned earlier on, we don't need to get stuck in the sinking sand of why did they do that to me? You'll become a victim, you won't move forward. But then I need to start. Okay, how am I going, how do I want this to play out in my future? I reconstruct, but then I reconstruct that thought, that toxic thought. Part of the thought has now lost salience. It's shrunk, it never goes away because I can remember what happened to me, but it's now instead of hold power.

Mel Robbins (39:56)

It doesn't hold power because you are able to leverage the energetic programming force exactly. Of your mind to go back into your body, brain and nervous system and flood it with a completely different programming related to the experience, the response, all of it. And there's so much optimism about this. You call this five step process neuro cycling. And I just want to read from your book, this is on page 106 of Cleaning up your mental mess. So this is what the science means for you. You can transition from just being aware of your chaotic and toxic thoughts to being empowered to catch these thoughts in their early stages, manage them and improve your overall peace and well being with appropriate mind management training and self Regulation, which is what cleaning up the mental mess using the neuro cycle is all about. You can systematically use your mind to take advantage of the neuroplasticity of your brain to rework and rewire your thoughts. And there's even more. You'll become equipped to prevent the development of toxic thoughts, reconceptualize traumatic thoughts and change and improve all areas of your life, including managing depression, anxiety and burnout that can come from chronic and recurrent stress, trauma identity issues, isolation, sleep difficulties, challenges with exercise and diet, and so much more. It's incredibly exciting to see. And this is what I really want you to hear. That after 21 days of using this neuro cycle process. Check this out. 81% reduction in depression and anxiety in the clinical trial. 81% reduction in 21 days. Simply using the power of our minds and our thoughts and the energy it brings to reprogram the experience of our life and to completely change and reconceptualize trauma. How the heck we do this? Because there's five steps and I wanna use an example. So intrusive thoughts, which we now are best friends, right? Yeah, because it's signaling something to us.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (42:20)

Exactly.

Mel Robbins (42:21)

And let's say that you're just like got something going on at work and you don't have the greatest relationship with your boss and you're having trouble sleeping and you are chronically feeling like you're gonna get in trouble or it's gonna be a bad day, or you're not doing a good job, or you're not gonna make your numbers or you're not gonna get that thing that you want, or it's just, you just hate like bracing. You got a conversation with your boss today. You don't wanna deal with it and you're kind of in that negative loop. It's causing stress. You don't know how to shake it. How do we use your five step process the neurocycle in that situation.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (42:57)

Okay, great example. Okay, so first thing is gather awareness. Second one is reflect. Third step is to write mindstorm, which I'll explain. Recheck is the fourth step and active reach is the first step. It's not a technique. We're talking about a formula that helps you go from the signals all the way to the thought to the root. Reconstruct and change how it plays out into your future.

Mel Robbins (43:21)

Okay, so it's gather information, gather awareness, reflect, write, recheck, and then active reach.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (43:29)

Yeah. Okay, so first thing before, let's say now that you're about to go to Work. The first thing is you need to do a mind brain, body prep and that you can do. There are so many different ways.

Mel Robbins (43:38)

So is this the like gathering awareness part?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (43:40)

No. Okay. This is before that.

Mel Robbins (43:41)

Okay.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (43:42)

So the first thing is to, is to just prepare yourself neurophysiologically and that you can do anything from a visualization to breathing to a meditation. You don't even have to close your eyes when you meditate. But one that really does work is a 10 second pause. There's a lot of science behind the 10 second pause.

Mel Robbins (43:57)

What is the 10 second pause?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (43:58)

10 you can use. You count to 10, you do 10 breaths, but you can do it in any combination you want. So let's say for example, you're feeling really angry and you feel that and you think of the boss and you want to get that anger under control because that's the predominant, like oh, I'm so mad that I have to. Then I would recommend something like you breathe in for two counts, hold for two counts, and then breathe out for six. But in the first three of the six you say let and the second three of the six you say go. So it's in, hold, and then out. But as you count and I'll count to six and you can try it as I count to six, you're going to say let go in the sixth part.

Mel Robbins (44:37)

So let to myself, to yourself. Because I'm breathing so I can't say it.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (44:40)

You can't say them, so you're breathing. So okay, in 1, 2, hold. 1, 2, out. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. In the 1, 2, 3, you say let and the 3, 4, 5, 6, go. This is let them theory. I mean it's like literally lines up with your let them theory that oxygen isn't just breathing. We hear so much about breathe, breathe, breathe. You've used 10 seconds. 10 seconds is very significant in terms of the conscious mind. The conscious mind works with little bursts of 10 seconds. So the non conscious mind works with an infinite speed. The conscious mind can only handle like one little conversation at a time, which is like a 10 second little burst of activity. So you, what you do is you keep your conscious mind in its zone, which is a 10 second zone, so you don't overwhelm. So it takes the overwhelm away and unconscious can handle everything. And you can do it once or up to six times. So 60 seconds of that just to get yourself. So that's an example.

Mel Robbins (45:40)

So the 10 second breathing method that you just taught us, that works for the conscious mind, which kind of pulls you into the moment.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (45:49)

Into the moment.

Mel Robbins (45:50)

And that allows you to then do this five step process. Any moment that you feel negative thoughts, a negative emotion, a response that feels like a feeling freeze or an odd edgeness, you do the 10 second breath and then what? How do we do the neuro cycle?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (46:07)

Okay, so gather awareness is step one, four sentences. You ask yourself what am I feeling? And you answer, I am feeling. And it may be one or two words. Frustration, anger, nervous.

Mel Robbins (46:18)

I'm feeling nervous.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (46:19)

There you go. Then you say where am I feeling this in my body? Bodily sensation. And so maybe shoulders are tense or your heart's beating faster or you sweating, whatever. How, what, what are my behaviors? What am I saying and doing? What am I about to say and do? Getting. I can feel my face contorting. I can feel myself building up to snap or whatever. And then the fourth signal. What's my perspective at the moment? How am I looking at the day in this moment? It's going to be a lousy day. I can't handle this. I hate this. So you just gather awareness. So you very, very calmly stand back and observe. You're self regulating. You are taking control. See what makes us feel terrible is all of this stuff just coming at us.

Mel Robbins (47:02)

It is so messy. It's just like all over the place. And then I don't know how to gather the thoughts because they're all over the place. But now I'm grounding myself exactly by asking how do I feel?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (47:11)

And it's organized. It's not just random, it's very, very clear. What your brain, mind, body, mind, brain, body, network.

Mel Robbins (47:17)

Okay, so it's what do I feel? Yeah, where am I feeling that? My body.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (47:21)

Yes, body.

Mel Robbins (47:22)

It's what am I doing or behaviors in response to it? And what is. There was something about my face.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (47:29)

Okay, perspective.

Mel Robbins (47:31)

Perspective. So let me say that again because I want to make sure that the person listening gets this too. How am I feeling? Where am I feeling it in my body? What are the behaviors, the thoughts and.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (47:40)

The kind of actions?

Mel Robbins (47:41)

Actions. And what's my perspective or thought about this?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (47:46)

How am I looking at life?

Mel Robbins (47:47)

How am I looking at it? Negatively? I can tell you right now if it's bothering me. It's like death day for me.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (47:52)

There we go. So perspective is like putting on a pair of glasses.

Mel Robbins (47:55)

Gotcha.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (47:55)

And if it's all broken and shattered and whatever, you can't see. So what is your perspective? Life is lousy. Life sucks. Life. So it's an attitude, it's not a thought yet.

Mel Robbins (48:03)

Nothing ever goes my way. I'm going to be alone forever. I always screw up. Got it? Okay.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (48:07)

It's always going to be like this. That's what you want to capture. So what you're doing is you are objectively in a very kind and compassionate and loving way, because this is okay. You got to kind of start out by saying part of that mind, brain, body prep is to say it's okay to be a mess. All of us are messy. Most of us walk around for most of the day not happy, just going through the motions of life. This whole thing of trying to be happy all the time has also been a disaster. It's really made people feel worse. So part of that first mind, brain, body prep is to really bring in an attitude towards yourself of kindness and compassion. And it's okay to be a mess. This is not Mel. This is.

Mel Robbins (48:42)

Well, I think if you even have the presence of mind to collect yourself and do the 10 second breathing. And now you're gathering information instead of running yourself over mentally.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (48:52)

Exactly.

Mel Robbins (48:53)

You are being kind to yourself.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (48:54)

You are, but you're so.

Mel Robbins (48:55)

And what I find, like nine times out of ten when I do this, it's the same thing. I've done something wrong. That is the core thing that it comes back to for me. And I think as people start to use your process, you find that you start to find it's like I'm not good enough. I'm not lovable. I'm always alone. Like that kind of for me, it's like I have done something wrong. So once you've asked these four questions and you've gathered the awareness, the second step is reflect. What do you do?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (49:21)

So, reflection. If you think of a reflection, you look at yourself in the mirror, you see the reflection of yourself. There's also the concept of a reflection of light through a prism. If you shine a white light through a prism, that comes out.

Mel Robbins (49:31)

Yes, yes.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (49:31)

So there's depth and there's reflection. So you're reflecting on how am I seeing myself in relation to those four questions. You keep very organized. Don't jump all over. So you say you reflect on why am I seeing myself this way and what does it mean? So you look in the mirror and you go deep and you use the wh questions. The who, the what, the when, the where, the why, the how.

Mel Robbins (49:51)

Okay, so how do I do that?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (49:52)

So why am I feeling like this in this moment? Why am I specifically feeling it in my stomach? Is it always in my stomach when I feel this? Where is this happening? Is it only happening at work. Is it happening before? How often? How often is it happening? Is it happening every day or just now and then? So you just start the process. You're not going to solve it all, but it's very specific. I'm looking at myself in the mirror, I'm reflecting back and I'm going deep. Who, when, where, what, why, how? I don't have to answer all of them, but what makes sense to one. Now those two, three steps people are pretty good at. The meditation, the breathing, all that stuff. They're pretty good at saying how they feel, but that's when people crash.

Mel Robbins (50:29)

Well, it's sort of like people who go to therapy for years and years and years and just get good at talking about their problems, but don't ever move to the solution part or the.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (50:39)

Attacking the problem moving forward.

Mel Robbins (50:41)

So how do we do that here? Because we're now becoming aware of the thing, the cycle that you're normally in, which is very important to separate yourself from it.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (50:50)

Yes.

Mel Robbins (50:50)

And you're doing it in a way where you're calm, organized.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (50:53)

Very calm, Very organized.

Mel Robbins (50:54)

The next part is. Right. What am I writing now?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (50:57)

What we do is we go to. So I've got all this stuff come up. I've got my whole network stuff now activated. I can change. Now you go into a writing mindstorm phase. So I'm adding the word mindstorm on because that's in that write a mind.

Mel Robbins (51:11)

Gotcha.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (51:11)

So it's easy.

Mel Robbins (51:12)

So this is like the tsunami of trash and garbage and toxic crap. Everything that's swirling in my brain related.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (51:19)

To what you've just done.

Mel Robbins (51:20)

So I hate the boss. I've made another mistake. I'm about to get fired. I'm a loser. I'm never good enough.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (51:25)

Exactly. All the stuff you threw out at the beginning.

Mel Robbins (51:27)

Beginning.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (51:28)

That's what you do. So. So what we did was we calmed. We gathered awareness. Very specifically, four questions, four answers. We reflected and started the who, what, when we why. So now you're very organized. Notice I keep saying we're bringing order out of chaos. Very specific. When you do that. There's all kinds of neuroscientific things happening now that has shone the light on that network. So now that network's got lots of branches. So that's what the third step's doing, is pulling up all this stuff.

Mel Robbins (51:52)

And how do you write?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (51:53)

Shopping list.

Mel Robbins (51:54)

What am I writing?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (51:55)

So you can. Words, phrases, whatever. So this is where it's good to get a blank piece of paper.

Mel Robbins (51:59)

Okay.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (52:00)

Draw a circle in the Middle.

Mel Robbins (52:01)

Draw a circle in the middle. Okay.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (52:02)

Literally draw a circle in the middle. Okay. And this is what I call a meta cog. It's a who, M E, T, A.

Mel Robbins (52:10)

C O G. Meta metagog Metacog. Okay, I got a metacog circle right here. What am I doing?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (52:17)

It looks of it like a concept map or a mind map if anyone knows what those are.

Mel Robbins (52:20)

No, I don't.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (52:20)

Okay, so it's. You start. Okay, never mind. You start in the middle.

Mel Robbins (52:23)

Yeah.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (52:24)

Not over here. And work left to right because that limits your ability to think in a broader way.

Mel Robbins (52:29)

Oh, okay. So what am I doing in the circle?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (52:32)

All you're going to do now is you're just going to write what you think. The thought of a hate boss. You're going to write the hate boss. You write them. What do you think is the sort of what is the thought you're working on? What is the thought that's bugging you? It's I hate my boss or whatever. Okay.

Mel Robbins (52:45)

Or I'll never be successful. I always screw up. Like I'm always getting passed over. I'm never going to make the money like it could be.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (52:51)

I want to you to get more specific than that. Okay? Because this is not in life in general. We're going to go specifically to the example you chose. So this, this particular example, we're not going to go broad. This is the mistake everyone makes. All of us. It's not. This is not pointing fingers at anyone. We all do this. We go, sure. No, no, no.

Mel Robbins (53:07)

That's why my mind's a mess, Dr. Leaf. Because I go all over the place.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (53:11)

All of us. All of us.

Mel Robbins (53:13)

Okay, so you're now got a work problem and you have a lot of stress around work and so you're literally going to stay focused on that because.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (53:20)

That'S what you want to solve now because you woke up. That's the problem that's worrying you right now. That's your intrusive thought. That's your best friend. That's what's popped up.

Mel Robbins (53:28)

Dr. Leif, this feels like a great moment to hit the pause. I have a ton more that I want to dig into with you, but let's hear a word from our amazing sponsors. And while you listen to the sponsors, take a moment and share this incredible life changing research with people that you care about. Dr. Leaf's work has helped millions of people clean up their mental mess and take control of their life. And this episode could absolutely help somebody that you care about do the same thing. And don't go anywhere because Dr. Leif and I will be waiting for you after a short break. Have you ever had that feeling where your body's just done like you need to hit the reset? Well, that's exactly why Chris and I are getting a clearlight infrared sauna. We're actually having a consultation soon to decide which one's right for us because there are incredible options. Clearlight was designed by Dr. Raleigh Duncan and has been around for nearly 30 years. They're the ones who invented Truwave infrared technology that means you get the deepest infrared heat for the fastest results. They have indoor and outdoor models, gorgeous Italian inspired design, and low EMF and ELF output. Plus there's a lifetime residential warranty and you can finance it for less than a gym membership. Imagine having an infrared sauna at home. Check out Clearlight. Go to clearlightsauna.com Mel and schedule a free sauna consultation. A Clearlight expert will help you determine the right infrared sauna and wellness add ons based on your health goals. Red light therapy, Salt therapy, chromotherapy. Plus you'll save up to $600 off your purchase and get free shipping when you go to clearlightsona.com Mel before the end of the month Pressure makes everything seem impossible. I don't know about you, but I put so much pressure on myself. Or at least I used to. And pressure can be good. But if you're going to put pressure on yourself, you know what else you need? You also need positive encouragement. Because the truth is, you didn't get to where you are right now and neither did I alone. And you didn't get there by being hard on yourself. You also got there because there were lots of people along the way reminding you, hey, you got this. That kind of support means everything when somebody shows up for you or you show up for someone else. It's not just support, it's a game changer. Positivity is a choice and it has the potential to transform the experience of sport altogether. We all have the power to choose. You got this. Instead of don't f this up. There's nothing like a great assist to help us remember you got this. Learn more@adidas.com yougot this. You know what just happened to me? I have got to pack for a work trip next week and it's going to be like 90 degrees. So I go into my closet and nothing seemed right. Like it either doesn't fit or it's too dressy or it's too clingy or too hot or Too tight. Well, I don't have to worry about it anymore. Thanks to Quince. Quince makes timeless pieces that feel luxurious, look amazing and hold up, especially in this hot weather. I love the linen button downs. 100% European linen. They're about $30 and it works for everything. Cookouts, days in the warm podcast studio. You can even throw it over a bathing suit. That's what I need. Boom, right there. Designer feel without the designer price. And trust me, every time you wear it, someone's gonna ask, hey, where'd you get that? These are the kind of pieces you find yourself reaching for on repeat. The way they can do luxury at these prices is ethical. They just cut out the middleman and work directly with the manufacturers. Give your summer closet an upgrade with quince. Go to quince.commel for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U-I-N-C-E.commel to get free shipping on your order and 365 Day returns. Quince.commel welcome back. It's your buddy, Mel Robbins. Thank you for taking a moment to share this episode with somebody that you care about. Thank you for being here and being interested in your own mind and learning how to use it for good instead of constantly using it to beat yourself up. And Dr. Caroline Leaf has got more of her pioneering research to unpack. And so, Dr. Leaf, the next thing that I want to talk to you about is this. If I've got a mental mess and my thoughts are all over the place and I can easily go from one intrusive thought, I'm going to give you.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (57:45)

A trick to do that, please. There's a trick. So it's called a thinker moment.

Mel Robbins (57:49)

Thinker moment, as in thinker think a moment.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (57:51)

So what you do is you think, oh, I don't know what thought to work on. My mind's everywhere like you've just described. So you shut your eyes, you close off the external world and you switch onto your internal world that creates a beautiful activity through the mind, brain, body, network that enables you to then just allow the free flow of thoughts. In that free flow of thoughts. What you do is you observe that free flow of thought and you see which is the one that's popping up the most. In this moment. There's probably 10 things popping up. 20.

Mel Robbins (58:18)

You know what actually just happened for me when I closed my eyes?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (58:21)

What happened?

Mel Robbins (58:21)

And I don't even like have this issue right now with work.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (58:24)

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (58:25)

But when I closed my eyes and imagined Moments in my life where I absolutely hated my job. I mean, I'm talking. I was in my 20s. I was working for this big law firm here in Boston. I had left my dream job of being a public defender in New York City. I would commute in on the train, and, like, as the train was, like, the closer we got, I just felt more and more of a pit in my stomach as I would walk from the commuter rail, you know, through the blocks, past the Dunkin Donut, take a right. I think it was on High Street. H I G H I would then walk up to the building. I would then go into the lobby. I'd say hello to Ralph, who's sitting at the front desk. I would get into the lobby with every other miserable person in a corporate building, and I'd go all the way up to the 17th floor. And I'd always contemplate that there was no 13th floor in this building, so they must have been superstitious. And then I would get out, and I just felt dread. And when I closed my eyes and put myself there, it's kind of cool. All of that noise left. And I literally thought, I'm stuck here. Like, I have no. There's nothing I like. It was this sense of, I am going to feel like this. I'm stuck. I've made the wrong sort of. Like, I can't get out of this.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (59:53)

How to land up here.

Mel Robbins (59:54)

And so it became so much deeper. Like, you talk about the root, you talk about the program, You've taught us that our mind goes not just upstairs between the ears, it's down to the toes. Like, when you close your eyes and do that, it goes a lot deeper. Because it wasn't about the boss at all. It was about this core feeling of being alone and stuck. And I. Yeah, the dread stuck.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (60:14)

And what you did was you allowed yourself to tap into an unconscious. Your unconscious knows exactly what's disruptive to you in this moment.

Mel Robbins (60:22)

All right, now, so what do we do next?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (60:23)

Okay, so you asked what to write to us. You would write those four signals. What did you. What were the emotions? Write the emotions on. What were the behaviors? What were the perspectives? What were the body sensations? What words came up? Just write them all over the page. They can be onlines in bubbles. Just put all over the page.

Mel Robbins (60:38)

I just had this huge insight about the stuckness. If you have an insight like that, when you close your eyes, is that enough, or do you still need to.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (60:46)

Yeah, yeah. Because you're not gonna get it.

Mel Robbins (60:48)

Everything that you do has branches And I'm starting to realize it's because we're not.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (60:52)

Everything's connected.

Mel Robbins (60:52)

Yes. And it's also that you're catching yourself in the moment. But you're also doing the work of, of getting to the deeper program.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (61:00)

That's why you need tomorrow and the next day. And you're not going to solve it today. You'll get control of the dreadful today. But walk yourself through the 10 second pause. Walk yourself through. Gather awareness. Walk yourself through, reflect. Walk yourself through this. Now you say, okay, let's have a look at this. Okay, Mel, let's have a look at this.

Mel Robbins (61:14)

Now, is this the recheck part?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (61:15)

Recheck, step four. We're going to reconceptualize. We're going to look at this from another angle. This is what's happened. What can we do about it now? Not forever, not next week, now. How do I get through today? This moment? How can I see this differently? Well, today maybe it's day one. So you might just say, oh, I just realized that because you described in absolute depth about the 13th floor, right up to the 17th and the high street, that your realization there would be what I would say with your reconceptualization as you recheck. This is. Wow. It's imprinted so much on my mind. Every moment of getting to that office, to the 17th floor was pure and utter dread. And every day I just reinforced it, grew more and more in my head. Wow. That's what's happened. That's enough for the recheck for that day. Just that awareness on day one. Tomorrow you can start doing some more on it. But just the awareness, wow, that level of detail that I attention that I paid to that process, it's linked to that dread. It's linked to. I'm in the wrong. I think I must be in the wrong place. I don't have a solution yet. I've got to go to work today. I don't have another job. I don't know if that's the solution. I don't know yet. But it's okay. It's okay to not be okay. So now what can I do? First step, active reach. Actively reach for something that you can do to get you through the day.

Mel Robbins (62:28)

What if you don't know what to do? Because I think that's the thing, like when you first start this and you actually become present to what you're feeling, which is the first step, what is one thing that somebody who is starting to apply this to interrupt and to work this neuro cycle, which is you actively consciously using your mind to interrupt the negative thoughts and energy in these five steps. What is one thing that you could do as an example of active reach? If you can't think of something so.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (63:05)

Something really simple is just repeat. It's okay to be a mess. It's okay to feel like this. It's a statement, a phrase. It could be a visualization. And what you do. So it could be something as simple as a, wow, I'm actually starting to see something. Well done. It could be a simple phrase like that. And you could imagine. If you like to visualize, you could imagine a beautiful flower. And then what you do is you take the phrase, you attach it to the visual, and then as you go through the day, each time you feel the dread emerging, you're not suppressing, but you're going to deal with it tomorrow. And the reason you deal with it tomorrow is because our physical brain, body, and conscious mind don't have the same level of energy as the nonconscious. The unconscious has unlimited energy.

Mel Robbins (63:44)

So it's always going to be popping stuff up. So it's always going to keep coming up. You can be like, you can go through this. And then just literally, even if you're like, okay, I'm recognizing it. This is a good thing. Or, I'm capable of figuring this out.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (63:54)

Exactly.

Mel Robbins (63:54)

That's my favorite. I'm capable of figuring you're reaching for something positive.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (63:58)

I can mindset. I can mindset. I don't know what is, but I can somehow I can get through this. I've got two things before. So is this to find something. It could be.

Mel Robbins (64:05)

I can.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (64:06)

I can mindset.

Mel Robbins (64:07)

I can get through this. I can figure this out. I can create a different experience in my life. I can use the tools Dr. Leaf taught me.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (64:16)

I can.

Mel Robbins (64:17)

I can use my mind to heal my body and my brain.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (64:21)

Exactly, Exactly. So you take that, and then what you would do is. The key thing is you don't have to put it onto a visual, but you can is to. Then every time that you go, as you go through the day, every time you feel the dread emerging and you just. You don't allow yourself to go there, you grab the active reach. The active reach keeps you anchored in the moment and keeps you. Keeps you that thought up with a deconstruction process happening. Then the next day, you pick up where you ended. Okay, now let's see. What do I feel today? And then you go through the same cycle again. And so you move through after 63 days you would have recreated a new habit. It doesn't take 21 days to build a habit, it takes 63. The 21 days is the hard work and then the other 42 days is much easier still. The neuro cycle, you do it daily, but it stabilizes the thought and there's an upper and down journey there. So for people to realize that if I'm changing a habit or I'm healing a trauma from the past, it's not going to happen in one neurocycle you need a neuro cycle daily. The first 21 days are hard up and down and in the balance of 42 or where you stabilize it into a habit. People are good at intending to change, but they tend to stop around day 14, day 21, day 28. Because those are the days where you think, oh, I kind of got this, I've been working at this and I feel okay. But if you stop at day 28, you'll go straight back. If you stop at day 36, you'll start reverting. It's for people to know that in the journey there is an actual 63 day process. To turn it into a habit takes. It's like watering a plant. If you don't keep adding water, it's going to die. So you've got to grow that network. It has to be grown with energy added daily. And then once it's grown to a certain point then you just do it without even you are thinking. But it's become automatized. Habits are built one tiny bit at a time. You will not solve this on day one. This is a big issue. You can't just leave the job as you mentioned. You can't just get rid of months of dread.

Mel Robbins (66:09)

And you're never gonna leave the job though if you continue to allow your mind to power you with negativity and nasty thoughts.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (66:17)

And he's gonna become an unhappy victim person who's just victim mentality. Nasty, unhappy, hate life, depressed, whatever. And you don't need to go there, you really don't, but you need to, but you're not gonna solve it in one day and that's really key. So that's.

Mel Robbins (66:30)

I don't want to hear that.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (66:31)

And I know you don't want to hear that, nor does anyone. So the first few days is hard work. It's quite stressful. You go up.

Mel Robbins (66:36)

But tell me the good news that there is amazing news though, because just like you say, using this simple five step process and even understanding that you can is a giant step forward. But there's even better news here.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (66:50)

Yeah, there is.

Mel Robbins (66:51)

And the better news is that based on your new clinical research and the new what is going to be mega bestselling book, help in a hurry. You have also established, based on research that you can in 63 seconds stop yourself from a negative thought or emotional spiral. How so?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (67:13)

Yes. Okay, so it's that point where you feel like you can't do too much. You're gonna just like someone says something to you, you wanna punch them in the face. You can't punch them in the face, but you can get yourself back under control. The moments where, oh, I got an.

Mel Robbins (67:26)

Email yesterday that was like. And I immediately felt like I was in trouble and that I'd done. Here we go again. The negative, that I'd done something wrong. Here's that intrusive thought again. And it started to spiral. I felt it in my chest. I didn't know how to respond to it. I was slightly annoyed that this person felt this way about something that had happened. It was all business related. And what do you do in that moment? Cause we've all had that moment where you literally get a text from somebody and you're like. And you just want to just text back all caps. And how do you stop?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (68:03)

Okay, so in, in that actual moment, the first thing that you need to do is to acknowledge it. The minute you say it, even if it's in your head or you can write it the minute it comes out. You take the power if it's inside, it basically builds up the wrong hormones. It's like when you cry. If you in grief and you cry, you actually taking the hormones out that if you keep them in would make the grief worse. So you're crying out. It's amazing. Yeah, it's amazing.

Mel Robbins (68:27)

Okay, so I just want to make so. So something happens and here's one that everybody can relate to. You get the text. Yeah, we need to talk.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (68:34)

Yeah. And then your heart just like, I mean just even that tone. All of us have had that. What has just happened? Oh no, what am I going to do? So it's in that moment that the first thing you're going to do is say out loud or in your head. This text makes me feel like this. It's the acknowledgement I have to say.

Mel Robbins (68:50)

It out loud, preferably. But if this text freaks me out.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (68:53)

Say it in your head. This text freaks me out. But because of why.

Mel Robbins (68:55)

Oh, we need the because.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (68:56)

Yes, you add the because.

Mel Robbins (68:58)

Why is the because important?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (68:59)

Because then you're giving yourself, you're getting it all out and you're giving yourself a reason. And as you start saying the because you see, oh, what, maybe it's not so bad or maybe I can handle. Because immediately solutions will come. The minute that you acknowledge and say.

Mel Robbins (69:11)

That'S why I think I'm like, because, because I think I'm in trouble and I think I did something wrong, like literally goes back to, to the same thing.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (69:18)

Then you go a little further and you say, okay, but why do I think I've done something wrong? If you can't answer, well, I don't know why, but that's their perception. They've obviously got a reason. I don't need to take it inside of me.

Mel Robbins (69:27)

So if you get the text, we need to talk and then you feel the spiral, step one is you've got to say it out loud.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (69:37)

Literally, this text makes me feel like.

Mel Robbins (69:40)

Terrified because I think they're going to break up with me.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (69:42)

Exactly. And then, so as soon as you've done that, it's out. It hasn't had time to lodge.

Mel Robbins (69:47)

Got it. Oh, I love that. It's like vomiting when you eat something that's like, yes, okay.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (69:52)

That's what help in a hurry is. It's vomiting out the punch the first person. That's the pressure cooker moment.

Mel Robbins (69:57)

So you're getting it out. It's the tears when you're sad, you're just getting it out, getting it out.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (70:01)

And then there's various ways you can deconstruct. So what I've done in the actual book help in Harry is I've gone through various scenarios like this sort of thing when you get the text in the moment or help them under pressure or help I'm in black and white thinking or people pleasing or the intrusive thoughts, all these things that catch us in the moment. And there's lots of different techniques that you can use and you just choose what you don't have to use. All of them. There's just different. But they all start out with this fact of let's first acknowledge this is how we're feeling. We all want to just push it down. We're in a society where suppression is kind of the, the name of the game and that's not what we want to do. We also can't just have it come out and not do something with it. That's why I say when you say it, when you let it come out in that 63, 63 seconds is enough time for you to say, wow, I did not expect this text. This text says this, this. And even read the text out loud. This is like crazy. Okay. This is making me feel like I, like, sick. I can't believe this. I feel like I want to get mad, I'm angry, I want to react, I want to say this and even write that down or say it out loud. I want to say these things. But this is okay, this is not realistic. I can't do that now. I have to function. I have to see the bigger picture. To stand back and observe and see the bigger picture of this thing. And then what can I do in this absolute moment? So it's a mini neuro cycle. You're doing a mini neuroscience. You actually gone through all five steps. You're gathering awareness of the different signals. You kind of seeing what it generates. Wow. This, this, this, this, this. You think, okay, well, I don't really know what they mean. I'm going to find out, but I need to. And the active reach would be all right. I'm going to prepare myself. I don't think I've done something wrong or if I have, I'm okay, I can handle this. Whatever they tell me, I can, I.

Mel Robbins (71:37)

Can, I can statement.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (71:38)

I can statement. So that's the more or less thing. And then these little tricks that you can do, like.

Mel Robbins (71:42)

Well, what I love about this example and the way that you described it is it kind of brings us full circle.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (71:47)

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (71:48)

Because when you can't ever control what other people are going to be doing or the texts that they're going to send, or the things that are going to go down in your life. And when you receive a text like that, we need to talk, that is input. And your mind, which you have taught us, takes that text from the outside world, translates it through energy into your entire body and every cell, creating an emotional response, feelings and thoughts about the thing. And if it is immediately messy, negative, traumatic, scary, overwhelming. Now what's happened is your mind has taken something from the outside world and actually turned it into negative energy and thoughts that then start impacting everything about how your body and brain function. And what you just taught us is that if that takes hold in 63 seconds, it sort of now is part of your reaction, it's in the programming. But if you can get it out and literally say, this text makes me nervous because I think I'm in trouble.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (73:04)

You design the network because it's still going to go in, but you drive the neuroplastic system.

Mel Robbins (73:08)

Now you're driving what gets in and what doesn't. And then when you say, I don't like this, but I can figure this out. Or I don't like how I feel right now because of this text, but I can handle this. Like the I can thing now. Inputs positive, energetic programming that reinforces a different network. Oh my God, that's so cool.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (73:33)

Exactly that. And then you know what you've also done? You've bypassed the toddler. Just getting stuck. You've accessed. You've dived straight down into your wisdom. You may not feel it in that moment, but it'll stop you freaking out, saying the wrong thing, responding with it. Negative email. You're reacting instead of responding. It will keep you in response mode as opposed to react mode. So when you do actually get in the scenario where they talk to you, then you, you calm, you're resilient, you. You're not living in chaos land. You're living in non conscious land. You want to constantly dive in and access the non conscious. So I don't know what the solution is going to be, but it's in you.

Mel Robbins (74:11)

Right.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (74:12)

But you can't hear it if you're in chaos. So the 63 seconds is to get you out of chaos.

Mel Robbins (74:17)

It's great.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (74:17)

And get you into that place where you can.

Mel Robbins (74:19)

It's really great. And you know, I'm gonna come back to this. Wiggling toes. I think there's something here because I know you talked about visualizing a flower, but when I said the I can figure this out, I sort of just wiggled my toes.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (74:28)

Perfect. Everyone's individual. Yeah.

Mel Robbins (74:30)

But only to basically pull the programming down to the roots here.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (74:34)

Exactly.

Mel Robbins (74:35)

And so I think if you were to do something like you're in the actual conversation, we need to talk. And you start to feel the tense coming in because now your mind is taking the energy and interpreting it. You could literally go, you know, I know I'm feeling tense because I don't know what's going to happen. You're thinking of this. Wiggle your toes and be like, I can figure this out. I'm going to be okay.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (74:53)

Perfect. You got it. You get a signal that works for yourself. That's why I'll give you a million different techniques in the book. But you work that out. Because what people generally will do, what we've been taught to do, is breathe. Yeah, we know we're going to breathe. And the breathe is oxygen, but the.

Mel Robbins (75:06)

Breathe just shoves down the thing that I'm scared of that's already in my brain, so.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (75:10)

Exactly. And notice that I said earlier on, when you breathe, you must attach the correct Cognitive message on top of it. So you are breathing, but you can't in the middle of a conversation. So you go and count. You know, you. Or if you get triggered, you know, you can't. Like the sipping. You can't do that. People will think you. Unless you.

Mel Robbins (75:25)

Whatever, I'm going to wiggle my toes.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (75:26)

Exactly. You wiggle your toes. You keep yourself focused, and then you just repeat it in your head. You repeat back what they've said. You talk. You pretend you're taking notes in the conversation. And you said, they just said this. This effing awful thing to me. And whatever. That's your. No one has to see your piece of paper, but it's. You've got it out. And now you redesign the network. You drive the direction, and that's what the neuropsychical concept is doing. It's giving you the power to drive neuroplasticity.

Mel Robbins (75:50)

So, Dr. Leif, if the person who is listening after. I mean, the amount that you have taught us today, absolutely unbelievable. If the person listening does just one thing or takes one thing away from this, what would you want the most important thing to be?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (76:14)

I think there's so many. But I think the most important thing is to realize that your mind is not your brain and that your mind is the 99% of who you are, and that you can change. You can't change your story, but you can change what it looks like inside of you and therefore, how it plays out into the future.

Mel Robbins (76:31)

Amazing. Dr. Leif, what are your parting words?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (76:34)

You cannot control the events and circumstances of your life, but you can control your reactions to the events and circumstances.

Mel Robbins (76:42)

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for just. This is extraordinary.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (76:48)

Thank you.

Mel Robbins (76:49)

You have a real gift in terms of being able to explain something so insanely scientific and intellectual and complicated in a way that I can understand the person listening can understand.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (77:04)

Thank you.

Mel Robbins (77:04)

I know that people are gonna share this with everybody in their life that they love and care about, because we all need your work in our lives. And I really, really appreciate how you broke it all down. And I feel very optimistic. And what's super cool is I believe you. I really believe that when you understand everything that you just taught us and you truly embrace the power of what your almost 40 years of groundbreaking research has proven, that you can leverage the power of your mind and the way that it's powering your body and your brain and its capacity to literally reprogram the experience of being you. Like, how exciting is that?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (77:58)

So exciting, isn't it? Thank you. For seeing what I'm trying to do and what I've been trying to do all these years, and we'll continue to do till we never, never stop.

Mel Robbins (78:08)

Don't. Don't stop. And, you know, I also want to thank you. Thank you for listening all the way until this moment. Thank you for really investing time into learning something that is so powerful and to really thinking about the power that you have in the beauty of your mind to heal yourself, to reprogram what it feels like to be you, to make changes. So does everybody in your life. You heard Dr. Leif say she is teaching these techniques to kids as young as two. We all need to learn this. So thank you for sharing this with people that you care about. And I also wanted to say, in case someone else tells you that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And, you know, I don't know that I've ever felt more optimistic about it now that I truly grasp the power of what Dr. Leif's research has proven to be true. That through the power of your mind, you can heal trauma, you can change your brain, you can change your life. And it doesn't cost a thing to actually do it. Alrighty. I will see you in a few days. I'll be waiting for you the moment you hit play in the very next episode. I'll see you there. I'll be waiting to welcome you in. Let me wait until that goes. It's garbage day. I'm waiting for the big lift up of the dumpster and then they tip.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (79:33)

It back and then it makes even more noise.

Mel Robbins (79:36)

Are they still out there? Sounds like they might be gone.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (79:39)

No.

Mel Robbins (79:40)

All right, let's try. Oh, Jesus.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (79:42)

Oh, my gosh.

Mel Robbins (79:45)

Oh, my God. I've never experienced it like this. Is it construction? Because it seems like construction. Really?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (79:54)

So much noise.

Mel Robbins (79:55)

It's hilarious. Yes.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (79:57)

Oh, Shane, are you okay?

Mel Robbins (79:58)

Oh, do you need to use the process?

Dr. Caroline Leaf (80:03)

Good one. She needs a neurocycle quickly.

Mel Robbins (80:05)

You need a neurocycle very quickly. I love that my mouth is like the Sahara desert.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (80:11)

And this is what I call a MetaCog. It's a who m, e t, a c o g meta, meta cog.

Mel Robbins (80:20)

Okay, here she is, Dr. Lee. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know, what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

Dr. Caroline Leaf (81:04)

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Mel Robbins (81:11)

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Dr. Caroline Leaf (81:22)

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Mel Robbins (81:26)

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Dr. Caroline Leaf (81:31)

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Mel Robbins (81:37)

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Dr. Caroline Leaf (81:39)

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Mel Robbins (81:41)

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