What really defines a cult—and why do smart, well-intentioned people get caught up in them? In this episode, Michael Shermer sits down with cult intervention specialist Ashlen Hilliard to explore the psychology of high-control groups and the people drawn into them. Her work has been featured in prominent media outlets like Hulu, NewsNation, HuffPost, and BET+.

In 2022, Ashlen founded People Leave Cults, offering intervention and recovery resources for survivors and concerned loved ones. As one of the few Cult Intervention Specialists in the country, Ashlen consults with a team of experts to develop personalized intervention strategies for families that have a loved one involved in a range of coercive situations, including cults, gangs, domestic violence, trafficking, and violent extremism. She also served as the Director of Events for the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA), organizing regional and international events, workshops, and conferences for those affected by the cult phenomena and psychological manipulation.

She is touring the Fall of 2025 in these cities for her show https://www.psychologyofcults.com/:

October 8 Jacksonville, FL Florida Theatre October 9 Newberry, SC Newberry Opera House October 11 Huntsville, AL Mars Music Hall October 12 Bristol, TN Paramount Bristol October 14 Charleston, WV Maier Foundation Performing Hall October 16 Stroudsburg, PA Sherman Theater October 17 Morristown, NJ Mayo Performing Arts Center October 18 Stamford, CT Palace Theatre October 19 Concord, NH Chubb Theatre October 21 Buffalo, NY Electric City October 22 Columbus, OH The Southern Theatre October 24 Pontiac, MI Flagstar Strand Theatre October 26 Cincinnati, OH Bogart's October 28 Chicago, IL City Winery October 29 Indianapolis, IN Clowes Memorial Hall October 30 Cleveland, OH Connor Palace November 23 Livermore, CA Livermore Valley Performing Arts Center

Why No One Thinks They’re in a Cult