← The mindbodygreen Podcast
The mindbodygreen Podcast
660: Why adding more to your diet beats eliminating | Wendy Bazilian, DrPH, MA, RDN
00:42:54
Bazilian is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist, American College of Sports Medicine Certified Exercise Physiologist, and Doctor of Public Health. She's authored multiple bestselling books, as well as contributed to a New York Times bestseller and a James Beard-nominated cookbook. She’s a spokesperson for Avocados – Love One Today and she’s a frequent nutrition expert cited in mindbodygreen articles.
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to the MyBodyGreen podcast. I'm Jason Wakab, founder and co CEO of MindBuddyGreen and your host. Get business done with the new American Express Graphite Business Cash Unlimited card with unlimited 2% cash back on all eligible purchases, unlimited 5% cash back on flights and prepaid hotels booked through American Express Travel Online and a flexible spending capacity that can grow with your business. You'll have the confidence to keep building. Apply today and earn a welcome offer of $1,500 cash back after you spend $50,000 in qualifying purchases on your new card within the first six months of card membership terms apply. Learn more at Go Amex Graphite. What if one of the reasons nutrition feels so confusing is because we've spent decades asking the wrong questions? Well, today we're asking the right ones. Dr. Wendy Bazileon is a registered dietitian, nutritionist, American College of Sports Medicine, certified exercise physiologist, and DO of public health. She's authored multiple bestselling books as well as contributed to a New York Times bestseller and a James Beard nominated cookbook. She's a spokesperson for Avocados Love one today and she's a frequent nutrition expert cited in many Mind bodygreen articles. In today's show, we revisit some of nutrition's biggest debates, from fat and locale to portion sizes, and examine what today's evidence actually says. Wendy explains why fiber deserves far more attention. The vital role of healthy fats, plus a few of her favorite snack ideas. We're going to go deep on avocados and I'm here for it. Avocado toast became the symbol of expensive wellness culture. But when we think about food through the lens of nutrient density, satisfaction and long term health, is price alone really the best way to define the value of a food? What should people actually be looking for in the foods they eat?
- [01:56]
B
It's such a great question. You know, I think of it sort of like as we're thinking about any investment, you know, that we make, you know, the surface might be the price, but then the value is what's inside. Or even if you look at a book, you know, you can't, you can't judge a book by its cover. It's like what's inside? So what are you, what are you purchasing and the value proposition that you're going at, going for. So what's I think so incredible is that avocados have sort of entered the scene now 20 years ago and much more before that, but sort of the avocado Toast craze. And everyone has an opinion on it. And we still sort of use this idea that it's, you know, an expensive marker of wellness and yet isn't the greatest thing that we can value our health and is the price per bite really getting you something? And so I like to like, sort of peel back the avocado maybe and take a look inside, you know, and there's so much research, you know, like a trend that kind of comes and goes, doesn't have the staying power that evolving and growing science has about avocados in a variety of areas we can look at, you know, everything from heart health. We'll, we'll dive into a little bit today. Weight management, you know, being a friend, which we might be able to myth bust around that whole concept there. And, and many more, many more areas. Blood sugar regulations, diabetes risk, healthy living, even, you know, some early science suggestive of some skin nutrient benefits as well. So a lot going on with avocados and I think value is something that we can take into our everyday. What is the value of the foods that we consume? And if you put two foods side by side, I would say you get a lot of value out of the fruit, which is another great thing to, to share that avocados are a fruit and you get a lot of fiber, fat, micronutrients, antioxidants and more in an
- [03:58]
A
avocado, which is like the cornerstone of like all sage advice as it relates to nutrition. And you know, you mentioned fads and I think it's just been interesting to watch how nutrition advice has really evolved over the years. You know, there was the low fat era, and then here we are today. Like, what is the science actually say now about dietary fat? And, and how do we get it so wrong for so long?
- [04:22]
B
I think there's a few things and I was thinking of, you know, in the, the value proposition and evolution of science. Sometimes I don't like to like, just throw out science because scientists have been, you know, really working the scientific method for a long, long time. But the evolution of. And we could, you know, go back to the 1950s and 40s to start, but we won't do that today. But the evolution of the science on fat has been an interesting story and what we used to be afraid of, and there's no surprise, I mean, you know, like, let's put it in the mind of, you know, us, the consumer. And that's the only time I like to use consumer in this context. It's like we're actually doing the eating if we think of fat and if we learned our basic biochem, we know that fats have more. Fats have more calories per gram than carbs or protein, for example. So we were afraid of the calorie at first. We have heard that different kinds of fat can increase risk maybe of certain markers of cardiovascular disease. We didn't really tease out at the time. And by we, I mean the science hadn't shown yet that there are different types of fat that really underscore a few different things that make the fat in avocados, the unsaturated fats, really a compelling and interesting story. So where I want to go with this is a couple, a couple things. One, basic nutrition science has always said that there are certain fat soluble vitamins. So if you can get to the 101 on this, you know, vitamins A, E, D and K that we learn about are so important for a variety of reasons. They require fat to be present to help them be absorbed in the body. So, number one, we need fat. I mean, there's no question about that. But also the type of fat. So the research has been showing and growing about unsaturated fats, which is the type that avocados have, and their relative value to reducing risk of heart disease. So not only independently in a variety of studies, but also in a swap type of scenario. So right around the 2010s or so, there was a number of studies that came out and that were published showing that when you swap in unsaturated fats for part of the saturated fat in our diet, cardiovascular disease risk goes down. And so we started to understand that fat had, you know, important chemical properties and important biological and physiological properties for our body, for our heart health. But we also found out that it was essential for other things like satisfaction and our mouth feel and enjoyment and creamy texture, and that there's more to eating than eating a single nutrient. So I think that the fat, you know, if we could bust one myth today, and we'll hopefully we'll bust a few, but it's really that fat, fat makes you fat, or the fat and foods, you know, just contribute to weight. And, you know, I can even tell you a research study that's fascinating, the hat trial, it was called. And a number of secondary trials or publications have come out of this. The most comprehensive study to date, which was a feeding trial where individuals, nearly a thousand individuals were given an avocado a day to add to their diet. An avocado a day. Think about that. Over the course of six Months. And these were people who had elevated waist circumference coming into this study. And what the findings showed was that not only didn't these individuals gain any weight, there was no change in their visceral fat, fat that increases risk of heart disease and other things, but their overall diet quality scores increased too. So we're getting sort of a two for one here. You're getting diet quality boosts, no change in weight in something that is pretty incredible. And they didn't like, give a little avocado. They gave a whole avocado day, a day over the course of six months. So it's pretty amazing that fat maybe doesn't make you fat, especially if you choose the type of, that comes along with a nice package. Like you find it in an avocado, a hundred percent.
- [08:29]
A
And you mentioned quality. And I want to spend a moment on calorie quality because in my view, all calories are they really created equal. People, you know, will hear avocados are high in calories. My view is that's not really what we should be thinking about here in terms of quality. Like, let's look at ultra processed foods. But I'm not the expert. How do you think about calories?
- [08:55]
B
Calories are sort of, sort of even in that price, that price tag scenario. Again, you know, calories might be like the price tag, but the nutrition is what comes in the box, you know, or in the, in this case, it's in the avocado. And it absolutely is true that when you're eating something that, you know, and we see this across many foods, but especially when you're incorporating something like an avocado, you're not just looking at calories. You're looking at what's the value per bite, what's the nutrition per bite for that calorie. And so you get, you know, I think there's 20 plus vitamins and minerals if you look at an avocado. Fiber, you know, we need to talk about fiber. You know, avocados are a good source of fiber, you know, so in the calorie package, you get lutein. That what's. What's gives it its green hue, which is a carotenoid. So you get a lot. So I really definitely agree with you that people often judge a food on calories alone. Still, you know, that's an enduring, you know, phenomenon. And I, I sort of get it. You know, I, you know, the energy and our concern about, you know, the energy that we take in. But these are not side by side comparisons. When you do Ultra processed food versus the, the full matrix that's going on in something like an avocado for the calories that you are consuming a hundred percent.
- [10:11]
A
It's why nutrient density is so critical and why ultra processed foods that also have a high caloric intake are probably like the worst thing for you. It matters what's in the food. Whole Foods wins. And you know, you mentioned fiber and it is like one of the biggest topics in health and wellness right now. But so many of us don't reach the daily recommended intake. In your view, why do we overlook fiber and why is it so critical to our well being?
- [10:39]
B
Yeah, you know, I mean, you know the statistics. But it's worth saying again, you know, roughly 6%, according to the most recent statistics, 6% of us are meeting the recommendation. So that leaves 94% of us on average, you know, not meeting it on a daily basis. You know, I think fiber is still a little abstract. I saw some Google trends that were pulled by a company a couple months ago, just recently though, like within the last two months where fiber was outpacing protein on like where do I find it? What are the sources? Because I think, you know, the question about confusion is, you know, we, we go all in. You know, we, I think we've gotten pretty good identifying protein sources. I think people are still confused about where the fiber is and that it accumulates over the course of the day. That it is easy if you, if you start identifying the sources. So a good source of fiber is a third of an avocado, which is a serving of an avocado. And that gets you more than 10% on your way toward your day, you know, and so a few more entries. We tend to think of things like, you know, whole grain toast. Okay, maybe we're avoiding the carbs and then we think of beans and maybe they, we think they give us gas. You know, I mean, whatever the reasons that we think of, you know, core sources of fiber, which, both of those are amazing and I'm not discounting them in the least, but we accumulate it over the course of time. And then like all good, you know, Americans and people all around the world, we sort of go with gusto and we call it fiber maxing and we're like chasing it through supplements again. The, it, it really is the, the fiber. There's two main types we won't go into, you know, soluble, insoluble. There's also prebiotic fibers and things that happen in our gut that can support gut health. And fiber helps with satiety. So when we're looking at something like an avocado, when you add an avocado a day or add a serving and your breakfast, your lunch, your dinner, all of the above if you care to your snacks, you're adding a factor of satiety. And in fact another study that was just, just came out recently and I was so sort of tickled because it, one of the primary investigators is actually my doctoral dissertation advisor, Sujatha Rajaram. And it just came out. This was a feeding trial where individuals were fed for three weeks and then a washout period of two weeks and then fed a three week period again and then, and then swapped. It was a randomized double blind, controlled trial. And what they did is they swapped in avocado in part for added sugars and saturated fat in common foods throughout the day. And I thought this was such a real world scenario. So they swapped it in and not for just like, hey, here's your avocado, eat it. But they include it in muffins, in pesto, in granola, bites and marinades, like throughout the day in various ways during the period, you know, of the test subjects during those three weeks when you were consuming the avocado washout and then the control and then they swapped. What they found was really compelling, that overall indicators were for heart health. Cholesterol went down or what they called it now, now we're more talking about the non hdl because it's a, a package. You know, we used to like exclusively focus on the LDL particle or the bad ones, but now sort of it's the, the whole grouping or package of those lipids went down, the overall lipid profile decreased. And I mean imagine something, you know, as we're pursuing, it's one of the number one things that people are trying to reduce is added sugars. And as we do that, if we swap in something that is satisfying that you know, has other research to back it has the fiber there, all those things come to play and end up helping with heart health, you know, cardiometabolic health over time, which is, I think it's so compelling. I love when mother Nature, you know, so sort of puts out the, the roadmap and scientists come and they make discoveries about, you know, why, why it's so good for us.
- [14:46]
A
You know, everyone agrees we should all eat whole foods and stay away from ultra processed foods. And when you get to the, the why it's nutrient density. A calorie is not a, all calories are not equal. And then the, the bigger idea of satiety what you just touched on. Healthy fat and fiber are critical not only for longevity, heart health, your. Your health of your bowels, colon health, but they're gonna keep you full. You are less likely to overeat, overconsume. And integrating an avocado even into this is what I've experienced in a meal that, like, maybe isn't the ideal meal. You're just in a better place with that meal as it relates to blood glucose, everything, the fat and fiber are meaningful.
- [15:32]
B
It's absolutely true. I mean, I think it's meaningful also because, you know, the. The diet you'll stay on is the diet that's enjoyable and not too hard, you know, not too much of a heavy lift, obviously. Right. So I think that avocados are sort of have something unique. And this is where I like to talk about a lot of our, you know, whole foods. And they're either, you know, their nutrient properties, their scientific properties, their versatility, and their flavor. And I think avocados are interesting because they can go sweet or savory. They can stand out and be avocado toast or guacamole, but they can be integrated into things. Also, you know, there's some, you know, either as a favorite chocolate mousse. Chocolate avocado mousse. And we sort of, you know, like, didn't even. We. We used to not even include the avocado. And by we. I used to work at a destination spa and resort where we had chocolate mousse on the menu. And avocado was the thing that made it creamy. It hid in the cocoa, it brought on the creamy. The flavor of avocado is delightful, and I love it on its own. I eat it with a spoon. I've got an avocado guy that delivers to me, but it also can hide very well in sweet and savory. So it is something that can be integrated nicely. And then it's got like that staying power that you were talking about that helps us enjoy the meal and not feel like we're ready to eat the coffee table two hours later, a hundred percent.
- [16:59]
A
And I kind of live by the 80, 20 rule and that 80%, I'm pretty dialed in. And. And that's a lot of avocados. But when I veer off and I'm going to enjoy a meal, I always make sure I get a little. I get a little bit of protein. But then also, avocados are a great way, like getting that healthy fiber and fat with the avocados just makes that quote, unquote, I Hate to say cheat, but more of that treat meal just have a less significant impact on me in terms of how much I consume my blood sugar. Everything.
- [17:33]
B
Right. I mean, some of these, you know, I, I really appreciate you saying that because me too. I don't, I, I want to have my treat guilt free. You know, I, I don't even think in, in those terms. And, and like you, I struggle with the word cheat because I feel like that's like trying to bypass, you know, or trying to take a shortcut. Whereas, like, success is about active choices in your day that like, enable the freedom of mind as well as like freedom of choice, you know, so I'm, I'm on the same page with you there. And I think, you know, we have only the opportunities to sort of figure out. I mean, it's fun. I love science. So I read the scientific papers and I think it's so compelling. I mean, there were studies several years ago that showed as little as one avocado a week showed significant benefit to cardio, metabolic and cardiovascular health factors. You know, so it's, it's not even about like big changes, but if you get, you know, plus bonuses in other ways, you can, you can certainly incorporate it more without guilt and without negative impact. I mean, what we're seeing is benefit all around.
- [18:43]
A
Well, building off the benefits, you know, there's this idea that what you eat with your nutrients matters as much as the nutrients themselves. So can you talk a little bit about how dietary fat, and you've kind of touched on this, but how, how specifically dietary fat influences the absorption of those important nutrients?
- [19:01]
B
Yeah, it's one of my favorite topics. I mean, it's sort of like part bioavailability, it's part synergy, which is a word I just love in life in general. I think we're all better together. I've spoken about that in greater ways than a food scenario. But I think that where some of you know, the value of what we see with food synergy is that we don't eat single nutrients, certainly. And we know that they're interesting to study and we have to get granular sometimes in the research, like, what do they do and how do they impact blood markers, et cetera. We don't even eat single foods. So I'm not here saying like your breakfast, lunch and dinner aren't an avocado. It's about where they play well with others and what dietary fat does. And this applies to all fat. It's that saturated fat we have to watch and reduce the percent of total calories so that we don't increase risk factors. But dietary fat helps the absorption of some key nutrients. Avocados in particular, they. They marry very nicely with a number of foods that also have carotenoids. And carotenoids are a class of phytochemical. And when you put an avocado, and lutein is one of them, which is in an avocado. But when you put avocado, say in a salad or in something that has carrots or in a smoothie, which, yes, it can go beautifully into a smoothie, anything that has carotenoids, it boosts the level of those phytochemicals like the antioxidants and carotenoids. So I have this salad, actually. I call it a wacky salad. Just as popping to mind, I wasn't planning on bringing up today, I call it a wacky salad. And it's all about synergy. So wacky just reminds me what's in it. It's a little wacky, but it's delicious. It's walnuts, avocado, carrots and currants. There's two Cs there, Kale. And then I add Y for yum because it is that delicious with a vinaigrette dressing. And really that salad itself, the avocado, once massaged into the kale, sort of makes the cells break open of the kale and the vitamin K in the kale comes out. The carrots have those carotenoids. It's like Synergy Salad. Maybe I should rename it that. But the idea is it's really like, it's more. You know, that when we put certain foods together, you literally get more. Which I think is just. I think it's amazing. And I think that the more we hear about combinations that happen like that, it makes food even a little more fun.
- [21:45]
A
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- [22:02]
B
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A
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- [22:14]
A
See terms. So I Am dedicated to my smoothie, which always has an avocado. But I'm curious, what's, like, the most surprising way to integrate avocados into a meal? What. Have you seen? What's. What's blown your mind?
- [22:28]
B
Yeah. You know what I think? I think sort of in the dessert space, I think it's surprising to some, you know, incorporating them into, like, a brownie instead of, you know, removing or a partial substitution with. For butter, for example, or oil. If you use oil in a brownie, I think in a chocolate avocado mousse, it's sort of interesting. You can make, like, energy bites. Like, no bake energy bites. I have sort of a recipe, and there's a recipe on the Loved One Today website also for different kinds of, like, protein bites. You know, if you're craving protein, that sort of the functional side of avocado comes to play. So, you know, nutrients and nutrient density and all that being, you know, first and how we incorporate it throughout our day. But it's also like the glue, you know, I mean, it. It holds things together. It helps create more, you know, retain moisture. It bakes well. Like, those kinds of things, I think are pretty cool and surprising about avocados.
- [23:28]
A
So I'll give you one. We used to do an event. Well, we still do the event. The event's called Revitalize, and now we do it here in Miami, but we used to do it in Arizona, and it was an event. We took over the. The Ritz Carlton Dumb Mountain in Arizona. And on the menu, we had avocado fries.
- [23:48]
B
Interesting.
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A
Yes. They were baked.
- [23:51]
B
Tell me more.
- [23:53]
A
Yeah, so we. We found. It was like, an almond flour, and we found a way to fry them. It wasn't vegetable oil. It was like. It was an alternative. I want to say it was like a combo of, like, Coke, like, maybe olive oil, and something else. We found a way to do it and, like, slightly. It was like a. It was a hybrid of, like, baking and frying. That kind of worked. And they were avocado fries, and they were absolutely delicious. And everyone wants bananas for these.
- [24:26]
B
Wow, that's great. I. I would like that recipe or I'd like to try it out, certainly. That does sound really, really fun. Were they green when they were finished? They have green hue or.
- [24:37]
A
Yeah, but they were fried. They. They had like, an. With like, a almond or chickpea flour. It's like. But they were. They were crispy, and they were just the best thing ever. So avocado pride.
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B
That is surprising. And I'm on Board. I mean, I think that's great. Well, you know what, I think this underscores really. So often I'll hear when people are trying to figure out avocados, they'll start, you know, they'll have seen it, you know, or tried avocado toast or certainly, you know, sort of the. The goat of avocado is guacamole. Right? Um, people think, you know, avocados are guacamole, or you mash an avocado and it's guacamole. And I think what you've already pointed to, and hopefully some of the things that I've mentioned, show that it really can fit any part of our day and in kind of interesting ways because of its, like, sort of functional, the functionality of it, you know, like, because it. Because of its consistency and how it can be peeled and sliced and how it can, of course, play an important role in helping our health. So I think we, we need to lead with, like, we, we should eat more avocados. And, you know, it shows health benefits in these variety of ways, but look how versatile it really can be. And I think sort of pigeonholing avocados to guacamole or even avocado toast is like, you know, making a. It's similar to like tomatoes and ketchup. You know, it's true that tomatoes are only good as ketchup, which we know is so far from the truth.
- [26:13]
A
And look, for me, I come back to fiber. It's so top of mind for people because we're not getting it. You had the stat. Only 6% of us are getting fiber. And I'm not. I'm trying to, you know the math better than I do. One whole avocado gets you how much of your daily fiber intake?
- [26:31]
B
One third of an Avocado gets you 3 grams and a good source. So if you ate a whole avocado, just like the research suggests, then you're going to get an excellent source. So you get 9 grams on your way to your 25 to 35 grams per day.
- [26:45]
A
Feel like a third of the way there.
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B
Yeah, it's significant contribution over the course of the day. You know, there was another study that just came out recently, and a lot of people are concerned or are watching, you know, their blood sugar or their relationship to blood sugar, doing sort of the continuous glucose monitoring and all these kinds of things these days. And really, you know, I'm not ringing in on that today, but there is a study that just was just published in Current Developments in Nutrition. And this was a Study that was a secondary analysis of that trial that was over the six month time period. And what they found was that they evaluated the glycemic load of the diet by the inclusion of avocado on a daily basis over time. And glycemic index and glycemic load are a little obscure. People talk in that language. But I, you know, it's, it's really a very good research tool. It's a little less easy to understand in the real world, but effectively what they found over the course of one large avocado daily, so that, you know, those nine grams of fiber and the unsaturated fat and all that by consuming that, is that the glycemic load of the overall diet, which is the contribution of blood sugar over time in our meals, it's in impacted by how we prepare and what foods we put together, was 14 points lower. It was statistically significant, but also clinically relevant, which also sort of attends to the satiety thing. Again, blood sugar balance and glycemic load has been associated not only with glycemic response. This thing that people are tracking and consider considering, but lower risk of type 2 diabetes and other cardiometabolic risk factors. Heart disease, we're talking there as well.
- [28:38]
A
Well, metabolic dysfunction is very real and I've read the numbers, but it's less than 10% or 12% of us are actually metabolically healthy. And nutrition is one of the most powerful levers we have for maintaining our metabolic health. And then you come back to, well, what makes a difference? What, what can, what can wreak Re. Re havoc. It's glucose, blood sugar out of whack. Well, how, how can we do better there? It's exactly what you just said. It's a hell of a lot easier.
- [29:11]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [29:12]
A
What I love about it too is it's about adding, not deleting. Right. A lot easier to say I'm gonna add an avocado or I'm gonna, you know, add some healthy fat and fiber versus I can't have this anymore.
- [29:26]
B
I am a hundred percent with you on born that out. I mean, and, and not new, new research. It's been coming for a long time, but increasingly, not only do people like to hear a positive like what what should I eat? You know, versus what shouldn't I eat? But that this kind of addition to our day choices that we make. You know, I speak very often about time. I have, you know, sort of something, I teach about 1,000 waking minutes that we live every day. Because if we get the Sleep that we're supposed to sleep. Granted, we don't get it every day, but for supporting our heart health and diabetes risk and all the other things, longevity, then we're left with about a thousand waking minutes every day. And within those minutes we have our obligations, our work, all the errands, all the stuff. But we have a lot of choice. And when we can add simple things, when we can add delightful things, flavorful things into our pattern that literally impact our health in a concrete way, not just, you know, in the future, because it's nice to hear, you know, I'm 10 years down, your risk for heart disease will be reduced. But right now, and when it comes to cardio metabolic control, there are some things that happen immediately. And people who do measure it can see that the choices they make, meal to meal, has an immediate impact. And you can just, you know that even some of the exercises, small amounts of exercise, walking after a meal, immediately impact your blood sugar response. And I think it's compelling and I think it's much more approachable to have a plus message than the minus.
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A
Have the avocado mousse go for a 15 minute walk. You're. You're gold.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So some, something I want to unpack and you made this distinction earlier and I'm thinking about it now. Serving size and portion size. There's a lot of confusion here, including myself, what is the difference between serving size and portion size and why does that distinction matter?
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B
Yeah, this has been something that I've actually enjoyed talking about over the years. And I mean, when I published one of my first books, so it dates back 15, 16, 17 years now,
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A
I
- [31:39]
B
insisted on us talking about that within the book. And Rodale at the time was my publisher, was my publisher for a couple books. And they were sort of like, oh, we need to save space and not really talk about that. And people get it. And I was like, no, they don't. This is a very important topic. So I, I boil it down fairly simply. A serving size is a standard of measure. It allows us to compare, you know, like, how much are we talking about? And I'll start there and we can come back to a specific and use avocados as an example. But a serving, you know, on a box, a serving size will say like half a cup of this or X number of ounces, which is a little harder in the Americas mindset because we don't always have scales handy, but a certain measurement and it's a standard so that we get like a benchmark on how much, if we pour this much or we portion this much out. I shouldn't use portion. If we slice this much off, are we getting. It's a standard of measure. A portion is how much you eat. A portion is what you choose, Jason. Or what I choose and what I. Based on what I had for breakfast and now it's lunch and what I'm having later for dinner, and what I know about myself and what my activity level is, it's how much I take. So in the most simplistic way, and I think simplistic is good here, a portion is how much you eat. You might eat 2 servings. You might eat one serving. You might eat half a serving. Examples being if you eat a whole avocado, a third of an avocado for measurement, when you look at the. The charts and when people put that out there, a third of an avocado is considered a serving. If you eat the amount that. In the. The studies that I mentioned, the HAT trial and others that were supported by the Avocado Avocado Nutrition center and really amazing design, one of the, you know, the largest clinical trial on that subject to date, then you're eating three servings. You know, your portion in that case is three servings. If you take peanut butter, I think that's a good example, too. You look at the jar and it says 2 tablespoons. I find that many people, and I love peanut butter. Many people will take one tablespoon.
- [33:48]
A
Oh, everyone's over. Everyone's overeating, peanut butter. Like, myself included. Like, when I was doing nut butters in my smoothies, there was a period where I was like, oh, my God, I'm eating like, no one's doing this serving. No one's doing it.
- [34:03]
B
Yeah, exactly. So the portion could be higher or the portion could be lower. But when you're spreading a sandwich, I found the opposite to be true. Like, people think they're like, oh, I can't afford that. Back to that calories and value and, you know, fat, maybe. But when they were actually spreading it, and I'd have them measure it, they're like, oh, I'm actually coming closer to a tablespoon. When I spread it out, you know, off my mind, what I want on a piece of bread, for example, maybe not in the smoothie, not in my
- [34:30]
A
smoothie, not in mine.
- [34:32]
B
Not your smoothie, not your smoothie. But again, you know, the quality of the fat. Like, you know, there's a lot of research on nuts and legumes as well. So, you know, this. This transcends the idea. But serving size is really a standard of measure. I very much encourage people not to get sort of emotional about it. I've seen so many people go like, that's not true, or how, how can that be? I eat this. A serving really doesn't have anything to do with a. Your emotions or really you, except for in the context of how much you eat becomes your portion. And it helps you understand the math behind it.
- [35:07]
A
Yes. Well, I'm glad you clarified for the audience because even I was confused on that. So I'm going to segue to storage. Storage can sometimes be frustrating. Avocados can, you know, maybe go brown. I've learned that avocados and bananas probably don't get along so well when you put them next to each other. But you tell me, how should we best store avocados storage?
- [35:28]
B
You know, I think that avocados are one a unique food that you can buy them. They continue to ripen as you get them. So you can buy them, as my avocado connection tells me, I can get them firm and green. That means that they're hard, you know, just picked. And I can also get them ready to eat so they've gotten darker and softer and they're ready to eat. And I can get a mixed box when I have them. The neat thing about avocados, when you're buying in the store, you can gently touch it and you can buy them along the continuum. But most of the time, because of transportation and getting them there and also giving you, you know, freedom, you buy them and they're a little bit more firm and they'll have a special area if you have a shop that has them that are ripe and ready. I come, I live in Southern California, so I may be an exception where we have that happening. But when they come home, they're firm. Generally speaking, they can stay at room temperature and then they will continue to ripen. If you want to pause, hit pause on the ripening. Then you put them in the refrigerator and you can halt some of it because cooler temperature will keep the avocado from ripening as quickly. And usually I have some, like in various, you know, stages of ripening, and I'm bringing them in and using them if you want to speed up the ripening. And you sort of said, you know, bananas and avocados have a love hate, actually. Love, hate, love, dislike relationship where, you know, bananas, if you put them in a bag, just like apples, and you slice a little apple, they have, they let off ethylene gas and they'll hasten or speed up the ripening of an avocado. But once it's ripe, you know that beautiful, like buttery, you know, you. You slice into it, it's buttery. What's really important about storing it is to refrigerate it, number one, because that will stop some of the continued ripening and halt it. Put something against the surface that will stop or halt or slow oxidation. And that would be something like lemon, like you might do on apples, citrus, for example. Or you can use sort of a plastic wrap and just press it against. Not hard, but press it against the surface. And that basically, and literally just blocks oxygen. If it turns a little bit brown on the surface, then its brown surface can just be sort of scraped off and you've got beautiful green flesh underneath to continue. The one thing I discourage, in fact, I say don't do this. There was. It's. It's sort of faded, I'm happy to say, but people were sort of storing it in water and saying that they would, you know, they could store it submerged in water. And that is a bacterial hazard for sure. And so we don't want to store it submerged in water for sure.
- [38:19]
A
A bag can speed it up, too, right? Putting it like a brown paper bag.
- [38:23]
B
Yes, yes. Because a brown paper bag itself sort of traps its own ethylene gases that are ripening so that they don't. They can't escape. But if you throw in like a couple apple slices or you throw a banana, it will even go a little bit faster.
- [38:36]
A
Interesting. That's a good hack. I think everyone, myself, it's like, how do. Oftentimes it's, how do I speed this up very quickly or how do I slow this down? And so I think those are great tips.
- [38:47]
B
Yeah. And I just, I just keep them on, like, constant purchasing. So I purchase a couple, like, each time I'm at the market. So I don't just, like always just have like, the one bag that I'm waiting to ripen, because that way you can, you know, have them at the ready, because when they're ready, you're more likely to eat them, obviously. And so then we'll get the benefit of them more consistently by having them sort of at these various stages as well.
- [39:11]
A
So in closing, you've seen a lot. And I'm curious if you stripped away all the nutrition noise, what do you know to be true? What. What are three things people should focus on that are actually going to move the needle and improve their health?
- [39:27]
B
I think one of them, you started to Say, before we spend a lot of time thinking about what we should remove from our diets. And I think if avocados are any indicator by the research of just adding a whole avocado and the non impact it had on weight and the beneficial impact it had on quality, then one of them is that it reminds us to put those foods in our diets on a regular basis and look for opportunities to add things that will add value to your health but also be a delicious part of your life. That would be one. The other is, I think that, you know, the 80, 20, you know, however we, however we slice that idea up that we eat patterns of foods, we eat meals on a plate, we put delicious foods together. So in an effort to get some of the nutrients that we're trying to get more of, like fiber or we're trying to increase the quality of our other nutrients, you know, the bioavailability of all them working together. Think about the pattern and how those certain foods can be incorporated into delicious foods that you already love. Because at the end of the day, you know, we eat plates of food over time, hopefully in the company of others, that has a health benefit as well. So I would say that and then I would just, you know, recognize that foods, you know, and today we're talking all about avocados. That science, the, the science that's being done on these foods has real practical implications for our health. Like these are real tangible things. This is not, you know, asking for astronomical change in our diet or studying something so micro that it couldn't be relevant. These are very tangible, real life choices you can make on a regular basis and have the hope, you know, if not the expectation of some of these benefits. Of course you can't generalize the studies and they all have their limitations, but overall it's a pretty, pretty safe to eat more, more avocado, more produce.
- [41:37]
A
With so much conflicting advice out there, I think avocados are one thing that all experts can agree on and personally I love that we're talking about avocados for an episode. They are desert island, healthy fat and fiber. Like, can't live without them. So I am thrilled we're talking about them. Wende, thank you so much.
- [41:58]
B
Thank you, thank you for having me today, Jason, it's been a pleasure.