Love Hurts: The Moth Podcast

Summary

The Moth Podcast

Episode: Love Hurts

Guest Host: Anna Martin

Date: February 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this special Valentine’s Day edition, Anna Martin (host of the Modern Love podcast) guest-hosts The Moth to explore the multifaceted pain and healing in love. The episode features three live, true stories from Moth stages—delivered by Patricia Dunphy, Peter Aguero, and Rita Brent—each highlighting how love can wound, transform, and ultimately connect us. Nestled between the stories are insightful reflections and a candid conversation with longtime Moth director Jennifer Hickson about the art of love storytelling.

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Key Segments and Discussion Points

1. Anna Martin's Introduction

[01:59]–[02:49]

• Anna introduces herself and the episode's theme: "Love Hurts."
• Emphasizes the complex spectrum of love: heartbreak, disaster, and the healing power of connection.
• Sets up the episode's format: three true stories about the agony and resilience of loving.

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2. Story 1: Patricia Dunphy — "Hands Held, Hands Lost"

[02:49]–[07:22]

Summary

• Patricia stands at the bedside of her dying partner, Alan, reflecting on their 20-plus-year love story, bookended by the final, painful moment of letting go.
• Hands become a recurring motif, symbolizing love’s presence through life’s stages—dating, travel, celebrations, illness, and loss.
• Patricia shares the searing pain after Alan's death but expresses eventual gratitude for having experienced such great love and loss.
• Concludes with tender moments of connection with her daughter and granddaughter, signifying enduring love beyond loss.

Notable Quotes

• “I just never thought I could love anybody the way I loved this man, Alan.” — Patricia [02:56]
• “I would get under my dining room table. I wanted to be someplace where something could protect me. I was just in so much pain.” — Patricia [06:28]
• “But I never would have felt that pain if I hadn't felt that love. Without that great love...I wouldn't have had those same feelings on the opposite end of the spectrum.” — Patricia [06:52]
• “My granddaughter crossing the street, she looked up at me not that long ago holding my hand, and she says, ‘Patricia, do you miss Grandpa?’ And I said, ‘Yeah, but there's other hands and there's other love for me to give. And I’m grateful for it.’” — Patricia [07:12]

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3. Reflection: Processing Love Through Storytelling

[07:22]–[15:16]

Anna Martin & Jennifer Hickson in Conversation

• Anna reflects on her work at The Moth, witnessing how turning life’s painful moments into stories helps people process and heal.
• Jennifer discusses the nationwide phenomenon of “Love Hurts” story slams—New York’s tradition of lighthearted heartbreak vs. the Midwest’s epic tales of sorrow.
• Both note how love stories both warn and inspire:
  • “There’s stories to aspire to...and there are the skull and crossbones. Like, gosh, look, all the warning signs.” — Jennifer Hickson [10:35]
• Both laugh about their own convoluted ways of signaling interest or virtue—from reading thick books on the subway to writing checks in public to attract wealthy partners.
• Conclude that while love is messy and can’t be lived with—or without—it's a noble quest that’s always worth it.

Memorable Moments

• Anna reveals her past attempts at literary virtue-signaling while dating:
  • “I was constantly, like, trying to project, I don't know, this version of myself so I could attract the type of person I thought I wanted. And it...worked one time.” [13:49]
• “May I share just something adorable?” — Jennifer [13:11], highlighting the tender camaraderie and history between the two women.
• “You can’t live with [love]. Can’t live without it. You really can’t.” — Anna [15:02]
• “It’s a noble quest. It’s a miserable existence. And it’s totally worth it.” — Jennifer [15:07]

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4. Story 2: Peter Aguero — "Dr. Fine and the Long Shot"

[17:14]–[26:05]

Summary

• Peter recounts a college-era crush on a “Dr. Fine” (Sarah), a promising, athletic, and beautiful woman he meets in a sketch comedy troupe.
• He humorously describes his awkward approach to dating: endless failed first dates and convoluted logic to ask out women.
• At a party, emboldened (and tipsy), he repeatedly flirts with Sarah, stacking up boasts:
  • “Dr. Fine, you should come home with me tonight. I gotta tell you, I’m very skilled. I have references. And these are the kind of women that stay up late. We could call them right now.” — Peter [22:51]
• Despite bravado, nothing happens that night. But he later asks her out, leading to a magical 18-hour first date.
• Years later, wryly acknowledges life’s unpredictability in relationships but celebrates enduring partnership with “Dr. Fine,” who’s still waiting for him at home.

Notable Quotes

• “I was the party marines. I was the first in, first drunk, last to leave. That’s the way I ran my life.” — Peter [17:18]
• “There are people in your life who are co-stars, and there’s people in your life that are just kind of like cameos and people that show up for one or two seasons and then go move on to something else.” — Peter [25:31]
• “But tomorrow when I get on a plane...and I walk in, she’s going to be sitting on the couch waiting for me to get home.” — Peter [25:57]

Memorable Moment

• Peter’s mix of self-deprecating humor and wistful nostalgia captures the nervous, improvisational drama of falling in love in young adulthood.

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5. Story 3: Rita Brent — "Lesbian Rita, GI Joe, and Freeing Love"

[27:00]–[38:57]

Summary

• Rita recounts marrying a “mighty good man” (her Army bandmate “GI Joe”) in Mississippi—a marriage both a celebration and an attempt to “find salvation” from her true self as a gay woman in the evangelical South.
• Hilarious misadventures ensue (a stripper at her bachelorette party is a church member’s husband, “very ashy”), juxtaposed with deeper struggles between duty, faith, shame, and self-acceptance.
• After her marriage unravels, she comes out publicly for the first time on stage, in front of 500 people and her own mother:
  • “The real reason me and my husband got divorced is because I forgot to tell him I liked women.” — Rita [35:36]
• Eventually, she meets Frida (“Free”), a vibrant artist who helps both Rita and her mother find freedom and acceptance, culminating in a Zoom wedding and genuine familial acceptance.

Notable Quotes

• On her mother’s reaction when she first came out at 16:
  • “She said, ‘Okay, baby, I don’t quite understand. I’m not sure that I condone it, but I will never love you any less.’” — Rita [31:38]
• “I’m a living witness that people in the church, even though they are supposed to love, can be the distributors of the deepest hurt.” — Rita [34:22]
• “I’m tired of making decisions for others’ comfort. This is my story to tell and my truth.” — Rita [36:37]
• “Not only had I married a woman who was free, the same woman had finally freed my mother and me. Love wins again.” — Rita [38:48]

Memorable Moments

• The bachelorette party gone wrong, complete with an “ashy” church-member stripper. [29:18]
• Her mother’s silent but supportive presence at Rita and Frida’s Zoom wedding, capped by a tangible act of acceptance (“Gucci soap”) [38:10].

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Episode Takeaways

• Love’s Suffering Is Universal and Transformative: Each storyteller paints love not as a smooth journey, but as something filled with vulnerability, persistence, and profound meaning—even in heartbreak.
• Storytelling as Healing: Anna and Jennifer underscore the cathartic power of transforming personal pain into communal stories, finding universality in individual experience.
• Acceptance and Growth: Rita’s narrative, in particular, highlights the struggle and eventual triumph of self-acceptance, family reconciliation, and the broadening of what “normal” love looks like.

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [01:59] Anna Martin’s welcome and episode theme
• [02:49] Patricia Dunphy: A partner lost, love endures
• [07:22] Reflection: The power of love stories, Anna & Jennifer Hickson
• [17:14] Peter Aguero: A college crush, persistence, and lifelong partnership
• [27:00] Rita Brent: Coming out, healing, and redefining family
• [38:57] Anna’s closing and credits

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Tone and Style

The episode moves with warmth, frank humor, and tenderness throughout. The live stories blend laughter and tears, while Anna’s interludes offer both thoughtful reflection and witty self-disclosure. The candid discussion with Jennifer Hickson adds behind-the-scenes insight into the community of The Moth and affirms that, while “love hurts,” it also connects us—making the messy, brave act of loving worth it.

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For those interested in similar stories or to pitch your own, visit The Moth’s website.

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Happy Valentine’s Day—from The Moth!
“We hope that love doesn’t hurt you too much.” [39:33]

Transcript

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[Anna Martin]

Hi, I'm Anna Martin. I'm the host of the Modern Love Podcast for the New York Times, and today it is my total treat to guest host this special Valentine's Day episode of the Moth. In honor of this holiday, which, depending on the status of your love life, might be your least favorite or your most favorite day of the year, we're featuring three stories, all about how much love can hurt, about all the pain and heartache and disaster that true love can lead to, but also about how love can help ease that pain and heartache and maybe even help us heal. First up is Patricia Dunphy who told this story at a New York City story slam, where the theme was, appropriately enough, love Hurts. An annual audience favorite for over 15 years at our open mic nights, here's Patricia live at the Mouth.

[Patricia Dunphy]

So I stood next to his bed, and I put both of his hands in my hands. And, you know, he had really fine hands. Really, he was just a true guy. I just never thought I could love anybody the way I loved this man, Alan. And I wanted to move my hands away because he was starting to get cold, and I didn't want to hold them when they were ice cold, but it was so hard to think that I was never going to hold his hands again. And I took my hands away. You know, our relationship started about a little over two decades before that. You know, we were Both just around 50 years old, and we started dating in Manhattan, and it was like I was a teenager. It was so great. You know, we would go to the movies, we'd go out to dinner. So finally, when I realized we were going to be together, I just grabbed his hand and I held onto that hand for two decades. You know, sometimes we would walk around the Upper west side, and I would say to myself, don't be too cocky, you know, like, because people would look at us because we really did look good together. I have to say, he was a gorgeous guy. And I would think, you know, because we would see people with walkers or wheelchairs, and I thought that could be us one day. But in. It was. But much sooner than we ever thought. So there I was then, walking next to the wheelchair. We had a caregiver then go down a riverside drive and sit in the park. And I would hold his hand while he was in the wheelchair. And I would sit there while he was fading. He got struck by a glioblastoma, which is a terminal brain cancer. It's a horrible disease. And that's what happened. And I would sit there and I would think about all the time as we. We held hands walking around. You know, we walked around. We went to Israel. He wanted to tell me all about, you know, his young dreams that he had of being a socialist and living on a kibbutz. Then we went to Ireland after that. And I can picture us holding hands in Thailand and Costa Rica and Mexico on family vacations. There's pictures of us holding hands at his daughter's wedding and. And my daughter's college graduation. We even held hands walking behind his grandchildren in Jersey City as they went trick or treating. And eventually, we were holding hands on York Avenue in Manhattan, where you have Sloan Kettering and Weill, Cornell and nyu. Just searching for a cure which wasn't there. And then he passed. And then I didn't know what to do with my hands. My hands just flailed. I mean, I can't. The pain. Love hurts. The pain of losing him was so excruciating. I mean, there were times when I couldn't get out of my apartment, but I would get under my dining room table. I wanted to be someplace where something could protect me. I was just in so much pain. I learned what the word keening meant. It's an Irish term for wailing and mourning. But then after a year, a little over a year, and I started to come back out smiling again, sometimes laughing, I got this sense of gratitude. And I really couldn't explain it to people so much because how could you be grateful after all the pain you went through? But I never would have felt that pain if I hadn't felt that love. Without that great love that I felt for him, I wouldn't have had those same feelings on the opposite end of the spectrum. And I was grateful that I've gotten to live my life and had that on both sides. A great love and a great loss. And I got through it. And, you know, and now there'll be other hands I can hold. Not too long ago, I was in the car with my daughter and we drove past something that reminded me of him. And I started to cry. And she reached over and it's kind of uncharacteristic. She's really not that affectionate with me anyway. She has lots of boyfriends and girlfriends out there, but I'm sure she touches them. But anyway, she did reach over and put her hand in mine, and I was like, oh, this is something. And then my little granddaughter crossing the street, she looked up at me not that long ago holding my hand, and she says, patricia, do you miss Grandpa? And I said, yeah, but there's other hands and there's other love for me to give. And I'm grateful for it. Thanks.

[Anna Martin]

That was New York City's own Patricia Dunphy. Patricia is a mother, grandmother, aunt, friend and fulfilled executive by day who continues to write and tell stories. Most recently, she's been on the stage for Generation Women Talking Secrets and is a two time moth story slam winner. So Patricia's story got me thinking about how we process love, about the love stories we tell ourselves, and about how we use narrative to make sense of our relationships. I've thought about this a lot before I was the host of The Modern Love podcast. I actually worked at the Moth. It was my first job out of college. I helped run the story pitch line. I traveled across the country producing mainstage shows. I loved this job. But some of my very favorite memories didn't happen on stage. They happened in the rehearsals before the show. I got to witness people actively process their experiences, work through their feelings, and by turning them into a story and by refining that story over and over each time they told it. I think there's so much power in that process, and it was an honor to witness each time. We'll have two more love stories in just a bit, but first, to explore that strange and messy interaction between love and stories, I'm joined by one of my favorite Moth directors, Jennifer Hickson. Jennifer, welcome.

[Jennifer Hickson]

Well, thank you. Hello, Anna Martin. It's thrilling to see you back in our offices.

[Rita Brent]

We.

[Jennifer Hickson]

We have missed you and we're incredibly proud of you.

[Anna Martin]

Wow. I'm very moved by that. It feels like coming home. It's just so much bigger than it used to be. Okay, Jennifer, I know that Love Hurts, which is the theme of this episode, has been a theme of many, many story slams over the years. Tell me about some experiences at those slams.

[Jennifer Hickson]

Well, I'd say that I think it's been at least two decades that has been our best attended slam every single year. People love to come and talk about the boo boos of the heart, and we have a great time with it. Funny regional thing in New York City where I experienced most of the love Hurts story slams. Yeah, there's sad stuff, but we have a good time now out in the Midwest. I don't want to call you out Madison, but the producer in Madison said, why do we do this Love Hurts? Because apparently people come and they just bring staggering heartbreak.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, my God. Midwest, emo. I mean, that's a thing.

[Jennifer Hickson]

Yes.

[Anna Martin]

Wow.

[Jennifer Hickson]

And I'm like, you're kidding. In New York, it's a hoot.

[Anna Martin]

What about on the West Coast? Let's just go, you know, across the country sort of.

[Jennifer Hickson]

I think they're enjoying the pain of the pain. They're enjoying the pain over on the West.

[Anna Martin]

What do you think it is about? Well, anyway, we can keep that pondering.

[Jennifer Hickson]

It's like below zero there. Maybe.

[Anna Martin]

Maybe that's why they're just so cold.

[Jennifer Hickson]

They're just so cold.

[Anna Martin]

Huh? You know, doing my job, I think a lot about other people's stories. But of course, inevitably, you know, I think about my own self and similar experiences I might have had or even if, you know, Someone's telling a story that's so radically different from my experience. I don't know. In this specific, you know, lies the universal. There's always something I can take away. So I'm curious, after how many years of working at the Moth, how many.

[Rita Brent]

Years have you worked?

[Jennifer Hickson]

24.

[Anna Martin]

Incredible.

[Jennifer Hickson]

Something like that.

[Anna Martin]

Incredible. Do you think that working on love stories, shaping them, has influenced the way you experience love in your own life, how you think about it?

[Jennifer Hickson]

Sure. Well, there's stories to aspire to. You know those love stories where you're like, damn, that's what I want. You see that and other people have that, and that's what you want. There are also the. There be dragons, the skull and crossbones. Like, gosh, look, all the warning signs.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Hickson]

And we're so able to see that in other people as they're going, oh, no, back away now. Don't call him back. No, no, don't text him.

[Rita Brent]

It's 2am don't do it. Shoot.

[Jennifer Hickson]

But we. And so, yeah, of course, I heard all those love stories. I took it in. Still not great at love, but enjoying all the attempts and all the.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, yeah. I'm often struck by how valiant is the word that comes to mind. You know, loving someone is just. Cause you can't really get beaten down. But getting back up is beautiful and human and it takes a lot. I've, like, been in a relationship when I've hosted the show. I've been single. I've, like, gone through a breakup while, you know, working on these love stories. And for me, I think one of the greatest gifts of doing that work and being surrounded by love stories all the time is just the massive perspective it gives me. I'm like, wow. I really do know that I'm gonna be okay. And that knowing that as a just fundamental truth, like, it will be okay, has been extremely useful for me.

[Jennifer Hickson]

Wow.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah. I do still text at 2am, though. I'm not gonna. I mean, you know, I'm not perfect.

[Jennifer Hickson]

No, there's something I. When somebody tells me they're really heartbroken, I feel like they're in a very special space. I mean, there is a little. There's something beautiful about it too.

[Anna Martin]

Yes.

[Jennifer Hickson]

There's a reason we don't do the theme Love is Beautiful because it would be. It would eventually get annoying. You know, people who are in love, it's great to hear it for a while, but after a while you're like, all right, all right. Moving along. I don't need to hear all that.

[Anna Martin]

So true.

[Jennifer Hickson]

But we love to. We love to savor the pain. But you're sharing something with a great. With half the world at any given time.

[Anna Martin]

Totally.

[Jennifer Hickson]

When you're hurting also.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, I think it's a very creative space almost. It's very generative. You're extremely raw. I don't know, I feel like a nerve in the wind. I'm like, when I'm really sad, I'm open to all these experiences just because I don't have the energy to put a wall up. And also, I think going through hard stuff, it's how you learn. If you have a beautiful relationship with no problems. I mean, good for you. Tell me where you found that person. But, you know, it is through the hard stuff that we learn how to be better partners, lovers, anything.

[Jennifer Hickson]

May I share just something adorable. I remember you told me, oh, gosh, years ago when you worked here. That's so cute. But maybe you wouldn't want to share this. But you told me when I go on the subway, I always have to have a paper book in front of me because I want to attract somebody who reads. And if I'm just looking at my phone, I'm just going to look like a dummy who's just scrolling things. I read and I read big, thick, intense books and I want someone else who reads books. And I just loved that little signaling that you did.

[Anna Martin]

It's so sweet. And by the way, you know, almost 10 years later, I'm on my phone. Yeah.

[Jennifer Hickson]

Looking at books.

[Anna Martin]

I'm on my phone, I'm looking at my emails. My goodness. I mean, getting older. But that is so. I do not remember saying that to you, but I do remember doing that. I was constantly, like, trying to project, I don't know, this version of myself so I could attract the type of person I. I thought I wanted. And it didn't actually. It worked one time. I remember one guy was like, I'm reading that too. And it was like Dostoevsky. And it's like, of course you are. You know what I mean? He was kind of the guy that would be reading that. But so it was actually successful one time. But yeah, I think, you know, in the time since I've had like beautiful relationships that I've also, you know, hurt in some ways. Love hurts. But I think ultimately I've gotten a bit more comfy with who I am and maybe I don't need to be virtue signaling my literary capacities, but I should read more. Now I'm like, I've gone too far the other way. And I'm just on my phone too much.

[Jennifer Hickson]

That's why when I'm on the train, I just, I be writing checks, you know? Cause I'm like, I want a rich guy.

[Anna Martin]

$1 million.

[Jennifer Hickson]

$1 million. That's so funny.

[Anna Martin]

I'm just counting my money. Yeah, totally, man. Love. What do you think?

[Jennifer Hickson]

I mean, you can't live with it. Can't live without it.

[Anna Martin]

That's exactly what I was gonna say. Can't live with it. Can't live without it. You really can't live without it?

[Jennifer Hickson]

No, you can't. It's a miserable existence. It's a noble quest.

[Anna Martin]

It's a noble quest. It's a miserable existence. And it's totally worth it.

[Jennifer Hickson]

Amen.

[Anna Martin]

Amen. Jennifer Hickson, thank you so much.

[Jennifer Hickson]

Anna Martin, thank you so much for coming back to the Moth offices where we love and miss you.

[Rita Brent]

Aw, love you guys too.

[Jennifer Hickson]

Yay.

[Anna Martin]

Up next, two more stories about how love can hurt. Back in a moment.

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[Anna Martin]

Welcome back. Our next story is from Peter Aguero, who Told this when he was hosting a main stage. Here's Peter live at the Moth.

[Peter Aguero]

I'm in college. It's the end of a party. I'm at a post show party at my friend Laura's house, New Brunswick, New Jersey. I'm kind of attending Rutgers University at the time. It's the mid-90s. It's the end of the party. I just got the out of the keg and my flask had like two swallows of whiskey left. I figured I had about 20 minutes before I had to leave. At the time of my life, I was the party marines. I was the first in, first drunk, last to leave. That's the way that I ran my life. My uniform was usually a Hawaiian shirt. It was a confusing time, not just for me, but for everyone I knew. And then I'm sitting on this couch, this filthy couch with my friend Laura had taken from a curb a couple weeks before. And she walks in the room and I'm just blown away. And I say to her, here we go. I gotta do it. Now's the time. And I look up and I say, hey, Dr. Fine, why don't you come over here and sit on my lap? I know, I know. Listen, man, I was a shy kid growing up. I was a big kid. I was like the Ferdinand, the Bull, you know what I mean? Just like too big in a body. It shouldn't have been. It was just trouble. I was very nervous around everyone, particularly women. But the only people I ever wanted to talk to were women my whole life. Because I've always been a misandrist. I don't trust men. I don't want to be around them. So, like, women was just nice. And then, you know, then you just. Your heart, you know what I mean? So by the time I got to college, what I figured is I got to make this work, right? I can't just continue like this. So what I'm going to start to do is I'm going to ask out every woman in all my classes just to see what happens. And it was just one abject failure after another, which that's important. You have to fail to succeed in life. So what I figured out as I went along was that instead of just asking a woman out, I would ask them if I could ask them out sometime. And that would confuse the moment just enough that they would say, okay. And then I would later ask them out and they would say yes, because they already kind of think they said yes. And then we would go on a terrible first date and I didn't Know what to talk about. And I was so nervous because the stakes were so high and not a lot of second dates and never one of those third dates. I never have one of those. Well, it's my business. So when I got to college, I started doing sketch comedy and plays and a lecture hall with a bunch of other idiots. And we were doing this show called Comic Relief. It was sketches. It was Saturday Night Live and Kids in the hall sketches. We perform for charity and we give the money away. And one of the directors in the show is this woman named Sarah. She was on the crew team. She had big shoulders, it was nice, you know what I'm saying? And she was man, beautiful, funny, smart, everything. And we were both cast in a version of six degrees of separation, which a bunch of 19 year old kids should not be doing. It's inappropriate. And about the ennui of middle age and what is. You know what I mean? Come on. We didn't know. But she was in a gender swap casting. She was cast as the character Dr. Fine and the name worked. And I just had always referred to her, to her face as Dr. Fine since then. But she had. Sarah had had her high school sweetheart and he was going to Johns Hopkins and he was what mothers call a catch, not the Hawaiian shirt guy. And I'm not what any mother wants. Like I'm a throwback. I'm. That was a fun night, but you know, settle down. That was me. But so, you know, she was there, she's directing one of the directors in this sketch comedy show that we're doing. And I had been on so many poor dates, it wasn't working. And this was the time I was going to try to find it. And so she walks in the room, I say, Dr. Fine, why don't you come over here and sit on my lap? And here's the thing, she does. And she comes over and she sits down on my ample lap and we're talking about school. I'm asking her about crew practice, I'm asking her about this show. We're talking about everything. And then I say, this is what they call now. They call shooting your shot. This is one word, one phrase for whether I said, Dr. Fine, you should come home with me tonight. And she says, really? She says, I have to wake up early in the morning. I have crew practice. I said, Dr. Fine. I have two alarm clocks. And she says, well, my roommate listens to music while I'm sleeping. I'm so used to listening to music. I said, Dr. Fine, I have a five disc CD changer. I have John Coltrane, I have Miles Davis. I think we're okay. And she takes that in, and then she says, well, I get very cold at night. I said, Dr. Fine, my mother sent me to college with a down comforter. Also, I'm a cuddler. And I don't know if you can tell, but I generate a lot of heat. And so she just kind of nods her head, and I'm waiting for her answer, and she says, can you excuse me one moment? I have to use the bathroom. And she walks off. And her co director was this kid named Brian. He was on the ultimate Frisbee team. He looked a little bit like a frog. And he says to me, he's looking at me, he can't believe what's happening. He says, does that usually work? And I just wink at him because I'd never done it before. Like, I never. I'd never really tried, you know. And so he was impressed. And so she comes back and she sits on my lap, and I. And I. And I go all in. I push all my chips in the middle of the table. I say, Dr. Fine, you should come home with me tonight. I gotta tell you, I'm very skilled. I have references. And these are the kind of women that stay up late. We can call them right now. I promise that we'll have a good time. And she just laughs and she kisses me on the cheek and she walks out of the party. And I guess what I really wanted that night was to go home alone, because that's what I did. And I went home. And the next morning I wake up and there's that feeling, you know, that feeling, you remember that feeling when he said the thing you shouldn't have said? Well, I said 10 of them. And we had one more show, so I had to see her one more time. So I walk into the lecture hall, that we turn into a theater, and I'm sitting at the front of the stage. And I hope she doesn't see me. I hope she doesn't see me. However, she walks in and she sees me because I'm the size of a teenage hippopotamus and I have a Hawaiian shirt on. And you know what I mean? I don't make myself exactly forgettable. And she walks down the long aisle right in front of me, and I say, hey, Sarah, how are you? Good afternoon. How was practice? And she goes, it was fine. She says, you know, Peter, you got me to thinking last night. And I said, well, what do you say, Dr. Fine? Would it be okay If I asked you out sometime and she got confused and she said, I guess that would be okay. And I said, great. And then a couple weeks later, I asked her out. We went on a date and that date lasted 18 hours. It was great. She forgot her keys. She needed a place to stay. And that was 1997, that was 28 years ago. And life turns in all kinds of different directions as you get older and you get wiser and you start to look back at things, you realize that there are people in your life that are co stars and there's people in your life that are just kind of like cameos and people that show up for one or two seasons and then go move on to something else. And life goes all kinds of ways. And this is 28 years later and she could be anywhere tonight. She could be, I don't know, hanging out with friends or going to a dance class or like being on a bus, I don't know. And like I'm here with you guys and that's just the way life had gone and the way it happened. But tomorrow when I get on a plane and I land in laguardia and I take the cab back to the place in Astoria and I walk in, she's going to be sitting on the couch waiting for me to get home.

[Anna Martin]

That was Peter Aguero. Peter was born and raised in the wilds of South Jersey and he's been working with the moth since 2007 as a storyteller, host, instructor and staff clergy. He makes his home in Queens with his wife, Dr. Fine. So I recently asked someone out for the very first time in my 31 years of life. I know, long overdue. And I was struck by just how nerve wracking it is. It's like intellectually I knew it wasn't that big a deal, but it felt like one. It was reaching out, it was vulnerable. It was putting my heart on the line. So I hope Peter's story and my own little mini story inspire you to ask someone out today. If you feel so moved, do it for you. Our final story is from Rita Brent. Rita told this at a New York City main stage where the theme was don't look Back. Here's Rita live at the Moth.

[Rita Brent]

April 13, 2013. I married an amazing man in the deep south of Florence, Mississippi. Our wedding colors were Tiffany blue and white. And 300 guests were in attendance to witness the binding of our love. I think I knew at least 97 of those guests. The rest were my mother's guests, her church members and co Workers and friends. I think she wanted everybody to see her baby on that special day. Part of me thinks she was excited that I was getting married for the first time. And the other part of me thinks she was relieved that somebody else would finally be financially responsible for me. I met my future husband in the army. I'll refer to him as GI Joe. We were both musicians of the Mississippi Army National Guard Band. I was a drummer and, and a sergeant, and he was a wildly gifted trumpeter. I still remember the first day he walked into the band hall. He was muscular and fine as hell. And I said to myself, oh, he can be my drill sergeant any day. I showed interest, he showed interest back, and we fell in love hard and fast. And let's just say that one time at band camp, we did a little bit more than play music. His sweetness and his chivalry overcame me, and I had found the man of my dreams and there was no looking back. Exactly one year after we began dating, he proposed to me in City park in New Orleans. It caught me by surprise because we hadn't talked about marriage before then. But being a woman from the south, you are taught that when a man deems you worthy enough to propose to you, just say yes, no questions asked. So the wedding planning began. Everything leading up to my wedding was perfect, except the bachelorette party from hell. My friends decided at the last minute they were going to throw this party for me. And apparently the only stripper available was the husband of a woman at my church. Yes, my dear church member managed her husband's stripper career and she let him out of retirement this night. So he showed up to my party with a cowboy hat on. He had a beer belly, not one drop of oil on his body. He was very ashy and he was doing the worst body roll I had ever seen in my life. The women in my bridal party couldn't find a dollar to throw at him that night. And thankfully, I never saw him at church again. My wedding ceremony and reception were absolutely epic. At the behest of my mother, I couldn't just walk up to the aisle. We had to do it in style. So I approached the aisle in a white horse drawn carriage. I had a white sweetheart dress on. It was form fitting and my hair had so much spritz. Elvis would have been jealous. We got to the ceremony and it was lighthearted and funny and people cried after our vows. And we got to the reception and I serenaded my new husband with salt and peppers. What a man, what a man, what a man. What A mighty good man.

[Patricia Dunphy]

Yeah.

[Rita Brent]

It was a night to remember. But this wasn't just a typical wedding to me. This was something like a rite of passage, because up until the age of 22, 23, I had never even been with a man. I had only been with women. And this relationship with my husband was the first serious one I had ever had with a man. And before that, I was something like a lesbian Casanova. Yeah, I wore oversized clothes and Allen Iverson braids and Timberlands. And lesbian Rita was a whole vibe. Yeah, still smooth, you know, But I was in the closet because I was in Mississippi, and the only folks who knew about my sexuality were my close friends, of course, the girls I was kicking it with, and my mother. I came out to my mother at the age of 16. We pulled up in the church parking lot, and I felt like that was a safe space. I mean, clearly it was. A whole stripper went to our church. But you got to understand, I wasn't just about to come out to my mother. She's also an ordained minister and a devout Christian. And so I was nervous because for the entirety of my life, my mother has been my whole world. She taught me how to be a musician. She taught me how to be a woman of value, how to be a kind human. I respect and revere her so much that my life's mission has been to not disappoint her. So I was nervous. But we were close and I thought she deserved to know. So I told her, mom, I like girls. She was quiet for a moment, and then she said, okay, baby, I don't quite understand. I'm not sure that I condone it, but I will never love you any less. I shook my head, I said, thank you. And that was the end of that for the time being. But growing up in the Baptist church under Christian doctrine was hard for me because I had same sex feelings. And all I ever heard was the pastor saying that homosexuality was an abomination. God hates that sin in particular, never mind the others. That you are unnatural, you have an unnatural attraction, and that you are going to hell with gasoline drawers on if you do not cleanse yourself of that spirit. And I thought, well, does God not care at all about my heart? So when GI Joe came along and we got married, it felt right to me. I felt like this was my pathway to salvation, that God had sent this man to save me from my wickedness. And finally, God would not hate me anymore, and he would be pleased with me. And I also felt a lot of relief that I was Providing a sense of normalcy to my family, especially my mother, who had done her best to accept me. But what minister wants to be ridiculed for having a lesbian daughter? I wasn't Lesbian Rita to her. I was just her baby. So when GI Joe came along, well, of course she was excited. She was excited because it was a man. And that's how it was the whole time. Every time a boy came along, she was excited. It could have been the pizza boy, or, I mean, he could have looked like the seed of Quasimodo. It was a boy. And she was excited that I was going to have a sense of normalcy. So a few years into my marriage with GI Joe, things took a turn for the worst. We began to love each other less, we were arguing more. And I desperately missed being with women. And Lesbian Rita was on my shoulder every day, like, hey, cuz, the jig is up. This is not your ministry. And she was right. This facade of me being a feminine straight woman serving a man had run its course. And after a couple costly mistakes, we both decided to end the marriage after a couple brief years. And it hit me, damn it, I gotta tell my mom that we're getting divorced. And I thought about this. How do I tell her that the normalcy she had gotten used to was about to come to an end? How do I tell her that her prayers of me being happily married were about to go unanswered again? I could not tell her this verbally, so I sent her an email via aol. Yes, I still have an AOL account. And in the email I said, mom, I am betraying myself by being with this man, that he deserves to be with somebody who can properly serve him, and I deserve to be free. And I knew that she would be crushed because, yes, because of the divorce, but because she would have to deal with the ridicule and the rumors from the church. Folks, I'm a living witness that people in the church, even though they are supposed to love, can be the distributors of the deepest hurt. Some years passed by and Lesbian Rita was still in the closet in Mississippi. And by this time, I was a stand up comedian and I wanted to find my voice on stage. And so I decided that I was just going to come out of the closet on stage during a live show. And so I hosted this big show in my hometown of Jackson, Mississippi, called Sip on this Tea. And boy, did I have some tea for them to sip on. I was at the historic Alamo Theater on Farish street in Jackson, Mississippi, and I was standing before a crowd of 525. I was 40 minutes into my set when I said, the real reason me and my husband got divorced is because I forgot to tell him I liked women. The crowd gasped and they clapped for 20 seconds. And it was the most empowering moment of my life. And then I looked on the front row and there was my mother, possibly crushed again. And after the show, we had a conversation. And she said, you blindsided me. Why didn't you tell me you were going to do that? I said, because you would have tried to talk me out of it. And I'm tired of making decisions for others. Comfort. This is my story to tell and my truth. And she understood. We went through a little moment of awkwardness, but we pushed through it. After my divorce from GI Joe, I decided that I would never be in a serious relationship again. And that's until I met this woman. One night after a comedy show. She walked up to me and she played in my hair. She twisted my curls and she walked away without giving me her name. And I thought, what the hell? So I messaged my boys in the group chat. I said, y' all have to help me find the lady from last night with the big butt and the dreadlocks. So they did. We connected. And me and this woman went on a 13 hour first date. And I learned that her name was Frieda. They call her Free for short. She's from Vicksburg, Mississippi. She has tattoos and piercings everywhere. The opposite of me. She's an award winning visual artist and a ceramicist. She believes God is a woman. She uses rocks as deodorant under her arm. And she is also a vegan. And she's so vegan, she told me that she doesn't mess around with people who eat meat. So I'm a vegan now, And Frida is my wife. We got engaged during the pandemic and we could not get married in person. So we decided to get married on Zoom. And we saved a lot of money by switching to a virtual wedding. My mother was on the call. She was quiet, but she was there. And it's the effort that I've always appreciated that she was willing to have an open heart and an open mind to evolve and to grow. And during the pandemic, my mom and Frida got close. They bonded over food and the Housewives of Whomever was on television at the time. And I said, oh, man, I think this sense of normalcy is happening. But I wasn't sure. And then we had a wedding anniversary and me and Freda went to our favorite hotel and we got there and there were flowers, a card and a gift. We opened the card and it was from my mother and she said, congratulations on another year of love. We opened the box and it was Gucci soap. And I said, this is great. Nothing says acceptance like Gucci soap. But I still wasn't sure. The moment of clarity came one night at a party. I was there. My mother was there, Frieda was there. Frida was dancing to the beat of her own drum. She was dancing by herself. My mother pulled me to the side and said, I really think I like free. And that made me so happy. Because not only had I married a woman who was free, the same woman had finally freed my mother and me. Love wins again. Thank you.

[Anna Martin]

That was Rita Bright. Rita's a musician, military veteran and award winning comedian from Jackson, Mississippi who has appeared on Comedy Central, TruTV and more. She's currently a contributor on the Rickey Smiley Morning show and in 2025 she launched late Night with Rita Brent, which airs locally on Fox 40 WDBD. That brings us to the end of our episode. Thanks so much for joining us. If you want to listen to the Modern Love podcast from the New York Times, you can find us anywhere you get your podcasts. We've got new episodes every Wednesday and from all of us here at the Moth, Happy Valentine's Day. We hope that love doesn't hurt you too much.

[Narrator/Producer]

Anna Martin is the host of the Modern Love podcast from the New York Times. Rita Brent's story was directed by Jennifer Hickson. This episode of the Moth podcast was produced by Sarah Austin, Janess, Sarah Jane Johnson and me, Mark Solinger. The rest of the Moth leadership team includes Christina Norman, Marina Clouche, Jennifer Hickson, Jordan Cardinale, Caledonia Cairns, Kate Tellers, Suzanne Rust and Patricia Urenia. The Moth podcast is presented by Odysee. Special thanks to their executive producer, Leah Rhys Dennis. All Moth stories are true, as remembered by their storytellers. For more about our podcast, information on pitching your own story and everything else, go to our website, themoth.org.

[Anna Martin]

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[Narrator/Producer]

Ever listen to the Moth and thought I have a story to tell? We'd love to hear it. The Moth pitch line is your chance to share a 2 minute pitch of your true personal story. Record it right on our site@the moth.org or call 877799 MOTH. That's 877-799-6684. Here's the thing, we listen to every single pitch. Your story could end up on our podcast, our stage, or inspiring someone who needs to hear it. Share your [e-mail] or call 87779. Worth telling. Tell us yours.