The Moth Presents Heavyweight: “The Messenger”

Podcast: The Moth (featuring Heavyweight)
Host: Jonathan Goldstein
Date: September 26, 2025

Overview

This episode of The Moth podcast features a special presentation of an episode of Heavyweight titled "The Messenger." Host Jonathan Goldstein helps a man named Michael revisit a pivotal event from his adolescence: being cast as the lead in a short film called “The Messenger” — only to see it all collapse when the film’s director, Quincy, is exposed for a damaging lie. This deeply human story explores regret, deception, and reconciliation while pulling in themes of ambition, identity, and the legacies we leave behind.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Michael’s Brief But Life-Changing Starring Role

Michael’s Early Passion for Acting
- Michael describes himself as a mediocre childhood actor, always hidden in the back row. Despite discouragement (“my mom says your singing is awful” — [05:08] Michael), he keeps at it.
Landing the Role
- As a high school senior, Michael hears about auditions for a movie being shot in Cleveland. To his shock, he’s not made an extra, but cast as the star after resembling the storyboard drawings ([06:41] Michael).
“They showed me the storyboard and I looked exactly like the kid in the drawings of the storyboard. I think that's the reason I got it.”
— Michael ([06:41])
The Movie: “The Messenger”
- Based on a true WWII story: A teen, Thomas E. Jones, delivers the telegram announcing Japan’s surrender — only to be delayed by a traffic incident ([06:55] Jonathan Goldstein).

2. The Glamour & The Fallout

On Set and in the Spotlight
- Michael is awestruck by the film set’s magic; director Quincy becomes a mentor and friend, and anticipation builds for a big festival premiere ([07:36] Michael, [08:18] Jonathan Goldstein).
- ESPN and USA Today run stories; Tom Hanks is floated as interested in meeting Michael ([09:40–10:18]).
“My dad picks up the USA Today, flips it open, and sees, you know, a two page spread with my picture on it.”
— Michael ([09:52])
The Lie Revealed
- Days before the premiere, Quincy confesses: He couldn’t find the real Thomas E. Jones, so he filmed an actor on a fake deathbed, passing him off as Jones. The real Jones was alive, and his family saw the movie’s press coverage ([11:34] Michael).
“It turns out that Quincy had lied and had told a really big lie.”
— Michael ([11:34])
- The movie is pulled. Michael has to retract everything to friends and family, feeling devastated and embarrassed ([12:33] Michael).

3. The Real Story of Thomas E. Jones and Family Reactions

Interview With Thomas E. Jones’s Widow and Children
- Nancy, Jones’s widow, recounts the true story — her husband was never in a diner eating pancakes (as the film showed) and was a diligent worker.
- The Jones family was outraged at the portrayal ([18:56]), while Thomas himself was more forgiving.
“That was kind of my dad's attitude, like, oh, don't make a big deal. Don't get this person in trouble. We said, no, this is altering history. It just kind of portrayed him like, as the slacker, you know, like, oh. The heck with that. I'm going to go and flirt and eat pancakes.”
— Mike Jones ([19:28])
Attempts to Contact Quincy Fail
- Goldstein attempts to find Quincy, who refuses to talk:
  
  "I'm not interested in talking about that project anymore." ([20:41])

4. Unraveling the Mystery With Pat Croce

Who Is Pat Croce?
- Executive producer, media personality, and former 76ers owner. He facilitated the film’s funding and media attention ([08:24], [09:40] Jonathan Goldstein).
- After the scandal, he regrets being duped and feels betrayed ([26:32–27:37]).
"I was so hurt that I was angry. And when I'm angry, the old Pat Croce, the old corner guy, man, not only did I lose the money, but all the contacts... I had to go and apologize to everyone."
— Pat Croce ([27:09])
Pat's Perspective on Moving Forward
- Having gone through personal transformation and health battles, Croce chooses not to dwell on regret ([27:43–28:11]).
"The past to me is smoke off the end of my cigar."
— Pat Croce ([25:14])
Crucially, Pat Reaches Out to Quincy Again
- Following a chain of industry connections, Croce ends up speaking with Quincy and helps arrange a conversation between Quincy and Michael ([28:11–28:55]).

5. The Long-Awaited Conversation: Michael and Quincy Reunite

([31:32])

Reunion After 20 Years
- Michael and Quincy reminisce about filming and recall their own small lies on set ([32:07] Michael admits not knowing how to drive stick).
“I was like, I'm a fraud.”
— Michael ([32:34])
Coming Clean: Quincy Explains The Lie
- Quincy explains he found only a single passing reference to Jones in a Truman biography and, unable to locate Jones (investigators found what Quincy thought were death certificates), made the fateful choice to stage the interview ([34:31] Quincy).
“I just saw the story rolling out... I couldn't get away from that story.”
— Quincy ([35:33])
Confronting Self-Deception
- Quincy admits to a lifetime habit of exaggeration — a defense learned at a prep school where he never felt he fit in ([36:49]).
“Lies became a beautiful wall between myself and everyone else. Lies protected me, but also isolated me. It took the collapse of the messenger to finally get me to stop.”
— Quincy (paraphrased from [37:37] and [37:49])
Aftermath for Both Men
- For Quincy: Lost his job, left the film world, and struggled with public disgrace.
- For Michael: The setback didn’t derail him. The experience on set revealed his calling; he became a successful TV writer ([38:25] Michael).
- Michael ultimately thanks Quincy for setting his life on its path ([38:44–39:34]).
“All of this life that I have… this partner, this career, this kid, it comes from this wild, weird, random moment in Cleveland, Ohio, where you decided to cast me in this short film… I never got to just thank you.”
— Michael ([38:44])
Quincy’s Relief & Catharsis
- Quincy confides his belief that he ruined everyone’s life, and is moved by Michael’s gratitude ([39:34], [40:12]).
- Pat Croce’s brief, forgiving phone call — “let it go” — gives Quincy unexpected closure ([40:30]).
“As soon as he said those words, let it go, I just... sat out in front of my house and cried for a good 20 minutes.”
— Quincy ([40:30])

6. Epiphany and Closing Reflections

Transcending a Legacy of Lies
- Quincy, humbled, accepts the weight and lesson of his mistake. Michael finds gratitude, not bitterness, in the trajectory his life took.
Storytelling as Redemption
- The episode closes on the film set with Michael and his wife, now a producer — a poetic scene where the artificial world of filmmaking is embraced as a shared, “honest” lie ([41:14–42:13]).
“It's all a lie, of course, but one that we're all in on.”
— Jonathan Goldstein ([42:13])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“I just saw the story rolling out... I couldn't get away from that story.”
— Quincy ([35:33])
“All of this life that I have… comes from this wild, weird, random moment in Cleveland, Ohio, where you decided to cast me in this short film… I never got to just thank you.”
— Michael ([38:44])
“The past to me is smoke off the end of my cigar.”
— Pat Croce ([25:14])
“As soon as he said those words, let it go, I just... sat out in front of my house and cried for a good 20 minutes.”
— Quincy ([40:30])

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | | -------------- | ----------------------------------------- | | 05:08–06:41 | Michael’s audition and getting the role | | 06:55–08:18 | Story of “The Messenger” and director Quincy | | 09:40–10:18 | Movie’s media attention; Tom Hanks tease | | 11:34–12:33 | The lie revealed; movie canceled | | 17:03–19:09 | Interview with Thomas Jones’s family | | 23:07–28:11 | Pat Croce's involvement and outlook | | 31:32–32:34 | Michael and Quincy reunite | | 33:17–36:29 | Quincy details his downfall | | 36:49–37:49 | Quincy’s history with lying | | 38:25–39:34 | Michael thanks Quincy, life after | | 39:34–40:30 | Quincy’s catharsis; Pat says "let it go" | | 41:14–42:13 | Coda on set with Michael and Katie |

Tone & Style

Warm, Wry, Deeply Personal: Goldstein’s narration is gently self-deprecating and empathetic. Michael and Quincy share with candor, vulnerability, and surprising humor.
Reflective, Redemptive: The podcast dwells on regret but shifts toward understanding, forgiveness, and gratitude.

Summary for New Listeners

Whether or not you’ve ever heard Heavyweight before, “The Messenger” stands out as a compelling, stranger-than-fiction exploration of how a single choice can ripple through lives for decades, what drives us to embellish our own stories, and what freedom can be found in letting go of shame. It’s a moving testament to the unexpected grace of second chances, and the quiet, life-changing power of a thank you.

The Moth Presents Heavyweight: “The Messenger”

Podcast: The Moth (featuring Heavyweight)
Host: Jonathan Goldstein
Date: September 26, 2025

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Michael’s Brief But Life-Changing Starring Role

Michael’s Early Passion for Acting
- Michael describes himself as a mediocre childhood actor, always hidden in the back row. Despite discouragement (“my mom says your singing is awful” — [05:08] Michael), he keeps at it.
Landing the Role
- As a high school senior, Michael hears about auditions for a movie being shot in Cleveland. To his shock, he’s not made an extra, but cast as the star after resembling the storyboard drawings ([06:41] Michael).
“They showed me the storyboard and I looked exactly like the kid in the drawings of the storyboard. I think that's the reason I got it.”
— Michael ([06:41])
The Movie: “The Messenger”
- Based on a true WWII story: A teen, Thomas E. Jones, delivers the telegram announcing Japan’s surrender — only to be delayed by a traffic incident ([06:55] Jonathan Goldstein).

2. The Glamour & The Fallout

On Set and in the Spotlight
- Michael is awestruck by the film set’s magic; director Quincy becomes a mentor and friend, and anticipation builds for a big festival premiere ([07:36] Michael, [08:18] Jonathan Goldstein).
- ESPN and USA Today run stories; Tom Hanks is floated as interested in meeting Michael ([09:40–10:18]).
“My dad picks up the USA Today, flips it open, and sees, you know, a two page spread with my picture on it.”
— Michael ([09:52])
The Lie Revealed
- Days before the premiere, Quincy confesses: He couldn’t find the real Thomas E. Jones, so he filmed an actor on a fake deathbed, passing him off as Jones. The real Jones was alive, and his family saw the movie’s press coverage ([11:34] Michael).
“It turns out that Quincy had lied and had told a really big lie.”
— Michael ([11:34])
- The movie is pulled. Michael has to retract everything to friends and family, feeling devastated and embarrassed ([12:33] Michael).

3. The Real Story of Thomas E. Jones and Family Reactions

Interview With Thomas E. Jones’s Widow and Children
- Nancy, Jones’s widow, recounts the true story — her husband was never in a diner eating pancakes (as the film showed) and was a diligent worker.
- The Jones family was outraged at the portrayal ([18:56]), while Thomas himself was more forgiving.
“That was kind of my dad's attitude, like, oh, don't make a big deal. Don't get this person in trouble. We said, no, this is altering history. It just kind of portrayed him like, as the slacker, you know, like, oh. The heck with that. I'm going to go and flirt and eat pancakes.”
— Mike Jones ([19:28])
Attempts to Contact Quincy Fail
- Goldstein attempts to find Quincy, who refuses to talk:
  
  "I'm not interested in talking about that project anymore." ([20:41])

4. Unraveling the Mystery With Pat Croce

Who Is Pat Croce?
- Executive producer, media personality, and former 76ers owner. He facilitated the film’s funding and media attention ([08:24], [09:40] Jonathan Goldstein).
- After the scandal, he regrets being duped and feels betrayed ([26:32–27:37]).
"I was so hurt that I was angry. And when I'm angry, the old Pat Croce, the old corner guy, man, not only did I lose the money, but all the contacts... I had to go and apologize to everyone."
— Pat Croce ([27:09])
Pat's Perspective on Moving Forward
- Having gone through personal transformation and health battles, Croce chooses not to dwell on regret ([27:43–28:11]).
"The past to me is smoke off the end of my cigar."
— Pat Croce ([25:14])
Crucially, Pat Reaches Out to Quincy Again
- Following a chain of industry connections, Croce ends up speaking with Quincy and helps arrange a conversation between Quincy and Michael ([28:11–28:55]).

5. The Long-Awaited Conversation: Michael and Quincy Reunite

([31:32])

Reunion After 20 Years
- Michael and Quincy reminisce about filming and recall their own small lies on set ([32:07] Michael admits not knowing how to drive stick).
“I was like, I'm a fraud.”
— Michael ([32:34])
Coming Clean: Quincy Explains The Lie
- Quincy explains he found only a single passing reference to Jones in a Truman biography and, unable to locate Jones (investigators found what Quincy thought were death certificates), made the fateful choice to stage the interview ([34:31] Quincy).
“I just saw the story rolling out... I couldn't get away from that story.”
— Quincy ([35:33])
Confronting Self-Deception
- Quincy admits to a lifetime habit of exaggeration — a defense learned at a prep school where he never felt he fit in ([36:49]).
“Lies became a beautiful wall between myself and everyone else. Lies protected me, but also isolated me. It took the collapse of the messenger to finally get me to stop.”
— Quincy (paraphrased from [37:37] and [37:49])
Aftermath for Both Men
- For Quincy: Lost his job, left the film world, and struggled with public disgrace.
- For Michael: The setback didn’t derail him. The experience on set revealed his calling; he became a successful TV writer ([38:25] Michael).
- Michael ultimately thanks Quincy for setting his life on its path ([38:44–39:34]).
“All of this life that I have… this partner, this career, this kid, it comes from this wild, weird, random moment in Cleveland, Ohio, where you decided to cast me in this short film… I never got to just thank you.”
— Michael ([38:44])
Quincy’s Relief & Catharsis
- Quincy confides his belief that he ruined everyone’s life, and is moved by Michael’s gratitude ([39:34], [40:12]).
- Pat Croce’s brief, forgiving phone call — “let it go” — gives Quincy unexpected closure ([40:30]).
“As soon as he said those words, let it go, I just... sat out in front of my house and cried for a good 20 minutes.”
— Quincy ([40:30])

6. Epiphany and Closing Reflections

Transcending a Legacy of Lies
- Quincy, humbled, accepts the weight and lesson of his mistake. Michael finds gratitude, not bitterness, in the trajectory his life took.
Storytelling as Redemption
- The episode closes on the film set with Michael and his wife, now a producer — a poetic scene where the artificial world of filmmaking is embraced as a shared, “honest” lie ([41:14–42:13]).
“It's all a lie, of course, but one that we're all in on.”
— Jonathan Goldstein ([42:13])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“I just saw the story rolling out... I couldn't get away from that story.”
— Quincy ([35:33])
“All of this life that I have… comes from this wild, weird, random moment in Cleveland, Ohio, where you decided to cast me in this short film… I never got to just thank you.”
— Michael ([38:44])
“The past to me is smoke off the end of my cigar.”
— Pat Croce ([25:14])
“As soon as he said those words, let it go, I just... sat out in front of my house and cried for a good 20 minutes.”
— Quincy ([40:30])

Timestamps for Important Segments

Tone & Style

Warm, Wry, Deeply Personal: Goldstein’s narration is gently self-deprecating and empathetic. Michael and Quincy share with candor, vulnerability, and surprising humor.
Reflective, Redemptive: The podcast dwells on regret but shifts toward understanding, forgiveness, and gratitude.

wavePod

Presenting Heavyweight: The Messenger

Summary

The Moth Presents Heavyweight: “The Messenger”

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Michael’s Brief But Life-Changing Starring Role

2. The Glamour & The Fallout

3. The Real Story of Thomas E. Jones and Family Reactions

4. Unraveling the Mystery With Pat Croce

5. The Long-Awaited Conversation: Michael and Quincy Reunite

6. Epiphany and Closing Reflections

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Tone & Style

Summary for New Listeners

Transcript

Summary

The Moth Presents Heavyweight: “The Messenger”

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Michael’s Brief But Life-Changing Starring Role

2. The Glamour & The Fallout

3. The Real Story of Thomas E. Jones and Family Reactions

4. Unraveling the Mystery With Pat Croce

5. The Long-Awaited Conversation: Michael and Quincy Reunite

6. Epiphany and Closing Reflections

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Tone & Style

Summary for New Listeners