The Moth Podcast: "Seen and Unseen"
April 24, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of The Moth Podcast, hosted by Meg Bowles, explores the theme of visibility—what it means to be "seen" or "unseen" both in a personal and societal context. Through two powerful true stories told live, listeners are invited to reflect on the complexities of identity, recognition, and the sometimes profound cost or danger of being noticed (or overlooked). Storytellers Eliza Reid (former First Lady of Iceland) and Jonna Mendez (former CIA Chief of Disguise) shed light on how being seen or choosing invisibility can shape lives in public and secret spheres alike.

1. Story: Eliza Reid — "Not Just the President’s Wife"

Live at Union Chapel, London
[02:56–17:30]

Theme:
Navigating identity, visibility, and expectations as the First Lady of Iceland, and how stepping into an unexpected public role raised questions about voice, feminism, and the meaning of "being seen."

Key Discussion Points and Insights

• An Unexpected Turn

  • Eliza describes an ordinary evening in 2016, interrupted by a flood of calls urging her husband, a history professor, to run for President after his TV commentary about the Panama Papers scandal ([02:56]).
  • Within weeks, her husband, Gudni, declares his candidacy, and Eliza is thrust into the international spotlight as First Lady:

    “All we could do was catch it and run...and on August 1, 2016, I became Iceland’s forsata frú—president’s wife.” ([05:27])

• Public Role vs. Private Self

  • Eliza grapples with her new visibility and the absence of a "handbook" for this ambiguous, highly public position.
  • She recognizes her new "invisible platform"—a chance to champion issues like gender equality but also feels the weight of being known only as "the president’s wife," not for her own accomplishments.

• Moments of Being Overlooked

  • Eliza recounts frequent experiences of being ignored at public events, illustrations of subtle marginalization:

    “We would show up together at a grand opening...The photo caption would simply say, President attends.” ([09:25]) “I had stood there, smile at the ready, hand outstretched, and then each time they would go past me...” ([10:26])

  • These small slights add up, leading her to question her belonging and self-worth.

• Pushing Back and Owning Her Platform

  • Inspired to counter these stereotypes, Eliza decides to use her platform—writing a viral Facebook post and op-ed for The New York Times:

    “I’m not my husband’s handbag, which he can grab as he runs out the door and display silently by his side at public appearances.” ([13:37])

  • Though anxious about backlash, she finds mostly positive responses, realizing many people—especially women—can relate to living in another’s shadow.

• Reflection and Growth

  • By the end of her tenure, Eliza feels she’s acquired the tools and confidence to define her own impact, saying:

    “Life is really just often a series of beautiful uncertainties...I hope that I did my part to Nudge things in the right direction...” ([16:51])

Memorable Quotes

• “There is no handbook on how to be the spouse of a head of state. And this is a challenge because I love handbooks.” – Eliza Reid ([06:30])
• “I know as a feminist, as a woman, that the patriarchy...has traditionally marginalized women's voices and women's contributions and women's presences.” – Eliza Reid ([11:13])
• "I realized that very few people end up married to a head of state, but a great many people, very often women, end up married to someone who, for whatever reason, is better known than they are, and they could relate to what that does to their identity." – Eliza Reid ([15:22])

2. Interview: Eliza Reid with Host Meg Bowles

[17:30–23:16]

Key Insights

• Preconceptions and Pressures

  • Eliza discusses early expectations, like being contacted by stylists about her "personal style" while juggling motherhood ([18:02]):

    “My maternity pants still fit really well, and I last bought shoes five years ago or something...” ([18:22])

  • Explores the tension between public support of her husband and maintaining an independent identity.

• Role Ambiguity and Work Life

  • No official salary, staff, or guidelines—yet pressures to fulfill ceremonial and public responsibilities.
  • Eliza prioritized keeping her own professional work and voice despite the expectations to be a supportive accessory.

• Personal Transformation

  • The experience made her more optimistic:

    “It reinforced my faith...there's so, so many challenges that we need to be tackling now, but...these things gave me hope that we will all have the enthusiasm, the drive, the belief, the conviction that we can all do our part in some small way.” ([22:12])

3. Story: Jonna Mendez — "The Art of Invisibility"

Live on The Moth Stage
[26:04–39:58]

Theme:
The extreme necessity and power of remaining unseen—from espionage tradecraft to the lethal consequences of being noticed.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

• Undercover at the White House

  • Jonna, then CIA’s Chief of Disguise, recounts briefing President George H.W. Bush while wearing a full-face, animated mask without his knowledge:

    “I was going to give the first speak and then I was going to be the first one to leave. I was wearing the first animated full face mask that my disguise office had produced.” ([26:44])

  • The President is amazed when she dramatically peels off the disguise ([28:12]).

• Craft of Not Being Seen

  • Jonna’s career began in clandestine photography, developing miniature cameras hidden in everyday objects and training foreign agents in their use.

• Dangers of Visibility

  • On an assignment in the subcontinent, Jonna supports a chief of station meeting a desperate, dangerous terrorist. She describes the tense scene in a hotel lobby, pretending to be a carpet buyer while the terrorist spots and fixes his gaze on her:

    “He wanted me to know that he knew. He wanted me to know that I was seen, that he saw me.” ([33:51])

  • Jonna’s acute fear in that moment: “This is possibly...this is it. They will possibly kill me. It will mean nothing to them.” ([34:38])
  • She reflects on the Wall of Stars at CIA HQ—anonymous recognition for those killed in the line of duty.

• Cost of Invisibility

  • Maintaining total secrecy costs Jonna personal relationships and recognition:

    “It cost me a lot of friends. None of my neighbors, none of my friends back then knew what I did, where I was, who I worked for.” ([36:44])

  • She notes, over time, invisibility became a source of pride rather than diminishment:

    “I discovered that my ambition receded and that my need for recognition disappeared. I discovered that invisibility actually suited me.” ([37:48])

• Full Circle: Seen and Unseen

  • Jonna keeps a photo of herself in the Oval Office, and when asked who the woman in the picture is, she responds:

    “I knew her very well. I knew her very, very well. We were really, really close.” ([39:45])

Memorable Quotes

• “The whole point was never to be seen. You wanted to be invisible. Being seen could get you killed or the foreigners that you were working with. This was a dangerous, dangerous game.” – Jonna Mendez ([31:19])
• “I was scared to death. I almost couldn't breathe...I had never been that close to that kind of evil.” – Jonna Mendez ([34:55])

Timestamps for Significant Segments

• [02:56] — Eliza Reid’s full story: The accidental First Lady and the complexities of visibility
• [17:30] — Meg Bowles interviews Eliza Reid about expectations, identity, and the notion of support
• [26:04] — Jonna Mendez recounts her CIA career and the perils of being seen
• [34:00] — Direct confrontation with a terrorist: the cost and terror of visibility

Notable Moments & Quotes

• “There is no handbook on how to be the spouse of a head of state. And this is a challenge because I love handbooks.” (Eliza Reid, [06:30])
• "I’m not my husband’s handbag, which he can grab as he runs out the door and display silently by his side..." (Eliza Reid, [13:37])
• “He wanted me to know that I was seen, that he saw me.” (Jonna Mendez, [33:51])
• “I discovered that my ambition receded and that my need for recognition disappeared. I discovered that invisibility actually suited me.” (Jonna Mendez, [37:48])

Summary and Takeaways

The episode offers a rich meditation on what it means to be seen or unseen. Through Eliza Reid’s journey, listeners confront how public roles can both empower and eclipse, especially for women navigating societal expectations. Jonna Mendez’s story reveals the high stakes of secrecy and anonymity, where not being seen is not just a metaphor but a literal matter of life and death.

For further information on the storytellers and their books:

• Eliza Reid: Death on the Island, Death of a Diplomat, and memoir The First Lady Next Door
• Jonna Mendez: Memoir In True Face

More resources and stories at: themoth.org