The Moth Radio Hour: Blue Men, Psychopaths, and a Bad Date

Summary

The Moth Radio Hour: "Blue Men, Psychopaths, and a Bad Date"

Release Date: July 7, 2015
Host: Kathryn Burns, Artistic Director of The Moth

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Moth Radio Hour, host Kathryn Burns guides listeners through three riveting true stories: an insider’s perspective on the iconic Blue Man Group, a neuroscientist’s unsettling discovery about his own brain, and a comedian’s disastrous foray into the New York City dating scene. Each narrative delves deep into human experience, showcasing moments of vulnerability, self-discovery, and unexpected twists.

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1. Life Behind the Blue Mask: John Grady’s Blue Man Group Journey

Storyteller: John Grady
Timestamp Highlight: 04:00 - 15:03

John Grady, a former member of the renowned Blue Man Group, shares his eight-year journey performing in New York City. He paints a vivid picture of the group’s unique theatrical experience:

"There are three bald guys on stage. They're all dressed in black with shiny blue latex paint on their faces and heads... We don't speak, we don't talk. But it was a great job to have." (04:08)

Grady discusses the exhilarating yet monotonous nature of continuously performing the same act for years, leading to a struggle against complacency. His story peaks when he recounts an emotionally charged performance where an audience member, selected as a "feast guest," revitalizes the show by bringing genuine warmth and spontaneity:

"She brought that innocence, this childlike innocence, that ability to remain present and be honest and fearless... And she brought the show alive again." (14:30)

This interaction not only reignites Grady’s passion for the performance but also underscores the profound impact an individual can have on a collective experience.

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2. Unveiling the Psychopath Within: James Fallon’s Scientific Revelation

Storyteller: Dr. James Fallon, Neuroscientist
Timestamp Highlight: 17:11 - 36:27

Dr. James Fallon narrates his groundbreaking yet personal journey into the neuroscience of psychopathy. Initially dedicated to studying brain chemistry and disorders, Fallon’s research takes an unexpected turn when he begins analyzing PET scans of serial killers. His discoveries lead him to a shocking self-realization:

"I looked at it and it was me." (15:03)

Fallon reveals that his brain scans exhibited similar patterns to those of psychopathic killers, raising questions about his own nature. He delves into his family history, uncovering a lineage marked by violence, including infamous relatives like Lizzie Borden:

"They murder their own people. You know, they don't murder outside the family." (34:38)

This revelation forces Fallon to confront his lack of empathy and emotional connection with close ones, despite being a loving husband and father. In an effort to mitigate these traits, he embarks on a self-imposed cognitive therapy, striving to act more compassionately even if he doesn't inherently feel it:

"If I treat the people close to me with caring, with being a good companion and a good friend... maybe just acting them out would be a good place to start." (35:28)

Fallon’s introspective journey raises profound questions about the interplay between genetics, behavior, and identity.

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3. When Comedy Meets Chaos: Rachel Dratch’s Dating Disaster

Storyteller: Rachel Dratch, Comedian and Former Saturday Night Live Cast Member
Timestamp Highlight: 37:32 - 52:07

Rachel Dratch recounts her challenging venture into the dating world post-Saturday Night Live. Transitioning from casual, comedic interactions to genuine romantic pursuits in New York City, Dratch faces a series of misadventures:

"I decided to try dating in New York. Now, I had never actually really been on a real date before." (37:32)

Her first attempt leads to a back injury just days before a highly anticipated date, reminiscent of a painful experience from her SNL days:

"I had to walk home like this, you know, like an old lady." (45:00)

Undeterred, Dratch meets Brent (referred to as Steve for the story), only to discover unsettling red flags, including his excessive drinking and bizarre fascination with cannibalism:

"Have you ever wondered what it'd be like to taste human flesh?" (48:12)

This culminates in a harrowing realization that her back injury spared her from an even more disastrous relationship, reinforcing her decision to prioritize her well-being over the pursuit of romance.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Moth Radio Hour masterfully intertwines personal anecdotes with broader themes of identity, human connection, and self-discovery. Whether it's the silent storytelling of the Blue Man Group, the neuroscientist uncovering unsettling truths about himself, or the comedian navigating the treacherous waters of dating, each story offers profound insights into the complexities of human nature.

Notable Quotes:

• John Grady (04:08): "Once you do your first show, you're just like, ah, I can't wait for the next one and the next one..."
• James Fallon (15:03): "I looked at it and it was me."
• Rachel Dratch (48:12): "Have you ever wondered what it'd be like to taste human flesh?"

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For More Stories:

All stories featured in this episode are available on the iTunes Store. To share your own story, visit themoth.org.

Transcript

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[Showtime Representative]

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[Dan Kennedy]

Welcome to the Moth Podcast. I'm Dan Kennedy. Hope you guys had a great holiday weekend today. We're going to go back into our archives. We did this a couple of months ago, actually. And in an effort to give you all of the weekly Moth stories that you require, we have got another full hour for you today. For all of that, we're going to turn things over to the Moth's artistic director, Katharine Burns. Here's Kathryn.

[Kathryn Burns]

From prx. This is the Moth Radio Hour. I'm Kathryn Burns, artistic director of the Moth and I'll be your host this time. The Moth is true stories told live without notes. We have three stories this hour. A performer takes us behind the scenes of the legendary show Blue Man Group. Former Saturday Night Live cast member Rachel Dratz tries going on A normal date. And a neurobiologist studies the brain scans of serial killers. Our first story is from John Grady. For eight years, John performed with Blue Man Group. For those of you who have never seen the show, here's the deal. There are three bald guys on stage. They're all dressed in black with shiny blue latex paint on their faces and heads. They live in a world of flying marshmallows spraying colored water and reams and reams of unspooling toilet paper. The way they communicate is through gestures and facial expressions, Expressions no one speaks. I've seen the show a lot and I've always wondered what's going through those guys. Heads. Well, John Grady was one of those ball blue men. Here's John live at the mall.

[John Grady]

So I spent eight years of my life here in New York City performing with Blue Man Group.

[Audience Member]

Thank you.

[John Grady]

I know. No, it's like seriously dream job. I'm serious. I mean, where else do you get to learn, you know, to be a precision expert drummer, to learn to throw and catch with, you know, laser like focus and you know, and also to communicate non verbally with two other blue men on stage and with the audience because that's what it is. We don't speak, we don't talk. But it was a great job to have. I mean it's my first time moving to New York City, my first off Broadway show. And I'm like so excited. The show is just addicting to do. Once you do your first show, you're just like, ah, I can't wait for the next one and the next one, the next one and the next one. Then a week goes by and then month goes by and then a year goes by and you celebrate your first anniversary and then you're like two years in and a few more years and a few more years have gone by and somehow it has become a job. I know, it's like I'm just trying to keep it fresh and alive after show number 2473 or something, whatever. And you just. I'm finding myself trying to fight complacency because you become so adept at doing all the skills that it's just not really a challenge. And I find myself walking through the show thinking things like, did I order food between shows? Did I remember the tivo Sopranos? And like that. So now I'm trying to find and rediscover that thing, that original thing that really connected me with the show. And I find myself trying to recreate those early days for those of you who haven't seen the show, it's primarily about the audience, about connectedness and community. The audience has gathered for the evening for this happening, for this crazy, wild, you know, interactive piece of theater led by these three silent, bald, and blue characters. One part of the show is we bring up a volunteer and we refer to her as our feast guest, which, not important for you to know, but just because we sit behind a table and we eventually get to dining with her, but we also take her through a bunch of tasks, and we're getting to know her and the audience as well by manipulating things and moving things around and opening them. And she comes to represent the audience in a way, because we're going to be up there making not fun of her, but making fun with her. But I mean, the audience empathizes with her because, you know, they're going to be in on some of the jokes that she's not. I mean, they'll definitely. They'll feel like, oh, my God, I'm so glad that was you up there and not me. You were amazing. You were wonderful. Now when I go to choose a feast guest, it's my job each night I look for someone who's sort of open and willing, just a willing participant, someone who I think best represents the spirit of the show. Like, if. Like, if I was going to choose someone from the audience here to be a feast guest, like, it would be like this one right here, just very shiny, available. Yes. It's just like, we just make a quick connection, like, good. So I know we're good to go. It's like that. So I'm stepping out into the audience for the first time in the show to go pick out a feast guest. In the first few rows, people are wearing ponchos because the show is just a mess. It's just a play. It's just a playground for you. And it just can be messy. So we wanted to make sure the audience is covered and protected. So I step out there and I'm having. It's probably show number 2,474, just a little less committed to and present than 2,473. I don't know when suddenly, Bing Chong Bong, I see the shin happy person sitting over in the poncho section, and she literally just pulls me in on her vortex. Like, wow. I can't remember the last time that I saw someone who was so willing, so available, just so open. And I was like, okay, fine, you're the feast guest. Make my job easy. Great. So now I'm going out to the Audience to have a little more fun. The other two blue men come up to me and they tell me, it's time for us, for you to let us know who the feast guest is.

[Apple Representative]

Is.

[John Grady]

And this is all nonverbal. And I say, well, check it out. Shiny, happy person right here. They're like, great, shiny, happy person. Bring her on up. So these two guys run up onto the stage, the band kicks into their sort of theme that's going to start our procession up the aisle to the stage. I reach down, I grab her hand, and she's just beaming at me. And she just clings onto my arm. She leans into me. She's so excited, she has no idea what to expect. And I reach down and I pull off her poncho and she has one arm, which is not a big deal, right? I mean, even though in this piece we're going to be grabbing things and manipulating them and moving them and opening them and, oh, God, we're going to be up there making fun with her, not of her. And now I'm beginning to panic, and I look up on stage and the other two blue men are staring down at me in horror, going, what did you do? I don't know. I don't know. And now I'm running the entire piece frantically through my mind because I know it forwards and backwards, and I am going to accommodate it for her. I am going to make. So I could probably skip that part or again, instead of her doing that, or actually, we'll just leave that part out. Actually, he probably doesn't have to do that for her. You probably just skip that part and leave that part out. Actually, if we're going to skip that part and skip that part, why don't we just put her back down? Just skip the fucking whole thing. And at this point of the show, we're supposed to be sort of afraid, you know, that we're bringing someone, an audience member, into our space for the first time. And we are terrified. I mean, we are sitting behind the table in a row and our knees are knocking together, you know, and there is this awkward silence coming from the audience that I have never experienced before. But she is loving it. She is having the time of her life. So I bring out the first object, which is this is electric candle. And I had put it on the table and has a little switch on it, and she leans over and switches it on. That's okay. We're good. Pretty good there. Next blue man next to me, he pulls out a desk lamp and he puts it on and he Stretches it out, and she reaches over to click it. Click, click, click, click, click. The switch doesn't go on. And what is about to unfold in my brain, and I'm trying to communicate with him, screaming, going, no, don't. Because the joke of the piece is it's attached to a Clapper light. So he goes and pops the light on, which usually elicits laughter from the audience, but not this time. Dead silence. Because it was like he was saying, well, if you had two hands, you could turn on the light. Oh, dear God help us. The last blue man brings out a box of Twinkies for us to dine on. For those of you who've seen the show, that'll make sense. It passes them out. And the Twinkie for the blue man is a very curious object. The way it's shaped and sculpted, the way the light hits it and the way it sort of reflects off its golden, cakey shell. And if this is something that's meant to be consumed, why would you put it in this package? And if it's. Is there an opening to this package? I mean, how would you open it? And this is something that we play with and, oh, my God, how is she going to open this package? But I look over without missing a beat, she's already taken the Twinkie, taken the package, put under her, what's left of her arm right here, and just goes, pops it open, puts it on her plate with such speed and dexterity, I had to see it again. So I hand her mine, she goes, pops it open, puts it on my plate. I look at the other two guys who are still struggling with theirs. I pick it up, I'm like, check it out. They are completely blown away. They reach. He gets his to hers, and she pops it open. He gets it, pops it over, and now we're good. And that thing, that thing that is starting to happen, that can only happen in a live performance where the event on stage is starting to mirror what's happening with the audience's experience, and it exists somewhere in between and creates this biofeedback loop of event and experience and experience and event and event and experience and experience and event. And now we are with the audience, and they are with us. And the two blue men beside me reach down and pick up their forks because they're going to dig into this Twinkie. And that's when I feel her shut down beside me. I literally feel her heart light go out. And I look out of the corner of my eye, and she's staring down at the knife and the fork. And I see panic in her eyes. And I reach over and I just grab my fork and I just gesture to her, just the fork, right? And she just beams back at me and says, yeah, that's all we need. And the two other blue men follow suit. Yeah, I'm exactly what. Yeah, what he said. And we dig in and it's all good. I'm feeding her, she's feeding me, we're all cross feeding each other. It's a big flirt fest. And the piece just crescendos and explodes in this huge celebration. And the audience bursts into this enormous applause for her, really, because she was beautiful, she was amazing, and she was the catalyst for this whole thing, thing to happen. And she brought that element back that I had completely forgotten about. She brought this innocence, this childlike innocence, that ability to remain present and be honest and fearless and not try to manufacture anything again. And we send her back into the audience and they've completely changed and space has completely changed. Tiny Astroplace theater has become as large and as opulent as the Bolshoi. And we go back behind our PVC pipe instruments to play our first piece of music. And each tone that we're paddling out is just echoing into the darkness like launching a flare into a cavernous ca. And I just start to cry. And I look over at the other two guys and they are crying because we were just raw and exhausted. But even more so, we were exhilarated that we made it through this experience together. And afterwards I went up and met up with her in the lobby and I thanked her for being such an amazing participant in the show and for making it such an incredible experience for everyone involved and for making the show for me alive again. Thank you.

[Kathryn Burns]

That was John Grady. John performs in his one man show Fear Factor Canine Edition and starred Off Broadway in so Balding Stories Left to Tell. To see pictures of John backstage and find out more about Blue man group, go to themoth.org in a moment we'll have a story about a neuroscientist who discovers disturbing facts about his own family while studying the brain scans of serial killers.

[Zillow Representative]

Support for the Moth comes from Zillow. With millions of homes for sale, apartments for rent, photos, historical pricing data and other resources available on Zillow.com or on their mobile and tablet apps. Zillow. Find you'd way home. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts and presented by by PRX.

[Showtime Representative]

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[Kathryn Burns]

This is the Moth Radio Hour from prx. I'm Kathryn Burns. Next we have a story from brain scientist James Fallon. James told this story as part of our annual collaboration with the World Science Festival. Here's James Fallon live at the Moth.

[Interviewer]

Now, I'm a scientist who studies the brain and I've been a neuroscientist for about 40 years. And most of that 40 years I've been what's called a small time scientist. I'm a small lab, only a few people, small grants. And most scientists are like this, we're kind of hobbits. And the whole idea of being a hobbit is that you stay within the wheelhouse of your expertise. You don't talk to the media, you don't give talks like this. And you just stay under the radar for everything. And if mind your own business, everything will be okay. And that's really how I live my almost my entire scientific life. Now generally, I was like pretty average guy. I was class clown in high school. I still have my teamsters card, which I can go back to at any time hopefully. And the first date I ever had, we were both 12 years old. I'm still dating her 50 years later. So quite an, you know, an average regular guy, seriously. And so anyway, the part of the kind of science I was doing, which is the basic chemistry connections of the brain and also adult stem cells, that was going along just fine. And then I got a call from some colleagues in psychiatry and radiology and they said, you got to come over here. We got a really cool new machine. And the cool new machine was a PET scanner, Positron emission tomography. And the great thing about this is you're able to see inside the human brain, the living human brain, and activate certain areas of the brain depending on what people are doing, the tasks that they're doing. And so, I mean, for a neuroanatomist, this is a candy dispenser. And it was love at first sight. And so I got involved. I made the first mistake of going outside my wheelhouse of expertise. But anyways, we started to do these studies on consciousness and memory, addiction and also things like schizophrenia. And that was going along fine. And then a couple years after this started, which was kind of the mid-90s, I saw a SWAT team come in, and they were all over the medical school. And it was real, right near where the PET scanner is. And I saw this guy come walking with manacles with police. And then I got a call in the afternoon, he said, from another colleague, he says, you got to take a look at this. And they had started studies of serial killers. And the idea was to go in. These are serial killers that have been caught. And during the penalty phase of the trial, only the penalty phase, they want to show that they're crazy, right? And the devil maybe do it so we could show that they were crazy. It would show up in their scans. So I started analyzing these, maybe one or two a year. There was this kind of a side thing, and everything was going along just fine. Then about six years ago, another colleague showed up with a whole pile of these and all these killers brains, scans of these killers brains. But it was mixed in with normal people, People with depression, schizophrenia. And the good thing about this is I had no idea which scan belonged to which person or what they were. It was a blind study, and this was a perfect opportunity. And this is really advantageous because it's so difficult with the legal system to get this kind of data. So I went through and spent a few months looking at it. And I started to create piles of different areas of the brain that seemed to be malfunctioning in these different people. About three quarters of the way through, I noticed something. I said, first of all, I knew what all the normals were, and I knew the schizophrenics, because I had seen a lot of those and depressors. There's a whole other group that had a mix of damage, but they all had one thing in common. They had damage to two parts of the brain. One was the area right above the eyes, orbital cortex, and the front of the temporal lobe. And this really floored me because it was. It made sense because one is kind of the animal instinct, Control your brain amygdala. And the other is where ethics and morality are thought to be processed. And the fact that these two were off meant the balance was off and it made some sense. So I really thought about this and did a lot of reading and developed a theory, you know, three things you need for to have a psychopathic killer's brain. I just started to give talks. It was just very interesting. To me, about the same time, funny things started to happen. The first was we were doing an Alzheimer's disease study in our lab. It was for clinical trials. We're also trying to discover new genes for schizophrenia, for Alzheimer's and schizophrenia. It's turned up now. It turns out my wife's family loaded with Alzheimer's disease and she just lost two parents with Alzheimer's. So I said, look it, I went to her and I said, why don't we come in as controls get involved, we'll do PET scans, look for the genes for what we knew for Alzheimer's and I'll get my brothers to come in and we'll do the kids. And then if we can see that anybody has these high level of these high risk genes, maybe they can do something and they can change the way they live, their diet and all these things. And she said absolutely. I mean she was quite heroic about this. And she figured she was going to die of something else, which she didn't before she, you know, died of Alzheimer's. So we did this, everybody was enthusiastic. So the results came back. And so I was going through the pile of my family's PET scans and as I was going through I was really very much relieved as everyone was normal. So all the way through there's like eight of these and the genetics were normal. And I got to one on the bottom and I thought it was in the wrong pile because I also had all these killer's brains in another pile on the desk. And I said I've mixed them up. And I looked at it and it looked like the worst case of these psychopathic killers brains and had no activity here and here, the two areas. And I looked down and it was me. I kind of thought, I said, I kind of get the joke here because giving these talks so and you know, I really thought for a second, and I'm a scientist, was like, isn't that interesting? And I just reflected back because I was, you know, growing up in New York, I was Catholic boy of the year in New York, which got me to meet Nelson Rockefeller. I don't know why those go together. And you know, I was so hyper religious my whole life that in college I went to a Catholic college, that a priest there who was a professor said you're so bad you got to get out. So actually gave me an exorcism to get the goody two shoes out of me. I had no idea how to sin really. And I learned it took a while because my heart wasn't in it. But you'd go through these steps, okay, now. So I kind of laughed it off because I knew that I was in jail. I didn't, you know, kill anybody then. It was at a barbecue. We had a family barbecue, the whole family there and the kids and everything. My mother comes over. You know, she's. She usually does. And she pulls me aside. She says, you know, I hear you've been giving talks about serial killers. And I saw a twinkle in her eye, you know, because she's really. Even if she's in her 90s, it seems to be getting worse. She's very devilish about this. She says, check your father's family out. Said, your cousin, who's an editor of a paper in New York, found this new book, and it's about your father's family. And he says, and check your scans very carefully. So I went and I got the book, and I read it, and I'm going. And it was really wild. It's about the Cornells. That's my father's family. And in it was the case of the first case of matricide, which is the killing of a mother by a son. And that was in 1667. So it was a very interesting book on, you know, how these sorts of murder cases were handled back then. But then at the end of the book, there were six more murderers in the same line going from that family to me. And so we had this whole family. And she loved this because she had to put up the whole life with this thing about being Sicilian, you know. And her father, you know, lived out on the streets here. When he came over from Sicily, he was about 12, just a couple blocks from here. And he had, you know, he had became a bootlegger. And she went up to Lucky Luciano's place. So she always gave me the Mafia thing, even though she wasn't. This was her chance to get even. So, anyway, that was fine. And then it was. Within a year, I was invited to give a TED Talk. In a TED Talk, you got to talk about something interesting, important, funny, and all this, which is not that easy. So I got desperate, and this was a mistake. And I told the first part of the story about my pet scans, and everybody's normal in my family but me and this thing about these Cornells. So I gave that talk, and within. And this was when Ted was just starting to put these talks on YouTube. Somebody called me up, they said, they just put your talk on YouTube, and it's got like, 30,000 hits overnight. And I went kind of blank on this because I made the first. No, no, about being a hobbit scientist, which is doing something like that. So anyway, I got all these calls, a lot of media things, head writer for the Wall Street Journal of Science came out, spent some time with us. I got a phone call from the executive producer, head writer of Criminal Minds, Simon Mirren. He says, I got what you're talking about, man, transgenerational violence. And he was fantastic. And they both were. It kind of put the pressure on me because I had hanging out there, this family history, my PET scans to look further into this. So I looked further into the genetics and I was trying to look for things generally. We did a very broad scan, but having to do with aggression and violence and all these genetics came back in my family. And I can tell you this because every one of them have an average amount of high and low risk genes for aggression and violence. And so they were all cool. And I looked at the last number and there it was. And I looked at mine and I, in my own DNA, I had all the high risk alleles for violence and aggression, every one of them. And so these so called warrior genes, and there's a number of them, the first one is monoamine oxidase and they control serotonin and some other transmitters. And so this, it had a little bit more serious. So I started to ask people because also I saw in there things having to do with bonding to people were just not right. You know, the cuddling sort of hormones, oxytocin, vasopressin and testosterone. It hinted at something that may not be right. That's when I really took notice. So next mistake I made is I went around asking everybody what they thought of me. Now my wife and I have been hanging out, you know, 50 years together. What do you really think of me? I said, no, no, tell me, tell me. I went down. Yes, my grandkids, our kids, and people really close to my friends. And every one of them, including professionals, psychiatrists who knew me well, said, we've always known you're kind of a sociopath. And I went, what? I said, you know, And I wasn't sort of a denial at that point. Every one of them said, you don't connect to people. You're kind of cold and you're kind of superficially glib and you're great at parties and you love strangers and you love world peace and hunger and doing all these things generally. But in terms of being the person really close to you, your mother, wife and other people, very close, it ain't such a Fun ride. It was quite a disappointing person to be around. And, you know, at 63, you're not supposed to be finding this stuff out. It's like at 21, you know, so you can fix it. What are you going to do? 63. So there it was. And you know, the very fact they all agreed, including the professionals I had known and worked with, they just said, you're an interesting guy to be around. So they kind of tolerate it because I'm fun and interesting generally, but emotionally, I don't have the kind of empathy, apparently, bonding with people. I bond with strangers, you know, strangers and world things. It's upside. So I live. And there are actually genes that seem to be associated with these different kinds of empathy. Now, I heard this, and after I heard all of it, I didn't care. I really didn't care. And it was kind of the proof that what they were saying was true. I said, that's interesting, but I really. And I truly really don't care. Now it's gotten me to think about, you know, the nature of good and evil and about free will and other sorts of things that we hold near and dear to our humanity. And I started thinking about psychopaths because I also happened to score a little too high on the psychopath test like that. It's exactly how I felt. And I'm not a full psychopath. I'm not a psychopath lite. What's called a pro, social or successful psychopath sounds so charming. Anybody want to go out later? I'd be happy to be with you. And so, and I really started to think, we know there's a very constant number of these in all sorts of societies that maybe society really needs psychopaths, Because, I mean, do we really want our surgeons to be really empathetic when they're doing the surgery? Do we want somebody cold and calculated, right on the money, right on the spot of doing good surgery? Do we want our Green Berets to really be empathetic where they go? Or do we want them to protect us? And do we want our CEOs and we want our investment people to really be, you know, heartfelt? Or do they want them to just go out and make me some money, man? And when I think of it, and I said, maybe we need them, we need this. And sometimes it gets out of hand. But really, it kind of got to me in the sense that everybody feels this way about me or close to me. People don't know me. They said, no, that's not true. But people who know Said, yes, you've got it, man. And so I figured just recently, in the past two months, maybe if I just acted the part, even if I don't feel it at an emotional level. So if I treated the people close to me with kind of caring, kind of civil, go to all the funerals and weddings instead of the parties, if I started doing those things, maybe just acting them out would be a good place to start, just to be a good companion and a good friend. And so that's where I am now. Thanks.

[Kathryn Burns]

That was James Fallon. James, recent genetic research has discovered new genes for Alzheimer's disease and schizophrenia, and he lectures worldwide on the brains of psychopathic killers and dictators. Recently, I sat down with Jim and we talked about a few pieces of his story that he left out when he told it on now, with most moth storytellers, yourself included, work very hard putting their stories together, but the stories aren't memorized. And sometimes the storyteller will end up leaving out some fun little bit. And in your story, you talk about discovering that there are quite a number of murderers in your family over the course of a few hundred years, but you forgot to mention your famous cousin.

[James Fallon]

Who is Cousin Lizzie. Yeah, cousin Lizzie Borden as part of this, my father's side, the Cornell, and she's a Cornell. And so starting from the initial matricide, Thomas Cornell, who killed our great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother, you know, on through to Lizzie, there was about seven murders. And we found some more in parallel lines on that side, too. But anyway, yeah, I mean, right at the end, there was Lizzie Borden. And since, you know, the month and just related interviews, I started to get contacted by people who are Cornells and other Lizzie cousins. And it's kind of funny, most of them say, no, don't say that.

[Interviewer]

She was never proven guilty.

[James Fallon]

You know, they don't have a lot of the Lizzie Borden cousins. Don't like to hear about this because, you know, the other side of the Cornell family, that's Cornell University, and it's kind of an upstanding family. But, you know, I've got so many horse thieves on both sides of the family, I just, you know, it becomes nested within that right at this point.

[Kathryn Burns]

What's more, what's Lizzie Borden? To just throw her into the mix.

[Interviewer]

Throw her into the mix.

[James Fallon]

Well, but she's a very important one because she illustrates and highlights the fact that the murderers in our family murder their own people. You know, they don't murder outside the family. They murder their mothers, their Fathers, their husbands, their wives. And so it's all internal to a family which has, you know, empathy and violence. There are genetic components that direct that anger and violence either outside the tribe, if you will, or inside the tribe, inside the family. So it's a particular kind of murdering. You know, there's fratricide and matricide and the killing of mates. So it's an unusual pattern because they're all like that.

[John Grady]

Wow.

[Kathryn Burns]

Has your wife ever been worried to that end?

[James Fallon]

She knows a lot about me and all my development and my family. So she's got a really intimate knowledge of, you know, who I am. But this was a bit of a surprise because, you know, she said there is a part of me that is very distant and very cold. And so this experience, and when she heard the moth talk, you know, she says, well, that's kind of it. You know, that even though you're there, you're kind of this happy, go, lucky, fun, interesting guy. Generally that there's this darker person there that is very distant, is not connected, doesn't have empathy. So I think it helped her understand or even catalog something she had already known but couldn't quite put her finger on.

[Kathryn Burns]

At the end of the story, you talk about how you recently engaged in a sort of self imposed cognitive therapy where you decided to try to behave like a more compassionate, considerate father, husband, friend, even though you don't always feel like one. And I was wondering how that's going.

[James Fallon]

You know, I figured that if I said it during the moth talk, I would have to do it because people said, well, you know, because it was like a public announcement of it, even though not too many people would care, but I would know it's out there.

[Interviewer]

So I had to do it.

[James Fallon]

So I kind of said it during that as a reminder, just in case I got lazy or off on it. So I have actually been doing that and my wife and my mother, the kids and the grandkids and my really close friends do appreciate it.

[Interviewer]

It's not because I'm a nice guy. It's like, I don't want to be humiliated and disgraced. That's probably an ego thing too, but why not?

[James Fallon]

I mean, certain, you have to, you have to trick yourself a little bit to get to change things in your life.

[Kathryn Burns]

I think to hear more of my interview with James Fallon and see a picture of his actual brain scan, you can go to our website, themoth.org while you're there. Pitch is your own story. We listen to every single pitch that comes in and many are being developed for our main stage right now. We really are listening. So please call now if you have a story you'd like us to hear. When we come back, comedian Rachel Dratch tells us why, when it comes to acupuncture, it's better not to scrimp.

[Zillow Representative]

The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, and presented by the Public Radio Exchange.

[Kathryn Burns]

PRX.org this is the Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Kathryn Burns, artistic director of the Moth. Our last story is from former Saturday Night Live cast member Rachel Dratch. Here's Rachel live at the Moth.

[Audience Member]

Hi. Okay, so I was on Saturday Night Live for seven years, and my contract was up, and I was supposed to star in a new show called 30 Rock in the role of Jenna. Have you guys seen 30 Rock? Yeah, I'm not Jenna. So everything sort of started to dry up, and I wasn't getting any jobs, any auditions, and I decided, you know what? I am not going to sit around and just mope around my apartment. I'm going to take this time to do all the things that I didn't have time to do when I was a working actor. So I did all those little things on my list. Like, I actually took Spanish class, you know, that kind of stuff. And I dog sat for my friend's dog. I was a dog owner for a month, you know, because I wouldn't have had time to do that if I was a TV star. And so, and then I decided to take on the biggest challenge of all. I decided to try dating in New York. Now, I had never actually really been on a real date before. Like, I mean, probably a little bit, but not a lot of dates where you're like, how many brothers and sisters do you have? Like, that kind of thing. My dating life consisted mainly of meeting someone in your workplace in my place that was comedy dating them, and then three months into it, finding out they were an addict of some sort. Alcohol, pot, sex addict. Not with me, mind you, but a sex addict, and then dating them for a whole other year before it had a. That's like a tragic demise. So I decided that if I was going to go on some real dates and go out and meet people, that I was going to have to get out of my comfort zones, which were keeping me from dating. The first comfort zone was just hanging out with comedy dudes who you work with and that you can flirt with all night, and they're sort of like your fake boyfriend. But then you always go home alone or the second one was just like, going out to dinner with your girlfriends in New York, would you? You can do, like, every night and not meet anybody new. And then my third one was hanging out with my gay man friends, you know, going to, like, a Broadway show and cocktails or something. So I was like, I need to stop hanging out my comfort zone. So imagine my happiness when I got invited to this party from this guy who was hosting it, who I met at Burning Man. Yes. I. Yeah, the fact that I went to Burning man is a whole other story. That's for another night. But. So I was all excited about this party because this guy, he went to Stanford and he was in business. And I was like, this is so not my crowd. I mean, it's my crowd in my fantasy world, but it's not my crowd in my New York life. So I was like, yes, I'm going to go to this party and really try to get out and meet people. So actually, I was challenged because about two nights before the party, I was invited to go for free to Billy Elliot with my gay friend Chris. But I was like, no, Rachel, you cannot go to the Broadway show. You have to go to this party. So I went to the party, and almost immediately, I was rewarded for stepping out of the comfort zone because my friend, who I was supposed to meet there, was late. So that forced me to talk to strangers. And I'm pretty shy, actually. So, like, I was just standing by the. You know, I didn't know anyone at this party. I was standing by the little hors d'oeuvre table, and this guy walked up and I was like, hi. Now, for me, that's, like, huge that I actually initiated. And so we started chatting, and this guy, he was really cute, and he was a scientist, which I was like, that's so cool. Someone else might meet an actor and think that's so cool. But I'm like, oh, you have a regular job, you know? And so he was like, funny. Actually, at one point I asked. I was like, what's your name? And he had just put some food in his mouth. So he's like, hold on a second. And then he was like, I know what you do, and I think you'd have better timing than that. And I thought that was kind of cool. Like, he was like, I recognize you, but I'm not going to really say it. So. So anyway, okay. So we were just totally hitting it off. Like, this guy, like, I said, he was, like, smart, and it turns out, like, he spoke fluent Japanese. I was like, Whoo. So I was just on board. And so it all happened like it does. Like these dates I've seen on TV or the movies, but never in my life. Because this guy, like, we were just talking about our favorite restaurants in New York, and I said, mine. He's like, oh, we should go there sometime. Give me your number. It was like, what? So it was all so smooth and natural, and it was all working just. Just like on tv. So I was all excited. Oh, for the purpose of the story, this guy's name was Steve, but his real name was Brent. So the next morning, I woke up and I was, like, all excited. I was like, well, who knows if he'll really call? Well, he texted me at noon the next day. I was like, that is good. Noon. And he was like, do you want to go out Friday or Saturday night? I was like, Friday or. Those are real date nights. That's not like, you want to meet up Monday at 10 after? It was like, no, Friday or Saturday. So I was, like, all excited about this. So I was just so happy that week. I was, you know, I had the potential of love in my life, and I was just like, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. And then. But then on Thursday, so we're supposed to go out Saturday night. But then on Thursday, I went to Trader Joe's and disaster struck because I picked up a gro. I was checking out, picked up my grocery bag. It wasn't even a heavy bag at all. I don't know what the hell was happening, but I picked up this bag and my whole back went out. It was like spring. And so I had to walk home like this, you know, like an old lady. And I was thinking the first thing was like, oh, no, this date is in two nights from now. And I was like, does God not want me to date? Like, why is this happening? The only time I'm excited now. This back thing had only happened one other time in my life, and that was back when I was on snl. It was the read through, which is like, everyone's around, like, the cast, the host Lorne Michaels, the whole staff is in this one room. And I was walking back to my chair during the break, and I sort of stumbled. Like, nothing major, but my whole back really went out that time. Like, I couldn't move. I was on the floor and I was writhing. It was like a charley horse, but up your whole back. So I was like. And I couldn't even move an inch that time. So they were like, does anyone have any pain medication? Does Anyone have muscle relaxants? Now, if this had been the 70s, it would have been, you know, a pile of pills thrown on the table, but nobody, it was clean living time now. So nobody had any. Even the host was Johnny Knoxville. Even he didn't have any. He said they were back in his hotel room, so they had to send down for the NBC doctor. And I was like, paralyzed. I happened to fall, so my head was kind of under the conference table. Well, eventually there was no point in just waiting for me because I was like, there, stuck. So they just started the read through up again and someone else was reading my parts. I couldn't even. I was just like, I was squeezing the doctor's hand. And every so often Lauren would be like, is Rachel okay down there? And they'd be like, no, she still can't talk. So anyway, that took like two hours to recover from. So I was so dreading this date because I was like, what if that happens on the date and I'm in some East Village restaurant and I have to be carted off in an ambulance or something? It would be so embarrassing. So Saturday day of the day comes along and my back still isn't better. So a friend of mine's like, well, what about acupuncture? And I was looking for a miracle because I was so excited about this guy. So I started to call up some acupuncturists on a Saturday to see. Can you take me in two hours? So none of the ones that were recommended could take me. So then I went to the acupuncturist that was not recommended. And I'd like to tell you all that that is a business. You want a reference, don't do the walk in on the acupuncture. I went to one of those Chinese storefront joints that my friend Chris, he had gotten massages there. And I'd actually met the doctor of Eastern medicine there. And he looked like a good guy. So he's like, they can see you. So I went in there. Well, that guy was nowhere to be found. It was this woman sitting there in a chair. And I was like, oh, no, no, this is not going to be good. But I went through with it. Like, I did not follow my gut. And I'm still convinced that she was just a masseuse who they let do acupuncture on the weekends because she led me back, you know, those curtains. And another thing you don't want in a medical establishment is the smell of cat pee. That's just another little tip for you. But so she brought me back in the curtains. I was like, I'm kind of nervous. She's like, don't be nervous, like. And then she. She stuck 2 kn. First needle back of the knee. You might think they'd ease you in a little bit, but no, it was like, back of the knee. It hurt so much. Like, I don't think it was supposed to hurt that much. The back was fine, but the back of the knee and the inside of the ankle were the two killers. And she'd come by every so often and twist them, and, like, the pain would shoot up my leg. And it was like. And I was going, like, no, not the knee, not the knee. Like. And there were just curtains of people getting massages, just hearing, like, Stephanie. Anyway, it didn't help at all. My back was still the same, but now I had this, like, nausea of thinking of the knee needles, you know, So I had to fight that off. Anyway, so I go on the date, and I wasn't, like, 100% feeling good, you know, so we didn't have that same sort of sparkly rapport that we had the first night because I was in pain, but I told him my back hurt, but I didn't want to be like, I have back problems. So I didn't really go into so much detail about it. I was kind of trying to sit comfortably, so I went, okay. So then we said, okay, we'll go out again. He was going away on business, and we decided we'd see each other again. So I did have two little red flags about this guy. But I decided, I'm not going to tell my friends about these red flags because, like, what if it turns out to be nothing and then, you know, I end up marrying this guy? Then I don't want some friend asking about that red flag again. So the first red flag was just alcohol. Like, he just drank a lot that night. Like, I was still nursing glass of wine for the bar. We ordered a bottle of wine at the table, and he drank basically the whole bottle of wine. And then we went somewhere else for cocktails. He had, like, nine drinks that night. But, you know, I was willing to give it a pass. I was like, maybe he's nervous, you know? So anyway, okay, so then. Oh, but you know what? The red flag was not whatever. Like, it kept growing, growing, because he emailed me from his business trip being like, well, my liver is really, you know, my liver needs a break after these business trips. And then he was, like, spending every night at my friend's whiskey bar, and I Was just thinking, oh, well, I'm still gonna ignore it though. Okay. So then he gets back and he asked me on a Wednesday. He asked me out for a Friday night. And so I was, you know, I was rehearsing this musical and I hadn't heard from him all day on Friday. So I text him at 6pm Finally, I'm still at this rehearsal. I was like, hey, what's up for tonight? Well, I get a text back from him. Not a phone call, mind you. I get a text back and it said, busy with this work thing. Maybe I'll see you when you get back from la. That was two months from now. Two months from now. So basically I got like, face plant. I was just so shocked that he just asked me out, but now he's blowing me up. And I felt like. Just like he'd asked me out movie style. And I was so excited I was getting blown off movie style. Now it was like that harsh, like being stood up, basically, like I'd only seen in the movies. Now it was happening to me and I was. I was really upset about it too. But. But then I. Now that I knew that we weren't really going to be dating and, you know, we weren't even making out, I was free to tell my friends about the other red flag. So when we were at this bar, he said that when he was traveling in Japan, he ate at this restaurant that only served horse meat. And I was kind of like, oh, horse meat? But he was like, no, it's the most delicious meat you'll ever try. Like, he was just reveling in it. I was thinking, like, isn't that. That's not so good to tell a woman on your first date that, you know, you're really into horse meat? Because what if I was one of those girls who had the plastic horse statues growing up? Or, I mean, I wasn't, but what if I was? It just seems like not a thing to really tell a woman, like, I'm really into horse meat, but. And then he said, I'm still reeling for that. And he said, have you ever wondered what it'd be like to taste human flesh? And he didn't say it, like, how you might say, you know, some parlor game, like, would you rather walk 10 miles in the snow or eat human flesh? No, it was like he had given it some thought. Like he was. Like he was seeking out the opportunity somewhere. Maybe there was a restaurant somewhere in the world. And just kind of like the phrase silence of the lambs popped into my head when he said that? And I was like no. And he's like, really? Wouldn't you just be curious? And I said no, because I would just be wondering, who is this? And how did they end up on my plate? But anyway, so then I thought, well, you know what? Maybe it's not that God doesn't want me to date. Maybe God sprung out my back so that I could avoid dating this guy, this alcoholic cannibal for a whole year, wasting another year of my life on that. So I got on the plane to la where I was going to go do this musical, and there I was rehearsing the musical, surrounded by gay men. I was back in my comfort zone. I thought I'd stay there for a while. Thank you.

[Kathryn Burns]

That was Rachel Dratch. She joined the cast of Saturday Night Live in the fall of 1999 and stayed for seven seasons. Her memoir has the slightly hard to say out loud title Girl Walks Into a Calamities, Dating Disasters and a Midlife Miracle. All of the stories you've heard this hour are available at the iTunes store. That's it for the Moth Radio Hour. Join us next time. And that's the story from the Moth.

[Zillow Representative]

Your host this hour was Kathryn Burns, artistic director of the Moth. Kathryn also directed the stories in the show. The rest of the Moss directorial staff include Sarah Haberman, Sarah Austin, Janess, Jennifer Hickson and Meg Bowles. Production support from Jenna Weiss Berman and Brandon Echter. Moth Stories Are True is remembered and affirmed by the Storytellers. Moth events are recorded by Argo Studios in New York City supervised by Paul Ruast. Our theme music is by the Drift. Other music in this hour from Blue Man Group, Matthias Bossi and the original cast of Billy Elliot. The Moth is produced for radio by me, Jay Allison at Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts with help from Vicki Merrick. This hour was produced with funds from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, the National Endowment for the Arts and the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur foundation, committed to building a more just Ferdinand and peaceful world. The Moth Radio Hour is presented by the public radio exchange prx.org for more about our podcast. For information on how to pitch your own story and everything else, go to our website themoth.org.

[Dan Kennedy]

That'S all for this week. We will be back next week and thanks to all of you for listening. We hope you have a story worthy week.

[Showtime Representative]

Dan Kennedy is author of the books Loser Goes First Rock on and American Spirit. He's a regular host and performer with the Moth when he's not on Twitter.

[Dan Kennedy]

Moth Events are recorded by Argo Studios in New York City, supervised by by Paul Ruest. Podcast audio production by Whitney Jones. The Moth Podcast and the Radio Hour are presented by prx, the Public Radio Exchange, helping make public radio more [e-mail].