Ep 160. The Instagram Brotherhood: Networking Your Way to a Better Trade

Summary

Summary of The Mulder Life Podcast – Ep 160

Title: The Instagram Brotherhood: Networking Your Way to a Better Trade
Host: Andy Mulder
Guest: Eric Helm (“Eric Groundsmaster” on Instagram)
Original Air Date: March 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

This live episode dives deep into the power of networking in the landscaping and construction trades, particularly through Instagram. Andy Mulder hosts Eric Helm of Grounds Master—a seasoned landscape contractor from Montana. Together, they explore Eric’s business journey, the ups and downs of entrepreneurship, the importance of relationships (both locally and online), weathering economic downturns, and the profound role of mentorship and knowledge sharing in the social media age. Their candid conversation is sprinkled with practical advice, heartfelt anecdotes, and actionable insights.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Eric’s Business Journey & Philosophy

• Early Beginnings:
  • Started mowing lawns for money as a child (“My grandpa Helm was my first customer” — [07:30]) and officially launched Grounds Master in 1998.
  • Built custom trailers, grew the client base, and was entrepreneurial from a young age.
  • Gradually expanded from lawn care into landscaping, excavation, and forestry management.
• Growth & Challenges:
  • Grew to multiple crews and a dozen staff by the mid-2000s, with a versatile fleet.
  • Survived the 2008 crash by maintaining long-term client relationships and shifting focus to maintenance.
• Resilience & Adaptation:
  • Downsized after the recession, focused on core, high-quality, detail-oriented work.
  • Credits sustained business to word-of-mouth, quality, and strong community ties:
    • “Almost every single client from the beginning, we still do work for… and we’re redoing the entire project for a second time…" ([27:54])
  • Currently runs a lean, intentionally smaller operation, prioritizing quality and sustainability.

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2. The Power of Networking & The Instagram Brotherhood

• Organic, Online Relationships:
  • Both Andy and Eric emphasize genuine connections made on Instagram.
  • “I have built some incredibly close, valuable friends nationwide, even worldwide, through this little app that I never expected.” — Eric ([51:08])
• Real-life Impact:
  • Eric recounts a cross-country truck-buying trip where he met several Instagram colleagues in person, including John Welch, James Doyle, Ben Canonica, and Lucas from Arctic:
    • “Every stop, they were like, come stay at my house, let’s have dinner, let’s see the shop.” ([59:03–62:18])
• Information and Mentorship:
  • Social media and forums now provide easy access to technical knowledge that was once hard-won.
  • Eric credits Instagram for both learning new techniques and sharing his own hard-earned lessons with others:
    • “Present day, the young guys… can access so much more information just by following you, me, Jeremy, Ryan with rock structures…” ([25:05])

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3. Lessons from Growth, Setbacks, and Rebuilding

• Surviving Economic Crisis:
  • The 2008 crash decimated construction work; Eric relied on the maintenance side and core client base to survive.
  • Many contractors in his region were forced to leave the industry or move away for work:
    • “If we didn’t have those relationships… I’d have been completely out of business when everything crashed.” ([31:03])
• Business Adjustments Post-Crash:
  • Adopted principles from Dave Ramsey’s program after 2008 to improve financial management.
  • Downsized operations, returned (partially) to hands-on work, ultimately chose to stay smaller until systems, structures, and lifestyle were sustainable:
    • “I came to a point where I was like, I’m not going to regrow until I can get a better, healthier business model in place.” ([64:40])
• The Emotional Toll:
  • Candidly discusses the pain of letting long-term employees go and the burden of rebuilding:
    • “That was the most painful part, was having to disband a crew that had been loyal to me.” ([37:59])
  • Navigated personal difficulties at home during the downturn (wife’s postpartum challenges and young children), adding to the complexity of the period.

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4. Quality, Mentorship, and Legacy

• Commitment to Quality:
  • Self-taught in hardscape and water feature work; meticulous about standards:
    • “I’ve always been a stickler for quality… I can literally take you or a client to almost every single project I’ve done from the beginning and they’re all still standing.” ([25:45])
• Long-Term Client Relationships:
  • Still serves many original clients, with most new work coming through referrals or repeat business.
• “Mentorship” Approach:
  • Eric resists labeling himself a mentor but believes in “sharing experiences from one friend to another.” ([50:43])
  • Advocates for humility and openness to learning, no matter how long you’ve been in the trade:
    • “You never stop learning… if you’re humble enough to ask or to listen, the amount of knowledge you can learn is unbelievable.” — Andy ([55:49])

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5. Challenges of Growth and Team Management

• Scaling with Caution:
  • Andy and Eric discuss the risks of adding crews and the necessity of solid systems.
  • “You really could get yourself in a huge mess quickly… if you’re trying to keep the quality up super high.” — Andy ([44:18])
• Training and Communication:
  • It’s tough to transfer all the mental modeling and hands-on experience to new employees quickly, especially on complex/technical job sites.
  • Both reflect on the difficulty of teaching “site management” and strategic planning to others:
    • “Job site management and material management… takes a lot of training to teach that.” — Andy ([70:42])
  • The value of retaining patient, detail-oriented foremen—“the right people in the right seat on the bus.”

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Growing Up in the Trades:
  • “I’ve been mowing lawns for money since I was like eight… When I was 11, I rode the lawnmower to most of them.” – Eric ([07:30], [12:43])
• On Economic Survival:
  • “Maintenance side… kept things afloat, barely, but enough to keep things going until things started to recover.” – Eric ([33:05])
• On the Instagram Network:
  • “This little app has created this value relationally, you know, with the trades, with the work and just so many levels that I never, ever expected.” – Eric ([63:39])
• On Mentorship & Learning:
  • “If you’re humble enough to ask or to listen, I think that the amount of knowledge you can learn is unbelievable.” – Andy ([55:49])
• On Business Resilience:
  • “You have to manage your situation well… so that you can let go of control.” – Eric ([65:41])
• On Letting Go:
  • “That was the most painful part, was having to disband a crew that had been loyal to me.” – Eric ([37:59])
• On the Value of Relationships:
  • “Literally everything is word of mouth, and we really kind of got a core group of clients that just keep feeding us work.” – Eric ([30:41])
• On The Illusion of Social Media:
  • “It’s super easy. You just post on social media. If you take the right photo, all that stuff looks like you got it figured out.” – Andy ([76:23])

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Notable Timestamps

• [07:16–14:16] — Eric shares how his business started and grew from childhood yard work into a full-service operation.
• [15:09–28:54] — Transitioning to landscaping, key early jobs, and equipment investments.
• [31:03–36:20] — The 2008 crash, survival strategies, and pivot to maintenance and smaller projects.
• [40:36–44:18] — Emotional toll of layoffs, rebuilding, and the difficulty of managing growth.
• [50:25–63:39] — The impact of “The Instagram Brotherhood”: networking, supporting peers, and real-life meetups.
• [64:40–67:54] — Eric’s current decision to stay small and focus on systems before regrowth.
• [70:42–76:23] — Challenges of site management, employee development, and the importance of communication.

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Tone & Language

• Reflective, sincere, and practical: Both Andy and Eric share hard truths, practical lessons, and emotional moments openly.
• Supportive and community-driven: There’s a strong emphasis on encouragement, ongoing learning, and the positive impact of peer relationships.
• Conversational and in-the-trenches: Both speakers talk like colleagues and friends, with jargon, anecdotes, and mutual respect.

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Conclusion / Takeaways

• Networking—especially via social media—can enrich your skillset, give you support in tough times, and open unexpected doors.
• Long-term success comes from resilience, humility, relationship-building, and a willingness to adapt.
• Scaling a business in the trades requires intention, transparency with your team, constant learning, and sound systems—otherwise, “you could get yourself in a huge mess quickly.”
• Never lose sight of the importance of quality, client trust, and your own health and family well-being.

How to connect:
Follow Eric Helm on Instagram: @eric.groundsmaster
Listen live Monday nights, 8:30pm Central, on @mulderoutdoors.

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[This summary omits sponsor segments, intros/outros, and non-content interludes.]

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to this week's episode of the Molded Life podcast, a live show featuring your questions about all things landscaping, equipment, business and life. Join our live show weekly on Instagram Older outdoors, Monday nights, 8:30pm Central Standard Time to ask your questions or tune in here for the replay.

[B]

And now from the Incon Studios Incon, a world leading manufacturer of tilt rotators and attachments enhancing your business. Here's your host, Andy Mulder.

[A]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Molder Life podcast. We are live here Monday night in the N Con Studios and I am excited to be here with you guys tonight. And we have a special guest with us tonight. And before we get started with that, I want to say our thanks to our sponsors this week. Pave Tool Innovators. Pave Tool.com Go check them out if you have not. And our coupon code for them is molder outdoors 50 recently changed the coupon code for that, but go check them out. Edging, suction, equipment, clamps, all kinds of different stuff like that. You will not be disappointed in that, that's for sure. So big thanks to them for being a sponsor. Also synced up, synced up project management software. Go check them out syncedup.com and we'll get started with the show here. So today we have a special guest with us, Eric Helm. From Eric on Instagram. It's Eric. Eric Groundmaster Grounds Master. And Eric, thanks for being on with us today.

[C]

Yeah, thank you, Andy.

[A]

Yeah, so I've gotten to know Eric just through Instagram really, and I, I feel like you followed me a long time and then I don't know, I don't know how long, but we started talking to different things or DMS or whatever. And I've enjoyed watching the different things that you build and whatever. Just kind of, I guess, created a kind of a small Internet friendship. And then I just thought, uh, I was on Instagram the other day and I thought, man, it'd be cool to have Eric on the show and just hear about his story and about his business and take questions like we do every single week live here on the podcast. And so if anybody wants to ask questions of me or Eric or any, anything, feel free in the, in the chat here to ask questions and we can, we can get started. So Eric, I, I just want to say thanks for being on the show and uh, yeah. So how you doing?

[C]

I'm good. And thank you, Andy. I feel honored for this request. I think I started following you in your early days when you took Possession of your first Takuchi loader and mini excavator.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[C]

And you did that huge hardscape retaining wall, series of retaining walls. They were curvy and you had just taken possession of those machines.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

How many years ago that was?

[A]

Man? That would have been. Was that when we Iowa for that?

[C]

I think so.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Wow. That would have been. Ah, man. Eight or nine. Eight. Eight or nine years ago now. Okay. Quite a while ago. Yeah, man, I. That job. I will never travel out of state for work again, I'll tell you that.

[C]

I think your b. Your dad had hauled your machines in.

[A]

Yes, exactly. Yeah.

[C]

I just remember you were grinning ear to ear and you know, rightfully so. Yeah, there's a lot of special things that are going on for you and I totally stuck in my mind long term.

[A]

I appreciate that. Yeah, I. The photos from that with my dad and, and different things that I have footage wise from when we did that. I, I really enjoy going back and looking at that stuff. And it was really. He. He was, he was probably more excited about it than I was just doing it. He was just really excited to haul our equipment and hauled. He hauled a bunch of plants out there for us. And I will say, like, as we've grown as a company, like the more trucking that I have done for jobs and like equipment moving and like, it's like, man, every time I see a semi roll into one of my job sites with a flatbed or whatever, I'm like, man, wish my dad was here, you know. But it's all good. So. So Eric, I, I'd love for you to, I don't know, I guess tell the listeners a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your business, maybe some history and we can talk about whatever, a few qu. A few things in the comments. Real quick before we do that. Eric 45 says, Are you going to Con Expo? Yeah, I'm going there just Thursday and Friday this week. Uh, I was going to leave tonight, I was gonna leave tomorrow morning. But then two weeks ago I decided to start a project with a second crew based on weather and availability of all kinds of things. And I needed to start that job this week and I didn't feel comfortable leaving the guys the second day on the job. And so I'm gonna go there Thursday and Friday this week. Harlan Jones, realtor says, hey, what's your Brunt workwear code? Molder Outdoors. I think it's Mulder outdoors 10 I believe so. And Promo Landscape wants to know if he can pick up my E20. Oh, can I pick up the E20 with the deer? Eric, this guy, promo landscape. He's been trying to buy my E20 for me for about four years now, I swear. But I. Yeah, I have this Bobcat E20 with an. With a tilt rotator. And I have. I don't use it as much as I should, really. And it's just one of those things, like, you know, I have it and it's paid for and it's not bothering anybody. And I swear the day that I sell it is the day that I'm going to need it. So you absolutely need it.

[C]

You know, I have that Kubota U17 and I bought it fall of 06.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And it holds 3000 hours now. You know, it does not see a lot of use, but it is a key piece of equipment at times.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And if you said, eric, I'm selling my E20, I would I pay you a visit.

[A]

Well, and now, like, we're getting the shop built. Like, it's like, okay, now it'll sit inside and like, sometimes I just feel bad it sits. It sits outside a lot because I don't have anywhere to put it. But now we'll have a shop and we could put it inside. So I probably. Once I get it inside, I probably won't sell it.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

But anyway, so Eric, why don't you. I mean, for anybody that listening that doesn't know what you do or your company or. I'd love to hear some. Some of your background and, and even for my own, I just love to listen to guys that, you know how. I mean, you've been doing landscaping and this kind of stuff for a long time. Hardscaping water features. So I'd love to hear about that.

[C]

So the official name of the business is grounds master. I started it in 1998. You know, technically, I have been mowing lawns for money since I was like eight.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

My grandpa. My grandpa Helm was my first customer. He was a mile away from where my parents live today and ride the John Deere lawnmower over there.

[A]

Mow the lawn.

[C]

He had like an acre. When I was 11, we dad helped me create flyers on the computer and put them in a bunch of mailboxes around the neighborhood. And that summer I think I picked up seven or eight lawns. And so basically from 11 through high school, you know, I had basically those eight lawns. They were all within about a two mile radius of the house. And when I was 11, I rode the lawnmower to most of them. When I was 12, dad got a tilt snowmobile trailer and pulled me around a couple times in the pickup. And then he was like, you can just drive yourself. And we're in a pretty rural area and you know, I'd already been driving the pickup there at the homestead since I was 10. So from 12 to 15 I drove all over the neighborhood doing the lawn care and then got my license the day I turned 15. That's where it was in Montana. Then I worked for the primary landscape company in high school. There was one main company, they're still in business today. Delaney's Landscape worked for them one summer. And then one of my childhood best friends, his dad had an excavation business, Big John Backhoe.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And John had excavated for my parents several times, did their addition. And there's pictures of me helping John in quotations with my Tonka toys when I was 6. And his son Jasper became a lifelong best friend. And I worked for him off and on through high school. And then the first and second winter after I officially started my business in 98, I worked for him running his excavator. You know, I started with lawn care in 98. I built a trailer. It's similar to the one that you guys can see on my Instagram. Now. The self loading lawn trailer looks like a self loading garbage truck.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, it's designed for a walker mower. To back up on the passenger side the, you know, the loading bucket drops to the ground. Fill it two or three times out of the walker mower and then it self loads like a garbage truck. And then the whole hopper tips to the driver's side, you know, to unload and empty it. So I built my first trailer in 98, winter 97. 98, in the shop at the farm where I was working. Bought my first walker mower. And then the next winter sold that first trailer, built a second one in the same in the farm shop again, bought a second walker mower. And my future brother in law became my first employee. He was 14, he was homeschooled and his mom was like, I need you to just get him out of my hair. Get him out of the house. I don't even care if you pay him, but he needs to do something productive.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

So he became my first employee. That would be Andrew Arthur. And for any of you guys that are into the Ford's powerstrokes, he has AA design and tuning and you know, present day he is a die hard Ford powerstroke specialist. And, and that all started with him coming to work for Me, my first Ford truck I bought in 99 but just still have today the green F350 diesel.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

When you know that truck started it for Andrew, my brother in law started the Ford trend for the entire family. I think we have 15, 16, 17 Ford diesels amongst the family now.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And then, you know, and Andrew was a Ford certified tech. He went to school, got the degree, worked for Ford. Now he's doing his own thing. He's tied in with KC Turbos and he can do live tuning and performance and anyway, so you know, that was my first employee. Started with one Walker mower, got two, ended up getting married. Yeah. Originally started the business thinking I want to go to college. I really wanted to go to an engineering school down in Texas. It was a private schools called Letourneau University. I wanted to get a mechanical engineering degree from there badly but it was expensive and there's some other things hold me back at that time. But you know, originally started the lawn care like officially in 98.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

You know, after having it through high school, I was like, okay, I'm not ready to go to college yet. Didn't have the money. My dad was having some health issues then that just had me leery. And I thought, well, I'll try this lawn care thing, see if it turns into something, maybe I could sell it. And it ended up taking off pretty good. And to this day, we still serve probably half of those original clients.

[A]

No kidding.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

That's awesome.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

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[A]

50.

[C]

The Lawn Care side of the business is small. It's like 20 clients.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

But almost every one of those clients has been with me either from 98 or maybe as late as 2005.

[A]

Okay. So are you, are you mowing yourself still?

[C]

Occasionally.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

The last couple years my daughter Haley was doing it, my wife Andrea was doing it. In the years past, you know, we were up to about 40 lawn care accounts in the early days and you know, the first two years I was doing it, you know, day in, day out, six days a week and then had my brother in law and then, you know, eventually grew into more employees and then, you know, eventually had a crew take that over.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And then around 2000, 2001, started getting a lot of requests from clients, you know, to do improvements. And I'd always wanted to get into excavation or landscaping if I didn't go to school for college.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And so, you know, little jobs came up and I already had the experience and the interest and you know, so we started renting equipment. Late middle 2001, started getting more serious about it, you know, transitioning or growing into the landscape and excavation side of things. At the same time we were doing forestry work. You know, Instagram has not seen that side of me. But my early years, my parents have 40 acres, you know, on the side of a small mountain. And it was heavily timbered and it needed managed and I needed money in the winters.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And so with a rented Bobcat excavator and the John Deere tractor, I had bought a winch from the John Deere dealer, farming winch and in the winter months started logging. You know, not commercial, you know, timber sale type logging, but you know, we'd call it like a, a low impact, you know, forest management. And it started with my parents place and then did a whole bunch of people in the neighborhood, you know, other clients around the lake. And of course when we have bad fire years, that kicks off the interest for people to want to do that, you know, to manage their forest.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So that was kind of the early days. You know, rented the excavator for a year, approached the bank about, you know, wanting to buy an excavator and a track loader. Bobcat had just come out with the first track loader, the 864. I think Takauchi was the only track loader manufacturer prior to that, at that time that I'm aware of, anyway. Talked to the banker and he was like, you know, Eric, go rent that equipment for a year. Prove to me, prove to yourself that you can justify renting long term and then we'll get you set up. Wow.

[A]

So that's the advice they gave you.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

You would think they should do that more nowadays.

[C]

Yeah, well, you know, we, we'd already had about a three year relationship at that point. Had the lawn care side of things. The banker come from an agriculture background out of central California. So he, you know, he had a nice mix of business sense and blue collar ag sense.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So yeah, that was the deal. He's like Garrett, you know, you got to prove it to you, you got to prove it to me on paper, you know, get the work. And so that's what we did. Got a connection with the Bobcat dealer. Allcat salesman was super good to me. He let me demo that 864 track loader for way longer than he should have. He put a lot of trust and faith in me. But early 2002 got the approval for financing. By September of 02, I had the first package and bought the 864 track loader. Bought the 341 Bobcat excavator that you see in my posts now. Yeah, Complete package of attachments.

[A]

So that's your. The. That was your first machine, like first excavator. And you still have it?

[C]

Yes sir.

[A]

That's awesome.

[C]

Yeah. Bought it September of O2.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And it was beautiful. You know. And I got it loaded up then, you know, 12 inch bucket, 2 foot bucket, 3 foot bucket, 52 inch smooth bucket, power angle tilt, you know. Then the rotating clamshell bucket. And then I got the dumping hopper for the Bobcat. I got the dozer blade, I got the grater blade, I got the soil conditioner, I got the four in one bucket. I got the forks. I mean, you know, I bought a whole package.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

You know, like got my wish list checked off and you know, so that's when we deliberately grew into the expansion of, you know, the full service landscape company. And it just grew from there. By 03, we. The growth took off pretty quick from that point.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Late 03 I picked up a huge block wall job. I can't remember how many square feet, you know, the, like a keystone block type project.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So at that point I had enough work going on that I needed to create a second crew. And that's when I rented the 442 Bobcat excavator that you see in my post today. And then the T300 Bobcat truck loader. I rented those at an RPO for that job for initially three months and then six months and then turn those into a finance package and ended up with those long term.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, to this day I still have that 442excavator. And that thing has been a pivotal, a key element to the, the equipment fleet.

[A]

So how, how many hours are on those machines now?

[C]

The 341 excavator sitting at 7,000 hours. It just turned 7,000 hours this last job last week. The 442 excavators at 7,600 hours.

[A]

Man, that's awesome.

[C]

Yeah, they've held up better and longer than I anticipated. You know, by 06, 07 I had added to those, I had the, I added the U15 Kubota. And then early 07 let's, you know. Yeah, early 07 I added a Kubota 161 dash three excavator. And by late 07 I. Not even late middle 07, I added a deer 75C. You know, so by that point we had five excavators in the fleet. And then you know, I had added that Deere wheel loader. Yeah, five. And so basically by 06, pretty steadily always had two construction projects going. Had between 10 and 12 people on staff. You know, so there was the mo crew and then generally two construction projects underway at all times.

[A]

And you were running jobs or you were selling and run and I mean you were working on the jobs or you were just selling or what?

[C]

You know, I was, I was doing both.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[C]

It was still, you know, like most of us, you know, very hands on. You know, 07, 08, you know, I was starting to transition into more administration type, you know, and less hands on.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But then, you know, when we got into the technical projects, the hardscapes, the water features, know when the detail really started coming into play, you know, that, that just required me to be present.

[A]

Yeah, I get it.

[C]

Very few, yeah. You know, very few of those jobs would have blueprints, you know, especially with the stone work and the water feature work. Yeah, you know that really turns into an artistic creation if you care about it.

[A]

Yep, totally. And so all of. So ultimately when you were coming up in the hardscape, I mean you're all self taught ultimately, right?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Yes. You know, I had the tiny bit of experience in high school with the local landscape company and we built a couple block walls but no patios. You know, they were then and Even present day, they're more of a greenscape, you know, far more planting, irrigation, sod. Yeah, you know, the generic landscape type stuff, you know, once we started taking on patios and retaining walls, I was basically 100% self taught.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, I had a little bit of mentoring. There was, you know, I mentioned big John Backo, John Dorndorff. There was a little mentors there, a couple other guys in the trades. There was another buddy, the same age that he was doing full time excavation. You know, there's some mentoring there. Yeah, he was local. But you know, this was long before the days of social media. You know, it was out of a book, you know, or you know, just trial and error learning, you know, we're present day, you know, we have so much more knowledge at our fingertips.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, with the phone, with the Internet, you know, and then in the last 10, 12, maybe 15 years at most, you know, the social media, you know, the young guys today can access so much more information just by following you, me, Jeremy, you know, Ryan with rock structures, you know, any of the guys that have time under their belt, you know, so. Yeah, self taught. And that definitely came with some learning curves.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[C]

Primarily a pricing, you know, gathering the reality of the timeline required to put out a quality project. Yeah, I've always been a stickler for quality and I know a lot of guys say that, but like I can literally take you or a client to almost every single project I've done from the beginning and they're all still standing. They're all still not. No settling.

[A]

That's awesome.

[C]

No failures. You know, I had enough common sense or understanding of frost, you know, clay soil, sandy soils, drainage, stuff like that. You know, I didn't, didn't have to deal with the, the lack of knowledge or the, I don't know, you and I both seen it. There's some guys that just don't know what they're doing. They say yes to a project and you know, you and I get the call later when the project is suddenly falling apart or. Right. Just never been down that road. And some of that, you know, one, I had an interest in Desire. And then two, you know, as I shared earlier, almost every single client from the beginning, we still do work for almost every project. Yeah, I mean the mountaintop water feature project that you guys see me post annually on, there's a whole story to that. But I mean, we've been going up there almost every year since 2006. Wow. You know, for the same owners, the same clients were redoing the entire project for a second time. And that's not because of anything I did wrong. That's because their general contractor, who built their home, screwed up in the biggest ways possible on an epic scale.

[B]

You sweat, you struggle, you're the first one there in the morning, the last one out at night. You don't need another issue to deal with. In fact, if someone or something could pull a few things off your plate, that'd be amazing, right? That's what synced up is for. How about we take care of the knowing your numbers part and streamline your operations for your cruise? While we're at it, how would it sound to have every job priced for profit Synced up does invoicing, scheduling, time tracking, and syncs with quickbooks online. All job info, notes, photos and lists are easily available to your crews. Even work hours are tracked for automatic payroll. And the big one, every job is job costed automatically. Visit syncedup.com/nk edub and book a demo today.

[C]

The point is, almost every project you see me post, I have already done at least one project, if not several, for that client.

[A]

Yeah, that's fantastic, man.

[C]

You know, you guys see my stuff? You know, I don't have any of my equipment lettered. I don't have my trucks lettered. And you asked me yesterday for, you know, a business logo picture, and I'm like, andy, I don't have one.

[A]

I like that. I. I like that.

[C]

It's just, I've been in it long enough.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[C]

I mean, literally the last time I had a business logo made was like 1998 or 99. And that was for the walker mower in the center of the picture and you know, the lawn care business.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Things are different now, right? You know, having grown up in the community that we work in, you know, I've lived here since I was two. My parents moved us from Denver, 1981, when I was almost three.

[A]

You know, so, yeah, super established in the community, right?

[C]

Yeah, you know, very much established. You know, it's a small town in the winter and then My dad is well known through the community. You know, given his, his disability, his military service, you know, and the realities of his situation, he's very well respected and, you know, he. People know who he is. And so, you know, having lived there, having dad's presence in the community, you know, created a lot of relationships easily early on and then just maintained good relationships with clients long term.

[A]

Yeah, that's huge.

[C]

So, I mean, literally everything is word of mouth, you know, and we really kind of got a core group of clients that there's maybe 20 of them total, about 10 that are kind of part of the core that just keep feeding us work.

[A]

That's fantastic.

[C]

Year after year. Well, and if, if we didn't have those relationships and if we didn't have the lawn care side of the business in 09, 10, 11, I'd have been completely out of business when everything crashed because construction went from going wide open throttle 07 into early 08. And then as soon as the stock market crashed September of 08, the construction side of the business, which was 90% of our income at that time, just literally shut off like a light switch.

[A]

Yeah. In.

[C]

Didn't happen to just me. I mean, every single contractor, general contractor, home builder, landscaper, excavator in our area, all of western Montana, I mean, they just. There was suddenly no work, you know, so fortunately, you know, I still had the lawn care business, had the relationships, you know, going forward, we were. The focus on maintenance became significantly greater. And then all those same clients that we'd already done a, you know, 30, 40, $60,000 project or two previously, they're like, okay, we're not going to do another big project this year, but what if we do a $5,000, you know, project and we do it in phases over the next couple years? It's like. That works for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, it kept, kept money coming in, kept me from having to go to North Dakota. There were so many guys that had to close up shop and went to North Dakota and worked in oil fields for years.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And that just was not an option for me. You know, I had wife at home, four little kids at that point. And there was other stuff going on that was just made no sense to leave.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And so, you know, all that being said, the, the maintenance side of the business, the relationship, portions of the business, you know, long term, kept things afloat, barely, but enough to keep things going, you know, until things started to recover, you know, 2012, 13, 14, you know, and things started to ramp back up again finally.

[A]

Yeah, it's still a long time.

[C]

Oh, man. It created some painful learning lessons.

[A]

Yeah, I can only imagine.

[C]

Yeah. Well, the going into 08, I was literally two years away from having everything paid for. And if I had stopped buying any more new trucks or equipment, we'd have been debt free by 2010.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

We had just bought 20 acres outside of town that we were going to build on the winter of 08, 09 or 9, 10 at the latest. And then that crash was so severe that it put the brakes on a lot of stuff and completely changed my ability to get out of debt within two years. Yeah. And that's when we started with the Dave Ramsey program and.

[A]

No kidding. And how'd you hear about that at that time?

[C]

You know, it, it came up at church.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And because so many people were hurting money wise, I mean, our best general contractors and these guys would have been in their 50s and 60s at that time. I can. There's three to five of them. They're really good contractors that have been at it their entire lives. And you know, they would have one to three, you know, million to two million dollar homes under construction at all times. And you know, these guys were just managers at that point. Every one of those guys was completely out of work or had put their tool belts back on for the first time in years and they were doing little tiny remodels for their existing clientele from the past. I mean, that. It just, it was just bad.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, so it wasn't just me. It was, it affected everybody. But it. Yeah. Created some painful learning lessons on money management growth. And so because of that was going on, you know, I think about that time Dave Ramsey really started gaining traction with his program. We did the Financial Peace University at church, you know, the 12 week course. I want to say that was spring of 09. Yeah. And then just kind of strive for that business model going forward.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, I have not been as successful at that as I've intended or wanted. You know, the setbacks that occur occurred from, you know, the crash just created a cascade failure for me. You know, business wise. I had to downsize considerably. I had to disband the crew. You know, going into 08, I had six guys that had been with me almost 10 years each at that point.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And I had never put anybody on unemployment either prior.

[A]

Okay. You kept him busy year round.

[C]

Yes. You know, we, we got, you know, always done snow plowing, always did the lawn care. So, you know, in the winter we would do the snow plowing and then the forestry work like I talked about earlier, you know, or if it was a mild winter, we could do some excavation, we could do some rock walls, do a patio, stuff like that. So, you know, the core guys, I, I kept them on, I kept them employed. You know, sometimes there'd be a slow week or two.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, but generally we'd shift to shop work if the weather was too cold. But you know, those core people, I made sure they had paychecks yeah. You know, regardless. And so that paid off in the long term. But then when things crashed so hard, there was just nothing. And that was the most painful part, was having to disband a crew that had been loyal to me.

[A]

Yeah, man, that had been terrible.

[C]

Oh, yeah, it was very hard. You know, in going into 07, 08, you'd asked earlier, were you, were you doing sales? Were you doing hands on? I had enough experienced guys at that point that they could do most of the work. You know, it wasn't until we got into those detailed water feature and hardscape jobs where I had to be present, you know, to make those turn out right. You know, if we were doing a simple block wall, you know, simple rock wall or a water line, you know, maybe some sewer line repair, you know, the general stuff that's not, you know, detailed, I could turn four to six different guys loose to go do a job like that.

[A]

It's fantastic. And yeah, you ultimately had to let them all go.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, man, I bet you that killed you.

[C]

Oh, it was horrible.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Yep. You know, one of the water features that you see me post frequently, the mossy stone water features, we had just built that summer of 08, and a couple more projects lined up to go to fall of 08, and they just went away. And that was one of the last. Yeah, the detail in that project and the nature, you know, I had to be very hands on in it and you know how it goes when you get in those detailed projects, you try to be present as much as possible, but then it takes away from your ability to conduct business, do the administrative stuff, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

All the other necessities, you know, that are required to keep business moving forward.

[A]

Right.

[C]

So, you know, going into 2009, 10, I was able to get about half those guys back. And we started, you know, kind of slowly rebuilding and then over time, we just couldn't quite get it to stick, you know, long term, like I had originally. And some of that was just burnout. You know, we've gone 10 years of, you know, growth, basically 30% growth year after year, you know, and literally all I did was work and take care of family.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, and then after going through that whole process, you know, disbanding the crew, downsizing significantly, having to send some equipment back, you know, dealing with the financial fallout, it just. That became a significant load to carry. And, you know, it's hard enough when you've got a good crew in place and the right people, you know, you've got a Full time job, trying to keep the wheels turning, keep all the moving parts of the business in motion properly. And then when you start losing those people and you're having to do more of that, you know, again, like the early days, that can be a pretty heavy burden.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, to try to rebuild. And so few people realize the time and hours necessary, you know, one in the beginning and then two in a rebuild process that it takes to start over in order to. Yeah, it's like the circus act guy that's spinning plates on his fingers.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Doing basketball for sure. You know how it goes. You, you got to get those plates spinning and that takes a certain amount of energy and effort and, and skill and talent. And, you know, if you run out of the energy to do that, you know, the dishes fall and break or, you know, the basketballs drop to the ground.

[A]

Yeah,

[C]

yeah. So. Just. I don't know how to say this. I know you get this. There's a fine line between, you know, growth, Trusting people to do the work, ensuring the work is done to your standard. And especially when you get into those detailed jobs like, like what you do. Like what I do. You know, it's a detailed rock work, the detailed hardscapes, the water features. You know, you're constantly balancing, juggling, trying to make sure that product turns out well for your client, making sure you're doing it profitably, you know, making sure your people are working effectively and keeping the client happy. It's just a lot.

[A]

Yeah, it is a lot. It is a lot. I mean, literally, for instance, today, like we started a. Arguably maybe the first time I've had two crews going at the same time on larger jobs. And it's the second one started today. Now, thankfully, we're five minutes down the street from each job. And that was one of the reasons I took it on is because it was so close to the other one. But I quickly was like, this changes a lot because we have two things going at once. And so I spent, you know, the first three hours of the day kind of getting things going on the new one. And then at lunchtime I ran over to the other one and checked on some things and then I went back to the other one and like, I quickly was like, I, I could, I don't know, I, I could just tell the difference and, and, and you know, it, it turns up the heat, I guess.

[C]

Oh yeah.

[A]

And. But I think, you know, the only reason I'm doing it is because I feel like I have the right people. But you, you really could get Yourself in a huge mess quickly. I think if you're not, especially if you're trying to keep the quality up super high. Right. I mean, it just takes a lot of. I've just. For so long, I've been so involved in every project and I'm trying not to be the only one that, that, you know, I'm trying to help. Help my team do some of these things without me. And so it's good for everybody. I think that, you know, for. To push a little bit like this, but I totally understand it is a lot because now, like, I didn't really work on any stuff that I needed to run do for the business today. I just managed the jobs well, you know, now it's 9, 15 at night and I haven't done anything that I should have done today, so.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But anyways.

[C]

Yeah. Yep. And so learning how to juggle, navigate that, attend to business properly, your clients, the work, all that, you know, and then most importantly, your family and being present for them is a lot.

[A]

Yeah. And you had, and you had four. I mean, you have four kids, right? I mean, how old were they during the 0809 time?

[C]

So girls would have been five and six, and then the boys would have been two and one.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah. And then in the middle of that, Andrea crashed hard. Really hard. She dealt with a little bit of postpartum with each of the kids afterwards. And by the time Cody came along, our fourth our. She was completely burnt out herself and had some gnarly postpartum hit her. So in the middle of, you know, watching my business fall apart and trying to keep it together with the reality of the, you know, economic times. You know, I also had a wife at home that was seriously struggling to be. Okay.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And, you know, poor little kids.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And there's more to the story. I don't. I don't want to hijack the conversation or, you know, whatever, but it just created a lot of difficult circumstances.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

You know, so it. All those things combined made it very difficult for me to want to rebuild to where I was.

[A]

Yeah, I bet.

[C]

10, 12 employees, you know, and then just not wanting to repeat any mistakes, you know, like that. And so present day, you know, you see a much smaller version, you know, of what I had accomplished in the past, you know, and there's. There's reasons, there's multiple reasons for that. You know, some of it was just an unwillingness to put out that much time and effort again. So it was. So many setbacks occurred, it made it very hard to regrow to that level again. And then just the time, you know, necessary and, you know, kind of started to figure out my niche a little better, too, you know, which was to just do quality, you know, even higher quality work for the core group of clients.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, really, you know, somewhat weeded out some of the outside clients. You know, maybe they've been good, but just. Just, you know, some things just naturally shift. You know, maybe relationships change, people pass away or they sell and move away or whatever, you know, So I just kind of got to a point where, like, you know, I'm just going to regrow slow.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And focus on just very thorough quality. Oh. You know, and not put myself in the same financial risk I did before, you know, and that would have paid off had things continued like they were going.

[A]

Right. But.

[C]

But they didn't.

[A]

Right. They didn't. Exactly.

[C]

Yeah. And, you know, I share that with, you know, a lot of close friends. I know that a lot is appropriate. But, you know, as the Instagram network and brotherhood has grown, you know, I've watched some of these other guys that are new and young and ambitious and, you know, seemingly growing fast, and I just tried to share those experiences just for information, you know, just to say, hey, you know, it's easy to get caught up in trying to keep up with the latest and greatest or, you know, trying to keep up with the image on social media or thinking you've gotta conquer the world, whatever it is. Just a little reality check. You know, some people can navigate those setbacks quickly and easily or, you know, they're not nearly as badly affected and. And then others. It's hard.

[A]

Yeah. Do you. Do you. I don't know, do you try and mentor fine young business owners or anything and try and mentor anybody and. Or you just in. In more of conversation, you're saying, like, as you've talked to people,

[C]

I don't know that I would label it mentoring. You know, I would label it sharing experiences from one friend to another.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, just like you and I have built this connection, friendship over the years, you know, through Instagram, you know, that has occurred with, you know, quite a few other people.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, I have built some incredibly close, valuable friends nationwide, even worldwide, you know, through this little app. Yeah. That I never expected.

[A]

I know, it's wild.

[C]

You know, I think I got on Instagram middle of 2015, and one of the. Yeah. I only got on there because a couple other friends from another forum did not want to get on Facebook. And both of them were like, you need to try out Instagram. And I was like, I don't need to do that. I need another distraction.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

You know, then get on there. And one of the first people to reach out and make connections with Ryan with rock structures.

[A]

No kidding.

[C]

Yes. You know, Ryan's two years older than me. He has a very, very similar story.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

And he will share openly about it.

[A]

Yep. He has with me. It's quite the story, man. My goodness.

[C]

Yeah. And I gotta tell you, you know, that was the beginning of this brotherhood that has developed for me. And I think you would probably share the same perspective and many others. You know, this brotherhood, this network, you know, of the dirt guys, you know, landscape excavation, you know, guys that are on the social media on Instagram. And, you know, Ryan, you know, it was the first to really start building connections in, you know, commenting on my posts and.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And the same back and forth and, you know, and then when we went to Con Expo for the first time nine years ago, we're in the car on the way down, and Ryan messages me. He's like, hey, you guys want to stay here? Stay the night on your way down? Even Ryan and I had talked, you know, off and on at that point, you know, some, but not a ton. And here he is reaching out.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You know. Right. It created this, you know, a friendship, for starters. But, you know, to. To get to meet Ryan, to have him share his story openly and have the similarities be there, you know, it created a support system that I needed. And then here we are 10 years later. And so, you know, I try to share those experiences. I try to reach out kind of like Ryan did, you know, and just try to be of value.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

As a friend, you know, whether it's sharing the hardship story or just simply trying to be a present, supportive friend to somebody or just sharing, you know, trade information.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. You know, I was 15 years in when I got on Instagram and knew quite a bit. But I'll tell you, following you, Jeremy, Ryan, you know, all the guys, I have learned a significant amount of trade information and techniques and skills and tips and tricks.

[A]

I think. I think that for everybody listening, I think that's something to really take away from. A lot of this is, like, here's Eric, who's been in this game a long time, longer than me, and, like. And I've said it before to a lot of different things that, like, you never stop learning, and you. There's always, like, I. That's one of the things I love about landscaping, I think, and hardscaping. Is like, I don't know, there's just always something new to learn. But then when you add social media to it, you. You broaden your ability to see what else is possible by like, you know, a hundred times, a thousand times. And. And. And if you're humble enough to ask or to listen, I think that the amount of knowledge you can learn is unbelievable.

[C]

Thousand percent agree, Andy. There's a wealth of information and yeah, I.

[A]

And I've even seen I on your stories. Like, now I've seen you do different trips where you'll go places and. And meet up with people from social media. It's super cool.

[C]

Well, yeah, I mean, you know, like two years ago, when my daughter Haley and I went back east to bring home that new truck.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

You know, I mean, that whole story in itself is just crazy, you know, and then, you know, the accident that Haley went through, you know, thank God she was okay, and, you know, the young man that was at fault was okay, and there was just a whole lot of. It was just quite the situation. But, you know, I finally found the truck I wanted on Long island, you know, and to get a work truck out of the New England states or the east coast is like, okay, that's a bad idea.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

That. Salt.

[A]

Salt, right.

[C]

Yeah. You know, and so I find this guy, and he's a landscape excavation guy, almost exactly like you and I. He's 10 years older than me. You know, he's garage kept the truck through the winters. I mean, the thing was like almost Showroom new with130,000 miles. It was crazy. And it was 10 minutes from. My mother went to high school.

[A]

That's crazy.

[C]

Yeah, it just. All these little quinky dinks just came together.

[A]

And so you ended up then. So you ended up on a road trip to go get that car, get that truck, and then you were able to meet up with other people on your way there back or whatever.

[C]

Correct.

[A]

That's so cool.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, found the truck. I made him an offer, you know, less than he was asking for. I was like, if I'm gonna go across the country to get this thing, I've got to make it worth my time and money. And anyway, and he accepted it. He didn't even counter offer. He was like, yep, we'll take your dollars. Okay, cool. You know, so then at that point, there's John Welch with JW Landscaping. You know, he was another one that had reached out to me in the early days, and I've learned a ton from watching John on masonry work and stonework.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, and I get a hold of him, hey, John, we're going to go on a. We're flying out to go get this truck. And he's like, dude, you're welcome here. We'll come pick you up at the airport. You can stay here in our house.

[A]

I mean, how cool is that?

[C]

Oh, it was amazing. It was absolutely amazing. You know, John and his wife treated us incredibly well, welcomed us, picked us up at the airport, you know, took us to dinner. He had the fresh lobster, the fresh stuffed baked lobster, you know, that's awesome. Which is amazing, you know, but it started with John and then I got a hold of James Doyle.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

James and I met in person at On Expo.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And J is another one that I super admire, you know, like you, he's driven, you know, doing very similar work. You know, he's a hustler.

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[C]

In a good way. You know, just. He's. Anyway, you know, get a hold of James. You know, we're thinking about driving through. What do you think? He's like, dude, come on, you know, come check out the shop, the equipment. You can stay at the house, you know, and then end up Ben Canonica with Canonica Land Works. Ben and I've been chatting back and forth for years.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And we had, you know, common connections through the forestry work and some other. Just connections. And get a hold of Ben. Ben, same thing, you know. Yeah, come on, you know, come stay at our house, you know, stayed with them for a night. And then in the middle of all that, get to talking with Lucas. Straight from Arctic.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm like, lucas, we're coming through. And I gotta back up on that. You know, Lucas and I met three years ago at Con Expo and we had been networking back and forth for a couple years at that point, enjoyed watching our posts and stories and. Anyway, before we even settled on this truck, you know, one day I text Lucas Happy birthday. And then he gets a hold of me right away. He's like, hey, we've got the new razorbacks coming out. I'd like to get one in your hands and get you to give us feedback.

[A]

Yeah. How sick is that?

[C]

Oh, it was amazing. And, you know, he's like. And I asked him, okay, what kind of terms are we talking about? What's the agreement? So we got that figured out. So then the truck comes together and I call him a few weeks later. I'm like, lucas, we're gonna be driving a new truck home from the east coast, and we're gonna go right through. He's like, perfect. He's like, we'll load in the back of your truck. We're not paying shipping, you know, and we ended up going to dinner with Lucas and his wife, staying the night at their house, getting the tour of the factory. And that was amazing.

[A]

Oh, man. Yeah. That's so cool.

[C]

Yeah. So just the connections, the relationships.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

You know, so then the last stop we make is with Ben Vanderbrink with B and K Landscape in Northwest or Iowa.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

You know, same thing. Ben's a year or two years older than me. He's got four kids, really similar business, a lot of similar interests. He's into snowmobiling, stuff like that. And we talked on the phone quite a few times before, you know, and then of course, the Instagram messages and shares and stuff.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And same thing. Like, Ben, we're gonna come through, you know, we want to stop by and see him. You know, we end up going to dinner with him, going to breakfast with him, seeing the shop, you know, making connections.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And it's just great.

[A]

It is great because you don't. You don't really know, like, where. Where that could lead or. Or it's just. It's just great. I mean, it's. It makes the. It makes the world a lot smaller to be able to connect with people like that where otherwise you never, ever would connect with them. Never.

[B]

You're listening to the Molder Life podcast because you want to get better at your craft. Andy is always working hard to improve himself and pass on that knowledge to you. He's even improved his molderoutdoors.com website to make it easier to use and to give you several ways to support the podcast. When you visit molder outdoors.com, click on the shop link to pick up some of the coolest merch around. Choose from camo hats and beanies to fluorescent work shirts and super warm hoodies. While on that page, scroll down and check out the video courses, contracts and worksheets. To make you and your company highly effective and profitable, I recommend the Everything bundle, which gives you access to all the training and forms while saving you money. If you need to book a one on one consultation, you can do that as [e-mail] support the show while growing your business. There's also a link you can use in the show description.

[C]

You know, this little app has created this value relationally, you know, with the trades, with the work and just so many levels that I never, ever expected when I got on there for the first time.

[A]

Yeah, that's really cool.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I, I, I appreciate you reaching out. I mean, you did that with me in the beginning and just whatever we've been able to talk back and forth and it's a cool connection to make, and now we're talking about whatever we want to talk about on the podcast, on Instagram, and it's cool, you know, so I appreciate you sharing, you know, your, your, your journey as, as a business owner and in this industry and, and now you, you know, what, what is the, I guess, what does the business look like now? I mean, we're already an hour in here, so.

[C]

Well, present day, it's the smallest it's ever been, you know, except for in the very beginning, basically. I came to a point, Andy, where I was like, okay, I'm not going to regrow until I can get a better, healthier business model in place. And moved out to our 20 acres that we bought in 07. You know, part of the setbacks is, you know, we had a, in 0708, we had a shop in town and a home that were literally right next to each other. We'd been there for years, and it allowed me to conduct business pretty effectively. You have to maintain a certain amount of control, and I mean that in a healthy way so that you can let go of control.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, you have to be able to manage your situation well so that it can run well without you being hands on, on everything. And when you have that in place, things are beautiful and they can run well. If you don't, you create a lot of work for yourself. And so I just made the decision to just stay small until I can get ourselves moved out on that 20 acres with a house and shop in proximity to each other.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then, you know, like, you and I talked last week, you know, figuring out a software program, you know, synced up Element, whatever it is, you know, something that provides the necessary information, you know, to steer the ship, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

A navigation program that enables me to, you know, fly the plane better.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, with more information immediately. Yeah, that's, you know, those early days of growth and big business and big numbers and lots of people. You know, we had QuickBooks. Maybe element was out then. I don't know. We never got into that. We just did everything basically manually. And we had a bookkeeper at that time that was putting in 15, 20 hours a week. And she'd been with us 10 years at that point, so she knew what to do. So we had stuff in place then. It was very time consuming, you know, handwritten time cards, Everything was just manual and just slow.

[A]

Yeah, but it worked, right?

[C]

It did. It got the job done.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

It wasn't quick and effective and near as informative as it needed to be without putting in a lot of effort, you know, which is why I was asking you the other day, you know, about synced up and you shared with me your experience. But a guy has to have something that helps him manage those numbers efficiently, quickly, at your fingertips. And so until I can put that in motion as well, I just decided I'd rather focus on small, yeah, you know, high detail product projects. And you've seen some of the work sites we get into around this lake. Yeah, we, this is very tricky. Steep, limited access.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know that they take a certain amount of skill to do.

[A]

Yeah. And foresight and, and thinking ahead and where are we going to put stuff. And like, there's so much more to like managing a project like that, any size project really is to be, to be able to see so many steps ahead. Like just, it's just, it takes, it takes a lot of training to teach that. I have found just like job site management and material management and just literally just thinking for you. And I like, I find like when I'm bidding jobs, like when I'm, when I, if I've, if I met with the client, I designed the job, I sold the job. Like I've built the job seven times in my head before we start the job. And so now like as we, as we, you know, consider growing or growing and me trying to not be there for every single thing I've had to learn. Like, I really need to remember that when I bring my foreman there for the first time, that's their first time seeing the site and they're not going to just automatically know what, this is where we're going to dump the stone and this is where we're going to put the, the excavated material. And like, I have to learn, number one, to communicate everything that's on my mind or have and work on plans that, that help get the information from my head onto paper and that's the only way you're able to grow. But it's still, it still takes a lot of coaching to communicate job site management, you know.

[C]

Oh, absolutely.

[A]

I mean that's a massive topic to bring up right now, but I'm just saying.

[C]

Yeah, we can go over that the next podcast.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yes, that in itself. And it's, yeah. Work Site management is a learned skill and the tighter the site, the steeper the site. It just. The complication level goes through the roof.

[A]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[C]

The project you guys watched me build last year on the lake at the COVID with the large stone seawall, you know, that access was super steep. It's the steepest access in work site I've worked on. You know, all the stone is up above, you know, it's 100 vertical feet up to where the stones being, you know, kept, you know, and that trail, I don't know, 500, 600ft long, but you know, just an absolute bottleneck down at the lake and very, very limited space to store material, you know, so it required a ton of mental calculation constantly, you know, what pieces are we going to bring down this time? You know, when should we, you know, move this machine in or out or you know, switch places with the big excavator to the smaller excavator, you know, and then, you know, every single piece is a unique size. You've got to go measure, take pictures of in mind or with the phone and right. You know, there's nothing efficient about it at all. So all that to be said, it is extremely difficult to have an employee on your payroll long enough to be able to turn somebody loose and do a job like that with complete confidence that it's going to turn out right and done in an efficient and effective manner.

[A]

Right.

[C]

It just, it just simply takes time to learn those skills. And so like you're saying with an employee, if that's their first impression, their first viewing of the site, one, they're an employee, they don't sleep through the night thinking about the job the next day.

[A]

Like you and I, they don't. Why not? Exactly. It's so I'm telling you, like that is something I need to almost remind myself of every time I start a job, is that exact thought is I have been sleeping and breathing and looking at everything, every piece of this project since the day I came here. And especially on these bigger jobs that we have found ourselves doing. Like I have turned this job over so many times. Like it's, it's easy to just, you get there and it's just like everybody should just know, you know, it's just, it's not like that. You have to slow down. That's really something that I have to work on is slowing down. I, I get, you know, I get too, I don't know, I get rammy. I like to say I get rammy sometimes. You know, I don't know Anyways, well,

[C]

you know, and that was the beautiful thing years ago for me is, you know, I had a crew that started with me in the beginning and stayed with me and we learned all these things together.

[A]

Yeah, man, to lose, that was brutal.

[C]

Man. I was horrible. And good people, you know, one of them, you know, at that time was my father in law. He left before we had to disband, but he'd run jobs for me for years at that point. A guy named Danny long. Danny put 14 years in with me, total.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And Danny was one of the few that had the patience to really do the details and do it well and not get completely, you know, agitated.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And there was a couple others. You know, you have to learn the, your people's personality. You gotta, like Dave Ramsey says, you got to put the right person in the right seat in the bus.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, you know, you and I could sit in every seat in that bus and under the hood. But you know, somebody who comes to workforce, they don't have those same desires generally or the same skill set typically. And so you have to, you know, teach them those things. But then you've got to learn their personality. You know, there's some guys that just don't do details.

[A]

Right.

[C]

They'll, you know, they'll do volumes all day long. But you know, you have them do those micro details that matter and it just will drive them nuts. Yep. Then you find the guy that has the ability or the desire to do the details and that's just a whole nother. Component of the business skill set with people management.

[A]

That'll be that. That'll have to be for our third podcast, Eric.

[C]

There you go. Yep. Problem is you have to have the sun, moon and stars all align at the same time to get everything to flow right.

[A]

It's super easy.

[C]

Right? You just post on social media.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, if you, if you take the right photo, all that stuff looks like you got it figured out, so. Oh, Eric, man, we're gonna have to wrap this up, man. We're an hour and 15 minutes into this. Yeah, I'm sorry to cut it off early, but we, I'm sure we could talk all night, but Eric, where, where could people find you on social media if, if they don't follow you already? I know you might have said in the beginning, but just let everybody know where they could give you a follow and, and we'll wrap it up.

[C]

My Instagram is Eric Groundsmaster.

[A]

There you go.

[C]

E R, I K. Yeah.

[A]

E R, I K. There you go.

[C]

Eric. Grounds. Plural. Grounds Master.

[A]

Awesome. Well, Eric, I really appreciate you being onto the podcast this week, and I most certainly will have you on again, and maybe we'll choose a specific topic to talk about or whatever, but I could probably sit and just listen to you talk for hours and just hear of your life experiences. And I think that's just something that I hope everybody takes away from this podcast and other podcasts when we have people on is like, there's so many. So many different experiences out there that people are willing to share. And like you, Eric, I appreciate you opening up and sharing some of the hard things that you went through. And I. I hope that some of this stuff can be a lesson to people listening for, you know, something that they're going through or something that they think they want to do or. I just. I appreciate you sharing that stuff, man.

[C]

Well, you're welcome, Andy. And I. I greatly appreciate you as well. You know, as I've told you before, I seriously admire what you've accomplished, and especially doing it debt free. That in itself is amazing.

[A]

Thank you. It's been not all my doing, and I'm thankful to God for the blessings that he's given us. And I know you would agree with that. Right? So.

[C]

Absolutely. 100%.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. It. What you have accomplished has given me hope for myself and for others that that can be done. And it's not just the Dave Ramsey pipe dream, you know, and that doesn't mean that Dave Ramsey's way is the only way. No, but you're living proof that there's some. There's a lot of value, a lot of benefits to operating under that business model.

[A]

Yeah, it's. I. I've said it. I've said it many times like it's. It's not for everybody. And there's a lot of different ways to run a business, but this is. We have found this to work really well for us, and I would not go back and change it if I. If I had the choice, so. Well, Eric, I. Thanks for being on tonight. I want to thank our sponsors, Pave Tool Innovators. Pave Tool.com Go check them out and if you're gonna buy something from them, use our coupon code Molder Outdoors50. Also thanks to synced up. Synced up project management software. You can go to syncedup.com and check out everything that they offer. And I. Again, Eric, thanks for being on tonight. And that's the Motorlife podcast coming to you from the ENCON studios and we'll catch you on the next one. Thanks.

[B]

This has been a molder outdoors and Mr. Producer production.