B (1:47)

That was a great party.

A (1:48)

That was the hardest drinking bunch I've ever seen in my life,

B (1:53)

as he says. Anyhoo, this story has some history to it. It goes way back to 2003. He and his friend were in the Dallas Fort Worth area and they went out one night and he and his friend were trying to talk to, as he said, super hot girls. The convo came up on what we do for work. His friend worked for IBM or something like that. He says he had some meaningless job and he told the girls that he worked for one of the local sports teams. Then there was a follow up. One of the girls just said, oh, okay, what do you work in pr? Do you coach? And he said, no, I'm a player. And he said he played for the Cowboys. So then they had to take it to the next level. What's his name? Does he come up with an obscure name? No.

A (2:48)

So he's just doing this to try to get in?

B (2:50)

Yes.

A (2:50)

To just sexual activity with her?

B (2:52)

Yes. He said. He responded with, I'm Jason Whitten. Now, our friend Richard says he did play for Texas Tech. He's 6 4, and at the time about 265.

A (3:06)

Okay.

B (3:07)

So that would match up. I have no idea if he looks like Jason Whitten. So the girl starts asking me all kinds of questions, like, how was Tennessee? When did you get drafted? Way too knowledgeable. And he just kind of played it off. Night continues. He and his friend are talking to some other friends, and then they notice that the two girls that they were talking to, one of them's motion them to come on over. So they go over there, and the girl is leaning on a column, and she was. She had someone with her, but blocked by the column and got over there and she says, I'd like you to. I'd like to introduce you to my fiance. And he's like, oh, okay. And who pops out behind the column but Jason freaking Whitten.

A (3:57)

No way.

B (3:57)

He was on the other side of the column and is. His friend's now laughing on the store hysterically. Both girls are cackling on the floor. What?

A (4:10)

Laughing on the store or the floor? What did you say store? I don't know.

C (4:13)

I think he said store.

B (4:14)

Oh, well, he's. No, his friend's rolling on the floor.

A (4:17)

Okay.

B (4:17)

In the store and. Or the bar and the girls are cackling. Jason Whitten just looks at me and says, why did you pick me? And our friend Richard says, I don't know. I played tight end and thought I could pull it off.

A (4:31)

Yeah.

B (4:33)

So anyway, he stays there and has drinks with now Jason Whitten's wife. And they had a great time and Whitten handled it really well. But he was inspired to write this to us for most embarrassing moment. What was that moment like when Jason Whitten pops out and goes, hey, I'm Jason Whitten.

A (4:53)

Yeah. What are the chances are the odds.

C (4:57)

That's crazy.

B (4:58)

The sports imposter. That's another good topic.

A (5:00)

Sometimes we've all run into those.

C (5:02)

Yes, I was out. It may have been with you, Gordo. I can't remember, but Greenville Avenue in Dallas, big night spot, 30 years ago, ran into a guy who told everyone in the bar that he was Steve Largent.

A (5:17)

And the bar was believing it.

C (5:19)

Yes.

B (5:19)

Which I would have too.

A (5:20)

I don't know what that was.

B (5:21)

Better to go with the out of town Athlete?

C (5:23)

Yeah. Seattle Seahawks, legendary receiver, but hall of Famer. And I knew what he looked like. And this guy was. And Largent wasn't big, but this guy was too small to be Steve Largent. And I just didn't think he looked like him. But ran into a couple of those over the years that did. Like this guy. They take a specific player and use that name instead of just a fake name and say, you know, you're a practice squad player. They go with a Hall of Famer,

A (5:51)

and you busted that guy. Why did you have to ruin his chances? He had a thing going. He was getting free drinks. The ladies were all over him.

B (6:00)

It's just wrong.

C (6:01)

It was wrong to do that to Steve Largent. The real Steve Largent.

B (6:05)

That's right.

A (6:06)

Like you had morals back in those

B (6:08)

days, sticking up for the real Steve.

A (6:13)

You were the most morally bankrupt person I'd ever met.

B (6:16)

Wow, that is so untrue. What a strong accusation that is. All right, well, thanks to Richard. That's a very embarrassing moment. And thanks to our friend, George W. Bush. Yeah, he's our friend. In fact, he calls me Big George. Remember that? We went to his ranch. I think he knows who we are.

A (6:37)

He doesn't know who we are, but they've got us right after he met us.

B (6:41)

But they've got something new going on at the Busch Center. The Game Changers exhibit. All sorts of sports memorabilia and things of great interest, like Mike Aruzione's 1980 USA Olympic hockey jersey. Two days after the Miracle on Ice, the USA Hockey team defeated Finland for two to win the gold. And of course, the team captain, Micah Ruzzioni wore this jersey during the gold medal winning game. They also have the Lake Placid 1980 Winter Olympics torch. Just one of the many things that they have. The George W. Bush Center's Game Changer exhibit, United by Sports. Visit today and learn more about the athletes and see the memorabilia that they have changed the game. That have changed the game. And yeah, I want to go check that out. They have all sorts of cool stuff from Olympic moments and moments here in our sports history in the United States. Can't wait to see that. It's a great place to go. The Busch center in Dallas.

C (7:50)

The George W. Bush Presidential center invites you to explore how sports unite, Challenge and inspire change beyond the game experience. Game Changer United by Sports, presented by Gary Weber. A special exhibit at the Bush center where history and our nation take the field. See more than 50 legendary sports memorabilia items, including two of Jesse Owens gold medals from the 1936 Olympics, gear worn by Jackie Robinson and other iconic items from athletes who changed history. Now through the end of April, get up close with legendary pieces from Texas Rangers icons like Nolan Ryan and Kenny Rogers, plus unforgettable memorabilia from the 2023 World Series team. Don't miss it. Plan your Visit@busch center.org Musers that's bushcenter.org

B (8:40)

Musers Fast breaks, buzzer beaters and block parties are back, and underdog is the best place to get in on the action. Playing on underdog is easy. Just pick whether your favorite player will go higher or lower on stats like points, rebounds, steals and more. Get your picks right, you could win up to 5,000 times your cash. Last week I went higher on Cooper Flag's total points in one big let's see what happens this week. Download the app. Use the promo code MUSERS to score $75 in bonus entries when you play your first $5. That's promo code MUSERS. Underdog make picks win money must be 18 or older, 19 or older in Alabama and Nebraska, 19 or older in Colorado for some games 21 or older in Arizona, Massachusetts and Virginia and present in a state where underdog fantasy operates. Terms apply. Concerned with call 1-800-Myret or visit ncpgambling.org In Arizona, call 1-800-Next Step 1-800-639-8783 or text NextStep to 83342 In New York, call the 247 Hope Line at 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny to 467-369. Very inspiring what happened in 1980 in our US Olympic hockey team that just won gold in Italy. 46 years later, the men win another gold medal in hockey, and that's what we're talking about today. Maybe that inspired you back in 1980. Maybe you were inspired by Jim Craig or Mike Ruzioni, people that you never ended up meeting. But you were inspired by what they did. In that case, a world stage. Or maybe someone who inspired you or influenced you much closer to home. Someone outside your family. Maybe it was a teacher, a coach, a neighbor. They gave you a piece of advice, they picked you up when you were down, and they helped you. Looking back in my life, I'm convinced that to get wherever it is, we need help from people along the way. People sometimes who just sit down and talk to you or tell you something, inspire you in some way. And I know I have a ton. I could talk for hours on this. People who have inspired me through the Years and have helped me through the years. And I do think it's important you know people outside your family with. With your parents. Obviously, I was influenced and inspired by my parents and my uncles and aunts and brothers and sisters. But doesn't it hit you differently when it's someone outside of your family? In other words, your family members, for the most part, will always say, oh, yeah, of course, that was great, or, you're doing fine. To me, at least. It always hit differently when it was a teacher or a coach or an acquaintance, a friend, Someone who was there for you to put their arms around you, either literally or figuratively, and help you along with something.

C (11:48)

Yeah. When I thought about this topic, I thought about family members that have offered advice or guidance. My sister's been someone I've leaned on a lot. But yes, it does hit differently from outside the family. Now, certain family issues can really only be talked about within the family.

B (12:06)

Sure. Yeah.

C (12:08)

But even getting outside advice on those topics can be helpful because it's a set of eyes that's away from your family, and maybe they've got their own experiences that are similar to what's happened there. I think this is an interesting topic, and I think you guys are going to learn something about me as we move along.

B (12:26)

Okay. Yeah. I've got a few things that I don't think you guys have heard before that I think may shed a light of why I'm so weird or something. Um, but it. It did come to mind teachers. With my view of teachers through the years, they seem to be just. There almost seemed to be like a dividing line between us. I didn't get to know a lot of my teachers really well, and it seems like the ones that I got to know had the biggest impact on me. And all these years later, it's been 50 years since I was in fifth grade, and my fifth grade teacher, Mrs. Talley, she took the time to do this thing called. I think it was called either student of the week or pupil of the week. And you would get to bring in items that told your story, whatever your interests were. If you had some accomplishments by fifth grade, like maybe some awards you'd won or trophies or ribbons, bring those in. And then you would talk in front of the class, which was kind of unnerving. But then at some point during the week, you would get to have lunch. As everyone went to the lunchroom, you'd get to have lunch and she would buy lunch, and you would sit with her in the classroom. And I don't know about y' All. But I was always really intimidated by See all.

A (13:44)

In the classroom, you would eat in front of.

B (13:46)

No, just. No, just you and the teacher. You know, you'd have to. Yeah. No, In. In the classroom.

A (13:54)

Huh?

B (13:55)

But it was just those two. I know. Now you think you need an observer there.

C (13:59)

Very weird.

B (14:00)

But, I mean, at the time, I thought nothing of it. Right. I remember distinctly her saying, well, tell me more, you know, about yourself. What are your interests? What do you like to do? How many brothers and sisters do you have? And it was just a way for. And as I look back at it, everyone was Student of the Week at some point. So if we had 24 students, it started in October and went for 24 weeks. That was almost the entire school year. But she got to know everyone, what kind of family they were from, what their interests were, what they wanted to do someday, who their favorite. In my case, who their favorite sports team was or athletes. And she made such a big impact on me because it was a way of her saying, you know, you matter to me enough for me to ask you, you know, what do you like to do? And as I look back, she knew everybody that way, and she was loved. We all loved Mrs. Talley. She made such a big impact on us. And 50 years later, I can't name all of my teachers, but I could name her. And I brought this up on the Cowboys podcast. I remember the day after Super Bowl 10. That's when I was in fifth grade, and I was devastated. The other thing I liked about her, she was from Texas, and that's something we had in common. I was from Texas, but this was in Wheaton, Illinois. And we would occasionally talk about Texas and what life was like in Texas. And I was so devastated that day. And she could tell. And she said, I know it's a sad day in Texas, but you've got to pay attention and we've got to move on. And I remember sitting up and going, well, yes, ma'.

A (15:48)

Am.

B (15:48)

You know, and I was ready to go to work, and I wanted to do well for her. And she. I think it's because she made that connection. And it wasn't just with me. She made the connection with the entire classroom that was so impactful on me.

A (16:02)

So she didn't select a Pupil of the week in the sense of that you had done something special. It was. She was doing this every.

B (16:09)

Yes. Everybody has something unique. Everybody has a story to tell. And I didn't really think about that at the time, but looking back at it, I just thought it Was.

A (16:18)

But it made you feel special that week. Yeah.

B (16:20)

At least for that week it did. And it connected you with her. And I just thought it was a great way of teaching and at least, shoot, I would say maybe all the way through high school, she was the most impactful teacher that I had.

C (16:38)

So this is the beginning of the weird lesson about me. I don't have a single teacher that stands out.

B (16:44)

Really?

C (16:44)

Yeah, not one. And I.

A (16:47)

Do you remember them?

C (16:48)

Oh, yeah, I remember every one of them. And I loved. My grade school was St. Charles grade school in Oklahoma City, and my two high schools I went to, McGinnis and Dunn in Oklahoma City and Dallas. And I had some very good teachers and a lot of teachers that I really liked, but none of them that I can say here today made any really kind of impact whatsoever.

B (17:09)

And you mean, no offense by that.

C (17:11)

And I mean no offense to any of them. They were fine teachers, but none of them were exceptional in that they took me under their wing or did anything like that. I think I just matriculated as a kid and they were my teachers and we just each played our role and that was it.

A (17:29)

They were just serviceable, but they didn't make a difference in any kid's life.

C (17:33)

Not my life, you know. And I had some. Like my math teacher in fifth and sixth grade went out of her way to come over to our house to help me with my fractions. That's when I started struggling with math.

A (17:45)

Was that weird?

C (17:46)

It was weird.

A (17:47)

It's so weird. Yeah. I had that one time.

B (17:49)

There's that line that, you know, you just keep between you somehow.

A (17:52)

Yeah. I missed school and a teacher came over to my house to. Or, no, I went to her house to make up some assignments, and that

B (17:58)

was just

A (18:00)

so wrong and weird and just felt so out of place.

C (18:04)

Yeah, it was really weird. And in high school, I had a couple of teachers here and there that I really liked and we got along with well. But I wouldn't say they were inspirational in any way or impactful at all. Impactful at all. But you're going to see this as a theme through my life outside of my family and my close friends circle. And this is kind of a spoiler for this episode, but I have had nobody that has really made any kind of an impact.

B (18:36)

He's just kind of done it on his own. I didn't know.

A (18:38)

He proves he's a robot.

C (18:40)

I've kind of done it all on my own. And now I've really heavily relied on my friends, my circle of friends.

A (18:48)

Yes. I've loaned you so much money over

C (18:50)

the years, the two of you included. You know where I need advice. I go to my circle of very tight 8 or 10 great friends in my life that have all helped me at one point or another with sage advice or wisdom or experience, whatever it is. But when you get outside of that family and friend group that I have, I don't know of anybody. I've never had a mentor. I've never had that grandfatherly figure of anybody that took me under their wing in profession or in my hobbies or whatever it is. And I think part of that may go back to our last episode. Being a firstborn. I have always wanted to do it myself. I've never wanted to take lessons. I've never wanted anybody to guide me. Like, I try to go to the gym regularly. I've never wanted a personal trainer. Everybody at the gym has a trainer. But I wanted to figure it out on my own.

B (19:48)

And some people need that to motivate them or, yeah, keep them on track.

C (19:52)

But I've always been able to motivate myself. I've never wanted a cycling coach. I like reading books and articles and when I was running marathons, you know, my athletic hobbies, a lot of people get coaches. And I just have read books and training programs and figured it out myself.

B (20:07)

Yeah.

C (20:08)

And, you know, I took a couple golf lessons, I took a few guitar lessons, but I didn't really dive into those and keep doing it for years and years and years. I just love the process of figuring everything out on my own. And that may be a personality defect, I don't know. But I think it's kept me from seeking a lot of advice from outside sources or outside of my close personal circle. It's kept me from ever having a mentor because I never felt like I needed one, or I probably needed one, but I never felt like I wanted one. And maybe that's why. Maybe I was putting up barriers as a kid to these teachers. Maybe they wanted to help me more and be more of an influence. But I was more like, no, I can figure this out on my own.

B (20:57)

What about you, Gordo? I know you had one later in your academic career, but what about the elementary school? Do you have one that as far as teachers?

A (21:08)

Yeah, man. I had my fourth grade teacher in particular. She was really good. She was known as the science teacher. She would also teach, focus on science and stuff. So she really sparked a love for science and learning. And I remember just thinking that was fascinating when she started getting into science and explaining things to us. And I started seeing that the world worked in such a way. Like there was this underlying order to the world that worked on principles of math or laws of physics, and. And I just found that endlessly fascinating. She really sparked my love for science and the natural world and the curiosity about it, and she did that. And she was the one who really sparked my love of stories and literature, because when we would come back from lunch was when she would read part of a book. So this was throughout the year. There were several books that she read us. One of them was called island of the Blue Dolphin. And I don't know if y' all read that or not.

B (22:16)

Either I did or my kids did. It was.

A (22:18)

If I remember correctly, it was this young girl and young boy, I think the brother and sister who were abandoned on this island or had to live on this island without adults. The adults had died or something about their survival tale living on this. And I remember the other kids just didn't seem interested in this.

B (22:36)

She.

A (22:36)

She also read Beverly Cleary's Ribsy to us. This was another one of the books that she read us after lunch. So, yeah, there would be the 45 minutes that she would read to us from some book and while the kids digested their food and. And the other kids just kind of tuned out or went to sleep, and I would just. I was so enthralled with these stories.

B (22:57)

Yeah.

A (22:57)

And just getting lost in the words and the worlds that she was building just through words. She could just read this out, and I could see all this in my head. And I was so curious as to what was going to happen the next day in the story. And that was that same teacher that sparked my love of science, too.

C (23:15)

That sounds amazing to have a teacher spark something.

A (23:18)

Yeah, I know. See, Craig doesn't understand that.

B (23:21)

All right, I'll give you another one. And a shout out. Her name is Penny Teagarden.

A (23:27)

You've mentioned her before.

B (23:28)

I've mentioned her on our radio show before. And in fact, I think we even had her on the air for, like, five minutes. I think we called her at her workplace.

A (23:33)

And it's the most haughty, fake British name I've ever heard. It is Penny Teagarten.

B (23:39)

What a sweet woman. And she was our high school counselor, and it was her job, you know, to help keep you on track to graduate. But it was also her job to help out kids in a really tough time when they're 15, 16 years old, trying to figure things out. And I had a really tough time in chemistry it's the only course in high school that I failed. It was in the fall semester. And so I had to meet with the counselor. And it was really the first time that I met face to face with her. And before we even talked about chemistry, she just said, well, I know who you are, but tell me about yourself. I know you're on the golf team. What else? And again, just like Mrs. Talley, she took interest in what was going on. And she said, what's going on at home? Everything good, you know, because it was just a very strange thing that I'd failed a class. Not that I was a great student, but I never failed a class before. And she wanted to see if there was something going on. And I said, well, yeah, everything's fine. You know, we do have my grandmother living with me, and she has. Has cancer. And all of a sudden, for the next 30 minutes, we talked about my grandmother. I was like, wow. She took interest in my family and what I'm going through. So fast forward. She then put me in office aid that next semester, which was great, if you ever got those gigs.

A (25:05)

I had the library aid gig there for a while, and that was another teacher that I liked. She wasn't my official teacher, but it was the library in my school. And I thought she was the funniest woman I've ever met. And she was just so. But, yeah, because that was a weird deal. Were you, like her aide?

B (25:20)

Yes. And I was supposed to do something for everyone. Errands for the office, you know, taking messages to teachers. And I think that was it. She was trying to give. She said, well, you're fine on sciences, you know, you only need one more. Let's take a semester off from science, be an office aide. Nothing. Okay. But I also, looking back at it, think she wanted to keep an eye on me because, you know, she. No, she didn't think that at all. But she could see, hey, this is someone. And I think I told her at that first meeting, too. Well, this is my fourth school in five years. We'd moved a couple of times, so I just think she wanted to keep an eye on me. And sure enough, when my grandmother passed that semester, I walked into school and I told her what had happened. She goes, what are you doing here? And I said, well, I've missed so much school because of golf tournaments. I've got to be at school. And she said, no, you don't. But if you're here, why don't you sit down there and just, you know, because I, you know, was very Sad and started breaking down in front of her. And she said, you just sit there. And I said, I have two tests today. She said, you can take them in here. So every teacher that I had either came down and gave me my test or the assignment for that day. And I didn't have to walk through school on the morning that my grandmother had passed. And I just was so struck, and still am, by that kindness. And it was just her reaching out, saying, hey, you matter to me. And we hear about that in the coaching profession. When players feel like and have that relationship with their coach, they're willing to do anything for that coach or the program, and they buy in. And yeah, it was really impactful to me of, wow, she took the time to do that. That's her job. She's a counselor. But how many counselors would really do that? They would just send you off, hey, why don't you go home? Or now that you're here, go on to class. But that kindness just really. I think about it all the time. Even wrote a song about her, which is kind of weird, But I realized 20 or 30 years later, that person really helped propel me through life.

C (27:36)

That's also amazing to me to hear a story about a teacher that took genuine interest in you. That must have been amazing.

B (27:43)

And you had teachers and professors that did that and you maybe.

C (27:46)

Nothing like that.

B (27:47)

They don't stand out to you.

C (27:49)

Nothing like that.

B (27:50)

Yeah, it was special. I think she was special and taught for a long time and worked in the Dallas Community College field for a while. She was just a really, really neat person.

C (28:04)

Didn't she sue you after you wrote that song about.

A (28:06)

Yeah, there was something weird. I remember that story.

B (28:08)

Weird about that.

A (28:09)

It was weird. And you guys settled out of court.

B (28:12)

Her son Taylor, played baseball at a really high level. Was a Rangers organization. Yeah, it was really cool.

A (28:18)

I remember that.

B (28:18)

Yeah. The great Penny Tee Garden. All these years later, I still think about her and okay, I know someone who helped propel you forward. And maybe we just have talked about it so much on a radio show. Craig. But the guy who inspired us in college, Bill Mercer, who ran the sports broadcasting program up there, he was incredible. And talk about a guy who showed interest in not just us, but so many students, gave of his time and resources and expertise. He was one that propelled so many of us through to whatever we're doing now.

C (28:55)

He's the only one that I had written down. I didn't have anybody that stood out in grade school or high school, but when I got to college, At North Texas. Yes. Bill Mercer, who was a legendary broadcaster, first in news, then in sports and play by play, and did the Cowboys and the Ice bowl and did Major League Baseball. That was the class that I couldn't wait to take once I got to college and then once I took was so mesmerizing to be in his presence and listen to his stories. And yes, he made me want to be a good broadcaster. And he taught us so much of the nuts and bolts about broadcasting. And I loved his class and loved. I still remember things that he told us to say and not to say and sure. How to do a game or how to do a sportscast or whatever it happened to be. So, yes, he is the one on the list that did really inspire me. And I don't want this to come across as though I had everybody outside of. Bill Mercer was a terrible teacher or professor.

A (29:59)

That's what you're saying.

C (30:00)

They just weren't inspirational. You know, in a way, to me that really that here at age 60 that I think about. But he is the one that my life would be different had I not met him, had I not studied under him.

B (30:15)

Yeah. And I, I just think we're kind of wired differently. I still look, as you'll hear in a few minutes, I still look for inspiration in, in our, our place of work, you know, in sports, sports broadcasting, man, I found all sorts of influences. Inspiration from speeches, from press conferences I told you all about.

A (30:41)

You're very susceptible to coach speak. Like, if a coach is giving a rousing speech, maybe you're in on it.

B (30:47)

Maybe. But in the case of Lou Holtz, it was not a rousing speech about, hey, we're going to go get him. We're going to win every day. It was what I told you about. After he got fired, he sat down and wrote a list of, okay, well, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? Here's some things that I know I want to do. I did that same thing in my 40s, and one of them was pursuing music and writing and performing music. And I was impacted. Inspired by Lou Holtz. Never met him, but I thought it was a cool idea. And that's when we had our bucket list conversation. And I know, Gordo, in high school you terrorized a lot of teachers, but I know some reached out to you and tried to somehow move you along and get you graduated and on with your life. And I know in college you had someone that really impacted you.

A (31:40)

Yeah. And I know that you kind of said, you know, other Than family. There's obvious the family influences us a lot. And I did learn a lot from my father with woodworking, fixing things, his approach to intellectual life. My brother, who's influenced me tremendously with the love of outdoors and hunting and you know, he was a big hunter and he talked me into going to Africa with him and that was a trip of a lifetime to see all that stuff out there. But yeah, when it, when it comes to people outside of my family and outside of famous people, which we haven't gotten into yet.

B (32:17)

Yeah, like you're.

A (32:18)

You guys is going to be Steve Martin and you two. And everyone knows mine, it's like, no,

C (32:22)

I've got three and two. You will not guess.

B (32:25)

Really?

C (32:25)

Yeah.

A (32:26)

Well, that's a tease ahead if I've ever heard one. I bet you can guess mine that are celebrities. Let's see if you can do it.

C (32:32)

Dave Letterman.

A (32:33)

Yep.

C (32:34)

I almost.

B (32:34)

NBC.

A (32:35)

Dave Letterman. Yeah, it's got to be NBC. Dave.

C (32:37)

He was almost on my list too.

B (32:40)

Yeah. Who else would be on your list?

A (32:43)

2 I've mentioned before John Taylor. No, although that's a good one musically. John Taylor, I just, he's the one who got me into wanting to play bass. But yeah, it's Chevy Chase in the film. Seems like old times.

B (32:56)

Okay. Yeah, I've heard that one before.

A (32:58)

And Bill Murray in Stripes.

C (33:01)

Yeah, okay. Love that character.

A (33:04)

Those two are my celebrity ones.

B (33:07)

Okay.

A (33:07)

Along with Dave Letterman. So that would be three. But yeah, I mentioned the one teacher. And then of course in college was when I got to be friends with this philosophy professor. His name was Steve Graham. It still is Steve Graham.

B (33:22)

Shout out, Steve.

C (33:23)

He didn't change it.

A (33:24)

He never changed his name, oddly enough. And I was going to a junior college. He was a philosophy professor at this junior college. And I went back and saw where I had originally was going to take from this other teacher. And the class was filled up and I had to switch it out and cross through it and put this class with Steve Graham. And I took his class and it changed my world. He was so. He was such a fantastic teacher and it sparked my love of philosophy. That's what got me way into philosophy. Which then also led into studying religion more seriously. And it was his approach to it. He was so frickin funny up there. His classroom was like a combination between a preacher and a stand up comedian. He was just so dang funny. And I would look around like I didn't think anyone else thought he was nearly as funny as I did.

B (34:21)

This guy's killing him.

A (34:22)

This Guy's issuing comedic gold up here, and everyone's acting like this is a regular college class, but we're in the presence of comedic greatness here. And he was very, very smart, obviously, and very funny. And he was a huge, huge, huge influence on me to the point that I took. I think I took a Steve Graham class every semester for about three years, including Intro to Philosophy that I retook three times.

B (34:51)

I was going to say, did you take it more than once?

A (34:53)

Yeah, and I passed it every time. It wasn't like, I'm retaking it because I failed it.

B (34:57)

That's amazing.

A (34:57)

You can do that.

C (34:58)

You can do that in college, retake the same class, and that counts as credit.

A (35:02)

I don't know if it counted as credit, but I didn't care.

B (35:04)

It probably wouldn't.

C (35:05)

Yeah.

B (35:05)

Wouldn't give me any more credit, but okay, you can certainly do it.

A (35:08)

I do think it contributed to my gpa, though.

B (35:11)

Yeah, I guess I could. Yeah.

A (35:13)

So I don't. I don't know how they were scoring it on the back end, and I didn't care.

B (35:17)

I would think they would just take your highest grade if you made all A's. I don't know if it would have affected you, but. Yeah.

A (35:23)

And then later on, you know, I was his student for a long time, and then for those three years, I'm sure he thought I was incredibly weird. It's like he had to think, he's going crazy, man. I swear, this same dude is in my class every single time. And then years later, I went back and I would talk to him sometimes after class, and remember, even one time he said, you know, hey, I'm about to go get something to eat. You want to go get something to eat? We went to Whataburger.

B (35:51)

Wow.

A (35:52)

And that's a Texas burger joint for our Singapore listeners.

B (35:56)

But he took an interest in you?

A (35:58)

Yeah, I mean, well, I just think I was just there at the time. And he was so casual. He's like, yeah, I'm heading to Whataburger, if you want to talk about this. You got to come with me because I've got to order a number two with cheese. So, you know, tag along if you want. And so got to talking with him, and then years later, I went back and took a class. I say years later. It may have been two or three years. I went to University of Texas at Dallas for a few years, and then I went back and took another one of his courses, and we. That was the time where we got to be good friends and he ended up selling me my first house. It was his old house that he was moving out of. And I bought that house.

B (36:36)

Yeah.

A (36:36)

And I was never going to buy a house before then, but because it was from him. And I idolized this man so much that it convinced me to buy this house.

B (36:48)

Gosh, I know, it's huge.

C (36:50)

It's crazy to have a figure like that in your life.

A (36:53)

Yeah. That actually means something to you. And then at the time when I was thinking about committing to a person of my choosing, I remember talking to him about that and he said I was very concerned. You know, I'm a young guy. Young guy. I was actually a little bit older. I guess everyone seems young now. It seems young now. But I remember expressing to him about my fear of losing my freedom and my fear of making this long term commitment. And he said something to me that, that moved me deeply. It was very economical what he said. He said, freedom is the freedom to make commitments. I was like, yeah, what's the point of having the freedom to make commitments if you never even make commitments?

B (37:41)

Yeah.

A (37:42)

So what's the purpose of just unrealized freedom? Well, there's not a lot of purpose to that. And so, yeah, it's anyway, that affected me for whatever reason, it may mean nothing to someone else, may not hit them the same way, but it hit me right at that particular time. I was like, yeah, because I, at that point in my life, I knew several free spirits who were just always going to be free. No mortgages, marriages, kids, nothing. No, none of that stuff for them. Right. They were just going to be permanently free. And then you realize that, no, some things are worth investing in, you know, some stability. Some stability. I mean, this isn't just a, it isn't crazy that those things have been around for as long as they have those kind of long term commitments.

B (38:31)

Right.

A (38:31)

You know, they must do something for the human soul and they must provide something for people or people wouldn't still choose them. And if you live a life of nothing but freedom, then you end up having a life that doesn't have too much freedom at all. Because you, you can't commit to anything if you never choose anything.

C (38:50)

Right.

A (38:50)

It's like having an unused. I always compare it to the, hey, I've got a coupon for a free meal here. I don't want to use it because I don't want to lose the coupon.

B (39:00)

Right.

A (39:00)

It's like, okay, now tell me again the value of the coupon.

B (39:05)

That's, that's awesome. That's really cool that you found someone like that that could. And he helped you. He helped you work through a lot of things.

A (39:14)

Oh, big time. And we, you know, still to this day, we get together maybe once a year, once every couple of years. And that's great. And have talk life and everything. And he opened up a lot about his life, you know, like he never talked about his Vietnam service. And then one of the last conversations we have had, you know, he told me more about that and as a young man going over there and just the he described, he goes, you can't imagine what it does to a person to be in abject fear. And he just told me just amazing, incredible stories that were so visceral about the, the fear that he experienced over there and how that affected him.

C (39:54)

You can see why they don't talk about it much.

A (39:56)

Oh, yeah.

C (39:57)

Guys who went over.

A (39:58)

Yes.

B (39:58)

Yeah. Unless you really get to know someone and trust someone and then maybe you return the favor to him just by listening to that.

A (40:06)

Yeah.

B (40:07)

There's probably a lot of people that he didn't feel like he could tell those stories to.

A (40:11)

And then it's been great. When I've mentioned him on our radio show, every once in a while I'll mention his name and I'll hear from a lot of his former students who talk about how much they loved Steve Graham.

B (40:20)

Yeah.

A (40:21)

As their philosophy professor, that's an impact right there.

B (40:32)

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A (41:30)

Your snack time crunch time hero.

B (41:34)

Tired of partisan noise?

A (41:36)

America's more divided than ever. But independent Americans is adding light to contrast all all that heat.

B (41:42)

Independent Americans Daily News with Army veteran Paul Rykoff.

A (41:47)

Pressing issues of the day with leaders who are shaping what America will Be in the future. We're going to bring the righteous media five eyes. Independence, integrity, information, inspiration and impact.

B (41:58)

Join the movement independent Americans from believe. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Discovered when we were doing the users the podcast Cowboys Edition with Bob Sturm. We did that look back at Super Bowl 10 because Bob was looking at the 1975 season 76 Super Bowl. The Cowboys were an unlikely participant, made this great run that was the year of the Hail Mary and then played at that time what was the best super bowl ever? Lost to the Steelers 21 17. And as we were doing this episode and we were talking about Roger, Roger Stahlbach, I just realized he was such a big influence on me as a kid. And still to this day, I am a sports optimist. I always hope the best for my team. I always think, okay, yeah, they're down 21, but what if they get a touchdown here, maybe get an onside kick, and all of a sudden they're right back into it. I see the game of football, I see the game of life differently because of Roger and all of his comebacks, what he stood for, his strong morals, the fact that he defended our country. I love the feature called A Football Life. I've probably watched the one about Roger 10 times. I just can't get enough of it. I just think he is so inspiring of how we should all aspire to live our lives. You don't have to win a Heisman Trophy and win multiple Super Bowls in the NFL, but to attack your life like that, to always do your best, it's not always. It's not over. You got a chance to come back. He was so inspiring to me as a kid.

C (43:39)

What's it like to have one inspirational figure like that in your life?

B (43:45)

You wanted to be the Iceman. You wanted to score a basketball like, yeah.

C (43:49)

I mean, there have been George Gervin. There have been athletes and actors and things like that that I loved or admired, but nothing like that. I don't have a story like that.

B (43:58)

Well, there's only a few. There's only a few that fit into the area of Captain America, Captain Comeback. He just fit that of. Yeah, that's what an American hero looks like is Roger Staubach. And I still feel that way about him all these years later. I just think that I voted for him for president.

A (44:18)

That was a joke vote.

B (44:19)

It wasn't. It was my. I was using my freedom, my freedom that Roger fought for, to vote for the guy that I thought could maybe save us somehow.

A (44:29)

You're riding Two high horses at once. Did Wayman Tisdale mean, like, what life lesson did you get from Waymond Tisdale? Because he kind of inspired you on a life level in some way, didn't he?

C (44:42)

I mean, he was a great guy, extremely friendly, wonderful human being. Everybody loved him. We talked about this a couple episodes ago. Celebrity deaths that hit us hard. But mainly he inspired me with his incredible turnaround jumper. I just wanted to be like him on the court, like all of my athletic idols. Gervin, I just wanted to shoot the ball like him. Or Tisdale, turnaround jumper like him. Or Lamond, I just wanted to ride my bike like him and race like him. But you know, when it gets off. And I loved Roger Staubach too, but when it gets off into the personal, did they inspire you to be a better person? I don't know that any of my favorite athletes have ever done that for me. I guess I've never thought about it that deeply. I just thought about it. What I saw them doing on their field or court, that's what inspired me. Or on their bike, if they raced with panache or the way they trained or something that has inspired me. Reading about these guys training programs, that's the kind of inspiration I've drawn. But not.

A (45:45)

But see, I think that counts when you look at someone's a virtue of someone like the virtue of continuously suffering in order to practice to get better at something. Perseverance. I think when you look at a. And it can be the sports world anywhere else. And I've certainly seen that in my everyday life. Someone that I look at and I go, God, I really admire that person. They are always. They have such grit. I can't believe how resilient that person is and how they just stick with something. Yeah, that teaches you a lesson.

C (46:20)

Yeah, I think so too. Yeah. I used to just consume everything I could consume about Greg Lamond's training and how he and Lance Armstrong even, who kind of took training to another level in many ways, but just how, you know, regimented they were in their training or the hard rides they took, whatever. So I drew inspiration from those guys, certainly.

B (46:45)

Yeah. With Staubach and, and with Landry. Landry was a. A big one for me too. I heard him talk a couple of times. Fellowship of Christian Athlete. FCA or known as fca. And I was just so struck by his charisma, his class. And the results too is pretty incredible. What he did with 20 consecutive winning seasons. And that was the thing about the Cowboys that were so impactful. They were Just, I mean, they fit that image of as far as winning. It was like the good guys win most of the time. Couple super bowl losses that were heartbreaking. Super Bowl 5 and 10 and 13. But they won a lot more than they lost. And that whole element really was inspirational for me. And I've always taken that from coaches. Some I've known, some I've not known, like Lou Holtz. But I've become friends with a number of coaches through the years. One still coaching coaches at Texas Tech, Grant McCaslin. He coached at our alma mater, North Texas, after I stopped doing the games. But I would go to games, got to know him. He was just really in an engaging personality to talk to. And my gosh, he did what I thought was impossible. And that is advanced North Texas in the NCAA tournament. When they knocked down Purdue, I just thought, man, you're just the job you've done with these kids. And you made me believe. And it was just don't med. And I still follow his team to this day. We're still friends, we still correspond. Talk every once in a while. And watching his team play, they just lost their star player, J.T. toppin. And yet they went on the road and they just knocked off Iowa State, a top five team this last weekend. And last year when they got bounced in the NCAA tournament, when Texas Tech did, they got beat by Florida in the Elite Eight. And I've gone back and watched this, and I have this clip that I will go back and watch. His team just lost. They were devastated. They had a lead. Florida went on to beat him, went on to win the national championship. So who knows that they gotten by the gators, maybe Grant McCaslin and Texas Tech would have won the national championship. So here he is just minutes after at his press conference. And I've carried this with me since last spring. Now I'm just. I'm thankful that this group of guys, I think did get a tasting, did get to see what it means

C (49:18)

to really love your teammates the way that

B (49:21)

I think God tells us to give everything we have. And I mean, like, how do you

C (49:27)

give everything you have? How do you lay down your life?

B (49:31)

How do you sacrifice for other people?

C (49:33)

How do you love other people in a real way?

B (49:37)

And I think that's what builds from year to year. That's what he tries to build with his team every year. You know, it's, let's think outside of just ourselves. Let's give for your teammates and that, that whole thing. And not to get into religion, but that's why we're here, that's what God wants us to do, is to give your absolute best every day. I fall short all the time, but I go back to that of, you know, am I giving my best, whatever it is. To me, that was very inspirational and I save things like that from time to time from coaches or players that I hear it seems to be from athletics more. Sometimes it's just from someone who may be given a speech, could be a preacher. But I. That helps me. Just like a Visit with a 5th grade teacher or a high school counselor helped me all those years ago. Those comments like that, speeches like that still mean something to me and they still, they still help me to hear

A (50:37)

people say, how many times in our lives, though, do we truly give our very best?

C (50:42)

Very rarely, because we're always looking for shortcuts. And that is rarely your best.

B (50:47)

Well, here's a reminder that maybe stop, maybe start giving your best, whether it's the person you're married to or your child or your friend or whoever it is to go the extra mile to really try to, to help other people.

A (51:03)

Yes, but what is, I guess the question would be what is your best? Because you can't give your best to everything at every moment, of course, because you have to balance all the things you're supposed to give your best to.

B (51:14)

Yeah, you got to prioritize it. But even with the things that you think are important to you, do you give them your best?

C (51:21)

I would say most people don't have the bandwidth to give it their best. Whether it's at their job or in their personal relationships that just. It takes too much out of people to give their best. So they always kind of half ass it.

B (51:32)

Yeah, yeah, maybe. But there's a reminder that we should, as we've said before, try, try. You know, maybe just for one thing, whatever it is, whether it's exercise or eating or getting things squared away in your own life, just try to do your best that day.

A (51:52)

Like when you think of your life and this is for each of us, what is something that you think that you've given your best on? Like, it could be, I don't know, an event, a sporting event, or it could be, you know, something that you, you did, an accomplishment or performance. It could be anything like that.

B (52:12)

I can think of examples. Athletically, when I was swimming or playing golf, I gave it my absolute best. And it took me a while to realize what that meant. And that meant sometimes working out twice in the summertime when I was swimming, sometimes that when I was later in my high school career in golf, I gave it the absolute best I had with practice time, with, you know, just work on the range, with work on the putting green. I guess I could have given more.

A (52:46)

I have a lot of times where I've given my best at that moment, but it's always my best given the fact that I didn't do enough prep before time. Yeah, I have that event that I give it my best at that moment. The best I can do then provided the fact that I didn't give it my best in practicing.

B (53:03)

Yeah. But I could see a. A result, though, if you did your best. And we. We've turned this into cliche. If you did it for a period of time, 21 days, three months, you would see results. You had better swimming times, you had better scores on the course, maybe didn't win the tournament. But then we go back to another one. It's about progress, not perfection. Hey, take your. Your advances there. That's. That's progress. And it's because you gave your best

A (53:30)

and you gave no.

B (53:31)

At least a hard effort.

A (53:32)

I would say. Certainly the ones that you're talking about, if you did that and you did the. You gave it your best throughout all the preparation, and you gave it your best on the day, that counts, as that is an event that you gave your best on. Yeah, it's just I have very few of those that I did all the work ahead of time before the actual swim meet in this.

B (53:52)

Sure.

A (53:52)

In your case. But yeah, there. But there have been some times where, like certain times that I've been writing for the morning news where I do think, okay, this is the best that I can do right now for this piece. And some of those times, sometimes on our radio show, sometimes when I did TV work, I would say, yes, I did do my best then. And there's no greater feeling than the feeling of I actually did the absolute best that I could do because I think my whole life has been a series of unrealized potential. That's basically what wasted potential is. The name of my memoir that I'm working on right now, I just named it and.

B (54:33)

Not a bad name. Another one.

C (54:35)

Yeah. I think anything athletically, it's really hard to know if you gave it your best. So I raced my bike for 25 or 30 years, and my goal every year was to win one race. And a lot of those years I did. But even when I won that race, and I may have dug deeper than I ever thought I could dig to win that race at the end, I wondered could that win have been easier had I ridden a little more in training? Had I eaten the right things? Could I have won more than just one race that year? While it felt in that moment to what you were saying, Gordo, like I couldn't have dug any deeper. But had I prepped better, maybe I could have and maybe I could have won more races that year. And so I, maybe it's going back to our birth order thing and the perfectionist in the firstborn. I, most of the time, even though I trained my ass off for 30 years and did a lot of racing, most of the time I felt like I probably could have done better. And so, but I had a few moments like that, I think on our radio show. I think I've always tried to give it my best. We have done live radio for four and a half hours a day for 30 years. So it's not always going to hit. But I've always been an over preparer. I've never wanted to go into segments half assed because I have this incredible fear of failing on the air. So I think most of the time I've given that my best and in some personal relationships I've tried to give it my best. Like being a late in life father, I'm. I really think I am giving it just about my best there. I've had very few moments that I've regretted in raising our daughter and I don't think that would have been the case had I had her 30 years ago. I think I would have half assed a lot of it.

B (56:25)

Yeah.

A (56:25)

It seems like most athletes and most great artists always say something very similar, which is that most people don't want to do what it takes to be great. And that's why most great people, great artists usually you always find a wreckage of personal life back behind.

C (56:46)

Yes.

A (56:47)

Because to have this singular obsession to be a great painter, a great playwright, a great athlete and everything, it takes such singular focus that things around you suffer. You can't lead a complete human life because you have to be so focused on that one goal that you can excel that much in.

C (57:10)

Right.

A (57:10)

That it has to come from somewhere. And it's almost like it's a zero sum game, you know, to, to spend that much of your time and attention and love for your art, your art where, whether it's sports or whatever it is that you just. Everything else suffers.

C (57:28)

So goes back to the bandwidth thing. Yeah, we just don't have the bandwidth. We have it our best.

A (57:33)

You have to allocate, you have to allocate your bandwidth to multiple things in order to lead a well rounded, healthy life.

C (57:41)

Yep.

B (57:42)

Yeah. And I know within my family, I know I've tried to give my best emotionally and physically to kids and siblings and parents and wife certainly have fallen short. And I guess that's up to their interpretation. Maybe it wasn't always received that way, but I sure did. Whether it was staying up till 2 o' clock in the morning with a child who's vomiting, you know, or anything that I think about when you did that sense to give them, or you

A (58:11)

stay up, you know, with the kid and then the next day on the air you may suck, you know, so that's not giving your best at work because you had to allocate some of your best time to the kid.

B (58:21)

And we go back to what you prioritize. And the health of my child is more important, important than a radio show.

A (58:28)

But your radio shows, your, your job that then provides the health care to your child.

B (58:32)

And that's why I was still here at 5 o' clock in the morning.

A (58:34)

Complicated.

B (58:35)

Say anything. There were times, there were many times as a parent where I would be up at 2:00 in the morning. One time returning from the emergency room with a child at 3:00 in the morning, thinking, what are Craig and Gordon are doing right now? Because I got to wake up in two hours. But you did it and you tried to do your best once you got there. And I've always felt that way from the moment I took my first job. I've always tried to give my best. And maybe it's just something that's just a loose comment, hey, I gave it my best. Did you really do it? And that's what Grant McCaslin is talking about there, that sometimes you do, and even when you fall short. Yeah, but the effort was there. And sometimes that, that goes a long way to success. Whatever you label as success is the effort and what you put into something.

A (59:29)

But then again, what about the people who don't put effort into it? And it's still great.

B (59:33)

Seems to work out like Picasso towards

A (59:35)

the end of his life. I guess you could say he put in the practice hours to get there, but then when he just signs a napkin and it's worth $50 million, it's like, yeah, is that really that great of a piece of art there?

B (59:48)

Do you believe in the harder you, the harder you work, the luckier you get? I think there is something to do that, yes, that, that does seem to, to pay off the hard work that you put into something. Yeah, I'm like, I said I could go for six to seven hours on people around me, people I've seen in sports, people I've seen in music who make it look really easy, but, you know, it's not. Michael Jordan always made it look easy. But we didn't see the hours and hours and hours that he would shoot, dribble, and perfect his craft.

A (60:25)

And that's what most people. Most of us are all sorry. And we look at other people's lives who are. They got good things happening in their life and things are going on, you know, and we go, that's unfair that that person makes that much money and gets that much attention for doing that thing. But we never back up the reel to look at, okay, what did they do to get there? And it's like, well, most of them chose not to do that. So while I'm bitching about some guy who's, yeah, this guy's making all this money, get all this attention, everything. Yeah. And he also went to law school while I was out drinking. So, I mean, so what's the. He planted some seeds, and now I'm bitching that they grew. And so maybe I should shut up.

B (61:13)

Well, hopefully we learned. I. I learned something. Here's one more. And this is why we've never seen the movie Rudy the same. You hate that movie and hate the story of Rudy.

C (61:24)

It's the most overblown story ever.

B (61:26)

And I understand that because some former Irish players have come forth and said, yeah, that movie's kind of. It really didn't happen.

C (61:35)

That never happened. We barely knew the guy didn't shite.

B (61:38)

But there was something in that with a guy who could really, if he really did, stick with it for three or four years as basically being a tackling dummy. Whether he got on the field or not, just that, to me is an accomplishment. How many would be willing to do that just to get the suit up one time in three or four years? I would say that number would be. If you've ever been on a football field and been flattened before, it's not something you want to put on repeat. And he did. And I was giving him credit for that. Hey, hung in there. Did he deserve a game day jersey and deserve to go out there and run on a kickoff team? I don't know that he really make the tackle. I don't even know if you're the

C (62:19)

guy that hates imposters in sports or guys like Tony Romo who take up a spot in a PGA tournament. Well, this guy was Taking a snap from someone who was much more deserving, a much better player. Yeah.

B (62:32)

At the end of a game. And I don't even know about that. I'm just saying I respect the process of staying with it for three years, being a tackling dummy. And I've known guys like that who never got into the game, but they. But they, you know, they made it through. The message of Rudy is okay. Was it ruined by Hollywood? Maybe, but there's a decent message in there.

A (62:53)

But if it was your son that Rudy took that spot from in that game, it was your son's chance to get in there, would you still have the same feeling? It's okay. I mean, I know that you're a

B (63:03)

better player, and my son never played either.

C (63:05)

He never got a snap.

A (63:06)

He actually earned that spot more than

C (63:09)

Rudy and was a much better player.

B (63:10)

Well, sure.

A (63:10)

In that very narrow, very narrow, very

B (63:13)

narrow line that you got from your philosophy teacher.

A (63:16)

Yeah, he told me that right before he passed away.

B (63:18)

Even though he's still alive then, yes, of course I would have a problem with it and say, hey, wait a minute. My son's put in the work, too. He probably deserves that chance. But I understand the message of Rudy. Was it overblown, over cliched? Yes. But there's a message in there somewhere that maybe it did. Maybe that movie inspired someone somewhere along the way, that if you suck for

A (63:39)

long enough, you get an opportunity sucking.

B (63:41)

It's about sticking with it.

C (63:42)

See, and my guess is, as crazy as college football fans are, there are thousands at each school that would be a tackling dummy for three years just to get in for one play to put an Alabama helmet on. I'm telling you, they would say they played for Alabama. Look at all the 12th men at a and M. And guarantee you there'd be people that would do that and

A (64:04)

then have a movie about it.

B (64:05)

There would be. There would be very few, though. After about a week or so. They would quit after two weeks, three weeks. Could you last from August all the way to January or now February? I don't think so.

C (64:16)

They're crazy, I'm telling you.

B (64:18)

I know.

A (64:18)

Well, I was the root of the ticket because I just hung around long enough that they said, okay, fine, go on the air.

B (64:24)

I'm sure you've inspired a lot of people through the years, Gordo.

A (64:27)

I was just hanging around, not making any money up here, doing whatever.

B (64:32)

As I said, the ticket. Stray dog that became her biggest star. It's an amazing story.

A (64:37)

Yeah. Why don't they make a Rudy Movie about me.

B (64:39)

They should, they should make a movie about boring movie.

A (64:43)

Better story than Rudy all time.

B (64:44)

It wouldn't either be a fascinating movie. I'd be in line to see it.

A (64:50)

Hey, you said you were going to tell us the. The one you teased ahead that was an influential person. That's a celebrity. Who's that?

C (64:58)

I actually had three on my list.

A (65:00)

Three, okay, three for one. Three person.

C (65:03)

And I predicted that you guys couldn't guess them. Do you want to try Steve Martin? Nope.

B (65:07)

Wow.

A (65:08)

Well, he said that we wouldn't guess it, so it can't be Steve Martin.

C (65:10)

I mean, yes, he influenced me, but I didn't a stand up comedian.

A (65:16)

Okay, so here we go.

C (65:18)

These are professional influences guys that influenced me as a broadcaster.

A (65:22)

Okay, here we go. Piers Morgan, Kathie Lee Gifford, Marv Albert and Marv Albert.

C (65:27)

How did you get all three? Kathy Lee Gifford at the top of the list. Gosh, no. Larry King.

B (65:36)

I should have got that one.

A (65:37)

Which is a good one. Right, because he listens to the conversation and asks questions based on that rather than going through a list of questions that he has written out.

C (65:45)

Yes. I always found it amazing that when he did an interview and I listened to Larry King back when he did his old overnight show on Mutual. Hello. And it was on from 11pm where I lived to 4:30am and in the summer when I was out of school, I would stay up all night and listen. And he even came to Dallas once and did his show on the top of Reunion Tower. And I went to see it and actually talked to him during a commercial break. Such a thrill. He was such a brilliant talk show host.

B (66:12)

Yeah, he was great.

C (66:13)

And I think most people got to know him on cnn. And then he became a caricature of himself. So when I say Larry King was a huge influence, a lot of people kind of laugh. But if you heard him do his overnight radio show, he was perfection. And when I heard that the way he interviewed a guest was that he wrote down one question. It was just his opening question, do I look weird? And then, and then every subsequent question

A (66:42)

he asked was based gargoyle and suspenders.

C (66:45)

Every subsequent question he asked was based on the response he got from the subject.

B (66:50)

I wonder if that ever went sideways for him.

A (66:52)

I'm sure it did. He interviewed Billy.

B (66:54)

Heavens be bang.

C (66:55)

I mean, I never heard it go sideways, but he could talk about everything. He knew a little bit about everything. The way he handled Open Phone America and took calls and dealt with the callers was just, it was perfect. Everything about it Was perfect. And the stories he told. He had so many great stories from all his years in radio. And the stories were so good, he would replay them quite often. He was a brilliant storyteller. So Larry King is, like, at the top of my list of influences professionally. The other two were Sam Smith. Do you know who that is?

A (67:30)

The singer?

B (67:31)

The former voice of the Spurs? Yes, he was Chaparrals too.

C (67:36)

No, that was Terry Stembridge with the Chaparrals and then the Spurs. But after Stembridge, Sam Smith took over. And I just thought he was the smoothest, best play by play guy I had ever heard. And I think he later did the Miami Heat. He did another NBA team, but he was the spurs play by play guy for probably 10 or 15 years. I think maybe 10. But I talked to him once after a game and he was the nicest human being. So I had already idolized this guy. And then he was this incredibly nice man. So I always patterned any games that I would do after Sam Smith. And the third guy is Bill McAtee. Do you remember him?

B (68:11)

Oh, yeah. Started in Dallas and then went network.

C (68:15)

He was a TV sportscaster and he was at Channel 8 in Dallas. And when I was in college, I wanted to do whatever, radio or tv. And I thought he was the best TV sportscaster I had ever seen. Everybody. Dale Hanson, who was also great in our market. He got a lot of publicity, but he was loud and funny and he was also great. But Bill McAtee was at Channel 8 as well and was just this, I thought, perfect broadcaster. Just the way he delivered his content, it was so smooth and written so perfectly. And he just had this casual demeanor about him, but yet still professional, still a broadcaster. And I always thought if I ever got on TV and I did a little TV work, eventually in my career, I wanted to be just like Bill McAtee. So those were my three.

B (69:06)

That was strong.

C (69:07)

I don't think you guys could have guessed. You could have gotten Larry King.

B (69:10)

Larry King. We should have guessed.

A (69:11)

He's the only one I've heard of,

C (69:12)

but not the other two. Yeah.

B (69:16)

Shout out Larry King.

A (69:17)

Thank you, George. I'm down here in lower heaven preaching about Ginsana.

B (69:24)

You saw a float shoulder?

A (69:26)

Yeah. Take a bite out of crime while you're at it, too. I got an unstable Larry King happening over here.

B (69:33)

Well, that was fun. Hope you enjoyed it. Another edition of the Musers, the podcast. If you want to email us the Muser's podcast at Gmail. We love getting emails. We got them all the way from New Zealand this week.

A (69:45)

Yeah. How long did that take to get over here?

B (69:47)

Oh, man, took forever.

A (69:48)

New Zealand.

B (69:48)

Yeah. And we'll talk to you next time on the Musers the podcast.

A (69:52)

See ya.

C (69:55)

Thanks for listening.

A (69:56)

Don't forget new episodes every Wednesday and Cowboys weekly edition with your football friends on Thursday. So hit follow or subscribe or whatever on on the podcast player using right now to make sure you don't miss an episode. The Musers the podcast is a tired head production.

B (70:19)

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