Brady Bunch Make Out Session - Episode 33

Summary

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The Musers The Podcast – Episode 33: Brady Bunch Make Out Session

Release Date: February 25, 2026
Hosts: George Dunham, Craig “Junior” Miller, Gordon Keith

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the longstanding theory of birth order and how it shapes personalities, sibling relationships, and family dynamics. Each of The Musers brings their own unique perspective to the discussion, reflecting their actual positions within their families: Craig is a firstborn, Gordo (Gordon) is a middle child, and George is a last born in a large family. Packed with personal stories, humor, and offbeat observations, this episode breaks down classic birth order stereotypes, analyzes whether they fit The Musers and their families, and meanders into uniquely “Musers” territory—including discussions of imaginary friends and hypothetical Brady Bunch make-out scenarios.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hilarious Listener Letter: The Fart Incident

[00:40–04:13]

• Listener Letter: Keto, responding to a previous "fart episode," shares an embarrassing middle school story about sitting behind the most beautiful girl in class, who accidentally “machine-gun” farted upon sitting down. He missed his moment to be supportive and spent the rest of the year avoiding her.
• Insight/Laughter:
  • Gordo and George agree that pretending not to have heard it is the best course ("She didn't need you the most." – Gordo, 02:57).
  • The Musers riff on how you shouldn’t try to “save” someone from such embarrassment.
  • "You don't want to paint yourself as a farter" – Gordo, 04:33.
• Memorable Moment:
  • Craig: “There was no way I couldn’t since I was only a couple feet away from her. She just looked at me with a disgusted facial expression and turned back around. I had blown it.” [02:54]

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2. Birth Order: Why The Musers Are Perfect for the Topic

[04:47–06:09]

• Craig contextualizes the theme: Each Muser represents a classic birth order – oldest (Craig), middle (Gordo), and youngest (George)—and all hail from very different family sizes.
• Key Quote:
  • Craig: "What podcast is better equipped to handle the topic of birth order than the Musers The Podcast? Can’t think of one better." [05:00]
• Insight: They agree that birth order is just one of many factors shaping personality, but it's a fun lens.

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3. Firstborn Characteristics & Real-Life Examples

[07:33–15:01]

• Craig lists classic firstborn traits: Responsible, structured, competitive, confident, well-behaved, bossy, cautious, intelligent, a leader, perfectionist, Type A, never cut themselves slack.
  • Gordo teases: “Oh my gosh, we can’t walk in through a door before Craig. Yeah, he has to be first.” [08:43]
• Personal Reflections:
  • George tells stories about his eldest son meticulously following rules (chocolate milk only once a week) versus his middle child (chocolate milk every day without hesitation) [09:21–10:06].
  • Craig confesses remaining haunted by on-air mistakes—a perfectionist’s curse [13:54].
• Memorable Parenting Moment:
  • George tells the story of accidentally crushing his son's first near-win in golf by sinking a "100-foot putt" and then showboating [15:53–16:51]. "That's bad parenting, isn't it?" [17:23]

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4. Middle Child Mystique

[20:38–27:45]

• Craig introduces classic middle child traits: Independent, diplomatic, agreeable, people pleaser, realistic, negotiator, low self-esteem, moderate risk-taker, family peacemaker.
• Gordo’s Real Talk: Openly admits not fitting all the stereotypes—was more of a disruptor/troublemaker than a “peacemaker.”
  • “I felt like I was in no man’s land in my family… I was also a real troublemaker… so I don’t know I’d rank high on the agreeability scale.” [22:11–23:01]
• Birth Order Variation: Discussion about how ranks can shift in large families and underlines the variability and adaptability required of middle children.
• Stereotype Humor: “As a middle kid, you have to carve out your own identity because you don’t have one, you’re not the oldest and you’re not the youngest. So what are you going to be that’s going to make you special?” – Gordo [26:57]

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5. Last Born/Youngest Child Traits

[32:06–40:21]

• Classic Traits Read Aloud: Outgoing, social, rebellious, spoiled, carefree, attention-seeker, manipulative, free thinker, free spirit, risk-taker.
  • “Maybe manipulative—that’s the word that describes you, George.” – Craig [33:16]
• George’s Reflections:
  • Feels he’s a blend of “youngest” and “only child” due to big age gap (10 years) between him and his next sibling.
  • Grew up quiet and shy unless with family; became outgoing and creative as he matured—especially when alone (imaginative play, making up songs).
• Imaginary Friends Segment:
  • George once turned into an imaginary dog named Ruff (“I would be the dog. Oh, hey, Ruff.” [35:12]).
  • Craig had entire imaginary basketball teams (University of Amarillo Armadillos: “I had the same guys—John and Norm and Dan and Jack—and this was our basketball team.” [35:45–36:53])
  • George: “Man, I’m counseling so bad. I just got so many issues.” [35:35]

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6. Only Child & Twins Dynamics

[40:37–41:30]

• Only Children: Similar traits to firstborns—perfectionist, conscientious, diligent, leader. George feels like a combo “youngest and only child."
• Twins: Amusing speculation about whether the "earlier-born" twin is the default firstborn or if twins share a single soul. (“Twins, they split a soul, right? They don’t have their own soul.” – Gordo [41:07])

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7. Parenting & Sibling Age Gaps

[29:55–30:35], [41:52–42:47]

• Parents relax significantly with youngest children (e.g., first kid’s pacifier is sanitized, for the last kid they “pick the dog hairs off it and go, here you go.” – George [31:44]).
• The large age gap between George and his siblings makes him a hybrid, experiencing both “youngest” and “only child” effects.

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8. Sibling Competition & Athletic Success

[45:41–48:43]

• Sports Insight: Middle and youngest siblings often become the best athletes due to “strength of schedule”—competing with older siblings from an early age.
  • George shares his middle son (who played college football) suited up at age 5 to help in his older brother’s little league baseball game [46:36–47:37].
  • “Almost always the best athlete out of a family was a middle kid or a baby and very rarely the oldest kid.” – Craig [46:31]

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9. Blended Families & Brady Bunch Scenarios

[49:08–51:24]

• Brady Bunch What-If: What happens when step-siblings have pre-existing crushes? The guys riff on whether Greg and Marsha (from the show) could theoretically maintain a relationship if their parents married.
  • George: “Y’all can’t make out.” [50:05]
  • Gordo: “You’re damning Greg and Marsha, they’re always going to hate their new step-parents because they were the ones that denied them the love of their life.” [51:03]
  • “Those were the episodes we didn’t see of the Brady Bunch. That’s in the director’s cut.” – Gordo [51:20]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Listener Letter: Fart Story – 00:40–04:13
• Birth Order Introduction – 04:47–06:09
• Firstborn Traits & Stories – 07:33–15:01
• Middle Child Mystique – 20:38–27:45
• Last Born Child Traits – 32:06–40:21
• Imaginary Friends Segment – 34:54–37:48
• Parenting & Sibling Age Gaps – 29:55–30:35, 41:52–42:47
• Sibling Competition & Athletics – 45:41–48:43
• Brady Bunch Blended Family Scenario – 49:08–51:24

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Craig: “What podcast is better equipped to handle the topic of birth order than the Musers The Podcast?” [05:00]
• Gordo on firstborn traits: “Oh my gosh, we can’t walk in through a door before Craig. Yeah, he has to be first.” [08:43]
• George on relaxed parenting: “By the time we had our third, we would pick the dog hairs off of it and go, here you go.” [31:44]
• Craig on imaginary teammates: “I created a college—University of Amarillo Armadillos...and I did that for years because after three years...I had to go pro.” [36:46]
• Gordo on middle child reality: “As a middle kid, you have to carve out your own identity because you don't have one, you're not the oldest and you're not the youngest. So what are you going to be that's going to make you special?” [26:57]
• Brady Bunch hypothetical:
  • Craig: “At the dinner table with everyone you look over and the brother and sister are making out. You can’t have that dynamic.” [51:00]
  • Gordo: “You’re damning Greg and Marsha, they’re always going to hate their new step-parents because they were the ones that denied them the love of their life.” [51:03]

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Tone & Style

The Musers keep the conversation relaxed, personal, and playful while tackling classic pop-psychology topics with their trademark banter. The show balances nostalgia, genuine insight, and irreverent humor ("I would be the dog. Oh, hey, Ruff.")—making even the most random digressions feel engaging and relatable.

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For listeners new and old, this episode offers both classic Ticket banter and surprisingly heartfelt reflections on why we are the way we are—and what it means to be a firstborn, middle child, or family 'baby.'

Transcript

[George Dunham]

And sometimes I would turn into the dog.

[Gordon Keith]

Wait, wait, what?

[George Dunham]

Named Ruff.

[Craig Miller]

You would turn into the dog?

[George Dunham]

I would be the dog. Oh, hey, Ruff.

[Craig Miller]

How are you?

[Podcast Announcer]

Here it is, the Musers, the podcast. Episode 33 Brady Bunch Makeout Session.

[Craig Miller]

Welcome to another episode of the the Podcast, America's favorite new podcast. I'm Craig Miller.

[George Dunham]

I'm George Dunham.

[Gordon Keith]

I am Gordon Keith.

[Craig Miller]

How are you all this week, man?

[Gordon Keith]

I'm doing great, Junes. How have you been? Haven't seen you in a while. What's going on?

[George Dunham]

See him every day.

[Craig Miller]

Everything's good. Yeah, happy to report, everything is pretty good. And I'm really looking forward to today's topic because we happen to be the perfect podcast to discuss said topic. And you'll find out why in just a moment. But first, our letter of the week. And thanks to Keto for sending in this story in response to our fart episode. And this story made me laugh out loud several times. He writes. While in the eighth grade, I had a class with one of the most beautiful girls in school who sat in her assigned seat right in front of me for the entire semester.

[Gordon Keith]

I don't like where this is going.

[Craig Miller]

She wore hip hugger jeans, sandals and halter tops almost every day. She could have been a model. I could never look her in the face. If she turned my way, I would freeze up. I never spoke to her, never had the courage. She was out of my league. One day I was already seated when she came walking in wearing her hip hugger jeans, looking perfect. And she sat down. And then when she crossed her legs, it squeezed out a fart machine gun style. Sheer panic seized my entire body. My goddess just farted. She froze in panic, not knowing who heard it because the classroom was still loud with people chatting before the bell rang. I knew she would eventually turn around my way and my heart started pounding out of my chest. Slowly, she turned to look at me. I turned away, hoping she wouldn't see me. After several seconds of sensing that she was staring at me, she said, did you hear that? Instead of seizing this moment to be cool and break the ice with the hottest girl of my life, I froze up. I had no hip and cool comeback, nothing suave, nothing to help make her feel better and reduce the embarrassment. So I acted like I didn't hear her question. After several agonizing seconds, I said, what? I don't know what you're talking about. But she knew I had heard it. There was no way I couldn't since I was only a couple feet away from her. She just looked at me with a disgusted facial expression and turned back around. I had blown it. I let her down when she needed me the most.

[Gordon Keith]

She didn't need you the most.

[George Dunham]

I think he played it right.

[Craig Miller]

I never talked to her again. I could never bring myself to even look her way for fear that we would lock eyes and she would see through my soul.

[Advertisement Voice]

What?

[Craig Miller]

The school year ended and I never saw her again.

[George Dunham]

Oh, man.

[Gordon Keith]

All right, a few thoughts. I'm kind of with George in that I think that this is the right move. I think it's better for her that he doesn't make any sort of production about it. He doesn't do this. I know he's seeing it as a moment to do. Yeah, I really heard that. And I want you to know that it's safe with me. He doesn't need to do any of that stuff. Just pretend like you didn't hear it and it's fine, but don't avoid it

[George Dunham]

for the rest of your life.

[Gordon Keith]

Yeah, that's weird. The other thing is, you know, this may not have been that kind of wind. All right.

[Craig Miller]

Good Lord.

[Gordon Keith]

I'm just saying. I'm just letting you know that there may be other things that were at work here.

[Craig Miller]

It's possible. Yes, but.

[Gordon Keith]

But no matter what kind it was still should not be commented upon and should just. Yes, he should have moved on and never mentioned it again, particularly in a letter to us.

[Craig Miller]

Right, because she could be listening, right, to this podcast.

[George Dunham]

She hears it.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah, I remember. I was the guy, a girl sitting in front of Keto. I can't believe he's outing me.

[Gordon Keith]

She thought she was finally in the clear on that.

[Craig Miller]

Plus, if you're thinking you're going to comfort her, I don't know what you could have said to comfort her.

[George Dunham]

Nothing.

[Gordon Keith]

There is no comfort.

[Craig Miller]

You don't want to say, don't worry about it. I do that all the time, too. Because you don't want to paint yourself

[Gordon Keith]

as a farter and you don't know what kind it was, so you can't

[George Dunham]

keep it with that. You just. Yeah, you made the right play by not saying anything.

[Craig Miller]

Well, if you'd like to email us about anything, reach us at our email address, themuserspodmail.com now to today's topic, birth order. Why are we the perfect show to discuss this topic? Well, because I'm a firstborn, Gordo is a middle child, and George is a last born. So what podcast is better equipped to handle the topic of birth order than the Musers? The podcast can't think of one better. I was the oldest of two, Gordo the middle of three, and George, the baby of five. So this podcast is tailor made to handle this topic and we should get this out of the way early. While many, if not most, believe that birth order plays a role or significant role in, in a child's development and personality, we need to keep in mind that it's really just one of a million things that go into making up a personality, because there are so many variables. Even within the birth order topic, there are so many variables. Family structure, socioeconomic status, when and where you were born, what your parents were like. Did you have a single parent household? I mean, there's just so much that goes into it. But I think we can draw a lot out of birth order into the making of our personalities.

[George Dunham]

Yes, absolutely. It's not absolute, but there are, there are times, like the guy who makes a routine on Instagram and TikTok of being either the firstborn, the middle son, or the last son. We have three boys and it is spot on sometimes. And that's why it's so funny to us, because he captures the personalities of all three of our, our boys. And yeah, it's really funny. I think parents get a huge kick out of that.

[Gordon Keith]

So did you. When were you aware of the birth order thing and did you know, like after the, as they were born? Did you and your wife comment on it? Or is this something that you found out later and then you look back and go, man, this really describes them.

[George Dunham]

I think it went as. Yeah, later, well into like my youngest life, like four or five years. And I think you maybe brought up the fact that my middle child, you always used to say he's going to be the crazy one, because that's what I was. I was the middle child.

[Gordon Keith]

That's right.

[George Dunham]

And he is, he was the craziest. He was kind of the craziest one. He came up with a lot of crazy theories. Still does. So yeah, that, that definitely fits the middle child. And that fits in my family of five, too. My brother, who's closest to me in age is seen as kind of the crazy one and he was right in the middle of five. So yeah, that matches up.

[Craig Miller]

Okay, why don't we take each spot because I've got a list of all of the characteristics of firstborn, middle child and last born. And let's run through these and let's see, since we are each one of these, if we identify with these or if the other two guys thinks these are Accurate. And then, yeah, if it fits your kids, then we can go that route too. So we'll start with the firstborn. These are traits that are normally associated with firstborn children. So this would be me. And the general thought is that being the firstborn, you get a tremendous amount of attention from your parents because there are no other kids, so that the firstborn kid is likely pushed harder. They get a lot of responsibilities around the house because they're the oldest. You know, they're going to be the babysitters for the others and things like that. And that can ramp up the pressure on these kids. And for maybe many years, they're hanging out with only adults. So that helps shape their identity as well. So these are the traits of firstborn kids. They're responsible, they're very structured, they're competitive. Yes.

[Gordon Keith]

Oh, my gosh. We can't walk in through a door before Craig. Yeah, he has to be first. He's got to walk through first.

[Craig Miller]

That's not true. They're confident

[Gordon Keith]

too much.

[Craig Miller]

Well behaved, bossy, cautious, intelligent. That's spot on.

[Gordon Keith]

Okay. You're not allowed to comment on it.

[Craig Miller]

A leader, a perfectionist, type a personality, never cut themselves any slack.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Gordon Keith]

Yeah, I'd say that's pretty.

[George Dunham]

A lot of those.

[Gordon Keith]

Pretty spot on.

[George Dunham]

Yeah. And I can see that in my. My oldest as well. He was. He would also abide by the rules. And that was always really funny as time would go by. You know, we told him at a very young age, look, you can only get chocolate milk once a week. And he did. And he would follow the world. He would always do it. And then we took my middle child to the doctor because he had so many stomach pains trying to figure out what's going on. Well, what do you have at lunch? I don't know. Have chocolate milk every day. He gets it every day. How does he get that every day? And meantime, our, you know, our oldest was abiding by the rules, only got it once a week. And our middleman, Blake's like, yeah, I get it every day. What's the big deal? Chocolate milk's great.

[Craig Miller]

Did you guys find these characteristics fit your firstborn in your families when you were kids, your older brothers?

[George Dunham]

Yes. Tad was our oldest, and he was responsible. He was very intelligent. He was a perfectionist. And I do think my family's really unique. And I was just thinking about this recently. For him, it must have been really difficult because as a parent, when I viewed first versus second born, the firstborn had such a tough time. When you introduce, hey, Guess what? We have another one of these things. Right. So he had to deal with a sister two years younger, then a brother four years younger than another sister six years younger. And then I came along 10 years later after my next sibling. So I think with him, he was pretty much done with it after about the age of 9 or 10. And he really did kind of gravitate towards my grandparents and spent a lot of time with them. And I could see now why sometimes he wasn't always, you know, in on our family activities because, I mean, he went to college when I was 2.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

So I don't.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah.

[Gordon Keith]

Didn't you say he didn't learn your name until you were three or four years old?

[George Dunham]

least that. At least that. No. He was always really sweet to me, and all my siblings were. But it was. I. I've really thought about him a lot lately, and it must have been really difficult on him with so many siblings. I thought it was awesome to be in a big family. But I bet every two years, what was such a tradition for the first eight years of his life must have been like, oh, my gosh, another one of these things is coming home.

[Craig Miller]

Gordo, was your older brother Boo, like this, or is he still typing?

[Gordon Keith]

Yeah, he was certainly much more responsible and. And all of that than I was. But he also had, you know, he also was a rock and roller and was at bands and stuff like that, which wasn't so responsible. So he had kind of a Rum Springer type era where he went a little crazy before he came back to the Amish fold and finished his college degree and went on to get a decent job and all that stuff.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah. As a firstborn, when I look at this list, it checks just about every box. It's really weird how it does. But cautious, you know, I've always been very cautious. Rule follower, well behaved. I never got in trouble. We. On our radio show, the topic came up recently about, did you ever get licks when you were a kid? Did you get spankings? And everybody pretty much had a story of getting a spanking in school except for me. And if you didn't get spanked in school, like Gordo, you were in school. Suspension a lot. But I never got that. I just was always keeping it between the lines and never got in trouble. Never came close to spanking. Got a couple from my dad at home. But yeah, being a perfectionist, this is something that I don't really like about myself and has tortured me for a long time on our radio side of our career. Is that, and I've noticed this, like, we all make mistakes because we do live radio four and a half hours a day now, three hours a day. And we've done that for 30 plus years. And when I make a mistake, it sticks with me the rest of the day, the rest of the week. I can't shrug it off. You guys being a middle child and a last born, seem to shrug it off a lot better than me. But I live with this burden of being a perfectionist. And I realize I can never be perfect in really anything. But you still have that carrot out there. It's like I have to try every day to be perfect. And if I just stumble over a word in a segment that I'm presenting, it bothers me. Like I can't explain.

[Gordon Keith]

That is a curse. It is, yeah.

[George Dunham]

Yeah. It doesn't bother me as much. And we, I think that's where we do have a lot of differences. Things that, that bug you don't even register with me. And some. And vice versa. Some things that get to me probably, yeah. Are not really seen by you.

[Craig Miller]

The part about oldest children are responsible and very well structured. I kind of like that. I like having a structured life or having a plan. The one that says that they're competitive, I don't know that that's me. I mean, I am competitive. You know, when it comes to. I want our radio show to do really well. I want our podcast to do really well. But in sports, and maybe it's because I was always the youngest in my class and so I was never physically dominant, so I never could really compete. So I learned to not be overly competitive. Even in sports that I took up later in life. I didn't really care if I lost. You know, I just, it was just fun to compete, but I wasn't necessarily competitive. So I don't know if that one checks the box, but most of the others do.

[George Dunham]

You know, I look at my time with my oldest and for the longest time I would let him win whatever we were playing cards or, you know, some sort of game. And I think that grew on him to where he had this like undefeated streak, you know, from the age of when he started playing games till he's about 4 or 5. And then I started introducing losses to him and he would lose his mind. Yeah, he couldn't handle it. And he got better about that as time went on.

[Gordon Keith]

I don't know what the right call is there.

[Craig Miller]

I don't either.

[Gordon Keith]

Because you got to give a kid a few wins in order for them to Stay interested in the game, right?

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Gordon Keith]

But I think maybe the third time you play it, you need to hand him a loss then and then give him a couple more wins. You got to pace the losses in pretty early.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Gordon Keith]

In order for them to know that loss is an option.

[George Dunham]

Yeah. Just to introduce that that is a possibility you may lose. And this is maybe my worst moment of parenting. We've told this on a radio show before. I played golf growing up, introduced it to my oldest son. He's our best player. He played in high school, probably could have played in college, but decided not to. And he's still really good. He's a scratch player. About the time he was 12 or 13, he was getting where he could almost beat me. And he had a chance to beat me one day going into 18 and I had to make like a hundred foot putt or he was going to beat me. So I was out and I knocked it in from 100ft away.

[Gordon Keith]

100ft?

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Gordon Keith]

That's no exaggeration.

[Craig Miller]

No.

[George Dunham]

It was like on the other side of the green. I was just trying to get it. I was like, how am I going to handle this when he starts dancing around the green and celebrating?

[Gordon Keith]

This is going to be his first victory.

[George Dunham]

This is going to be his first win. And instead I drain it from 100ft and ran around the green like Hale Irwin with my hand up.

[Gordon Keith]

You couldn't help yourself.

[Craig Miller]

It was just crazy.

[George Dunham]

I looked back at that and he really was crushed. Just kind of like, oh my gosh. But there was something great about that. Like, yeah, just when you think you got the old man, you don't. And we laugh about it now, but I did not handle that well at all. And taking on he and his brother one time and one on two, they would try to beat me in basketball in the driveway. And there are countless times when I'd make the winning shot and just run inside like I was running into the locker room. That's bad parenting, isn't it?

[Gordon Keith]

Why were you so childish?

[George Dunham]

I was trying to do it as a joke, but one time they got really mad at me. It's not funny, dad, when you do that.

[Gordon Keith]

Okay. You know when they say that to you? Certainly that was a wake up call, right?

[George Dunham]

Sorry, guys. I was just joking around.

[Craig Miller]

Me crash talking your kid.

[George Dunham]

I'm thinking, yeah, take that. Terrible parenting. Just terrible.

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[Craig Miller]

The only other one on this list of firstborn traits. A leader. I've always felt like I had the role of just when we go on road trips, the three of us, I always drive, right? I book our flights. I do our timesheets each week. And I, I just kind of naturally fell into that and I, I like doing it. I've never minded it.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, that's fine with us.

[Gordon Keith]

I think y' all ought to leave it up to me a little bit more often.

[George Dunham]

Oh, my God. But that is get anywhere.

[Craig Miller]

That is the oldest child in me coming out, just so you guys know.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, no, that' with us. We go along with it. Middle child. Yeah. Cool. That's fine. Chocolate milk. Great.

[Gordon Keith]

All right. You playing the rental car? I'll be drinking chocolate milk and that's

[Craig Miller]

Fine with me too. Okay, let's get to the traits of the middle child. This would be Gordo.

[George Dunham]

Oh.

[Craig Miller]

Who was the middle of three. And generally speaking, again, there are no absolutes here, but generally speaking, the middle child usually doesn't get as much attention as the older or the baby. They may feel overlooked or squeezed by siblings. Research has found that parents don't provide later born children with the same cognitive support as they offer the firstborn kid.

[Gordon Keith]

That's very evident.

[Craig Miller]

So sometimes those kids have to work a little extra hard. But, you know, the older kid is also working hard because the parents have the spotlight on them. So they're making them work, work a lot. So it's, you know, it's hard work, but to different degrees. So here's what they say about middle kids. They are independent, diplomatic, agreeable.

[Gordon Keith]

Thank you. Oh, boy.

[Craig Miller]

People pleasers.

[Gordon Keith]

Thank you.

[Craig Miller]

Realistic.

[Gordon Keith]

Yes.

[Craig Miller]

A negotiator. Low self esteem.

[Gordon Keith]

Thank you.

[George Dunham]

Yes.

[Craig Miller]

Moderate risk takers. And they are peacemakers, especially within the family.

[George Dunham]

Gordo is such an unusual bird though, that he's not obviously going to fit all of these. But some of those you do fit. I would think with the middle one, there is a lot of individuality in there because you're kind of stuck in between. So you feel like you gotta do something to kind of turn down.

[Gordon Keith]

I felt like I was in no man's land in my family because it was not only that I had the older brother who was kind of good at everything, you know, sports and all that kind of stuff. But then my younger sibling was also a girl and that got, she got a lot of attention.

[Craig Miller]

A baby girl.

[Gordon Keith]

A baby girl, right. So she was the youngest and was the only girl of the Keith children. So she took up a lot of my mom's attention. You know, my mom was very happy to have a girl and all that.

[George Dunham]

Oh, sure.

[Gordon Keith]

So, yeah, I felt like I was a, a freelancer there in the middle, just kind of could do whatever I wanted to do. So, you know, when I go through this list, it just doesn't. I don't know, some of those don't ring very true to me because I was also a real troublemaker. So I don't know that I'd rank high on the agreeability scale. What were some of the other characteristics?

[Craig Miller]

Independent, People pleaser.

[Gordon Keith]

Independent, yes. People pleaser. That's an interesting one because I like to make people laugh. That was pleasing in some sense, but I wasn't. But I was also very disruptive to people too, so it wasn't pleasing to Them that way.

[Craig Miller]

Were you a peacemaker especially? It says within the family?

[Gordon Keith]

I think later on I would be. But I also disrupted the piece more than I actually made it.

[George Dunham]

You would start a conflict and then solve it?

[Gordo (nickname for Gordon Keith)]

Maybe.

[Gordon Keith]

Yeah. Maybe that's it.

[Craig Miller]

A negotiator?

[Gordon Keith]

I don't think so. I think I was pretty hard headed growing up and I don't know how I was when I was really young, so before I had consciousness. But yeah, middle school, high school, not a peacemaker, not a negotiator. Very hard headed, very much a troublemaker.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah. The trait that I was expecting to see on most of these lists for the middle child was they really act out attention seekers because they're, because they're

[Gordon Keith]

having to get attention. So then they become the class clown and stuff like that.

[Craig Miller]

And that trait made some lists, but not as many as I thought it would make.

[George Dunham]

I see. Thoughtful for the middle child. And I think you are that. Did you find just. I mean, you certainly are. Now were you like that growing up that you were thoughtful of your siblings or your friends or.

[Gordon Keith]

No, no, I think, I think that fits you.

[George Dunham]

Now.

[Gordon Keith]

That came in later. Yeah, yeah, that happened later when I realized what a monster I had been growing up.

[Craig Miller]

It is also to note that other than the firstborn, a lot of times the next born or the next born after that, their roles change every couple of years. You go from the second kid may go from the baby of the family getting a lot of attention to now the middle kid once the third kid is born. And so the changing roles can also impact. And you're probably too young to remember that where you were the baby.

[Gordon Keith]

Right. And I, I think that, that, I think that factors in a lot to why there's such variability in middle children.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah.

[Gordon Keith]

You know, because they, because at one point you were the youngest and so how long a period of time was that that you were the youngest?

[Craig Miller]

Right.

[Gordon Keith]

That makes a huge difference. But, but yeah. And then when the youngest came along, now I've had other people observe my family and they'd be like, you know, I'm surprised you're okay with the fact that. Because I was always used to, in my view or in other people's view, the older and the younger would get special treatment or get more attention and everything. And I never had a problem with it. Like I never thought about it. And they're like that just. You don't feel like you're short shift and now it just makes sense. That's the way it is. I mean she's the Only girl, so she's going to get this. And he's a responsible older one that's accomplished, so he's going to get, you know, this. And. And I just always never had a problem with any of the what could be seen as unfair, unequal treatment. It just felt natural to me.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Gordon Keith]

So I kind of got used to it.

[George Dunham]

My brother, who is the middle child of five, always claims that he was raised by wolves, that my parents never really could figure him out either. I see a lot of those similarities between my brother and you on that front. And he was, I always thought he was hilarious because he would just say something that made absolutely no sense of what we were talking about, but it would be very gordo like. And he would always say, well, I'm sorry, I was just raised by wolves, so what would I know? And I, I think he felt kind of lost in the shuffle of being in the middle of two older and two younger and especially a caboose like me that came along so much later.

[Gordon Keith]

Yeah. As a middle kid, you either you have to carve out your own identity because you don't have one, you're not the oldest and you're not the youngest. So what are you going to be that's going to make you special? Or maybe you're okay also with being a blend in the background type person, which is more of the type that you described, Junior. And reading down that list of middle child traits is the one that just kind of smooths over and patches things together and more of a backseat kind of middle kid. And I was the middle kid in the backseat who was pulling pranks on my mom driving in the front seat, you know, so I was always, I guess, screaming out for attention in that way. Sometimes just flat out screaming out. When it came to the scream laugher character that I did stop screaming. And they're all, it's my laugh mom. I'm a scream laugher.

[Craig Miller]

There are different middle kid positions as well. You could be kids two and three in a four kid family.

[Gordon Keith]

Yeah. It's the only one of these positions that has multiple positions.

[Craig Miller]

Right. Attached to it. Like George, you, your sisters were second and fourth.

[George Dunham]

Right.

[Craig Miller]

In the family. Did they exhibit middle kid traits like your middle brother who was right in the middle of things? Because they were also kind of middle kids.

[George Dunham]

They were, but for a very short time. You know, it just went by two year increments until I came along ten years later. Yeah, they did. You know, it's funny, as I look back, Rick was different, the middle one, because he kind of marched to his own beat, but the other ones were. I just. All. I saw him so similar in that I just adored all of them. And I. I came along so much later that it was like almost. I was almost like a play toy for my.

[Craig Miller]

Right.

[George Dunham]

My two sisters.

[Gordon Keith]

Your parents didn't plan you, did they?

[George Dunham]

I don't think so.

[Gordon Keith]

I think I'm going for a fifth.

[George Dunham]

Very much a surprise. Yeah.

[Gordon Keith]

Ten years later.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Gordon Keith]

How old was your mom when she

[George Dunham]

had you for the time? She was pretty old. She was 38. 38 to 39, I think, when she was pregnant with me. So, yeah. You know, for back then, that seemed. Oh, my gosh, that's really old to be having a child now. It's a big deal now, and we'll

[Craig Miller]

get to the characteristics of the baby, the last born child. But you're. You're almost a blend, probably because you grew up in a way, like the firstborn, because you had the house to yourself for such a long time. So you may not perfectly fit into all of these.

[George Dunham]

Right. Or sometimes I felt like an only child.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

Because they left the house. Everybody was in college by the time I was eight.

[Craig Miller]

Wow.

[George Dunham]

So, you know, they would come back at Christmas and in the summer. But I was like. It was almost like I went from being the baby, the center of attention, to where is everybody? And so, yeah, I'm kind of a combo, I think, of youngest and only child, which is probably why turned out so goofy.

[Gordon Keith]

But, boy, do parents parent that first one. So much different. And once you add kids, and by the time they got around to you, Giorgio, it had to be like, you know, hey, here's the. Here's the pantry, and there's stuff in the fridge.

[George Dunham]

That's what my siblings say, that you did not have the discipline that we did. And my dad was a U.S. marine, so it was a very disciplined household. But compared to my friends, whose dads were a lot younger than my dad, I grew up in a very strict household. And I said, man, I don't know what y' all are talking about, because I feel like I. I tried to walk a really straight line, but compared to them, I guess I really didn't.

[Gordon Keith]

So your dad still had the energy to have rules?

[George Dunham]

Oh, yeah. Yes, we had rules. But when I would tell some stories to my siblings, they go, oh, my gosh, you got to do that at that age. And I can't think of one offhand. Oh, like. Like, take the boat out when I was 14, by myself. You let him do that. Well, I'd grown up going out on the boat, watching them ski all my life. So, yeah, I could. I could do all that, but I think it kind of burned them up. Like, oh, my gosh, I would have loved to have done that when I was in high school. And they didn't get to do that, but I did.

[Gordon Keith]

It's funny, you go to a restaurant, you can always tell if the couple is sitting with a kid. You can always tell if this is their only kid, because not only is it the only one there at the table, which is the first tip off, but you know that they don't have other kids that are with the grandparents because you can see if the kid drops the pacifier on the floor, the pacifier gets sanitized and it gets put into a, you know, a chamber that has an ultrasonic cleaner in it and all that kind of stuff. And then that last kid, if they have three or four kids, it gets picked up right off the floor and gets put back in the kid's mouth.

[George Dunham]

We've always said that.

[Gordon Keith]

Just don't care about nothing.

[George Dunham]

We had our third. We would pick the dog hairs off of it and go, here you go.

[Gordon Keith]

Yeah, here you go. It's fine. You're good. We got some redundancy built in this family now. It's fine.

[George Dunham]

Meantime, I think we, with our firstborn, I think we boiled the pacifier every time, right?

[Craig Miller]

Yeah.

[Gordon Keith]

And that kind of care just does not go into third and fourth and fifth children.

[Craig Miller]

Not at all. Yeah. As we look at the traits of the youngest or last born child, one of the things they said about it was that the youngest doesn't get the same kind of reaction from the parents, not only when it comes to dropping a pacifier on the floor, but like when they walk for the first time or ride a bike for the first time. Because the parents have seen this a few times before.

[Gordon Keith]

We got it. We get it. It's good. Hey, congrats over there. Yeah.

[Advertisement Voice]

Good job.

[Craig Miller]

When the first kid does it, they throw a party.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Gordon Keith]

They got professional photographers filming the bike for the first time being written.

[Craig Miller]

When the fifth born does it, it's like, good job. Can you come over here and help me with this?

[George Dunham]

Right.

[Craig Miller]

But they also say that the. The last born generally gets much more lenient parenting. Kind of like you were talking about

[George Dunham]

what you did compared to them. I did.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah. What your siblings accused. All right, so here are the typical traits of a last born child. Outgoing, social, rebellious, spoiled.

[George Dunham]

Oh, yeah, I may have been.

[Gordon Keith]

That's true.

[Craig Miller]

I May have been carefree, an attention seeker, manipulative, that is.

[Gordon Keith]

I've always been searching for the word that describes you, George.

[Craig Miller]

A free thinker, a free spirit and a risk taker.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, I'm some of those. You know, it's interesting about, you know, being outgoing and social and I, I can still see these traits now. Some people see me as being very quiet, very shy and I really was, unless I was around my family. Then it was, hey, let's let George entertain everybody. And we've talked about that during the Howard Cosell impersonation or Keith Jackson or something and they got a big laugh, you know. But if I was around friends, I was always like, especially after you got it handed to you on the playground about how not funny you are. Oh gosh, when you do Howard Cosell or the bits that seem to go over really well at home. And I would be really shy until I got comfortable around people. And then I was a lot of fun to be around. And I'm still that way. I'm still. If I don't know you very well, I'm probably not going to be the life of the party. But I can be. Like I said, I am a definite hybrid because part of my upbringing seemed to be the only child. And one of those descriptions is creative. I'm not as creative as Gordo. He's incredibly left handed creative. But I spent a lot of time alone trying to entertain myself and. Yeah, you know, with a guitar or violin. Spent a lot of time trying to mess around with songs or imagination. And there was always a.

[Gordon Keith]

Did you have an imaginary friend?

[George Dunham]

No, I don't think I did either. Well, I did think I did. No, I had an imaginary dog and sometimes I would turn into the dog.

[Gordon Keith]

Wait, wait, what?

[George Dunham]

Named Ruffles.

[Craig Miller]

When I was. You would turn into the new George Floor.

[George Dunham]

I would be the dog. Oh, hey, rough.

[Craig Miller]

How are you?

[Gordon Keith]

No wonder he has such a strong reaction to pet play and all those

[George Dunham]

fetishes that I do not where people are.

[Gordon Keith]

Walked on a leash inside a Walmart.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, I don't get that. It was kind of cute when I was four, but now that we're adults, I don't get that. Why you want to act like a.

[Gordon Keith]

Well, you didn't name it very creatively.

[George Dunham]

No, it really wasn't. I was a little dog named Rob. Man, I'm counseling so bad. I just got so many issues.

[Gordon Keith]

Junes, you had an imaginary friend. What was his name?

[Craig Miller]

Well, I had a lot of imaginary friends because I had an entire basketball team that I grew up with.

[Gordon Keith]

That were fake.

[Craig Miller]

That were fake. I played Nerf basketball starting second grade when I got a Nerf hoop. And since I was born in Amarillo, I created a college. University of Amarillo Armadillos. And we were a national power in college basketball. But I had the same guys, and they were all my friends, John and Norm and Dan and Jack. And this was our basketball team. So when I would come home from school, I'm heading to the gym and I'm shooting around with these guys, and I'm laughing with them, and we're getting ready for a game, and then I play the game with them, and it's post game, and we're in the locker room together. So I had this whole. And I did that for years because after. Of course, I have to be stable when it comes to sports after three years. And back then, you could only play sophomore, junior, and senior year. Well, then I had to go pro. So all of us somehow ended up on the same pro team.

[Gordon Keith]

Oh, you were all immediately drafted by the same.

[Craig Miller]

By Amarillo, which got an NBA franchise because of the success of the college team.

[George Dunham]

Well, it's kind of like Drexler and Olajuwon, right?

[Craig Miller]

So, yeah, I had the same group of guys that were my imaginary teammates for five or six years as a kid.

[Gordon Keith]

Man, your childhood stories make me sad.

[Craig Miller]

They were so great.

[George Dunham]

I think that's good.

[Craig Miller]

I had a very happy.

[George Dunham]

I think that's very healthy. You and your fake friends, man, I told you about. And this is middle child who would do this again. The middle child that Gordo always thought there was something just a little off with. And he was really funny. He had imaginary friends, teammates, and he'd go out in the back patio and play, and sometimes we'd look out there and he'd just be laying on the concrete, and I thought he was really hurting. Are you okay? Yeah, I just got fouled. And he was milking it for the. Milking it for the crowd.

[Craig Miller]

That was me.

[Gordon Keith]

He played with Davis Rice and Russ

[George Dunham]

and Reese Rice and Russ. I can't believe you remember.

[Craig Miller]

I remember Reese Rice and Russ.

[George Dunham]

Reese Rice and Russ.

[Gordon Keith]

And Davis Cologne. Yeah, Davis Cologne.

[George Dunham]

Davis Cologne. And they always lost. That was the other thing. It was always. They'd get to the championship, and it was a heartbreaking law.

[Gordon Keith]

Why would you imagine that?

[George Dunham]

I took him to too many North Texas games. I guess he's just used to defeat after defeat. And, yeah, it was always just a heartbreaker. And then we'd have to sit through the post Game of which were really long, like. And then I went up like this and I got fouled and all these details.

[Gordon Keith]

Oh, he would tell you you would have to attend the post game presence.

[George Dunham]

Yes. We couldn't watch the game, but we would we somehow, whether we liked it or not, be a part of the post game press conference and just to hear about the entire game. Yeah.

[Craig Miller]

The names of my teammates, because I was not creative. I just took them from sports. Like, there was a pro basketball player named Norm Van Leer. So my best friend on the team was Norm Van Leer. And I just pretended he was Norm Van Leer's kid. The same name. Our guard, Jack. His name was Jack Landry. I just took Tom Landry's last name.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, logical.

[Craig Miller]

Our center was John Giannelli. That was the name of a Knicks center in the NBA. So I just stole that. My names weren't creative. I just stole them from pro sports and made them college kids.

[George Dunham]

But the fact that you had a media guide and everything, I mean, that was just incredible that you went through those.

[Craig Miller]

Broadcast scoreboard in my room.

[Gordon Keith]

So I think there's something here with Giorgio. See, I didn't know you before you had a kid.

[George Dunham]

That's right.

[Gordon Keith]

So it feels like. I almost don't know. What would Giorgio have been like in his natural state had he not? Because you had a kid young and that forced you to.

[George Dunham]

I was much more guarded.

[Gordon Keith]

I'm a different person.

[George Dunham]

I was.

[Gordon Keith]

Yes, because you had to be responsible. All of a sudden, you had to get a job and take things seriously. You couldn't quite be the youngest personality, like, could be in your family.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah, the George that I met in college. And I think this George started in high school when you got comfortable around your friends. Ticked a lot of these boxes. Outgoing, social, rebellious, carefree, free thinker, free spirit. I think you were a lot of those.

[George Dunham]

Yes, I was. That's why I loved you two so much.

[Gordon Keith]

The group me?

[George Dunham]

No. Well, yes, but the group you too, was. They were different. I got my hair cut differently going to college, and I'm starting to rebel. And. Yeah, man, we need to stand up for.

[Gordon Keith]

We're gonna fight the new sound, man.

[Craig Miller]

This is us.

[George Dunham]

And yeah, and then I quickly dropped that when I started having kids. It's like, oh, my gosh, I gotta make a living here. All that rebellion stuff doesn't sound as cool as it did a couple years ago.

[Gordon Keith]

Wearing sex pistol shirts quite as much anymore.

[George Dunham]

No, not as much.

[Craig Miller]

By the way, you said that you also felt like an only Child. I do have the traits of an only child. That's the fourth possibility in birth order. I guess there's a fifth with twins. I don't know how that works.

[Gordon Keith]

Yeah, I wanted to talk about that. Does that still count if you're twins, but you were born one minute earlier, Right?

[George Dunham]

Boy, maybe. I don't know.

[Gordon Keith]

No, there's no way that counts for anything.

[Craig Miller]

You just have two firstborns in the family. If all you had were twins, there's not a baby. Yeah, I'm not sure how that works.

[Gordon Keith]

And twins, they split a soul, right? They don't have their own soul.

[Craig Miller]

No.

[Gordon Keith]

How does it work, actually?

[Craig Miller]

Or sometimes one gets a soul and the other is soulless.

[Gordon Keith]

Oh, okay.

[Craig Miller]

That's how it works. But if you're an only child, you tend to. To show some of these traits. Perfectionists, conscientious, diligent, a leader. They say it's very similar to the firstborn list.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, I guess. Like I said, I'm such a combo. I don't really know what I am from being the youngest to an only child. It was such a split. But I've told you guys before on the podcast, I thought I was the luckiest kid in the world to be the youngest of five. I loved being part of. Of a big family. And it was tough when they left for college that, hey, where'd our big family go? And that's why, you know, Christmas and whatever it was, spring break or summer, when we were all together was just the best.

[Gordon Keith]

How did y'.

[George Dunham]

All.

[Gordon Keith]

I guess, did you take road trips with the family? Do you remember that?

[George Dunham]

Some. But, you know, they were all. It would be three of us, not all five, because someone would be off at college and. Yeah. And I always felt a little left out because they would tell stories of when they took, like, a trip to California. Maybe that's why I still want to take that trip from Texas to California, because they had all sorts of adventures.

[Gordon Keith]

They had a whole life before you.

[George Dunham]

Yes. And that was 10, you know, eight years before I was born when they did that. And I wasn't a part of that. I was a part of some trips that my two older siblings weren't a part of. So, yeah, I didn't get to take a lot of those. And if I did, I don't remember them because it was probably the first

[Gordon Keith]

three years of my life, and June's. Your sister is two years younger than you.

[Craig Miller]

Yep.

[Gordon Keith]

Right?

[Craig Miller]

Yep.

[Gordon Keith]

And then the Keith kids were all spaced out three years apart.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah. That's also another topic. What is the best amount of time between kids? I always heard like three or four years is best for the because it's a little chaotic if they're closer together. But I don't know if there's been studies on I'm sure there has been.

[Gordon Keith]

I bet you there's pluses and minuses to just like everything. There's no right answer. It's just whatever happens, there's downsides to being too close together and there's upsides to it.

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[Craig Miller]

You know one interesting thing I read about birth order and this obviously is only the case in some wealthy families, but that the birth order was dictated by the oldest knew they were getting the inheritance or the title or whatever it was and so that's why they were very well behaved and structured and it made me think of Prince William and Prince Harry. Prince William's very buttoned down. Prince Harry's really wheels off or had been for a lot of his life because that second child or third child in the inheritance line knows they're not getting the money or the Title of king or whatever. So they're just wheels off and they let it fly.

[Gordon Keith]

But that doesn't apply to, to King Charles and William, does it? Or what's his name? Andrew.

[Craig Miller]

Oh yeah. Was Andrew the older one?

[Gordon Keith]

No, no, no.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah, so it does apply, right?

[Gordon Keith]

Very much so. Went a little off.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah. Think about that. That's a great track. Yeah. I skipped down to the kids, William and Harry, but Charles and Andrew are another great example of that. And then I thought this was interesting. When it comes to athletics, being the firstborn is not good really that the best athletes from multi kid families are generally the second, third, fourth, fifth born because they have to compete with the older siblings. They have to compete with the older siblings.

[George Dunham]

Strength of schedule. Yeah. You're playing up a division from the very start.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah. So almost all in these families, take the Mannings for example. Cooper was the oldest but Peyton and Eli turned out great. And you know, I guess Cooper had the injury too, but he would have been, he would have been the best.

[George Dunham]

He was fast, but almost always the

[Craig Miller]

best athlete out of a family was a middle kid or a baby and very rarely the oldest kid.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, that's really interesting. And I, I see that with my two boys who are closest in age together from a very young age. My middle one, who did turn out to be our best athlete, played in college and is a coach now. I mean he was 2 years old and he's playing sandlot baseball with his brother who's you know, six or seven. And then one time we were short a player for my oldest team in little league baseball. So he would have been nine and we suited out Blake at five and we put him in right field. He did fine.

[Gordon Keith]

Really? Yeah, he's fine year olds.

[George Dunham]

And then mom said, you are not putting him at the plate. Why? He hits. He plays with these kids all the time. And he did. And I think, I don't know if he got a base hit but he didn't embarrass himself.

[Craig Miller]

It was great for him.

[George Dunham]

Yeah. We didn't have to forfeit the game and we played with a five year old right fielder

[Craig Miller]

and he ended up being a great athlete. He played college football.

[George Dunham]

Yeah. So got him ready for that. But it was interesting between those two. They were very competitive against each other

[Gordon Keith]

and they were close. Right. Two years.

[George Dunham]

No one was born in 87. Four years apart.

[Gordon Keith]

Oh, they're four years apart.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Gordon Keith]

And then your youngest is how.

[George Dunham]

And then he came along almost nine years later.

[Gordon Keith]

Geez. Boy, they're really spaced out.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Gordon Keith]

And they were competitive despite being four years apart. You would think that there would not be a competitive streak between those two.

[George Dunham]

Oh, but they were. Some of those basketball games went, the ones I wasn't involved in, and they played one on one. Yeah, those got pretty spirited. And then it was interesting, too, that I read that the first and third, especially if there's some time that the. The firstborn and the lastborn all of a sudden find that they have a lot in common. And I've seen that with our boys, that their. Their personalities are very much alike, even though they were separated by the most amount of time.

[Craig Miller]

That's interesting.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Craig Miller]

There's also the dynamic of the blended family, which, you know, you could be the oldest in your family, and then your parents get divorced and remarry, and now suddenly you're a middle kid. And that how that throws those older kids who were the kings of the castle or the kings of the kids, throws them for a loop because now they've got an older brother. Inherited an older brother or sister that runs, you know, rough shot over them.

[George Dunham]

That's got to be tough.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

It doesn't all work out like the Brady Bunch, but they had fights. What with, like, the Brady Bunch, a

[Gordon Keith]

hot Marsha being added to the family. Really, really throwing off the sister.

[George Dunham]

Now, you can't think like that, right?

[Craig Miller]

My sister had to be hard for those kids.

[Gordon Keith]

Well, what happens, like, if you're. Let's say that your parents are divorced and this is the Brady Bunch type situation, and your mom starts dating some guy who's a dad at the school who's also divorced, and Marsha is a girl that you were attracted to and you wanted to date, and now all of a sudden, she's your sister?

[George Dunham]

It's the second marriage wave off. You can't.

[Gordon Keith]

No, you cannot. What if. Okay, what if you are, Greg, and you're going out with Marcia, you got to break up, and then your parents meet because y' all are together and everything, and they met, you know.

[George Dunham]

Okay, we're trying to form a family here, so y' all can't make out.

[Craig Miller]

Now, that would be weird. Would that be.

[Gordon Keith]

You would have to break up in order for your parents to get married?

[George Dunham]

That's what I'd rule.

[Craig Miller]

Or would that be a deal breaker for the parents? Look, we can't pursue this because our kids are dating, right?

[George Dunham]

Yeah. Somebody's gonna have to break up me and the parents relationship.

[Gordon Keith]

But why should anyone be denied their soulmate off of that situation?

[Craig Miller]

Maybe they could have a double wedding.

[Gordon Keith]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

You can't have that going on and try to form a family. And it's this blended family that we're going to have now. We can't have Marcia and Craig.

[Gordon Keith]

Well, but I'm saying having make out sessions every night. Can't they be grandfathered in if they were together beforehand?

[George Dunham]

No. Like I said, they have to break up. Or the mom and dad have to break up.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah. At the dinner table with everyone you look over and and the brother and sister are making out. You can't have that dynamic.

[George Dunham]

What's wrong with you?

[Craig Miller]

For the other kids?

[Gordon Keith]

But then you're damning Greg and Marcia. They're always going to hate their new step parents because they were the ones that denied them the love of their life. And I think they're going to be still sneaking into each other's room at night.

[Craig Miller]

They might be.

[George Dunham]

I didn't think we'd.

[Gordon Keith]

And doing stuff.

[Craig Miller]

Those were the episodes we didn't see of the Brady Bunch.

[Gordon Keith]

That's in the director's cut.

[George Dunham]

Sink down to Brady Bunch makeout sessions.

[Craig Miller]

That's probably an indication that we should wrap up this edition of the Muser Podcast. That was a lot of fun though.

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[Craig Miller]

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[George Dunham]

It's free.

[Craig Miller]

Free and you will never miss an episode. Review us or rate us if you feel so inclined. And remember, our entire back catalog of now 33 episodes is always available thanks to our producer Peter Welton. And we'll see you next week on the Musers the Podcast.

[Podcast Announcer]

You can email the [e-mail] and we would really love to hear from people who have found the podcast but weren't already listeners to the radio show. We're curious to hear from you, so please let us hear your story. Thanks for listening as always. The Musers the Population podcast is a tired head production.

[Craig Miller]

Happy podcasting.

[George Dunham]

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[Jim Rome]

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[Craig Miller]

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[Craig Miller]

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[Jim Rome]

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