Cowboys Season Preview - Episode 11

Summary

The Musers The Podcast – Cowboys Season Preview (Episode 11)

Release Date: September 3, 2025
Hosts: George Dunham, Craig "Junior" Miller, Gordon Keith (in & out as "Fake Jerry")
Special Guest: Bob Sturm, Football Analyst (The Ticket, Dallas)
Topic: A wide-ranging, often hilarious yet incisive, preview of the Dallas Cowboys’ upcoming NFL season, with deep dives into Cowboys history, fan culture, organizational chaos, and why we all love football so much.

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Main Theme:

This episode gathers The Musers and first-ever podcast guest Bob Sturm (“Football Bob”) for a frank, funny, and, at times, philosophical Cowboys season preview. They dissect the team's historic underachievement, explore the cultural and financial phenomenon that is the Cowboys, discuss the role of Jerry Jones, and ruminate about what makes football so meaningful in American life. (Note: The recent Micah Parsons trade is not discussed as it broke after recording.)

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cowboys’ Perpetual Spotlight (02:42–06:54)

• Despite a 31-year championship drought, the Cowboys remain the NFL’s headline franchise, both on and off the field.
  • "Isn't it interesting that a team that... in its first 36 years went to five Super Bowls, won five titles... zero for the last 31 years, and yet they still are at the top of the discussion board..." – George (04:42)
• Bob notes the franchise “can’t stop getting eyeballs” and remains endlessly profitable: “They can't lose their spot on the top of the podium of, I guess, relevance, even though we're not even quite sure why.” (06:31)

2. Historic Droughts, Statistical Oddities, and Spoiled Fans (06:54–09:55)

• Craig offers a stark stat: from 1969–96, 31 playoff wins; from 1997–2024, only 4.
  • "That makes no sense." – Craig (07:33)
• Bob’s hopeful take: “They’re going to win it all at some point real soon. It just... can’t keep going like this forever.” (08:10)
• The sense of a “spoiled” Cowboys fan base and mounting fatalism: “I'm starting to think… I don't know if it's gonna happen while Jerry’s still alive.” – George (09:22)

3. The Jerry Jones Era: Profit, Power, and Underachievement (09:55–14:17)

• Analysis of Jerry’s influence—an Arkansas “family business” turned into the globe’s most valuable sports brand.

  • “The Cowboys not only are on top of them all, but they're building a lead every year financially… it defies all common sense that they can continue to underperform as a football franchise.” – Bob (11:40)

• Stark lack of faith in 2025’s team: “No one in this room has hope for this year, do they?” – George (12:16)

• “The level of hope is low... the idea they could win a Super Bowl this year does seem absurdly far-fetched.” – Bob (12:32)

4. Fan Psyche and Diminishing Hope (13:17–14:17, 16:47–17:33)

• Discussion of historically “downtrodden” franchises surpassing Dallas longevity-wise.
• Bob points out the local mood: “It’s a barren wasteland of just belief now… Nobody actually believes it anymore.” (14:13)
• George, on generational optimism: “We were so spoiled… it just doesn’t happen like that.” (17:05)

5. Jerry’s Legacy & The Owner/GM Dilemma (18:14–19:29)

• Debated: does Dallas’ return to glory require an ownership change—will Jerry ever live to see another championship?
• Parallels to Bill Wirtz/Chicago Blackhawks: “Almost immediately after he died, [they] turned into… a dynasty.” – Bob (19:29)

6. Cowboys as Global Phenomenon / The Never-ending 'Soap Opera' (23:52–26:51)

• Unique national (and global) appeal: TV networks prioritize Dallas games regardless of record.
  • “It’s not a sports story, it’s a ‘what’s going to happen next in this Cowboys soap opera’.” – Bob (25:08)
• Craig: “A testament to Jerry wanting to keep the soap opera… going 365 days a year.” (25:42)
• Business-school paradox: “Like having a restaurant that is horrible at making food… yet there is a line around the block… The worst they serve the food, the more customers show up.” – Bob (26:30)

7. The Chaos of the 90s and the Netflix ‘America’s Team’ Documentary (27:21–32:15)

• Re-examining the wild 1990s Cowboys: “...how desensitized you get to chaos if you live in chaos.” – Bob (28:29)
• Did the 90s Cowboys “underachieve”? Several agree: “One of the most accomplished… teams ever, and yet I feel like they underachieved.” – Bob (29:23)
• Discussion of Jerry v. Jimmy, the cost/benefit of unchecked egos, and the collapse of dynasty.

8. The Real Super Bowl: Profit or Trophies? (33:34–37:52)

• Is Jerry’s goal financial “Super Bowls” or Lombardis? Everyone agrees: he prioritizes influence and riches.
  • Bob’s hypothetical – “Fall to 11th on Forbes but win a Super Bowl… Do you take that deal?” – “No would not take that day.” (34:19–34:25)
• Jerry, per George: “He was right about… his manifest destiny… was… to run the league…” (34:38)

9. Organizational Culture: Acumen vs. Chaos (39:19–40:47)

• Contrasting Cowboys’ chaos with Eagles’ strategic professionalism.
  • “All of [Philadelphia’s] biggest contracts… are signed in March and April. Every single one of the Cowboys biggest contracts are signed… August and September, when I get around to it… [Jerry] chooses chaos.” – Bob (40:12)

10. Why We Love Football: Beauty, War, and Ritual (42:14–54:18)

• Sweeping, emotional discussion of football’s beauty and hold on American culture.
  • George: “To me, it was just this beautiful game of chess and... war at the same time…” (42:14)
  • Bob: “It does feel like a real live game of chess… I also love how it introduces nature… I love grass stains and mud and wind and pouring rain and snow…” (43:25)
• Craig, on the sport’s aesthetics: “I love the uniforms… decals, the jerseys… the biggest stadiums… sensory overload, and I loved it.” (47:30)
• NFL Films and childhood nostalgia, failed playing, and subsequent deeper appreciation for the game’s demands.
• The symbolism of teamwork and unsung heroes: “All 11 guys go into a successful play…” – Bob (50:11)
• The emotional power of “going to someone else’s place and taking a win out of there…” (51:32)

11. Football as Life’s Great Adventure (54:18–56:54)

• The hosts and Bob reminisce about broadcasting, covering, and loving the game even as “benchwarmers.”
  • “If you put on the Dallas Cowboy uniform one time, you are such a rare gem in this universe.” – Bob (55:25)
• Salute to players who barely make NFL rosters—“Most of them will get real jobs when they’re done playing football.” – Bob (55:41)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Cowboys’ relevance, despite futility:
  “They can't lose their spot on the top of the podium of, I guess, relevance, even though we're not even quite sure why.”
  —Bob Sturm, 06:31

• On fan disillusionment:
  “It’s a barren wasteland of just belief now… Nobody actually believes it anymore.”
  —Bob Sturm, 14:13

• On Jerry Jones’ priorities:
  “it's way easier to like digest this entire narrative if you simply come to the grips that Jerry Jones wins his Super Bowl every year. Yeah, like he does win every year because those profit sheets, those revenue... the Cowboys are at the top, not only in the NFL, but in worldwide sport. And that is his Super Bowl.”
  —Bob Sturm, 35:26

• Comedy High-point:
  A running “Fake Jerry” impression by Gordon/Keith, riffing on Jerry’s age, business, and even anatomy:
  “And I want a penis the size of Charles Haley. I tell you, that thing was impressive. In the shower, I mean, look like an elephant's trunk down there… Some things money can't buy, I suppose…”
  —“Fake Jerry,” 38:38–38:51

• On the nature of fandom and football’s hold:
  “It’s almost a different version of Star Wars as a young boy... this is fantasy land for me.”
  —Bob Sturm, 52:46

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:42–06:54: How the Cowboys became (and remain) America’s Team
• 07:33–09:55: Playoff wins drought, fan psychology, and existential pessimism
• 13:17–14:17: Fan suffering and loss of faith
• 23:52–26:51: Why the Cowboys remain prime-time and nation/world-obsessed
• 27:21–32:15: Revisiting the 1990s circus and ‘America’s Team’ docuseries
• 33:34–37:52: Is profit the real goal? Jerry’s “personal Super Bowls”
• 39:19–40:47: Organizational chaos and “choosing” noise over order
• 42:14–54:18: Love letters to football—the game’s grandeur, rituals, and unifying power
• 54:18–56:54: Remembering the struggle and glory of just making an NFL roster

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Tone & Language

The episode mixes analytical depth with wit, warmth, and irreverence—a combination that defines The Musers. Fans will recognize the blend of biting honesty about the Cowboys’ never-ending drama and drought, comic relief (especially in Keith’s “Fake Jerry”), and genuine appreciation for football as both spectacle and metaphor.

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Summary Takeaway

Whether you’re a diehard Cowboys fan, a football romantic, or just crave sharp, funny sports talk, this episode delivers a tour-de-force exploration of what makes Dallas so maddeningly captivating—and why, against all odds and in defiance of logic, we all keep tuning in for the next chapter.

Transcript

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[George Dunham]

So this week on the podcast, since it's football season, we thought we would talk about our favorite sport, football. And we brought in a guest, Bob Sturm from our station in Dallas, the Ticket. He's a big football dude. Let's talk Cowboys, NFL, why we love football so much. What could happen between the day we tape it and the day the Cowboys open the season? Well, Jerry trades Micah Parsons.

[Bob Sturm]

How about that?

[George Dunham]

So what you're going to hear today is a conversation with Bob about the Cowboys. And you'll hear a lot of background and context of maybe why Jerry made this deal. But you won't hear us specifically talk about the Micah deal. We'll do that on down the road. But as we have, I think, concluded, I don't know if it really changes our opinion of what the Cowboys were going to be this year anyway.

[Bob Sturm]

No.

[Craig Miller]

And it only adds to the Cowboys circus, which we all knew was a circus anyway. So as a season preview, we all still feel pretty much the same about the Cowboys. We just want you to know, going forward over the next hour or so of this podcast, the reason we're not talking about the mica trade is because the mica trade happened after we recorded this.

[George Dunham]

Yes.

[Craig Miller]

Jerry throwing a wrench in the works for us.

[George Dunham]

Yes. But we have another addition of how the cowboy world turns.

[Bob Sturm]

The Musers, the podcast, episode 11.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It's the Cowboys season preview.

[George Dunham]

Yes, it is episode 11 of the Musers the Podcast. I'm George Dunham.

[Craig Miller]

I'm Craig Miller.

[George Dunham]

Were you not doing it?

[Keith]

What's that?

[George Dunham]

Oh, wow, look, a special guest.

[Keith]

Yeah, I thought I'd sit in on this one since I understand it's a special Cowboys content.

[Craig Miller]

What have you done with Gordon, Keith?

[Keith]

He ain't here.

[George Dunham]

Okay, well, we'll try to find Gordo here on episode 11. And it is going to be something different here in episode 11. We've been talking about things we love, our passions in life, and we're going to continue that next week. We've heard from Craig, we've heard from Gordon. I'll tell you about the things that I love next week. But since the National Football League is starting this week. And even though they haven't been to an NFC championship game in 31 years, the Dallas Cowboys are still the talk of the NFL in a manner of speaking. We thought we would talk Cowboys NFL football season with one of our good football friends, Bob Sturm, who we work with at the Ticket in Dallas. He does the Evening show from 3 to 7, afternoon drive the Hard line. He's. He's football Bob. That's what we call him. And Bob Sturm is with us for a very special edition of the Musers the podcast. And starting next week, Bob is going to talk with us and give us some extra content as we weave our way through another football season. Good to have you, Bob.

[Bob Sturm]

It is so good to be here with my favorite, the podcast that I've ever heard.

[George Dunham]

Do you really believe, Bob, that he's listened to every episode?

[Keith]

I don't believe a word of that. And we're going to make sure that that young Jerry shows up as well as old Jerry.

[Bob Sturm]

Perfect.

[Craig Miller]

By the way. Congratulations, Bob. You are officially the first guest we've ever had on this podcast.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, incredibly unworthy.

[George Dunham]

How about that?

[Bob Sturm]

Why not? Okay. The question marks around the Western and Eastern hemisphere is stunning right now.

[Craig Miller]

And as George said, starting next week, we're going to produce a special edition of the Musers the podcast. It'll be a special weekly Cowboys edition outside of the regular flagship edition, which will drop still every Wednesday morning. George and Bob in particular will be hosting our Thursday edition of the Musers the podcast special Cowboys edition. That's going to be great. Dream come true to carry everybody through the football season.

[Keith]

It's going to be a big deal. And I predict that Bob Sturm's going to be worth five Heisman trophies.

[George Dunham]

We still have young Jerry. I'm so excited with us.

[Bob Sturm]

I'm going to put mini Muser on my business card. This is, this is quite an honor. So excited.

[George Dunham]

The NFL dominates the sports scene in this country. And I can't say around the world, Bob, because your other sport of football, I guess, dominates worldwide. But even though they haven't been relevant in terms of going to a Super bowl in 31 years, the Cowboys still dominate talk. And here we are again to start another season. And isn't it interesting that a team that in its first 36 years went to five Super Bowls, they won that. Well, they won five titles, they went to eight Super Bowls, 16 conference championship games, zero for the last 31 years, and yet they still are at the top of the discussion board across the NFL.

[Bob Sturm]

It makes no sense. I mean, when you look at it from that perspective, so much of it makes no sense, starting with the fact that the Cowboys kind of showed up as a franchise and against all the flagships of the NFL, began making their mark within, you know, just a few years, and worked their way up. Late 60s were dominant in the 70s. Just a, you know, from the NFC standpoint, but. But even the entire NFL, one play goes differently in one of those Steelers, Super Bowls, and, you know, they're. They're the team of the 70s. Then they repeat it in the 90s with a completely different cast of characters, and then just as quickly, they disappear into the night, and they've sort of become historically irrelevant for these 30 years, and yet they can't stop making money. They can't stop getting eyeballs, no matter what they try.

[Keith]

Love it. I love it, Bob.

[Bob Sturm]

They can't lose their spot on the top of the podium of, I guess, relevance, even though we're not even quite sure why. So they're an endlessly fascinating topic. And, yeah, we should probably thank them for. For solidifying a lot of our careers, because it just. It keeps going no matter what.

[Craig Miller]

I went back and dug this up, added it all up, and this is just. I can't even make sense of this. From 1969 to 1996, that's 28 seasons, the Cowboys won 31 playoff games. So that's more than one a season. From 1997 to 2024, last season, that would be the last 28 seasons, they won four playoff games, and that is with expanded NFL playoffs. So they went 28 years and won 31 playoff games, but the last 28 years, they've only won four. That makes no sense.

[Keith]

That's irrelevant.

[George Dunham]

And, you know, that money.

[Bob Sturm]

You know what all four of those wins have in common?

[Craig Miller]

They didn't ultimately get you to the.

[Bob Sturm]

NFC title game, their wild card round. Yeah, I mean, you know, not even a divisional win. They're not even a divisional win. They have yet to even win a final eight round, if you will, to make it to a Final Four. So it all defies mathematical probabilities, which is why I come back to something I feel like I repeat a lot just because I sense that so few people still believe, and that is, they're going to win. They're going to win it all at some point real soon. It's just. It can't keep going like this forever. The. The odds every year increase as hope and belief decreases that they will go all the way again. And it will happen with most of us witnessing. We just don't know when and how long they can continue to defy the odds.

[George Dunham]

And Cowboy fans are really spoiled. We grew up in the era where it was expected they were just going to win, and they did for 20 consecutive years, from 1966 to 1986. And just like Craig illustrated there with those numbers, and then, as I mentioned, the first 36 years, basically half of those years they were in the. At least the equivalent of the NFC title game. Used to be the NFL title game, right before the two leagues merged. And then nothing. And I got to tell you, I'm starting to think. I think we asked this question when we did our show from training camp. I don't know if it's going to happen while Jerry's still alive.

[Keith]

Sure as hell is.

[George Dunham]

I hate to break that to him, but I just. I'm starting to thinking after 31 years, you start thinking like that. No offense to Cleveland, but you start thinking like a Browns fan.

[Craig Miller]

I wonder about that, too. And to your point, Bob, you're right. At some point, they will win it all again. But how long did Red Sox fans have to wait?

[Bob Sturm]

Right?

[Craig Miller]

I mean, it. That may not mean that they're going to get it done in the next five or 10 years. That may mean, to George's point, I think that it might be 50 more years or 60 more years.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, it could. And that's what's interesting is in my head, I'm always running the numbers of just how many teams are there, how many. How many years are there? Okay, so everybody gets a turn every 32 years, let's say, right? That doesn't work out that way. But hypothetically, that should be how often everybody takes a turn. Then the Cowboys jam five into a small number of years. So now does it just have to normalize? But the thing about the Cowboys that continues to confuse everyone just with common sense is the resources, the intent, all of the things poured into is not a famine of, like, neglect. They didn't stop trying to farm this land. They're still trying with all their might to do the best they can with unlimited resources and every advantage. You know, and I realize the NFL does have caps to what you can spend on players, but. But it doesn't have caps on what you can spend on resources, on coaching staff, on scouting departments. I mean, you can literally take this financial advantage and build every. Every advantage as far as you possibly can. And for whatever reason, they don't. So you have gotta have some yacht money. They have Invested a lot in yachts and in stadiums and in artwork and in. And, you know, a practice facility that's worth more than most stadiums. I mean, there's just so many things to the Cowboys business that just does kind of go back to a family business, an Arkansas family business that is bigger than any sports brand literally on the planet, which encompasses so many sports and so many worldwide brands. And yet the Cowboys not only are on top of them all, but they're building a lead every year financially of value and of. Of revenues. And because of the cap, they can't spend it all back on the players. So it's actually pure profit, like hundreds of millions of dollars of profit every year. So it defies all. All common sense that they can continue to underperform as a football franchise.

[Craig Miller]

You don't have it.

[George Dunham]

No one in this room has hope for this year, do they? That they're going to. Outside of Jerry, outside. That they're going to end, say the NFC title streak or a Super bowl streak. They don't get back this year, do they?

[Bob Sturm]

I mean, the level of hope is. Is low. They've done a really nice job of lowering the bar in the last 12 to 18 months so they can exceed expectations. So that could be a happy season. Right. And yes, you can wander into a Final Four almost by accident. Enough teams have done it over the years. Heck, the Commanders did it last year. Out of nowhere, they end up in the final four. So that can be done. The idea that they could win a Super bowl this year does seem absurdly far fetched. But the really, it's. It's an actual low bar. The low bar of making a final four in a 32 team league should not be off the table for a team this challenging.

[George Dunham]

You're right.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah. And they've got the longest streak by a mile now in the NFC. Yes, by 10 years plus over the Bears, who have the next longest streak. I think it is.

[Bob Sturm]

I think that's right.

[Craig Miller]

Which is amazing. Yeah, it's amazing that franchises like the Panthers and the Saints and all these Cardinals, all these downtrodden franchises have been to the NFC title game way more recently than the Cowboys. Makes no sense.

[Bob Sturm]

And almost all of them Super Bowls as well, like they've actually attended a Super Bowl. And the Cowboys continue to defy those odds. And it's a different story every time. But I've never seen the market like this area. Their most loyal and geographically close fans lose hope like they have now. It's a barren wasteland of just belief. Now that they will win soon because nobody actually believes it anymore.

[George Dunham]

See, I think the super bowl drought will end this year for the Buffalo Bills. That's my super bowl pick. Okay, I don't know who you guys pick, but I think the Bills will finally get back to the super bowl and they will actually win the Super Bowl. It's not going to be the Cowboys. Well, it'll be an AFC team and I'll go with the Bills.

[Craig Miller]

But you're saying they beat the Cowboys in the Super Bowl.

[George Dunham]

What we saw in the 90s. No, I don't think the Cowboys will be there.

[Bob Sturm]

I think you guys are the best test market.

[Keith]

Let's see here.

[George Dunham]

Shit list.

[Keith]

George. Putting that one down right now.

[Bob Sturm]

Man. I think we just.

[George Dunham]

I don't want to be on that list.

[Bob Sturm]

I think we just had the podcast history here. I'm really excited about being witness to this.

[Craig Miller]

Only are you our first guest. You were present for our first cuss word.

[Bob Sturm]

Man, I am so excited. It's about time this thing gets a little spicier.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

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[George Dunham]

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[Bob Sturm]

You guys are a great test audience because you are the little boys with the lollies that grew up with Tom Landry and Roger Staubach.

[George Dunham]

Just Thinking it would never end.

[Bob Sturm]

And hope in your hearts and belief in your being that this is our year. Because every year is our year. We're Cowboy fans.

[George Dunham]

We were so spoiled. I mean, that's still, I think outside of what the Patriots did with Brady and Belichick, they go from 66 to 86 winning seasons, all those playoff games, all those Super Bowls, and then a drought in the late 80s, but then come back and win three out of four from 66 to 96. Cowboy fans were so incredibly spoiled. It just doesn't happen like that.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah. And you remember how crazy Cowboy fans went and the Dallas Fort Worth area went when they got back to the Super bowl that 92 season and won it. Can you imagine? Just say they were to get back this season. You think that celebration was insane. 30 years of pent up frustration to be let loose on the city streets if they were to finally ever get back to the Super Bowl. I couldn't imagine how crazy people will go, even though they've all lost faith. I think you're right, Bob. I think we're at an all time low for Cowboy fans optimism. But as soon as, you know, they start the season 10 and 2 or something like that, they'd all be right back on the train.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. And look, it's a dark path to wander down, but there's no doubt the lifespan of Jerry Jones is tied to all of this. And you say, I mean, I don't think he'll live to see the next championship. That's a very fair prediction.

[Craig Miller]

In fact, sorry about that, Jerry.

[Keith]

Yeah, what the hell you talking about? I'm young Jerry, right now.

[Bob Sturm]

In fact, you might tie it to the idea that it might launch a new era of success, which will be an absurdly weird feeling in all of us of how to handle the passing of one of the, if not the most significant sports figure in this area's history.

[Keith]

I'm trying to prop Stephen up to be my successor, but he still hadn't learned his ABCs yet. He didn't do his letters.

[Craig Miller]

But you're right, Bob, it may take that. And we kind of saw that in the NFL recently. This guy didn't die, but he was removed when Dan Snyder. An inept owner. Yeah, not that Jerry's an inept owner, he's an inept football manager. But Snyder was inept and it trickled down to football. Once he got out of the way, Washington got to the NFC title game almost immediately.

[Bob Sturm]

I think it's happened repeatedly in sports. You know, I grew up on the Chicago Blackhawks and their owner, Bill Wirtz, was seen as a. Well, he was called Dollar Bill Wertz because he was very frugal and did not allow the Blackhawks to even be on television. And so many things were backwards and old school from him. He died almost immediately. The Chicago Blackhawks turned into not only the heart of Chicago for several years, but a dynasty like they started. They had gone through a Stanley cup drought that had been, you know, a couple generations where nobody in the city cared about the local hockey team. And I realize hockey in Chicago and football in Dallas are two different animals, but I do think we're going to get to a spot where none of our kids ever saw the Cowboys. Good. And they're going to discover this for the first time, and it's going to be a lot like young Bob with a Packer team where he. I'm born in Wisconsin, and I was. I missed Lombardi. I missed Lombardi by about a decade.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

And so by the time I'm bad Packers. Until Farve got there, George, they were so bad, so hopeless, that I actually remember feeling good about eight and eight seasons. Like, when we finally got to eight and eight, it's like, we didn't lose this year.

[Keith]

Hey, eight and eight is still sellable to the fans.

[Bob Sturm]

We broke even. And then one year in 1989. So the only year the packers made the playoffs before I was legal drinking age was 1982 when there was a strike. And they only played about half the season. What, they played nine games?

[George Dunham]

Yeah, I believe so. They faced the Cowboys.

[Bob Sturm]

They came down to Texas Stadium and got rolled.

[Craig Miller]

But like the years Bart Starr was coaching.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes. Okay. Yeah. So. And for a while, we would hire Lombardi's players to be our coach, thinking that's the way out. It was just such a mess. But just imagine growing up somewhere loving a football team, and for the first 21 years of your life, they had never gone to the playoffs a single time in an actual season.

[George Dunham]

Wow.

[Bob Sturm]

Not once. And so you grow up so hopeless that any little reward, a wild card win, is such an occasion, such a happy thought and a dream that someday maybe we could win two playoff games in a year. Maybe they would actually show us on Monday Night Football. Maybe. You know, all these weird things that people here were born into as well. This is normal. We are the Cowboys. It was just the opposite for my childhood. So to kind of now see, it's not really flip, but. But go to a point where up there, Green Bay fans, are these entitled, annoying, spoiled fans of 11 wins is not enough for us. You know what's. Why don't we win more in the playoffs? And then it kind of flips. It might actually be my presence because wherever I go, the football team stinks, it seems. But. But now the Cowboys like the belief that the Cowboys could go 15 and two in the regular season and their fans would still be sarcastic and cynical.

[George Dunham]

Let's see what happens in January.

[Bob Sturm]

Full of impending doom in January that we're going to get. I've seen this before. We're about to be disappointed yet again. And so I'm really interested in just the fan mentality and culture of, like, belief or sarcasm or just whatever goes into the fan experience. I guess that's what sort of fascinates and fuels me, is just the way people respond as a community or a culture to. To what they really enjoy as a pastime.

[George Dunham]

I think it's a really hard sell to the younger generation of, hey, the Cowboys used to be good. It's going to be good again someday. And then you look at the stadium every week, it's full. It's not half full.

[Bob Sturm]

That's right.

[George Dunham]

Like it was in 89 when they went 1 in 15. It hasn't gotten that bad. It's like they've been just good enough to make you think, yeah, I'll be a season ticket holder even though it cost me dearly. I'll keep buying those tickets and in essence, keep buying into all this.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, it's not even just a local thing like the networks for years fight to get Cowboy games to their most treasured spots that will drive the most ratings. And it still works, and it makes.

[George Dunham]

Now, it still works on numbers, but.

[Bob Sturm]

It'S counter to everything in sports television because in sports television, in every sport, everybody fights over the teams that are contenders or champions for their best spots to get the best ratings. The Cowboys defy that logic because it really doesn't matter if the Cowboys are good or not, if the people are, you know, and obviously, if they get enough guys injured, it can be a stinker. But for the most part, they have to put the Cowboys at the highest spots because Dak Prescott is box office. Well, why is he box office? We're not sure, but, boy, people love watching him. They love watching Micah Parsons, they love watching Tony Romo, and they want to put them in all the top spots. And so that makes the Cowboys more viewed by everybody. And so it becomes a soap opera. It's not a sports story, it's a man. What's going to happen next in this Cowboys soap opera. And it's from sea to shining sea. It has nothing to do with just dfw somehow. Jerry Jones. And I'm not even sure he did it on purpose. It feels almost like a happy accident.

[Keith]

No, no, I did it on purpose.

[Bob Sturm]

I don't know. I think you fell into this one.

[Keith]

But whatever made the Dion deal, didn't I? It's all, yeah, like, Jesus joined the Beatles and dropped a Taylor Swift album. He's just a hit.

[Bob Sturm]

So whatever they do, people care. And it's 50 states. People care.

[Craig Miller]

Isn't that a testament to what Tom and Tex built in the beginning and then what Jerry and Jimmy took to a new level? And as much as he's hated in the Metroplex and around the country, a testament to Jerry wanting to keep the soap opera, as he said, 365 days a year, keep that going. The fact that you can have a team that hasn't done anything in the postseason for 30 years, yet they are still the most interesting team in the world. It has to do with going back to getting the label America's Team, and being glitz and glamour, and that sells. And it's just amazing. It's kept the interest level still at a fever pitch today.

[Bob Sturm]

But you can't teach it like, in a business school.

[Craig Miller]

No.

[Bob Sturm]

Because you're basically having a restaurant that is horrible at making food, horrible at memorable dining experiences, and yet there is a line around the block several times over, no matter what. In fact, honestly, the worst they serve the food, the more customers show up. They can't screw the business.

[George Dunham]

They show up just to talk about how bad the food is. They want to. And that is. That's really reflected in the Netflix series America's Team. The Gambler and his Cowboys, which has been huge, played huge around the world. There's so many things to take out of that. The results on the field were incredible in the 90s, but how about the soap opera that the Cowboys were in the 90s and have been ever since with that dude Jerry running things?

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. And honestly. And I've talked to a lot of you guys who lived here. So I was starting my career, but I was still from afar until I got here just in time for Michael Irvin to stab Everett McIver in the neck with a pair of scissors. So that was a highlight.

[Keith]

But loved it. I loved it.

[Bob Sturm]

But the rest of it, I'm. I'm, you know, in Virginia at the time, I guess, watching it unfold day to day because I'm covering one of their main rivals, or at least Washington hoped they were a main rival at the time, but, you know, they were.

[George Dunham]

Pretty good back then. Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

So what. What's fascinating about that is in talking to people that were living here and experiencing it day to day. And of course, you guys know that better than anybody. To watch it pushed together in a Netflix documentary kind of gets your mind working at. Holy heck. Not only did we forget some of the details, but to have it laid out almost like a photo album. You're. You're now aware of how desensitized you get to chaos if you live in chaos.

[George Dunham]

Right.

[Bob Sturm]

And how normalized the Jerry Jones flying circus has become to those of us who are too close to it. You almost need a little distance or this type of presentation as a historical time capsule to remind you how absolutely bonkers that time was.

[Craig Miller]

Yes.

[Bob Sturm]

And even now, being in the same city but moving a couple decades away from it, you look back and you're just like, that was. Even by our standards, that is crazy. And those were crazy people. And I said this the other day, and I don't know if you guys would push back on this, but it's like the 90s cowboys are one of the most accomplished, decorated, special football teams that ever existed. And yet I feel like they underachieved it.

[George Dunham]

Could have. Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

It's a little like Tiger Woods. Like, dude, you were so great, but also introduced so much chaos to your life and did not focus. Keep the main thing. The main thing that I think you left, like, five more titles on the table.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

And I feel like the Cowboys, the way it just imploded on itself with no sort of adult in the room, making sure everybody focused on the task at hand from. From, like, I don't want to say the minute Jimmy left, but at least after Super Bowl 30, it disintegrated so fast that you feel like those are lost years where you still had special, special talent and nobody really watching the store.

[Craig Miller]

That could have been five in a row.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes, absolutely.

[Craig Miller]

They could have won that. Certainly that first season with Barry, let's just assume Jimmy stayed that whole time.

[Bob Sturm]

Right.

[Keith]

Oh, God.

[Craig Miller]

They could have won those four, you know, through the Pittsburgh super bowl and then that next season, instead of everything falling apart, if. If they had held it together, that should have been the 95 season where they were barely holding it together, but they still won their fifth in a row.

[Bob Sturm]

That's right.

[Craig Miller]

They could have won five straight.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. I mean, you would start the 96 season without, you know, Michael Irvin being Suspended for the first five weeks and just barely eluding prison.

[George Dunham]

Look at the drafts of 94 and 95, too. Outside of Larry Allen, they didn't really acquire. There wasn't another Jimmy trade in there that maybe could have propelled him.

[Bob Sturm]

Right. And so to me, you leave. First of all, we should say, if you watch the documentary, you have to know that Jones and his family were paid $50 million by Netflix for the rights to this.

[George Dunham]

Right.

[Bob Sturm]

And therefore did it again.

[George Dunham]

He did it again.

[Bob Sturm]

He can't stop making money. But therefore, we have to be a little cynical at the voice and the perspective of things and how it's painted. That said, I think we all agree that Jimmie Johnson was probably a horrible tyrant and impossible to live with.

[Keith]

Agreed on that. And he also had a smile. Johnson, however.

[Bob Sturm]

I think the dynasty probably needed a tyrant to keep order and focus, worked and task at hand. And when he left, it was such a flying circus. First, Jerry was way more interested in a whistle and coaching shorts than he was and actually, you know, overseeing anything. Barry can't believe he's been called to run the most successful franchise in sports. Like, you sure. You sure you got the right number here? Right? And so, you know, he's thrust into it. He's given all of Jimmy's coaching staff.

[George Dunham]

It's just.

[Bob Sturm]

It's the biggest circus of all time. So they overachieved or at least achieved at the highest level ever, and then underachieved at the same time. And so that is a endlessly fascinating documentary that even though you should take it with a grain of salt on the he said, he said parts of it. I also think if you love sports on any level, you have to watch how great and how quickly Rome burns when a bunch of guys have success and kind of unchecked, you know?

[George Dunham]

And yet through all that and the downfall of the team on the field, regardless of what he was paid by Netflix, there are facts in there that he changed the way the NFL did business. Hey, let's talk to Fox. And let's not talk tens or hundreds of millions. Let's talk billions for rights fees, billion. And let's talk changing the way we do corporate sponsorship instead of this archaic way the NFL is doing it. Let's let these other. Let's let every franchise do their own regional deals, national deals, and that's why he is in the hall of Fame. And those are facts. Jerry changed the template for the NFL.

[Keith]

Hold on, let me take you off my shit list.

[Bob Sturm]

There's no doubt those are facts. I guess my Volley to Jerry if he wants to respond here, or it could just be rhetorical is what is the goal of all of this? And that's a great question. I suppose to a sports owner it's a clear answer that the goal is profit. Whereas young Bob Young Sports Encyclopedia carrying Bob will tell you the goal of football is to win titles.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah, I think every owner, their private goal is profit. Their public goal, they always say to win a Super Bowl.

[Bob Sturm]

Right. I said, right now you're going to fall to 11th on the Forbes list of most valuable franchises on the planet.

[Keith]

Unacceptable.

[Bob Sturm]

But you're going to win a Super bowl this year. Do you take that deal?

[Craig Miller]

He would not take that deal.

[George Dunham]

Would you?

[Keith]

No, would not take that day.

[Bob Sturm]

I agree.

[George Dunham]

It's about influence. And I'll tell you, this early episode I talked about the night I spent in New Orleans with Jerry that started somewhere around 11 o' clock and finished the next morning around 7 o'. Clock.

[Keith]

One of our good one was one.

[Bob Sturm]

Of our favorite stories.

[George Dunham]

One thing that I didn't mention at some point during the night, I don't know if it was after I sang Let It Be with the band or it was before we talked to Freezy. Somewhere in there we were talking about just that, about team success versus, you know, financial success. And I said, are you going to get back? Are you going to get the Cowboys back? And he said, oh, yeah, we're going to be back and I'm going to run this whole damn league. And I remember thinking, what a strange thing to say, but he took on the league, the league sues Jerry, he takes on and wins. He was right about that. That was his manifest destiny, was that he wanted to run the league the way he wasn't the commissioner, but. And yet he kind of was.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. And it's way easier to like digest this entire narrative if you simply come to the grips that Jerry Jones wins his super bowl every year. Yeah, like he does win every year because those profit sheets, those revenue, you know, lists of which NFL teams have made the most money and have made the biggest business empire, the Cowboys are at the top, not only in the NFL, but in worldwide sport. And that is his Super Bowl. And so honestly, when you watch a documentary like that, we watch it through the lens of why aren't they winning Super Bowls? Why are they sort of a joke in this league now? And we think, boy, that guy must have a lot of regrets about the wrong turns he's taken. And the answer is he doesn't have a single regret. Every decision he's made.

[George Dunham]

Don't you think he gets a lot of pats on the back from his fellow owners going, man, you've changed everything.

[Bob Sturm]

What's your secret, man? Help me. I'm trying to sort out this at my place. Jerry, if you could just give me some advice on how to be as successful as you. Yeah, every, every billionaire in the room is, is thinking Jerry Jones is the man. And when you, when your values are that. And maybe I'm the naive one thinking that anyone actually cares about trophies and sports besides us fans. But. But I would say that he sort of looks at all of this and sees nothing but good things because he is on top with the most money and he has built the most beautiful stadium and the TV networks bow to him and just everything. And he's like, yeah, got another trophy right here.

[Craig Miller]

I do think he's satisfied if they are good. I don't think he wants to be 5 and 12, but if they're around 500 and they're constantly the headline story on the ESPN talk shows and we're talking about him on the local radio shows, and I think that's his bar, just be good enough to where we're kind of in the conversation. And I think that coupled with him being the number one most valuable franchise in the world every year, I think he is just totally fine with that. Would he love to win another Super Bowl? Of course. But as long as they're relevant.

[Bob Sturm]

Right.

[Craig Miller]

That's number one for him.

[Bob Sturm]

And I think he probably believes that if I'm relevant long enough, someday my ship will come in. Just by accident.

[Craig Miller]

Yes.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. So we're going to keep having, you know, 15 foot putts and at some point one's accidentally going to go in. Right. So, I mean, there's actually some wisdom in that. But when we just say what is your main focus and what is your main motivation? You know, it's just this idea. No, no. Jerry wants to win. I think if he wanted to win, he would not purposely introduce chaos routinely to what he does. It's like he doesn't want to win. He wants to be the main character of the most interesting soap opera in sports. And true his actions.

[Keith]

And I want a penis the size of Charles Haley. I tell you, that thing was impressive. In the shower, I mean, look like an elephant's trunk down there. Some things look like his prehensile. He could pick up a peanut and feed it to his ass.

[Bob Sturm]

Some things money can't buy, I suppose, but it's, you know, it's wild. I did something about a month ago just where you go through like the Philadelphia Eagles are the world champs and they're probably going to win it again. You throw out your pick. I look at the Eagles and I say, that's the best team in the nfc. The four best teams in the AFC are all going to pound on each other and the Eagles might have the easiest path and they might also have the best team.

[George Dunham]

That's a good way to look at it.

[Bob Sturm]

I don't like the Eagles at all. I guess my childhood team and the team I cover for a living both can't stand the Eagles. So we unify in that. And I would just say, though, when comparing the Eagles to the Cowboys, if the goal is like football acumen on how to do this, how to chase this trophy, then I would always say, you know, I don't like them, but maybe we should start ripping off what they do. And what do they do? Well, a number of things. And I won't bore you with going down the entire list, but I do want to say this one's important. If you look at all of their biggest contracts, every single one of them, which are signed in different years, of course, but they're all signed in the same two months, March and April. Yes, every single one of them.

[George Dunham]

You can go something the Cowboys do not do.

[Bob Sturm]

And every single one of the Cowboys biggest contracts are signed when? August and September, when I get around to it. And why is that relevant? Because if you do it in August and September, I guess you maximize the NFL news cycle. But you also terrorize your own football operation with nonsense and noise and chaos. And you can't maybe have one without the other. And he chooses chaos.

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[Craig Miller]

There.

[George Dunham]

One thing we do have in common with Jerry is a love of football. I thought that would be interesting. Why do we love this game so much? Why does America live and die with this game? Jump off a pickup truck onto a card table and smash it with mustard and ketchup on it and paint your face. Cry when your team wins or cry when your team loses. To me, it goes back to a really early age, and it was from a very and maybe it was because I was a Cowboys fan and my team won and that helped. But to me it was just this beautiful game of, of chess and out in war at the same time, you know, power and outflanking your opponent. And it still looks that way to me when I see a play develop. Bob, you're really good at recognizing things of coverages and what makes a play work and all that. But from a very young age, to me, it was, it was important and it was beautiful.

[Keith]

What are coverages? I need to write this down. This sounds interesting.

[George Dunham]

I'll have Bob talk to you after the podcast.

[Bob Sturm]

I think you said it very well. It does remind us of, I guess, having little toy soldiers on our bed or on our kitchen table as boys and just seeing a group of men working together against another group of men. And maybe even you have some generals over there on headsets sort of deploying guys in a certain strategic way. And it does feel like a real live game of chess. And the more you study what one or two pieces are doing, the more they become fascinating. But now you're ignoring these guys over here. And what are they doing and why are these two guys fighting and just all of that? I think it does speak to us in some sort of. Some sort of subconscious way, and I love that. But I also love how it introduces nature. And that's why I'm a little sad that there's so many artificial environments now for football because I do love grass stains and mud and wind and pouring rain and snow and just all the things that football gives us that the other sports don't. The other sports are either inside or when it rains, we have to put our tarp out because we can't let our field get wet.

[George Dunham]

Right.

[Bob Sturm]

That isn't. That isn't life.

[George Dunham]

Did it add to those battles between the 49ers and Cowboys that were plated at Candlestick?

[Bob Sturm]

You're doggone right.

[George Dunham]

Played, played in the mud mat.

[Bob Sturm]

This isn't a field. What are we even playing on here? We're playing football, bro. That's what we're doing. And if you're not tough enough, well, we'll just go ahead and take this W and you can see yourself off or you can stand here and fight us. And that's, that's the nature of this thing. And so, yeah, it speaks to our bones. It speaks to. I mean, many of us, thankfully, have never had to spend any time on an actual battlefield. And we would never, you know, confuse fighting for a greater cause than just what we love about noon on Sunday. But man, is it a great way to pass the time as men or as Americans or however you want to say it, you know, just. Just the way we sort of wander into the minds of what that must be to have to go against a guy that big all afternoon and hold up what my team needs me to hold up so that we can accomplish our missions. Like, it's just. It's just the best. Yeah, football is so great. I love the other sports. I really do. But at its core, you know, just looking at that one moment, that one play that could determine everything. And now we're asking this guy who's never done it before to come in here and to like lead our guys to victory or we have to talk about this defeat. And those clowns who I work with who like that other team are going to be crowing about, you know, just football is so meaningful to me. And I also love the fact that I've been able to sort of make a career out of it and the fact that it's sort of become a year long obsession to so many people, because as soon as the season's over. Okay, now we got to learn 200, 300 guys for the draft, and we do it all over again. And just the circle never stops. So it's since we were boys to now the growth of this sport and the way it passed. Baseball in American culture is endlessly, endlessly interesting and where it stops. And so many people have, like, predicted the end of football or the fall of football or it's too violent or it's too, you know, enough people are turned off by this or that about the sport. And, man, all I see is this freight train. And maybe guys like Jerry Jones deserve a ton of credit. Or maybe it's just such an unbelievable sport that finally evolved to this level of entertainment that, that it was going to be there at some point anyway. I don't know. But, man, it's great to have football. It's so great to have football back.

[Craig Miller]

I'm glad you brought up the weather thing, because that's. When I was a kid, one of the first things that attracted me to football growing up in Oklahoma, when OU would play at Nebraska in November and it'd be really cold, and I just thought there was something so magical about that. Or being a young Cowboys fan, when they go to Minnesota and play at the old Met outside, it was just. No other sport did that like you said. And I also appreciated the beauty of the sport like you were talking about, George. I love the beauty of a perfectly executed play. I could, even as a kid running back, taking a pitch and hitting a seam and going 80 was just the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen. Or a deep ball hitting a receiver in stride. But also, I was initially drawn to the sport for the. What I thought was the other beauty aspect. I love the uniforms. I loved the helmet decals, and I love the colors and the jerseys and these pads they were wearing. And the markings on the field I thought were really cool. And the stadiums to me were beautiful. I used to build stadiums out of construction paper and cardboard in my bedroom. And I just thought everything that surrounded the game, the game itself was beautiful. But more than any of the other sports, baseball had some of that and basketball had some of that to me. But more than the other sports, football had this immense beauty going on in such a grand scale. The biggest stadiums of all the sports and the most players on the field of all the sports. And it was just sensory overload. And I loved it.

[George Dunham]

I was sold, I have to admit, by NFL films, too. It had a big impact on me. Just the slow motion, the music, the shots. Of sweat flying off of a helmet. It's just, oh, my gosh. And then I tried to play the game, and I was awful. I was so bad that why couldn't I be Randy White? Why couldn't I be Roger Stallback? You know? And I couldn't. But it gave me even a deeper appreciation for the game. And then when my kids played and they played high school football, something I didn't do past my freshman year, and I thought, man, I'd love to be out there right now.

[Bob Sturm]

Same.

[Craig Miller]

Experiencing that in a hot tub with my soulmate.

[George Dunham]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

We would have went state for sure.

[George Dunham]

If I would have stayed Atlanta, I think I would have been in the NFL.

[Keith]

Well, the most beautiful thing about football is turning $150 million into $14.2 billion.

[Bob Sturm]

I would have to agree that that probably is the game of beauty. No.

[Keith]

Beauty of the game.

[Craig Miller]

Congrats on that, by the way, Jerry.

[Keith]

Thank you so much. Do appreciate it.

[Bob Sturm]

The other thing, there's. There's a couple items that I want to point out about football that are just so beautiful. The. The fact that all 11 guys go into a successful play, and there are so many great plays in NFL history where we do think about the quarterback throwing it to the guy for the touchdown. And so maybe it's just those two guys in a lot of minds, but for me, you go back, and every time you watch a play, you see something different. And there's always that running back who doesn't see the guy who's about to just bury the quarterback and he's blitzing and you didn't see him at first, and you're doing your job and you're trying to offer protection, but now out of the corner of your eye, oh, my gosh, that guy broke through the lines, and he's about to ruin this play. And to watch a running back recognize at the last second and then do everything he can to get over there and just get a small piece of the blitzer to throw him off course and to free up the quarterback for that moment. Like, I. I can see those in my. In my moment, I just think about. That guy will never get a statistic. He'll never get probably even a mention in the newspaper, but without him, that play does not happen, and that championship does not happen. And so that there's so many of those moments in football history, and whether it's just your team or your game or just a game you happen upon on tv, those things happen on every single play. And then what Junior said was. Was Great. In terms of my memories and why I love this sport is when you mention going to play in someone else's stadium, there is nothing, and I mean nothing, more rewarding than going to someone else's place and taking a win out of there and going. Proving you can go to their city in front of their fans and their hostile environment. And it's just you guys. It's just you guys on the bus, and they're all throwing stuff at the bus and they're yelling at you as you run onto their field and you're the enemy and you're surrounded by a sea of color of that team and their belief that this is their day to beat you. And you're like. You wag your finger and you're like, no, not today. We're coming into your house and we're taking your stuff and we're leaving with the win. And those are such historically meaningful moments of, this is why we do this. We do it for each other.

[Craig Miller]

53 people defeating 80,000.

[Bob Sturm]

That's right. It's the best. And so, yeah, these are the things that fuel me and George. I've never played a down of real football in my life. I went to a school that didn't even play football. And so I've always been this observer and, yeah, maybe this wannabe. Yeah, absolutely. I'm a wannabe. If you could have told me I could play football for a living. Yes, of course. Of course. Those of us in the media are those who couldn't wear a jock very well. You know, it's just. But that maybe draws me even more to this magical land of football that, to me, it's almost a different version of Star wars as a young boy, sort of thing. Like, this is fantasy land for me. Yeah, yeah.

[George Dunham]

Well, you talked about the. That we've had early in radio just to make a living. I did Friday night high school football. Saturday I was doing North Texas football, and then Sunday covering the Cowboys. And I remember someone asking, man, you're working seven days a week. And I went, yeah, isn't it great? I'm around football. And it was really busy. And Craig and I did a lot of the same things early in our radio career and covering teams and doing extra games on a Friday or a Saturday night. But, man, I wouldn't have it any other way, looking back. And it's hard for me to do it my age now, but there are times where it's like, man, I'd love to be with the team for an entire season again. And just how that you know, starts and finishes. And what's the record? How did you get there? It's just the journey is incredible.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. And the friendships and the bonds and the unified experience you all go through. And then the further we get into this and the more years we do this, the more details that we haven't been looking at at times become interesting to us. Like, over this last decade or so, maybe last little while, I actually now find the singular player's journey to be something like how hard it is to make a football team at, like, the NFL level is so underappreciated by culture.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

I just think we are used to kind of making fun of benchwarmers because we were bench warmers, and that's. That's relatable to us. Is that. Okay, that guy never plays, so he must stink. No, he is a Dallas Cowboy. Okay. If you put on the Dallas Cowboy uniform one time, you are such a rare gem in this universe.

[Craig Miller]

Yes.

[Bob Sturm]

It is so hard to make an NFL team, even if you're making the league minimum and even if that money won't last you very long in the real world. Like, everybody thinks, oh, they're all so rich and famous. A few of them are. Yeah. Most of them aren't. Most of them will get real jobs when they're done playing football.

[Keith]

Like Taco Charlton. I think he did.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, I think he probably did. And it's just. It's. It's a. It's a universe where even to make the team or to to just be a small piece of this is impossible. And I think even those guys deserve our greatest respect. Even if they'll never help your fantasy football team, they are still. They are. So, I mean, think of their story like, they were the best football player they ever knew for most of their life, and then they get to the biggest of the big leagues, and they can just barely make a team like, one time.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Craig Miller]

Yeah. We've seen superstar college players cannot make the pros.

[Bob Sturm]

Right. It's so hard. And so, you know, just. And we have P1s who, you know, Kurt Peterson listens every day to our radio station. He's an old Cowboy offensive lineman, number 65, and now he just listens to our radio shows. And, you know, he's, I think, in banking or something like that. But. But I just think that's. That. That's fascinating to me that. That those guys are just part of this fraternity, that we can talk to them about what it was like. But. But, you know, they. They know the secret handshake that we'll never know.

[George Dunham]

Absolutely. Well, we love football season and we love Bob Sturm who joined us for episode 11 starting next week, the Musers the Cop the podcast special cowboys edition will drop on Thursdays. So Bob's going to be with us during the football season and maybe beyond to talk NFL cowboys, whatever hits our fancy. It's been awesome, Bob. Thanks.

[Bob Sturm]

This is a real pleasure, guys. And let me just remind everybody, someday they'll go all the way.

[George Dunham]

Will we see it Sunday? Will he see it?

[Bob Sturm]

I'm not sure about him.

[Keith]

Can I say one more thing before we go?

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Keith]

Jimmie Johnson's penis looked like a popcorn.

[George Dunham]

We got it. We got it. Thank you very much. Don't forget the Musers the podcast. Next Wednesday we continue our series of things we love, our passions in life. And it's my turn next Wednesday week. Thanks to Peter Welton, our producer, thanks to Bob Sturm. And we'll talk to you again next week on the Musers the podcast.

[Bob Sturm]

So yeah, lots more good content coming your way.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

So make sure you follow or subscribe wherever you're listening to make sure you.

[Bob Sturm]

Don'T miss any of it.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

You can also email the Musers at the Musers pod gmail dot com.

[Bob Sturm]

The Musers the podcast is a tired head production.

[Keith]

Young fake Jerry in here.

[George Dunham]

Well, listen to that. That's 40 year old Jerry.

[Keith]

That's right. We got socks and jocks and then.

[George Dunham]

Take helium out of that.

[Keith]

Then he starts talking a little bit more down here like this and then it eventually gets on down here like this.

[George Dunham]

You like fake Jerry, Bob?

[Bob Sturm]

I love fake Jerry. I had no idea he would be joining us. This really.

[Keith]

Who's Bob?

[George Dunham]

We're about to tell America who Bob.

[Craig Miller]

Is the world, not America.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, sure.

[George Dunham]

I think this was just going out to America because that's gonna America.

[Craig Miller]

That are Singapore listeners.

[George Dunham]

Oh, that's right. Forgot about Singapore.

[Craig Miller]

We have listeners around the globe.

[George Dunham]

I forgot about that.

[Keith]

Well, I don't give a fudge.

[George Dunham]

Okay, that ought to. That's pretty good.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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