Cowboys Weekly Edition (at Commanders)

Summary

The Musers The Podcast: Cowboys Weekly Edition (at Commanders)

Date: December 23, 2025
Hosts: George Dunham & Bob Sturm
Producer: Peter Welton

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Episode Overview

This week's Cowboys Weekly Edition arrives in the shadow of another dispiriting December for Dallas fans. George and Bob dissect a season that's painfully reminiscent of recent Cowboys history—early optimism dissolved by defensive collapses, offensive frustration, and widespread fan apathy. While the podcast leans into the bleakness of the present, the hosts also revisit the legendary 1975 Cowboys—50 years since the original Hail Mary—offering a nostalgic counterpoint to the current malaise.
*Tone: Honest, wryly self-aware, sometimes nostalgic, sometimes exhausted.

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1. Cowboys’ December Misery: “We’ve Seen This Movie Before”

[00:58–06:09]

• Opening Mood:
  George admits it’s hard to summon enthusiasm, echoing decades of Cowboys late-season disappointments.
  • “For the last 30 years these cowboy movies don't have good endings. They just don't.” (George Dunham, 00:19)
• Bob's Dad Wisdom:
  “According to my dad, my butt tired yet again now.” (Bob Sturm, 02:09)
  • Both describe the Chargers loss as the “culmination” of 30 years; December collapse is now a Cowboys tradition.
• Defensive Collapse:
  • The Cowboys are on pace for their third-worst defensive season ever, maybe historic lows, giving up 37 points per game this month.
  • “They are now within 19 points of the all time number of 473 points against.” (Bob Sturm, 03:59)
• Fan Apathy:
  Bob notes a growing “enough is enough” exhaustion among fans at the stadium.

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2. Anatomy of Collapse: Offense, Defense, and “Third Down Misery”

[06:09–25:50]

• Typical 2025 Lowlight:
  George spotlights Justin Herbert’s 33-yard scramble (on third-and-long) as emblematic of defensive breakdowns.
  • “If that wasn't this year's defense in a nutshell, in one play, I don't know what is.” (George Dunham, 07:14)
• Sack & Takeaway Drought:
  • Cowboys had a “00 game” (zero sacks, zero takeaways)—rare until the last few years but increasingly common now.
  • “From 21 to 23, they always had either a sack or a takeaway or both in every single game. Except one. Now they've done it five times since.” (Bob Sturm, 07:37)
• Offensive Paradox:
  • Historically, every Cowboys team with a top-5 offense made the playoffs—except this one.
  • “The first 18 were playoff teams. And the one exception is this one, the 2025 Cowboys.” (Bob Sturm, 11:01)
  • The offense started strong but “petered out.” Bob argues the defense sapped hope and opportunity.
• Point Differential Fail:
  • Despite scoring 424 points (which would lead other years), they’re still 30 points underwater on the year.
• Harbaugh Admiration:
  • Bob spotlights Charger coach Jim Harbaugh as “a great coach…everywhere he's gone, he has transformed that franchise.” (Bob Sturm, 14:16)
• Offensive Line Investment—And Disappointment:
  Bob: “No matter how many times we take a first rounder, we still get to the end of the season and say, man, maybe we should look at offensive line again in the draft.” (Bob Sturm, 19:28)

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3. Crunch-Time Performance: Red Zone and Third Downs

[23:53–25:50]

• Critical Stats:
  • In December, red-zone performance collapsed (4/11 in TDs) and third-down conversions fell to 33% (12/36).
• Running Game Drop-off:
  • Success rate has dropped; efficiency is missing; “feels broken.”
• Wasted Quarterback Play:
  • “You've wasted a whole season of premium quarterback play which reminds people of kind of what you did to Tony Romo's prime. And we're doing it again.” (Bob Sturm, 25:40)

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4. Thirty Years of Fan Apathy: “How Do You Interrupt Your Family Christmas?”

[26:36–32:45, 54:06–65:46]

• The Emotional Toll:
  • George and Bob touch on the emotional fatigue facing Cowboys fans born after the 1990s.
  • “How does he feel about this team? And is he does he feel anything at all?” (George, 26:47)
• Younger Generation’s Disaffection:
  • George questions whether a 10-year-old in 2025 even sees the Cowboys as relevant.
  • “Are they still into it? Does it still matter to the 10 year old like it did to me in 1975?” (George, 54:06)
• Apathy as Inheritance:
  • “I think the dad's becoming apathetic is passed down to the sons, probably.” (Bob, 55:17)
  • “So how do you get away from the apathy? Well, you need to believe that what they're doing makes sense and that it gives you hope. And I just think that we are to a point now where you could argue things feel pretty hopeless now.” (Bob, 56:14)
• The Jerry, Dak, and Parson Cycle:
  • Discussion of front office mismanagement, the endless cycle of defensive coordinator changes, and Micah Parsons contract drama.
• “Running in Circles”:
  • “They're not any closer to a Super bowl than they were a year ago or two years ago or three years ago…The worst place you can be as a sports fan, is believing that your team is not going anywhere except in a giant circle.” (Bob, 65:35)
• Christmas Melancholy:
  • “Santa's given up on the Cowboys.” (George, 66:03)
  • “There's a really good chance I won't be watching it live… I'm probably not going to take over the family Christmas up in Wisconsin by saying I've got to watch this game live.” (Bob, 67:09)

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5. 1975 Cowboys: The Original Hail Mary, Dirty Dozen, and Sustained Hope

[29:48–53:13]

• Nostalgic Storytelling:
  • George paints the drama of the 1975 Vikings playoff win, “the Hail Mary,” and how as a kid, the Cowboys “had me for life after that game.”
  • “I remember jumping up and down going, he caught it. They won, they won that. Can't believe this.” (George, 38:49)
• Bob’s Deep Dive:
  • The wild finish: Fourth-and-17, Pearson’s midfield catch, the infamous “kick” by a Minneapolis security guard, oranges and a whiskey bottle thrown from the crowd, Drew Pearson's improbable touchdown, and the chaos after.
  • “He pins the ball between his elbow and hip…If you watch this, it's mind-blowing, this historic moment you can actually still see.” (Bob, 35:09)
• NFL Folklore:
  • “It's like ground zero of the term Hail Mary.” (Bob, 36:20)
• Dirty Dozen Draft:
  • Recap of the incredible 1975 draft class that defined a generation and sustained success: Randy White, Thomas Henderson, Bob Bruenig, Pat Donovan, Herb Scott, among others.
• Why the Flex Defense Worked:
  • George summarizes: “It was designed to stop the run…another way of gap control to where you had the free runner and that was the middle linebacker, Leroy Jordan…” (George, 50:37)
• Landry’s Legacy:
  • Tom Landry as engineer, innovator, and stoic icon: “He oversaw everything….control freak in the most respectful way possible.” (Bob, 48:03)

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6. Where to Next? The Future and Tyler Smith at Left Tackle

[68:48–71:08]

• Season “Postmortem”:
  Bob: “Cowboys post mortem. And the season’s not even over yet.”
• Tyler Smith Debate:
  • Bob raises questions about shifting Smith to tackle; George is positive but uncertain if it's a move to buy into for 2026.
  • “I do think that he's a dominant guard, and I'm not sure he's a dominant tackle. So I don't know how smart it is…” (Bob, 69:47)
• Tongue-in-Cheek Viewing Motivation:
  • “If you need to convince your significant other that you must turn on Netflix at noon on Christmas day, just tell her or him that you have to evaluate Tyler Smith at left tackle.” (Bob, 70:42)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “I've almost given up…trying to translate Jerry. I don't even try anymore.” (George, 08:39)
• “You've wasted a whole season of premium quarterback play…And we're doing it again.” (Bob, 25:40)
• “Santa's given up on the Cowboys and I honestly can't blame him.” (George, 66:04)
• “The whole sports experience, the whole fan experience, is based on, I hope, I believe that the future is going to be fun. And I don't know that the Cowboys have that guy.” (Bob, 63:00)
• “Bradsham once said, it would be funny if it wasn't sad. And that's. That's kind of where we are at the end of the 2025 season.” (George, 68:43)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Sad Cowboys December, Defensive Collapse: [00:58–06:09]
• 1975 Cowboys Hail Mary/Nostalgia: [29:48–53:13]
• Critical Stats (Red Zone/3rd Down): [23:53–25:50]
• Long-term Apathy, Fan Discussion: [54:06–65:46]
• Tyler Smith at Tackle Debate: [68:48–71:08]

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Summary:

This episode is a wistful, sometimes mournful reflection on another “lost” Cowboys season, blending present malaise with stories of glory days. For longtime fans, it’s a familiar script—promise, excitement, heartbreak, and, ultimately, resignation. George and Bob find small comfort in nostalgia but struggle to offer hope for the future, except perhaps in young players and distant memories. Even Santa, they note, has vacated Cowboys country this year.

Transcript

[George Dunham]

It's a special Christmas edition of Thursday Night Football and it's only on Prime Video. This week, the Denver Broncos take on the Kansas City Chiefs on Christmas night. Cap off your holiday with an old school rivalry. Coverage begins at 7:30pm Eastern with Football's Best Party TNF Tonight presented by Verizon. Not a Prime member, Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial. If you it's the Broncos and Chiefs Thursday at 7:30pm Eastern only on Prime Video. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details. It's the Muser is the podcast Cowboys edition Football Friends, George Dunham, Bob Sturm and I'm trying to have enthusiasm in my voice, Bob, but you know, for the last 30 years these cowboy movies don't have good endings. They just don't. The good guys used to win growing up. And we'll Talk about the 75 team today on the episode because back in the day of 20 consecutive winning seasons and NFC title games, after NFC title games and super bowl appearances and super bowl wins, we didn't have this many sad endings. And the season's not over yet. There's still two more games to be played, one of them on Christmas Day. That's the game that's coming up this week, Yahoodi against the Washington Commanders. But it was a pretty sad weekend for the Cowboys officially eliminated on Sunday with the Washington win or I'm sorry, the Philadelphia win over Washington and then just more misery on Sunday afternoon in Chargers 34, Cowboys 17. And I know I've said this before on this podcast, we've seen this movie before in Doc Gone. If we hadn't seen it all year long.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, yeah. It's a. If I may, if I may draw from last week's episode at the very end, I will get it out here early on this game made according to my dad, my butt tired yet again now. I mean this is just, this was a classic game, Georgie, where it kind of felt like 30 years came to a head all at the same time because there were a lot of crowd shots, there were a lot of visible facial reactions to the game and as it followed the script almost to a tee, especially the 2025 script, and it just, it just felt like a culmination of it all to where everybody had a little bit too much of that and they just feels like everybody just needs a little time away now from the Cowboys. That that was like enough is enough. Um, it's the home finale. It was apathetic. The crowd felt like they had been duped into a little false hope again. But you know, to be fair, when they got to the stadium, they kind of knew they were cooked. But that game itself where you can't stop scoring in the first half and then in the second half the opponent keeps scoring and your offense can't answer the bell because the defense has put too much on them all season. And it would be disingenuous to just blame the defense in this one because the offense can't stop scoring routine these last two games. Right. It's the same thing.

[George Dunham]

Where do beans in the second half.

[Bob Sturm]

Nothing in the second half of either of these last two games. And, and then the defense, I don't know, it just, it just feels like it's collapsed on top of itself. And so the defense has a chance at immortality. George, I don't know if you realize just how bad the scoring defense has been, but they are now within 19 points of the all time number of 473 points against. They're at 454 right now. So they now are third worst in Cowboys defensive history. The two in front of them, 2020.

[George Dunham]

And 2024 and franchise first year maybe. No.

[Bob Sturm]

Was it okay, 2020 and 2024.

[George Dunham]

Okay, gotcha.

[Bob Sturm]

Because. Because you can't, you can't get there in 1960 with a 12 game season.

[George Dunham]

No, you can't. It's too many. Yeah. Too few.

[Bob Sturm]

So. So 2020 is the worst ever at 4:73. A 16 game season. So. So to beat the 16 game mark, you're going to have to give up 20 points to Washington on Christmas day. And then if you want to do the per game number, you got to somehow give up. I think it is 49 points in the final two weeks. So 24 and a half points a game to Washington and New York and then you'll get to 503. And I think if you prorated 2020-17 games, you would be at like 502. So. So there's histories in the cards. Honestly, I realize Washington and New York aren't scoring much, but we're only talking about 24, 25 points each. And the Cowboys don't keep anybody under 30 these days. They've given up 37 a game in the month of December. And I think the only offense that might have scared you going into any of those games was pretty probably the Lions. And so, you know, it's bad. It's really bad. And then, you know, it just, it felt helpless. It felt like the Chargers were going to score every time they had the ball and it felt like the Cowboys just, I don't know, run out of gas. It's just, it's just more of the same, George.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, it really is. And there were so many plays that were just so typical of this 2025 defense. I think my play of the game that really describes this season, Cowboys had fallen behind. It's a seven point game. Yes, it is. Third quarter. So you're, you're hanging in there. You got a chance. And once again, you get the Chargers at third and long. And here we go with third down defense again. LA was 7 of 11 on third down. And this is third and long. And Herbert escapes who Kenneth Murray is wide ass open on a blitz. All you got to do, slow down. Yeah, okay. Herbert's not, you know, the most elusive quarterback. He's. I like Herbert. I think he's really good. Yeah, but he gets by him. And he runs for 33 yards in a first. If that wasn't this year's defense in a nutshell, in one play, I don't, I don't know what what is.

[Bob Sturm]

There's no doubt. And really what kills you is the Chargers give up so many sacks. So many sacks. And of course, the Cowboys had the dreaded 00 game, which is zero sacks, zero takeaways. And they've done that twice this year. They did it twice last year, and then the entire time Dan Quinn was here, they did not do it for a single regular season game. So they, from 21 to 23, they always had either a sack or a takeaway or both in every single game. Except one. Except one. His last game against Green Bay in that playoff, that was the first 00 game. Now they've done it five times since. And so in Cowboys history, it almost never has happened where they had no sacks and no takeaways. And now it's happened again. You feel bad for Matt Eberfluss because it does feel like he's already been fired. I could be wrong. I don't think I am, especially given what Jerry was talking about after the game. But honestly, trying to totally understand what he's saying all the time is an exercise and run.

[George Dunham]

I've almost given up. And trying to translate Jerry. I don't even. Yeah, almost don't even try anymore. By the way, I have an inside scoop on why Eber Fluss was moved up to the coaches booth.

[Bob Sturm]

Oh, please, please tell.

[George Dunham]

Apparently Brian Schottenheimer wanted him to see how miserable that it is to be a Cowboys fan. And just watch this from, from the.

[Bob Sturm]

Upper deck See, I thought I might be. Be set up there, but. But I didn't know for sure. And. And, and yes, I was being set up for. For a fantastic line delivery. So. So since Super Bowl 1, Georgie.

[George Dunham]

Okay.

[Bob Sturm]

There have been 19 seasons.

[George Dunham]

Saw, this is a great stat. This, this tells the story also of this year.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. Where the Cowboys have had a top five offense in both points and yards. So sometimes you can be one or the other. But 19 times in 60 Super bowl seasons, the Cowboys have been both top five. That's very, very good. That. That probably should be considered elite, which we throw around that term quite a bit. There were actually a couple years where the cowbo. 1 1. Well, 772 years, they were 1 1. 1966, they were 1 in points and 1 in yards. And 2021, they were 1 in points and one in yards. Wow. And scored 530 points in 2021. Anyway, of those 19 seasons, they won five Super Bowls. Every one of those super bowl champions was a top five in points and yards. Offensively, every one of them. Isn't that something? They also went to countless conference championship games. Let's see, 1966, 1973, 1982. They lost the Super bowl in 1978 with a number one offense in points, number two in yards. Of all of those 19 teams, the first 18 were playoff teams. And the one exception is this one, the 2025 Cowboys.

[George Dunham]

That's good work, Bob. I saw that this week, and that's really good work. And, and I think validates what you, you and I have both been saying all year long. Hey, this offense, this is pretty unique here. This is pretty good. You guys are such homers. Yeah, I want you, you know, just pump up Dak a little more. Pump his tires. No, this is real now. The offense slowed down. I think that's an interesting discussion, too, that we can have about, oh, yeah, how this offense just kind of petered out as the season went on. But I think some of that is. I'm going to put it back on the defense and they got fewer opportunities and I think hope eventually died with this team that, you know, you're trying to be spectacular. And that goes for players and coaches. But no, to my original point, great work because that shows just how good this offense was and how historically bad this ridiculous defense was.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. And you can look at point differential as well in those years, and it's. It's colossal. So, you know, for instance, in 1968, they were 12 and 2. They scored 431 points, but they only allowed 186. So they were plus 245. So in a 14 game season, they're plus 245 points, which means on average they averaged about 15 points per game more than their opponent. So that's the type of point differential you get in 1968. In almost all of these, they're well over 100 to 150 and sometimes 200 points more than their opponent, the 2025 Cowboys. Again, just to make sure we're all on the same page, they have scored 424 points this season, which would set league highs most years in the NFL. This year, 424 points is still 30 less than your opponents have scored on you. And so you know you're top five in both and your defense has, has canceled it all out by being just that bad. And this one was another one of those cases where, you know, they're. First of all, they're going up against a really good defense. The Chargers are a really good team. I could do all sorts of time on my admiration for Jim Harbaugh. I think he is a great coach. Not a good coach, but a great coach. And the reason I say so, George, as I'm sure you're well aware, everywhere he's gone, he has transformed that franchise or program almost immediately.

[George Dunham]

Even the University of San Diego, not San Diego State. That's right, the University of San Diego, which, by the way, almost landed him in Denton, Texas. Really, when they hired Todd Dodge, Jim Harbaugh was a finalist. And I think they kind of went in a different direction because they didn't think they could afford him, which.

[Bob Sturm]

Wow.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, well side there.

[Bob Sturm]

He's always been well compensated. But man, when you talk about what he did at San Diego, then what he did at Stanford, then what he did for the 49ers. And by the way, every one of these he took over was in a real, real pickle at.

[George Dunham]

The 49ers were terrible when he got terrible.

[Bob Sturm]

That was Mike Nolan, by the way, and I guess Mike Singletary was right there as well. And he made the 49ers a big bad team of bullies. They were great at running the ball, great at stopping the run, great at getting to your quarterback, great at fundamentally sound win the turnover battle, grind you into a fine powder. Jim Harbaugh, then he went to Michigan. Of course, it took a little longer there, but before long they win a national title. Might have broken some rules along the way, but we're winning a ton. And then he goes to the Chargers and they don't go to back to back playoffs in San Diego, Los Angeles as the Chargers. They don't. And now they are. And it does not shock me that that's one of the more powerful teams in the afc. I honestly, when I started here in Michigan and Harbaugh had about run its course, man, I just thought, you know, if I'm Chicago, if I'm the Bears, that's who I'm going to get because he's one of us, he's a Ditka guy and you can see the Ditka DNA in him and you know, whatever. I mean, obviously Chicago's doing okay now, but I never imagined he'd be interested in a job in Los Angeles. I have no idea. But anyway, the point to all this is the Cowboys were really sharp on Sunday offensively when the game started and, and the first three drives were fantastic and they got to 17 points right away. They had the lead, they had the stadium jumping a little bit. And much like the Minnesota game, it feels like the opponent has an initial idea and then Dak sort of chases them out of it with Pickens and cd but then that next adjustment that the defense makes, which is, you know, we're going to really make it difficult for these two wide receivers to ruin our day and then we're going to challenge you to run into some favorable fronts and see if you can out physical us at the point of attack. And I just feel like as the season's gone along, the Cowboys have been a little less impressive each month at how well they protect and how well they, they carve up yards on the ground and, and you know, just that those success rates fall and now you get to critical third downs and things get tough. So I don't want to make an excuse for the offense because again they're top five in both those categories. But at the same time we can't act like these two games didn't happen and these two games did happen to where the Cowboys did not do enough offensively in the second half of these critical home games where what they scored, I guess nine second half points, all field goals against the Vikings and zero second half points against the Chargers. Now they were doing much better in the second half, you know, back when they put 17 on Philadelphia and 14 on the Chiefs and 21 against the Lions. The Lions, they got killed in the first half. So it's just, I guess what we say, 60 minutes of football has been missing.

[George Dunham]

Do you think as we talk about why the offense has petered out this Year I. This is just an anecdotal theory. Do you think looking back at games like the jets and that certainly helped how bad the jets are the first Philly game, which I know you didn't win, but I was really encouraged by that game. Do you think Shoddy Dak maybe to appease the two Sports Car wide receivers, do you think they almost got too impatient, like, okay, here we go, we're going to go here, we're going to do this, we're going to do that and we're going to try to score 35 versus let's go quick passing game. And okay, if they're taking it away, what we're trying to do with especially on the outside, we'll take four yards, we'll take three yards and almost become the NFL version of army because the defense is so bad. You follow me here? Is that, is that crazy or is that let's control the ball and let's try to, you know, maybe one or two, one or two stops by our defense, a half may be enough if we are limiting the opportunities for our opponent. And it's easier said than done. I know because you're going to mix in some three and outs there if you're playing very conservatively. But back to the other thing about what's wrong with the offense. This offensive line's not good enough yet. It's just not.

[Bob Sturm]

Still, no matter how many times we take a first rounder, we still get to the end of the season and say, man, maybe we should look at offensive line again in the draft. Like this team, this organization is so over invested in the offensive line to a point where it's got to be at the top of the league. There cannot be a team in this league that cumulatively has spent as much on their starting offensive line from a draft capital position as the Cowboys. I know Terrence Steele was quite a find as a undrafted free agent rookie back in that 2020 season out of Texas Tech. Otherwise, first rounder, first rounder, third rounder and first rounder. And you know, now with all the talk about Tyler Smith moving out to tackle and you would imagine Tyler Guyton flipping over to right tackle and probably cutting Terence Steele because his number is going to be such that the Cowboys will immediately try to get away from that if history is our guide. You know, they just, they really want to recreate Tyron, Travis Frederick and Zach Martin or heck, Maybe in the 90s great wall of Dallas as it's become known over time. And you know, I get it. I get the idea that that's how you want to play. But then I look back at like the game at Philadelphia to start the season and yesterday or Sunday's game against the Chargers, both of them had something in common, George. And that is the opponent only had three possessions in the first half. And so if we're going to ball control, the idea is to shorten the game with fewer possessions. The Chargers didn't have any yesterday. No, but they did have, I guess seven or eight possessions. And so you did you, you know, just so people know, the average number of possessions per team in the NFL is usually somewhere around 11 or 12. And so, you know, in the course of a game, you'll probably get the ball about five and a half, six times per half. So it's, it becomes a math game. Okay. We, if we take care of our third downs, if we score in the red zone, we should be able to get to 28 points. And this is just, you know, it, it speeds up or slows down as years go by and decades and things change in the game. And they stop the clock now and first downs in college and. No, they don't. And now it's stopping out of bounds. So we try to keep the game in that three hour TV window. I know I'm giving you way too much information here, but the point is, if we shorten the game, we don't shorten the 60 minutes, we shorten the number of possessions each team gets. Yeah. And if the Chargers are still going to score almost 40 points in just eight or nine possessions, that's really demoralizing because there is a metric in the league that is points per possession is how a lot of teams now try to calculate it. And as you know, you know, nine drives and 34 points is awful. You know, you try to, you try to have that number less than a field goal and that number is like four points per possession. Just like the Eagles on opening night, I think they only had three possessions in the first half and they had 21 points. The Chargers had three possessions in the first half. They have 21 points. So now what the game comes down to is your efficiency in critical situations. Right. And those are always going to be third downs and red zone. And can we take care of it? Well, here's what the Cowboys offense is up against. When they are cashing those, they're fine. And we saw that against Green Bay, we saw that against the jets, we saw that against Washington. We saw that a lot of times this year where they killed it on third down. They're over 50% and they're up at 75, 80% in the red zone. Against Green Bay, they went four out of five in the red zone. The 80%. That's awesome. They went 60% three out of five against the Raiders and the Eagles coming out of the bye week. So three touchdowns and five chances. Okay, we can live with that. What's happened here in December is the Cowboys red zone offense has gone 4 for 11. Okay. And that's not going to cut.

[George Dunham]

No.

[Bob Sturm]

You've got to get touchdowns and on third downs they, it's gone even worse. Third downs they have gone 12 of 36. So we're down 33% on third downs. Not gonna cut it. And so you know the supply lines of these critical situations where you're always in third down is, is, is a problem. And then you flip it around to, okay, were you able to put the Chargers in third down? Well, not really. And when you were, they went seven of 11. They're cashing at 64%. You're cashing at 36%. That's never going to work. And so, you know, that's the deal is you can't even get them in third down. That was that drive in the second quarter. They're not in third down the whole time. And you know, it's just, you can't, you can't win that way. You're right. It's the offensive line, it's a running game. We've seen the success rate in your runs drop. I, I don't know, man. It just, it feels broken. And the worst part about it is it feels broken. While you've had a healthy, high performing quarterback almost throughout and yesterday, you know, Sunday was a great game for Dak throwing the ball. He had, I think three big time throws according to Pff. And, and that is a, that's a high number. I mean he's, he's had a good season, but the big time throws have fallen off. He had one, One of his big time throws was called back on that Tyler Smith hold.

[George Dunham]

Yeah. If you look at that, if you.

[Bob Sturm]

Look at that from the end zone. Copy that. Is an all world play by your quarterback.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, but you've wasted it.

[Bob Sturm]

You've wasted a whole season of premium quarterback play which reminds people of kind of what you did to Tony Romo's prime. And we're doing it again.

[George Dunham]

All right. More of the same as the Cowboys now drop to six, eight and one. The eight, eight and one is still possible, Bob. Eight, Nate. Yeah, and so many people tried to shoehorn that as their record going into 25. But you couldn't do it with 17 games you knew they would tie and who knew they would tie? Micah Parsons and the Green Bay Packers. What a crazy year. It's bad. There's two games left and we'll talk more about it towards the end of the podcast about what's ahead. And and also the toll of 30 years on the Cowboys fan. You were talking about seeing the faces of Cowboy fans around the stadium.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

And we started here at the beginning of the season. About what about the 25 year old, 30 year old cowboy fan. How does he feel about this team?

[Bob Sturm]

And is he does he feel anything at all?

[George Dunham]

Does he feel anything at all? And maybe now that he's gaining financial independence, does he even consider buying season tickets or buying in in any sense? Yeah, let's talk about that a little later. But let's talk about this coming up next. You've been doing a great job writing about the 1975 Cowboys because it was 50 years ago and it was a remarkable season. First team in super bowl history to make it there as a wild card. I was 10 years old at the time and remember trying to figure out what that meant. A wild card team? What does that even mean? And I remember watching one of the most famous moments in NFL history that comes up this week. And let's talk about that next.

[Bob Sturm]

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[George Dunham]

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[Bob Sturm]

Which. Which one? I'm sorry?

[George Dunham]

Super Bowl 6.

[Bob Sturm]

Oh, Super Bowl 6 was.

[George Dunham]

Was Roger, of course, Roger Dodger.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

Who hit Mike Ditka on the clutching touchdown. And this is, this is at the heart of the. The Landry years of the 29 years of Tom Landry. Yes, the 70s was just magical. And I know they weren't the team of the 70s because Pittsburgh beat them twice. Well, that 75 season, they're coming off of a winning year, but they didn't make the playoffs the year before. The year before was the mad bomber, Clint Longley, coming in on Thanksgiving Day and throwing two touchdown passes against Washington. That's right. And that was. I remember that as a kid, just thinking, man, even without Roger, the Cowboys always win on Thanksgiving. And I remember watching this divisional game from Metropolitan Stadium and it was December 28, 1975, and the Minnesota Vikings that year, Bob may have had their best team of all time. The purple people leaders on defense were fantastic. Fran Tarkenton was MVP that year, was he not?

[Bob Sturm]

That was a 12 and two team. Yeah, you might be right.

[George Dunham]

He was certainly up there. He had a great year.

[Bob Sturm]

He was the mvp.

[George Dunham]

And they were. And they were very close. I remember to. To almost doing what the Dolphins had done just a few years before and being undefeated. Their two losses were very, very close.

[Bob Sturm]

He was the offensive player of the year, the MVP and the AP player All pro as well. The quarterback, first team all pro as well. I mean, he just he took every award.

[George Dunham]

So it's. It's a cold day, it's muddy. For those who don't remember, the Vikings used to play outside Metropolitan Stadium. They shared the stadium with the twins. So you had dirt at around midfield.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

And I just remember the Cowboys, it was not their day and they had the ball. And I was watching the game with my dad and I distinctly remember saying, how are they going to come back and win this? They only got. They got like a minute left.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

And teams did not operate efficiently back then. Within one minute left and you got either zero or one timeout. I mean, it just. There's no way. And they got around midfield and there's still no way. And I still remember watching that. People always say, well, it seemed to hang in the air forever as a 10 year old. I'm telling you, that ball hung in the air forever as I'm watching it go downfield. And then there's Drew Pearson making the catch around the 10 or 5 yard line, guarded tightly by Nate Wright of the Minnesota Vikings. He catches it on his hip, scores the touchdown.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

And The Cowboys win. 1714. Correct. That was final.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. Yeah. And there's. There's so many things, just about those last two minutes that are so wonderful, and I would encourage every Cowboy fan to find the copy on YouTube, I believe the full copies on there, and I definitely have one in my archives and I would love to watch it with you someday. But the final two minutes are so wild because they are down 14 to 10, and there's like three different things that come quickly to mind. And yes, the catch is one of them. And all the controversy of that play, but the fourth and 17 that led to it, is a very important moment in that game as well.

[George Dunham]

Yes. So that's the Pearson catch around midfield. Correct.

[Bob Sturm]

The one around midfield that Pearson does catch. Yes. But he also gets kicked by the security guard.

[George Dunham]

That's unbelievable.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. And you could see it plain as day on the TV copy. The security guard kicked him and actually became a bit of a hero in Minnesota for doing it. It's one of those true. Strange but true moments where Pearson's on the ground after making this great catch. Nate Wright forces him out and he goes to the ground and he's at the feet of a security guard who literally kicks him. And it's the craziest thing you've ever seen. Like I said, Drew told me that him and the security guard, like, did a signing together, so. So people, I guess people wanted. Wanted that moment.

[George Dunham]

How did Drew restrain himself from getting up and just waylaying the guy.

[Bob Sturm]

Well, I, I think it was one of those deals where he didn't even realize it, honestly, when. Because there's so much adrenaline and you realize you're in the final minute, you got to get back to the huddle now. The play clock's going.

[George Dunham]

And.

[Bob Sturm]

And so I honestly think it was one of those deals, as I recall, where he almost needed to see the footage to realize what had happened. So. So I think that's what happened then. So now time is running down and you're right, they're over midfield. But, but, but then the big play happens and, and as it's happening, he's fighting with Nate Wright, of course, for position, and he pins the ball like, again, if you watch this, it's mind blowing, this historic moment that you can actually still see it, but he pins the ball between his elbow and hip. And so I don't know what you think is harder than catching a bomb. If you've ever caught a 50 yard pass from a NFL quarterback, it's. It messes with your head because you can't believe that ball in the sky is about to arrive to you. And back in the bad radio days, the old show I used to do, we had Stephen McGee throwing us bombs. And it's just your mind has so much on it as the ball is headed towards you, and the idea that you could have somebody kind of holding your arm down and you still catch it between your elbow and hip and is crazy, crazy that that got done. And then on that play, as he's running in you, you see a flag basically go by in the camera. It's not a flag. It is somebody throwing an orange at. At the play. Literally out of the stands, somebody threw an orange and it looks like a flag flag, and it's not. And so that is a moment.

[George Dunham]

And then somebody threw a whiskey bottle too, and that hit the official. Correct.

[Bob Sturm]

Well, that's. So the Vikings get like one last chance. And Tarkenton is sacked by two tall Jones in the very final moments of the game. And that's when a fan threw a whiskey bottle, hit the ref in the head, dropped him to the ground, and chaos ensued. And so you want to talk about all of that, all of that in the final two minutes of the game is just this moment in time that is still talked about all over the NFL. It's like ground zero of the term Hail Mary. And there's just so much unbelievable history. And maybe George, one of the more interesting misperceptions about that. And I know you and most of our listeners know that the outcome of 1975 fell short thanks to Lynn Swan and those Steelers freshwear engine too. Yeah. And I've always had it in my head though. I've always had it in my head that 1975 in sports gave us two of these moments, these miracles. And in both cases the team that had the miracle lost. And I'm talking about the Carlton Fisk World Series home run.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

And the Reds actually won that. I think, I think most people, especially if you are too young and you've just seen the Carlton Fisk replay, you're convinced that. Well, the Red Sox of course won that World Series. No, they actually lost the next night and that season finished second. And the same thing with the Hail Mary Cowboys, you, you assume that that was their moment to win the super bowl. And no, they actually fell short a couple weeks later. So there's just, there's just so much. Those two moments are such peak 1970s sports. Those, those are probably what maybe the, the two most seen pieces of footage from that moment in time. And they're just so perfect. They're wonderful.

[George Dunham]

Well, I tell you, that day, December 28, 1975, the Cowboys had me for life after that game. I just as a kid watching that. I remember jumping up and down going, he caught it. They won, they won that. Can't believe this. And yeah, Roger was just, Roger just walked on water to me after that. And, and you mentioned it the next week, 26 nothing, 28 nothing. They shut out the Rams in LA. Another one, you know, the. Hey, the Rams, okay, they've got home field now. The Cowboys just went in there and destroyed them. Preston Pearson had an incredible diving catch. And that game, which I. 7 to 7, 37, 7. Okay. I think I was thinking of 77, 78 when they shut him out. Preston Pearson had an amazing diving catch. And okay, I remember watching that game because after Christmas Day we went to my grandparents ranch in Gainesville, Texas. And I remember watching that game over the Rams. And hey, I know the Steelers are great and all this, but the Cowboys are going to absolutely just smack them around the Orange Bowl. And of course, despite taking a 7 nothing lead, that didn't happen. But they had me for life then. And that play, the Hail Mary, which is what Roger Stallback called it after the game I just said Hail Mary and threw a deep to Drew. And since it's become known as the Hail Mary, but also in defeat, I just remember being so struck by Tom Landry that Here I was, a 10 year old trying to figure out the world, and here I was like, you know, wiping tears from my face, thinking, oh, my gosh, we lost the super bowl. And they had it. They were up at halftime and Mitch Hoop's got his punt blocked and just everything went wrong in the second half. But I remember Landry afterwards just being so stoic and such a World War II, you know, hero, that I was just like, right, okay, yeah, we'll be back when you watch. We'll be back. And that's right, you know, two years later, they. They won the Super Bowl. And yeah, that. But that day, that's. If you talk about the significance, I think for a lot of Cowboy fans about our age, that just drew us in as man, y', all, whatever this is, this is unlike anything I've ever seen before. And sign me up until I don't take another breath on this earth.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, we're gonna ride. We're gonna ride with these boys for a while. And what a time that must have been. I've really had so much fun reliving this season, and there's so much into it, and every day there's a new set of stories. And, yeah, the whole thing's changed. I mean, it is 50 years ago. And, you know, some people, I've always thought, and there's probably no way to do this, but I've always thought there is a place in this world to really lean into that element of sports history with a network and to. I know the broadcast, it won't be HD, it won't be 4k, but if you could in real time kind of lean into the 1975 or 1985 and just in real time show that week's games and almost cover the league like it's happening now. And so maybe even have talk shows looking at this week's action, but you just do it with today's technology. I just think it'd be amazing. X's and O's game draft coverage of the 1976 draft. I don't even know how you do it, George. And I know most of the footage is lost to history like this this week. So the Hail mary game is December 28th, and this past weekend, December 21st, the Cowboys finished their season against the Jets. I don't know if you have any memories of that game, not really. But the jets and John Riggins and Joe namath and that 75 jets team was awful. As many jets teams have been over the years. We're getting to the end of Namath as a Jet. I think he missed curfew the week before, and they were very upset with him in the New York papers and whatever the case may be. But the Cowboys had Roger with sore ribs from the Washington game that they needed the do or die game on December 13th to beat Washington 31, 10. Both quarterbacks were beat up. Billy Kilmer had to leave the game injured. Roger was really banged up, but he survived the game. But then they gave him this jets game off because on Saturday, December 20th. And this is kind of funny how people are upset that the NFL is playing up against the college football playoffs. The NFL has been playing on the Saturday before Christmas for about 60 years.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

And that game, Vikings, Bills. If The Vikings beat O.J. and the Bills on Saturday, then the Cowboys knew they were going to Minnesota the next week and they decided to sit Roger because the game had no meaning. And Clint Longley got his first and maybe only start as Cowboys quarterback in this jets game. You'd have to correct me if he got any starts the following year.

[George Dunham]

I think you're right about that.

[Bob Sturm]

But I know his exit from the Cowboys, I think might have been 76.

[George Dunham]

And that's where he came in.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes. And that's where I think Clint Longley might have taken a swing at Roger. Training camp.

[George Dunham]

Training camp. Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. So anyway, the Mad Bomber did start at Shea Stadium, and the Cowboys fell behind early before roaring back with their defense again and 131, 21. So. So this is the week of preparation before going to the Met to take on those Vikings. So it's just. It's just the most fun. I realize it's the epitome of nerdom, but sign me up for. Sign me up for, you know, especially during another disappointing Cowboy season, to remember that it wasn't always this way.

[George Dunham]

Well, and the other thing about that we mentioned throughout this season was the draft. And here, that was about halfway through the 20 consecutive winning season. But guys like Jethro Pew, Bob Lilly and Leroy Jordan were starting to either retire or about to retire. And then you had this influx of talent, the dirty dozen, the draft of 75. Randy White in the first round, hall of Famer, Thomas Henderson in the second round or, sorry, late first round. Who would have been a Hall of Famer had he not derailed his own career. Burton Lawless, terrific player who also had.

[Bob Sturm]

Injury problems, but started the whole season.

[George Dunham]

But started the whole season. Bob Bruinig, who became only the third linebacker, I believe, in Cowboys history, middle linebacker and Cowboys history, played into the 80s Pat Donovan, outstanding offensive lineman. Randy Hughes, who I think could have been a Hall of Fame safety had he not had just shoulder surgery after shoulder surgery. Mike Hagman, a prominent outside linebacker. Mitch Hoops, who had a punt blocked in Super Bowl 10. And then. Yeah. Herb Scott, who was taken in the 13th round, and Scott Laidlaw, running back in the 14th round, who played a prominent role for the Cowboys for several years. I mean, that was just a. A group of players who moved forward and were a part of Cowboy lore.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes. And you intentionally missed Ed Two Small Jones, who was the Rutgers defensive back. Apparently, the 75 Cowboys had two. Ed Jones is on the team. And I really enjoyed that. You had two tall and too small.

[George Dunham]

And that's where it came about. Yeah. Yeah. That's where too tall came about. Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

Isn't that great?

[George Dunham]

Oh, man.

[Bob Sturm]

Just. Boy.

[George Dunham]

And you talk about riding or dying, you. You give me a guy named Ed2Tall Jones. And just his. You mentioned he had the late sack against the Vikings on December 28th.

[Bob Sturm]

And. Yep.

[George Dunham]

Just.

[Bob Sturm]

Man, Harvey was so good.

[George Dunham]

Harvey. On the other side, Larry Cole and Randy White, who. They were trying to figure out where to put him at linebacker or.

[Bob Sturm]

Or.

[George Dunham]

I'll tell you what, how about defensive tackle? He's going to be one of the best that ever played the game. Just.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. And they're running the flex. And I know we talked about. The 75 team brought the shotgun out of. Out of bubble wrap. So early in the 60s, the 49ers experimented with the shotgun, and it didn't go real well. And was it. Red hickey was that 49ers coach back then. And then he served on Tom Landry's staff forever as, like, a scout for the. For the Tech sram. And so Red Hickey was here, and I believe before 75, they were trying to figure out how to get Roger right again. Roger had had a couple tough years, and they thought the shotgun would make a lot of sense. And so when you read about the shotgun in 1975, they're talking about it like it's the craziest development in football you've ever seen. Kind of like, I guess how we've talked about the Tush push the last couple of years. Like, man, this is a crazy thing. I don't know if this is football. And they did that with a shotgun simultaneously is the flex defense for Doomsday. And that's really interesting, too, partly because Tom Landry wasn't really on one side of the ball. And that's the other thing about Tom Landry that gets lost is he oversaw everything. And that was a little more common back then. Also more common back then was kind of trusting your quarterback to call plays, which ironically here, Tom Landry had a problem with Roger doing that. But Tom Landry, a bit of a control freak in the most respectful way possible, that I may say it. And for him to have these innovations on offense and defense, incredible, is pretty wild. Now, I will tell you, and I.

[George Dunham]

Do believe the first one to put gunners outside on punts too, but.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, go ahead.

[George Dunham]

I'm sorry, what were you going to say?

[Bob Sturm]

Well, I was just going to say, I don't know that I have a great feel for why the flex defense worked like it did, and that's kind of a blind spot for me. If somebody were to pull me aside and say, explain the idea behind the flex defense, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. I do know they had a couple guys withdrawn off the line on the defensive line to mess up a lot of the blocking paths and schematics of offenses of the day. But I young me, and frankly to this day, older me, I don't know that I've ever had the light go on on exactly why that seemed to cause everybody problems. Or did they just have so many butt kickers that they might have made any scheme look pretty good back then. I've never fully hashed that out.

[George Dunham]

You know, I think that helped the fact that they had so many great players. But at the same time, Tom Landry was an engineer and was all about angles. And the way I understood it back then, when it really was about running the football, that was how you. That's what every offense was based off, running the football. And it was designed to stop the run. And the 4:3 defense, which, you know, they were playing in New York, and that was something he carried on with some just little additions of those angles and it would funnel to. It was another way, the way I understood it, of gap control to where you had the free runner and that was the middle linebacker, Leroy Jordan, who was so good at it. And that's why he had a boatload of tackles every year. And it was really hard to run the ball against the Cowboys and well, they were plus pressure too. And then, yeah, off the edge they had some really interesting ideas too.

[Bob Sturm]

And every week it felt like the opposing quarterback was. Was under duress. Now teams would score against the Cowboys. I don't know if they, you know, the 75 scoring defense was not quite up to normal cowboy standards. They were still sorting some things.

[George Dunham]

Still trying to transition, too, with lots of transition.

[Bob Sturm]

Cornell Green's gone, Bob Lilly's gone. A lot of guys had just hung them up. And so they're changing on the fly. They're. It's more Cliff and Charlie. They're still figuring, you know, Mel Renfro's still there, but, you know, they're trying to sort things out. And of course the league is starting to change and more downfield plays, but boy, could they get after the quarterback. And when they got there back then. And this isn't just the Cowboys, this is the Steelers, the Raiders, the Dolphins, everybody. When you got to the quarterback back then, you were trying to put him in the hospital and it was brutal, just brutal. There were not rules set up to try to make sure that we kept our quarterbacks on the field like that.

[George Dunham]

Let alone what you would do to receivers too. They would just take a mugging all the way down field.

[Bob Sturm]

That's right.

[George Dunham]

All right. Well, that was 1975. Thank you for that trip down memory lane. It's still real to me and I can still picture it like it was yesterday. But we're in 2025 and we'll bring up something that we brought up at the beginning of the season and see how this is playing out. Coming up next.

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[George Dunham]

Okay, so it has been 30 years. And when we started talking about this team, Bob, at the beginning of the season and we talked about this on the Musers, the podcast too, back in training camp. What about this younger generation that watches the Cowboys? Are they still into it? Does it still matter to the 10 year old like it did to me in 1975? We talk about the 20 and 30 year old. How about the kid in elementary school right now where it's like Cowboys? Yeah, Wake me up when they do something significant. In this world where either you're great or you suck. It's pretty easy to put the Cowboys in a category right now. I still wonder how this all plays out and when. When the fan says enough is enough and they, they stop buying these expensive tickets. Some already have. That's why you have so many Eagles fans there and Bears fans there when they watch a game at AT&T Stadium. What do you, what do you think about the younger generation Cowboy fan or even the older generation Cowboy fan who's like, you know what? I don't need this in my life anymore?

[Bob Sturm]

Well, I think that, I think those two things are connected. I think, I think the dad's becoming apathetic is passed down to the sons, probably. I think conversely, if the dad is building the week around the Cowboys game and his excitement for it, then the sun feeds off it. And, dad, let's go. Or, dad, you gonna be home in time. The game's about to start and hey, I'm hurrying. I'm trying to grab the pizza, you know, you know, it's. It's either an event or it's not. And we've heard from so many people that are, that are sort of checked out on this thing because of this numbness, this, this feeling of apathy that is setting into Cowboys football. And so how do you get away from the apathy? Well, you need to believe that what they're doing makes sense and that it gives you hope. And I just think that we are to a point now where you could argue things feel pretty hopeless now. They propped that up with getting shotty in here, and shotty got everybody the blood flowing again. That, okay, this guy's energetic, understands the task, and now he's going to go. But, man, what is so frustrating about that was it kind of got sabotaged by telling him who his defensive coordinator was going to be and then making the entire camp about this Micah Parsons contract situation. And I just feel like they had a chance to sort of relaunch and instead it was sort of self sabotage. And I believe self sabotage precisely because Micah challenged Jerry to like a. A pissing match, if you will. And I think Jerry sort of got.

[George Dunham]

On the whole season.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, he got so mad. And maybe the moment that swung the entire thing was Micah laying on the training table during a preseason game, which looking back is such small potatoes. Like, show him you don't do that. Like, he didn't burn the flag and he didn't sit out a game. He was going to Play like the Cowboys are notorious. Notorious for not letting their players play in preseason games if they have any value whatsoever. So the idea that he laid on the training table for, I don't know, at least enough time for a camera to catch him, it's not a great look. And he was being petulant, but he was 25 and 25 year olds get petulant at times, but the adults in the room do not allow them to be pulled offside. And I don't know, I just think, I just think these last 24 months, if you want to start the clock with that Green Bay playoff game that we referenced earlier, we're still in this Groundhog Day of just every move seems to compound the one before it. And I don't know, I left Sunday's game just feeling so hopeless. Like these final two weeks. Like how do you, how do you even interrupt your family Christmas by saying I've got to turn on the Cowboys commanders game at noon? Like, yeah. For what? To see what, like what do you. What are you excited about?

[George Dunham]

Well, you know, here's the difference. We talk about 75. I remember 74. And I remember hearing all the Cowboys are not going to make the playoffs. And I think they played the Raiders late in that game. But I was by the channel because my team was playing and.

[Bob Sturm]

Right.

[George Dunham]

But if you've been beaten over the head for 30 years now, what has happened to the Cowboy fan? It's just like it's been for years in Cleveland. It's just like it's been for years in trying to think of someone else. But they've all gone to Super Bowls at some point.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, very Tennessee Titans.

[George Dunham]

Tennessee Titans. But they haven't been around no. You know, all that long. Okay, a Dolphins fan, a Dolphin. If you're a Dolphin fan, you hadn't been there in forever, you know. And the Raiders. Yeah, the Raiders. After a while you just, you're kicked in the head so many times you just start thinking, yeah, and. And what do I matter anyway? It's all that matters to them is, hey, is Post Malone playing halftime? You know we are. How do the TV numbers look? And that that shouldn't matter to a fan and it doesn't. That the America's team label never mattered to me that that's just what the tech SRAM like to perpetuate. But man, I didn't care about that. I just knew they were my team and.

[Bob Sturm]

Right.

[George Dunham]

I just wonder how many people now are just going, yeah, I guess they're my team. I guess I Mean, I don't know, man. It used to hurt when they would lose and it would be ecstasy when they would win.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, yeah. No, we're at the point of the year, unfortunately. We've been here so many times and, you know, I guess I'm the short timer, but this is my 28th cowboy season and I this Christmas week, you kind of feel in your, in your bones of how cowboy seasons usually go. And this very week, despite the joy of the holidays, you're almost at a point where you're just want them to go away for a few months and let you heal. Like, I don't want this feeling of misery. So please go on vacation from my football team and maybe in seven or eight months I'll have the energy to sound, feel excited again because the grass and the Hard Knocks theme and all this stuff will suck me back in in this summer because, you know, we can't take any more baseball or whatever it might be, but, but we're just here now and it's just like, I, I, I realize it's my job, but I kind of don't want to watch these last two Cowboys games because right there with you, there's nothing in it that gets the juices flowing right now. And they just, they just need such a relaunch of the same old, same old. And by the way, that's why people turn on deck and it's not, he shouldn't take it personally.

[George Dunham]

Empty numbers haven't done anything. Yeah, but it's what it matters most. And blah, blah.

[Bob Sturm]

But honestly, George, it's just this. I'm tired of looking at the same guys and I'm tired of looking at the same team. And so Dak doesn't have to take it personally except the fact that, you know, this organization has probably given him half a billion dollars in his career or whatever it's going to be. So maybe take that part personally. But the point is he's now like a mascot for the organization for what Cowboys football means to this generation. It's Dak Prescott because he is the longest tenured Cowboy and he's the guy on the screen all the time. And whether it's his fault or not, him and Jerry Jones and that stadium and Stephen and, you know, whatever, whoever the enduring faces are on this narrative at this point of the year, every year, we're sick of looking at them. We're sick of this whatever this is, the disappointment, the fact that big home games feel like they're over in the second quarter and just the blank stares and The. I don't know, man. It's just. It's so repetitive. Like, the script writers keep writing the same thing, and it's just, you know, sometimes we do get to January before the December feeling happens, but, you know, it just moves by a couple weeks. And so for the lifelong Cowboys fans, I don't know, man, it's like they need their next savior. They need the next person that makes them feel like, oh, this is different. Like, you know, to your listeners in Singapore and Belgium, I should explain who Cooper Flagg is, but Cooper Flagg is giving hope to Dallas basketball people because this weekend he turned 19 years old. So to this point of his story, he's been an 18 year old. He's been the age of a high school senior, and he is doing unbelievably awesome things for a man his age. And that has so much value. George not that the basketball team is good, not that the Mavericks are good right now, but it represents hope, a belief that the future is going to be rewarding. And it may be a lie, but the whole sports experience, the whole fan experience is based on, I hope, I believe that the future is going to be fun. And I don't know that the Cowboys have that guy, by the way. That guy could be a coach. It could have been Jim Harbaugh. It could be somebody that just comes in here where you're like, man, this is a new story. This is a new quarterback. This is a new savior. This is a new coach. This is a new something. But unfortunately, the Cowboys are the same. It's the same Jerry and Steven production, and then they hire the same type of guy that they're comfortable with, which I guess this year is best expressed in Matt Eberfluss. And I feel bad because that's a normal guy or a good guy, but he's caught up as the new antagonist or the new scapegoat of the story. And we all kind of know that firing Matt Eberfluss is not the answer, but we also know employing him is not the solution. So round and round we go, and we'll get into the draft cycle and just all this stuff, but it does come back to the emptiness of thinking we're spinning our wheels as a franchise, we're spinning our wheels as a fan base. They're not any closer to a Super bowl than they were a year ago or two years ago or three years ago. They are. They're running in circles, George. And that's the worst place you can be as a sports fan, is believing that Your team is not going anywhere except in a giant circle.

[George Dunham]

Well, and maybe the most disturbing thing, the Cowboys play on Christmas day. And here we are about the wrap up this week's episode. I haven't heard the sleigh bells once.

[Bob Sturm]

There's no sleigh bells.

[George Dunham]

Listen to that. I don't hear a thing.

[Bob Sturm]

Santa.

[George Dunham]

Santa's given up on the Cowboys.

[Bob Sturm]

Santa has given up on the Cowboys and I honestly can't blame him. In fact, maybe the best way to because we're not going to preview the Washington game in any depth. I'm sorry, guys. You know what they got, you know what they don't have. You also know that neither of these teams are going anywhere this year and that everybody in that stadium will be miserable. I, my only curiosity would be this, George. How does anybody sell to their wife? We got to flip on the game right now at noon on Christmas day.

[George Dunham]

I don't know. I don't know. I thought you're going to say how does the, the dude in Northern Virginia say? Look, I bought these tickets like four months ago. We're all going, right?

[Bob Sturm]

We are not a Christmas gift. We got little Johnny tickets.

[George Dunham]

You'll see. Marcus Mariota against Joe Milton. No thanks.

[Bob Sturm]

Jaden Daniels against the Cowboys on Christmas day.

[George Dunham]

Thanks, dad.

[Bob Sturm]

Well, I got some bad news. Jaden is not going to be there. Everything so depressing. Well, yeah, I mean it is. And, and I'll, you know, we're going to be on that game because it's, it's what we do. There's a really good chance I won't be watching it live. I'll just be honest with everybody. I'm, I'm probably not going to take over the family Christmas up in Wisconsin by saying I've got to watch this game live with my laptop out as they would all look at me like.

[George Dunham]

I have three live tweeting going. Oh man.

[Bob Sturm]

Throwbank. Yeah, yeah, so, so I'll probably watch that game on some level of delay.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, me too.

[Bob Sturm]

You know, but look, if these two teams were both 11 and 5 or whatever their record might be, if they were double digit teams battling for the top of the division, we would all be front and center at noon on a Christmas. Even though that seems weird, but it's just, it's just another year of, of running in circles, George.

[George Dunham]

It is. And well, yeah, we're not going to miss an episode. We're not going to miss an episode. And Bob, I want you, I wish you a merry, merry Christmas. Same to you. Peter Welton, our producer Absolutely. For putting up with whatever this has been for the last hour or so. Cowboys post mortem. And the season's not even over yet. We still have two more of these things to. To run through. Gosh. As Bradsham once said, it would be funny if it wasn't sad. And that's. That's kind of where we are at the end of the 2025 season.

[Bob Sturm]

Hey, can I ask you one last thing?

[George Dunham]

Sure.

[Bob Sturm]

What do you think of Tyler Smith at tackle?

[George Dunham]

I love it.

[Bob Sturm]

You love it.

[George Dunham]

Okay, well, you don't? Well, I thought at the beginning of the season that was a good way to go. Until Tyler Guy is ready.

[Bob Sturm]

I'm not against it. I just, I, I, it's curious. I don't mind it doing. Doing it now. I guess what I'm wondering is, is this permanent? And does that your right tackle like he was at Oklahoma and does that mean Terence Steele is out of here?

[George Dunham]

And see, that sells me on 26. Bob for offense, I'm thinking, okay, yeah, Tyler Smith. Yeah. He's probably better at right tech. That's part of the. Hey, let's, let's buy in on this thing.

[Bob Sturm]

Maybe give TJ Bass a little kiss to make him happy and just start him at left guard. And may. I don't know. I mean, I, it's curious. It's also curious that they sign him to a big guard contract and then.

[George Dunham]

Moved him right in, slide him out the tackle.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. And people are like, look, Tyler Smith is happy. He got a great deal, and he's not mad about the Cowboys pulling a fast one on him, but I think they kind of pulled a fast one out of him. He signed at 24 and the new tackles are making 28. And I don't think he cares, and therefore, I'm not sure I cared that much. I do think that he's a dominant guard, and I'm not sure he's a dominant tackle. So I don't know how smart it is, but I just, I didn't want to do this whole episode and not even touch that because I do think that's fascinating.

[George Dunham]

Well, let's grade him over the next two weeks, Bob, and combine it with this last week and see what we think.

[Bob Sturm]

There you go. In fact, yes, I would say this, guys, to anyone listening right now, guys or girls, if you need to convince your significant other that you must turn on Netflix at noon on Christmas day, just tell her or him that you have to evaluate Tyler Smith at left tackle.

[George Dunham]

Tyler Smith's playing left tackle.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. And we're all we're all supposed to watch him. For the next users, the podcast Cowboys Edition. And that's why we have to step down our Christmas day to watch Tyler Smith.

[George Dunham]

I wish we would have heard some sleigh bells, but yeah, Santa vacated us the week of Christmas. He's so fed up with the Cowboys.

[Bob Sturm]

Santa is coming down to truck truck day.

[George Dunham]

All right, well, Bob, travel safe and let's convene next week and see what we see.

[Bob Sturm]

That's right.

[George Dunham]

We do that next week here on the Musers the podcast Cowboys Edition. Football friends, Cowboys ho ho.

[Bob Sturm]

The United States Soccer Federation presents the U.S. soccer Podcast.

[George Dunham]

This is the show where we bring you in depth interviews with U.S. soccer stars. This time, Sam Coffey.

[Bob Sturm]

The World cup is in two years. Is it time yet? Like, can we get back into camp?

[George Dunham]

Tim Ream. We're going to continue to show other countries we're not going to be pushed around. And Jedi Robinson. Every time you come back and you put the jersey on, it means more and more each time. So we'll be back here with all the best stories. The U.S. soccer Podcast. We've got a lot to talk about.

[Bob Sturm]

Follow and listen on your favorite platform.