Cowboys Weekly Edition (@ Lions)

Summary

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The Musers The Podcast: Cowboys Weekly Edition (@ Lions)

Date: December 2, 2025
Hosts: George Dunham & Bob Sturm
Podcast Network: Cumulus Podcast Network

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Episode Overview

This special early-release episode zeroes in on the Dallas Cowboys’ back-to-back primetime games: a review of the resounding Thanksgiving Day win over the Kansas City Chiefs, and an in-depth preview of the upcoming Thursday Night Football showdown with the Detroit Lions. George and Bob deliver their signature blend of humor, insightful analysis, and deep Cowboys knowledge, spotlighting offensive adjustments, defensive changes, special teams quirks, and the evolving NFC playoff picture.

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Main Discussion Themes

• Thorough breakdown of the Cowboys’ win against the Chiefs and what it reveals about their offensive adaptability
• Discussion of quarterback Dak Prescott’s elite play and the nuances of his game management
• The evolution of the Cowboys’ defense, especially on third downs, after losing key personnel
• Emerging key players and the value of special teams contributors stepping up
• Preview of the Cowboys-Lions matchup: strategic keys, player matchups, and playoff implications

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Key Segments & Insights

1. Cowboys Take Down the Chiefs: What Does It Mean?

[00:00 – 14:25]

• The Cowboys outlasted the defending champs, with Dak Prescott showing both resilience and intelligence against Steve Spagnolo’s blitz-heavy Kansas City defense.
  • “If this was college football, then we would look at all their wins and say they haven’t beat anybody… But since this is pro football, we can reasonably say … these are good wins, and we’re going to count them as great wins.” – Bob [01:25]
• Moment of crisis: Early interception risks nearly knock Dallas out, but steady recovery avoids a spiral.
  • George highlights CeeDee Lamb for breaking up what could have been a disastrous second interception:
  • “Maybe the best play CeeDee Lamb made all day long was breaking up what would have been a second interception by Nick Bolton…” – George [02:55]

Dak Prescott and Offensive Maturity

• “[Opponents] are getting absolutely elite play from Dak Prescott… not perfect play… but he’s just doing his Peyton Manning bit where I will get the ball out one step before you hit me.” – Bob [05:50]
• Bob praises Dak’s pre-snap intelligence:
  • “Dak in pre-snap is as good as it gets… he now knows what you’re trying to do against him. And he also knows how to hurt you back.” [09:05]
• The offense leans into high-percentage throws to the flats as a response to Cover 4/blitzes—a deliberate design:
  • “If you go rewatch this game… how many times did the Cowboys hit the guy in the left flat? … They were populating where the Chiefs couldn’t get to in time.” – Bob [12:10]

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2. Unheralded Heroes and Play Design

[14:25 – 24:55]

• Spotlight on Malik Davis’ breakout 43-yard TD run—a reward for years of grinding on special teams and practice roster hustle:
  • “This is the story of the guy who has toiled for three or four years and gained a reputation… The first way to gain the trust of your coaching staff… is special teams.” – Bob [16:45]
• Play breakdown: The Cowboys “steal” a 49ers-style counter/power run using two skill position players (Lipke & Span-Ford) as blockers—a nod to modern NFL innovation.
  • “The reason I mention the 49ers is they run counter and power with two skill guys and that’s very uncommon. The Cowboys have stolen it.” – Bob [20:00]
• Significance of special teams regulars getting key offensive reps and making them count.

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3. The Defensive Turnaround: Numbers Tell the Tale

[33:50 – 45:41]

• Statistical deep dive: The Cowboys have become a top-10 defense on third down over the past three weeks, rising from dead last before the bye week:
  • “Over those three weeks, they’ve been a top-10 defense on third down, where they were dead last in the first games… If they would have stayed at 52.6 [percent allowed], it would have been the worst third down defense of all time.” – George/Bob [35:14–36:47]
  • Historical context: compares current third down performance to the dreadful Mike Nolan era and the Micah Parsons effect.
• On new defensive line combos, pass rush, and adapting to life post-Micah Parsons:
  • “The Cowboys have found their best pass rush. In big moments, you see Ezraku, Quinn, Osa, Jadaveon Clowney… those are the four on that crazy third down throw.” – Bob [41:45]
• Identifying “curveball” moments like Rashee Rice’s key drop (“traffic in Dallas” quip from George [43:15]), and what-ifs that tilted the outcome.

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4. Lions Preview: Keys and Matchups

[51:06 – 63:37]

• Focus: Dallas’ ability to stop Detroit’s elite rushing attack (Gibbs & Montgomery) is the game’s biggest question:
  • “Detroit leads the NFL in running the football as far as yards per carry… I think the Cowboys are going to get a snoot full of Gibbs on Thursday night.” – George [51:38]
• Discussion of Detroit’s recent offensive struggles, lost play-callers, and injury woes:
  • “They’re not quite right… their offensive line isn’t the same, their play caller isn’t the same. So much so that Dan Campbell took it over…” – George [54:14]
  • “Goff is a guy who does not do well under pressure… If you can get that interior push, then it gets muddy fast and he does not like that…” – Bob [54:59]
• Notable stat: The Cowboys lead the NFL in drawing defensive pass interference (DPI) flags:
  • “This is the number I was going to give you… Cowboys lead the NFL in drawing defensive pass interference. It has now happened 17 times this year. Lamb leads the way… having drawn 10 PI calls.” – George [58:54]
  • Bob: “If you foul every play, they’re not going to call them all… It’s actually a good strategy.” [59:38]
• How Detroit’s aggressive, physical man coverage could backfire or set up a penalty-fest

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5. Playoff Implications & Final Thoughts

[63:37 – End]

• If the Cowboys beat Detroit, their playoff chances shoot into the 70–80% range:
  • “If they win against the Lions, I believe their playoff probabilities will shoot through the roof … I think we’re getting to a point where it’s now riding a lot on Thursday.” – Bob [63:37]
• This gauntlet stretch (Eagles, Chiefs, Lions) could reframe the team’s season and have the whole league on notice.
  • “What team in this league can say we beat the Eagles, Chiefs, and Lions in a 12-day period?” – Bob [64:25]
• Light-hearted hype for the upcoming “Hard Knocks: NFC East” and hopes for “must-see TV” drama, especially with the Cowboys’ role.
  • “Could we have a Philadelphia meltdown that’s being covered in real time and Washington step back, whatever that disaster was in New York… and the Cowboys always make for good theater.” – George [66:09]

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Notable Quotes

• “Dak in pre-snap is as good as it gets. He studies the film… and he now knows what you’re trying to do against him. And he also knows how to hurt you back.” – Bob [09:05]
• “This is the story of the guy who has toiled for three or four years and gained a reputation… The first way to gain the trust of your coaching staff… is special teams.” – Bob [16:45]
• “If they would have stayed at 52.6%, it would have been the worst third down defense of all time.” – Bob [36:47]
• “If you foul every play, they’re not going to call them all. It’s actually a good strategy.” – Bob [59:38]
• “Don’t let the Cowboys get into the playoffs. They will definitely be the team nobody wants to deal with.” – Bob [65:05]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening and Win over Chiefs: [00:00–14:25]
• Malik Davis & Run Game Innovation: [14:25–24:55]
• Special Teams Nugget/Offensive Line: [24:55–31:33]
• Third Down Defense Breakthrough: [33:50–45:41]
• Lions Preview & Key Matchups: [51:06–63:37]
• Playoff Picture & Hard Knocks Banter: [63:37–End]

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Episode Tone & Style

George and Bob keep their discussion lively, digressive in the best ticket tradition, and informative—mixing deep football X’s and O’s with historical context, player anecdotes, and running jokes. Detailed statistical analysis is interspersed with memorable quips and callback humor, making the show equally accessible to longtime listeners and new fans.

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In Summary

The Musers deliver an engaging, sharp, and comprehensive look at the Cowboys’ Thanksgiving triumph and looming battle with Detroit, with enough detail and wit to keep both stats junkies and casual fans listening through to the very last “Football Friends” sign-off.

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Transcript

[George Dunham]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast. Smart move. Being financially savvy. Smart move. Another smart move. Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. It's the Musers the podcast Cowboys Edition Football Friends, George Dunham, Bob Sturm. We're dropping it a little bit early. The Musers the podcast episode 23 will drop as it always does on Wednesday morning. But we're getting to you early this week because we have a Thanksgiving day game to talk about and another Thursday night game to preview. Cowboys and Lions this coming Thursday from Detroit. And what we thought was a really scary schedule for the Cowboys. So far so good, Bob. They take care of the Eagles and then on Thanksgiving, best game of the year.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's really impressive what we're seeing right now. And, and they're, they're having fun and winning is fun, George.

[George Dunham]

So much better than losing.

[Bob Sturm]

Watching wins is really fun. We have notice and yeah, I mean, look, if this was college football, then we would look at all their wins and say they haven't beat anybody because the teams they're beating are having their own struggles. But, but since this is pro football, we can reasonably say that these were the two super bowl teams of the last super bowl and therefore these are good wins and we're going to count them as great wins. And just up and down the roster, you're seeing guys making plays, you know, and winning, winning football games in a, in a myriad of different ways. But they all have a few commonalities about them that make us think maybe this thing is about to go on a bit of a run.

[George Dunham]

Maybe it's three in a row. They'll try to make it four in a row Thursday night against the Detroit Lions. So more on Thanksgiving.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

Not a more on Thanksgiving, but more on the game that was played on Thanksgiving.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

I really thought once the, the Chiefs got up early, once they went up again, I thought, oh man, well, maybe the, the Chiefs are just too much because the Eagles are their own thing. They've got some major problems to work through right now. Kansas City can still function on offense and they still have, I think, a good defense, although the Cowboys certainly exposed it in some key moments. The game, I thought, started turning when the Cowboys just wouldn't go away, or maybe didn't make that. The early mistake hurt that got him down 7 nothing. The Dak interception, I tell you, maybe the best place CD Lamb made all day long was breaking up what would have been a second interception by Nick Bolton, knocking it out of his hands. Because maybe that game gets out of hand if Kansas City gets up by a couple of scores.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, that's interesting. You know, when. When you look at this game, there were. There were a million things to consider and we should probably stay on one side of the ball so as not to get too crazy. So. So I agree with you. Let's start with the offense.

[George Dunham]

Okay.

[Bob Sturm]

Just from a standpoint of, I think this game was really going to be a great test because Steve Spagnolo does a great job of drilling down and taking away your strengths and throwing a defense at you that perhaps you haven't seen before. He, you know, he's done this traditionally through the years with Josh Allen, with Joe Burrow, with all the, you know, Lamar Jackson, all of the different quarterbacks that the Chiefs happen upon every year in the playoffs. And so it was reasonable to suggest he would have some, some real treats for Dak Prescott and this offense. And I think what we're finding week to week is there's no real good way to defend the Cowboys offense right now. And the reason is specifically, they're getting absolutely elite play from Dak Prescott. Now, that doesn't mean they're getting perfect play from Dak Prescott. That's a different deal, especially as we're seeing in the first, as he is playing off script and perhaps a little bit juiced up at the start of games and perhaps not willing just to take profits. So when I look at that interception, not the one that was broken up, but the one that was an actual interception on the first real big pass of the day.

[George Dunham]

He got drilled.

[Bob Sturm]

He got drilled. But also what he did there is he saw Pickens on the corner as opposed to Turpin in the flat. And, and we're always going to cheer on when our quarterbacks are more aggressive. So I'm not here to, you know, pick and choose, but I will say, as I recall, that was third and short. Third and somewhere between two and four. I don't have my notes in front of me. Which is third and four. Okay, third and four. That's right. So Turpin's there in the flat and, and, and it's not as exciting, of course, and it's not as damaging, but it's right There, and it's a free first down. And. And I just think, you know, that's the best way to sort of dip your toes into a game, is to let's get the team moving a little bit. Let's move the chains a few times before we get too adventurous. And he tried the adventurous throw, and. Why wouldn't you? Because Pickens wins on almost all those. But he did get hit by the blitzing safety.

[George Dunham]

And.

[Bob Sturm]

And. And, you know, the Blitz was there 19 times on Sunday or Thursday. I'm going to. I bet you I'll screw that up plenty, because the Cowboys used to play games on Sundays.

[George Dunham]

Used to?

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. Yeah. Back in the good old days, they would play on Sundays. But on this Thursday game, you know, 19 blitzes, zero sacks. And so you hear that and you're like, wow, the offensive line must have just been a wall of protection. And I think if you go back and look, you would say no. Past protection was kind of mid, kind of average. Nothing. Nothing super special about it. What was special was Dak was doing his Peyton Manning bit where I will get the ball out one step before you hit me. And he did it over and over and over again in this game, and that was the one time he got it wrong. And he did get hit, and it did affect his throw, and it did turn into a giveaway otherwise. And I. Again, I want to credit him and Shotty and Clayton Adams and anybody else who was involved in this. I want to credit those guys for not getting super timid because of that interception, because his next big throw against a blitz was the touchdown to CD Lamb over Trent McDuffie. And that just shows that they weren't going to be flustered by one mistake. And I loved it.

[George Dunham]

Yeah. And. Well, I'll tell you what. The very next play after that is broken up, the next play is third and nine. That's a lamb catch for 17.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

So there's a third and nine conversion earlier. There's a third and seven conversion, and then the throw to Lamb for the touchdown was third and 10. Man, I don't care who you're playing, and I think the Chiefs are pretty good. You convert three third downs of seven yards or more. That's. That's pretty salty to tie up the game. But, yeah, in that stretch of converting those third downs was the near interception. That one gets picked and they get down 14 nothing or 10 nothing. I wonder how the game goes, if it's a. It's a different type of game that maybe you're chasing.

[Bob Sturm]

Yep.

[George Dunham]

As Opposed to being tied at seven. But you're right about Dak. It's just he made so many plays. Third and nine, Flournoy catches one along the boundary.

[Bob Sturm]

You talking about in the fourth quarter.

[George Dunham]

And then if you roll on to later in the game, I would say the touchdown to Williams, the flip followed by the spin out throw to Pickens on the pylon for the two point conversion. Yeah, those are two of the best back to back plays Dak has ever made.

[Bob Sturm]

I agree with you. I absolutely agree that those were fantastic moments where, you know, and I say this quite a bit here with football friends and you know, it feels cliche, but I just, I just think it's important to keep saying it because it's obvious right now when you watch the tape, he, he knows the answers to the test. The, the whole thing with quarterback play. The, the longer I watch this game and I bet you feel the same way, the more you watch football, the more you recognize that arm strength is something, quarterback size is something. You know, there's a lot of things that go into the recipe, but I feel like when I was younger I would overvalue the big gun and the big body and all that. And now what I value more than anything, it's just the quarterback's intelligence and the fact that he has these calculations in his head at all times. And it's not obviously just Dak, it's every guy in this league. Mahomes is brilliant at it. Where you are calculating in your head in this situation, how risky do I want to be, how aggressive do I want to be, how damaging would a mistake be here? And so you know, what I love about Dak is, and people say this across the league, this isn't a Bob Sturm opinion. This is held by many, many tape nerds out there. And many of those nerds are also called NFL coaches and GMs where they just say Dak in pre snap is as good as it gets. And he studies the film. He's been through what, 150 starts or whatever it is, and he now knows what you're trying to do against him. And he also knows how to hurt you back. And so if you're going to bring the strong safety off the three by one side, he knows not only how to throw into a blitz, but also where the weaknesses are. Hey, here's a great one. And we saw this all day on Thursday, Kansas City was in cover four a ton. So they're playing quarters coverage. And just to quickly explain quarters coverage, it's four Deep. Right. And so that's why we call it quarters. It's very simple.

[George Dunham]

Which four teams have tried to do against the Cowboys this year.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes, but, but there is a weakness to every coverage and specifically in cover four, if you just do the math, if we're rushing four and there's four deep, that means I only have three other guys to account for. And so there's going to be a weakness shorter. And of course if you play a cover three or a cover one now they're the. Sometimes the weaknesses are deeper and so quarterbacks know this intuitively and so do kids who play Madden all the time. And the way to beat quarters is to hit the flats. And, and you should be able to get yards all the time in the flats if you time it up right because they just, especially if they're bringing blitzes or if they're, if they're doing that double mug, look at the snap and so they got across. Well, those flat defenders are right over the center. They can't get out there in time. And so what the Cowboys game plan was on Thursday, I think if you go rewatch this game and say how many times did the Cowboys hit the guy in the left flat? And it was a different guy every time. It was Williams, it was Turpin, it was CD Lamb, it was Ferguson, you know, but they were populating where the Chiefs couldn't get to in time. And so when Dak sees the blitz, he knows the remedy is let's hit the flat and let CD Lamb go get me 12 yards. Let Kevonte Turpin go get me 19, you know, Flournoy, you know, and so they're not big time throws, they're frankly rather easy throws. And that's the point of a well designed offense is I want to bake in easy solutions for my quarterback. If you ever see a quarterback doing magic tricks, you might say, wow, that's special. But you also might say why is his coach making everything so difficult for him?

[George Dunham]

Yeah, that's a great point.

[Bob Sturm]

The great teams have easy solutions in their offense. And I thought, I thought the Cowboys game plan was well prepared for the Steve Spagnolo blitz package. And I thought they made them pay quite a bit once Dax calmed down and started taking profits. And then the bigger shots become more available as the game goes on.

[George Dunham]

Well, I think that's well said. I think so many times we look for the spectacular in the quarterback. Wow, you see that throw, it was 25 yards downfield and on a line and it, you know, hit the receiver Right in the numbers. And yeah. And sometimes we, we praise them, rightly so. But sometimes over praise, when they're scrambling around desperate and there's a breakdown in coverage and they spot a guy and they throw it to him. Yep, that's a great play. But you are right. Part of the position is knowing, okay, what's going to be open in this particular situation. And once they got through those first couple of drives, man, Dak was just phenomenal. I thought picking apart their defense and they were able to run the ball enough to make Kansas City, I think, respect the run, which makes play action work better.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

And one other offensive play. I don't know how much you've had a chance to look at this. The Malik Davis 43 yard run to put the Cowboys ahead and they never trailed after that moment. A couple of things stood out to me very selfishly about a month ago I pointed out, I don't know if anyone's noticed, but Malik Davis plays with his hair on fire on special teams. I wonder if he's going to start getting a chance and, and if that's going to earn him a chance on the offensive side of the ball. And slowly we've seen him get a few more carries. I'm not suggesting that he and Javante split carries, but man, it is so valuable to have a guy who runs hard.

[Bob Sturm]

Yep.

[George Dunham]

Who, as we said last week, hits it up in there and can play special teams for you. And I just thought that play was awesome. I felt great for Malik Davis that he got a moment like that. And I don't know if you noticed this. Romo talked about it a little bit, that it was a different formation and I guess I hadn't seen the Cowboys go with pistol, a wing and almost an offset pistol with a back and a full back. And Lipke helped spring that.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, it's really interesting. A couple things there. First, on Malik Davis, I. I know you love teams. Who doesn't love special teams? Well, you know what? I think everybody starts watching football and they ignore special teams and then you grow an appreciation for it. And in an NFL roster, if you want to gain the trust of your coaching staff, the first way to do it. Unless you're a first round pick. If you're a first round pick, you don't have to worry about any of the cd Lam never probably had to cover a single kickoff since like middle school. No. But if you are the salt of the earth guy who is on the fringe of a roster spot and you have to bust your tail at training Camp and make sure you don't miss a weight session in February just to make the team. Just, you know, you're on thin ice. You know that you're Malik Davis. I mean, Malik Davis is, what, 27 years old. He's been on the fringes of this roster for several years. And it's like, he's the guy, right? He's the guy who, who you're always saying, man, they must like him. I mean, honestly, Rico Doudo was this guy before Malik Davis was, and that's. That's kind of how football works. But to go back to special teams, that's like the big hurdle for these guys. And remember, every single guy in the NFL probably was the best player in their high school and probably one of the five best players at their university, no matter where they went. And that. And so they aren't always to do special teams. So sometimes their first special teams is in the NFL. And imagine the savages that you run up against in special teams in the NFL. It is not fun, and you're not making any money relative to your NFL teammates. And so you get the least amount of money and the most amount of pain, and it probably sucks a lot, George. And so, anyway, I just wanted to set that up as the Malik Davis path to getting a chance is acting like the 20 snaps a game where you are on special teams, and it's punt coverage and it's punt, you know, return, and it's kick coverage, and it's kick return, and those are all very, very underappreciated spots. But if you go out there and you bust your tail, then you stay on the roster, then they start campaigning for you when, when they need that spot on game day. And you and the, the special teams coach is like, doggone it, I need Malik Davis, guys. You have to make him active. And, and so this is the story of the guy who has toiled for three or four years and gained a reputation versus a guy like Jadon Blue, who is the draft pick. And all the fans love him. I mean, he's a Longhorn. He's. We've watched him score touchdowns this fast. This is so much fun. We've got him. Well, guess what? The coaches don't trust him. The coaches do not necessarily care what he did at Texas. They care what he does every day at practice. And look, I don't know the facts. I don't know if J. Don Bleu, who has, you know, missed meetings or missed assignments. I don't know. I don't know. But I do know that he's inactive every week, and usually that's because the coaches say we can count on this guy and this guy still is learning how to be a pro. And so honestly, these carries, both against the Eagles where, where Malik Davis had a big run, and against the Chiefs where he had a huge run that might have won the game for, you know, you could argue those are because he put credibility and trust in the bank over weeks and months and years and they could not get rid of him. He was always the guy that they said, you know what, Keep him, put him on the practice squad. Let's. Let's talk to him. That if he gets another offer, hey, we still believe in you. We think we've got something here for you. So stay ready. And he stayed ready and he was rewarded for that. So I know that's a digression on Malik Davis that nobody asked for, Georgie, but I think it's important. I think it's important. Now to the play. Boy, I'm long winded. Now to the play.

[George Dunham]

It was Good.

[Bob Sturm]

This is 21 personnel, and this is right out of the Kyle Shanahan playbook. I don't know if you've ever seen Kyle Jus check and George Kittle do this sort of thing, but the. The. But you're right. It's pistol and. And to the right of deck is Hunter Lipke, another job favorite. And then to the right of him as sort of the H back or the what off offset tight end. Yeah, so it's. It's kind of like a diagonal line that goes Malik Davis deep, Hunter Lipke right in front of him to the right. And then Brett span Ford to the ahead of him to the right. So it's this diagonal line. And then span Ford goes and. And Lipke is right behind him. And they're running counter. And usually if they're running counter, it's like a tight end and a guard from the backside and. And the guard will go get the edge and the. The tight end will be sort of a lead blocker. Well, in this case, the, the offensive line doesn't do anything except, you know, block straight ahead. And now the. The edge guy is span forward and the insert lead blocker is Lipke, and Malik Davis just follows them into the hole. So it's basically the reason I mentioned the 49ers is they run counter and power with two skill guys and that's very uncommon. And the Cowboys have stolen it. And I love that they're stealing great ideas from around the league. That's a wonderful plan. And honestly, nothing is original in this league. You can trace everything back to the 40s, probably with a lot of these schemes. And so I say Shanahan, but I'm sure somebody did it way before him. The point is they used two skill guys in Lipke and Span Ford to sort of add a sixth and seventh run blocker to this situation, and that allows Malik Davis just a crack. And honestly, that's all he needs because he runs hard and he blows through that first line and there really isn't a whole lot left besides what I. I guess the safety he has to meet, make the safety miss. And he does very easily. And he's in the end zone. And it's just such a huge play in a very tight game before halftime.

[George Dunham]

It was awesome. And Lipke, yeah, you're right. I like him. He's another devil on special teams and really good blocker. And hey, he's giving them a little juice. And as a receiver, I mean, it's not anything really dynamic, but I think he does a lot of hard work that has made this thing run this week, this year.

[Bob Sturm]

Offensively, we should give Nick Sorensen a little love. I know in the Bones Fossil era we would talk about him all the time, but these last couple weeks are not the same without special teams.

[George Dunham]

Yep.

[Bob Sturm]

And, you know, and this one wasn't necessarily a special teams play, but we just mentioned three special teams players in Spanford Lipked and Malik Davis who get a chance to help the offense and they make the most of it.

[George Dunham]

And returns were okay. Coverage was good as far as teams. And I learned something this week, Bob. The Cowboys did it and another team did this on Sunday. And it's. This is. I guess this will be addressed in the off season. If you score like the Cowboys did and then you get a personal foul or unnecessary roughness or whatever it is on the defense, on the scoring play, you can then obviously kick off from midfield. Then if you don't want to give them a chance at a return, kick it out of bounds and it's at the 25 instead of the 30 or the 35 because it's 25 yards from where the ball was kicked, which is midfield. That's why the Cowboys did that and another team did it on Sunday. It's. It's a bit of a loophole of, okay, we're going to kick from midfield, all right, Just kick it out of bounds and we'll take the penalty. It's. You get, the opponent gets the ball 25 yards from where the ball was kicked. Wow.

[Bob Sturm]

Okay, I like that. So it would have been the 40 if you kick it out of bounds.

[George Dunham]

Instead would have been the 35. Would have been the 35.

[Bob Sturm]

For real.

[George Dunham]

Right.

[Bob Sturm]

I thought if you kicked it out of bounds, it's a 40 and a 15 yard personal fire would take you to the 25. Right?

[George Dunham]

Yes, yes, you are correct. So, okay, it's from where it's kicked to 50, so yeah, just something again. So I didn't know that.

[Bob Sturm]

Thank you.

[George Dunham]

Yeah. So just another little special teams nugget there. A couple more things before we move on the defense in the next segment because I got some. I think defense is a really interesting conversation.

[Bob Sturm]

I do too.

[George Dunham]

But just for the offense, to your point about the offensive line. And I think this also goes into the quick passing game that the Cowboys really started, ironically against Quinn and Williams in the jets game way back when. That's when we, I think, really started seeing this type of attack for the Cowboys. They are third in the NFL and sacks allowed right now only behind Denver and Seattle. That's pretty salty.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

And I give the offensive line credit for that, but also Schottenheimer for this is how we're going to do it. This is how we're going to keep Dak upright. And I give Dak obviously a lot of credit too for getting rid of the ball and sometimes that means throwing, throwing it wherever, you know.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, that's to me. And I've definitely evolved on this over the years too, where, where people started saying long before I believed them that, that sacks are a quarterback stat. And, and I'm like, well, yeah, then why are we paying our left tackle everything we pay him? And why are we drafting in the first round all these guys? And so there's nuance to it. I don't believe it's fully a quarterback stat and I don't believe it' an offensive line stat. But I do know that if you look year after year after year and you know, it's, it's interesting, there are, there are hall of Fame quarterbacks who are no longer in our sport and Rogers will join this group very soon. But they, I think if you go back and study their careers, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees, that's probably a great triumphant of. Of, of Mount Rushmore caliber quarterback play that we could study each of them and study them collectively and say, what can we learn from these careers? And I think all three of them were so brilliant at not allowing you to destroy their game plan with pass rush. And I Just, I. I don't believe that that was because they had great offensive lines. I do believe it's because they knew the best way to play a long career is to not get killed. And I know that sounds obvious, but it's the old the doctor. You know, you tell the doctor it hurts when I do this. And so he says, well, don't do that then. And that's, you know, that's so obvious. But do you know?

[George Dunham]

So.

[Bob Sturm]

So how do you move an offense down the field and score points if you're trying to preserve your health? And we used to, like, challenge. Like, does this quarterback have the stones to play quarterback? If he's worried about getting hit, Maybe he's not an NFL quarterback. And Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and Drew Brees, I think, taught us, no. The best level of quarterback play is to do both. And maybe they didn't learn this in time for, like, Staubach and Terry Bradshaw, because those guys got the heck beat out of them a lot of times. And Troy Aikman did, too. But as we've evolved in this sport, you know, this goes back to easy solutions for a quarterback. And if the best way to beat a blitz is not to block the blitzers, but to leak out the running back and dink it over the blitzer's head and let the running back go get you seven or eight yards, and then they're like, man, this guy is frustrating us because every time we try to blitz, they get a free eight yards. Well, then that backs the blitz off. So it's like blitz prevention is these solutions. And it's also health benefit to a quarterback who could play past his 40th birthday. So, yeah, I think Dak is so good at that now. And there's only been, like, one game where he's been sacked a lot. Was that. Was that the Arizona game or the Denver game? I'm trying to remember.

[George Dunham]

Seems like that was really bad.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, I think so. But, yeah. Okay, so he has been sacked one time or less in week one against Philly, week four against Micah, week five against the jets, week six against Carolina, week seven against Washington and Dan Quinn. Week, I guess. Oh, 11 against Las Vegas, one time, 12 against Philadelphia, one time, zero against Kansas City. The one time he got killed was the Arizona game. Five sacks. Denver got him choice. The Bears got him choice. The Giants got him three times, but zero or one. And these teams are trying everything to slow down CD And George Pickens. And, you know, they do know that pass rush makes sense. I mean, Micah Parsons does still know how to rush the passer. And trust me, he wanted to get to Dak all night and Dak would not let him ruin their game. And same when he went to Denver. And you know, Philadelphia has had plans twice. Philadelphia in two games against Dak Prescott have sacked him one time total.

[George Dunham]

That's incredible.

[Bob Sturm]

Steve Spagnolo got him zero times. And. And so Dak is just playing this game at a high level. And then CD Lamb and George Pickens are such studs. And the CD redemption game if he needed one. George, I know we talked about this last week. We neither of us had any concerns about Lamb coming back, but Lamb had a huge game. They were both, they were both challenged. And this gets them ready for Detroit because Kansas City and Detroit believe in a similar type of defense in terms of press. And they will, they will try to keep you from getting out of your release. And people think they can press CD Lamb because he's not that big and strong. Trust me, you cannot press CD Lamb. And McDuffie tried. McDuffie's stud and CD went right at him. And Jalen Watson's not bad. And George Pickens went right at him. So I think that performance gives me hope up in Detroit that what Detroit insists on doing, playing that super aggressive pass defense, I don't know that it works real well against these guys.

[George Dunham]

Well, to that point, I got a number about CD and George to give you. Not me, but George Pickens. And I'll do that when we talk about the matchup with the Lions here in a little bit. We got to talk some defense, Bob, because I got a number for you on the defense that I think is proof that the last three weeks is just plain old different with this Cowboys defense. And we'll do that when the Musers. The podcast Cowboys edition continues in a moment.

[Bob Sturm]

Next Roll with Vernon Davis.

[George Dunham]

The transformative journeys of athletes, artists and entrepreneurs. We have very special guests.

[Bob Sturm]

Ladies and gentlemen, Devon Franklin.

[George Dunham]

Whether it's the movies I'm doing, whether.

[Bob Sturm]

It'S TV shows, just tap into the truth. That's what I bring to every project. Ladies and gentlemen, Isaac Keys. People always ask, how did you make it to the NFL? How did you get into acting? There's a story behind all of that. It's about whether you're willing to tell your story or not.

[George Dunham]

Next Roll isn't about what's next. It's about why they do it.

[Bob Sturm]

Next Roll with Vernon Davis.

[George Dunham]

Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Football season is in full swing, and underdog is the best place to get in on all the action. Whether you're into basketball, football, hockey, any sport, underdog is the place you just player and then go higher or lower on stats like rushing yards, receptions, touchdowns and more. Get your picks right and you can win up to 5,000 times your cash. This week I took the higher on Jackson darts 203.5 passing yards and we'll get them next week. Download the app today. Sign up with the promo code Musers to score a hundred dollars in bonus entries when you play your first $5. That's musers on underdog make picks win money must be 18 or older, 19 or older in Alabama and Nebraska, 19 or older in Colorado for some games, 21 or older in Arizona, Massachusetts and Virginia and present in a state where underdog fantasy operates. Terms apply. See assets.underdogfantasy.com web play and getterms dfs HTML for details. Offer not valid in Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Ohio or Pennsylvania. Concerned with your play? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit www.ncpgambling.org In New York, call the 24.7Hope Line at 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY or 67369. Okay Cowboys and Lions Thursday Night Football Back to back Thursday night games. Let's hope it's better than the last time these two teams met at AT&T Stadium when the Lions shellack the Cowboys 47 to 9. Bob, it seemed like it was worse than that. Yeah, but our friend Edward told me that is still the worst home loss since Jerry has owned the team 47 to nine last year by the Lions. It was the crazy game that came down to the final couple of plays the year before. Yeah, that was the tackle eligible play.

[Bob Sturm]

Oh man.

[George Dunham]

Did he check in or did he not? I'm thinking we see a little more like that on Thursday night against the Lions. Okay, the Cowboys defense last three weeks to the eye. It's been better. The results have been better. A three game winning streak despite the tragedy on the team that they've been dealing with, the loss of Marshawn Nealon. But Quinn and Williams comes to town, demarvi and Overshone gets back on the field. You get a new linebacker. The safeties are back, some corners are playing that really haven't played much. And all of a sudden this is a reworked defense. And here's some, here's some statistical proof of it. Okay, Number one, they're moving up in just about every category. We're in the they're in the 20s now and just about Just about all of them, Just about all defensive categories. So we're moving in the right direction. This to me is the big one. The last three games on third down, the Cowboys have been ninth best at 35%. And you think, okay, that's, that's pretty good. It could, if it was dominant, it could be better. But that's, that's a big jump, Bob. From weeks one through 10.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

Where they were 52.6%, which was dead last in the league. So it's a three week sample, shorter sample than 10 weeks. But over those three weeks, they've been a top 10 defense on third down, where they were dead last in the first games they played without Quinn and Williams in the bunch.

[Bob Sturm]

Okay, this is awesome because you're not going to believe this. I just spent two hours on this very topic and wrote about it this morning. And I am prepared to talk third down defense with you. We are on the exact same page. I love this.

[George Dunham]

Now, I would also guess that third down has a relationship to what they're doing against first and second down runs.

[Bob Sturm]

Oh, yeah. Oh, 100%. That's, that's a, that's a great observation, but I want to go back to 52.6. So 52.6 was where the Cowboys were at the bye week on third down.

[George Dunham]

Which is ridiculous, by the way. That is a terrible number.

[Bob Sturm]

Beyond ridiculous. Not only were they 32nd in the league, but they were a distant 32nd. And, and they remained 30 despite all these improvements because they were so distantly 32nd in third down defense. But I bet you're asking, is that, where does that rank in all time Cowboys history? It's the worst. What does it rank? What does it rank at all time? NFL history?

[George Dunham]

It's gotta be. I would guess I'm going to be conservative and say top 10 worst.

[Bob Sturm]

According to my research, if they would have stayed at 52.6, it would have been the worst third down defense of all time. Okay.

[George Dunham]

Oh my gosh.

[Bob Sturm]

All right, a little more context. The worst in Cowboys history before this year was 46.9. So again, that's a long ways from 52.6. But 46.9 was the Mike Nolan year in 2020, that was very, very, very bad. And then in 2021, you may recall that they drafted Micah Parsons. And I know this makes people angry, but from 2021 to 2024, they were the second best third down defense in the NFL. And yes, that is a Micah Parsons stat. And that's why you pay a pass rusher because on third down, pass rushers do two things. They either sack the quarterback or. Or they scare the opponent into not even trying. And that's why you get third down draw plays. And third down, you know, just absolutely do not let the pass rusher kill us. And so it's. It's basically preventative, right? It's.

[George Dunham]

It's.

[Bob Sturm]

It's not even a stat. It's. You have them terrified. Like my. My favorite Micah moment in a Cowboys uniform is probably the game where Kirk Cousins was ready just to take a knee every play because he was tired of Micah harassing him. And Kirk Cousins was absolutely, you know, just trying to. To walk out of whatever their. Their new stadium bank.

[George Dunham]

Bank of them. That's not bank of America. It's bank something one.

[Bob Sturm]

I don't know. Anyway, so. So. So the. The Cowboys were 46.9 in 2020. They got Micah and for four straight years they were the best in the league besides Cleveland, who has the other generational pass rusher and Miles Garrett. There's a connection here. And then the second he leaves, they go back to being the worst in franchise history. So it is a Micah Parsons stat. But Micah doesn't live here anymore. If you saw on Thanksgiving, he still affects third down, but it's not for you. And that's fine. You got to go on. It's time to find your new world, your new identity. And the Cowboys, as you said, are now 13 for 37 in the three weeks post Quinn and trade post bye week. And this was going to be the big test, right, Because Geno Smith doesn't really make anyone too scared. And the Eagles are the Eagles. But this is the maestro of third downs. This is the best of the best. This is Patrick Mahomes. And I thought overall and there were a couple third downs that were just goofy from the chief standpoint. So they went five of 13. One of them was Patrick Mahomes running for 16 yards on third and 14. And if you looked at that play over shown gets. I guess he get. He fell for a Mahomes little trick where he's spying Mahomes. But Mahomes sort of hides behind Creed Humphrey and fakes one way and Overshone took a false step. And then Mahomes was able to run for. For 16 yards and move the chains. Very frustrating to. To allow a scramble on third and 14 to beat you, but he's Mahomes. And then another of their five conversions was that insane play at the end of the game where Quinnnin and. And Ezraku I think both almost have Mahomes sacked and he stumbles and he put down, I think to keep his balance and then gets up and hits Xavier worthy for like 50 yards.

[George Dunham]

So I was sometimes, I won't say typical Mahomes, vintage Mahomes. How about that? Well, that's him at his Mahomes best.

[Bob Sturm]

Sometimes Curry's going to hit a logo 3 and you're just going to say, you know, there's no defense for that. But otherwise, I, I, I love the I. First of all, I love the fact that the Cowboys have found their, their best pass rush. They, you started to see it as the game went on. They put guys out there on the defensive line to say this is an important pass rush. And it was ezraku quinn and osa jadavian clowney. So, and that's been consistent. 41, 92, 97, 42. That's been their defensive line in these big, big, big moments. And, and Clowney's big sack there to start that last Chiefs drive. Those were the four, and those were also the four on that crazy third down throw. And so I like the fact that the Cowboys are starting to find combinations that they're willing to roll with.

[George Dunham]

And Clowny sack earlier in the game, by the way, Bob, was something I don't think we've seen this year. A coverage sack.

[Bob Sturm]

Okay, I was going to say a sun sack. I thought, when I looked at that, I thought, okay, Mahomes just was blinded by the sun.

[George Dunham]

Okay.

[Bob Sturm]

But you might be right. It might have been a covered sack too.

[George Dunham]

Coverage of the sun and coverage in the secondary was actually decent.

[Bob Sturm]

There were two trademark sun plays in the game. One was a brilliant Dak escape where he threw it to Pickens and Pickens can't see the ball and it lands at his feet. And the other one was three minutes later, the sun is still shining and Mahomes is, I think, is blinded. And that, that was that sack. But, but, but honestly, five for 13 now they needed, they needed a break. And I wonder, you know, when we say what, how does the game turn out differently if it wasn't for this one play and you picked that CD Lamb breakup of, of what could have been an interception. I think mine will be offensive pass interference. No. What happens if Rasheed Rice doesn't drop that third and eight at midfield in the, in the fourth quarter? There, you know, there's, there's that that stopped their drive and at that point it's 28, 21 and they have to punt it back. I mean, Mahomes does everything but hand it to Rasheed Rice. And Rice was great. Of course he's had a big year.

[George Dunham]

But you know what I saw in that play though, in the Rice drop?

[Bob Sturm]

What?

[George Dunham]

There was a lot of traffic around him and he seems to have a hard time in Dallas. Traffic?

[Bob Sturm]

Heck yeah.

[George Dunham]

I have been saving that one all week. I meant to use it on Monday and I didn't do it, so I used it on the podcast just for you, Bob.

[Bob Sturm]

That's beautiful. That's. Well, that's for the people, really. It's just for all the football.

[George Dunham]

That's for all of us.

[Bob Sturm]

But, but 28, 21, he drops that third down. Huge moment that really, I'm not positive the Cowboys deserve much credit there. They have to punt it. And that's when the Cowboys go get the two score lead. And, and I just, I just wonder, you know, do they go tie that game at 28 all and you know, how does it change? And then of course, the best defense, as we described the defense, the best defense is have your 4 minute offense never let Mahomes back on the field at 31, 28. And so complimentary football. I don't know, is it like this is a, this is a game that you have to grade on a curve defensively because they got to Mahomes three times, but there were no takeaways. The Chiefs had a lot of big plays, but you got off the field on a lot of third downs, especially from late second to early fourth. You. The Chiefs were a punt machine. The Chiefs punted five times in six possessions there in that stretch of the game. And that allowed you to get going. And then really, I think your other measure would be judging the Chiefs offensive production against the Chiefs. And I think you held them about 20 yards below their season average. And I think you have to say, I'll take that. You know, and it's weird because you said you take them a little more seriously than the Eagles and I agree with you, but the Eagles were the 1 seed until this weekend and the Chiefs are like the 10 seed and probably are going to miss the playoffs now. But, but I agree with you because the Chiefs were playing a we must win this game situation and the Cowboys were able to beat them. Yeah, the, the other stat real fast as we're throwing stuff out here, and I think you'd like this as well, was, was they beat Mahomes in a Mahomes masterpiece. I thought, I thought Mahomes was Fantastic.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

Four touchdowns, no picks, passer rating of 130 and 2. Two stats here according to stat head. This is the 22nd time of his career where he had a passer rating that high and he was 20 and 1. And also in games where he has a pass rating over 125 and 0 interceptions which he had, he Mahomes had been 23 and all time and now he's 23 and 1. And now you flip it around to the Cowboys. When the Cowboys play a quarterback who throws four touchdowns and a passer rating of at least 125 in franchise history. So since 1960, the Cowboys have lit 24 quarterbacks. Do this to them. Four touchdowns, pass rating of 125 or higher. The Cowboys have done it twice this season. I'll give you a cookie if you can name the other quarterback who did it. Four touchdowns in a pass rate of.

[George Dunham]

125 and 0 and they won the game.

[Bob Sturm]

The other team did.

[George Dunham]

All the other team did. Was it Brissette?

[Bob Sturm]

It was Caleb.

[George Dunham]

Oh, it was Caleb.

[Bob Sturm]

Caleb.

[George Dunham]

That's right. He got two freebies as start.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes, he did. Yes, he did. 24 times it's happened. The Cowboys are now 20 or 2 and 22. They beat Mahomes. And the other guy they beat was in the watermelon kick game, which we've referenced Atlanta.

[George Dunham]

Okay?

[Bob Sturm]

Matt Ryan had four touchdowns and a hu day and somehow lost that game 40 to 39. So everybody else on this list, I'll give you some names who are on this list who have beat the Cowboys with four touchdowns and a pass rate of 125. Caleb did it. Brock Purdy did it on Sunday night a couple years ago. Russell Wilson did it in that 2020 Mike Nolan season along with Matt Ryan. By the way, those were in consecutive weekends. Then the Monty Kiffin year, Drew Brees did it on Sunday night at the Superdome. Josh McCown somehow did it against the Cowboys up at Soldier Field for the Bears, Josh McCown. Peyton Manning, of course, did it in the 51, 48 game. RG3, did it on Thanksgiving of 2012. And then to speed through this list, you have Brett Favre for the Vikings, you have Tom Brady and 07 at Texas Stadium. And what we know is we were there in the Grego game, as I recall. Let's see, we have Drew Brees at Texas Stadium in 06. We were also there for that one. And then further down the list, don Makowski in 1989 up at Lambeau. Bart Starr did it twice, including the 1966 championship game at Fair Park. And Ya tittle. Johnny Unitis and Bobby Lane Unites and lane both in 1960 against the Cowboys.

[George Dunham]

Holy smokes. That is a list there. That is some research there, too. Yeah, that's why we need a podcast like this, so Bob can spread his wings. And as he once told a legendary cowboy, Rayfield Wright spread his legs. That's another story. We'll get to that at some point. But that's Bob at his best right there.

[Bob Sturm]

I'm doing a stretch mine.

[George Dunham]

All right, we got one more little segment here and let's talk about the Lions game. I think it comes down to one big thing and let's talk about that next.

[Bob Sturm]

Close your eyes, exhale. Feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts.

[George Dunham]

In time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast.

[Bob Sturm]

And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry.

[George Dunham]

Namaste.

[Bob Sturm]

Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts. Thursday Night Football is on, and it's only on Prime Video.

[George Dunham]

Wide open. Touchdown. This week, the Dallas College the Cowboys.

[Bob Sturm]

And Detroit Lions face off in a high octane clash. Look at this. It's on the money. Coverage begins at 7pm Eastern with football's best party, TNF tonight presented by Verizon. Not a Prime member. Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial.

[George Dunham]

It's the Cowboys and lions Thursday at.

[Bob Sturm]

7Pm Eastern only on Prime Video. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.

[George Dunham]

We have Cowboys and Lions on Thursday Night Football. That's why we're dropping this a little early to talk Cowboys with our football friends around the world here on the Musers, the podcast Cowboys edition. Did you know, Bob, that on Thursday night, since the NFL started doing this and making it a regular event in 2006, the Cowboys are 9 and 2 and since it moved to prime, they're 3 and.

[Bob Sturm]

Oh, wow.

[George Dunham]

And the Cowboys are also 30 in their last three games.

[Bob Sturm]

Maybe it's herbs headed into Detroit somehow.

[George Dunham]

Okay, there's a lot of nuance to this game, but to me, this will tell the story of the game. Detroit leads the NFL in running the football as far as yards per carry. I do believe it's right at five. And Jameer Gibbs is in combined with Montgomery. They're so good at running the ball.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

How improved are the Cowboys against the run? Because Kansas City had a little success when they ran it with Kareem Hunt and, and Pacheco. They had some success. Philly really didn't have much of any. They didn't try it that much with Saquon Barkley. I think the Cowboys are going to get a snoot full of Gibbs on Thursday night. How do they handle that? And can they. Because if they can stuff it, but man, I think that just shoots the wheels right off of Detroit.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, no, there's, there's no doubt. And the way they ran it against the Giants was phenomenal. The packers did a little bit better job. They weren't going to let Gibbs beat them. And I thought it was interesting that Dan Campbell has really sort of minimized David Montgomery and that's, I don't know. I mean, the Lions aren't quite right and, and I don't know what your theory is on the Lions and how much you fear them right now, but when I really, really feared the lions, especially in 23 and, and into 24, it felt like Gibbs was maybe a little underutilized and they were leaning into more of the power of Montgomery. And I, I think it's clear Gibbs is the better player. That's not the issue. I think the issue is one is more of a run to daylight Elvin Camara type guy and then one is kind of brings the, brings the boom, as you might say. And that's, you know, more Montgomery. And you know, obviously they're in a weird spot right now because no Laporta has hurt them and now no Saint Brown. And so all of their pass game is going to Jameson Williams, which would be the equivalent with the Cowboys of not having, let's say Novacek or Irvin out there. And so you're kind of trying to make Alvin Harper your go to guy. And I don't mean to, I don't mean to insult Jameson Williams with that comp, but I'm just telling you he's much better as our over the top guy, not as our volume guy. Right. Yeah.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

And so, yeah, they're not. I don't know, man. They're not. Right. And their offensive line isn't the same.

[George Dunham]

No. And their play caller is not the same. So much so that Dan Campbell took it over. I think he misses Ben Johnson pushing the envelope on the offensive side. And I always, I was under the impression that Aaron Glenn was maybe the weak link in that triangle of Campbell and Glenn and Johnson, but I think he's a good defensive coach. I think they miss him. I, I think Campbell had it right when he had Johnson running the offense with his input and his aggressiveness and his mindset.

[Bob Sturm]

I don't know.

[George Dunham]

But the whole, hey, I'm going to call the whole game. I don't know if that's Dan Campbell. You know him better than me. What do you think?

[Bob Sturm]

Well, yeah, I see the thing you have to bake in and this is difficult, of course, because, you know, debates don't go this way. But Ben Johnson's last year in Detroit, they, I think they played pretty much the same 11 guys the entire season. And by losing Rag now and letting Zeitler go and, you know, now the injuries have hit their skill guys. They still have the two tackles. Decker and Sewell are still very nice, but man guard, center guard, they haven't been right all year for as far as I'm concerned. And Goff is a guy, and this is where the Cowboys have a real chance on Thursday night to disrupt is Goff is a guy who does not do well under pressure. He with a clean pocket. I think he's unbelievable and I really do. I mean, you want to talk about Drew Brees is a little, is a little much. But in terms of just. This guy can put the ball anywhere he wants. He can, he can break a dinner plate from 30 yards. He can do all the things of accuracy and you know, when he's in his comfort zone, he's a dude. But if you can get that interior push which we know Quinn and osa, Ken and Kenny Clark, then, then it, it gets muddy fast and he does not like that. And, and so the entire Lions offense is struggling right now because they can't get back into that comfort zone where everybody is so freaked out about their run game that suddenly now they can hit him with, with play action over the top and, and, and they can just cut you in so many ways. So there's no question losing Ben Johnson hurts, but I also wonder what would Ben Johnson be able to fully come up with if I took two key offensive linemen away and then your two most precious volume receivers in St. Brown and LaPorta, I mean, you're up a creek without a paddle a little bit. And so, so I think that helps. And then, you know, again, the way they played that Thanksgiving game and I realized that one is short rest and it's against Green Bay, which is a different animal than Dallas with a full week. But man, that Dallas, that Detroit defense, the Aiden Hutchinson did not even look like he played in that game and they're paying him Micah's contract. Like they have like the exact same contract. And, and I, I, people in Detroit will say we did. We have not done a good job getting Aiden Hutchinson a bookend. And to me, I still need Aiden Hutchinson to produce at a super high level in these big games and I can't have him go up against Zach Tom and hardly be heard from. And so I'm sure the packers were trying to get the ball out fast and not let him wreck the game. But that's a weird deal is to say we need a second pass rusher to help our guy that we're giving 47 million to. That's not how that works. I mean, we know this here in Dallas. Micah was productive whether he had a bookend or not. And you know that. It's a weird conversation, but they just don't look the same. And they're kind of the NFC's version of Kansas City right now. Except Kansas City has a guy named Patrick Mahomes that should scare you no matter what. And Detroit does not have the superstar guy who can carry you unless it is Jameer Gibbs breaking things, you know, completely open like he did against the.

[George Dunham]

Giants on the other side. It's really going to be interesting. As you mentioned, they play a lot of man to man. They try to be physical on the outside. Detroit does. This is the number is going to give you on CD Lamb and George Pickens.

[Bob Sturm]

Okay.

[George Dunham]

The Cowboys lead the NFL in drawing defensive pass interference. It has now happened 17 times this year. Lamb leads the way, which is surprising, having drawn 10 pass interference calls. Pickens, whose perception, as he does in every game, he has drawn five. How the game is called I think will be interesting and how much they allow Detroit to, you could say, get away with or just play they way the way they want to play. That's really going to be interesting. And as you, you pointed out, hey, be careful. If you press these guys, you may get burned.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. And by the way, Detroit is one of those teams and you know, in basketball we see this all the time. And in fact, I think those old Pistons teams were great at it. If you follow every play. They're not going to call them all.

[George Dunham]

That's right.

[Bob Sturm]

And so it's actually a good strategy. And you know, there were plenty of plays on Thanksgiving, including a very critical third down where they're absolutely holding down one of Christian Watson's arms as the ball arrives. And that, you know, they didn't call it like you're like, how do you guys not call when. When the corner is handcuffing the guy where he can't even lift his arms to go, you know, catch the. Catch the pass. But you. It's actually a great strategy. Yeah. Now, from a standpoint of the Cowboys, I saw Chiefs fans online talking about how the league wants the Cowboys to win, which. Which. Which makes us all laugh because we're convinced the league wants the Cowboys to lose. And, you know, football season makes everybody mentally ill, I think, at times. But. But regardless, I'll tell you, teams don't know how to defend CD Lamb and George Pickens. It's too much.

[George Dunham]

It's.

[Bob Sturm]

It's too much talent. And then Schottenheimer's using the complimentary guys as. As, you know, beneficiaries of decoys. And so Kevonte Turpin is now being used wonderfully, and it just feels like, you know, Jake Ferguson is starting to really look comfortable and break out. They. They did not give unbelievable touchdown on the seam last week, but. Because he didn't get his second foot down. But what a. What a play that was. And that should really get everybody fired up. And Javante's been great. The point is the Cowboys have now figured out their offense, and I realize saying that with too much gusto might lead them to a horrible game, but I'm willing to say they. They really understand the spatial advantages that Pickens and Lamb are causing. And then almost like a, you know, Shay Gilgis Alexander situation where people are saying, you. You call everything on this guy. Well, you're following him every time he gets the ball. And. And that's what's going on with Lamb and Pickens because you're. You're stretched so thin that your DBs are feeling desperation because they know if I let him catch him, he can spin one time, and he's off to the races for a touchdown. They both do it. They both are yak monsters. And so these guys are assaulting them before the ball arrives and hoping that the ref won't call them all. And the Cowboys are rightfully taking advantage of it by continuing to put pressure on the refs by throwing the ball into those tight coverages because they know Ceedee and Pickens are winning those physical battles. Man, I have all the respect in the world for the way CD Lamb fights for the football. I know Pickens will do it because he's just a big, powerful ox who will do that sort of thing. But Lamb, for his size, people don't understand how strong he is. At the catch point. And I think the Chiefs now know and whether the Cowboys can do that again against the Lions. I'm telling you, I saw the packers do it and now I'm interested in the Cowboys doing the same thing in the same stadium one week later. Because you know you can win against these guys, but they are going to challenge you. So you better be ready to, to have a physical, physical fight.

[George Dunham]

The Cowboys will be wearing the bad luck blue, Bob, if that means anything to you. Detroit's going to be in white on Thursday night. I don't know if that means anything, but it's an interesting fit look anyway. And okay, it's one thing to beat the Raiders, then beat the Eagles, who are, there's something wrong with them now you beat the Chiefs.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

This team wins against the Lions. We've got us a situation here, don't we?

[Bob Sturm]

If they went against the Lions, I believe their playoff probabilities will shoot through the roof. I know we've resisted the conversation, but I, I think we're getting to a point where it's now riding a lot on Thursday. Now if you, if you lose Thursday, not over, it can still happen. It's still, the probabilities will still be in the 40s, but if you win on Thursday, I think you'll see the probabilities shoot into the 70s to 80% and, and that, I mean, gosh, what team in this league can say we beat the Eagles, Chiefs and Lions in a, you know, 10 day period? Or when it's definitely not 10 day period period. Let's say 12.

[George Dunham]

Yes.

[Bob Sturm]

I mean, it's crazy. Yeah, it's, it's, how about this? It's crazy, George, to assume they could go three and oh, through this gauntlet and then, you know, obviously there will still be tough games, but that next game will be 10 days rest for the Vikings here. And the Vikings aren't playing very good football. I don't know if you've noticed, given that, you know, touchdowns have been extremely rare these last couple weeks for them. And, and then the Chargers and then the Commanders and Giants to, to end the year. Don't let the Cowboys get into the playoffs. They will definitely be the team nobody wants to deal with.

[George Dunham]

Absolutely. But to get there, they got to take care of some business, starting with the Lions on Thursday night. We'll be back next week to talk about it. And we'll also be able to talk about Hard Knocks NFC East. Bob.

[Bob Sturm]

Oh, baby. That's tonight, isn't it?

[George Dunham]

That's all Tuesday night as we Tape this? Yes. But man. Okay. Do I overinflate Hard Knocks? Yes.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

To most people. To you. I don't because me and Bob see it the same way. It's like the greatest show ever made.

[Bob Sturm]

That's right.

[George Dunham]

I would like to say when they do the divisional show in season, I don't think you can beat that. I thought last year's AFC north was like the greatest thing I've ever seen on tv.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, it was pretty good, wasn't it? And yeah, the in season still has legs. I get a little worried when they try to cover four teams at the same time. But, but we'll, we'll give it our. I mean, I think the Cowboys look.

[George Dunham]

At this division this year though. Could we have a Philadelphia meltdown that's being covered in real time and Washington step back, whatever that disaster was in New York. And then the Cowboys always make for good theater.

[Bob Sturm]

No, you're right. You're right. That's def. That definitely has to be must see tv. So let's do that.

[George Dunham]

Okay, that's great. Let's do that. And let's thank Peter. He did it again, produced us just amazing. Let's see what happens between Cowboys and Lions and let's talk about it again next week on the the podcast. Cowboys edition Football friends, The United States.

[Bob Sturm]

Soccer Federation presents the U.S. soccer Podcast.

[George Dunham]

This is the show where we bring you in depth interviews with U.S. soccer stars. This time, Sam Coffey.

[Bob Sturm]

The World cup is in two years. Is it time yet? Like, can we get back in into camp?

[George Dunham]

Tim Ream. We're going to continue to show other countries we're not going to be pushed around. And Jedi Robinson, every time you come back and you put the jersey on, it means more and more each time. So we'll be back here with all the best stories.

[Bob Sturm]

The U.S. soccer Podcast.

[George Dunham]

We've got a lot to talk about.

[Bob Sturm]

Follow and listen on your favorite platform.