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- [00:00]
Bob Sturm
Foreign.
- [00:05]
George Dunham
The podcast Cowboys edition with your football friends George Dunham and Bob Stern. Cowboys with the bye week and a trip to Las Vegas this coming Monday night to take on the Raiders. And usually the bye week is a time for a team to heal up, to refocus in the Cowboys case, work in some new players via trade. But Bob, we had no idea this was in store for this team. And just the saddest of news late last week and now they have to move forward with their season and somehow try to gather themselves to take this trip to play the Raiders. Because late last week we know the story of Marshawn Nealon tragically committing suicide second year defensive end from Western Michigan at the age of 24. The story is just sad beyond words. And we can talk about Marshawn the player. Not that we knew him well, but I do remember this. There's so many things that have just stood out here in the last week. We both have kids, we both have sons and I went to visit my 25 year old son and in my oldest son this past weekend and you know, I talked about this event with them and I just, you know, we just kind of talked it out, just, man, can you believe. So young. And there's, you know, this is somebody your age doing this. And you know, they've known some who've had their struggles at, in their 20s and I don't know, just like anyone else, I've had this empty feeling, this pit in my stomach since the story broke and, and that's just us on the periphery. You could only imagine what Cowboy players and coaches have been through since they heard the news last week.
- [02:03]
Bob Sturm
Yeah, just on every level, it's awful. And you know, even those of us in this position, so we're, we're fairly removed from, from the locker room and from the roster and any sort of real friendship with, with most of the key people, you know, in his inner circle. And it's just, it's heartbreaking for us.
- [02:25]
Corby Davidson
And, and maybe more so it's, it's.
- [02:27]
Bob Sturm
Awkward to even discuss at any sort of public level. Like, like we know what they deal with because we don't. And we know what life is like on the inside because we don't. And you're right, we both have sons of a certain age that match up with Marshawn in, in a sense that, you know, as dads, as, as men, as guys who dabbled in athletics and just all this, you know, it's, it's this constant discussion of man up, let's see some spine let's see some toughness. Dig in when things get tough and all of this. And, and unfortunately that's, that's great in theory, but it's not necessarily great in reality at all times to basically get us all to act like we're Iron man and, and nothing can, can hurt our armor and nothing can get inside our head. And, and so, you know, I, I, I know, I know this. The further we go as a society into, you know, kind of connecting with people we don't know through like the online world where they can get to us. And then we marvel at somebody like Kevin Durant who, who is online and wants to lash back at people who call him names. And we're like, well, what motivates somebody to do that? And the reality is I don't think our brains and our exterior and our armor were made to be this connected. And part of that is a new awareness about mental fragility and the fact that it's okay to have fear feelings even if you are a muscle bound man who could probably win any personal fight that you come across in life. But it's, sometimes it's the one between the ears and, you know, what are you dealing with and what's okay to admit before your bosses look at you differently because you're in a combat, you know, life sort of, you know, not to, not to make these guys into soldiers, but just look at the other night. I was lucky enough to be on an NFL field in warmups and you're just there at the, at the, at.
- [04:47]
Corby Davidson
Ground zero of what these guys do.
- [04:49]
Bob Sturm
For a living and you just, you just marvel at what it must take and the pain and just everything these guys go through. And yeah, the payday's unbelievable, but, but the, the, I don't know, the exterior, it can be misleading I guess is what I'm saying, George, because inside we're all, we're, we're all just trying to make a path and take care of those that we love. And unfortunately, it takes moments like this for us to recognize that our fellow man is in fact a fellow man who is not invincible in life. Does that make sense?
- [05:24]
George Dunham
We're all very fragile. We're all partly broken. Yeah, we all have our problems.
- [05:30]
Bob Sturm
We all just want to be loved and accepted.
- [05:32]
Corby Davidson
Right?
- [05:32]
George Dunham
Yeah, that's all we want. And yeah, just, just a few other things that I know you can relate to. I just remember when he was drafted and I don't keep up with the board like you do, but I, for some reason this stands out in my Head. I remember talking to a cowboy scout that we both know and have known for a long time, and he was really excited about Marshawn Nealon. You know, he is. His arrow was up.
- [06:01]
Corby Davidson
He.
- [06:02]
George Dunham
He scored well at the combine. And if you look back at his numbers at Western Michigan, they weren't spectacular, but they just as body type, his personality. They really thought they had found someone here in the second round, you know, that maybe had first round talent. And I just. And I remember being excited. I didn't even know the kid at the time, but I remember thinking, wow.
- [06:24]
Ad Read Announcer
Wouldn'T it be great if he went from Western Michigan?
- [06:26]
George Dunham
And, you know, he's about to start a Pro bowl career with the. With the Cowboys, and, you know, all we know is what we've seen the last year and a half, and it's just, you know, there's that part of it that whether you're playing football or whether you're doing, you know, research, whatever your job is, it shouldn't end at 24. There's so much life, you know, ahead of you. And it just. That stayed with me all. All week.
- [06:52]
Bob Sturm
Yeah. Yeah. And it's. It's the. It's the human hurdle, or, excuse me, maybe the bar that we're all trying to get to in life as feeling like we're successful. And there are different ways to measure that, but, of course, the ultimate dream for so many of us was to be a pro and to be good enough at a game that we could get to professional athletics and be the best of the best of the best. And with that comes the ability to be rich. And with that becomes the ability to be famous and as, like, high school kids. That sounds like the trifecta of everything you want in life is, wow. I'll be. I'll be an elite athlete who is both rich and famous, and that will be my Valhalla. I will, you know, I will never ask for anything else. And unfortunately, you know, with that comes an enormous burden of, I don't know, that. That can, I suppose, mess with you. Where. Where the. The. The amount of money in your bank does not fulfill you at all. And. And the. The. The fact that people want your autograph does not fulfill you. And. And, you know, just again, I'm.
- [08:05]
Corby Davidson
I'm from the age, and you are, too, George.
- [08:08]
Bob Sturm
Where. Where even mental fragility is. Is. It elicits an eye roll. Right? And. And, you know, and I'm happy that our sons are in a universe where it's okay not to be okay. That's the amazing phrase that one of these companies came up with to sort of describe the mental battle that everybody fights, no matter who they are, no matter how famous they are, no matter how successful they are, it's okay not to be okay and to admit it and to seek somebody to talk to and just open up and. And anyway, you know, I think about him and what led Marshawn down this path, and I definitely think of how optimistic we were about his future and probably how the Cowboys put out a heartbreaking video in the last day or two of just all of the fun times with Marshawn and, you know, even.
- [09:05]
Corby Davidson
Think about the bye week and the.
- [09:06]
Bob Sturm
Guys coming back into the facility. And we talked with Daryl Johnston on our radio show about, you know, the Cowboys dealing with it coming off a bye week, and maybe it's. Maybe it's a good time to sort of get away, but at the same time, they have to attend a funeral, probably, and then they got to go back to work, and part of that is film study, and they're going to see Marshawn everywhere.
- [09:32]
Corby Davidson
The guy scored a touchdown two days before his death.
- [09:36]
Bob Sturm
And, you know, it's just. Again, this franchise knows tragedy. We know that for sure. Whether it be, you know, Josh Brent, whether it be, you know, Mark Tune, you know, there's. There's a long list of tragedy here. And of course, in pro football, the list gets really long, really fast. And. And we. We love what these guys do for us in terms of entertaining us every Sunday, and really, we think about it every day. But. But it is a time like this where we're like, man, how do you even get up for the next game? How do you. You know, I don't know. It's just. It. I. I'm happy we can talk about this, but I also recognize that the whole point is we won't find a satisfactory summation or result or conclusion of any of this. We will. We will wonder for years what could have been done. And. And. And I hope everybody can. Everybody involved and everybody connected with him. I hope they don't blame themselves for too long, because I know that's probably the natural thing for friends to say, why did I not see signs that Marshawn needed me? You know, that sort of thing.
- [10:50]
George Dunham
Yeah. Well, as we have both talked about on a radio station, the ticket in Dallas this week, the Cowboys have hired, you know, some. Some therapists to talk to players who have to talk their way through this on their own roster and their coaching staff. Between Brian Schottenheimer and Dak Prescott. I think they have a coach who loves his players and tries to relate to them, and they have a quarterback and they have a defensive tackle and Solomon Thomas, who has been through, yes, this type of tragedy in their family. So they have that to draw on. And you hope in some way that, that that can help these players forget about what they do on the field, but just in their headspace somehow start to make some sense of just this thing that's, you know, hard to deal with.
- [11:43]
Bob Sturm
Yeah, yeah, no doubt about it. It's, It's, It's. It's staggering. I don't know, you know, you'd like to hit pause and let everybody recover, but, but, but that isn't how the show works. You must go on and there are games to play and, and, you know, it's just, It's. It's a tremendous bummer. Even today, George, I'm working on a project about, like, the Cowboys draft success. And you go through each year and say, that was a good pick and that was a poor pick. And like, what do you do with this? What do you do with, with Marshawn Neal? And I know he not really fully break out yet, and there were high, high hopes for him, but, you know, even from a standpoint of just like, evaluating a team's process of acquiring players, there's. There's just no way to account for, for a young man deciding that. That he had had enough of this world. And again, it's. It's a great opportunity to talk to our sons and our daughters and, and just assure them that, you know, hey, I know you have hopes and dreams and whether you achieve them or not, it's okay to tell those people in your life, like, man, I'm just going through. I'm just going through it right now and I need some help. And gosh, us parents would do anything, you know, oh my gosh, to try to assure our kids that, you know, it's going to be okay. Hang in there. You know, so rough scene, man.
- [13:16]
George Dunham
As a public service announcement, there is a suicide prevention line at 988. And to your point about talking to people, if you haven't called that family member in a while, whether they have, you know, issues or not, or maybe someone, a friend that you've had a falling out with or you wonder about, man, just, I don't know, maybe make that call this week and say, hey, I was thinking about you. How you doing? And yeah, we need some more of that in this world of people trying to pick each other up. And no doubt Choppy each other off.
- [13:51]
Corby Davidson
At the knees and, and, you know, again, for people of that age, the.
- [13:56]
Bob Sturm
The idea that you've got to achieve a certain level or you're letting people down. Like, we. I. I think, you know, I know we send our kids off to college and we want to see them, you know, do great in life. And, And.
- [14:12]
George Dunham
And I think that may be the scariest moment as worse than first day of kindergarten, worse than first day of high school. If your son or daughter is lucky enough to, you know, have the motivation and the means to go to college. Man, when they. When you drop them off or. Or they drive off, one of the two, it's just, oh, my gosh, they're not under my roof anymore.
- [14:34]
Bob Sturm
Yeah.
- [14:34]
Corby Davidson
And, you know, the takeaway from that.
- [14:37]
Bob Sturm
And, you know, we even go through this with our kiddos. I took a road trip with, you know, my son, one of my older son, just a couple days ago, and even look for opportunities to say, look, man, I want you to chase your dreams, but really I want your reality to just be that whatever you end up doing, know that you're going to be loved and know that nobody's going to be worried that you let anybody down. We just want, like, a full heart and, you know, just feel like you're here for a reason and you can. You can find contentment in whatever you end up doing in life. It's like nobody's saying, man, this. This guy only did this, therefore, you know, he kind of disappointed the family. Like, nobody thinks that way. We just want. We just want, you know, family and friends to just feel whatever they're doing, like the next sunny day is just a source of happiness, hopefully. So, anyway, we'll. We'll remember Marshawn Neyland for sure. And, you know, hopefully we can. We can learn lessons from a horrible tragedy that we can apply to our kiddos and our. Our brothers and our sons and our daughters and just everybody close to us, you know, stay connected and. And, you know, try to. Try to lift each other up. I. I think. I think that's the takeaway, Georgie.
- [15:53]
George Dunham
Amen to all of that, Bob. Well said. Okay, I want to talk about your trip because it wasn't just anywhere. It wasn't at the Lambeau Field, for gosh sakes. And you saw a throwback game. I want to talk about that in something else that has happened in our area this past week that is truly phenomenal. What has happened the last nine months to the basketball team in Dallas. Yeah, how that relates to the Cowboys. We're going to tie those things together. Coming up next on the Musers the Podcast Cowboys Edition this College football season.
- [16:30]
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- [18:03]
George Dunham
Get your picks right and you could.
- [18:04]
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- [18:26]
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- [18:54]
George Dunham
It's the Musers the Podcast Cowboys Edition. It's George and Bob. Cowboys and Raiders on Monday Night Football in Vegas, Bob's going to be there. Bob does nothing but just travel around and go to Monday Night Football games. This past Monday, you were just talking about a trip you made with your son. And it wasn't just any trip. It was a trip to Lambeau. Bob grew up in Wisconsin, grew up a Packers fan. He got to Dallas as soon as he could and learned the ways of true greatness of the NFL. But that's where Bob grew up. And you know, we just did on the Muses, the podcast, our bucket list. And that is on mine. I've never been to Lambeau Field, but someday Bob. So what was that like on Monday night? You've been there a zillion times, but yeah. What was Monday night's experience like?
- [19:43]
Ad Read Announcer
Cold weather, great matchup defense.
- [19:45]
George Dunham
Yeah. And you're there with your boy.
- [19:47]
Bob Sturm
Yeah, yeah. No, it's. I can't recommend enough the idea of building traditions with your growing up kids and whatever that means. Of course, I'm not the first to do a father son trip, but this year I've got, I've got a couple boys who are of that college age and I took my soccer son over to Liverpool so that we could watch our favorite team in person back in April, and that was delightful. And my older son, who's way more into the American football than the football football, well, he, he grew up a Packer fan.
- [20:25]
Corby Davidson
He was named after a Packer, of course.
- [20:27]
Bob Sturm
And so, so little Brett and I have been going to Lambeau. We've been going to Lambeau since he was tiny and, and, and try to go every year. Probably don't successfully pull it off, but, but the Cowboys bye week allowed us to go back to Lambeau for Monday night against the Eagles. And, and it's truly a delight. And I'm so lucky, George, over the years to be able to not only do these trips, but then, you know, have connections in the game, including our mutual friend Troy Aikman. Helped, you know, helped with our connections, of course. And so, so we got to.
- [21:07]
George Dunham
Hey, folks, let's pause just for. Bob knows Troy Aikman and got to hang out with him before the game.
- [21:13]
Corby Davidson
Not as well.
- [21:14]
George Dunham
That's amazing.
- [21:15]
Corby Davidson
Not as well as, you know, Troy Aikman.
- [21:16]
Bob Sturm
But he's.
- [21:17]
George Dunham
That's not true.
- [21:18]
Corby Davidson
He's a friend of our radio station and he's been.
- [21:22]
Bob Sturm
He's a great human, just from personal experience, and he has played in enough.
- [21:30]
Corby Davidson
Super Bowls that he could be above the fray here.
- [21:32]
Bob Sturm
But he also knows the thrill of a young man on his birthday getting to go out on the field and enjoy the pregame scene. So it was great. We had such a wonderful time, and then we got to see the packers play ridiculously poor offensive football and improve.
- [21:51]
Corby Davidson
The Cowboys draft pick position next. Next April.
- [21:54]
George Dunham
So, yeah, there we go.
- [21:55]
Corby Davidson
I'm sure everybody's excited about that.
- [21:57]
Bob Sturm
But yeah, now we, we, we thankfully, late in the game did get to see a touchdown. That was fun.
- [22:05]
George Dunham
So, no, honestly, I love the game, by the way. I love every once in a while, if you see two good defensive units. Yeah. And obviously the, the new parts in Philadelphia are helping them out, just like Micah Parsons has helped out Green Bay. And man, I love it. I don't. There was some offensive. What's the right word?
- [22:29]
Corby Davidson
Just substandard.
- [22:31]
George Dunham
Substandard offense. Okay. Some of it was, but I thought a lot of that was great defense and I loved it.
- [22:36]
Corby Davidson
Well, not only great defense, Georgie, but.
- [22:38]
Bob Sturm
I think more importantly, the offenses were terrified of risking anything because they know what happens if you, if you trifle with Jalen Carter, Micah Parsons, you know, the stars in this game. And this is the thing that I really think we miss as fans sometimes is that having guys on your defense that absolutely terrify the opponent are often.
- [23:05]
Corby Davidson
Worth far more than the actual statistics.
- [23:08]
Bob Sturm
That that player can get on his own. Now that's difficult to measure, especially when it comes to a guy wanting a contract. And I know, like the Micah Parsons dialogue is a, is a one that's a bit of a beat down for people, but I do think when you watch the cowboy, the packers play the Eagles, I think you saw both offenses saying, we absolutely have to be careful because of these players and, and let's make the other team make more mistakes, right? Let's, let's. Let's make the other team, you know, totally screw up the, the game first and turn the ball over to us. And because of that, you know, I think both offenses didn't really try a whole lot, and that made it pretty fun.
- [23:57]
George Dunham
So if I ever go to Lambeau, this is the time to go, isn't it? November before it gets really cold, where you're miserable in December or January, but not 80 degrees in September. That was that not the optimal time to go when you went?
- [24:13]
Corby Davidson
Well, it was pretty cold. Georgia.
- [24:16]
Bob Sturm
Yeah.
- [24:16]
Corby Davidson
No, no, I'll tell you what.
- [24:20]
Bob Sturm
I have. I've gone to the, to Lambeau Field for games, I would guess by now about 30 times in my life. And I never got there until I was an Adult because my parents had no idea how to get us into Lambeau. So one of the very first things I did when I, when I got a job in life was I pretty much promised myself, okay, now I'm going to make up for lost time and as often as possible. So. But I've always been working and I've always been working, thankfully covering the NFL. And so usually of those 30 times to Lambo, let's say, I bet you 25 of them have been in December because that corresponds with going home for Christmas. And every year I get older. So every year I feel like it gets colder and, and I, I think 25 year old me would hope that 53 year old me would never start turning into an old person that just wants to watch the game by the fire in my living room.
- [25:23]
Corby Davidson
But I have to report better and better, isn't it? I have to report every year it gets colder. Even if the temperature stays the same, I get softer.
- [25:33]
Bob Sturm
I've lived in North Texas, I've had a good life and I just don't.
- [25:38]
Corby Davidson
Want to be that cold.
- [25:40]
Bob Sturm
And, and so I remember when the hard line went up there for Mike McCarthy's return to Lambeau. I want to say that was roughly week 10 or 11 or 12 and it was roughly the middle of November and I was telling Corby and Davey and Mino that hey, it's not going to be that bad. You're not going in December or January. And George, it was that bad. It was so cold. Partly because I think you gear up in December and January that you have to dress like an Eskimo. And in November you're like, you know.
- [26:13]
Corby Davidson
What, maybe a sweatshirt and then a hoodie and then a nice jacket or.
- [26:18]
Bob Sturm
Something like that will be enough. And the wind and it's just. No, it's not enough. And so this time we are driving up and the pregame show is saying, this looks like it will be one of the coldest games this early in the winter that we've had at Lambeau. And it was projected to be the low 20s for much of the night. I gotta tell you, I think I'm.
- [26:45]
Corby Davidson
So old and soft now that I so over prepared.
- [26:49]
Bob Sturm
I had two pairs of pants, I had three pairs of socks, I had the little heaters, you know, the little, the little thing, you know, the hand warmers and the foot warmers, I had.
- [26:59]
Corby Davidson
Those put in there. I had so many layers on that.
- [27:03]
Bob Sturm
I actually do think I outdressed the cold to a point where did not even put the gloves on. In the second half.
- [27:10]
Corby Davidson
And so, so it was cold, but I was prepared this time. And I do think that's the key.
- [27:15]
Bob Sturm
Especially for a bald person, is to.
- [27:18]
Corby Davidson
Is to make sure you do your part.
- [27:21]
Bob Sturm
And I would love to be there if football friends could ever get George to Lambeau.
- [27:27]
Corby Davidson
And I tell everybody that the true.
- [27:33]
Bob Sturm
Places, the true bucket list stadiums in.
- [27:37]
Corby Davidson
Our sports, usually they're worth the hype.
- [27:40]
Bob Sturm
And I think my trip to Fenway was everything I hoped it would be.
- [27:44]
George Dunham
Absolutely.
- [27:45]
Bob Sturm
My trip to South Bend to see Notre Dame was wonderful.
- [27:49]
Corby Davidson
And so these places get these reputations for a reason.
- [27:53]
Bob Sturm
They're in the case of Lambeau, I think it's a bit like a football museum, but they'll actually play an NFL game while you're there. And you just, just. You get caught up in the history and the. And the college town atmosphere of Green Bay. I think, I think.
- [28:07]
Corby Davidson
I think I would recommend everybody goes to Lambeau. The thing I can't quite hash out in the conversation, George, is whether you.
- [28:15]
Bob Sturm
Should go when your team goes or if you should go as a neutral. Because, of course there are. If you go with when your team goes, then so much is about the result and so much is about, are.
- [28:27]
Corby Davidson
We going to play okay?
- [28:28]
Bob Sturm
And are they going to be mad at me for wearing my team's colors? So. So if you go as a neutral, are you.
- [28:33]
George Dunham
Do you.
- [28:34]
Bob Sturm
Are you a cheesehead for a day or are you just watching the game and you don't really even care what happens? You just want to be in the atmosphere?
- [28:40]
Corby Davidson
I think there's. I think there's a lot of value in doing it that way. So I. I don't.
- [28:45]
Bob Sturm
I don't know. I don't know.
- [28:46]
George Dunham
I think I want to see a game that everyone's really charged up for, like the Bears or the Vikings come into town or the. Or. Yeah, something that's got the fan base fired up about something.
- [28:57]
Corby Davidson
The Eagles on Monday night, I think was that game this year, the defending super bowl champs.
- [29:03]
Bob Sturm
And, and of course, Green Bay was. Was labeled as the team trying to get rid of the Tush push, which I actually think that was league propaganda, because Green Bay is the only team without an owner that you could pin that on. So at the owner's meeting, we could say, yeah, it's Green Bay's idea.
- [29:18]
George Dunham
They got a thousand owners, so let's put it on them.
- [29:21]
Bob Sturm
But I fully expected Sirianni to. To call 43 Tush pushes in a row just to just, you know, be. Be that kind of guy that I think he probably is. But. But in the end, full marks to the Eagles. The Eagles don't care. They.
- [29:38]
Corby Davidson
They're.
- [29:38]
Bob Sturm
They're. They're the team right now that's got enough confidence that they'll. They'll play the Chiefs in Kansas City and be fine. They'll play the packers in Green Bay and be fine. They're not scared of anybody anywhere. That's what. That. That's the type of courage you get when you win a Super Bowl. And they definitely have it right now.
- [29:55]
George Dunham
Absolutely. You know, I'm watching that on Monday night, and I was hoping they would show you on camera. I was waiting for Bob Cam. I never saw that, but it made me want to go more. But I also. This relates to the next thing we're going to. Talking about. Talk about. They showed, you know, some. Some scenes around Lambeau, but also outside Lambeau, and gosh, I'm gonna screw up the name Timeout Bar. Something that's just down the street, whatever it is. Yeah, the famous bar. That's Sports Bar. And they showed the stereotypical Packer fans and, you know, the cameras going down the aisle, and everyone's, hey, let's go pack. Let's go pack. And I think Green Bay is really unique in that the ownership is to the fans. And I, when I was growing up, the packers, this was after Lombardi, they were ridiculous in the 70s and the early 80s and. And really until Farve got there. But I just thought of, man, that that is a team that still has the trust and the love of its fan base and its community. So now we related to another sports story where we're from Dallas Fort Worth. And the Mavericks parted ways with Nico Harrison. And his last nine months were some of the wildest days in Dallas Mavericks history, from trading Luca to saying that this was going to be a team all about defense. And, hey, watch this as we build this team around Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving, and then, of course, they get hurt and they miss the playoffs and they somehow win the lottery and.
- [31:41]
Bob Sturm
Right.
- [31:42]
George Dunham
The whole thing is just insane. But the Mavericks, I think it's safe to say, have lost the trust of their fan base. They've lost the trust of their public. Could that ever happen to the Cowboys? Are we getting to that? Are they taking some steps towards that?
- [32:02]
Ad Read Announcer
The opinion of Jerry Jones is not.
- [32:03]
George Dunham
Very high around town and around this state. That comment a couple of weeks ago about him being more concerned about a gas well than he was about fixing the defense.
- [32:14]
Bob Sturm
Yeah.
- [32:15]
George Dunham
Didn't fly real well. I still think They're a long way from where the Mavericks are right now, which is just a dumpster fire. But it's a delicate thing, isn't it, that trust of your fan base. And, yeah, they didn't do it this year, but by God, I believe in the floor. I believe in love, and I believe in now Micah Parsons, and they're going to do it one of these days. But, man, if you ever get to that point where they say it's never going to happen, and I guess some Cowboy fans are close to that now. What do you think?
- [32:45]
Corby Davidson
Well, yeah, I mean, there's.
- [32:47]
Bob Sturm
There's a million things there.
- [32:49]
Corby Davidson
This.
- [32:49]
Bob Sturm
This feels like the premise of a book almost. It's such a exhaustive discussion, but. But I think it's a great one. And. And I guess takeaway from the entire conversation as it applies from the Mavs to the Cowboys is, I think, the story of the Mavericks finally firing their general manager that so upset the city. I think that is maybe not completely, but primarily because the fans never let it go. The fans.
- [33:24]
George Dunham
I've never seen anything like it. It's just. Yes, the mob mentality was just off the charts.
- [33:29]
Bob Sturm
Yes. And I think mob in a. In a reasonable way. I think obviously, worldwide mobs can be very, very scary, and they can go way too far. And I think in this case, these fans just were. Were upset that they felt, and I agree with them, that the public trust was broken between a team and it's public. And I think. I think to me, that's my big takeaway.
- [33:54]
Corby Davidson
And, George, it may be a pie.
- [33:56]
Bob Sturm
In the sky, it may not be.
- [33:58]
Corby Davidson
Real life, but in my opinion, in.
- [34:00]
Bob Sturm
My personal opinion, and again, this might be because Bob was born in Wisconsin, but I believe that the fans own the team. And I know we don't.
- [34:12]
Corby Davidson
I know that's untrue, but also true. And what I mean by that is.
- [34:17]
Bob Sturm
You don't have a franchise if you don't have fans. You absolutely rely on us. Now, it might be $100 at a time, it might be $10 at a time, but you rely on us to provide the fuel for the entire thing, the entire. Whatever this is of a franchise running.
- [34:38]
Corby Davidson
You need us. And I think we lose sight of that because they are so rich and so removed from, you know, the 400.
- [34:48]
Bob Sturm
Level at the AT T Stadium that we sometimes think that they're inviting us into their home and we're their guest and we need to be courteous and we need to accept whatever they serve for dinner and be thankful.
- [35:00]
Corby Davidson
And I just I just don't think it's like that, George. I think we are part of the deal. We are. We are the. They're the stewards. How about that? They are the caretakers of a franchise, but they are not. They do not own it in the.
- [35:18]
Bob Sturm
Sense that they can do whatever they want and not feel the effects of our. Of our unrest. And.
- [35:25]
Corby Davidson
And so I believe the story of.
- [35:28]
Bob Sturm
The Mavs fans not letting something go and ultimately getting what they demanded is very similar. Texas A and M had a situation a couple years ago where they fired a coach. They wanted to hire somebody else, and the fans revolted. Now, did they revolt in terms of. Did they burn buildings? No, but they were very, very, very upset and very, very, very loud, and they didn't let it go. And the university did not hire Mark Stoops because their fans lost their minds. And I don't know where the line is. And I also know it's a fine line of not letting fans decide who the starting quarterback is, because that's insane.
- [36:16]
Corby Davidson
But you owe it to your public.
- [36:20]
Bob Sturm
To be serious as a franchise to try to provide an experience that we're willing to pay into. And so how does that apply to the Cowboys? I think it's a great discussion, and I think it's one that, you know.
- [36:39]
Corby Davidson
When people say, how did the Mavericks.
- [36:41]
Bob Sturm
Fans pull this off? They just never let it go.
- [36:44]
Corby Davidson
And people say, well, would that work with the Cowboys? My thought on that, George, and I think I've said this to you in.
- [36:50]
Bob Sturm
Oxnard, is that, you know, what's crazy.
- [36:53]
Corby Davidson
Is upset as Cowboy fans seem to be over the years, I've never seen a single fan protest, not one. Not. Not even to the scale of those fans who had the Fire Nico signs.
- [37:08]
Bob Sturm
And rallies like on the. On the plaza outside the Mavericks arena last spring.
- [37:13]
Corby Davidson
And that was maybe only a couple hundred people with signs and chants. But I've never seen that with the Cowboys. All I see is they open the doors and everybody sprints to their spot every game. They can't wait to give Jerry Jones and his family all of their money. And it's such a compliant fan base. And I don't really understand what it.
- [37:39]
Bob Sturm
Would take to upset Cowboy fans enough to say, we demand a real general.
- [37:44]
Corby Davidson
Manager or we demand A, or we're not going to ever do B again. As you know, the Cowboys stadium never.
- [37:54]
Bob Sturm
Lacks for customers, and they make that family very rich. And that behavior reinforces that family's actions, that they have never made a wrong turn in their life.
- [38:06]
George Dunham
Well, and that's why I was a little more cynical on the trades to bring players like Quinn and Williams to town. Yes, I Understand it's about 26 and 27, but not to the guy who owns the team. The worst thing that could possibly happen is the Cowboys lose out and they go through, you know, a season where they only win four games or five games. If they can win six or seven, that's enough for Jerry to not only get people in, but sell futures for next year. Hey, we didn't make it, but we're fixing this defense. We got draft picks now that we're going to use and to always keep that machine going. And yeah, it's. I know some people are out, but not enough. Not enough for people to stay away from the stadium. And if the Cowboy fans stay away, that schedule comes out and whoever is on it will buy the remaining tickets.
- [39:03]
Bob Sturm
Yeah. Well, I'll tell you that. That comment from the Wall Street Journal a week or two ago, honestly, that's the biggest litmus test to the fear that an owner has running this franchise. Because even if you're joking and okay, he was joking, let's say that he's more interested in $100 billion potential gas or oil land sweepstakes than fixing the Cowboys defense.
- [39:38]
George Dunham
Ha ha ha.
- [39:40]
Bob Sturm
I just think in. Where an owner understands how serious people take this. And. And again, I'm going to point to the United Kingdom and the way those. Those people run their soccer franchises. They understand this is not a joking matter. This is the. These people of. Who support our soccer club. They do not joke about our team being bad, and they do not joke about.
- [40:10]
Corby Davidson
So. So there's just. There's a respect.
- [40:12]
Bob Sturm
There's a healthy respect that I own this thing and I may have access to a private jet and a helicopter, but I am your servant, the public. I am here to do what's best because I owe it to you guys who. Who love this franchise more than I ever could because you were born here. This is all, you know, you're going to make sure your grandkids love this soccer club. You know, that's how they do it over there and over here. It's. It's kind of this insulated life where we don't owe the fans a single thing. And you should be happy that we even sell you a ticket. And I just.
- [40:53]
Corby Davidson
I just think that's wrong. And that's why what the Mavs fans did is they took action and they got the attention of the ownership group. And again, I'm. I realize there have to Be decorum limits to what we're willing to do to get their attention.
- [41:08]
Bob Sturm
You know, we still have to treat them respectfully as humans, but we don't.
- [41:13]
Corby Davidson
Have to fill their pockets year after.
- [41:15]
Bob Sturm
Year after year after year and, and.
- [41:18]
Corby Davidson
Just pledge allegiance to them. I also don't believe in walking away.
- [41:22]
Bob Sturm
And just letting them do whatever they want.
- [41:24]
Corby Davidson
And that's what some people do just.
- [41:26]
Bob Sturm
To, you know, have peace of mind is just okay, I'm not a Cowboy fan anymore. I believe in hanging in there with.
- [41:32]
Corby Davidson
Your franchise, but demanding a better behavior because this is not your franchise. This is our franchise. You just hold the deed right now. And so, you know, I, I, I find, heck, it's even interesting, George, that Mavericks fans and Cowboy fans are often the same human. So, so why do we stand idly by with the football team? Because, because by all accounts, people care.
- [41:58]
Bob Sturm
More about the football team than they do about any other franchise in this area.
- [42:02]
Corby Davidson
But they're also so compliant to the.
- [42:05]
Bob Sturm
Jones family that it is his team. I guess if he wants to be gm, I guess that's cool.
- [42:10]
Corby Davidson
And I just, I just think, man, I don't know what you do, George, Seriously, but I do know I've never seen one, one fan protest one in all these years. Followed it for three decades. And every Cowboy fan I know is sick and tired of Cowboy football, underachieving in this generation. And yet they can't do one tenth of what Mavericks fans just did and just got accomplished. And I just find that puzzling.
- [42:43]
George Dunham
Yeah. And, you know, I thought they would take more backlash on the MICA deal. And they have taken some, but not a lot.
- [42:51]
Corby Davidson
Most people take their side.
- [42:53]
George Dunham
Yes. And back to the story of our sons. My youngest son, his middle name is Landry, he's. He's almost sworn off the team, is convinced that it's never going to happen. He's the, he's. Of my three sons, he's the one who still, he still believes a little. You know, he still wants it for them. And maybe it's because his middle name is Landry, I don't know. But he's still, he still roots for him. But, you know, even he called me in August after Micah was dealt and said, you know, dad, if I was 10 years old, between Luca and Micah, I would be crying in my closet right now.
- [43:32]
Corby Davidson
That's right.
- [43:34]
George Dunham
As it relates to Maverick and Cowboy fans who just got kicked in the pants.
- [43:37]
Bob Sturm
That's right.
- [43:38]
George Dunham
You know, twice in a matter of months. So there is some correlation there. If Jerry took any advice from Me. And by the way, I have talked business with Jerry before. Granted, one of the times was like one o' clock in the morning in New Orleans, but he and I have had interesting conversations off air before.
- [43:58]
Corby Davidson
Right.
- [43:58]
George Dunham
If I could offer him any sort of advice. And who knows, the people in Atlanta may think Arthur Blank is ridiculous. And I've seen them, you know, torch him on, on social media about how bad the Falcons are. But you know what? At least when you go to the Dome in Atlanta, you don't pay $10 for a soft drink. You pay almost like masters prices. I think it's two bucks. There are the lowest priced concession team in, in the NFL. And I know Jerry has his own catering company, but how about parking? How about parking?
- [44:37]
Corby Davidson
How about, how about I park at Lambeau for $20?
- [44:41]
George Dunham
Yes.
- [44:41]
Corby Davidson
You could not even dream of parking.
- [44:44]
Bob Sturm
At AT&T Stadium for less than, less than 60.
- [44:47]
Corby Davidson
Probably 100.
- [44:48]
George Dunham
It's over 100, most of it. The tickets are outrageous. I think it would go a long way if he said, you know what, this has been substandard here the last 30 years. I have tried my best, but he doesn't have to say this publicly. But this is a play for getting the public's trust back. Lower ticket prices, lower concessions, lower parking. Give an ear to what? Mass transit to games. Yeah, that makes some sense. So my fans don't have to pay $100 so they can ride a bus from Dallas and get here. That would go a long way. And I think he ought to think about it because if this keeps up, they are, they are teetering on the worst nightmare for professional sports. And that is just what you said, losing your fans trust. Yeah.
- [45:35]
Bob Sturm
And for me, just, just to go back to, to the Mavericks lesson, perhaps we learned here is just, to me, there has to be an accountability. And that's, that's all we're talking about here.
- [45:49]
Corby Davidson
I don't, I don't believe for a.
- [45:51]
Bob Sturm
Second that fans can get an owner to sell the team. I just think that's probably silly. Okay, so I understand you're not going to get the Jones family to sell the team. You're not going to get the Adelson family to sell the team unless they want to. And usually the only time they want to is either when they need money or they feel like they've multiplied the value to a point where it's time to cash out. And I just don't think Jerry Jones has that on his radar at all.
- [46:19]
Corby Davidson
That said, there are positions about the.
- [46:22]
Bob Sturm
Football team and general manager might be.
- [46:25]
Corby Davidson
The most important one, even more important than the head coach, where there has.
- [46:29]
Bob Sturm
To be an accountability, where if somebody does not do their job at a.
- [46:34]
Corby Davidson
Requisite level, we can demand change based on facts.
- [46:40]
Bob Sturm
And I think the demand for change at the general manager position that the.
- [46:47]
Corby Davidson
Owner placed himself in charge of and.
- [46:49]
Bob Sturm
Has pretty much said, there is no amount of failure that could ever get me off of this until God calls me home, basically, I will be the general manager. And to me, that kind of is.
- [47:02]
Corby Davidson
What I'm talking about here, with no accountability and no sort of obligation to your public as a steward of a franchise that I want what's best for all of you, not for my personal ego.
- [47:15]
Bob Sturm
And so I do think that the instructive lesson to be learned from the Mavericks fans, who, like I said, are largely the same humans, to.
- [47:26]
Corby Davidson
To be able to get together and unify and at least be heard at.
- [47:33]
Bob Sturm
Games or, you know, once a year.
- [47:36]
Corby Davidson
Of Please, sir, if it pleases you, would you consider finding the best personnel expert and using your infinite money to get him onto your team and to hold meetings with you about what he.
- [47:53]
Bob Sturm
Thinks you should do?
- [47:54]
Corby Davidson
And you, by the way, as owner, you can still be the shadow gm. You can still do me at the.
- [48:01]
George Dunham
Press conferences and all that.
- [48:03]
Corby Davidson
You can still do all of that. But, but, but just please accept some advice from somebody with their butt on the line that you got this decision correct, and that would make everybody look at you in a different light. But as far as I'm concerned, George, why would he ever listen to me if his own fans who grew up here have just sort of complied to his. His every whim over these years that.
- [48:31]
Bob Sturm
I, you know, it's Jerry's team. I guess he gets to do what he wants to do with it.
- [48:35]
Corby Davidson
Man, I don't think so. I think you fans, this is your team. This is. And you are empowered if you choose to accept the power to be heard, that you are upset. And sending emails to radio show hosts does not get you nearly as far as something as profound as chanting fire Nico in your own arena as a group. That actually works over the course of time if you don't give in. But I kind of think cowboy fans have given in and given up on this particular topic.
- [49:09]
Bob Sturm
And it just seemed like a good time to talk about it.
- [49:12]
George Dunham
Yeah, that was interesting. Very interesting conversation. All right, we need to talk about the Raiders. Bob's going to Las Vegas. Let's talk about that matchup, the Musers, the podcast Cowboys edition, in just a moment.
- [49:28]
U.S. Soccer Announcer
November is heating up.
- [49:29]
George Dunham
For U.S. soccer, United States need to be a little more nasty.
- [49:33]
U.S. Soccer Announcer
Make international friendlies for the men.
- [49:39]
David Pollack
Oh, Callum, that was nasty.
- [49:40]
U.S. Soccer Announcer
And a Black Friday friendly for the women.
- [49:42]
George Dunham
Expectations have always been here for this team. We understand that.
- [49:45]
U.S. Soccer Announcer
Listen anywhere on the go with the Westwood One sports app. And for behind the scenes stories, catch the U.S. soccer Podcast.
- [49:52]
George Dunham
Boy, do we have an episode for you.
- [49:54]
U.S. Soccer Announcer
Follow and listen on your favorite platform.
- [49:59]
George Dunham
Okay. Cowboys and Raiders on Monday Night Football in Las Vegas. Bob is actually going to be in the house. His award winning afternoon show that he works on is going to be there and that's pretty cool. I've, I've seen that stadium. Haven't seen a game there. Have you been to that stadium yet to see a game?
- [50:21]
Bob Sturm
No, same, same as you. I've taken the taken tour. I have. You know, I like it enough. But, but yeah, I've never been to Las Vegas for a game so. So let's make it happen on Monday night.
- [50:35]
George Dunham
Well, they see a Raiders team that is fallen on really hard times. They only have two wins. They somehow almost knocked off Denver before falling 10, 7 lost in overtime. The Jacksonville got annihilated by Kansas City. They got annihilated by Indianapolis. Back when we thought that's, that's not that great a team and turns out that was a tougher opponent than we, than we thought lost a crazy game against the Bears. In other words, they've, they've been close and I guess their most impressive win is they beat the Patriots. They were one of two teams that has beaten the Patriots this year. Yeah, but they've got a quarterback who's thrown more interceptions than touchdowns. If you watch the Raiders most of this season, you look at them and think they stink.
- [51:31]
Bob Sturm
Yeah, and it's, it's kind of the same old same old on why they stink. Going back to, they just can't get their offense right and this has been going on a while and it's, it's, it's certainly gone from quarterback to quarterback and head coach to head coach and O.C. to O.C. and you know, it's, it's, it's been a while since they've been good and so they spent a very, very high pick last year on an offensive piece and Brock Bowers, and he appears to be a stud, but it hasn't quite moved this, this, this giant ship in a different direction. So then they spent another really high pick on, on a running back in Ashton Genty. And, and we believe him to be a generational type talent. But, but, but that has Been some very tough sledding. Again, it does look like, once again, the, the value of an offense is largely found up front in its offensive line, and that remains an issue. Quarterback remains an issue. They hired Pete Carroll. I mean, they got a lot going on. George. Their defense is not bad, but it's more of a not bad than a really good defense. But it, but it's all held back because the offense just, just struggles at literally everything all the time.
- [52:48]
George Dunham
Do you know, offhand, do they move Max Crosby around? Do they put him right side, left side, or. They all always put him on the blind side?
- [52:57]
Corby Davidson
I, I believe he is generally against the right tackle and, and, and I think he might move around a little bit, but from, from my initial pass.
- [53:08]
Bob Sturm
At his stuff, it feels like usually he would be going up against the Terence Steele, Nate Thomas right tackle spot, which, which gets everybody excited.
- [53:19]
George Dunham
That's okay. Yeah, that's right. From the offense is right. And I think that could be a problem. And on the other side, yeah, they've had offensive problems, but I'm sure as they turn on the tape, as we've said probably a half dozen times this year. Oh, okay. Dallas's defense has some problems. I think we can do something here.
- [53:41]
Bob Sturm
Yeah.
- [53:41]
George Dunham
But now you factor in Quinn and Williams. How much does he play? How much does Logan Wilson play?
- [53:47]
Bob Sturm
Right.
- [53:48]
George Dunham
The long awaited return of demarvi and Overshone. I think he'll be sprinkled in Monday.
- [53:53]
Bob Sturm
I do too.
- [53:54]
George Dunham
And tell me about Siobhan Ravel. I've heard his name said about eight different ways, but I think that's how we're saying it, right?
- [54:03]
Corby Davidson
Yeah. Either Siobhan or Siobhan or Siobhan. I'm a little bit, a little bit dicey on that one. Totally, George.
- [54:10]
Bob Sturm
But I really liked him and I've.
- [54:11]
George Dunham
Heard Rebel and Revel, so, you know, very mysterious corner. But seeing what I've seen of him, his college tape is really, really good. He's coming off of a knee injury.
- [54:25]
Bob Sturm
Yeah.
- [54:25]
George Dunham
I wonder how much he plays against the Raiders.
- [54:27]
Bob Sturm
Yeah. Well, I will tell you, when looking at his, his college profile from East Carolina, my takeaway was he's everything I look for in an NFL corner with great size and speed, as well as that great length. And more importantly, he is willing to find contact and aggressiveness. And he just plays the corner in a way you'll really like. He wants to get after you and tackle you with force. And he has recovery speed and instincts for the ball. The issues, though are that he has been hurt and this is a big thing, of course, in our professional sports is durability is sometimes tough to come by. And so he couldn't really take part in the draft process because of an ACL recovery. And he had a couple high school injuries that were a big deal. He was even in a car accident. And so there are plenty of things that say he's got to get on the field and then his play style takes a toll. So I don't know how much you remember his, his personal story, but he was working out, he was working at Amazon overnights and this was a guy who was almost out of football, but he tried out for East Carolina and upon trying out, and this is because of a car accident in high school that kind of took him out of the recruiting process. And so he tried out for East Carolina and ended up a success story there and kind of worked his way up through the back channels of not being a five star and not being a golden boy and having people doubting him. So he's got great quality as you know, like a human. And so this, when you talk about culture, these are the types of guys you're looking for. But he still hasn't been on the field. And so, you know, you say first round value, we got it in the third round. But this is why, because here we are this late in the season and we barely, we don't even know how to say his name yet. And that's not a great sign so far.
- [56:26]
Corby Davidson
But I mean, look, this whole game.
- [56:27]
Bob Sturm
To me is about getting to look at how this defense appears. Now again, if we may take it all the way back to the tragedy they're dealing with and the fact that they, they just added Quinn and Williams and, and Logan Wilson and so they're all learning each other's names. And so for us to expect a drastic difference from the defense is probably a little optimistic. But yeah, you could have like five new starters, maybe, maybe six new regulars on this defense if you start going through it.
- [57:02]
Corby Davidson
And George, I want to be on the lookout for even the, some signs.
- [57:07]
Bob Sturm
Of playing a three, four with a, with a five man front. I kind of wonder if the idea is to get osa, Odiggy, Zua, Kenny Clark and Quinn and Williams all kind of across the front like a 34.
- [57:21]
George Dunham
Putting Quinn and over the center.
- [57:23]
Corby Davidson
Yeah. And then you might have like as a Raku as a stand up on.
- [57:26]
Bob Sturm
One side and Dante Fowler or, or, or Jadevian Clowney as a stand up on the other side and, and you kind of play a 50 front or a 34 or however you want to say it now again, nickel is based in the NFL and so the idea that we need to account for, for seven up front in a three four or a four three is, is probably just a first down thing if at all. They probably will have a five man front on running downs and then sort of shift to the normal 42 with a nickel behind it on passing downs, which is the majority of what we see in the NFL. So I, I guess what I'm saying is I don't want to get lost in the weeds on, on a, on a scheme change, especially mid season. But as we look to the spring where you get two first round picks that, that as of right now look like they both might even be in the top 20, we have to start imagining a defense for 2026. It starts Monday night. But as into 2026, what scheme, what coordinator? I know Jerry is acting like Eber Fluss is his guy no matter what next year but, but I think we can take that with a grain of salt. But it, but it all starts here in Las Vegas as to what this Cowboys defense looks like and that's really the story of what can Quinn and Williams do right away to make us realize he is a blue chip piece that this team really hasn't had in the middle of their defense in a long, long time.
- [59:03]
George Dunham
Well, and there's something about Cowboys Raiders too. It takes you back to that magical decade of the 70s and the Raiders won a lot of games under John Madden and Kenny Stabler, stayed relevant in the 80s and they, there really was a greatness to the Raiders now there hasn't been in a while but I think anytime you have that matchup Cowboys Raiders, most NFL fans perk up and go okay, yeah, I'll watch that on a Monday night.
- [59:34]
Corby Davidson
Yeah, I don't know if ESPN would.
- [59:36]
Bob Sturm
Select this game as their feature game right now. But, but yeah, nostalgic.
- [59:41]
George Dunham
There's, there's nostalgia in the when these two teams play.
- [59:45]
Corby Davidson
There is. And somehow the Raiders can keep that.
- [59:48]
Bob Sturm
Brand value despite the fact that they Never really spend 10 years in the same city at any point as they go from Oakland LA back to Oakland now to Las Vegas. But they're probably going to be here for a long, long time in Las Vegas. And yeah, it's a game that will get a lot of neutrals to the TV at least for the first hour and I assume we can actually get some first half points this week unlike what I saw last week and, and, and we go from there. So yeah It'll be fun.
- [60:18]
Corby Davidson
I'm excited to see it.
- [60:19]
Bob Sturm
And, and, and you know, this second half to me of the season is probably more of an exercise in getting your franchise right for what lies ahead.
- [60:30]
Corby Davidson
But I do admit overshown.
- [60:33]
Bob Sturm
Ravel, Quinn and Williams, Logan Wilson, you can, you can feel the newness of, of, of just a drop of optimism on, you know, can we get this defense sorted out so that we can hit the ground running in this off season and you know, again start, add two more studs on draft day and, and see about where it takes us?
- [60:55]
George Dunham
Well, I'm going to write it down. I'm going to watch this game on Monday night, Bob, and you're going to be there and field access again. Should I look for you in the pregame show walking around and hobnobbing on the field or.
- [61:06]
Bob Sturm
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna bother Troy again. So if I can figure it out another way, I'll be down there and I'll try to wear like a jump giant cheese head. So you know who it is. Yeah, but, but no, you know those people are the worst, right? The, the third party uniform guy at an NFL game.
- [61:23]
Corby Davidson
Oh, I know.
- [61:24]
Bob Sturm
And by the way, packers fans are the worst at that. They'll, they'll, they'll go to any game in, in any stadium and they'll wear their Packer jerseys. And I would just like to say as an owner of the Packers, I, I, I discourage that sort of thing. If you're not, that's really not playing in the game.
- [61:37]
Corby Davidson
We don't, we don't need to see.
- [61:39]
Bob Sturm
Your Favre jersey if they're not playing in the game.
- [61:42]
George Dunham
So another public service announcement from a man, Bob Sturm from Football Football Friends. Well, thanks to Peter Welton and Ty Webker producing this show today.
- [61:55]
Bob Sturm
Wow.
- [61:56]
George Dunham
This show was double strong with both of those good gentlemen helping us out with the show. We'll see what happens in Cowboys and Raiders and we'll be back next week to talk about cowboy football here on the Musers, the podcast Cowboys edition Football prints.
- [62:15]
Corby Davidson
Yay.
- [62:16]
George Dunham
Yay.
- [62:17]
David Pollack
What's up, guys? David Pollack here, former Georgia Bulldog, former analyst with College Game Day and host of my new show C Ball.
- [62:24]
Bob Sturm
Get ball.
- [62:24]
David Pollack
I'm a defensive lineman. That's why that's the name. You see the ball, you go get it. We're going to dive deep into college football. We're going to break down film. We'll have bold takes real conversations with the biggest names in the sport every single week. If you eat sleep and breathe college football like I do, man, I promise you. C ball. Get ball is for you. So do me a favor. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.