Cowboys Weekly Edition (vs Packers)

Summary

The Musers The Podcast: Cowboys Weekly Edition (vs. Packers)

Date: September 25, 2025
Hosts: George Dunham & Bob Sturm
Network: Cumulus Podcast Network

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Overview

This episode of The Musers The Podcast dives deeply into the Dallas Cowboys' disappointing start to the 2025 season, focusing on the defensive collapse in a recent loss to the Chicago Bears, the mounting injuries—especially on offense—and the looming drama of facing former star Micah Parsons, now a Packer, on Sunday Night Football. George and Bob blend sobering analysis, nostalgia, and humor as they explore the Cowboys’ problems, debate accountability within the franchise, and preview the emotional return of Parsons.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

Cowboys Defense: The Collapse

• Progressive Decline: George and Bob open with frank disbelief at how badly the defense has regressed over three games, comparing the current defense to historically awful Cowboys units from 1989 and 2020.

  • "[The defense] has gotten progressively worse… I don't think I've ever seen worse zone defense played than whatever it is the Cowboys are playing right now." — George [02:15]

• NFL Film Study & No Mercy: Bob explains how early-season “mystery” quickly evaporates as teams identify and exploit the Cowboys’ flaws.

  • "The Giants sort of pulled your pants down for the entire NFL, and now it might be a feeding frenzy until it gets fixed…" — Bob [03:41]

• Schematic Simplicity: George relays that even opponents see the defense as basic and easy to attack.

  • “At the NFL level, whatever they're doing is really elementary, easy to exploit, and that's exactly what [the Bears] did.” — George [05:59]

• The Flea Flicker Breakdown: Bob analyzes the viral flea flicker TD, noting the fundamental flaws and the position the safety (Malik Hooker) was put in.

  • “It’s kind of funny in a sad sort of way… Malik Hooker is dealing with the most sinking of feelings because he's got two guys running at different points… and he can't cover both of them.” — Bob [06:24]

• Statistical Rock Bottom: The Cowboys rank dead last or close to last in key defensive categories.

  • "They're 32nd in passing yards allowed, 32nd in passing yards per play… 32nd in third down conversions, and 30th in yards against." — Bob [08:24]

Effort, Accountability, and Culture

• Lack of Competition for Jobs: Both hosts bemoan the Cowboys’ “anti-meritocracy,” saying starters are too secure despite poor performance.

  • “If I were to call in my biggest problem with the Cowboys football organization in modern times, it's the lack of a meritocracy … [starters] are almost never taken away. … That’s horrible.” — Bob [11:30]
  • “Guys are awarded [jobs] with contracts or draft position and then are almost never taken away.” — Bob [11:45]

• Calling Out Players: George specifically calls for Trayvon Diggs to be benched, even as he acknowledges Diggs is rehabbing injury.

  • “He should not be on the field… I hope Nick Saban didn’t see that [effort] on Sunday. That was embarrassing.” — George [10:04]

Offensive Woes and Injuries

• O-Line Troubles: Injuries to the starting offensive line (including Tyler Booker and Cooper Beebe) further limit options, forcing poor-performing players (like Tyler Guyton) to stay on the field.

  • “If I had enough guys healthy … I’d kick Tyler Smith out to left tackle… go with your best five. That’s been shot to pieces because of injuries.” — George [15:22]

• Measuring Offensive Success: Bob offers statistical nuance, noting strong yardage but fatal failures on third down and in the red zone.

  • “The Cowboys, on a success rate standpoint, had an excellent game… But 3 for 11 on third downs is brutal… red zone, one for four… many drive killers.” — Bob [16:56]
  • “If you got 400 yards, you should have 28 points… If you have 14, then you shot yourself in the foot.” — Bob [18:53]

Team Injuries – Short and Long Term

• Key Players Out: CeeDee Lamb (ankle), Cooper Beebe (center), and Tyler Booker (high ankle sprain)—all sidelined for weeks.

  • “Now, the one side of the ball you felt good about… we're now taking away significant players every week.” — Bob [33:47]

• Running CD Lamb: Minor debate over running CeeDee Lamb out of the backfield leading to his injury—both agree injuries are inevitable in football.

  • “Sometimes football players get hurt playing football and it stinks. … But they are. And that’s one of the deals of this great sport that we love.” — Bob [32:01]

Leadership and Expectations

• Dak Prescott’s Burden: With weapons and blockers dropping like flies, both agree that quarterback Dak Prescott (and coordinator Brian Schottenheimer) must elevate the team.

  • “A lot of this is up to Dak now… let’s make this work. … Everyone’s got these problems.” — George [35:42]
  • “That's what the money’s for… go out there and figure it out.” — Bob, quoting Don Draper [36:17]

• Offensive Potential Remains: Despite injuries, there’s cautious hope—new receivers will get a chance, and the team must “compete.”

  • “It seems like this team… just when you think, man, they have no chance… they will turn around and throw out a game where you think well, okay, maybe they got something.” — George [41:25]

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Nostalgia & Side Topics

Bob’s 1975 Cowboys Retrospective

A palate cleanser mid-show as George and Bob geek out about Bob’s ongoing real-time 50th-anniversary project covering the 1975 "Dirty Dozen" Cowboys.

• Newspaper Deep Dive: Bob reads old Dallas Morning News and Star-Telegram archives daily and shares trivia and context from that era.
  • “I have to tell you, it's so much fun for me… 75 Cowboys Rewind, if you want to follow along on a 50 year old journey.” — Bob [26:41]
• Charm and Lessons: Highlights smaller rosters, blackout rules, and the difference in team-building philosophy from the Landry era.

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Packers Preview: Micah Parsons Returns

The Micah Drama

• Unprecedented Move: Micah Parsons, still in his prime, returns as a Packer after a trade saga nobody saw coming.

  • “I can’t think of another example like this where a guy…here he comes and he's out to annihilate your quarterback.” — George [44:52]
  • “I've never seen anything like this because it's so out of character… I've never seen Jerry say goodbye to a player in his prime.” — Bob [44:54]

• Locker Room & Field Reactions: Bob doesn't expect animosity from players, but immense pride and a determination to not let Micah “be the main character.”

  • “I anticipate that… nothing will be more important [to Jerry] than making sure they at least win the Micah battle.” — Bob [46:26]

Flashbacks: Comparing to Randy Moss

• Thanksgiving 1998: George is haunted by the memory of Randy Moss torching the Cowboys after they passed on him in the draft, pondering if Parsons will have a similar revenge night.
  • “What if [Micah] does go off for three sacks… and the Packers bounce back?” — George [48:07]

Packers’ Strengths and Current Form

• Defense Elevated: Parsons’ presence allows Green Bay’s other strong defenders to thrive, potentially overwhelming the Cowboys’ patchwork line.

  • “He is still that guy… driving teams crazy… now that defense is going to be schemed up to try to cause all manner of headaches.” — Bob [51:05]

• Offensive Issues, But Capable: The Packers are banged up at WR and OL but are unlikely to recreate last year’s playoff demolition.

  • “They’re good. I still think Detroit and Philadelphia are a tier above them, but maybe it’s early and we shall see.” — Bob [54:39]

• Cowboys’ Best Defense: Run the Ball & Limit Mistakes: Bob and George see running and a mistake-free game as the best hope to “steal” a close win.

Notable Defensive Additions and Tactics

• LB Speed: Packers' Edgerrin Cooper (A&M) and Quay Walker (Georgia) are highlighted as super-athletic LBs, making running the ball tough.

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Cowboys-Packers History

• Mike McCarthy/Late Season Trauma: Packers have dominated Cowboys since 2008; losses often preceded or should have precipitated coaching changes (Wade Phillips, Jason Garrett, even McCarthy).

  • “Every game has its own story… I think a Cowboy coach should probably be fired after just about every one.” — Bob [60:31]

• Crowd Warning: Expect significant Packer fan presence; Cowboys may have to use a silent count at home.

  • “I think the Cowboys may have to use a silent count a couple of times on Sunday night.” — George [62:03]

• Regret Over Trading Parsons to a Rival: Both hosts marvel at the short-sightedness of trading Parsons to Green Bay of all teams.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “I almost prefer incompetence to not trying.” — Bob [10:44]
• “We need 22 dogs on this Cowboys field to go out there and compete. … We can't have a garbage season this early.” — Bob [63:33]
• “[Micah is] a Chihuahua that thinks he’s a bulldog … perfect because that little guy just gets hammered out there on the field.” — Bob, referencing Brad Sham’s comment about Kevante Turpin [40:17]

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Key Timestamps

| Time | Segment Description | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:34 | Cowboy defensive collapse after Chicago loss; season outlook | | 03:11 | Film study, league-wide awareness of Dallas's weaknesses | | 05:22 | Bears assistant coach: “Cowboys D is easy to exploit” | | 08:24 | League-worst defensive stats for Cowboys | | 11:30 | Cowboys' lack of accountability and anti-meritocracy | | 16:56 | Measuring offensive “success” & fatal red zone problems | | 26:41 | Bob’s 1975 Cowboys nostalgia project | | 29:05 | CD Lamb, Cooper Beebe, Tyler Booker injuries update | | 32:01 | Should CD Lamb have taken carries at RB; nature of football injuries | | 35:42 | Dak and Schottenheimer must adapt to OL/WR injuries | | 41:25 | Cowboys’ history of bouncing back (“suckering us in again”) | | 44:52 | Micah Parsons homecoming analysis | | 48:07 | Flashback to Thanksgiving 1998, Randy Moss’ revenge game | | 51:05 | Micah’s impact on GB defense, Packers’ scheme vs. Dallas OL | | 54:39 | Packers offense overview; banged-up but still dangerous | | 60:31 | History of Cowboys-Packers matchups leading to Cowboys coaching changes | | 62:03 | Warning about “silent count” due to Packers fans at AT&T Stadium | | 63:33 | “We need 22 dogs… Can't have a garbage season this early.” |

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Conclusion

This episode is a must-listen for die-hard Cowboys (or Packers) fans seeking unfiltered insight, historical context, and honest frustration. George and Bob capture the blend of existential angst, nostalgia, and ridiculous unpredictability at the heart of the modern Cowboys—and preview a Packers game loaded with emotion, risk, and revenge.

Verdict:

• Can the Cowboys clean up their defense, adapt offensively to injuries, and avoid a Parsons-powered humiliation? As always, The Musers will be back next week—win, lose, or draw.

Transcript

[Kelly Clarkson]

It's Kelly Clarkson here to talk all things Wayfair. The best place to buy furniture, decor and anything else you can think of to create a home you absolutely love. I know when I shop with Wayfair I find options for every style. Whether I'm feeling boho or farmhouse, modern, traditional French country, I can find exactly what I need for my home and more. No matter your space, style or budget. Shopwayfair.com to make your home way more you Wayfair Every style, every home.

[George Dunham]

It's the Musers the Podcast Cowboys Edition. I'm George Dunham along with my football friend Bob Sturm, and the Cowboys are now one and two following a debacle at Soldier Field in Chicago. This week is Green Bay week and we are well fortified to talk about that because Bob grew up in Green Bay and now he lives and now he lives in Dallas and knows everything there is to know about the Cowboys.

[Bob Sturm]

I don't want to steal Valor George Born Green Bay adjacent, but a good two hours down the road in the outskirts of Madison. So I, I don't want anyone thinking that I grew up next to Lombardi's house.

[George Dunham]

Well, no, not next to Lombardi's house, but you have incredible Packer knowledge and you have watched every play since Micah has become a Packer and we're going to talk about that here in a little bit.

[Bob Sturm]

But every place since John Brockington and Turdell Middleton were their running back.

[George Dunham]

I remember John Brockington. 32.

[Bob Sturm]

42, I think.

[George Dunham]

42. All right. I knew there's a two in there somewhere.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

Okay. Let's not let the grading get put off any longer of what happened in Chicago. Look, we've been saying for the last couple of weeks this Cowboy season is going to be an adventure. It is going to be up and down. This team will thrill you, they will frustrate you. And having said all of that and I didn't, I didn't really have high expectations necessarily for this season. I was interested in a lot of things about this team. I cannot believe where they are right now after three games. Defensively they have. I think they've gotten progressively worse defensively. They played a solid second half and certainly post rain delay in the Philadelphia game. They were shredded by the Giants and they were gutted by the Bears. Bob, I've just never including 2020 when the Cowboys were terrible defensively, 89 when they were 1 in 15. I don't think I've ever seen worse zone defense played than whatever it is the Cowboys are playing right now, and especially in that Bears game, it's truly remarkable.

[Bob Sturm]

They, you know, it's a. It's a merciless league. We know that. Word gets around. And the film, it's interesting because you could argue in week one, there is a assumption by your opponent that you are pretty good. You know, maybe that they're going on last year's information, or maybe they've read magazines. But the thing about not playing at all in the preseason is that there is an air of mystery about your quality, and most NFL teams will be cautious in assuming you're incompetent. So. So week one is sort of. They're respecting you at a way that once word gets out, the respect will diminish unless you earn it on the film. And so I don't really think the Eagles explored what you were bad at. But then the Giants probably saw that big Eagles pass play and said, huh, let's dig a little deeper here. This is what we like to do. And then the Giants sort of pulled your pants down for the entire NFL. And now it might be a feeding frenzy until it gets fixed, because clearly, Ben Johnson had absurd levels of ideas, and I don't believe he accessed most of them. If you look at their five giant pass plays, which combined went for 201 yards, I think it is easy to say that all of them were in the first half, meaning, I don't know, were they saving some for next time or for next opponent? And they, they. They might have felt a little weird about, you know, using more than they needed. I don't know. There's. There's theories to that. But. But now the word is out. So now, whether it's Matt lafleur or Dave Canales or you just go down the list of upcoming opponents, I do think now, because there's no mercy in this league, the Cowboys have a chance to be the worst defense in the NFL until they get this cleaned up. And that is now job 1, 2, and 3 moving forward.

[George Dunham]

Our friend Ed Werder, longtime writer, football writer for the Dallas Morning News, now works for Channel 8 in Dallas, also does a podcast. He's out covering the NFL and the Cowboys. He said he talked to a Bears assistant coach this week, and that assistant coach told him, yeah, we knew they were not good on defense and a scheme that's far too simplistic. And see, I at least gave him the benefit of the doubt of maybe they're trying to do some wizardry here that I don't even know about.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, but.

[George Dunham]

But at the NFL level, they See, whatever they're doing is really elementary, easy to exploit, and that's exactly what they did. They ran a great flea flicker to Luther Burton the third.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

I would say they probably should have saved that play because you don't have to run a flea flicker to get a receiver wide ass open against this defense right now.

[Bob Sturm]

No. And we're in a spot where people want to know, well, whose fault, who's busting, what's going on here? And I think the major issue is on that flea flicker. And I put a still photo online because it's kind of funny in a sad sort of way that it's difficult to decide who's at fault on that play. But most people will look at the deep safety, Malik Hooker, and the reality is that poor Malik Hooker is dealing with the most sinking of feelings because he's got two guys running at different points of the field right at him and he can't cover both of them. And whichever one he chooses, Caleb's going to throw at the other guy. Now, you could argue he chose poorly because if, if I got a guy running, let's say a sail route or a corner to the opposite corner, and then I have a guy running a go, which is just a vertical attack on the opposing end zone, I probably as a safety need to take the most dangerous guy and then hope that my help can come get the guy who's not quite as deep. So Malik Hooker kind of got caught in no man's land, so he's guarding nobody. But I really honestly think he can't be blamed at all because, you know, you and I are good enough at math to know one guy can't cover two in this league. And so, yeah, so Bert Burden's open behind him and I forget who it was. Zach Kias is open in front of him and the other 10 Cowboys defenders are kind of doing what Jerry wanted them to do back when he did his last press conference, which is stop the run. They're all trying to stop the run, which of course doesn't make any sense to any of us who constantly call this a passing league. And so as I look at the rankings right now, I see The Cowboys are 32nd in passing yards allowed.

[George Dunham]

900 in three games.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes, 32nd in passing yards per play with a comical 9.4 yards per play, 32nd and third down conversions, and 30th in yards against. And I assume, are they 32nd in points against?

[George Dunham]

No, no, they're 28th or something like that.

[Bob Sturm]

Or are there five teams worse at allowing points than the Cowboys.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, I don't know because this has been hot garbage these last two weeks and I think this is what bothers me about it the most. And going back to the Eagles game, which what was so encouraging about that, what I really wanted against the Eagles. Hey, just compete. Show us. Yes, you got something. And I thought the offense did and I think at times the defense did, stopping the run. I thought they played Saquon Barkley. Well, Hertz ran all over him in the first half, but, you know, maybe it was the 12th defender, the weather delay that got him. But I just didn't see a defense competing. I didn't see some guys on offense competing. If you don't know the snap count and you're going to whiff like Tyler Guyton did at left tackle. Holy smokes. What are we doing here? And okay, this is really old school. I'll take you back to 8th grade football. I remember we had a terrible game and I really thought the next week I was going to get a chance to play because Coach Saucier said every job is open.

[Bob Sturm]

Right, Right.

[George Dunham]

And I know you can't do that in the NFL, but I think you could do it at a few spots.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

And I'll start with Trayvon Diggs. I'll give him some credit for trying to play through rehabbing an injury, but I'm sorry, Bob, he, he should not be on the field. And I don't care if it's Stuart ready or whoever you want to put in his place, put somebody else in his place because either he's not into the zone, which he doesn't look to be, he doesn't like run support, as we all know, and he got his shoulder dinged against Chicago. And then there's one attempt at man was the most pitiful thing, especially for a guy who's from Alabama. I hope Nick Saban didn't see that on Sunday. That was embarrassing.

[Bob Sturm]

I, I really think this is the, the heart of the matter. I, I, I will stop short of questioning effort levels for now. I want to, I want to at least say that's, that's my, the last thing I do because I feel like that is the ultimate sin in professional football is, is effort level. I almost prefer incompetence to not trying.

[George Dunham]

Okay, I'll go with that.

[Bob Sturm]

So, so I'll, I'll cop out on incompetence, which, which, which you know, is, is, is not necessarily a compliment either. I will say though, the, the heart of the matter of the Jerry Jones, Dallas Cowboys, you know this was not covered in the Netflix documentary, but. But I think we could get into it here as football friends and just say, if I were to call in my biggest problem with the Cowboys football organization in modern times, it's the lack of a meritocracy, a lack of feeling like guys have to compete for jobs and compete to keep jobs. I feel like they are awarded often with contracts or draft position and then they are almost never taken away. And I think that is what keeps you from entering the upper crust of the National Football League, because I do think there are still organizations where you will be benched. If we think we have a better idea and if you're performance is hurting us, we will yank you off the field and you won't get back out there. And I just think the Cowboys are too reluctant to do that. And I think that goes back to any manner of draft picks who are just handed a starting job without even having to prove that they're better than the guy who is there. And I just, I think that's, at its core, I think that's horrible. And so right now, how does that apply to this? Well, it applies to this that right now I do think especially on the defense, there should be 11 jobs that are probably open and. And I don't. I honestly don't see such a standout player anymore. With the possible exception of OSA Odigizua and Kenny Clark, I'm willing to say those are my two number one defensive tackles. Those two have been my best performers on defense so far.

[George Dunham]

And Solomon Thomas is right behind him and he's in the rotation.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, I think that position has been fixed. And so it's actually the ultimate, I suppose, fable or truth fairy tale where we learn a good life lesson, that they wanted to stop the run and fix defensive tackle George. So they did, at the expense of every single other thing breaking. And so I won't fight you on Diggs or Donovan Wilson or Kenneth Murray or you just want to start going down the list of guys. Like, I don't believe anybody should be guaranteed a job after what we're seeing right now. And gosh, if I thought switching out my coordinator would help, I would have to give that a lot of thought right now. I know three weeks is not enough for Matt Eberfluss, especially since you took his best player from him on the dawn of the season, but, you know, this has to be labeled as nothing short of unacceptable because the Giants game can happen. I'm not thrilled about it, but the Giants game can happen. But the response to be debatably worse in Chicago the next week. You'd like to think you're inspired, you'd like to think you're determined. If nothing else, we're going to run a proper zone defense or we're going to run, you know, a proper pass coverage to just shut up our haters. And they actually did a worse job. And so for that, frustration is bubbling over outside the star, but inside the star. I'd like to know that there's some level of consequences for this happening two weeks in a row and what could be now three weeks in a row, because I think their next opponent is probably more capable of embarrassing them and will probably try to show no mercy. And so now you're saying I need a response and I need it now, guys. And I actually needed it last week. But that was even worse than the Giants game, in my opinion.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, it really was. And we're about to talk about injuries, but I wanted to point this, you can't do anything about this right now because of injuries to an offensive line that's all of a sudden been hit pretty hard. And I don't mean to pick on Tyler Guyton, but yeah, we've talked about it all week on our winner station in Dallas. The ticket. You start pointing out things like false start when it's third and three, turning that into a third and eight and that you have to settle for a field goal allowing Robinson just to run right by you and what a terrible. Again compete. Very little competitiveness on a guy to your left and he kills your quarterback. Drive killer. Now it's third and 15 and you have to punt in the third quarter on your first possession. You can't do this because of injury. But I would say Tyler Guyton has played so poorly and especially after the Chicago game, if I could do it, if I had enough guys healthy, I'm sorry, I'd kick Tyler Smith out the left tackle and I would. Let's say you still had Cooper BB have him at center and in the guy who's playing center right now, I'd put him at left guard and I would go with your best five linemen that's been shot to pieces because of injuries and now you got to patchwork this thing together. But in other words, the offense is not immune to this either. I would make changes on offense if I could.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. So real quick on the offense, not nearly as embarrassing because they did play competent offense. In fact, on a down by down basis. And I don't know where you are on the success rate statistic. But I do like success rate because I do think when you're evaluating over the course of a game, there are 60 to 70 offensive plays and sometimes your bacon can be saved by like two big ones. But, but what success rate does is it measures, you know, basically your batting average per snap. And you know, success rate is defined as on first down you get 40% of the yards, you get 4 yards or more. On second down you get at half of what you need for the first down. Into that third down, you convert the third down. So that's how you get a successful play or a not successful play. It's a very objective measure. And the Cowboys on a success rate standpoint had an excellent game. They really did. And they ran the ball well and they gained yardage on most plays and they were very, very good. I mean the dude, they had 396 yards and, and trust me, that is winning football from a 396 yard standpoint. That you'll have a winning record for sure. The problem of course is many. 3 for 11 on third downs is brutal. Turnover, four giveaways is brutal. Now three of them were in the fourth quarter and you were already down 17, so it's tough to fully blame that. But red zone, you were one for four. So all they were inefficient, you know, everything they needed to do to the old Bill Parcells thing. And I don't know how you feel about this, but I've always believed it. Bill Parcells told us once upon a time, probably several times, that you should get seven points for every 100 yards.

[George Dunham]

Agreed.

[Bob Sturm]

And so if you got 400 yards, you should have 28 points. And if you don't have 28 points, if you have 14, well then you shot yourself in the foot way too often. You mentioned drive killers, penalty sacks, turnovers. These are all. Absolutely. The goal of every drive is to end it with a kick. Extra points are preferred, field goals are next, and then punts are your last resort. But you can't give the ball away and you can't settle for three when the opponent's scoring seven. All these obvious things. So, so they, there's hope for the offense, but what they need is a lack of mental mistakes. And I do think their quarterback continues to play really high level football. It's going to get harder because we're going to keep taking pieces away from him. But what they need now is this young offensive line to grow up and they're having trouble doing that. They're running the ball pretty well and they're going to need some of these young wide receivers to grow up as well. And really what it means is you have to cash in on your chances and you know, again, you can't get 400 yards and walk away with no points. And so I think I heard Junes make the point that the offense should not skate from this performance either, and I couldn't agree more. Yeah, they underperformed as well. Now there's reasons for it, such as losing CD Lamb just a few snaps into the game and such as Javante Williams being stripped of a ball on a play that I'm not sure I've ever seen before. So a couple fluky things happened and you took those two moments and then add them to the Roma Dunes a Trayvon Diggs falls down and then the flea flicker and you have four absolute punches to your face within like five minutes of the first quarter. And honestly, that's the game.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, no doubt.

[Bob Sturm]

And you don't even make it to the second quarter against the Chicago Bears, who enter the game with zero confidence. You got that stadium rocking and it just turned into a giant mess.

[George Dunham]

Well, and now injuries are a problem, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Let's go there next and how the Cowboys will survive missing three starters.

[Kelly Clarkson]

It's Kelly Clarkson here to talk all things Wayfair. The best place to buy furniture, decor and anything else you can think of to create a home you absolutely love. I know when I shop with Wayfair, I find options for every style. Whether I'm feeling boho or farmhouse, modern traditional French country. I can find exactly what I need for my home and more. No matter your space, style or budget. Shopwayfair.com to make your home way more you way fair.

[George Dunham]

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[George Dunham]

It's the Musers, the podcast Cowboys Edition Football Friends, it's Giorgio and Bob. And before we get to Cowboy injuries, which are starting to mount on the offensive side, let's illustrate what a football nut Bob is who starts a project in 2025 on the 50th anniversary of the 1975 Dallas Cowboys. And he started this back January, February, somewhere.

[Bob Sturm]

I got serious about it around draft time. Yeah, leading into the draft.

[George Dunham]

And that was a very significant Cowboys draft known as the Dirty Dozen.

[Bob Sturm]

That's right.

[George Dunham]

That's when Randy White was selected and a whole host of other guys who made a big impact. Hollywood Henderson, who would be on a winning super bowl team just a couple years later, and that team would become the first wild card team to go to the Super Bowl. And that was, of course, the Hail Mary game in Minneapolis.

[Bob Sturm]

That's right.

[George Dunham]

And they beat a very good Vikings team that was heavily favored, then knocked off the Rams, then lost to the Steelers 2117 in Super Bowl 10. So a fascinating year for a lot of people. And I told you, whatever it was eight months ago, that was the year that I really became a Cowboys fan. I remember the year before. I remember Clint Longley throwing the two touchdown passes to Drew Pearson on Thanksgiving in 74. And maybe that's what got me dialed in in 75, because I was. I was in and that was my team.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, I love history so much, and I love NFL history. But I was, you know, three years old when 1975 was going down, and so I have no memories of anything. And if I did, it would have been the stinko packers with trading for John Hadel and just being awful in the start of, you know, two decades in the wilderness themselves. But I started doing this project just because it seemed, first of all, like a fun thing to do. A couple years ago, I got to watch. I got to do something extremely cool before the Athletic fired me, which is I went to Drew Pearson's house and watched the Hail Mary game in full with him because I talked to him and he had never seen the broadcast. And I said let's fix that. When do you want to do this? And he was very accommodating. And so I brought over my laptop and we pretty much sat at his kitchen table and he brought out some artifacts, including a helmet Fran Tarkenton signed to him. And just all these cool things. And so I watched that game knowing the story of the Hail Mary, but obviously zero context of what the 75 Cowboys journey was like. And then, you know, people are so down on the present day Cowboys that.

[George Dunham]

That I thought we were a happier time. Yeah, well, I thought, yeah, I mean, I thought the.

[Bob Sturm]

For the 50th anniversary of Super Bowl 10. And then I'm like, maybe we should watch that. And then of course, because my eyes are bigger than my stomach, I said, you know what? I want to go through the whole season. And then because I'm a real psycho, I went and bought a subscription to Newspapers.com where I can read the Dallas Morning News and the Fort Worth Star Telegram every day in real time. Fifty years ago, not in real time. And then I opened a Twitter account that basically allows people to go along for the journey. So it's a very, very niche audience that wants to know about every day of the 1975 season. And I don't mean every game day, George. I mean every day.

[George Dunham]

Transactions, everything.

[Bob Sturm]

Transactions, practice reports, you know, just columns thinking about last game or the upcoming opponent. And I have to tell you, it's so much fun for me. I don't know if there's a big audience. I think there's 13 or 1400 people that are following this tiny little. But it's 75 cowboys rewind. If you want to follow along on a 50 year old journey just because. And I'm having a great time. I'm learning how football worked back then. There are so many things that I guess I knew or didn't know and just times have changed in so many ways. For instance, 43 man rosters. The draft was in January. The Cowboys opener had 20,000 tickets available and it was blacked out in Dallas. And so that blackouts were a big.

[George Dunham]

Thing in the 70s and early 80s, a huge thing.

[Bob Sturm]

And you bring it up and everybody has stories about going to see their aunt Carol and Waco Sherman or Tyler or whatever to get outside the blackout zone. So there's so many things here. And of course it's Tom Landry and Roger Staubach and Randy White and just that whole crew. So I'm having the time of my life. Like I said, it's for an extremely tiny AUDIENCE. I just bought the 1975 Topps football set online because I wanted all the football cards from that. And I have a couple yearbooks. Here's The Gridiron News 1975 Pro Yearbook.

[George Dunham]

Is that dang Bradshaw?

[Bob Sturm]

So it's, it's, it's, it's fun as heck. And, and I think you'll love it. So maybe in the off season we could take a look at some old games.

[George Dunham]

Love it, man. I want to hear. Yeah, I missed that article with Drew. I love to relive some of that. Maybe in December when we get back to the Hail Mary game. Okay, fast Forward to the 2025 Cowboys offense has had moments here in the first three weeks of the season, but now they are without CD Lamb. They are without Cooper Beebe at center. That's why you had Hoffman last week at that position.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

And now we find out Tyler Booker high ankle sprain is out for six weeks, maybe shorter. It seems like both of these guys, the team is throwing out optimistic return dates. High ankle sprains, man, those things can be nasty.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, for sure. Especially for somebody who's running pass routes like CD Lamb does. So I'm far less optimistic about an early return than Jerry is. But Jerry's always optimistic. Remember when Romo broke his collarbone on Thanksgiving and Jerry would not pull the plug on him and not even give up the hope that year that he could be back, you know, like by Christmas or something dumb. And it's just, it's. I don't know why he does that, but that is part of Jerry being Jerry is that he's always going to give you the best case scenario for a recovery time. I'm curious from you. Are you one of those folks that are extra upset how CD Got hurt given that he was playing running back? I'm curious where you fall.

[George Dunham]

No, I'm somewhere in between. My broadcast partner Craig's not happy about it. And I will say this on that side of the ledger, if you are going to run CD I don't necessarily want to run him out of the backfield in traffic. And I would like an escort for him of a couple of offensive linemen or at least a pulling tight end in front of him to where he's not going to get caught up in the wash like he did. I'm not crazy about it, but at the same time, I think it's an interesting weapon. I think it's an interesting wrinkled. But at the. Yes, he is different than DJ Moore or Debo Samuel. He's a. Yeah, he's just a different guy who's not made for that, I don't think. What do you think?

[Bob Sturm]

Well, I feel like we've seen it a couple dozen times over the course of his career. And so what I hate in, in football public world is that we are so quick to second guess decisions that don't go right.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

And when CD Is getting you a first down from the running back position or if he's running a jet sweep, like, honestly, how different is it when you're running a jet sweep or an end around than from actually taking a handoff? Like, as far as putting yourself in danger, is, is it fractional? Is there, is there a difference at all? I. I don't know. On that play, it looked to me like Brock Hoffman had a trouble getting off his first block and couldn't get to the linebacker. So the linebacker is just freight training CD At a full sprint. And then it kind of looked like almost one of those hip drops a little bit, although he didn't grab them on the nameplate. So the league doesn't know how to enforce that. I honestly, I think where I net out on this, Georgie, is I want them to get CD Lamb the ball in every way possible. And that would qualify. And sometimes football players get hurt playing football and it stinks. And the Cowboys can't afford it. Let's not kid ourselves. They cannot afford to lose CD Lamb for a month. But they are. And that's one of the deals of this great sport that we love. But we also forget how much we hate it every off season and we come back into the season and we're like, dog gone. These injuries just drive me crazy. I wish injuries didn't happen in football, but you can't have football without injuries. And so we forget this every year or we get dulled to it and then it comes back and cuts us like a knife. Like, there are so many injuries in the sport. Yeah, they're absolutely killing each other out there. And what's crazy about it is then you get another group of fans that say, put skirts on them because they don't play as physical as they used to. You know that's not true. The rules have become more litigious, if you will, but that's only because the players are bigger, faster, stronger, and they will all murder each other if we do not try to consider player safety. So I think the game is in.

[George Dunham]

Some ways more dangerous now because of exactly what you said. Yeah, the collisions are more violent now. It's. I mean, you had a guy Returning a blocked field goal that is £300 running 18 miles an hour last Sunday. So, yeah, you have to have more.

[Bob Sturm]

Rules because the players are more dangerous.

[George Dunham]

Yes, absolutely.

[Bob Sturm]

So. So it's. It stinks. CD Being gone hurts. Tyler Booker being gone. It kills you. Cooper. BB as well. I mean, it's. Yeah. So now the. The one side of the ball you felt good about, we're now taking away significant players every week and say, you know, now we're like, so you still think you're good, you know, and that's just where we are right now.

[George Dunham]

Well, and I will say this. I. I've been a fan of the way the quarterback has played in the first three weeks. For the most part. He had some moments in the Bears game that weren't as pretty as what we saw the first couple of weeks, but still, he made plays. He put them in position to score certainly more than the 14 points that they ended up with. I played golf with somebody today that sees it's an end around way of getting to a point, but he sees Patrick Mahomes a lot. It was Hank Keeney, one of the greatest amateur golfers of all time and professional golfer. Now he's a head pro at a Dallas area club where Patrick Mahomes plays in the off season. And we got to talking about Mahomes. He's seen him interact with his teammates and his teammates. It's almost like they're playing with a king that they have anointed more than they are their teammate. They just love the guy.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

And he finds a way. There are times where the Chiefs are so depleted, it's like, who is this receiver they just signed? Kelsey's getting older. They've got injuries in the offensive line, but they still make it to the playoffs and sometimes the Super Bowl. And I guess that's sometimes unfair that we have that expectation of a star quarterback. Hey, be. Be the best in the league. But I think a lot of this is up the DAC now. Okay. You're missing two linemen, you're missing your guy on the outside, but let's make this work. And I think it falls to Brian Schottenheimer, too. Let's make this work. Let's not just fall back on the excuse of we're missing three starters. They play the packers this week. How many packers are out in the offensive line now? Two or three?

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, probably two. Could be as many as three. They're banged up.

[George Dunham]

Everybody's got. In other words, everyone's got these problems.

[Bob Sturm]

Yep.

[George Dunham]

So let's. Let's see it for. Let's. Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

No, I mean, and you have a.

[George Dunham]

Running game now that will actually work. And as far as the offensive linemen that are in there now, I don't know what you thought of Hoffman's play. I thought it was decent. I haven't gone through every play for him, but he's played next to TJ Bass several times. Bass is okay. You've got some depth there. I still think you have enough. Enough to be a functioning offense.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, the. The thing about the offensive line as it gets depleted is he just gets smaller and less physical. Not to say they don't play a physical style. They're just smaller guys and they're just not as strong. And so I'm worried about what that does to the running game, and I'm worried about what that does to what, you know, the types of runs you're able to pull off. It's way different with Tyler Booker coming around the corner on a pole lead or on a power play than it is with with TJ Bass or Brock Hoffman. They're just. Hoffman, in particular, is a really small dude. Relatively speaking, he's way bigger than we are. So. So that's a issue. But. But back to your Dak point. And, you know, I said this, I think, on our first episode. You know, if you have a quarterback and a coach that are dialed and that are really, really, really good, you have a chance in this league. And, you know, when we say, well, that's putting so much on your quarterback. Yeah. As Don Draper said, and I quote this all the time, that's what the money's for. Yeah, that's. That's. You know, if we didn't think you were really good, there wouldn't be a lot of money going to your account every week. But that's what the money's for. We're sorry that it's going to, you know, cause bruises. And we're also sorry you're going to get blamed for everything if we're unsuccessful. But, yeah, go out there and figure it out. Now, to Dax credit. I love where he is mentally. I really, really do. And I also love where he is. I feel like he is. So I feel like young Dak was scared to express himself, and he was sort of, let me just do my job and sort of lead by example. And I think now Dak does feel like this is his outfit, probably because it is. But this is up to him to keep it together, to lead the guys emotionally and to be there and to encourage and to be the last guy to tap out because things are tough and just all that stuff. And I love that out of him this year. And I think there's a lot more to give and I think Sunday night will be a real challenge to him in many, many ways. And you know, this thing is, this thing badly needs a win. But I will also say a win Sunday is not, not impossible by any stretch of the imagination. Now, they will be dogs, but at the same time, you know, they're, they do have a talented team. And this is the National Football League. That's really the biggest takeaway is in the National. These teams, the bad ones, are all loaded with great football players and they can beat you on any given Sunday. And that's not just a cliche. We will not play a best of seven series. You will play one game where one play can, can turn the game on its ear. And so that's how, that's the mentality you have to enter these games with. And the offense still has pieces, really good pieces that can make things happen.

[George Dunham]

I.

[Bob Sturm]

The reason we would get pessimistic is it doesn't work over the long term when you lose guys like that. But over the short term, you can steal a win and flip your season on its ear. Perhaps. So, so that has to be the goal, is just make Green Bay work for, you know, for, for their points. And then you can't leave with field goals or turnovers. And so, you know, that's, that's obvious. But, but that's where they're at right now. They have no margin for error and they've been full of errors in these first three weeks. And so, you know, some guys are going to get a chance. We talk about, it's not, you know, not a meritocracy. Well, okay, Ryan Flournoy, you're going to get a chance now. Jaden Blue might get a chance. Now. There's, there's a number of guys that have been waiting for the Cowboys to call their number. Kevante Turpin has answered the bell really, really well. And now we wonder, now we wonder if he can stay healthy because I love what Brad Sham said about him, which is, I think his quote was, kevonte Turpin is a Chihuahua that thinks he's a bulldog or a pit bull. And that's really funny, but perfect because that little guy who barely weighs 150 pounds just gets hammered out there on the field. And you wonder, can you keep getting up and keep going back to the huddle and asking for more? Because if you can. We're going to keep feeding you the ball because you're actually making a lot of really nice plays.

[George Dunham]

Well, the thing I like about him, it's what I started this whole thing with compete. Get out there and compete. And not just, but yeah, if Blue gets his chance this week, compete and, and show us why you should be on the field more. And that's the theme of this year. Compete every day. That's why they've been playing ping pong and shooting baskets at the star. Let's see it. Let's take that to the field. And I'm with you. It seems like this team in the 31 year drought without a Super Bowl. One thing that has been consistent about them has been just when you think, man, they have no chance, they're so bad and they will turn around and throw out a game where you think, well, okay, maybe they got something and we all get suckered in again. But okay, let's, let's go there next because here comes Micah, here come the packers and I would say at Texas Stadium, the Cotton bowl, the new stadium. I don't think we've ever seen something like this. And let's talk about that next.

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[George Dunham]

Over. Roger, wait.

[Bob Sturm]

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Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. Start converting your B2B audience today. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started [e-mail] campaign terms and conditions apply. It's the Musers, the podcast Cowboys edition. Football friends, George Dunham, Bob Sturm, Cowboys and Packers, Sunday night Football. And here comes Micah Parsons, the man who demanded a trade. And we all thought that was just posturing. We did say, and I think our station in Dallas the ticket as this Micah Saga was going on through the spring and then the summer, and then in the training camp with the hold in in California. I heard this so much and I said it a lot. This just seems different. Something's different here. Something's not adding up. This. This doesn't seem like it's going well. And it talked to a few people at the Star and they were very dug in saying, hey, we had a deal back in March. And he said this and they said that. And then the next thing you know, he's traded the Green Bay. He's your best defender, some say the best on your team. And now he's a Packer. Let's start here. I know Emmett Smith came back late in his career, but he was not traded away and he was very late in his career. I just. I can't. From a Cowboys perspective, I can't think of another example like this where a guy who's been traded away and here he comes and he's out to annihilate your quarterback.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, I've never seen anything like this because it's so out of character and I don't want to be a broken record, but that was the weirdest thing about the trade. And, you know, even going back to the trade demand, I'll tell you, I don't believe for a second Micah ever thought he was going to be playing anywhere else. I think he, you know, like in negotiations in any of our lives, if you work in a job where you have to go toe to toe with the big boss man, you might say something, but you're. It's a total bluff to just try to get your way. And I believe that's what Micah was doing. He wanted his money for sure. He wanted the respect that goes with, you're the highest paid guy at this position in the National Football League. But he wasn't trying to get away from the Dallas Cowboys. He loved it here. So I do think this is going to really work his brain. It's going to be weird for him. It's going to be weird for the Cowboys and for their fans. But really, when you talk about like a homecoming or something of that nature, I've never seen Jerry say goodbye to a player in his prime, and I've certainly never seen it in a way that felt like there was animosity. And I don't know if any of his former teammates will have animosity for him. I doubt it. You know, players these days, and just to see him on a Cowboy roster, it seemed like, you know, there were some who had an issue with, like, podcasting and maybe his worldview on just, you know, working out or whatever the case may be. But I think most people found him pleasant and fun and obviously a freak on the football field. So I don't know that the teammates have animosity now. I do know they have pride. And so there will be a lot of guys that will be like, I don't care what happens, that guy cannot be the main character of this story on Sunday night. So I anticipate. I anticipate that. But as far as the owner's box, I assume nothing will be more important to them than making sure that they at least win the MICA battle, if not the entire game, and nothing would make them happier. This is probably the game they want most this season for this weird reason that they sort of created. There's a lot of layers to this. I would like to. To assume they will try to run right at Micah to prove that he can't stop the run somehow. I don't know. It's a weird thing to play out in your head, isn't it?

[George Dunham]

Very weird. And this is different. But I'm going to relate it to another time in Cowboys history. If you go back to 1998 and the Cowboys had a chance to take Randy Moss and they didn't, they took Greg Ellis, who was a very solid defensive end and played well for him, but they could have had Randy Moss, right? And Randy Moss and the Minnesota Vikings came in here and just dismantled the Cowboys. And I want to say he scored three touchdowns, and two of them look kind of like the Bears game this past Sunday where he was just running wide open and he just. Yeah, he just shredded the Cowboys secondary. And I remember Viking fans were going crazy. He was on the sidelines celebrating. And I keep having flashbacks to that to try to imagine what Sunday night could be like. I'm not saying it will be like that, but, man, what if he does go off for three sacks? The Cowboys offense looks terrible, and Micah and the packers bounce back from whatever that was in Cleveland last week.

[Bob Sturm]

Well, yeah. I mean, from a standpoint of the Green Bay mentality, I think that's well said by you because it was clear that day, which was my first year in Dallas, 1998, and my first Thanksgiving where I had to explain to my wife that, look, I'm in Dallas, I get to work Thanksgiving. I don't have to work Thanksgiving.

[George Dunham]

That's right. It was Thanksgiving, too.

[Bob Sturm]

This is an honor. Yeah. So the whole universe was watching Madden and Somer all were there and you could tell every guy on the Vikings wanted to help Randy Moss humiliate Jerry Jones. And now that you put that thought in my head, I do know one thing most professional football players love to do and that is to try to humiliate a billionaire whenever they get the chance. And then also losing to the Cleveland Browns on Sunday, there's a lot of things at work that probably suggest Green Bay is going to attempt to put their best foot forward. And part of that will be to line Micah up in the a gap between Brock Hoffman and TJ Bass and then to use him as a decoy or to use him. You know, they're going to want to scheme things for him, but they're also going to want to use him to occupy four linemen so that somebody else can get the dac. So I would expect Green Bay to put a lot of work into this game plan. I don't know what that means and I don't know if it will be effective. But yeah, the Thanksgiving 1998 Vikings effort is a good shout because that game was ugly and it probably felt like it took about seven hours for Jerry Jones watching from above because yeah, and.

[George Dunham]

Especially from that perspective of you need players, you may have a problem with this guy, but you need guys like this and if you don't have them, you're going to get hammered. I saw a lot of the Packers Lions game. I saw a lot of packers commanders. At some point this week I want to go back and look at the all 22. I've not done that yet of Browns and Packers. You've watched every snap.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, it's bad.

[George Dunham]

And I heard you say this this week and I noticed this too in the times that I've watched their defense. He, Micah is definitely getting double teamed and that has opened it up for his teammates up front.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, yeah, they, they've got some really good pass rushers but they didn't have that dude. And having that dude makes all of those really good pass rushers look like animals because now they're getting just these ideal matchups and they're getting single teamed and everything. And so you know, I mean, I know there's a, there's a coping mechanism. Anytime you send a player away, whether you know it's Micah or Luka or any of these guys, he wasn't really this good or he wasn't really trying that hard. Trust me, I'm watching these games. I've watched every snap of Micah Parsons career. He's still that guy. He is still driving Teams crazy. He is still a problem. And so I don't know if they're going to roll him up against Tyler Guyton or up against Terence Steele or in that a gap between Hoffman and Bass, but he's going to be ready and he's, and that defense is going to be schemed up with Jeff Halfley's, you know, defense to try to cause all manner of, of headaches. And so Dak, I know will be prepared. I just wonder if that offensive line will be prepared because, because Green Bay is, is, is absolutely going to attempt to wreck that game defensively. And honestly, for three straight games, Green Bay's defense has looked like no Green Bay defense has looked since Reggie White and Leroy Butler were doing their damage in the mid-90s. So they've never had a world class defense. And, and it's not just because of Micah. They were very good last year. But adding Micah has, has, has I think elevated their defense to where that probably for the first time in ever is actually the stronger side of the ball.

[George Dunham]

Well, I'm sure some Cowboy fans think, well, they only scored 10 points against ridiculous Cleveland last week. Yeah, the Browns defense looks nothing like the Cowboys defense has looked in the first three weeks of the season.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes. And I would also say first of all it was bad. Green Bay was playing with, with out several starters on their offensive line. You're not trying to make excuses, but it was one of those weird road games where you get a lead against a horrendously incompetent opponent. There's Joe Flacco and the Browns and, and so it's ugly. But you're up like 10 nothing and you're kind of trying to get out of there and, and not try anything stupid. So they, they were very conservative and kind of tried to sit on 10 nothing, kind of thinking that that's what they would do and of course that that bit them. And it's sort of a tale as old as time. They're a pretty good offense, but they're also trying to figure out their wide receiver spot. Matthew golden has not broken out yet. They lost Jaden Reed. They still don't have Christian Watson. So they're kind of in this weird. Who are our wide receivers and our offensive line is banged up. So I don't think you have to worry about what we saw in that playoff game in 2023 where I think the packers might have scored a touchdown. Unlike their first six possessions. I don't, I don't think they're capable of that.

[George Dunham]

But the game that wrecked the Cowboys franchise. The playoff game.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, yeah. They're still trying to recover. I think it's been, it's been dark times since that playoff game or I guess since before that playoff game started. But it's just, you know, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a decent offense. Tucker Kraft is probably their most exciting player and he's got a bad ankle right now. I'm, I'm sure he'll play, but he's not fully right since that Thursday night game against Washington. So they're, they're good. I still think Detroit and Philadelphia are a tier above them, but, but maybe, maybe it's early and we shall see.

[George Dunham]

Well, and maybe the Cowboys best defense right now is doing something in offense, playing keep away without making mistakes, finishing off those drives. Quinch on Judkins, I really like for Cleveland. He averaged 5 yards of carry against them. The Cowboys have run the ball well. There's, there's one way they may be able to hang in this thing.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, I think Judkins probably aided that with a nice long one as I recall. But, but, but yeah, he's.

[George Dunham]

He.

[Bob Sturm]

They can be run on. Sure, they don't have Kenny Clark, but I'll tell you where they're good. And this doesn't get talked about, but they're so good at linebacker right now and, and they got Edger and Cooper from A and M and they also have what's his name from Georgia at the other linebacker spot. They took him high up in the first round as well. And now I'm blanking out. George.

[George Dunham]

Well, they've invested in their defense for sure.

[Bob Sturm]

Walker.

[George Dunham]

Quay Walker. Yeah, there you go.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, so. So they have two linebackers who both run like sub four or five and yeah, I know it's modern day NFL, but that's, that's where they cause problems. Like I said a couple weeks ago, if you're going to do a trade with Green Bay, first of all, I wouldn't recommend it because that's crazy given the rivalry between these two teams. But, but more than anything, I got to get Edgerton Cooper back. And you know, I have no idea if they even asked for it, but. And I certainly have no idea if the packers would have done it, but Edgerton Cooper is probably one of the more underrated defenders in the league and he'll be having a homecoming as well getting back to Texas, so that will be interesting. What do you think of the series in general, though? I'm just curious about that because I Think it's so doggone interesting.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, it seems to have a lot of starts and stops to it. There's history, you know, going all the way back to the Ice bowl and the game of the Cotton bowl and then a void until the 80s and then the 90s, and then recently Aaron Rodgers and the tiptoe catch on. On third down Dak and Zeke's rookie year. It just have. It has so many starts and stops to it. And now it has this new chapter with Micah that I think is if the Cowboys can be a playoff team here, these next few years will make it interesting again.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, yeah. There's, you know, first of all, I hope people know I wish they would never play. It puts it put you in harm's way. Well, I just. I don't go to the game. I will not. I just think Cowboy fans have been so nice to me over the years and they've been so accommodating. And it's not that I would act a fool because I certainly wouldn't. I wouldn't move a muscle and I wouldn't ever change a facial expression because I'm used to being in press boxes, but I just don't want to be there because I. It just. It feels like the one consideration for working for basically the Cowboys fans public that I just want to be polite and not go regardless of the outcome. And I will tell you, I love covering the Dallas Cowboys, but I was born elsewhere. There's no question about it. And I do have a relationship with that team. It's different. I don't know any Packer people personally. I know tons of Cowboy people personally, so you could argue it's a more personal relationship with the Cowboys. It broke my heart to see Jason Whitten walk off the field after the Des catch. I mean, gosh, you know what these guys go through. But from the series standpoint, it's interesting. Like, Bart Starr almost never lost to the Cowboys. In fact, maybe he never lost to the Cowboys.

[George Dunham]

I don't think he did in the playoffs. No.

[Bob Sturm]

And then, really, from then on, no Packer quarterback had any success against the Dallas Cowboys until Aaron Rodgers, and that includes Brett Favre. Farre couldn't beat these guys to save his life. He had that one win in 96 in that ridiculous game in Lambeau. But really, otherwise, every time was just hitting that Texas Stadium wall again. And then whether it was Texas Stadium closing or Aaron Rodgers arriving, but they both happened about in 2008 or 2009. Since then, they've played 11 times and Green Bay is 10 1. And I didn't realize it was that ridiculous. And like I said, I cringe every time they play. And every game has its own story, whether it be the Des Catch or the Matt Flynn comeback game in 2013, that frankly. Frankly, these games have one thing in common, George, and that is I think a Cowboy coach should probably be fired after just about. Well, think about it.

[George Dunham]

Wade got fired after a Green Bay game, didn't he?

[Bob Sturm]

Wade got fired after a Green Bay game. I would contend to you that Jason Garrett should have been fired after blowing a 26 to 3 lead to Matt Throw Flynn when Rogers was hurt in 2013 and Eddie Lacy and they lost that game 37, 36. And then you could argue that Mike McCarthy should have been fired after the playoff game. Or maybe it's not even an argument. Maybe it's a fact that Mike McCarthy should have been fired after that playoff game and then we would not have all wasted an entire year of Cowboys football in 2024 waiting for Mike McCarthy to be fired. And so there's a lot of trauma. I understand all Cowboys fans hating Aaron Rodgers, but I never expected that Jordan Love would roll in here as a eight point underdog in that playoff game and somehow get out of there with a win. That was really weird. But it's a historically awesome series that I wish these two teams would never play each other, I guess, is what I'm trying to express.

[George Dunham]

Well, you won't be there on Sunday night, but I expect a lot of Golden Green. And that was before for the Micah trade. I think Packer fans gobbled up tickets when they, you know, found out, okay, this game's AT, AT&T Stadium. And then since that, that trade right before the season, man, I, I, I, I think the Cowboys may have to use a silent count a couple of times on Sunday night. They're going to be going crazy.

[Bob Sturm]

Like, why would you trade him to them? I know, like, if you're running this team, don't you say not to the Eagles, not to the Commanders, probably not to the Giants, not to the 49ers, not to the Packers. I'm just not training you throw the.

[George Dunham]

Rams in there too. Don't give them to the Rams. So you may have to go through them.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, like, it's just to me that I, you know, if Jerry would talk to me, and I'm sure he's dying to, but, but I, I would love to ask him why you would do business with somebody who you always seem to run into at just the wrong Time. That's just. That's just such a weird decision to me.

[George Dunham]

Well, and it will be weird on Sunday night seeing Micah wearing number one. That's. That's his favorite number. That's. That's who he likes talking about.

[Bob Sturm]

George, I. We can't stop without the hot fries. Georgie. Player of the week. Oh, do we have. Do we have.

[George Dunham]

I guess it's Javante Williams in a losing effort. I thought he was a terrific rent, but even he had the fumble, which was, as you said, one of the strangest fumbles ever.

[Bob Sturm]

It was a tough one. Tough week to pick one.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, but 7.6 a carry. Shoot.

[Bob Sturm]

No, I'm thrilled with Javante. I'm thrilled with Javante and Cavante.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, that's right. Both of those guys compete. Yeah, we'll see if the Cowboys can compete on Sunday. Bring it. They got that.

[Bob Sturm]

They got that dog in them, and that's what we need right now. We need. We need 22 dogs on this Cowboys field to go out there and compete. It's only week three. We can't have a garbage season this early.

[George Dunham]

We can't say goodbye to the season before we get out of September. That's ridiculous.

[Bob Sturm]

That's right.

[George Dunham]

All right, Bob. That was fun. You are such a football friend. And I'll be thinking about you on Sunday night, knowing what you're going through, watching the silver and blue and the golden green.

[Bob Sturm]

Well, I'm excited for football. And I learned long ago that it doesn't matter what I think is going to happen or what I want to happen, it's just going to happen. And then we'll be back to talk about it next week. So won't that be awesome?

[George Dunham]

I love it. Thanks to Peter Welton for producing us on Football Friends, the musers, the podcast cowboys edition, and yeah, we'll do this again next week.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

Yeah. Dude, did you order the new iPhone 17 Pro? Got it from Verizon, the best 5G network in America. I've never looked so good.

[Bob Sturm]

You look the same.

[George Dunham]

But with this camera, everything looks better. Especially me.

[Bob Sturm]

You haven't changed your hair in 15 years. Selfies, check, please.

[Kelly Clarkson]

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