George Dunham (3:36)

You've always been blue, blue collar job, you know.

Bob Sturm (3:38)

Well, you know, I mean, we were, you know, right in there with middle class America. That was, you know, that was just what you did. And you know, my dad made a Super bowl chili. He did that every Super Bowl. And I just knew that this was going to, this was going to end with the Cowboys, with this crowning moment of being champions again, knocking off the Steelers, who I had already built up a hatred for somehow. And I just, you know, I wasn't associated with North Texas yet, so I didn't know anything about Mean Joe Green outside of. We would drive down 35 and go down, you know, by Fouts Field. My dad was a. That's, that's where Mean Joe Green played and didn't mean anything to me at the time. But anyway, I just remember that day, the expectation was, this is going to be a great day. And for the first half it was. For the second half it wasn't. And to this day I realize watching this, I will lead with this. Bob. Yeah, it is still my biggest sports disappointment. Super Bowl 10, man. Because Super Bowl 13, I was older, you know, I knew of the agony of defeat. This was really my first time because I don't remember Super Bowl 5. This is my first time of. You're on the verge of. This is it. Your team is going to do this again. And what, Roger can't throw another Hail Mary pass, It's going to be completed. And it just, I was devastated. Just devastated.

George Dunham (5:16)

You know, there's something profound about that because I think what's sort of neat as watching sports as a kid is that you do compare it to your childhood movies, like your childhood movies and TV shows. And in all your childhood movies and TV shows, it ends happily. They don't, they don't burden five year olds with their hero dying at the end of the movie almost ever. Like, it's always, they always figure it out. They're always happy and hugs and, you know, just cozy feelings at the end of our movies and our cartoons and our TV shows as kids and then sports. You go over there and you're like, this is fun. Here are my heroes. This is so cool. And you are programmed to believe that there will always be a joyful conclusion. And so what you're describing is what we all figure out at some point, which is, oh my gosh, the heroes lose in the end. I don't like this. Walt Disney did a horrible job with this movie. I want happy resolutions.

Bob Sturm (6:26)

And you know, that's funny you mentioned that, because the Cowboys were like, they were like a casted group of characters. You know, you had Captain America at quarterback, Roger Stallback, who we all thought, lose, he can't lose. He'll find a way to win. Even on The Super Bowl 10 highlight reel that I've watched probably 500 times with John Facinda saying, while Pittsburgh thought the game was over, Dallas didn't. And it's like, you're dang right, we didn't think it was over. And you know, and you know, you look over at the sideline, there's Tom Landrie, a World War II hero, and the cast of characters on defense, Ed Tutall Jones and Leroy Jordan and Harvey Martin. And we just. This is our group of characters. We don't lose. And if we do, it's a, it's every once in a while, but it's not very often. And it sure as heck is not going to be in the Super Bowl. We've got this thing figured out now. And I got to tell you, we always talk about the, the sports cry or the sports tears. I remember sitting on the edge of my parents bed because, you know, you sat on the floor, you sat on the bed and we were watching this and I just, I started crying. And I remember my dad saying, come on, it's just a game. You don't cry over a game. But man, in my heart it was. I hadn't experienced, you know, the death of a family member just yet. It was like I felt like something died that day. You know, it was my sports dream that died, but it was devastating.

George Dunham (8:01)

I can remember that very first time my dad tried to tell me, it's just a game. And you push back and you're like, no, it's not. You know, and honestly, the circle of life you have, you do the same thing with your boys. The first time they get heartbroken by a sports team, you try to tell them that it's fine, it's just a game, we'll be back. And then they push back and. And you don't know what to say because they're really sad. And I've been on both sides of it and I remember them both clearly because that's the sort of thing a human doesn't forget. And I'm thrilled you watch this for us for football friends, because I know it's not easy. I've got a couple games that if you twisted my arm, you could probably get me to relive them, but I'd rather just never revisit them until the day I die. Because, you know, and I was an adult When Super Bowl 32 happened, when John Elway went spinning through the air and broke my little heart. And so I should have been able to handle it. But I've never gone back to that game, and I don't think I will, because I doubt I'll ever be on a Packers podcast where somebody asked me to relive a painful thing. You and Micah may do one someday, but I'm thrilled. Maybe George Comeby.

Bob Sturm (9:17)

Who.

George Dunham (9:18)

He's in the area.

Bob Sturm (9:19)

There you go, George.

George Dunham (9:20)

But, you know, I just. I think. I think this is cool. So I'm, I'm very excited.

Bob Sturm (9:25)

Well, just for context to 1975 was a really interesting year. Highly recommend the documentary on Netflix that talks about that was such a big year in America. We were leaving Vietnam. We had gone through this tumultuous time of the 60s, you know, all sorts of controversy in the United States, and we started to make movies about it, and we started to make all the President's Men. This was not related to Vietnam or, you know, racial equality or anything like that. But Jaws came out in 1975, the Godfather, one Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. And it was this big year of we were making the transition from going from, I don't really know what's going on in America to, hey, our 200th anniversary is coming up. The bicentennial patches on the Cowboys and Steelers jersey. It was a really interesting time in America and we needed some hope. We needed some good things to happen. I highly recommend you watch that documentary sometime. And this was, to this date, the biggest Super bowl yet. 80 million people tuned into this thing. And I really think it was the first huge Super Bowl. Yeah.

George Dunham (10:49)

And it's amazing how quickly everybody knew this is the greatest super bowl that has ever been played. Like the next week, the next day, people were saying that the first nine were kind of slogs and mostly ugly games. And this one was a beautiful game with beautiful moments, star studded. The entire country now understood this is the event of the country. Like, you know, the first couple Super Bowls, it happened. But famously, there were tickets available for Super Bowl Bowl 1 and, and, and all the networks got to show it, and we didn't call it the Lombardi Trophy because Lombardi was in the game and still alive. And so all these things had evolved in just 10 years. And honestly, on this day, on this field, at the Orange Bowl, I really believe the entire NFL pivoted to realizing the power of the passing game. And it turns out it was mostly because of Terry Bradshaw and Lynn Swan.

Bob Sturm (11:47)

Yeah.

George Dunham (11:48)

And both of them on a care. That's the other thing is if you took every Lynn Swan game of his entire career and stacked them from best to worst, this is absolutely his signature game at a signature moment that, frankly, he still probably has this raised level of prominence because of what happened on this field on this day. So from there, Bill Walsh, Joe Montana, and you know what we have today. But before this game, and even in this game, team still thought the best way to play football was to run it into the pile at a alarming rate. And both teams did. This is a run. Run heavy. Super Bowl 10.

Bob Sturm (12:34)

Oh, yeah, no doubt about it.

George Dunham (12:36)

In fact, Terry Bradshaw had nine completions in the entire game, and four. Four of them are to Lynn Swan for 161 yards.

Bob Sturm (12:43)

Yes. And, yeah, it's just incredible. It's a different game that does stand out, and it's fitting that it was on CBS, because that's another thing. As the NFL started to become America's game in the 70s, a big part of that was the NFL Today with Brent Musburger, Phyllis George, Irv Cross, and Jimmy the Greek. And it was fun hearing their voices, seeing their faces. From 1975, you have Pat Summerall on the call, along with Tom Brookshire and Hank Stram for the last two minutes because Tom Brickshire was making his way to the locker room. I don't remember that. That's kind of bizarre. Do you think was Hank Stram doing the radio that day? Because he used to do a lot of radio, and then he just, like, walked over to the TV booth.

George Dunham (13:36)

I don't know. It was so weird that out of nowhere, here's Hank Stram and. And equally weird. Tom Brookshaw. Brookshire. First of all, Pat Summerall never sounded different from the first time I heard him to the last time I heard him. He always sounded like your grandfather who knew a lot about football and just had this incredibly gripping delivery. Such a great call. It was minimal. But I guess what I'm saying is, even in 1975, he sounded like he had been doing it his whole life, when in reality, he was an actual football player. Not that Long before this. And the thing about Brookshire that cracks me up is he does sound like he's kind of winging it quite a bit. And he does sound like a lot of his friends are telling him things that he is using in the broadcast and then also in the post game, which I'm positive we don't have time to go through today. But his number one question to most of the Steelers when he's talking to them about the outcome of this game is that they're single, and he's really obsessed with each player's marital status and if they are single, how much fun it's going to be now that they've won a Super bowl again.

Bob Sturm (14:57)

He did that during the game, too, and he's talking about Jack Lambert, and, you know, he's single and.

George Dunham (15:02)

Yeah, well, Franco Harris is single. Everybody's single. And, boy, think of the ladies. Now, boys, that's really why we play football. It's for the ladies.

Bob Sturm (15:11)

And, boy, you could get the sense, including the very first second, we see Tom Brookshire and Pat Summeral on the broadcast, man, I think they partied so hard that week. I mean, they start the broadcast by laughing, going, hey, you know, here we are in Miami. It's been a fun week, huh? You know? Yeah, it's. Oh, it's so choice. I'm so glad we did this. Highly recommended to any cowboy or football fan to go back through this. You want to play Brent in. We just talked a little differently on Television in 1975.

George Dunham (15:50)

Yes. Okay. So. So this is actually from the post game show, so.

Bob Sturm (15:53)

Yeah, it's the post game.

George Dunham (15:54)

Yeah, it's. It's not the most chronological way we've ever done it, but who cares? So, yes, I. At the end of the broadcast, they're about to say goodbye, and it is Brent, Phyllis and Irv. And Brent compliments Phyllis, and I'm positive in his heart he believes he's saying the kindest thing to her. But with our 2026 ears, it sounds like the most condescending and probably sexist thing you could possibly say to Phyllis George. Here it is.

Tom Brookshire (16:22)

This brings to a close certainly the most pleasant football season I have ever enjoyed. And Phyllis George, I want to tell everyone that you did a magnificent job this year that wasn't too sure about working with a woman, folks, in coverage of football.

Bob Sturm (16:34)

She did a job.

Tom Brookshire (16:35)

She's rookie of the year.

George Dunham (16:36)

Thank you, Brett. Thank you very much.

Bob Sturm (16:37)

You know, I've had a ball. Really had. You two have been the greatest.

George Dunham (16:40)

And I've said it before folks, they.

Tom Brookshire (16:42)

Are super and they have cooperated with me and I hope vice versa through this long football season.

Bob Sturm (16:48)

And it's kind of sad that it's.

Tom Brookshire (16:49)

Coming to an end now, but hopefully we'll be back next year. Yes, it is. And Irv, it was nice to have somebody understood the game as well. Well, as you did around, you help us out. Thanks a lot, Ben. But I'll tell you, it was a team effort.

Bob Sturm (16:58)

The people in front of the cameras.

Tom Brookshire (17:00)

Of course, you see, but we had.

George Dunham (17:01)

Hundreds of people working behind us and.

Tom Brookshire (17:02)

Did a whale of a job.

Bob Sturm (17:05)

It was a lot of fun and we.

Tom Brookshire (17:06)

I enjoyed.

Bob Sturm (17:06)

I hope we are back.

George Dunham (17:07)

There you go.

Bob Sturm (17:08)

Oh, man. Yeah.

George Dunham (17:09)

I can't believe.

Bob Sturm (17:11)

I mean, they told me I was working with a woman football. I'm not sure how that was going to work out. But hey, you were okay. Phyllis.

George Dunham (17:18)

I thought she was going to be baking for us. I didn't know. I didn't know you talked football.

Bob Sturm (17:24)

Right to Irvin. It's nice have someone who understands footballer.

George Dunham (17:30)

Over on the other side, we have the person that could actually see football before.

Bob Sturm (17:34)

Man. Phyllis George out of North Texas. Miss America. As a kid, I thought she was great. I. I loved Phyllis George. I just thought she was tremendous. I love that whole setup she played.

George Dunham (17:48)

She was public about being a Cowboy fan too. So I bet.

Bob Sturm (17:51)

Yeah, maybe that's why too. I thought, well, at least Phyllis is on her side. Jimmy the Greek certainly isn't, but at least Phyllis is. Okay, let's get to the game. Yes, let's get to the game because we watch this like we would any Cowboys game. I've got all sorts of notes and let's just go from the first quarter. We'll. We'll start talking a little bit about this game. Okay. And I do remember this about watching it, just how bright it was last game on the artificial turf at the Orange Bowl. And it was just a bright sunshiny.

George Dunham (18:24)

Day and also a day game, which is important because.

Bob Sturm (18:28)

Day game. That's right.

George Dunham (18:30)

I want to say maybe the next year in Pasadena, the Raiders and Vikings played a day ish game. But then in New Orleans, Cowboys and Broncos that started the late Sunday afternoon into darkness. Super bowl time slot, which we know today, I mean, it really hasn't switched much since Super Bowl 12. So the, the. I want to say this was one o' clock central time, maybe even noon super bowl kickoff because they went live to the Phoenix Open after the broadcast of this.

Bob Sturm (19:03)

Yeah, we still had the Phoenix Open to sort out, so.

George Dunham (19:06)

So imagine enough Daylight in Phoenix for a golf tournament after the super bowl.

Bob Sturm (19:11)

Was already over 02:14 Eastern Time is when we kicked off.

George Dunham (19:16)

Okay. So yeah, 1:15 in Dallas.

Bob Sturm (19:18)

Okay. And by the way, the kickoff, the Cowboys have a little something, a little tricky, very significant. Preston Pearson catches it on the goal line, starts running right and hands off to one of the dirzy, a dirty dozen members, a rookie linebacker by the name of Hollywood Henderson, who starts trucking up the left sideline. And this is my first what if, what if this gets taken all the way? And the only one who touches Hollywood Henderson is Roy Jarella, the Pittsburgh kicker. Bob, why didn't he just truck him and just take off into the end zone?

George Dunham (19:57)

It's a great question. And in week two as a rookie, he did this against the Cardinals and, and so they took the, the kickoff 97 yards. Was he Hollywood back then or was he still Thomas?

Bob Sturm (20:09)

I think he was, yeah. He won Hollywood yet?

George Dunham (20:12)

Yeah.

Bob Sturm (20:13)

Okay.

George Dunham (20:13)

Well, regardless, he was an incredibly fast linebacker as anybody would know, once they put him on kick return and they're trying to get him the ball. Imagine a linebacker now in modern times being the, the, the guy you go to on an end around. But Roy Jarella, the claim was that he would go on to miss a couple really chip shot field goals because he had hurt his ribs on that play. And whether those two things are totally connected or not, that makes some sense, I don't know. But it seems to make sense that Roy Jarella had to give up his body to try to prevent the, the touchdown. And so the Cowboys opened the game in Steelers territory at, at, at the 44 yard line. And that's, and that, that's how the opening kickoff, you know, set them up nice.

Bob Sturm (21:01)

And I say what if because they didn't score on that possession, they had to punt it back? Then they got good field position on Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh had to punt and Bobby Walden drops a snap and the Cowboys get it. They just. I think it would have been blocked. I think he was a little freaked out by the Cowboys rush. This will play into what happens at the end of the game as well. So the Cowboys get it in great shape. But that was my point about the Holly. What if he takes that the distance, then the Cowboys get this dropped punt and, and by the way, they score on the next play on the throat of Drew Pearson, which puts him up 77 nothing. What if this would have been 14 nothing to start the game?

George Dunham (21:45)

That's a great question. And we have audio of this Drew Pearson touchdown so we can go to that here in a second. But I do also want to say on the Cowboys first offensive play, Elsie Greenwood sacks Roger. And that will be the theme of the day, is that for a long time the Steelers held the record with sacks in a game. I guess some called them traps back then, as we've talked about, but they got Roger seven times in this game. Elsie Greenwood three. Dwight White three. And you know, it's just the Steel Curtain was real. It was not made up by the media. It has not been blown out of proportion by some of us. They were the biggest, baddest dudes in the National Football League. And doomsday was great, but the Steel Curtain probably was the difference in both of these Super Bowls. But specifically this, the Super Bowl 10. Let's, let's check out that Drew Pearson touchdown though. This is a one play drive. The Cowboys after that dropped punt, get the ball at the 29 yard line. And then this happened down on the.

Tom Brookshire (22:47)

Pittsburgh Steeler 29 yard line. Steelers didn't have a turnover last year, winning the super bowl in the entire game. Roger Staubach sets him up as Pearson moves to his back. And he takes to Pearson. Starbucks going for the bundle, got through. Pearson across the middle. He might get in. Touchdown through Pearson. The Cowboys take the lead. 29 yard touchdown pass from Rogers. Stall back to Drew Pearson. And Patrick, absolutely no pressure on Roger at all. He faked the end run. He made Drew Pearson shift back. Now watch the fake and see where Lambert, number 58 goes. Lambert drops back. He's still undecided. I'll tell you, Drew Pearson coming under, he's not only a gutsy receiver, he's dynamite when you have to catch it. Look, look at this.

George Dunham (23:38)

So you got the play action right with the two polling guards, Blaine Nye out there in space and Burton Lawless back then in the shotgun. The polling guard, the backside would actually circle around and he would kind of be Roger's personal protector. Almost like punt protector it felt like. And so he would circle around and then because everybody believed that I guess Preston Pearson was going to get the handoff. Lambert's over that way. And now Drew Pearson on a front side dig has the entire middle of the field wide open. That will become a story in the fourth quarter, by the way, because the Cowboys will try it again. That exact play you'll see later. And the Steelers were sitting on it, but they weren't on this one. And I'll just tell you, George, I don't want to spoil the outcome here, but the team that scores the first touchdown has won the first nine Super Bowls, so that probably means the Cowboys will win this one. Yeah.

Bob Sturm (24:39)

And I remember them talking about that back in 1975. I felt great about it. And in my simple brain, as I'm watching this this week, I'm cheering Drew Pearson going into the end zone. I'm like, okay, there's a start right there. There's seven. Nothing. Yeah, I couldn't help it. It was so great just watching your heroes play again.

George Dunham (25:02)

And it's hard to believe how great Drew Pearson was then.

Bob Sturm (25:06)

He looks smooth, too. I mean.

George Dunham (25:08)

Yeah.

Bob Sturm (25:08)

Making the grab with his hands and just bolting down the sideline, then spiking it over his bags like heck. Yeah, that's Drew Pearson.

George Dunham (25:16)

And honestly, watching the. Watching this super bowl, both teams, it's. Watching the Pro Football hall of Fame, it's so ridiculous to know that Tom Landry, Roger Staubach, Drew Pearson are on one side and Chuck Noel, Terry Bradshaw and Lynn Swan are on the other side, and they're going to do battle against hall of Fame defenses. Steel Curtain Doomsday. I mean, this is the Pro Football hall of Fame. This entire game is loaded. Actually, Super Bowl 13 will have a few more hall of Famers because we will add guys like Tony Dorsett to the story. Jackie Smith. Yeah, Jackie Smith to the story. But it's.

Bob Sturm (25:57)

It's.

George Dunham (25:57)

It's remarkable how many immortals are playing on this. On this battlefield, on this day.

Bob Sturm (26:05)

Boy, and talk about things that are going to set the tone next. Steelers possession. They set a tone with the Lynn Swan catch down the right sideline that I'd forgotten about. That one. Oh, he picked on Mark Washington the whole game. Washington had good coverage, the passes high, and it looks like it's going to sail out of bounds, and somehow Swan launches into the air, brings it down, and comes right back down on his feet. How did he do that? I mean, this is third and forever, too, I think, when he. When he caught it and they go down and tie the score at 7. 7. But that was. That was a precursor of things to come with Swan just. Just killing the Cowboys that day. Yeah.

George Dunham (26:53)

And, you know, there's a couple things there. Number one, I've always kind of wondered why the Cowboys allowed Mark Washington on Lynn Swan that entire day. When you have Mel Renfro now, I know Renfro is getting up there in years, and I also know that it's a different game and maybe corners didn't travel and may. You know, there's a lot that I'm unclear about how 1975 worked especially from in Tom Landry's defensive brain. And he's genius, so we will give him the benefit of the doubt. But this super bowl is interesting because two of the main characters in this super bowl are Mark Washington and Percy Howard. And mark Washington has one year as a starter in the NFL, and it's 1975. He's in the league for 10 years. Nine of them were the Cowboys, but for the most part, he is a reserve. Yeah. And this one season, they made him the starter. And this entire game, the Steelers, when they needed it, went right at him. And the Cowboys didn't really give him any help because in two of these plays, the other two, the third down that Terry throws to midfield where Lynn sort of knocks it up to himself. And then of course, the game winner, they're both on like cover zero blitzes, like safety blitzes. And so Mark Washington has no help against Lynn. And you could argue that's the story of the game. And then Percy Howard will go on to catch a touchdown, and I believe, George, it will be his only catch as a Dallas Cowboy.

Bob Sturm (28:33)

Yes. And the first rookie to catch a touchdown in a. In a Super Bowl.

George Dunham (28:38)

I mean, he only played. He played one season in the NFL, had zero catches in the regular season, caught one pass in the playoffs, and it was a touchdown in Super Bowl 10. And that was his entire career.

Bob Sturm (28:54)

Yeah.

George Dunham (28:55)

Amazing.

Bob Sturm (28:57)

Also going in on this broadcast, when you watch this on YouTube, going in and out of the breaks, they play the old CBS music, too. That was awesome.

George Dunham (29:07)

No doubt.

Bob Sturm (29:08)

Like I said, I'm sure they presented it this way. I think this Super Bowl 9, I believe, was on NBC, but it just. Even for night. This is 50 years ago, and I was expecting. I missed the. What we refer to as the Fox box that has the score and the time, because you're like, okay, where are we now in the first quarter? You're trying to catch up and you only get updated when you come back from breaks. But I just love that old CBS music that would play in and out, and it was just awesome. And I hope you enjoy the shots from the Goodyear blimp, Bob. They were, I did, high above the.

George Dunham (29:46)

Orange bowl, in fact, in the fourth quarter. And we'll show it to you in a little bit. But in the fourth quarter, the play of the game is preceded with an amazing shot from the blimp that kind of shows the all 22 right before the immortal snap happened, almost like we ordered it because we knew what was about to happen. So, you know, There. There's. There's so many things about this game that do kind of scratch that itch, but. But I think wondering who the composer is that gave us that CBS NFL theme. If they've ever been given the credit they deserve. I don't know. But it was a beautiful thing.

Bob Sturm (30:25)

Okay, so the Cowboys come back and take a 10, 7 lead.

George Dunham (30:29)

Yes.

Bob Sturm (30:29)

They get a field goal, and that score would remain for a long time, but, man, there's all sorts of stuff that happened in that second quarter. I know I'm still sour grapes, but there was a catch made as the Steelers were driving in Cowboys territory, and it was the tight end. It wasn't Stallworth. It was the tight end. By the way, that was interesting, too, that they were talking on the broadcast about how they were wondering why John Stallworth didn't start. That's a good question. I don't know why he didn't start.

George Dunham (31:05)

Well, I mean, my theory, because I thought about this, and I also noticed the Cowboys had a lot of talent on the bench. And this was a time where if you were a young player, it honestly often didn't matter if you were better. It didn't matter if Randy White was better than the guys that he was sitting for. It wasn't his time yet. And so some of these future hall of Famers just kind of had to wait until those careers were over of the guys in front of them and, you know, then Randy White and John Stallworth would become the hall of Famers they were, but they were not starters as rookies.

Bob Sturm (31:41)

Right off the bat, okay, it was Riley Brown. That's who it was. I lost the note there. Bradshaw scrambles, completes it. Completes it in quotes to Riley Brown. And it really was a completion, but they called it incomplete. It's recovered by Dee Dee Lewis. It's like. Wait a minute. What? No, they call it a completion. It should have either been incomplete or a fumble recovery.

George Dunham (32:11)

Right.

Bob Sturm (32:12)

But there's no replay and. Oh, my gosh, that's it. Turns out they didn't score anyway. But there was. There was that. There was a near interception by DD Lewis that. That I thought, oh, man, what if, as we talk about a game of inches? And it really was that second quarter, and we're about to. We'll get to the second half here in a second. But that. The rest of the second quarter, it was just. It was almost watching electric football, you know?

George Dunham (32:45)

Yes.

Bob Sturm (32:45)

No one was really accomplishing much of anything.

George Dunham (32:48)

No. The Cowboys had a small lead, and it felt like they were very, very nervous. About making mistakes that would give the Steelers the ball. And so it kind of looks like Tom Landry got super, super conservative. And it was a lot of Robert Newhouse and Preston Pearson and Doug Dennison right into the pile. Cowboys could not really run the ball, and the Steelers weren't really productive either. But in the end, I think we would look back and say, man, the Cowboys had great field position all day, they had great opportunities, but they just kind of wasted like the middle eight possessions of the game, like they scored on that first possession or the second one, I should say. And, you know, all. All of their early possessions were into Steelers territory and they just didn't cash in enough to give themselves any sort of wiggle room into the second half. And that would become a story for sure.

Bob Sturm (33:47)

I know my biggest complaint for my man, Tom Landry, and I, as a fan, I never used to question Landry. It was like, well, that's the way Tom saw it. That's the way it should be. It was the game in 1975. You're right. Very run heavy game. But the Cowboys were such a good screen team. Not, not as good as they became with Tony Dore set, but they were still really good at it. Newhouse, Preston Pearson were really good at running screens. I do believe I counted one screen that was run and it worked pretty well. I don't. That would have been one way maybe to slow down the Pittsburgh front four. And they never really seemed to try from it. Maybe in your viewing of 1975, was the screen pass not as big as it was it would become in the Landry offense.

George Dunham (34:36)

That's interesting. I, you know, I guess I haven't noticed a ton of that. And I do feel like the Cowboys had had that as a big part of their bread and butter through the season when, you know, when I'm watching those other games on their march to this game. So I, I gotta tell you, man, looking at the Steelers and even their playoff run where they were, they dominate Baltimore and then have that slugfest with Oakland on that frozen field in the AFC Championship game, which, by the way, I would also like to recommend to people if you find yourself extremely bored and you want to go back and watch the 75 AFC championship game, that was a war on a frozen field in Pittsburgh. And. And the reason that's relevant to me, and this is also in the 1975America's game, which is mostly or all about the champion Steelers. They get the America's game if they win the Super Bowl.

Bob Sturm (35:32)

The.

George Dunham (35:34)

The way Lynn Swan And Terry Bradshaw were carried off the field in that game. And so both. Terry Hanratty finished several games because Terry Bradshaw could not make it all the way through a game. And then the Raiders were trying to kill Lynn Swan. They just were. And you know, it was Jack Tatum. And I forget who the other safety was for them or the other defensive back that was absolutely clobbering him, but there's a famous picture. Jose, I don't think that's the name I'm looking for, but Joe Green is carrying Lynn Swan off the field almost like he's carrying a bride over the threshold.

Bob Sturm (36:18)

Wow.

George Dunham (36:18)

You know, in both arms. You never see this in football is a big lineman just holding a wide receiver like it's his. Like it's his infant son or, you know, it was crazy. And he's carrying him off the field and. And there's actually a famous picture of that. And Lynn Swan jokes that Joe Green signed it to him and, and he. It's always been a moment between those two guys. And, and Joe said, well, listen, I was only doing it because I didn't want to have to waste a time out waiting for the stretchers for Lynn. But, but, but the reason I say all that is that's a story in this game because the buildup to the game is Lynn Swan and his status. And I think this is important because his status to play in the game is very much in question all week. Meanwhile, Cliff Harris, who. It's amazing because he's. He's a friend of both of ours at this point. And he's just. The nicest guy you've ever met, is Cliff Harris. But boy, was he a. A man who stirred up the pot back then. Oh, man. And was he would make opponent. It's crazy. I assume he was very popular amongst Cowboy fans, but outside the Cowboys world, it was. You better keep an eye on that Cliff Harris. He's a troublemaker.

Bob Sturm (37:38)

Yeah, well, let's get to that coming up next because I think Cliff Harris did something that. I agree with Tom Brookshire. I think this turned this game, this moment happened. Let's go there next because it's a turning moment in Super Bowl 10. And we'll do that on the Musers, the podcast Cowboys edition. It's back. Hey, it's Dan Bongino. I've got some big news for you. Starting February 2nd, the show is back. That's right. The Dan Bongino show is relaunching and we're going bigger than ever. Join me live on rumble.com Monday through Friday, 10am to noon Eastern.

Tom Brookshire (38:15)

We'll cover the stories that matter, Cut.

Bob Sturm (38:17)

Through all the garbage and get to the truth. Can't catch it live? No problem.

Tom Brookshire (38:22)

Grab the audio wherever you get your podcasts.

Bob Sturm (38:24)

Remember February 2nd, the return to the Dan Bongino Show. Don't miss it. Football playoffs are here and Underdog is the best place to get in on all the gridiron action. Playing on Underdog is easy. Just pick your favorite players and if they'll go higher or lower on stats like touchdowns, rushing yards, receptions and more. Get them right and you could win up to 5,000 times your cash. Last week I took higher on Josh Allen's passing yards and I won big. Let's do it again this week. So what are you waiting for? Download the app today and use the promo code musers to score $75 in bonus entries. When you play your first $5, that's promo code Musers. Underdog make picks win money must be 18 or older, 19 or older in Alabama and Nebraska, 19 or older in Colorado. For some games 21 or older in Arizona, Massachusetts and Virginia and present state where underdog fantasy operates. Terms apply. See assets.underdogfantasy.com web playandgettermsdfs.HTML for details. Offer not valid in Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Ohio or Pennsylvania. Concerned with your play? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit www.ncpgambling.org. in New York, call the 24.7hope line at 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPENY or 673-69. Get ready for the rush with Max Crosby.

George Dunham (39:46)

It's time.

Bob Sturm (39:47)

Don't miss the behind the scenes moments everyone's talking about. Regardless of what they say. I'll take the fine.

George Dunham (39:52)

I don't care.

Bob Sturm (39:53)

All Pro defensive end Max Crosby takes you beyond the field with exclusive insights. I could say this because I've played them. This is the rush. You guys already know what time it is. It was fire and we'll be right.

George Dunham (40:04)

Back on the pod and we'll be.

Bob Sturm (40:05)

Talking about it next week. The Rush with Max Crosby. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Doing something a lot of fun. This week we look back at Super Bowl 10. Bob's been following the 1975 season and it ends up January of 1976. Orange bowl in Miami. Cowboys and Steelers. The first of three meetings between these two teams in the Super bowl and the Cowboys had a 107 halftime lead. It was almost doubled in. It was doubled in in stats. Pittsburgh had 194 yards in the first half Dallas had 98, but the Cowboys are hanging in there. They're playing great defense for sure. And outside of a couple big plays to Lynn Swan, both teams kind of go back and forth. In the third quarter. Roger does throw an interception. The J.T. thomas. I thought that was interesting. Steelers with 11 straight games with an interception. That's how good that defense was. Just week after week coming up with at least one turnover. Then Pittsburgh in great field position. They're at the Cowboy 15, but the drive stalls. Here comes Roy Jarella who we talked about opening kickoff. He's the last one to save a touchdown to Thomas Henderson on a reverse. He takes some heavy contact on that and this is not a very long field goal. 33 yards, I do believe.

George Dunham (41:42)

And keep in mind he's already missed a 36 yard.

Bob Sturm (41:44)

He's already missed a different yarder and he. This is a nasty looking kick. It's no good. Cliff Harris rushes in from the right side and really didn't come close to blocking the kick. But he winds up right standing right next to Roy Jarella and as he misses it, he taps him on the helmet and there's no telling what he's saying to him. You know, like, that's right. Hey, nice kick there, pal. But with probably some really strong language. Then Jack Lambert takes exception to that, tries to body slam Cliff Harris and all hell breaks loose here.

Tom Brookshire (42:22)

Said, we need you. Well, Jack Lambert was after Cliff Harris that that's the reason Jethro grabbed grabbed the defensive safety. So Jarello heads back to the sideline a little less confident than he might have been before this game started. 10 7, Dallas. All right, take a look at what happened. Jarell has just missed his second field goal. Now Lambert's walking by. Here's Harris telling him something and grabs the kicker. And Lambert at 65 works him over the Washington Arkansas to Jack Lambert's a long way to go.

Bob Sturm (42:55)

Man, I've got so many problems with that. There's a personal foul.

George Dunham (42:59)

Yeah, I mean now should have been offsetting personal files probably, maybe.

Bob Sturm (43:03)

Yeah, you probably shouldn't touch another player. That's taunting in today's game for sure.

George Dunham (43:08)

But Lambert just threw them and you're all looking at it. How's that anything?

Bob Sturm (43:12)

Well, and the reason, and we can get to this later, that Percy Howard is playing receiver is because Golden Richards has his neck need by. Was it Edwards that was doing that?

George Dunham (43:25)

Mel Blunt.

Bob Sturm (43:25)

It was Mel Blunt who was driving his knees into his neck and that not Golden Richards out of the game. There were so many Penalties that could have happened but. But didn't. Again, it's a different game. Back then, there would have been probably, I don't know, 10, roughing the passing call, roughing the passer calls in this game, if you played by today's standards.

George Dunham (43:50)

But, oh, Larry. Larry Cole just about removed Terry Bradshaw's jaw.

Bob Sturm (43:56)

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, and we'll. We'll. That we'll get to that key play in the fourth quarter. But yeah, to this. To this point, after this melee and they separate them, no penalty flag. Somehow Pittsburgh does not score the field goal. But from that moment on, Jack Lambert, not that he already wasn't having a good game, he played like a man possessed. Especially in that next possession, you can see him just going, an enraged linebacker going around the field and just. Just whooping.

George Dunham (44:28)

Folks, there's. There's no question. This is one of those deals where you read about it and you think, okay, you guys are blowing this out of proportion. Jack Lambert was not foaming at the mouth madman because of that Cliff Harris thing. I challenge you to go back and watch the footage and tell me that he doesn't look like he wants to kill anybody wearing a Cowboys uniform for the next 30 minutes and maybe for the next. The rest of the game. So. So I think you properly call this. This is not folklore or legend or a fairy tale. I think Jack Lambert was probably playing pretty well, and then Cliff Harris turned him into the Incredible Hulk and Jack Lambert was a man possessed the rest of the game. So it may be coincidental, but I do think it's worth pointing out that the Cowboys offense was incredibly unproductive from that moment Forward until it's 2110. And that's. Yeah, so. So, I mean, there. There is.

Bob Sturm (45:32)

They.

George Dunham (45:33)

Look, they weren't gangbusters before that incident, so I'm not saying it totally holds up, but the next possession is just a whole lot of nothing. And you could argue that Jack Lambert was on a mission. In fact, I don't know if we can play that post game cut, but to jump ahead, Tom Brookshire asks him about this, and I do think it's worth listening to.

Tom Brookshire (45:59)

Sonny, we've got a guy that I think changed the tempo of the game. I said this early in the third period, Lambert, you're still mad, you're still hot. But I saw you doing a lot of jumping and banging, and you knew you had to get it started in the second half. What. What turned you on? Well, I felt that in the first half we were intimidated a little bit, and The Pittsburgh steers aren't supposed to be intimidated. We're supposed to be intimidators. So I was a little bit. Bit excited. And when after the second field go, Torello missed, Harris slapped him around the head a little bit. And that's just not going to happen when I'm out there, as far as I look at it, you know, and I think we. We got going and we picked it up and we do.

Bob Sturm (46:37)

He said it right there, man. He was so fired up after that. And he's an incredible linebacker. Dominant linebacker. I mean, they had. They had four or five dominant players on that defense.

George Dunham (46:49)

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Bob Sturm (46:50)

Green, lc, Greenwood, Blunt. I mean, that's.

George Dunham (46:54)

Yeah.

Bob Sturm (46:54)

You.

George Dunham (46:54)

You could argue, like, what are you supposed to do against these guys? And.

Bob Sturm (46:58)

And the.

George Dunham (46:58)

And the Cowboys, their offense in 75 surprised people because most people properly looked at the Cowboys roster and said, where's the juice? Like, and. And by the way, in. In for 76 and 77. The Cowboys would add a fair amount of playmaking, but they just. They didn't have a deep army of playmakers in 75. They were okay. But, I mean, Preston Pearson is pretty much released by the Steelers, and he becomes one of the Cowboys very best weapons almost immediately because, you know, Calvin Hill's gone, Dwayne Thomas is gone. The wide receiver position is kind of Drew Pearson and a bunch of stuff. Yeah, tight. Tight end is pretty. Pretty shallow at that point. And so, you know, against a defense like the Steelers, we could almost. We could almost go backwards and say, how the heck do you beat the Vikings and their defense and the Rams and their defense to even get to the super bowl with how modest Stallbox weapons were in 1975.

Bob Sturm (48:05)

I think it speaks a lot to Roger. A lot to Roger and how he led that team. So, yeah, after that moment, a Dallas punt, a Pittsburgh punt, and as we talk about a matter of inches, Cliff Harris goes over the Wagner punt. I mean, it goes beneath him. That was so close to being blocked.

George Dunham (48:26)

Yeah.

Bob Sturm (48:26)

Again, remember that? So that's the second punt that the Cowboys almost blocked. They had another one where Wagner dropped it. And the other one that was almost blocked was Bob Bruinig, who got really close to one in the first half. Then Pittsburgh has to punt again. Cowboys with really good defense. And then you have a Dallas possession that starts with the flea flicker and it's going nowhere. No one's open. Roger has to eat it. He gets sacked.

George Dunham (48:59)

But you can see the desperation in the play calling. Now we're in the fourth quarter. That's where you can definitely see like, let's try the flea flicker. We can't get anything else done. And so the Cowboys are trying things. It just didn't work.

Bob Sturm (49:14)

So this is where the game really turns. After a third down sack, the Cowboys have to punt. And it's a jailbreak rush. And it's Reggie Harrison. Harrison, Reggie Harrison with the block right down Main street, back of the end zone. And it is, it's a safety, but it just. If the Lambert incident hadn't turned it, this really turned it because I remember watching at the time thinking, oh gosh, here comes Pittsburgh. They're going to start mauling the Cowboys. And, and, and they really did. Then they get the free kick and this time Jarella makes a field goal. It's 12:10 with 832 left. Still just. It's a two point game. All of this is. All these bad things have happened to the Cowboys and a testament to the Cowboys defense, they're still in this thing.

George Dunham (50:13)

That's right. That's right. And so now there's eight and a half minutes to go and it's the Cowboys 11th possession and they still are sitting on seven points. And so that one play they hit on was the Drew Pearson touchdown back in the first quarter. So they call. That's from that play again, they call that exact same play and it has a wildly different result. This is probably the Roger interception that killed them. And let's, let's have a listen.

Tom Brookshire (50:48)

Total offense so far. In fact, it's just 159 yards. The Steelers have 100 more. Roger Starbuck behind for the first time. He's gonna throw now. The middle pickup by the Steelers, Mike Wagner. And down to the five yard line.

George Dunham (51:10)

Whoa.

Tom Brookshire (51:11)

The name of the game is defense. There's Wagner. Four interceptions this year. Burton Lawless, number 66, dragging his right arm. The Steelers and that defensive unit, it turn it over again. There goes Lawless. And you know, Wagner backed off from it, let Roger throw the ball down the middle, and then he came charging. There was no doubt about coverage. He was going for the ball. Watch this now. Watch Lawless setting up for him. He's the one that got hurt. Wagner's heading for the goal line.

George Dunham (51:45)

And.

Tom Brookshire (51:46)

Really heading in that direction inside.

George Dunham (51:48)

And this is what's really interesting about going back 50 years and talking about our legends is that Roger just predetermined his throw. Like the moment the play was called, he knew I'm going to hit Drew Pearson at the exact same spot where I hit him on the Touchdown. And the Steelers are going to defend it the same way. And this is what an in game adjustment looks like, is that the Steelers are like, okay, they. They want to show us play action on first down, especially to start a drive. When they do that, we need to defend it differently. Don't worry about the run. They're coming back to Drew Pearson at this spot in the field. Let's have our safety crash on it. Let's have Lambert drop on it. And Roger threw it blindly into triple coverage. And he just. He just decided, I think, and again, it's it. Nobody ever said any of these guys are perfect. They're playing against other legends. But I. But I do. I often think about how the media today would have handled a player from the past doing something like that. Like we might deal with. With, you know, Dak or Josh Allen or any of the modern quarterbacks.

Bob Sturm (53:03)

It's just.

George Dunham (53:04)

It's a different ball game. But that is a quarterback who guessed, and it might have cost this team the Super Bowl. You know, I know that's harsh, but it might have.

Bob Sturm (53:15)

Well, but it didn't. They weren't out of it because you think, okay, they're. They're knocking on the door. Now. They get this at the right, at the seven, I do believe the seven yard line on the return by Wagner. So, yeah, this game's about to be 19 to 10. But the cowboy defense holds, and here's.

George Dunham (53:36)

They really do.

Bob Sturm (53:37)

Here's another one of those moments. Franco Harris gets absolutely tattooed and the ball comes loose and it pops up in the air, and you're thinking, if. If there's a player that's within striking distance, he plucks it out of the air and maybe runs the other way with it. It's up there so long, but it comes right back down to him.

George Dunham (54:00)

Yeah.

Bob Sturm (54:00)

And the Steelers maintain possession. They don't score, but they don't fumble the ball away and they get a field goal.

George Dunham (54:09)

The Steelers had luck on their side in this game. Now, it doesn't mean they won because of luck, but. But the. The ball bounced their way many times in this game, and that's one of them. I just want. I also want to go back and be fair to Roger on this one thing. If you get sacked seven times by the Steel Curtain, it has an effect when you have time to throw. And so I'm not saying that he made a bad throw because he was unprepared. I'm. I'm saying he made a bad throw because it's the middle of the fourth quarter and he's been running for his life for a good portion of this game. And ultimately that cumulation adds up and has an effect on a guy and I think that's probably what happened.

Bob Sturm (54:49)

Well, he. But you hold him. But you hold him in. Okay. This is still a game. It's 15:10, so you're down five points. Cowboys get the ball back and they can't do anything with it. Another sack.

George Dunham (55:03)

Another sack.

Bob Sturm (55:04)

After they ran their first screen of the day. They got five yards to Robert Newhouse, but then a sack and then they're big trouble so they have to punt. But still.425 left. You've got a chance on this thing and you've got them at third and five.

George Dunham (55:18)

Yes.

Bob Sturm (55:18)

Landry decides. Let's send everybody. If you have a star on your helmet. Cliff Harris blitzed. Dee Dee Lewis blitzed from the edge.

George Dunham (55:29)

And I. Lewis has him dead.

Bob Sturm (55:31)

He. It. I know this is another thing.

George Dunham (55:34)

This.

Bob Sturm (55:35)

Well, you know what angle in Bradshaw is taken apart. Maybe fumbles the ball, but he, he steps. I give Bradshaw a little credit for stepping up a little bit to mess up the rush angle of Lewis and then he throws the pass of his life.

George Dunham (55:51)

Yeah. So a couple things that I'd like to point out. The DD Lewis thing. This is why when we talk about draft players, especially pass rushers, we want to know can they, can they turn the corner? Can they flatten their pass rush? Can they. And because you know, normal hips, when you're running, you're going to run past the quarterback unless you can really turn and control your body on a dime. And I, you know, DD Lewis has him blindside like DD Lewis must have seen that for the rest of his life. Yeah, just that. That Bradshaw is. I have a chance to hit Bradshaw to win the super bowl. And this is just one of those moments that, that, you know, I'm positive he never stopped seeing in his mind's eye. And then Cliff Harris gets clipped by Rocky Blier and goes flying through the air. But Cliff Harris is a well timed blitz that would get Bradshaw and this play, you could write a book about this one play. In fact, we should play it for the people. This is the play of the game. Third and four, third and five. This is one of the most famous plays in NFL history. Terry Bradshaw to Lynn Swan to win the game. Still here.

Tom Brookshire (57:10)

Harris 25 carries now for 82 yards. He carried 34 times last year. You recall here is Bradshaw bothered from behind. Lynn Swann is open.

Bob Sturm (57:23)

Got it.

Tom Brookshire (57:24)

Steeler touchdown. Mark Washington with him The Cowboys had the safety clipped. 64 yard touchdown pass from Bradshaw to Lynn Swan. And Bradshaw is down. Bradshaw is down, but he threw the ball about 65 yards and he threw it a ton. Now he's on his feet. He's got a long time to rest up. That's got to be one of the great passes in super bowl history or in pro football history. Dallas had a few. It's going. Let's look at it again. All right, here he is number 12. He does not like the play pass. And what difference does it make now? Gets a run by the blitz. Mel Renfro. Man, here it is. And Lynn Swan does it again. Mark Washington's there, but he's in the lake by about a step and a half. Swan has now caught four passes for 161 yards. Bobby Walden to hold it. Bradshaw on the sideline. Here's that last catch.

George Dunham (58:31)

Hank.

Tom Brookshire (58:37)

He gets behind in good shape. The ball is thrown right over the shoulder perfectly. Terrific concentration by Swann. And of course, he makes a reception. Goes all the way in for the.

Bob Sturm (58:47)

Pretty good. I mean, Mark Washington took a beating this day. That was pretty good coverage.

George Dunham (58:52)

What do you want him to do?

Bob Sturm (58:53)

What a great throw.

George Dunham (58:54)

I mean, what a great throw.

Bob Sturm (58:56)

Throw.

George Dunham (58:57)

What a great throw. You'll never see a better deep ball. He gets absolutely tattooed as the ball is leaving his hands by Larry Cole. And Bradshaw will tell people for the rest of his life that he's out cold before he hits the ground, like he is unconscious.

Bob Sturm (59:16)

You like that concussion protocol the Steelers use there? It's getting to his feet and take him off the field. Rochelle's like a rag doll. He can't move.

George Dunham (59:25)

The. Can't move. They're. They're just dragging him off like they did Lynn Swan the week before. It was a different time. And then in the broadcast, you can pretty much see that everyone's distracted because they're trying to get Terry Bradshaw to an ambulance, basically, and, you know, like, he cannot go on. That's the other thing is if that falls incomplete and the Steelers, you know, need to get points, they got Terry Hanratty, and I'm not positive they want him throwing a single pass, which we would find obviously, a little bit. So, I mean, there's. There's so many things about that play that are just wildly fascinating, including the ramifications. You know, it's almost like the Jackie Harris play in Super Bowl 13 where you're just like, how many. How many dynasty tags and guys in the hall of Fame and just memories, you know, the Steelers, I guess, get the spoils of victory. But. But these are the margins, you know, and this is. This is how close a game is. And, and honestly, I can't think of a better play in super bowl history. I'm sure there are a few. But. But Bradshaw first. How about this? How about Chuck Noel having the stones or whoever called that play? I. Did Bradshaw call his own plays? I'm trying to think.

Bob Sturm (60:44)

I think he did.

George Dunham (60:45)

I think he did too. Yeah, but whoever is dialing up with the lead, the Bomberooski on a third and medium where, honestly I'd probably go to Franco Harris in that spot or something. But. But they, they dial up Lynn Swan again and, and like I said, one catch per quarter is all Lynn Swan had. He had one in the first, one in the second, one in the third, one in the fourth. Four catches, 161 yards, one touchdown.

Bob Sturm (61:15)

But they were all masterpieces.

George Dunham (61:17)

Seriously, what a freaking heater, man. What a. You're in the zone. I can't miss today. No matter what we do, I'm going to hit Lynn Swan and we're going to profit because it's our day.

Bob Sturm (61:31)

Okay, so it's 2110 because Drilla misses extra point. Boy kicking us hard back then 110 so the Cowboys get the ball back. Okay, wait a minute here. We got two minutes left.

George Dunham (61:44)

Yes.

Bob Sturm (61:45)

30 yards to Drew Pearson. Preston Pearson over the shoulder catch for 20 sacked by Dwight White. Okay, well now, now we're at the two minute mark. There were more than two minutes left then now the Cowboys on the right. After the two minute warning, Roger comes back on and here's the Percy Howard moment. He finds him down the left sideline. Defensive back fell down and it left Howard wide open and. And he caught it. Okay, hang on. We got a minute 48 left. It's 2117. We've seen before. Yeah, yeah, you got all of your timeouts. Okay, this is, this is still doable. And I remember in 1975, again, the belief thing I believed right starting with the onside kick, which wasn't even close. It's kicked right to an offensive lineman. Why do we have him out there for Pittsburgh?

George Dunham (62:43)

Thank you for noticing that as well. The Steelers hands team appears to be their starting offensive line is out there feeling the onside kick and I'm like, what is going on? But yeah, they did it and they recovered. So I guess no harm, no foul.

Bob Sturm (62:58)

Okay, so Pittsburgh has at the Dallas 43, Terry Hanratty is it cornerback because.

George Dunham (63:03)

Oh, timeout. Time out.

Bob Sturm (63:05)

Time out.

George Dunham (63:05)

This Is this. This is important. You score to go 21:17 again. I know Tom Landry's a legend, and I'm not debating that. I'm not trying to sul his good name.

Bob Sturm (63:15)

Why not kick it off?

George Dunham (63:16)

Why not kick it off? They got Terry Hanratty. Terry Bradshaw's in an ambulance. We're. We're down 2117. We have all of our timeouts and their offense will not function.

Bob Sturm (63:25)

Let's kick it deep because as we're going to talk about, the clock went faster back then and I don't think coaches looked at it the same way. I'm glad you brought that up because, yes, Terry Hanratty's a quarterback, so they're not going to throw. And you're right, that's a great point. I didn't even think about that because I was so wrapped up in the game and this was driving me crazy. But I've got a good. I got a great football question for you, and you may have the answer for it here in a second hand. Ready? Hands off the Harris minus two. Timeout, Cowboys. Second and 12 Harris two yards. Timeout, Cowboys. Now you got a minute 33 left and it's third and 10 and Steelers are going to run the ball to try to make the Cowboys use their final timeout. They do. Rocky Blyer gets two yards. Timeout, Cowboys. Now it's fourth and eight and you're going to punt the ball. But because you had a Wagner drop and two near blocked punts by the Cowboys, Chuck Noel decides to run a play on offense, not trying to pick up the first down. He's just going to run Blyer to run off some clock. But he only gets a yard and the Cowboys have it at their own 38 with 122 left.

George Dunham (64:45)

Could you imagine what happens to Chuck Knowles spotless reputation if the Cowboys come back and win this game with that incredibly horrible possession where he's literally telling us he doesn't believe he can punt from midfield without it getting blocked.

Bob Sturm (65:05)

Unbelievable. Okay, now here's. Here's where we get to the Cowboys with a chance, their own 38. First play. Here comes the pressure again. Roger escapes, runs for 12 to midfield. At this point you're thinking, okay, okay, run the play, run the play. And they do. And with 50 seconds left, Preston Pearson catches it. But he turns inside, he cuts inside, cuts inside. What is Preston Pearson thinking? But he still gets a first down. He's to the 37. So. So that was a gaffe. But the Cowboys then line up and it Takes them forever to line up and they're shifting and they're. Bob, when was the first time we started clocking the football?

George Dunham (65:52)

Wow.

Bob Sturm (65:53)

Because I was just thinking, clock it, Roger, clock it. And I don't think that was in the playbook. And 90s 80s.

George Dunham (66:03)

Well, no. When did Dan Marino do the fake clocking it?

Bob Sturm (66:09)

That was 90s.

George Dunham (66:11)

Was it?

Bob Sturm (66:11)

Okay.

George Dunham (66:12)

I thought that might have been late 80s even. I need to look this up, but I feel like my whole life, guys have clocked the ball. That's interesting.

Bob Sturm (66:21)

Now, maybe in desperate times, like, hey, they've got to stop the clock with six seconds left, but I mean, clocking it as a timeout when.

George Dunham (66:29)

I would just like to say, if Tony Romo and Jason Garrett had botched the clock this badly, we'd still be doing segments on it.

Bob Sturm (66:38)

So now you're down to 20 seconds in completion. You wasted 30 seconds.

George Dunham (66:44)

They got two plays off in 57 seconds in the Super Bowl. Tried to move the ball down the field.

Bob Sturm (66:51)

And that's why I'm just thinking. That's why I'm thinking the clocket thing was not a big strategy, though.

George Dunham (66:56)

Then I almost wonder if they were thinking of huddling.

Bob Sturm (66:59)

It's just like, guys, guys, it's a Super Bowl. The whole time, I just get to the line and just throw the ball down. But okay, so then now after the incompletion, there's 12 seconds left. It's second and 10. Cowboys are still at the 37. He throws deep for Percy Howard again. And all I'm thinking is, could we give a little better effort with the super bowl on the line? Could you jump maybe? I don't know. It did look like a receiver fighting for his life in the super bowl in the end zone. I mean, I know at this point it's desperation.

George Dunham (67:40)

Yeah.

Bob Sturm (67:41)

And then the next one is the throat of Pearson. By the way, Bob, it looks like the same play as the Hail Mary. It's the. It's the Roger pump to his left to try to move the safety and then throwing back right for Drew.

George Dunham (67:55)

Do you think the Steelers were ready for the Hail Mary play two weeks after the Hail Mary happened?

Bob Sturm (68:00)

Hey, they're going to throw it to 88, okay?

George Dunham (68:02)

And they got one player on their offense that we're scared of. Let's put 10 guys around Drew Pearson.

Bob Sturm (68:09)

And Edwards picks it in the end zone, and that's the end of the game. And that's. I remember that. That terrible feeling back when I was watching this of, like we said at the top of the Podcast this isn't supposed to happen. And maybe Even as a 10 year old, I was mystified of how did a minute 22 just go by so fast with the ball at their own 38? It wasn't. You really only ran two legitimate plays.

George Dunham (68:36)

Right? Right. Yeah, just. I don't know. I don't know when football teams started learning how to gamify the clock and how to make sure that we maximize our opportunity. But for you to get the ball at your own 40 and for a minute 25, not to be enough to really put together a possession at all. And like I said, they used 57 seconds on two snaps. And it's just regrets. There are a few from Super Bowl 10. This was an incredibly winnable game. And I do think looking back, Tom Landry's ultra conservativism for most of the game was kind of hoping, I think a 107 lead would hold up or maybe they could.

Bob Sturm (69:25)

Yeah, hit a big one and win at 1310 or something like that. That is going to be that kind of game.

George Dunham (69:31)

Yeah. And so, you know, it's interesting to even read the papers after the game and to read how when, when the Cowboys were gathering in Miami, Tom Landry went immediately to the film and he wanted to see some things and, and probably wanted to throw some pens at the screen. You know, when, when some things showed up. I would love to hear like his authentic off the record, you know, kind of self scout on how maybe I got this wrong or maybe I got this wrong, I don't know. And then, you know, like I said, Roger just firing that ball into traffic deep in his own territory. So it's we to watch this and have the experience in your takeaway that gosh, if only Tom and Roger could have been what they normally are, this might go in the win column. But then you don't know. Does that Fuel Super Bowl 12 and what changes movie moving ahead this was a, this was a year that my takeaway is from following this team every day for the whole year was that this was sort of found money.

Bob Sturm (70:34)

Yeah.

George Dunham (70:35)

And this was a beautiful Cinderella season that you kind of go back to the Met in Minneapolis and you say that's probably where the season was supposed to end. And then we still got that bonus drilling of the Rams that was so beautiful. And then we got to go to a Super bowl and all the experience and that, you know, so. So I think it's obviously a net positive the Dirty Dozen and just everything we discovered, but it does feel in the very end that the proverbial meat left on the bone by, you know, what could have been. Because this. This game was absolutely winnable for the Cowboys.

Bob Sturm (71:12)

I wanted to say this, too, is. I was watching this. It was. It was a great trip back in time, but it was also just another commentary on the passing of time. I think you brought this up a couple of weeks ago. Leroy Jordan's not here anymore. Dave Edwards, Robert Newhouse. You know, so many of these Cowboys are getting our. Our heroes are now in their 70s and 80s, and it was cool to look over and see the late Dan Reeves, a very young Dan Reeves, as the Cowboys top offensive assistant. Mike Ditka, special teams coach, A young dick, almost. Yeah, he's got the dick, a mustache and everything, but still, he's. Yeah, I guess just a couple of years removed from being a player. There's Gene Stallings, a pretty young Gene Stallings who would later go on and win a national championship with Alabama. It was. Yeah, it was. There was a real melancholy sadness to it as well. You know, looking back and it's going, man, life goes fast.

George Dunham (72:25)

These are the times.

Bob Sturm (72:26)

Yeah, these are the times. And it was a great trip back outside of 21:17 again. With my simple brain, I thought maybe there was a chance that if we played him again, something different would happen, but it didn't. Yeah, history doesn't change.

George Dunham (72:42)

That's the thing, man. It's. It's three hours in Miami on one day in January of 1976, and yet it determines perceptions for those guys, for eternity, at least football eternity, whatever that means. And. And we'll go to the super bowl here in a little bit, and there will be banners and mementos and even statues to these legends for what they do and what they accomplish. And yet you think about it, sometimes it comes down to like two seconds. You look at the late Dee Dee Lewis trying to get to Terry Bradshaw's blindside there on that play, and just that moment, you can't get it back. But you realize that moment affects everything forevermore. And it's just. It's what makes sports great. It also kind of tries to help you give grace to the dudes that we rip mercilessly sometimes, you know, and you're like, they're trying, man. They're doing everything they can. I talked to Cliff Harris last week and, you know, because I want to get him on the show and maybe even a football friends at some point, but his text to me, and I assume he doesn't mind me saying this, he says, I still have nightmares about Super Bowl 10, I see myself hurdling Rocky Blair on a safety blitz. Almost made it to smack Bradshaw, but Rock caught my toe and I fell to the turf. Dang. And you know, I mean, think about that. I still have nightmares about Super Bowl 10. What does that tell you about these guys?

Bob Sturm (74:19)

It means we love them that much more. Yeah, I love all those guys. And I just. Yeah, it was, it was really cool, man. It really was.

George Dunham (74:28)

Yeah. And honestly, George, what I would say to you, because I thank you for doing this, is let's pick a cowboy win next time. I bet you that would really be fun.

Bob Sturm (74:37)

You know, just a couple of years later, something really good happens in January.

George Dunham (74:42)

That's what I'm saying.

Bob Sturm (74:43)

Which this was. This was my toughest moment as a sports fan. Two years later is still to this day my, my best moment as a sports fan.

George Dunham (74:54)

Look at that.

Bob Sturm (74:55)

Super Bowl 12. So see, it can turn around. That's why, that's why we keep the positivity going, Bob.

George Dunham (75:01)

That's right.

Bob Sturm (75:02)

Something can, something great can happen once again around here.

George Dunham (75:05)

Yes.

Bob Sturm (75:06)

It just seems like it's never going to again.

George Dunham (75:11)

We will stay on that wall, though.

Bob Sturm (75:13)

We're gonna stay on that wall. All right.

George Dunham (75:16)

Until next year.

Bob Sturm (75:17)

Peter Welton, he had some, some big time producing to do this week. It's always great to have Peter along with us for this ride. Thank you, Bob. This was fun. And hey, we got a, we got a Super bowl matchup to talk about next week and that's right, maybe a new Cowboys defensive coordinator. Who knows? I'm George Dunham. And we'll do this again on the Musers, the podcast Cowboys edition. Football. Friends. Football. Football. Hey, I'm Chris Van Vliet, host of the number one podcast insight with Chris VanVleet. On the show, I sit down with the biggest names in pro wrestling, sports, film and beyond. These are real long form conversations that go behind the scenes and beyond the headlines. With people like John Cena, the Undertaker, Cody Rhodes and more, we talk mindset, motivation and what it takes to succeed. This is Insight with Chris Family. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.