D (1:27)

They're great too.

A (1:28)

You.

B (1:29)

No other podcast that I know of has pennants.

D (1:31)

No, I don't think so.

C (1:33)

So pre order between now and May 1st, get a free pennant. You guys, you mentioned everything on there except T shirts. We have T shirts. I think the T shirt with our logo in the middle, I think that's great.

D (1:44)

Yeah, it's a really nice look. So there you go. Musers merch available now. Finally, we've got merch online@themusers.com and don't forget the pre order by May 1st. Yeah, you get the free gift.

B (1:57)

You got to get the free pennant. I mean, come on, everybody wants the free pennant.

D (2:01)

And we have a very special guest today. He is a three time Super bowl champion, the MVP of Super Bowl 27, member of the Pro Football hall of Fame, the Cowboys Ring of honor, longtime analyst on Fox, and a current member of the Monday Night Football crew on ABC and espn. Did I say everything right?

A (2:21)

I think so, yeah. You wrote that well.

D (2:23)

And thank you very much.

A (2:24)

You read it very well.

D (2:27)

It is the Great. Troy Aikman on the music, the podcast. Wow. And we've had this association with you now for. We always have to ask ourselves, has it been 25 years, pretty much since you started doing TV?

A (2:41)

I think so, yeah. Yeah. I think it has been kind of an interesting journey. Not that you just asked me that, but with the ticket, when the ticket launched, which was, what, after our first Super Bowl?

D (2:52)

94.

A (2:53)

Okay. So after our second.

C (2:54)

It was the week you all were going to Atlanta for your second. We were on the air six days before that game.

A (3:00)

Okay. So if you had launched two years prior to that, I probably would have been a P1 from day one. But instead, you launched when things started to kind of turn the other way in Dallas. And then I, of course, from what I gather, was caught in the crosshairs quite a few times, and rightfully so. I will add at times as well. Towards the end of my career, I never listened to the show, just refused to. And then there were a few people on there that I just wasn't getting along with at the time either. But, yeah, since I retired, I decided to go on the ticket, have a show, been on with y', all, and it's been fantastic. I've enjoyed it.

D (3:38)

We've told you before, it's the best part of our football season. Every the day we get to visit and talk football with you. It's just been great for us. We've always wondered for 25 years, how does Troy put up with us all this time?

A (3:50)

So how do you know? It's. I'll be honest that it started the reason, really, the main reason why I decided to do the show. Well, two reasons, actually. One is because it was such a popular show. I mean, you have a great following, so it wasn't like you're doing something that no one's going to hear. And then beyond that, I would call these games, especially when I was calling the Cowboys games or talking nationally on a broadcast. And I felt like the ticket allowed me to kind of be the local. Not Homer, if you will, but support the local team and say things that maybe I'm not quite able to on the air. Uh, now that hasn't. Instead, you guys have gotten me into a lot of trouble over the years because you. You bring up some topics that hit a. Hit a hot button with me.

C (4:41)

Yeah.

A (4:42)

And sometimes I have a hard time holding back, but it's been. It's. It's been awesome. And. And probably of all the things that I've done, and this is very sincere, I hear more from people about the Ticket than. Than anything else I do, and that includes the national broadcast. I mean, so it's a. You've got a loyal following, and it's. It's. It's been an honor to be a part of it.

D (5:04)

Wow.

B (5:04)

How did you start listening to the Ticket after being a player that I understandably would want to stay away from sports media?

A (5:11)

Yeah. I don't know if it was because I started the show or I just decided that now that I'm no longer playing, I'm not going to be the topic of conversation most of the time, but. But I've. I've loved it. I mean, I've really loved it. And I think. I think initially, and I don't know if other P1s are like this or not, but initially, when you'd get away from sports, I would lose interest. And now those segments are some of my favorite segments. And as you guys know, I mean, there's been a lot of people, a lot of stations around the league that have tried to imitate the style and certainly the impersonations and everything that you do, and it's just not the same. So what's special is it's unique, it's authentic. You guys have been doing it this way for a long, long time, and the fact that you all have been able to stay together is really impressive because, as you know, that's very unus.

D (6:04)

Yeah.

C (6:05)

Yeah, it is. And you've been doing the weekly show with us during the football season. On the radio side, we're here to ask you today, will you come on with our podcast every week?

B (6:14)

Yeah, weekly.

D (6:14)

Save us, please.

C (6:16)

Please save us.

A (6:16)

I got to see what kind of following you have first.

D (6:20)

It's been.

A (6:21)

Okay, see, if anyone comments on this podcast, then I'll make a decision.

B (6:25)

And you don't do a podcast. You're one of the few people in the world that doesn't do a podcast.

A (6:30)

Just. I've just never been interested in really tying up that kind of time. And as we talked about before we came on the air, I think then you're constantly reaching out for guests, and I think that becomes cumbersome. And. Yeah, it just really has not been an interest of mine.

B (6:47)

If you were to do a podcast about something other than just sports or football, like, what is your other main interest? What's something that's one of your passions?

A (6:55)

You know, I think right now it would be more in the health and wellness space. I mean, I'm. I hate to say it, because it's a negative Connotation is I'm obsessed with just trying to. And we're all roughly the same age, I believe, so, you know, when you're

D (7:12)

roughly the same shape, look at the

B (7:14)

before and after pictures we have represented here.

A (7:19)

Yeah. So that would kind of be the. I think the thing that I'm most passionate about is the health and wellness space.

C (7:27)

I do think that's interesting because following you on social media, you'll post about your workouts from time to time. And I think you've told us before in a lot of ways, you're fitter now than you were when you were a professional athlete. And so I'm interested. At what point did that click in for you after your playing career?

A (7:46)

You know, Craig, obviously I always worked out, and then I've always eaten. Well, I started that probably after we lost Our first NFC championship game in 94 is when I got really, really dedicated to my diet. And it would ebb and flow a little bit, but for the most part, I've been pretty disciplined there. But it was about during COVID that I just felt that people were going to go one of two ways. And I thought most people were going to come out of COVID in worse shape than when they went in. And I was kind of determined. I was kind of going through a life change at the time and just felt that it was something that I wanted to commit to. And I wanted, when Covid ended, to be in the best shape of my life. And so that's when I started dialing things up a little bit more. And then I started following guys like Dr. Hyman and Huberman and Gary Brecke and those type people and started learning more and more. And so I've acquired a lot of the biohacking type. Sauna, cold plunge, hyperbaric chamber, red light bed. I have all that at my house. I do it daily. And. And so I feel. I feel great. And. And as I've often said, I. Look, none of us know how long we're going to live, but I hope that however long I do live, I hope my. My health span matches my lifespan. And it's become increasingly more important to me, as I'm sure for y', all, as well as we see people that we're very close with. I've always had a lot of older friends, and so a lot of my really close friends are now in their late 70s, early 80s. And so I'm seeing some of them really struggle and seeing the end of their life not be what I hope mine looks like.

D (9:29)

What's this red light thing about

A (9:34)

where you been living?

D (9:34)

Well, I've heard about it. I just don't have one. I don't know much about it.

B (9:37)

I've been to a red light district.

A (9:41)

It's supposed to affect the mitochondria, the energy source within your cells, and provide you with more energy and do a lot of, you know. Do I come out of the red light bed feeling any different?

B (9:54)

No.

A (9:54)

But you wear goggles. I don't.

D (9:57)

Okay.

A (9:57)

I don't. Many do. I listen to Gary Brecker one day, he was talking about it. I've had chronic eye redness for about the last 10 years. I've had a number of surgeries in order to avoid wearing corrective lenses. And now I'm in corrective lenses. So it was a long road that really was pointless. And at the end, I developed a pretty severe dry eye. And so I've been kind of battling that. And so everything I've kind of done, including the red light, has been done trying to reduce inflammation and help with the chronic eye redness. But in the process of that, I feel like it's. It's helped my overall well being and it's been, it's been very positive. So to answer your question, I do not wear goggles because I heard Breca talking about it, saying that he suffered from some eye redness and it helped him leaving his eyes open. So I keep mine wide open and stare at that. And so far there's been no negative consequences to that, and I think it is helping.

B (11:03)

So do you have cheat meals? Do you ever cheat on your diet or are you disciplined about it every single day?

A (11:09)

Pretty disciplined. I'd say maybe once a month. I'll have. Now, I, you know, I'll have bacon, for instance. At brunch, I'll have a couple pieces of bacon or something like that. But a real cheat meal like pizza or something to that effect, about maybe once a quarter as it relates to pizza. But I'm. Yeah, and to me, it's not hard. I mean, I. I don't find that I'm depriving myself. I've never really had much of a sweet tooth, so I don't get into all that. And. And I feel good. So, you know, I, I say this all the time. Maybe I've said it with y' all before, but when I was in my 30s, still, I made a comment. I was being interviewed by one of the, maybe the Dallas Morning News, and I said, I feel like I'm in the best shape of my career. And Babe, he reached out to me and reminded me that nobody says they're in the best shape of their career when they're in their early 20s. They always say it when they're at the end of their career. So all you're doing basically is acknowledging that you're old and you're just trying to hang on, trying to talk yourself

D (12:09)

into, yeah, I'm in great shape.

A (12:11)

I'm 59 years old and I'm saying I'm in the best shape of my life. And I laugh every time I say that because of that, what Babe told me. And I mean, it's hard for us to admit, but we, we are, we are getting old.

D (12:24)

I remember reading an article, though, late in your career, and your friend and teammate, Dale Hellstray told the story about how you guys went through a drive through, and I think he went, you know, hamburger and fries and stuff, and you got like a, a water and a salad or something. He said, man, you know, fun anymore?

A (12:40)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, actually, that do some of that.

D (12:43)

When you were playing, you were careful about it.

A (12:45)

I was. When I was younger, I mean, my, when I was single and early my career, I, I, I, I had a house, I lived by myself. And I would have pizza one night. This during the season. One night was pizza, one night was Chinese food. And the other night was this delivery, this chicken dish from Gloria's up in Capel. Maybe you remember that place. The chicken mogia sandwich is what I'd have. So that was every week. And I really didn't get disciplined, as I said, until after we lost that championship game to the, to the 49ers. But I had a bunch of buddies. A bunch of my college buddies moved to Dallas when I, when I left UCLA and left college. And they would laugh at me and say, well, I'm a professional athlete, so I get paid to work out and wait till I retire. That I was going to be, you know, the fattest guy on the planet. Because I would eat, I'd go into Jack in the Box after going out with my buddies and, you know, Jack in the Box, they have, they have Chinese food, they have American food, they have, you know, they kind of have

D (13:41)

it all, Chinese food.

A (13:42)

And I'd get egg rolls, I'd get, you know, sourdough burgers. I'd get the whole thing. And. But then I just adjusted as. And I could have continued to have to adjust my diet and my workouts as. My workouts have changed as I've gotten older. I used to jog all the time I can't run anymore. So that looks different than what it once did. And then so I kind of dial back some of the things that I'm doing within my diet as well.

C (14:04)

What does your workout routine look like every week?

A (14:07)

Well, I got into yoga, which is. I mean, when I would hear, you know, moms say that they did yoga, I. I would kind of scoff at it, you know, and think, you know, come on, that's not a workout. And I got into it about two years ago, really out of necessity. I just felt that as. As I was getting older, I never did stretch much. And so I was having a harder time getting my socks on and my shoes. I said, I've got to do something about this. So I started going to hot yoga. It. It literally. People laugh when I say that. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. It is the hardest thing I've ever done. I have yet to make it through an hour class. Yesterday I made it through. Normally I make it through 45 minutes, and I just tap out with 15 minutes to go. Yesterday I tapped out after 30 minutes. I mean, it just killed me. But it. I've got a degenerative back issue, so it's helped in that regard. But. So I do that three times a week in the off season, I lift four days a week. I walk as much as possible. Most every day, I'll walk five or six miles. It's not quite the. The same during the season just because of time constraints and preparing for these games. But, yeah, that's pretty much. Pretty much my routine. I do indoor spin, whether it's peloton or a class here in Dallas as well.

B (15:23)

I think I've asked you about this before, but the CTE issue has to be a concern for any modern player in football. And monitoring your own mind, your body, obviously, is something that you pay extreme attention to. What do you do for your mind to. If anything, that you can do?

A (15:43)

Yeah, it's a. It's a great question. I try not to think much about it, but. But you're right. I'd be lying if I. If I said that. It's not. I don't say a concern, but it is back there in my thoughts as I get older because I've. I've got some teammates. I won't name who they are, but got some teammates that are going through some really tough, tough stuff. And I would bet you don't really know, but I would bet that it's football related. And I did have some head injuries. I've been tested a lot. I've gone down to the brain health facility and did that program. And then I think lifestyle definitely plays into that. So that's another reason why I've tried to do what I've done to help in that regard. But I don't have any like mental gymnastics or anything of that nature to help. But there's, there's no question. And so far up to this point I'm not. I have no reason to think anything's going on, but it is in the forefront of my mind.

D (16:48)

It's a thread now on social media. That's a good one. It says how great was Troy Aikman. It'll show your highlights and some of the throws you made were just crazy. But then it does show the high, I guess, low lights of the contact even on a completed pass that you would take. That would be such a 15 yard foul now.

A (17:07)

Yeah.

D (17:08)

Football did the right thing.

A (17:09)

Did they?

D (17:09)

I mean we kind of. Good old day syndrome about all that one like that back in the skirt on them. Yeah, all that stuff. But they did the right thing by protecting the quarterback, didn't they?

A (17:20)

Yeah, I. There are the purest fans, I think that, that aren't crazy about it. And I'll be honest, when we're calling a game and there's a penalty on a defender for grazing a helmet, it changes the complexity of the game and oftentimes can change the outcome of a game. I'm not a big fan of that. But the player safety obviously is something that's very important. And whether the league was just simply interested in player safety or if there was concern about the lawsuits that were coming about with regards to some of the things that were happening within former players and head injuries, you know, it's irrelevant, but I think it was important for the league to try to get out ahead of it which, which they have. And it's a far different game now than. Than it was. And so my era, the eras before me, we took way more punishment. So we'll clearly see quarterbacks, and we already are, that are going to be playing into their 40s. We saw it from Brady. I think that's what we're going to see from most of these quarterbacks because the punishments not as severe. And then hopefully there's still concussions as we know that occur. But when we move down the road with this current generation of players, it'll be interesting to see as we track those guys, how maybe they compare to the older guys as it relates to head injury and some of the things that they've suffered. Foreign. The United States Soccer Federation presents the U S Soccer Podcast.

D (18:59)

My name is David Goss and I'm

A (19:00)

joined by my co host Megan Kleinenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup.

B (19:06)

Time's ticking.

A (19:06)

I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really stake their claim and they want to

D (19:11)

be on that World cup roster.

C (19:12)

There's no doubt about it.

A (19:14)

The World cup on home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. soccer Podcast, presented by Henkel. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

D (19:24)

The NBA playoffs are finally here and Underdog is the best place to get in on the action. Playing on Underdog is easy. Just pick whether your favorite players will go higher or lower on stats like points, rebounds, steals and more. Get your picks right, you could win up to 5000 times your cash. Last week I went higher on SGA's point total and won big. Definitely rolling with him again this week. Download the app today and use the promo code MUSERS to score $50 in bonus entries when you play your first $5, that's promo code MUSERS on Underdog make picks win money must be 18 or older, 19 or older in Alabama and Nebraska, 19 or older in Colorado for some games 21 or older in Arizona, Massachusetts and Virginia and present in a state where underdog fantasy operates, terms apply. Concerned with your play? Call 1 my reset or 1-800- gambler or visit ncpgambling.org In Arizona, call 1-800-next-step 1 800-639-8783 or text next step to 533-42 In New York, call the 24.7hope line at 1-877-8-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny2467369.

C (20:29)

For the last few months you've been working with Miami Dolphins. You helped in their search for a new gm and you've stayed on in an advisory role. There are a lot of Cowboys fans that wish you had done that for the Cowboys, but they're not set up, I think, to let you in or anybody in inside the family much. What got you into working with the Dolphins and have you enjoyed it?

A (20:52)

Well, I thoroughly enjoyed it way more than I even thought that I might. And it was during the season this past year that it was late. It was probably early December. I received a text from an unknown number and as it turned out it was Danny Sillman, who's Steve Ross's son in law, who's starting to take over more and more. I don't want to say control, but he's gotten more involved on the ownership side of things for the team. And Steve Ross, who I've gotten to know since then, is tremendous. And the way he runs things, total opposite from the way things are run here in Dallas. He hires people to do their job, and then he totally gets out of the way. And he was almost apologetic to me about that. He's had success in everything that he's done, but he hasn't enjoyed any success in football, or at least to the level that he would like. And. And I told him, I said, I think what the way you're doing it is the right way to do it. The problem isn't your style. It's just that you haven't hired the right people yet. You haven't gotten the right people in the right position. So I was asked if I would help with the GM search. They fired their gm, Chris Greer, middle of the season. And I have been asked virtually every year, some owner will reach out to me or multiple owners and ask me, hey, who do you think is. Would make a good head coach? Who would you recommend? And I usually have a couple of people on my radar, but I've never been asked about a general manager. So when I was asked to be involved in that process, I said, man, I just let me give this a little bit of thought. I've never been asked to be involved in that side of things, and I just want to make sure if I take this on, that I can give you what you're asking of me. And so I gave it some thought, reached out to a few people, and after giving it some consideration, I felt like, yeah, I think I could help him. So I dove in. And then pretty quickly, I realized I could help him a lot. And so now there's been a lot reported in that, like, there's a conflict of sorts because I'm a broadcaster and now being involved in helping the Dolphins. When I was helping them with their search, I called a ton of people that I have relationships with, whether it's head coaches or other general managers, owners I just compiled as. And this is how I did it in my businesses. When I've tried to hire a general manager to run the car dealership or hire a CEO to run my beer business. You know, I just kind of try to blanket as many people as I can and get their thoughts and just kind of see where it goes and make. Make notes. But everyone I spoke with, I told them exactly why I was talking to them, I said, I've been asked by the Dolphins to help them in their GM search, and I just want to have a conversation with you about it. And so everybody knew, and they ended up hiring John Eric Sullivan, who I think is. Is going to be phenomenal now, time will tell. But he was Head and Shoulders better. He was the guy. I don't want to say better. He was Head and Shoulders, the guy over everyone else that we interviewed. And I think he's going to be amazing. And then after that process, they appreciated it so much, felt that it was very well done, that they asked if I'd stay on and help with the head coaching search, because in that GM search, they had then decided to let Mike McDaniels go. And so they were in need of a head coach as well. I've enjoyed getting to know the family. I've enjoyed being involved with the team, and the guys they hired, I have great respect for. And so they've asked if I'll continue in some role that's yet to be defined. But I said, yeah, I'd be happy to, but I'm going to continue to do my job with ESPN Monday Night Football. And so my life's not going to change that much, but honored that they think enough of me to want me to stay involved. And I think the role in which I was in, I think is probably the right role. And what I mean by that is there's been talk here in Dallas, certainly about me being the general manager. And I'm not naive enough to think that you just go right from the broadcast booth and then you're effective as a general manager. Manager. There is a lot to learn, and I now know it's even more so than what maybe I thought, knowing what a GM goes through, but where I do feel my strengths have been throughout most of my life is identifying the right people. And so to be involved in helping them get the right people on board, I think kind of probably best fit my skill set.

D (25:20)

Boy, Cowboy fans, they're spoiled, there's no doubt about it. The first 30 years of the franchise, eight Super Bowls, five Super bowl wins, 20 consecutive winning seasons, your incredible run, three Super bowl titles, and in four years, last 30 years, not so much.

B (25:37)

Don't pay attention to those so much.

D (25:40)

Do you have hope? Do you see something in Will McClay, Brian Schottenheimer? Do you have a positive message for Cowboy fans that this can turn.

A (25:50)

Oh, man, you know, I wish. I wish I did. I guess I don't have a negative message for him. It's. But we. This has been going on a while,

D (26:01)

and I. NFL odds, maybe just catch up with them and.

A (26:04)

Hey, well, you would have thought. We would have thought. Yeah, we would have thought that would be the case already. It's. It's hard to imagine. I mean, it really is. And, and, and the other part of that is it's not like they haven't gone through years where they've won a lot of games. You know, they've been competitive. So if you, if you look at the. The league over the last, I don't know, 20 years, and you say who has had the most wins in the regular season? The Cowboys, I.

D (26:29)

Your top five, I do believe.

A (26:31)

Yeah, they're right around five or so. You know, I mean, they've. They've won a lot of football games and they've been the number one seed at times, and they've made the post season. It's just. It's interesting that it hasn't translated once they've gotten into the playoffs. And so that's the. So that's the hard part to try to figure out. I would say, well, maybe it's because they're playing better competition consistently, but to not have been able to win two playoff games in one season. And I guess going back to our last Super Bowl, I won one of those the next year in 96 against the Minnesota Vikings. But since I retired, I think they've won four playoff games. And that's. That's hard to believe. I think Dax won two, and I think Romo won two and.

C (27:12)

Makes no sense.

A (27:13)

And that's it. Yeah. And, and, and for the Cowboys to have the history that they have and to have. There was a drought before we went to the Super bowl in 92, and people were talking like that was unimaginable. How long that had been since Staubach had gotten the team to the super bowl, but they had gone to NFC Championship games with Danny White. So I don't know what the answer is, but there's got to be something. There's a reason why this is going on. And as I've said before, if I were in the building, I could give you some pretty definitive answers as to what that might be, but I'm not in the building, so I think it'd be a little irresponsible. I mean, everybody has their opinion. Sure, it'd be a little irresponsible for me to try to conclude what that might be, but it's not good enough. And I think everyone understands that.

B (28:10)

What's your relationship with Jerry Jones? How often do you see him? Often.

A (28:14)

You talk to him? I saw him at the owner's meetings a few weeks ago when I was there in Phoenix. But, yeah, I see him when we cross paths on the field before a Cowboys game that I'm calling. I think our relationship is cordial. I don't know really exactly how to define it. I don't see him a lot, don't talk to him a lot, but when I do see him.

B (28:38)

You didn't name any children after him or anything like that?

A (28:41)

No. Maybe that's where I messed up. You know,

D (28:45)

pictures on the beach with you and all white with the Jones family or anything like that?

A (28:48)

Yeah, I think that was. I think I'll look back on that one and say that was a big mistake, you know, not naming one of the girls after the Joneses.

C (28:58)

You guys are kind of neighbors. You never bump into him walking the dog or anything?

A (29:02)

No.

B (29:02)

Jogging at the same time you were.

A (29:04)

Yeah, no, I don't.

B (29:07)

Don't think Jerry jogs.

A (29:08)

Yeah, he hires someone to do that before.

C (29:10)

Walks the dog. You don't think he walks his dog?

B (29:12)

No way. The only time that Jerry would be outside of his house is when he's trying to get back in at 2am and jeans lock him out.

A (29:20)

Right.

D (29:22)

Tries to distract the dog.

B (29:24)

Come on, Gene, let me in. All right.

D (29:28)

What about former teammates you mentioned? You still keep in touch with a lot of them. And you put together the reunions, which were really cool of the. Of the super bowl teams. I guess it ebbs and flows. But how much do you keep in touch with the guys you played with?

A (29:45)

I keep in touch with quite a few of them. You know, obviously the ones that live here in Dallas, we cross paths. I see Emmett and Michael and Charles Haley, Darren Woodson, Daryl Johnston. You know, those guys at. At quite a few things. And we try to get together and we obviously support one another when someone has an event. Yeah, I did that reunion. You were a big part of it. Thank you for that. Which was great.

C (30:12)

Should be noted.

D (30:13)

I filled in for Joe Buck, who double booked himself.

A (30:15)

That's right.

D (30:16)

But I was glad to do it. That was an honor.

A (30:18)

Yeah, that was fun. And it is hard to believe that of the one reunion we had, I threw. You know, so I think what they typically have done for a reunion to honor some of those super bowl teams is invite the players to a game and sit in a box and then maybe be introduced at halftime or prior to the game. And I just felt that it Wasn't enough. I just thought that the guys deserved more than that. And so that's why I did it and try to do things like that from time to time to, to see those guys and, and let them know, as you know, that they're important. They're a big part of my story and big part of our lives together. And so a lot of, lot of great teammates that we, we reflect on the years that we spent and had a lot of fun together.

D (31:10)

All champions have their story, but that was just an amazing grouping of players. Just what Jimmy put together. And it was, you know, the Steelers were great, the Patriots, but man, that was a four or five year period of time. That was just incredible.

A (31:27)

Yeah, it was. You know, when I came in, I came in as, you know, with Jimmy and Jerry and it was, it was an odd time for me. I'd known Jimmy since I was about 14 years old. He was recruiting me when he was at Oklahoma State. I went to his football camp and all that. So I was, I was, I turned him down when I was coming out of high school, went to OU instead. I wouldn't have played for him had I have gone to Oklahoma State. He left right after signing Dayton, became the head coach at the University of Miami. But then when I was transferring from ou, he was recruiting me to go to Miami. And then I turned him down then. And then next thing I knew, I was in the middle of hiring an agent and was told the team just sold and the new owner from Arkansas is going to hire Jimmy Johnson. And I just thought, man, we just keep kind of going in circles with him. But then right after I get drafted, then they bring in Steve Walsh. And so that affected Jimmy and I and our relationship. Probably what affected it more than anything is winning just one football game that first year, you know, and I would never have imagined that we would turn it around as quickly as we did. But once we did, it was so fun. It was such a fun time to be in Dallas. The, the fans hadn't really had a lot to cheer about for so long and, and I didn't have any idea about really the history. I mean, I knew what stop. But, but as far as the, the fandom of the Cowboys fan in this city, it wasn't until that 91 season that we really got to see it, you know, because we hadn't won much. But then to have it end the way that it did with Jimmy leaving and things changing, it's, it was really unfortunate. And I, you know, you talked to Norv Turner and And Hudson Hauk and Dave Wanstead and a lot of these guys that went on and coached at a lot of other places and had long careers, they all look back and they say what we had during those years in Dallas, you just can't replicate. You know, it just doesn't happen. And when it does happen, boy, you got to kind of milk it for everything that it's worth. And I. And I do think that had Jimmy and Jerry not had it happen so soon in their time in Dallas, I think maybe they would have realized how fragile it is as well and maybe protected it a little bit better than what they did.

C (33:46)

George and I were at KRLD radio back then, and we were covering every game and going on the road trips. And I've always wanted to ask you this because I don't think I've ever asked you. The first time I ever met you, it was kind of in strange circumstances. I had just gotten hired at KRLD. It's 1990, and I'm sure you don't have a memory of this, but I.

A (34:07)

Not yet, I don't.

C (34:09)

So I'd been on the job for about two months. It's September or October. And Bradsham, who hired us there, called me, and I had the afternoon evening shift, and he called me. He said, I'm sick. He goes, can you host Sports Central Tonight, which was his talk show that he did from six to eight every night, and I'm brand new to the job, and I. But I'm not going to say no. So I said, sure, yeah, I can do it. And he goes, don't worry, you got built in guests tonight. First hour, Vern Lundquist. He'll be on the phone from his house in Steamboat Springs. Just talk football with him. Second hour, from 7 to 9, Aikman comes into the studio and he'll be great. And I'm like, okay, I think I can do this. But of course, I get really nervous because I'm talking to this legend, Vern, and I'm talking to you, the biggest name in the metroplex at the time. And so I remember you came in and I thought, he doesn't know me. I got to talk to him for an hour, which is. I also think that's weird back then that athletes would do a full hour weekly.

A (35:16)

That's right.

C (35:16)

With their radio deal. And I just thought, well, the only thing that I can think that we really have in common is we both spent a chunk of our childhood in Oklahoma. So I'll start the interview with that. And we did the first 10 minutes talking about Oklahoma and growing up there. And, and I think at that point you thought, okay, he's not too bad of a radio hoster. And I think the hour went well. But you don't have any memory of that, do you?

A (35:40)

I do not. I don't. My apologies. Yeah, that's okay.

C (35:46)

I figured you wouldn't. But it was a bigger deal to me because you were doing interviews every day, you know, for years and years.

A (35:52)

I did do a show with Brad every year that I played and it didn't matter where he was. So if he left networks and went to some other station, that's, that's where I went. And, and it's really. It's pretty much why I went into broadcasting. I mean, that's how I got into broadcasting. Quite honestly, I never had an interest in, in doing television. When I was playing and Brad. We were flying back from a game and Brad and Dale Hellstray were talking about NFL Europe. And I asked Brad, I said, why don't you go over and call some games in NFL Europe? Hellstray had been doing it for a few years. He said, I'd love to, but I haven't been able to get him to bring me over. And I said, shoot, they've been asking me for the last couple years to call games and I just haven't had an interest in doing it. But how about if I tell him I'll do it, but only if you're my play by play guy. And he said, that'd be great. So that's how it came about. And we went over there to Europe, we with Brad, and called our first game. And I think the comfort level that I had with him because of all these years doing this show that I knew my concern with broadcasting was that I didn't know how I was going to talk for three and a half hours. I would watch a game.

C (37:06)

Tell us about it.

A (37:07)

Yeah, I would watch a game and I'd say, how do these guys talk so much? Because I just never have felt like I'm that big of a talker, but then when you prepare and all that. So I went into that first game with Brad in Europe and I felt like if I never said a word, if I just got stage frightened, didn't talk at all during the game, I was confident Brad could carry the whole game.

C (37:28)

Yes.

A (37:28)

You know, so there was comfort in just knowing that I'm not forced to have to talk if I don't feel like talking. And, and really, I think part of, part of our Success or my success, I should say with, with Joe all these years is I feel the same way with Joe. Like I never feel like I have to jump in and talk. If I just don't feel like talking after that play that he'll see that I'm not and then he just jumps in and gets going. And I think most play by play are able to do that. I think they kind of have that gift. I remember when I was trying to decide when I retired if I was going to broadcast, I called Matt Millen and I asked him and I told him, I said, I just worry that if I don't have something to say that there's going to be this dead air and I've got to, you know. And Matt laughed and he says, trust me, he says, there's not a play by play on the planet that's not going to fill that dead air. You don't have to worry about it. He was right. He was right.

B (38:25)

So did you and Joe have an immediate chemistry or did it take a while to learn each other's moves?

A (38:31)

You know, our first three years, Gordon, we, we worked with Chris Collinsworth, so that was different. And then I was in a three man booth with Moose my first year. So the dynamic of a three man booth, way different. And so I wouldn't, I mean we, we hit it off. But it wasn't until Chris left and went to NBC and then they kept Joe and I in a two man booth that really our relationship, working relationship, began to evolve. And now I just know when, I can just tell by his cadence, even if there's a pause, I know if he's not quite done, even though the way he ended that comment, there could be a period right there and I could jump in. But I just know by his inflections that he's not done yet. And I think it's same for him that it's been, it's been really positive. One, we're great friends, but then to be able to work together the way that we have has been awesome.

D (39:28)

You guys are so good and it's, yeah, you never jump on each other. It's like you have that, that feel for, okay, this is my time to lay out or let the crowd go crazy or whatever it is. I don't have a story nearly as good as Craig's the first time I interviewed you, but I was on the beat when the UCLA Bruins came to town for the Cotton Bowl. Ironic that it's against Arkansas where all this started between Jimmy and Barry way back in the Day and Jerry a part of that as well. But from that day on, from the end of December 88 to when the draft came about in 89, and they had this ownership change and Tom Landry was out because Tom Landry and Gil Brandt were talking to you at Texas Stadium. I remember that. But the focus was on you. Here's the guy who's going to save the franchise, you know, here's the new Roger. I always thought you handled that well, especially when you guys went 1 in 15 when you were the starter that year. And in 89. Was there ever a time that. But in 89, you just thought, man, I don't know if I can do this. There's such a weight on me. How was this going to work out?

A (40:41)

Yeah, I was fortunate that. Well, first of all, that period of time was really crazy because, like I said, I was in Oklahoma City interviewing agents, and I ended up hiring Lee Steinberg. And in the process of that, you mentioned the Cotton Bowl. It was Gil Brandt and Tom Landry and Tex Schramm that, you know, they were the ones still running the organization. And then by the time the draft rolled around, Jerry had bought the team and Jimmy Johnson was the head coach. So a lot of moving parts as to what that was going to be like. But, you know, that Jerry Rome was the quarterback coach, and he just refused to let me lose confidence in myself. I was 0 and 11 as, you know, as the starter. And so there were games that I played in. There were a lot of games I played in that I didn't play well enough for us to win. So I wasn't surprised that we didn't win. But then there were a few other games where, Phoenix being one. I know we had the Dolphins down with Marino here at Texas Stadium. That game we lost at the. At the very end. And I just. I'd never really. I'd been on bad teams. I was on a bad team in high school. Our high school teams really weren't all that good.

D (41:54)

The Fighting Hands.

A (41:55)

The Fighting Hands, yeah. But Coach Billy Ho. That's right. Yeah. Nice.

D (42:02)

How did you know that? How the heck did you know that?

B (42:04)

I'm a sports guy.

A (42:05)

I have no idea how you know that.

D (42:07)

Figure that one out later.

A (42:09)

But. Yeah. So I just remember thinking, how. What do you got to do to win a game in this league? You know? And so, as tough as that was, fortunately, the very next year, I won the opener against the Chargers at Texas Stadium. So at least I. I find, you know, to start my second year, I got my first win. So that kind of put that to bed, which was, which was nice. But I, I never forgot how hard it was. I never lost sight of that. So when we did start to win, I never, I never took those, those, Those wins for granted. And I, And I think it served me well throughout the rest of my career. But I, I never questioned. And I always thought we'd win. I never thought about quitting. Just wasn't. Wasn't, you know, a part of me at all. If, if that had continued, what would my career have looked like? I mean, I have no idea. Would I have hung in there and played 10 years? 12? I have no idea. But what turned it around for us was when Norv Turner came in as the offensive coordinator. I mean, that's what gave us an opportunity on offense to be good. And once we got good on offense, our defense had been playing pretty good ball. So it changed everything for us.

B (43:25)

I have a question about grit, because you had. It's interesting that you come in the Cowboys and you go 1 in 15, and, you know, you get knocked on your ass a lot. And you also had that experience at ou, your first game starting, I think you were what, the first starting quarterback, freshman, natural freshman to start since World

A (43:43)

War II at OU.

B (43:46)

And you had a really bad game, tough time.

A (43:49)

Yeah.

B (43:49)

And the thought that may have been the first time that you had. Had gotten beaten that badly emotionally.

A (43:56)

Yeah.

B (43:57)

Did you ever think about that when you're in your first season with the Cowboys and realize I made it through that in college and that can inform me and, and inspire me now?

A (44:06)

Yeah. The. You know, that, that road that I took when I was at ou, I thought they were going to throw the football. They were recruiting half the class as though they were going to run the wishbone. It's why Keith Jackson signed. He was in the same recruiting class as I was. He was the number one tight end in the country. And people always ask me, why did you go to ou? Same reason Keith Jackson went to ou. We thought they were going to stay in the eye that had Marcus Dupree, who had just left, and then everything kind of changed. But that first year that I was there, that freshman year, you're talking about my first start, I was running scout team for the first six weeks of the season, or however long it had been. And I was. I was fourth. I was fourth string as a true freshman. The starter, Danny Bradley, got hurt. The backup, Mike Clopton, he was smart, but he had transferred and something dealing with the transcript, he was ruled ineligible. And then Kyle Irvin was the third string quarterback. He was a year ahead of me and for whatever reason they decided not to start him and start me. And I hadn't taken one snap with the regular offense. I was running scout teams. So the week of my start is when I first started taking snaps.

C (45:17)

That's crazy.

A (45:17)

I barely knew the offense and. And so they just thought we were playing Kansas. Kansas wasn't very good. They just thought we would hand the ball off and I wouldn't have to do much. Of course they didn't throw the ball much anyway. Running the wishbone with, with Danny Bradley. The first drive, we go right down the field, we get inside the five yard line and then they tighten everything up and we weren't able to punch it in. We go up three, nothing. And I'm thinking, thinking, well, this isn't so bad. This is pretty easy. Well, they got smart too, you know, they got coaches and so they decided this kid's never going to throw the football. And so they started stacking the line, daring us to throw it. And I had no idea what I was even watching. So I threw. I literally had no idea where I was throwing. I just dropped back hope and throw, you know, and I was terrible. You're right. My mom and dad had driven to Lawrence, Kansas. I had buddies that were there and I was just demoralized. I mean I'd never experienced that kind of defeat. I'd lost games. I'd been on bad teams, but not to where I just was. I had no clue what was going on. And fortunately for me, the next week we beat the team really bad. So I came in and mop up duty and things got better and so then transferred. And I was told at that time that when you transfer you really go into oblivion. No one's going to ever remember you again. So it was a bit of a risk transferring back then, but I knew it was my only opportunity to achieve what I'd hoped to. And. But there were some parallels when I got to Dallas on the experience that I went through at Oklahoma and some of the struggles I just, I just believed and not to get too far away from the question, but you know, my father was, he's still with us. He's tough, you know, and demanded a lot. I've been very open about that. And you know, you weren't going to quit in the Aikman house. I mean there were a lot of times when I would get frustrated about a sport. I remember in eighth grade in Oklahoma, the head coach was crazy and we weren't winning and I was really losing interest. And I talked about quitting the team and my dad made it very clear and he only has to do. He typically only had to say something once. And he said, you cannot play football when the season ends. You don't have to play next year, but you're not quitting. You're going to tough it out. We don't have quitters in this house. And so that was kind of the way I was raised. So I never thought about giving up. And I've always been more of an optimist when it comes to betting on myself and felt that we would get it turned around. And fortunately we did. And big reason for that is what you said, George, was Jimmy's ability to evaluate talent. As good as he was as a coach and as a motivator, his ability to eye talent and massage that roster was, I think, his greatest strength.

C (48:02)

Yeah, you played for Barry Switzer at Oklahoma and then later for the Cowboys. I know you guys have had an up and down relationship over the years. What's it like these days and what's that ride been like with Barry?

A (48:14)

Well, it's been quite a ride. You know, I mean, I've talked about Jimmy and how our paths crossed and then finally him coming to Dallas and me playing for him. Same. Same with Barry. You know, I knew Barry from the time I was 14 years old as well and went to his football camp and then obviously went to OU and Jimmy's leaving. Next thing I know, Barry Switzer's, you know, coming to be the head coach there. And then Terry Donahue almost got the job after Barry Switzer, before Chan Gailey. He was initially offered the job.

C (48:42)

I don't think I ever knew that.

A (48:44)

Yeah. And. Which is a whole nother story as to what happened there. And they ended up hiring Chan Gailey. But my, I love Barry, I truly do. And I did an event for him. I still, I still reach out to him, still talk to him. I did an event for him in Norman a few summers ago. He asked, he was. They were raising money for service dogs and asked if I'd come in. Keith Jackson and I went in and it was right there at the stadium where we're on the field and went up on stage with him and it was, it was fantastic. I went over to his house before the, before the event, got to catch up. I did an event with him and Emmett up at Choctaw a few years ago as well. I love Barry. And if I was down to one of my last Beers. Barry Switzer would be one of those guys I'd have that beer with. He's amazing. He's still sharp as he can be. He's not moving quite as well, but his mind is still amazing. He's great storyteller. I love the guy. You know, just him being the head coach when he was. It was. That was tough, I think. You know, I. It was a different style that, that was my only issue was when he was the head coach and where we were heading and how we were doing things. But as far as him as a guy and our relationship, I think the

D (50:07)

world of him, his greatest skill was just some say, oh, I have people skills. No one has people skills like Barry. Unlike his interest in people and just

A (50:16)

his ability to communicate and his recall. You think of all the athletes that he recruited, even the ones that didn't go play for him, that, I mean, years and years and years of recruiting the country. And he can tell you stories about each one of these guys, whether he actually coached them or not. And he's one of the. He's one of the biggest characters that I've come across and he's awesome. I mean, he really is. And I'm a huge fan of his. I hope he knows it. I was watching the documentary and, you know, it brought back a lot of emotions for me and some of it not so good, you know, I mean, it took me down a road that I wasn't really prepared to go down and. But there was a lot of self reflection that came with that. And while I was watching one of the episodes, I texted Barry and I just kind of laid it out there as far as what I was feeling and how I felt at the time and where I'm at now. And he got right back to me and was great about it. So, yeah, I'm a big fan. I think I can speak for him. We have a great relationship, still talk to them from time to time and think the world of them.

C (51:47)

So you mentioned that you're 59, George and I just turned 60. And you start looking at life a lot differently.

D (51:54)

It's going to hit you when you hit 60.

A (51:55)

We wait until you turn 60 months. Yeah, I'm not ready for that. I'll be honest with you. I haven't had a birthday yet that's bothered me and this one won't either. But it, it does get your attention.

C (52:06)

Yes, it's. It's different. So you, you start looking at life in a different perspective. Have you thought about how much longer you want to do the Monday Night Football gig or, you know, wherever you and Joe end up. And do you guys talk about it together? How much longer we want to do it together and do you want to go out together?

A (52:24)

I, I doubt we'll go out together because he's got, he's got twin seven year old boys and, you know, so he's got, you know, he's looking at another 11 years in the house and then you got four years of college. So I, I don't want to, you know, I think he's looking at a 15 year run, at least for me. Yeah, I have given some thought as to, as to how long I, I think I'll do this. There are those, there's a number of people, you all know them that say, oh, well, I would never retire. I'll never retire. I mean, what am I going to do with myself? I'm not that person. Like, there's lots of things that I can do to keep myself busy. Even in the off season. I get asked, hey, what do you do with your time in the off season? And I don't always have a great answer like, yeah, what do I do? But I know I'm busy, you know, I know I keep myself busy. And there's no part of me that thinks, gosh, you know, how could I do this for the entire year? I get to do it for six months. I mean, how could I do this for the entire year? I could do it very easily, quite honestly. So, so yeah, I've got an idea. Because there's a lot of places I want to go. There's a lot I like to see. I know you like to travel as well and it's important to me to get to those places and I'd like to do some of it in the fall as well. So I've got a great job, love my job, and it's been awesome raising two girls. But there is going to come a time when I'm just not interested in studying this player or what he does well. And you know, and then traveling every week for these games, I mean, at some point it just is like, you know, why am I doing this? So that'll come. I don't see it anytime in the immediate future, but I do have a ballpark number as to when I think I'll walk away from it.

D (54:11)

Well, it's been a great run for you as a player and a broadcaster and I know that's a.

B (54:16)

Has he really had success? Let's open up the phone.

D (54:19)

Yeah, you know, let's, let's debate that has Troy Aikman been successful. Successful. And the beer's doing well.

A (54:24)

It is doing well. It is doing well. Yeah. Really good. So I'm, I'm excited about it. I, I, I don't know that I believed in anything more than I believe in this brand. And we, we are punching way above our weight. You know, we're competing against some real heavyweights. And yet over the last year, we came out with new packaging, came out with a slim can, and it has really resonated as a, as a better for you. I think the, the slim can, I think the vessel itself lends itself to better for you and the consumer. It's gotten the consumer's attention, and they're realizing and we're at a kind of a sweet spot, and it's why I made the beer. But there's better for you in every aisle now in a grocery store, no matter what category you're looking at, there is a better for you section. And now with my beer, there is in the beer cooler as well. And I think people are understanding that, and it tastes and looks like beer. So it's doing really well and will continue to grow. And I'm really excited about the future.

C (55:24)

And Billy Bob Thornton ordered an eight elite light lager on the van.

A (55:29)

Yes, he did. It was awesome. And I've gotten to know Taylor Sheridan since then. He's been a big advocate for the beer. He reached out to me, in fact, a few months ago, says, hey, do you have time to talk for a few minutes? Said, sure. He called me up, says, I absolutely love your beer and I want to do everything I can to get behind it. I said, shoot, are you kidding me? Well, you can do a lot for it. There's no question about it. So I was at his event, actually, last week for a celebrity cutting horse event that he had at Will Rogers Memorial Coliseum in Fort Worth, and we had the beer, and so he's been fantastic. And it was a huge push for us when he got it in in Landman, and really appreciative of him doing that.

D (56:16)

Well, here you are in the off season, trying to unplug, get away from it, and you come in and do our podcast. We really appreciate it.

A (56:21)

You bet. Yeah, no, I, I appreciate you guys. You guys are awesome. I love doing the show with you, and anything you ever want from me, the answer is yes.

D (56:29)

Awesome.

C (56:29)

Appreciate that.

D (56:30)

Well, we, yeah, we have enjoyed this relationship over the years, and, yeah, we still see you as Troy Aikman, the amazing quarterback and announcer and beer connoisseur the whole thing, so.

A (56:43)

Well, thank you.

D (56:44)

Yeah. Kind of Chris Farleying out over here right now. It's a good way to end it. And thanks for the time, Troy.

A (56:52)

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

B (56:53)

Thank you, Troy.

D (56:54)

That is the great Troy Aikman with us on the Musers the podcast. You can send us an email at the Musers pod at Gmail. The Musers pod. And we'll talk to you next time on the Musers the podcast. The Hammer alley podcast. An 80s flashback mockumentary.

A (57:21)

Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock. But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened, a Hammer Alley. How did they go from top of the rock?

D (57:32)

I'm looking for a music video.

A (57:34)

They're a band from 1987, Hammer Alley.

C (57:37)

Ever heard of them?

D (57:38)

To rock bottom.

A (57:39)

Dude, I was born in 1987.

D (57:42)

I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.