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- [00:00]
Craig
And I believe kids today are developing quicker than they used to because some of the things that come out of our four year old's mouth, you know, the F word. I'm like, no, not the F word.
- [00:11]
Peter
It could be a parenting issue. The Musers the podcast episode 27, the Incredible Journey.
- [00:23]
Craig
Welcome to another edition of the the Podcast. I'm Craig.
- [00:28]
George Gordon
I'm George Gordon.
- [00:29]
Craig
This is America's favorite new podcast. How about that?
- [00:33]
Peter
Oh right, I know, I saw that.
- [00:34]
George Gordon
Great award.
- [00:34]
Peter
It was very impressive. Read about it.
- [00:36]
Craig
Looking forward to today's topic, Parenthood. Because in the 32 years that we've done our radio show, I've gotten more feedback on being a late in life parent than anything else that we've ever talked about. Any cowboys opinion I've ever had, any funny segment we've ever done. More people have come up to me with comments about parenthood than anything else. It touches so many people. And along those lines, it's time for our letter of the week. And this comes to us from Amy and she says, I'm listening to the episode about resolutions and goals and I wanted to share my proudest with you. I've never had much luck dating and I found that guys who like me are not the guys that I like and vice versa. As I climbed into my 30s, I started realizing that my dream to be a mother may not happen. On New Year's Eve 2007, I had the stark realization that every year that passed was my worse and worse than the previous year because I was just waiting for my real life to start. So in 2008 I started planning to become a single mother by choice. I made a three point plan. Number one, buy a home, Number two, get a new job. And three, pay off debt so I could afford a kid. When the housing market crashed later that year, I found I was able to afford a condo. I looked for seven months, found a place in late 2009. Then I started looking for a new job and found one that paid more and I started paying down my credit card debt. Three years later I was able to sell that condo for a decent profit, wipe out all the rest of my credit card debt. I finally had enough money to start the process of trying to have a baby. I got pregnant on my first IUI attempt and in 2014 had my beautiful son. Eleven years later, I've moved into a real house with a yard, taken my kiddo on a dream trip for my 50th and his 10th and generally have a better life than I could have ever imagined.
- [02:34]
George Gordon
It's awesome.
- [02:34]
Craig
That's a great question.
- [02:36]
Peter
Herself and a turkey baster.
- [02:38]
Craig
Yes, herself and a turkey baster.
- [02:41]
Peter
I wonder if she kept the turkey baster.
- [02:43]
George Gordon
No.
- [02:43]
Peter
Oh.
- [02:44]
Craig
But talking about our episode last week on New Year's resolutions and goals, there's an example of someone who made a plan, had this goal and fulfilled it.
- [02:54]
Peter
Yeah, no kidding. That's a big one too.
- [02:56]
George Gordon
Stuck with it for a period of years too. That's really impressive.
- [03:01]
Craig
So congratulations, Amy. If you'd like to email us, please do so at our podcast email address, themuserspodmail. And Amy's story about becoming a mother is a nice way to get into our topic this week on the Musers, the podcast parenting. So I just turned 60 in December.
- [03:22]
George Gordon
What?
- [03:23]
Craig
George, you beat me to 60 when you turned 60 back in June. And as we've talked about a little bit, and as you put it, George, in your text to me On My Birthday, 60 hits differently. And when we talked about this on our radio show, we got a lot of feedback from people in their 50s and 60s and they're approaching this birth date or they've gone through it and they all agreed it's just different.
- [03:50]
George Gordon
Yeah. And everyone will say it's just a number, don't worry about it. That's true. It's just a number. But it's also a matter of perspective and it just changes that a little bit. And there's a good way to approach it. Don't let a number limit you from doing whatever it is you want to do and all those cliches and all that. But yes, it, it hits a lot differently just knowing that you're to that point in your life, you're thankful for that and yet you know that you're about to die late on the back nine. What hole? You guys laughed early in the podcast, like episode two or three when I said, I think I've just put it out on 16, I think I don't know what hole I'm on.
- [04:32]
Peter
Yeah, 16, that's about right, isn't it?
- [04:34]
George Gordon
She's only had two holes left and one's a par three.
- [04:36]
Craig
I would like to think that I just made the turn and I'm going to live to 120.
- [04:42]
George Gordon
You could. That's possible, I guess.
- [04:44]
Peter
I got some bad news for you.
- [04:46]
Craig
But 60 hit me differently because I am a relatively new parent. I was 55 when our daughter was born. I am that older parent. I'm an older first time parent. And I never thought it was going to happen to me or for me. I was always open to being a parent, but I never desired it. I know a lot of women in particular have that innate desire to be a mother. And I do know a lot of my guy friends who had had a desire to be a father, and I never had that. I never once, until I turned 55, really wanted to be a dad.
- [05:25]
Peter
Yeah. I remember when you were debating whether or not to become a dad and how much hand wringing there was in that, and you were like, I just. I don't know. I mean, it's not necessarily my thing, but if she wants it, I guess I'm open to it. You were much more wishy washy about it.
- [05:43]
Craig
Yeah. Yeah. And there were three things that really tipped it for me. First, it was meeting my now wife. And it's the thing that she really wanted more than anything in life. She wanted to be a mom. And she was also getting a little late in life, so we had to kind of get after this. We needed to get married and then do this. But while I knew I wanted to be with her, I didn't really want to be a dad, and especially a late in life dad. And it made me wonder if I was up for it, if I should do it. And then, and I've told you guys this before, I've never mentioned it on the podcast, but there were three people that spoke to me, and one of them was my sister Claire. And I remember saying to her, having this discussion about whether I should become a dad at 55 or not. And I said, I just think I might be miserable. And she said, the love of a child has never been known to make anybody miserable. I thought, okay, sound advice, except when.
- [06:47]
Peter
The child goes haywire later in their teenage years, right?
- [06:51]
Craig
The second person was our buddy Randy. When I was bouncing all of this off of him, and he said to me, well, you know what? She wants matters too. And it was one of the first times in my life that I got outside of my world, everything being about me. And I thought, yeah, he's kind of right. What she wants matters, too. This is a 5050 partnership. And then the third person that spoke to me was actually a TV character on the Showtime show Billions, and it was Bobby Axelrod, who played the billionaire in that show. And he had an assistant who wanted to go to this party, but also wanted to go cross country to see a friend get married or something like that. And this person was talking to Axelrod and said, yeah, I'm kind of sad. I'm not going to be able to see my friend get married. And he said, take my private jet. You can do both. And she goes, no, that's just too much. And he goes, look, life is short. Do it all. And this all happened around the time that I had talked to Randy and talked to Claire. And I'm watching that show, and then he says, life is short. Do it all. And I thought, yeah, we're here for a blink of an eye. Over the course of human history, it goes really fast. Why don't I do it all? And that's one of the basic things to do, is procreate. Why not? I've kind of done whatever I want to do as a single person or things for myself. Okay, let's just go. So those three things kind of pushed me to. To could then go to my wife and say, let's do it.
- [08:40]
George Gordon
Well, it just proves that whether you're 55 or, in my case, 22, we were young parents. I don't know if you're ever really ready. In fact, I remember before our first one was born, we're about a month out, and I remember looking at my wife and saying, I don't think I'm ready for this just yet. I said, we were really young, and I don't know if I'm ready. And she said, well, you better get ready, because this is happening. And it really did take that last month. I don't know, it was like an athlete getting ready for a game to get my mind right. And I was still overwhelmed with joy when our first was born. And then that ride home when you're thinking, okay, where do we start? How do we do this? It's just. It's so overwhelming. But I told you through the years, in fact, I can even remember when we had our first. I remember, Craig, you came by our apartment, and we were just watching my oldest son, Brandon, one of those little rockaroos. He was swinging back and forth. I remember both of us just kind of staring at him and you thinking, I can't believe my friend is now a father. I was thinking the same thing, but at the same time, once that moment happened and then we were blessed to have two more, I just remember thinking, okay, I finally get this whole thing about a circle of life and that I have a purpose, and then I have, obviously a huge responsibility here, and especially with the first one, I also felt I finally done something worthwhile, because I've always just done things for myself. And what about me? And this? And. But I really just felt, wow, this is really something. And then just the. To see A life begin is just you can't. I tried to tell you about it through the years and I probably did a really poor job. But it's just you have to experience it to know that emotion.
- [10:45]
Peter
How scared were you at 22 though? Having scared to death because your career was not really fully established.
- [10:51]
George Gordon
We were finishing up college, we didn't have any more money. I mean, but I'm looking back on it and then once he was born, it was at the same time it was like I could take on anything.
- [11:05]
Peter
You grew 15 years overnight?
- [11:07]
George Gordon
Yes. I'm the protector of this woman and this little baby and worked two jobs and neither one of them paid much trying to finish up school. But I also felt somewhat invincible, like I can do anything.
- [11:23]
Peter
It's interesting to me because you guys have both the bookend experiences because you started so young and some people argue it's best to start young, you know, where then you have a life after kids as well.
- [11:36]
George Gordon
Right.
- [11:36]
Peter
And then other people argue. Now it's better to start later because you're a better parent because you've got more of your life figured out and you're more settled not only financially and career wise, but in your soul kind of thing. And I see arguments to both of them now. Biology of course, obviously favors having them young.
- [11:56]
George Gordon
Yeah. When you can still chase.
- [11:58]
Peter
Biology is not kept up with our politics. But. But yeah, but when you're older. I know so many people that have smoothed out and chilled so much and are so much better parents when they're older. That's why grandparents are. People are better grandparents than they are parents. Because usually their parents, when they're young and they're unsettled and they've still got tension and they're, you know, all that kind of thing.
- [12:21]
George Gordon
Sure.
- [12:22]
Craig
Yeah. The Am I going to be around for my daughter's high school graduation? First big job wedding, first child. That gets a little iffy when you have a child at age 55 like I did. But I don't think I would change it at all. If I had had a child in my 20s, I don't think I would have been a very good parent. I think I'm so much more patient now. I think I'm wiser now. She takes a crayon and draws on the wall when I was 25, I would have lost it. Now I just laugh.
- [12:58]
George Gordon
Yeah.
- [12:58]
Craig
Now it's just cute. Yeah. It's not a big deal.
- [13:00]
Peter
I value her more than the wall.
- [13:03]
Craig
I'm reminded of that Modern Family, the sitcom on abc. There was a Scene where Jay, who was the older dad, you know, he's probably 60, in his 60s, and he's married to Gloria. She's in her 20s or something, and they're pregnant. They're going to have a kid. And Gloria buys the headphones that you put on the mom's belly so you can talk to the kid through the microphone. And she's talking to the kid and she goes, here, Jay, say something. He doesn't want to say anything. And she goes, come on, say something. He grabs the microphone and he goes, hey, kid, it's your dad. Look, when you come out, I'm going to be a little older than you're expecting. But on the plus side, we're comfortable. And being comfortable, I think, has made me a better parent. You had the stress, George, of being a young parent, of where's my career going? Do I even have a career? But I had this kid, you know, when we had been at our radio career for 30 years, and. And I. I wasn't stressed about that. And I think that's really big because so much stress for young families and young couples and young parents is financially related.
- [14:15]
George Gordon
Sure.
- [14:16]
Craig
And if you have a kid at the tail end of your career, you know, you're. You're probably more comfortable than you were in your 20s.
- [14:23]
George Gordon
And yet I look back at those days, and those were when we didn't have two nickels. Those were some of the best days, you know. And, yeah, there was that stress. But, you know, as humans, I think we always come up with some sort of obstacle. Either I'm too young for this or I'm too old for it, or I don't have enough money or, you know, I'm not good enough to do this. I'm not responsible enough to do this. And I don't know, you know, I've made plenty of mistakes as a father, and maybe I would have done. Have done a better job when I was in my 30s or 40s or just whenever, but, you know, that's just when it happened. And like I said, there's that switch that goes off. I think, regardless of age, with most parents of, okay, we're doing this, and this is. We've never been on a voyage like this before. And it's funny, too, as you're. If you have more than one, you do treat the second one and third one differently in different scenarios. A different. I don't know if it's better or worse, but because of that, there is something to the first child, second child, and third child.
- [15:32]
Peter
The old birth Order thing.
- [15:33]
George Gordon
Yeah, the birth order thing is real. It really is.
- [15:36]
Craig
I want to do a whole podcast episode on birth order because I'm a firstborn, Gordo's a middle child, and George is a baby. Right. So I think that'd be great because we've got them all covered. You're exactly right about the. No matter what age you have a child, you don't feel prepared. You were talking how unprepared you felt at 22. I remember when we had our daughter, and my wife and I are in the hospital, and after a day, I think they said, time to go home. And we were like, whoa, way too soon.
- [16:07]
George Gordon
About two more days.
- [16:09]
Craig
Because the nurses were doing pretty much everything for us. Feeding the child and bathing, whatever.
- [16:14]
George Gordon
Hey, man, they get you right out the door.
- [16:16]
Craig
They get you out the door so fast. I remember looking at my wife as we're being discharged saying, I don't know what to do when we get home. She's like, I don't know what to do either. It's quite a daunting feeling. But millions of years of it being in our DNA and taking care of kids, you kind of figure out what to do.
- [16:33]
George Gordon
Yeah, yeah.
- [16:34]
Peter
And I always like, you know, usually the older woman, the mother's mother will be around to help. And I like seeing that generational thing of this is what we do as a species. You know, we raise young, and older generations help the younger generations.
- [16:49]
George Gordon
You know, that's funny. My wife says that food has never tasted better than the food my mom used to bring her when we would have babies. She said, I don't know what it is. Well, you go through that exhausting process. And then my mom was a good cook. But the point was that just that help, that. That guidance, and in this case, food.
- [17:14]
Peter
Tastes like love and care.
- [17:15]
George Gordon
Yes. It was just so welcomed. Absolutely.
- [17:18]
Craig
I am somewhat proud to say that I was never bothered by what people were going to say about me as an older parent. And I briefly thought about it because over the years, we've all laughed at Tony Randall when he had a kid at 78. Al Pacino had one at 83.
- [17:40]
George Gordon
Wow.
- [17:41]
Craig
Robert De Niro, 79. Mick Jagger, 73. My hero. Steve Martin had a child at 67. I remember when Dave Letterman had his son Harry at the age of 56, and we all couldn't believe he was having a kid so old.
- [17:57]
Peter
He was that young.
- [17:58]
Craig
But he was that young. And. And so when I was having a kid at 55, I thought, you know, some people are going to say, you're too old, that's unfair to the child. This and that. Well, I'm nowhere near Pacino or Jagger or De Niro and I feel like, and people say this all the time, but 55 these days does feel different than 55 when we were kids. All the 55 year olds that we knew, our friends, dads, they look like they had one foot in the grave and they probably weren't going to be around that much longer. But it never, ever bothered me. I always looked at it from a positive, at least from that standpoint, that I don't care what anybody thinks. I feel good about this and good about myself, and I think this is going to be fine.
- [18:43]
Peter
Well, and you're fortunate you also live in the age when there's so many older parents. I mean, it's crazy how far back we've pushed having kids nowadays. I know lots of older people that have parents, lots of women who have their first child in their 40s, mid-40s, and dads who have a kid in their 60s, which is just would have been crazy to think about back in the day.
- [19:08]
George Gordon
Yeah, and you shouldn't care what people think about it. Just like I had to get over that hump of, oh man, they're 22 and they're trying to get out of college. I mean, especially after our child was born, I didn't care about that. What? You know, didn't even register with me. Yeah, yeah, this is my son and this is our family and this is the way we're going to do it. And plus, you're working on, especially in the first four months, you're working on about an hour and a half asleep. So yeah, what do you care what, you know, Someone says, oh, is that the grandfather, you know, or. And I'm sure people looked at us and oh my gosh, they're just kids and they had that little baby and he's dressed like a hillbilly, you know, they must not have anything. And I guess really we didn't have a lot of material, but man, those were great, great days.
- [19:56]
Peter
Have you gotten that, Craig? Has anyone ever thought that said referred to your granddaughter?
- [20:01]
Craig
Oh, yeah, I get it. Probably every couple of months. I was at the airport recently and a gray headed guy came up next to me and goes, yeah, I've got a granddaughter too. I said, no, this is my daughter. I took her to a playground, an indoor playground, not too long ago, and they were asking me, has she ever been here? No. What about her parents? Do you know if they've ever brought her here, so I am her parent, so I do get that from time to time.
- [20:26]
Peter
Do you enjoy snapping that bear trap on people?
- [20:29]
Craig
Yes, I actually really do.
- [20:30]
George Gordon
Oh, I'm so sorry. What I meant was. Get ready for the Rush with Max Crosby.
- [20:46]
Peter
It's time.
- [20:46]
George Gordon
Don't miss the behind the scenes moments everyone's talking talking about.
- [20:50]
Peter
Regardless of what they say, I'll take the fine. I don't care.
- [20:53]
George Gordon
All Pro defensive end Max Crosby takes you beyond the field with exclusive insights. I could say this because I played them. This is the Rush. You guys already know what time it is. It was fire and we'll be right back on the pod. We'll be talking about it next week. The Rush with Max Crosby. Follow and listen on your favorite platform Football playoffs are here and Underdog is the best place to get in on all the gridiron action. Playing on underdog is easy. Just pick your favorite players and if if they'll go higher or lower on stats like touchdowns, rushing yards, receptions and more. Get them right and you could win up to 5,000 times your cash. Last week I took higher on Josh Allen's passing yards and I won big. Let's do it again this week. So what are you waiting for? Download the app today and use the promo code musers to score $75 in bonus entries when you play your first $5. That's promo code MUSERS. Underdog make picks win money must be 18 or older, 19 or older in Alabama and Nebraska, 19 or Colorado. For some games 21 or older in Arizona, Massachusetts and Virginia and present in a state where underdog fantasy operates. Terms apply. See assets.underdogfantasy.com web playandgettermsdfs.HTML for details. Offer not valid in Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Ohio or Pennsylvania. Concerned with your play? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit www.ncpgambling.org. in New York, call the 247 Hope Line at 1-877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny or 673-69.
- [22:24]
Craig
Yeah, and I thought about the negatives to being an older parent and one of them for me is I did wonder if I had the energy for the sleepless nights, especially with our work schedule. On the radio side doing morning radio, if I had the energy for changing diapers, I remember I think I even told my wife because I read that a famous bike racer made this deal with his wife that he would have a child and he was an older father too. But he's not changing a single diaper and that never sounded like, fun to me. But as soon as our daughter was born, I wanted to change every diaper. I loved it. There was just something very bonding about putting the baby down on that little table and changing the diaper, and you're taking care of it. And I ended up loving all of this stuff. Even the first three or four months, the sleepless nights, waking up every 90 minutes for feeding. We kept her in a bassinet right next to our bed. So we're all waking up every 90 minutes now. My wife, who was actually doing the feeding, it was a lot harder on her. But I found that even though I was getting up at 4:30, I'd look at the clock. Oh, I got to get up in two and a half hours. I found those three months to be so incredibly rewarding. Just all three of us in the bed, feeding our newborn.
- [23:47]
Peter
And there was just something very timeless about that.
- [23:50]
Craig
Yes. Beautiful.
- [23:51]
Peter
You feel like you're part of a very long, long story of human history.
- [23:55]
Craig
Could have been in a cave somewhere doing that 500,000 years ago.
- [23:58]
Peter
It's primal. Yeah.
- [24:00]
Craig
It was just. I loved all of that. So everything that I thought I would hate, everything I thought I'd love, I've loved. And everything that I thought I would hate, I've loved.
- [24:09]
George Gordon
Yeah.
- [24:10]
Craig
Yeah.
- [24:10]
George Gordon
That whole thing about, okay, I'll become a parent and I'm not going to do that part of it. I just.
- [24:15]
Peter
I remember June's talking like that.
- [24:17]
George Gordon
I don't know if that. I don't know if that flies in our modern society these days.
- [24:21]
Craig
I just.
- [24:21]
George Gordon
I don't know. I mean, I guess it does for some, but. Yeah, it's a shared experience. It's shared responsibility. And now, as a grandfather, I have made the decree, I don't change dirty diapers anymore. I've changed a couple.
- [24:36]
Craig
But there might be something.
- [24:38]
George Gordon
I told him I've retired from that.
- [24:40]
Craig
I can see the difference between a grandsons and a sons. You want to change the sons? The grandson is slightly removed, so maybe it's a little different.
- [24:53]
George Gordon
Yeah. And with me, it's just, hey, I've been in the game for a long time. Let's let someone else do this. But I have done it. It's just. It's not my favorite thing to do. I would say when there's one of those big blowouts, and every kid is destined to have a big blowout.
- [25:10]
Craig
Also in the pros list of being.
- [25:11]
Peter
An older granddad is too, by the way.
- [25:13]
George Gordon
Yeah, that's true.
- [25:14]
Peter
Yeah.
- [25:14]
George Gordon
Oh, yeah. You think that's good? Watch this.
- [25:17]
Peter
You counter program with your own.
- [25:19]
Craig
Yeah.
- [25:20]
George Gordon
At some point you change me too, huh?
- [25:22]
Craig
The son or grandson will be changing you.
- [25:24]
Peter
Yeah, I know.
- [25:24]
George Gordon
So I guess I should do it. Pay it forward.
- [25:29]
Craig
Also on the list of pros about being an older father is not just, you know, being patient and you think you're wiser and things like that, but it's also, I don't know, there's a calmness about everything in life. And so it leads you to be more, I think, observant about how your child is growing. And maybe it's because you went so long in life and you weren't a parent and now it's kind of an out of body experience to be witnessing this thing, but it is the most fascinating thing that I have ever gone through is watching a human, not just the body, but in particular the brain develop. I believe kids today are developing quicker than they used to because some of the things that come out of our four year old's mouth, I swear I didn't hear out of my mouth or my friend's mouths until we were 12. You know, I'm like, no, not the F word.
- [26:36]
Peter
There'd be a parenting issue.
- [26:37]
Craig
Yeah, not the F word, but they're, I don't know, they're just these adult, like, phrases. And I think technology has a lot to do with that tv and.
- [26:45]
George Gordon
Yeah, but it, and well, she spends a lot of time around y' all too. You're both very present. And so she hears adult conversation. And I don't mean in a bad way, I mean in a good way. You know, that is probably sped up her, her process. But yeah, I, I think you're right. And there's. Whether it's good or bad, there's screen time, which I think is higher now for the average kid than it was 20 or 30 years ago, which we.
- [27:10]
Craig
Really try to limit. Yeah, we don't let her watch too much TV, you know, 45 minutes a day or so at most. Some days she'll go without wanting to watch tv, which I think is good.
- [27:22]
Peter
What are her shows?
- [27:24]
Craig
Oh, man, you name it. Anything on Disney with a princess, Paw Patrol. I mean, she's got 50 different shows.
- [27:34]
George Gordon
That show is so unstable, that Paw Patrol.
- [27:37]
Peter
What's unstable about it? I don't know this one so well.
- [27:40]
George Gordon
They're dog superheroes and they can fly helicopters and they save people and they talk.
- [27:44]
Craig
And one's a cop.
- [27:46]
Peter
One of them's a cop?
- [27:47]
Craig
Yeah, One's a fireman, one flies a helicopter, one's a water expert. One's a snow expert.
- [27:53]
George Gordon
Yeah.
- [27:53]
Peter
You know, I've always asked this question when Kiddom comes up. Why do we make kids shows with animals? Why aren't we. Why aren't they people in the kids shows?
- [28:05]
George Gordon
Somehow kids identify with animals more.
- [28:08]
Peter
Why do they identify with animals more than people?
- [28:10]
Craig
I don't know.
- [28:11]
Peter
They're humans.
- [28:12]
George Gordon
Paw Patrol's a great idea. They're cute. They're pups, really. They're not even full grown dogs, it looks like. And yeah, I think we can identify with that. Or characters under the sea. A sponge who has a friend who's a squirrel who's got a fishbowl on her head so she can breathe underwater. And then. Yeah.
- [28:30]
Craig
She does not like SpongeBob, by the way.
- [28:31]
George Gordon
Really?
- [28:32]
Peter
Yeah.
- [28:32]
Craig
She does not want to watch that. Maybe she's a little young.
- [28:36]
George Gordon
She may be a little young. Yeah.
- [28:38]
Peter
Yeah. Get her on the Simpsons in South Park.
- [28:41]
Craig
Yeah. The other positive to being an older parent is the kid keeps you young. It really drives you to physically stay as young as you can, but it also keeps you mentally. Things I thought that had passed me by, like, what are the popular cartoons now? It keeps you tied into that in the young language. And she comes home from her pre K school, which. That's a whole nother topic, how competitive schools are for three and four year olds. Unbelievable. But anyway, she comes home from pre K with language that she's heard that day and what the kids are saying. So I think that's good. It's going to keep my mind young as I try to keep up with her.
- [29:27]
Peter
She's saying six, seven a lot.
- [29:29]
Craig
She is. They've got a six, seven school song that they sing at school.
- [29:33]
George Gordon
Oh, my gosh. Filtered down to the four year olds. Yeah, I think it does. It certainly did with me that to have an appreciation for what they like, whether it's, you know, at this age, animated shows, which I could really relate to even as an adult, but music, you know, you guys make fun of me for liking boy bands. Well, I like them because my kids liked them, you know, and they listened to it and I thought, hey, you know, 98 degrees was pretty good. So it was NSync. Yeah.
- [30:06]
Peter
But you're still into them, which is the weird thing. I'm not into them going to their reunion shows.
- [30:11]
George Gordon
Never gone to a show.
- [30:13]
Craig
My daughter has introduced me to Taylor Swift.
- [30:15]
George Gordon
See, there I had.
- [30:16]
Craig
I never heard one of her songs all the way through, ever.
- [30:19]
George Gordon
She enlightened you.
- [30:20]
Craig
And now I kind of like her.
- [30:22]
George Gordon
Yeah, she writes a good song.
- [30:23]
Craig
Pretty good.
- [30:24]
George Gordon
She writes a really good song.
- [30:26]
Craig
Also on the list of cons, I really think on the list of cons of being an older parent, I think they're all biological. Like when I sit on the floor with her to play a game cross legged and I go to stand up, it, I feel it.
- [30:43]
George Gordon
Yeah.
- [30:43]
Craig
It takes me a while to stand up where 20 years ago I would have popped up without thinking about it. So that's, it's the main thing that I think of when growing old with her. I need to try to stay as physically young as I can and be able to pick her up, you know, and run after her and sit on the floor with her without being in too much pain.
- [31:05]
Peter
What about concerns of the world environment? What, what is her future world going to look like? Has that entered into your mind yet?
- [31:13]
Craig
That's a good one too. Yeah, I think about that a lot, although I try not to because I can't control most of that. And it, as we've talked about on this podcast, it feels like we're heading towards a doomsday type scenario.
- [31:28]
Peter
Yeah.
- [31:30]
Craig
And I, I don't know if that will happen in her lifetime. It seems like it might. She lives to be, say, 80 or so.
- [31:37]
George Gordon
But you know, what were our parents thinking in the 60s, right. With Vietnam, the threat of nuclear war, you know, the 70s weren't much better. The 80s, we still, you know, wondered about that. I remember my, my oldest son was born in the 80s. I remember thinking the same thing. My second one was born just months before Desert Storm happened. And I remember as a parent being really freaked about that, like, oh my.
- [32:03]
Peter
Gosh, what if that spreads?
- [32:05]
George Gordon
Is this going to be just going to be the, the rest of his life? And nine, 11 with our youngest son, he was one when that happened. And I thought, what, what sort of world have we brought him into? And is this going to be, you know, for all of his life? Is he going to deal with terrorist attacks? So, yeah, it's. So it's probably nothing new in the course of. Right? Yeah, it's something new. Yeah.
- [32:29]
Craig
And I would say gordo to that is that's not a reason to not bring a kid into the world. Right. Because you do hear that from some people. I don't want to bring a kid into this world, but I would say that's what we're here to do. And yes, at any point in human history you could probably have made that argument.
- [32:47]
George Gordon
Right.
- [32:47]
Craig
We can't bring a kid in this world. That dinosaur is going to eat her, you know, Right. So I think you just plow ahead and you don't spend too much time thinking about it. Although if you have particular causes that you think will help save the world, then you probably impart those to your kid and hope that they join the fight and maybe make a difference. But it's a thought for sure.
- [33:12]
Peter
So what about the fear of the kids bullying her at school or some of those bits of emotional suffering that you have to go through as a parent because you know that your kid's gonna have to go through them?
- [33:25]
Craig
Yeah, that's probably the biggest thing that I struggle with, having a daughter. The two things that I struggle with the most are because we know that girls bully in a more insidious way than boys do. In school, boys will just come up and push you down in the dirt and then you fight it out.
- [33:45]
George Gordon
Right.
- [33:45]
Craig
But girls launch this guerrilla warfare for years behind the scenes backstabbing and marketing campaign, and they don't fight it out. Boys will fight it out and maybe settle it. Girls don't. It just continues.
- [34:02]
Peter
They'll smile to each other's face and then fight behind the scenes for the.
- [34:05]
George Gordon
Next three years destroying.
- [34:07]
Peter
You don't even know it.
- [34:08]
Craig
And we've had enough friends who have experienced that with their daughters at school that I'm really worried about that. And the other thing is, since she's my daughter, I worry about her meeting the wrong guy. That's maybe my number one or girl.
- [34:26]
Peter
Why are you being heteronormative or girl.
- [34:27]
Craig
Whatever it is, meeting the wrong partner that mistreats her, that abuses her mentally or physically, I could not live with that. And I mean, we all know men and women who have fallen into horrible relationships. It's human nature. You're attracted to someone and then, I don't know, a third of the time, half the time it turns out to be really bad. And I just don't want her to go through that.
- [34:52]
Peter
And, and the thing is, is that as a parent, there's only so much you can do. I mean, she, she's going to be a teenager and an adult and in relationships. And you may have a very strong opinion on it, but she is in love with a person.
- [35:06]
Craig
Right.
- [35:07]
Peter
So you can only say so much.
- [35:10]
Craig
Yeah.
- [35:11]
George Gordon
Yeah. And it brings you back to square one that we were talking about. How is she or he going to deal with life? This life's in front of them. How are they going to. But you just have to, I don't know, just like the football coach, take it day by day, stack good days on top of the other and you know, and hope for the best and hope that it turns out right.
- [35:31]
Peter
And so Giorgio, when you faced your boys growing up and then they're having to make decisions as adults like how much did you step in and help them out? Because I think this has also changed as generations have worn on to where now present day generations stay involved in their kids lives probably a lot longer than our parents or certainly their parents did. There used to be an idea that when you were 18 you were on your own like you were an adult. But now some kids live with their parents for quite some time and I have no negative opinion for that.
- [36:12]
George Gordon
No, I don't either. I think with some kids it makes sense financially and. Yeah, absolutely.
- [36:18]
Craig
And especially with the college debt a lot of kids graduate with. Yeah.
- [36:22]
George Gordon
Try to pay that off or any sort of money that you want to save to do something. You know, all three of my boys have asked some sort of advice, you know, professional advice or personal advice and.
- [36:35]
Craig
But.
- [36:39]
George Gordon
That'S a really interesting question because sometimes I think especially my wife did a good enough job to where they were pretty level headed after they turned 18. And while we had those discussions and I tried to give them my best advice that I could and I still do, we still talk, you know, jobs and things like that. Hey, what do you think ought to do? I think maybe they're calling their mom because they may get better advice there. No, we've had those conversations and I think the middle part, we left out the teenage years where the conversations you have are not always pleasant. And that was, I think that was the toughest part about being a parent was when they start offering resistance of we're no longer the best buddies in the whole world and who are you to tell me what to do kind of thing.
- [37:34]
Peter
Yeah, because as parents, I guess you are a God for a long time to that kid. And then all of a sudden you're the stupidest person on the earth to them. It's so weird how far parents fall when they hit adolescence and they start going through their very necessary developmental process of divorcing their themselves from their parents. That's what we do in adolescence. And, and I look back at my teenage years and I regret so much of how I treated my parents.
- [38:04]
Craig
I do too.
- [38:05]
George Gordon
I, I do too.
- [38:06]
Peter
Inconsiderate I was of them.
- [38:08]
George Gordon
We all do. But that I think as a parent, the good news is, and I always tell parents this, they do come back. They come back and they realize, yeah, I wasn't always the best kid and I Wasn't always the best son or daughter and they realized that and they, you know, their head stops spinning around and then they look at you and will say or do something normal. But yeah, that is a really tough time and I think that's a critical time as a parent that you, that you do the right thing and you love them back just like you did when they were one month old. And that's the one thing that I think can carry them through of, gosh, mom and dad really do love me unconditionally and they were nice to me.
- [38:51]
Peter
When I didn't deserve to be nice. Yes, nice to.
- [38:54]
George Gordon
Yes, that, that brings them back.
- [38:57]
Craig
I do hold out hope though, because I talked to my sister about this. I said, yeah, this is going to be great until the teen years. And she said our teen years were great. Her, her son, daughter didn't offer any of that attitude or resistance. So it is possible. I think she's probably in the minority. I think most teenagers get a mind of their own and start experiencing this free will and, you know, wanting to be adults. But I do hold out hope that the teen years could be smooth.
- [39:25]
Peter
Hey, so much of it, I think, is what friends they fall in with. Yeah, absolutely, 100% because that becomes their most dominant influence in their teens is the, is their friendship group, their peer group and you fall in with bad ones and. Oh boy.
- [39:39]
Craig
Yeah, my mom always said that to me growing up through my teen years and early adulthood. She said, I never worried about you because you had nice friends. And I'm going to think back to it. I always did have really nice friends. And any of my friends who were kind of troublemakers, I somehow started putting a little distance between me and them.
- [40:02]
Peter
Yeah, I ran to them.
- [40:05]
George Gordon
And with all three of my boys, I would say 90% of it was good. But let's say it was even 5 to 10% that was challenging. It's those moments that as a parent keep you up at night till 3 o' clock wondering that I say the right thing, that I do the right thing. Is he doing the right thing? How do I solve this riddle? Yeah, it's that, that whatever that that percentage is, at least with me, was really difficult. And as we were talking about the difference between being older, I think as I got older, I got better. And I've had to tell my oldest son several times, you know, I'm sorry, I could have done a lot better and handled that a lot better as I did with your brothers, because of experience, you know, what did you feel like?
- [40:51]
Peter
How did you handle something differently with a third one than you did with the first one? Like what? Where did you think that you erred?
- [40:58]
George Gordon
I, I would think I would just listen more instead of just, you know, shooting back with some sort of counterpoint. Like I think I told you a long time ago, someone told me once, arguing with a teenager is like arguing with a trunk. You just don't do it.
- [41:15]
Craig
Yeah.
- [41:16]
George Gordon
You know, and I, I got better at practicing that and just. Okay, I understand that's the way you.
- [41:21]
Peter
Feel, but who told you that quote?
- [41:23]
George Gordon
I think we, I think it was at some, I think it was like a, like some conference that was like.
- [41:31]
Peter
About parenting.
- [41:32]
George Gordon
About parenting, yeah. And I just remember writing that down thinking, boy, that's really good advice because sometimes you feel that way, that whatever you say is not going to be met with any sort of.
- [41:43]
Peter
Yeah, you have a.
- [41:43]
George Gordon
Welcome to respond.
- [41:44]
Peter
You have a feeling like, well, if I present it logically and it'll make sense to them. Now it's not going to make sense to them. You know why? Because it came from you.
- [41:50]
George Gordon
Right.
- [41:50]
Peter
And that's who they disagree with. Oh, okay, yeah, whatever.
- [41:54]
Craig
And it's not going to get dad. Okay, sure. It's also not going to make sense to them because their brains are not fully formed. And that's what I. The hardest thing through the first four and a half years of parenthood for me is realizing this is a four year old brain. They can't really reason, they can't really control their emotions. Yet that new study came out that said the brain doesn't fully develop. We used to think it was 25, now it's 32.
- [42:20]
Peter
Oh, Lord.
- [42:21]
Craig
Wow. So certainly through their early years, their toddler years, and you're saying don't do that. And then you can't figure out why they don't do that. Well, it's because this brain is in its infancy. It's trying to figure things out. I mean, it's still really struggling to figure things out in the teenage years, in the twenties. So at four, of course you're not going to be able to talk any sense into a four year old. You just have to write it the best you can.
- [42:52]
George Gordon
I'm just thinking back to some of the scenarios we went through without saying too much. Declassified information. Yeah, yeah, we'll declassify it here. But with one of my kids, they had responsibilities. You know, keep your room clean, you know, pick up your clothes, take him to the laundry room, and with one, he would have his. Put your clean clothes away. That Your mom has cleaned or we did try to incorporate them to do a little bit of this work, but one of them would not put his clothes up. Just wouldn't put it in his room. It was just a mess. So he cleaned his room up. All the clothes are gone. The problem is, all he did was put the clean clothes and the dirty clothes in the hamper and take that down to the laundry room. So as my wife's going through the laundry, there's folded shirts that she had just folded three days prior. And she's like, why would they do that? But think back to when we were teenagers. I can fold laundry.
- [43:51]
Peter
That's yalls job.
- [43:52]
George Gordon
Doesn't bother me that that pair of pants is on the floor. I didn't ask why Is it important for them?
- [43:56]
Peter
Yeah, y' all brought me in this world. You take care of everything.
- [44:00]
George Gordon
So wrong.
- [44:01]
Craig
You know what our 4 year old said to us the other day? She said, I want to be a grownup. I said, why? So I can say, don't do this, don't do that.
- [44:12]
Peter
She can command people around, too.
- [44:14]
George Gordon
Yeah, I want to do some of that.
- [44:15]
Peter
Y got a pretty sweet gig.
- [44:25]
Craig
All right. I want to bounce a couple of things off of you guys and tell me where you stand on this in terms of parenting spanking. Because I cannot tell you how many times in the four and a half years we've had our daughter that I've wanted to spank her because I got spanked. I think you guys got spanked. I don't think anybody really spanks anymore other than child abusers. Maybe there are some people who think they're controlling it. We, of course, do not. And we decided we would never do that. I could not imagine doing it. I could not imagine striking my child in any way, shape, or form. However, there have been so many moments where all hell's breaking loose, and I have wanted to.
- [45:13]
Peter
I think spanking's still around. I mean, I think that it's. You know, obviously there's different cultures that still practice spanking.
- [45:22]
George Gordon
Yeah.
- [45:23]
Peter
But, yeah, in general, I think that the rates of spanking have gone down, and I think it's kind of a bad idea. I mean, I think that it's great. Now that there's timeout is another alternative that people have done. I don't remember timeout when I was a kid.
- [45:39]
George Gordon
No.
- [45:40]
Peter
I did not remember my parents ever saying, you know, take a time out. You're in time out.
- [45:45]
George Gordon
Yeah.
- [45:46]
Peter
And I know that as a problem child myself, that spanking was the only thing that would ever motivate me.
- [45:55]
Craig
Yep.
- [45:55]
George Gordon
That's why I still don't think it's such a bad idea if you strategically place it.
- [45:59]
Peter
Strategically strike.
- [46:00]
George Gordon
And I don't know when the tactical strike. Well, obviously, you know, you're not gonna whoop them, but I. I still don't think it's such a big a bad idea. So, Yeah, I don't know what the rate. The rates are for. For percentages of those who still spank their kids. I. I don't think. And they always say, well, you shouldn't spank in anger. Which is true, but at the same time, when else are you going to.
- [46:29]
Peter
Well, that's the thing is that the. The calm spanking is almost the creepier one.
- [46:35]
George Gordon
Right.
- [46:36]
Peter
When your parent says, you know, okay, the situation is now over with, let's say they get it settled, you go into timeout, and you're going to get a spanking later on when everything calms down, and then the parent comes into your room as some detached Hannibal Lecter character wheeled in on a dolly with zero emotion to execute justice on you.
- [46:56]
George Gordon
Yeah, I had those moments waiting for my dad to get home from work, knowing that he would occasionally use the belt. It only happened a couple of times. It only needed to happen a couple of times.
- [47:08]
Peter
That's the thing about spanking. Yeah.
- [47:10]
Craig
I remember two spankings in a childhood.
- [47:12]
George Gordon
Good.
- [47:13]
Peter
It's good enough to govern you.
- [47:14]
George Gordon
Don't talk back.
- [47:15]
Craig
I think I remember two spankings from my dad, but knowing the threat was there kept me in line.
- [47:21]
Peter
Yeah.
- [47:21]
Craig
The other 15 years.
- [47:23]
Peter
Half of my childhood was spent begging my mother not to pass along information to my dad. Please don't tell that. Please, just. Please, just don't.
- [47:31]
George Gordon
Just tell Joe.
- [47:32]
Craig
No.
- [47:33]
Peter
I'm going to tell your father when he gets home. I'm going to tell. No, mom, come on, come on, come on. Please, please, please, just don't.
- [47:39]
Craig
There have been a couple times where I've said to my daughter, do you want a spanking? And she kind of stops. And I don't even think she knows the definition or what that is, but because of the way I say it, she'll stop and look at me and go, no.
- [47:53]
George Gordon
Of course not.
- [47:54]
Craig
But I don't think I could ever, ever spank her. I would feel horrible about it. But our. Our parents didn't feel horrible about it. I mean, maybe they did, but they did it. The three of us were spanked. But look, we're ending up hosting a podcast. Didn't really do anything too bad.
- [48:10]
Peter
Yeah, we were so psychologically damaged that we became funny people that could then monetize that funniness.
- [48:17]
George Gordon
And, you know, and I, some of the parents I used to hear give these long speeches on why you don't spank were also the kids or who had kids who would talk to them in a way that. How do you let your child talk to you that way? Whatever your idea of discipline is, it's not working. How could you let your 8 year old talk to you like that or talk to your wife like that? I never understood that.
- [48:41]
Peter
Don't spank your kid, but your kid calls you Judith.
- [48:44]
George Gordon
So something weird about y' all's situation, I don't know. Yeah, I can't say it's right or wrong. It's, it's. Yeah, it's a tough one.
- [48:55]
Craig
What about free range parenting?
- [48:57]
Peter
I think that's a fascinating idea. Scary as hell.
- [49:01]
Craig
Yes.
- [49:01]
George Gordon
Gotta help me out with this.
- [49:03]
Peter
So these are people who, I guess they really kind of have no rules for their kids.
- [49:09]
Craig
They just let the kids. It's the way that our parents, in a way. I told the story on the podcast about my parents letting me ride my bike across the state of Oklahoma when I was 14. That's free range parenting. Let him go. And I remember talking to my sister. We were at a little league baseball game. My nephew was playing and his game hadn't started yet and he was out wandering around somewhere. And I said, where did Gabe go? And she said, I don't know. And I said, this is like downtown Austin. I said, aren't you worried? She goes, no, just let him go. And that's how she parented. Maybe not quite as free range as our parents, but these days, and I think we pinpointed this started somewhere in the 90s where parents got really helicoptery and scared to let their kids out of their sight. But before that, when we were all growing up, parents let us out of their sight all the time. They just let the kids be free range and go out and figure it out on their own and cross your fingers that a kidnapping doesn't happen. And 99% of the time it doesn't. But those parents will argue, but what about the 1% of the time? So that's why you got to keep your eyes on them. But I think it does develop a more independent personality. A kid that's probably more independent and confident. I think there are a lot of positives about it. But when I think about free range parenting our daughter, I don't know, I get a little sick to my Stomach.
- [50:42]
Peter
Thinking, letting her wander around the neighborhood.
- [50:44]
George Gordon
Yeah, yeah. At what age do you let her wander around?
- [50:47]
Craig
Certainly not now at 4, but. Yeah. What age is it?
- [50:50]
Peter
Would you let her walk home from elementary school like a first grader, second grader?
- [50:54]
Craig
Man, how far a walk is it?
- [50:56]
Peter
Let's say mile and a half.
- [50:59]
Craig
Gosh.
- [50:59]
George Gordon
Not many parents would do that.
- [51:01]
Craig
No, I don't think I would.
- [51:02]
George Gordon
And I don't blame him. There are a lot of creepy people in this world, unfortunately.
- [51:08]
Craig
But it's also a more secure world than ever with cameras everywhere and people are more vigilant to those creeps.
- [51:14]
George Gordon
Yeah, that's a. That's a real tough one. There is a balance there because I do think you have to be careful that you don't go the other way, being too much of a helicopter. Whether that's observing them 24, 7 or, you know, when they get homework, it's okay to work on it with them, but you don't need to solve all of their math problems for them.
- [51:36]
Peter
And the parent, that does a disservice to the kid, big time. A parent doing a parent project or a homework for the kid. And it's a horrible trap to fall into. I get why parents do it, but it ultimately, it's going to make that kid have a lifelong problem that they will have to battle.
- [51:52]
George Gordon
Yes.
- [51:53]
Peter
Because I remember the few times that my parents stepped in, did projects with me and I learned that that was a resource I would always learn. Oh, all I have to do is wait till the last moment and then they'll step in because my mom doesn't want me to fail.
- [52:05]
George Gordon
Right.
- [52:05]
Peter
So then she would help me out. And I think the way it affected me was then I started internalizing the sense of incompetence. Like I couldn't get it done.
- [52:14]
George Gordon
Yeah.
- [52:15]
Peter
And so I never, because I was never forced to learn those skills and build those muscles of kind of consistent work towards that goal, getting it done in time, all that. And then my whole life has been playing catch up ever since.
- [52:28]
George Gordon
Boy. And I'll tell you another area of a helicopter parent. A child is corrected by a teacher or a coach. Well, you just hang on a minute.
- [52:37]
Peter
The parental defense lawyer.
- [52:39]
George Gordon
Yes. And then the. Here comes the defense lawyer of, of the parent where, I mean, my parents always seem to side with the teacher.
- [52:48]
Craig
Yes.
- [52:48]
George Gordon
Or if, you know, if they say you were acting up, then you were acting up, or if you didn't do this. Right. That's on you. It's not, hey, we're going to try to get this Teacher fired now. And I think there's so much of that that's just nuts. Yeah.
- [53:04]
Craig
Is this wrong? But I'm also a little less likely to free range parent with a daughter than I would be with a son because I would think my son can.
- [53:15]
Peter
Physically is more competent physically take care.
- [53:18]
Craig
Of himself, defend himself a little better than my daughter.
- [53:23]
George Gordon
But I think when you're talking eight or nine years old, the answer that if they're up against an adult. Not really. You know, but no, I understand what you're saying and we've always felt that way about daughters or sisters. But yeah, it's probably the same for both.
- [53:39]
Craig
Gordo, talking about letting kids do things for themselves. I'm already experiencing that at four with a four year old daughter. I'm trying to back off because it's my tendency and it's the first time I've been through this raising a kid. I want to help her with everything. And I think the phrase she utters the most is I can do it.
- [53:58]
Peter
Right. And you have to let that. I think as a parent has to be the most frustrating thing is letting the kid do things really poorly.
- [54:06]
Craig
Yeah.
- [54:07]
Peter
And you can't step in when they're. And it goes on up when they're screwing up laundry and everything. And every parent I think must have the idea of. I just, I handle that for them just because it takes too long to sit there and mentor them through it and they're always getting it wrong. And it's just like whatever it is, it's. You have to let them do it.
- [54:28]
George Gordon
Yeah.
- [54:28]
Peter
And parents feel so overwhelmed that a lot of times they just do everything for their kid because the kid won't do it or they won't do it on time or they want. Whether it's cleaning their room, doing their laundry, handling this, putting away dishes, they don't stack the dishwasher. Right. So I just. It's easier if I do it. Anytime a parent starts saying it's just easier if I do it, you need to, I think, take a break and ask yourself. Yeah, but I probably shouldn't be doing it because this is something they need to learn.
- [54:58]
George Gordon
Yeah.
- [54:58]
Peter
Not for here in this house, but for here in their house.
- [55:01]
George Gordon
That's right.
- [55:02]
Peter
Later, years from now.
- [55:03]
Craig
Yep. There's another topic when it comes to parenting and that is social media devices. I read that book the Anxious Generation. I think every parent should read that book. We should probably have the author on this podcast because it's a fascinating conversation and he argues the biggest threat to kids isn't a potential kidnapper. It's the smartphone. And the stats definitely show that. That far more kids are impacted by that than some creep in a white van patrolling your neighborhood.
- [55:37]
Peter
Yeah, I know a lot more kids that are abducted by their cell phones.
- [55:41]
Craig
Yes.
- [55:42]
Peter
Then that's hijacked their life much more than anybody's. Hijacked their body and thrown them in a van.
- [55:46]
Craig
Yes. And that's got me on guard. I'm more vigilant about keeping her away from that. And as long as I can, I hope she doesn't get her first phone till she's 40, because I'm going to try to police that because there's just so much poison out there. And I'm really happy. And he suggested this in his book, which was a couple of years ago, and now schools are doing it. They're banning phones, and they find that after a week of protesting, the kids end up being happier and they pay more attention in class and they socialize with each other. So I'd love to do a whole podcast episode on that topic.
- [56:22]
George Gordon
Well, I think that's a great one. I remember early in the days of us doing a radio show when cell phones started coming about. And do you start getting them for your kids? It was not an automatic like my two oldest. I think they got theirs when they turned 16. And it was the, well, you're driving now, so we want to be in contact with you. And. But I think my youngest got it when he was 12. But I see.
- [56:46]
Peter
Yeah, the kids know the loophole now. It's the, what if there's a school shooting?
- [56:50]
George Gordon
Right. Oh, that's what you want to be in touch.
- [56:53]
Peter
Yeah, we have to give it to.
- [56:54]
Craig
Me because there's a school shooting, but.
- [56:57]
George Gordon
I see kids ignoring their parents at the table with a. And they have to be eight.
- [57:05]
Peter
You see the parents ignoring the kids.
- [57:06]
George Gordon
And then they're doing the same thing. It's like, golly, someone needs to put a phone down. But I don't know what that age is.
- [57:14]
Peter
And, you know, it's interesting that you say that in that book. They talk about how the kids were actually happier after the cell phone ban. It's something that they're required to grumble about, and it's an injustice and they hate it, and can you believe it? And then when it actually happens, they find that they're actually a little bit less anxious. Yeah, that's absolutely true for even adults. I can't tell you how many times it's happened where. What this concert. We got to put our phones in a Faraday bag before we go into this show. And. And then I go in there and I enjoy that concert 50 times more.
- [57:45]
Craig
Yes.
- [57:46]
Peter
Because I'm not every time wondering, okay, this is my favorite song. I just need to get a few minutes of this footage and.
- [57:51]
Craig
Yeah, right.
- [57:51]
Peter
And you're not having to worry about any of that. And you're actually in the moment of actually worrying about watching this artist with your own eyes rather than through the mediation of that stupid rectangle.
- [58:02]
George Gordon
Boy, that's so much better. Or being behind the person that's doing their own photo shoot right in front of you, making duck lips in front of the.
- [58:09]
Peter
And then they don't watch the next song and a half as they're down there getting the perfect caption for their Instagram as they're going to post the picture.
- [58:17]
Craig
Well, there's so much more to talk about the topic of parenting. I'm sure we'll do many podcasts in the future on this, especially as my child grows and I have more stories to tell. George, you were right all those years you told me there's nothing like it. It's the greatest thing in the world.
- [58:32]
George Gordon
I told you it'd be the best thing you ever did.
- [58:33]
Craig
Yes. And it is. And it's just such a joy. She's brought so much joy and color to our lives, and there are hard moments, but 95% of the time, she's great and loving and funny, and I love it way more than I thought I would. And you're right also in that you don't get it until you are in it.
- [58:54]
George Gordon
Right.
- [58:54]
Craig
And as. As a single adult or a grown man without a child, I would look at these other families and these other kids, and I appreciated them like I appreciated my niece and nephew, but I never really noticed other kids. But now that I've got a kid, I notice everything about everybody's kids.
- [59:18]
George Gordon
Sure.
- [59:19]
Craig
I notice all the little things they do, and I find all of it. You know, I take my daughter to a gymnastics class or a dance class or whatever, and the other kids are just as cute as she is to me because I'm noticing all the funny things they do. And before I had her, I never noticed that about kids. They were just smaller humans that were running around kind of annoying me. But now I love them all.
- [59:42]
George Gordon
You know, one of my best memories of being a father of young kids was when my two older ones were probably 5 and 9, something like that. We were the house where all the neighborhood kids would gather and play baseball, and I'd Go out and play with them almost every day. I was a kid again. It was great. And you're right, you learn the other kids on the blocks personalities.
- [60:07]
Peter
You were in the 4 slot, weren't you?
- [60:10]
George Gordon
Oh, yeah. Watch it sail over a rooftop.
- [60:13]
Peter
You never had to run the bases. You only had to really kind of jog.
- [60:17]
George Gordon
Right. And I guess was that being a helicopter parent? I don't know. It was fun. And I had the time in the afternoon because we were working morning radio. And while I missed out on some things, to me that was like, well, this is awesome. Father son time. And yeah, kids start showing up as Mr. Dunham gonna play.
- [60:37]
Peter
Yeah, yeah.
- [60:38]
George Gordon
Who's gonna hit the home? Very.
- [60:39]
Peter
Recruited every team in the neighborhood.
- [60:41]
George Gordon
Finally I could, I could excel at athletics. Playing against 8 year olds.
- [60:46]
Peter
You found your division.
- [60:48]
Craig
Did you see his bat drop? So much attitude.
- [60:51]
George Gordon
So much attitude.
- [60:54]
Craig
It's an incredible journey. I love it. Parenthood. I love talking about it. So yes, all the P1s of our radio show that have come up to me talking about, I never get tired of talking about it. I want to hear about your kids. I love talking about mine. And I get it, buddy. I get it. That's this week's edition of the Musers the podcast. Thanks to Peter Welpton, our producer. If you like what you hear, please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify. Subscribe to our podcast on those platforms. All of our content is free and we appreciate you spreading the word as well about the Musers the podcast.
- [61:31]
Peter
Question before we go, have you yet used used the Musers the podcast as a means of introducing the guys to somebody who's unfamiliar? We'd love to know how that went, good or bad. Send an email to themuserspodmail.com the Musers the podcast is a tired head production.
- [61:58]
Craig
Hey, I'm Chris Van Fleet, host of.
- [62:00]
Peter
The number one podcast Insight with Chris Van Fleet.
- [62:03]
Craig
On the show, I sit down with the biggest names in pro wrestling, sports, film and beyond. These are real long form conversations that go behind the scenes and beyond the headlines. With people like John Cena, the Undertaker, Cody Rhodes and more. We talk mindset, motivation and what it takes to succeed. This is Insight with Chris Family. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.