563: Email Marketing Hacks To Drive Engagement and Sales

Summary

Podcast Summary: Episode 563 – Email Marketing Hacks To Drive Engagement and Sales

Title: The My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast With Steve Chou
Host: Steve Chou
Guest: Toni Anderson
Release Date: November 12, 2024
Episode Title: Email Marketing Hacks To Drive Engagement and Sales

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Introduction

In Episode 563 of "The My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast," host Steve Chou teams up with email marketing expert Toni Anderson to delve deep into effective email marketing strategies tailored for e-commerce and content-based businesses. Building on their ongoing four-part series about content creation, this episode zeroes in on harnessing the power of email to boost engagement and drive sales.

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The Evolution of Email Marketing Tools

Steve Chou begins by reflecting on his early struggles with email marketing, highlighting missed revenue opportunities due to financial hesitations. He shares:

“ConvertKit… is now free for 10,000 subscribers. Had Kit existed back in the day, I definitely would have signed up but I lost out on at the time probably tens of thousands of dollars worth of revenue by not doing email.”
(00:34)

Toni Anderson echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the significance of ConvertKit's new pricing model:

“ConvertKit... reframed their pricing model and you get 10,000 subscribers for free and you actually get one automation in that as well.”
(03:02)

They discuss how previous limitations—such as limited subscriber counts and restricted automation capabilities—hindered the effectiveness of email marketing, making ConvertKit's current offering a game-changer for budding entrepreneurs.

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Understanding Email Automations

The hosts pivot to the concept of automations, defining it clearly for their audience:

Toni Anderson explains:

“An automation or a flow... is that when someone signs up, you can kick them into an automation, they're going to get a series of emails automatically... timed manner.”
(04:08)

Steve Chou shares his personal experience:

“My longest [automation] I think is 60 emails.”
(04:53)

They highlight the importance of setting up automated email sequences to nurture subscribers over extended periods, ensuring consistent engagement without ongoing manual effort.

---

Crafting Effective Lead Magnets

A critical component of successful email marketing is the creation of compelling lead magnets. Toni Anderson advises:

“You have to give people a reason to get on your email list outside of 'I'll email you once a week.' You need to create something called a lead magnet.”
(07:29)

Steve Chou concurs, emphasizing the necessity of relevance:

“It needs to be so relevant to the content that you talk about on your site.”
(09:24)

They discuss the pitfalls of having too many lead magnets, suggesting that businesses should start with one or two highly targeted offers that align closely with their primary content themes. For instance, Toni mentions focusing on frugal moms with relevant freebies, ensuring that subscribers are genuinely interested in her content.

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Enhancing Email Engagement with Multimedia

Incorporating video content into emails can significantly boost engagement. Toni Anderson recommends:

“Make a video when you're in the grocery store... immediately introduce people to your brand... you can do that so much better in a video than you can in the written word 99% of the time.”
(13:55)

Steve Chou adds value by promoting his own free resource:

“I put together a comprehensive six-day mini-course on how to get started in E-commerce... it's free and can be [e-mail]/free.”
(13:55)

They stress the importance of personal connection through video, making subscribers feel more engaged and connected to the brand.

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Leveraging Affiliate Marketing in Emails

The duo explores monetizing email lists through affiliate marketing, with a focus on best practices and potential pitfalls:

Toni Anderson cautions against using Amazon affiliate links directly in emails due to restrictions:

“You cannot use Amazon links in your email.”
(20:31)

However, she highlights alternative strategies:

“You can promote any other affiliate link in an email unless they've specifically forbidden it... The email just does so much better because I'm able to talk directly to my audience.”
(21:12)

They discuss practical examples, such as promoting affiliate courses or products relevant to the subscribers' interests, thereby maintaining trust and enhancing conversion rates.

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Building and Maintaining an Email List

Consistency is key to a thriving email list. Toni Anderson and Steve Chou emphasize the importance of regular communication:

Toni advises sending at least one personalized email weekly to remain top-of-mind:

“You want to send people at least an email once a week because if you don't send them stuff regularly, they forget about you.”
(35:05)

Steve concurs, cautioning against robotic, automated emails that lack personal touch:

“Literally what it does is it just takes the last blog post that you wrote with an excerpt and just sends it out. No greeting, nothing. It’s a robotic email.”
(37:26)

They advocate for thoughtfully crafted emails that offer value, foster relationships, and encourage engagement through actions like subscribing to YouTube channels or saving content on Pinterest.

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Technical Tips for Mobile Optimization

Given that most emails are read on mobile devices, they delve into technical aspects to enhance user experience:

Toni Anderson stresses:

“Make sure that whatever you want them to click on is very easy to click on and not going to be something where they like I cannot stand when I go to something and I can't click on it right away.”
(40:03)

Steve Chou adds the importance of clear call-to-action buttons:

“Use a big fat red button and things will be good.”
(41:23)

Ensuring that links and buttons are easily tappable on smaller screens can significantly reduce friction and improve click-through rates.

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Overcoming Common Challenges

The conversation also touches on common hurdles in email marketing, such as:

• Steve Chou discusses overcoming initial skepticism about investing in email marketing and the pivotal role his mastermind group played in convincing him to take the plunge.

• Toni Anderson shares her experience with experimenting too zealously with multiple lead magnets, ultimately advising to maintain focus and avoid spreading efforts too thin.

They highlight the necessity of balancing creativity with strategic focus to build a robust and engaged email list.

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Conclusion: Email Marketing as a Revenue Driver

Wrapping up, Steve Chou encapsulates the essence of effective email marketing:

“When done correctly, email marketing is literally like an ATM machine.”
(43:28)

Toni Anderson agrees, reinforcing the transformative potential of a well-executed email strategy. They encourage listeners to leverage the free resources available, such as ConvertKit’s revamped offerings and Steve’s own six-day mini-course, to kickstart or enhance their email marketing efforts.

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Key Takeaways

• Leverage Modern Tools: Utilize platforms like ConvertKit, which now offers robust features free for up to 10,000 subscribers, removing financial barriers to email marketing.

• Effective Lead Magnets: Create one or two highly targeted lead magnets that align closely with your content and audience interests to maximize conversions.

• Personalize and Engage: Incorporate multimedia elements like videos to foster a deeper connection with subscribers and enhance engagement rates.

• Monetize Smartly: Utilize affiliate marketing judiciously, avoiding restricted platforms like Amazon while exploring alternative affiliate opportunities that resonate with your audience.

• Consistency is Crucial: Maintain regular, value-driven communication with your email list to build trust, encourage loyalty, and sustain engagement.

• Optimize for Mobile: Ensure that all email content is mobile-friendly, with easily clickable links and clear call-to-action buttons to enhance user experience.

• Focus and Strategy: Avoid the trap of spreading efforts too thin with multiple lead magnets or automated emails. Focus on strategic, high-impact actions to grow and monetize your list effectively.

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Notable Quotes

• Steve Chou:
  “You live on One Automation probably for two years.” (04:02)

• Toni Anderson:
  “If you can just get one automation set up you don't need any more in your business.” (03:58)

• Steve Chou:
  “For those listening to this and you still don't have email, there's no excuse.” (41:45)

• Toni Anderson:
  “Think of it as sort of like your YouTube content you want to hook.” (32:22)

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Resources Mentioned

• Seller Summit 2025: Tickets available at sellersummit.com
• Steve Chou's Book: "Family First Entrepreneur" available at mywifequitherjob.com/book
• Free Six-Day Mini Course: Sign up at mywifequitherjob.com/free

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For more insights and actionable strategies on e-commerce and online business, visit mywifequitherjob.com and subscribe to "The My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast" with Steve Chou.

Transcript

[Steve Chou]

You're listening to the My Wife Quitter Job Podcast, the show where I cover all of the latest strategies and current events related to e commerce and online business. Today we're going to continue with our four part series on creating content to promote your business. We'll be covering everything from video and blogging to email marketing and podcasting. In this episode, we're resuming from where we left off to talk about email marketing. But before we begin, I wanted to let you know that tickets are now on sale for Seller Summit 2025 [e-mail] the Seller Summit is the conference that I hold every year that specifically targets e commerce entrepreneurs selling physical products online. Unlike other events that focus on inspirational stories and high level advice, mine is a curriculum based conference where you will leave with practical and actionable strategies specifically for an e commerce business. Every speaker I invite is deep in the trenches of their e commerce business, entrepreneurs who are importing large quantities of physical goods and not some high level guys who are overseeing their companies at 50,000ft. I personally hate large events, so the Sellers Summit is always small and intimate. Every year we cut off ticket sales at around 200 people, so tickets sell out fast and we've sold out every single year for the past eight years. If you are an e commerce entrepreneur making more than $250,000 or $1 million per year, we also offer an exclusive mastermind experience with other top sellers. The Seller's Summit is going to be held in Fort Lauderdale, Florida from May 6th to May 8th. Right now, this is the cheapest the tickets will ever be. And finally, if you haven't picked up my Wall Street Journal bestselling book the Family First Entrepreneur yet it's actually available on Amazon at 38% off right now. My book will teach you how to achieve financial freedom by starting a business that doesn't require you to work yourself to death. Plus, you can still get my free bonus workshop on how to sell print on demand and how to make passive income with blogging, YouTube and podcasting. When you grab the book [e-mail] book, go to mywifequitherjob.com Book, fill out the form and I'll send you the bonuses right away. Now onto the show. Welcome to the My Wife Quitterjob podcast. Today Tony and I are continuing with our content mini workshop and today we're going to be talking about Tony's specialty, which is email marketing.

[Toni Anderson]

I was going to say my favorite topic, so I'm excited. You just sit back and relax and enjoy the show. Should we?

[Steve Chou]

So what's, what's funny about email is I remember when I first got started I was too cheap to pay for email. But today convertkit or kid I should say is now free for 10,000 subscribers. So had Kit existed back in the day I definitely would have signed up but I lost out on at the time probably tens of thousands of dollars worth of revenue when I first started out by not doing email.

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah. So what's interesting and yeah, Kit just re reframed their pricing model I guess you could say, and you get 10,000 subscribers for free and you actually get one automation in that as well. I don't know if you knew that.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah, actually, yeah, yeah. Before mailchimp was the game in town, right?

[Toni Anderson]

Yes. And I think that was a big game changer for Kit because before they did have a free tier, I think it was up to a thousand subscribers. However you couldn't do any automation. So basically to get those subscribers you kind of need an automation. I mean not really, but I would say that's a fundamental. And so it was like, well it's free but not really if you want to do anything. And now it truly is free with the One Automation. And honestly I feel like if you can just get one automation set up you don't need any more in your business. I obviously run lots of automations but that is not, that's not essential for the, for a content based business at all.

[Steve Chou]

I mean I lived on One Automation probably for two years.

[Toni Anderson]

Yes, yes. Literally paid your bills.

[Steve Chou]

Yes.

[Toni Anderson]

Well, let's talk about automation since I don't want to assume that everybody.

[Steve Chou]

Well let's define it first.

[Toni Anderson]

Yes, yeah. So basically you know, you get a subscriber on your website. I think most people know what a subscriber is, but what's nice about something called an automation or a flow, and it depends on whatever email service you're using, is that when someone signs up and you can kick them into an automation, they're going to get a series of emails automatically, which means you write them. Once you create these, you know, basically email templates and then they're just sent out on in a timed manner. Right. So you can set it out to go out once a day, every other day, once a week. And these automations can be truly as long as you want them.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah, actually I'm thinking how long mine is. My longest one I think is 60 emails.

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah, when I, when I was doing E Commerce, I think my one one of them was 162 days or some obscene. It wasn't 162 emails, but it was like every couple of days people got an email.

[Steve Chou]

Oh, wow. Okay. So I usually dial it down to once a week towards the end.

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah. But, but anyway, so I think that's awesome that convert or kit now offers that for people because you can basically get started and get set up for free. And I think that's one of the reasons why people get hesitant about email marketing because it is a true cost. Right. We talk about, okay, you can buy your domain for 10 bucks on GoDaddy, you can set up a website for pretty inexpensive hosting, you know, couple dollars a month, basically. But then emails like, and now you're going to pay $122 a month for this email list that you don't know how to monetize. So people were like, no, I can't do that because I'm not making any money yet.

[Steve Chou]

That was exactly what my problem was. I need to be convinced. That's why I waited for so long. I had to have my mastermind group berate me into it.

[Toni Anderson]

I remember there's a lot of things in your life that you have to be berated. Webinars email.

[Steve Chou]

And I'm sure people listening can understand. Like if you're putting down money and you're not 100% sure it's gonna make you money and it's a significant amount for content of all things. Right. Like, when I first started with content, I didn't think it was really gonna make any money. Like, you're not sure, right?

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. So I. That's why I think this, this new tier from Kit is exciting because it does allow you guys to do that and doesn't force you on mailchimp, which, you know, we don't recommend or love.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah. So no excuses anymore, which is the great thing. So anyone listening to this should actually go sign up and start implementing the things that we're going to be talking about today.

[Toni Anderson]

Absolutely. So the first thing that I notice when I go to people's websites is, well, one, how do you get them on your list? And you know, I still have the sidebar signup on my site, so I'm not going to be dogging that because I still have it. It doesn't get any signups. I mean, very few. Right. So that's not the move. And while it probably used to be 15 years ago, you have to give people a reason to get on your email list outside of I'll email you once a Week. Like, that's not compelling for people. So you need to create something called a lead magnet or some reason to get people to actually give you their email.

[Steve Chou]

Actually, I want to. We have contrasting styles here. I just have one main lead magnet. Actually, I have two main lead magnets and I can't keep track of more than 2, to be honest with you. But you have a million of them.

[Toni Anderson]

So here's, here's why, because my site is not as targeted as yours. I talk about a variety of things. I talk about budgeting, I talk about recipes, I talk about home decor, I talk about parenting. And so, you know, certain lead magnets just aren't going to convert. Well, if you only want my recipe content, then you don't need my, you know, letter Alphabet printouts for preschoolers. Right. Like, that's. You're not gonna, you're not gonna get on my email list for that.

[Steve Chou]

But does that mean you have everyone segmented and you have to send out like 5x the number of emails every week?

[Toni Anderson]

So you know what? I actually used to do that. I used to send a week. Yeah. So this is what not to do. So I have like six main pillars on my site. And so I used to segment everybody by the pillar they were in. So if you came in through a grocery budgeting lead magnet, then you got food content every week. If you came in through a homeschool printable, you got homeschool content every week. So I was writing five to six emails every week. Now, granted, these emails are basically like regurgitation of your content. You're not like creating brand new content for that. But it's a lot of work. And so I have, I will say in the past like five years, I've only created like two lead magnets because I don't do that anymore. Everybody gets everything. You can unsubscribe if you don't want to read it.

[Steve Chou]

Okay. Yeah, I was about to say it's not, man. Like, it's not easily sustainable. I mean, you can do it. But yeah, like, I have problems with like one or two emails a week actually.

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah. So, But I. It's. Here's the hard part though is when you figure out a lead magnet that works, isn't this is what happened. I got lead magnet happy. I. I was like, ooh, this is a cool lead magnet idea. And I would literally create the lead magnet, whether it was like a printable or a worksheet or budgeting, whatever it was. And then I would like pin it on Pinterest. Right. Like I would create graphics for the content and then, you know, I would look in like 200 subscribers a week, 300 subscribers a week, and I was doing nothing. Right? Like literally nothing. So. And then these people like, were pretty. For the most part, these people stayed on the list and were high achieving email subscribers. Right? Like, they weren't duds, they weren't unsubscribing, things like that. So when you start to see that happen, it's hard not to be like, I'll create another one. Like, oh, I just created. No, I'm not even joking. This week, more Halloween printables. And I'm way too late in the game for Halloween. Just so you guys know, if you're listening to this now, don't do Halloween printables work on Thanksgiving or Christmas.

[Steve Chou]

Actually, it's not too late because we just created a printed line of Halloween and we sent it out last week and it actually did really well.

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah, so it's hard for like the lead met because it's like if, especially if Pinterest is like one of your main like drivers, which is my, one of my lane main drivers of email traffic, like it needed to be out like four weeks ago, you know, just to like get some, get some juice, it'll still do well. And I, and it's just an add on to what I already offer. So it was more like, hey, I'm expanding the line of printables. But yeah, it's hard because like when I see something work, then I get crazy about it and I want to do it over and over again. So don't do that. I would say, especially if you're just getting started and I know most people are still like, oh, I don't have one lead magnet. Get one lead magnet. And it really needs to be. And this is where I see people make their first mistake. It needs to be so relevant to the content that you talk about on your site. You know, it, it can't be something on the side, right? Like, so if you have a, like your lead magnet is a six day mini course in E commerce, what do you talk about all day long? E Commerce. What's your social talk about? E Commerce. What do you Talk about on YouTube? E commerce. Like, it's because these people are opting in you, you know, at this point you're paying for people. I'm paying for people on our lists. We don't want people that are opting in for something that then you don't talk about ever again. Right. So like I don't like I do recipes on my site, but I'm not like gluten free, dairy free. It's like I do all kinds of recipes. So I'm not going to have a gluten free lead magnet because if I had a lead magnet for a gluten free recipe, then who would I get on my list? A bunch of people that can't eat gluten. And half my recipes include gluten. Right. So you want to, with your lead magnet, make sure that it is super targeted to the people that you know are going to take the next step to make you money.

[Steve Chou]

Yep. And in my case that's my mini course. And in your case you have a whole bunch of digital products too, right? That you steer people.

[Toni Anderson]

I really just want moms on my list.

[Steve Chou]

That's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Toni Anderson]

My, my demographics really broad. Mostly frugal moms. So, you know, so. But that's when you're giving away something for free, you usually get the frugal people first anyway. So. Yeah, and this is the other thing, like when we started doing this a million years ago, like your lead magnet was all emails, right? You sent emails out to people and it was just written content and emails. You know, mine still is primarily printables, but now you can deliver video content in a lead magnet, which I think is for most people so much more effective than just something on print. I think if you can, especially that first video. And even, here's the thing, even if you're giving away snowflake printables for people's preschool or something like that, right? Make that first email include a link to a video. Right? You can't embed really a video in an email, but you can take a screenshot and put the link in so it makes it look like they can click on it and play the video and it'll open up in YouTube, make it unlisted if you don't want people to see it and just make some sort of video content because that will, one, it'll improve your email engagement, right. Because people love video content and emails. And then two, you're going to immediately introduce people to your brand, who you are, what you have to offer. And you can do that so much better in a video than you can in the written word 99% of the time.

[Steve Chou]

I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store. I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in E commerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be [e-mail] free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I'll send you the course right away. Once again, that's mywifequitterjob.com free. Now back to the show. I mean, I think this generation now doesn't read.

[Toni Anderson]

I don't, I don't think so. I don't.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah, because I just look at my kids, they'd rather watch a video. I'd rather read something personally because it's faster. But I almost think that video is almost required now, I guess depending on your demographic.

[Toni Anderson]

But I would say even if you think like, oh, you know, this isn't, you know, it's just a printable or it's just a, you know, grocery list. Make a video when you're in the grocery store, right? Just pull out your phone and be like, hey, it's Toni from the Happy Housewife. I'm so excited you decided to download my grocery budgeting printable. If you're like me and you shop with kids, blah, blah, you know, you get them a 30 second intro and that's. You still deliver the printable, right? You still give them the PDF. It's not like it's an. It's not like you're exchanging something but you just get that like immediately they can relate to you or they don't relate to you and they unsubscribe. Perfect. Get them off your list. Right? I always, I always love people that are all about like, oh, I've got 500,000 subscribers. I don't want to pay for 500,000 subscribers. Give me 10,000 subscribers that love to click on affiliate links. Right? I mean, yeah. So, you know, I think if people don't relate to you and that video can really make or break it good. Get rid of them, don't pay for them.

[Steve Chou]

And if you're in E commerce land, about three months ago, I changed my pop up again to this modified spin to Win that now converts at like 8%. Between 7 and 8%, I should say.

[Toni Anderson]

What's the modified spin to win?

[Steve Chou]

The modified Spin to Win. Actually, I don't want everyone to go and sign up for Bumblebee linens because I actually pay for those subs. And so I'm trying to think, but but basically it asks you first, hey, would you like to, would you like free stuff? And then you, you click and the wheel is kind of spinning, but not spinning, just kind of moving to catch the eye. And then you click yes, and then it spins and then you actually have to enter in your email to stop the wheel.

[Toni Anderson]

Oh, interesting. Okay.

[Steve Chou]

And so you enter the email and then it stops and every, every spot is a winner. And then it asks you for your phone number to actually redeem whatever prize that you had. Yeah.

[Toni Anderson]

Look at you getting the two steps.

[Steve Chou]

Actually, you know, the two step is a game changer. I'd never thought that it would be better, but it's more of a pain in the butt to implement.

[Toni Anderson]

But yeah, well, it's also, I mean, because they have to enter their phone number to get the discount. Like you're, I mean, it's about 50%.

[Steve Chou]

So I get the email and it's about a 50% to get the phone number. It depends on the size of the discount, obviously, that they're winning.

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah. And in E commerce, I would say your lead magnet's a little bit different. You know, if they're coming to your E commerce blog or your content site, you can give them informational content. Right. So I know for Bumblebee you did like a hanky tutorial. Folding tutorial. We used to give when I sold the essential oil jewelry, we used to give like essential oil blends for your jewelry so you could download like seasonal. So in the winter you should use these blends. In the summer use these so you can give if you. I know we have a friend of ours sells keto snacks. You could do like three keto recipes. You definitely don't want to miss. Like you can do informational content in your content site for your store. I think if people are landing on your store like direct, where there's products and you want them to grab their email, you need to have some sort of like purchase incentive. So for you, it's the spend to win wheel. It could be, you know, enter and you see this all the time. Enter your email, get 10% off. I would say try something like enter your email and get a free gift with purchase. Right. It's a better deal, right, for you. As far as you know you're not giving that discount right away. And other things for E commerce, like don't have the pop up appear right away. That always drives me nuts. Like, because there's sometimes where I'm like, I'm gonna buy it. I don't care if there's a discount like I need it. Right. And then you're just like now you're just gonna give me 20% off. Thanks. You know, make it on exit intent. Don't show it to people once they're already a purchaser. You know there's all these things you can do if you use Klaviyo. You can really narrow that stuff down in their. So just make sure you're following like a lot of best practices in E commerce when you're doing this.

[Steve Chou]

So this is just something random that I'm not sure all of you will be interested in. But Google nerfed exit intent on mobile. Yes. Probably like six months ago. So I had to write this little bit of code now where it detects the speed of your scroll up because you know when you're ready to go, you scroll up quickly and that's when it triggers the pop up now but.

[Toni Anderson]

Back in the day. So you can do it on a timer though.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah, you can do it on a timer, but that's not exit intent, right?

[Toni Anderson]

No it's not. But you can, you can sort, I want to say like you little bit mimic it like if someone's on there for 45 seconds.

[Steve Chou]

Well you're not supposed to do those pop ups now. The timer ones that really occupy more than a third of the page. Yeah. On mobile.

[Toni Anderson]

Oh yeah, yeah. On mobile.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah, yeah. So that's why the exit intent was so important on mobile. But like yes, I was wondering why my exit intent was busted. This is like probably six to eight months ago. It's because Chrome people were abusing the back button counting. I don't know exactly why. There were some spammers that were abusing the back, you know, how you hit back but they were preventing it from you being able to leave this site full of pop ups and whatnot. Anyway, let's talk about money because one of my hiccups early on with signing up for email today, there's no excuse. Back in the day you had to pay to play. Was convincing myself that I could make money with this. So I know with content and ecom e commerce the money pretty much comes right away, but with content no one.

[Toni Anderson]

Should argue you, you don't get to argue with us on E commerce. Like if you don't want to do email, you're dumb. So end of story. Let's talk about content.

[Steve Chou]

Let's talk about content. And the reason why I had a hard time justifying it for content was at the time I didn't have anything to sell. Yeah but that doesn't have to be the case anymore because you can just sell other people's products, which would be my number one thing. If you're just starting out with email.

[Toni Anderson]

Yes. So big caveat to this, you cannot use Amazon links in your email. Yep. So. Cause I just ran into this with actually rather large blogger who was using Amazon links and I was like, ah.

[Steve Chou]

Did they get banned?

[Toni Anderson]

Don't do this. No, I found it and I was like stop immediately. Cause I have a feeling they probably do a decent amount of Amazon affiliate revenue. But here's what I think is interesting. So you can use pretty much any other affiliate link in email unless they've specifically forbidden it. For the most part you can, which is nice because not everything should have to run through Amazon. And actually I don't know, Walmart's really pushing, I know their affiliate stuff lately. So I don't even, I don't even know if they have the same rules as Amazon because I don't promote Walmart. But definitely something worth looking into if you want to promote Amazon type products because Walmart's basically got the same type of platform. But what I think is nice is one, you can promote any other affiliate in an email, which means you can literally send an email to your list. And I do this all the time where it's like, hey, my friend, you know Kelly at Adore, your wardrobe has a free closet. You know, frustration to functional closet challenge. Right. You can sign up here. Well obviously that signup link is my affiliate link which then she's selling a course at the end of the challenge. Right. So I didn't have to create the clothing course. She created the clothing course. So I sign people directly from email. So it's one step, right? I'm not sending to people to my website first. I don't have to worry about people dropping off. And the click through rate's always higher on my email than people just landing on that post because I have a post on my site too. The email just does so much better, right. Because I'm able to talk directly to my. And sometimes I even make a video for it just depends. But that to me that's like the first no brainer, right Is sending people to affiliate. Whether it's courses, products, information. A lot of people offer a free trial, free version. Lots of people sign up for free and then it's their job to get them to, you know, commit. But then it's, you know, it's off your plate.

[Steve Chou]

You know who convinced me to do email and where I Made my first money was Ramit Sethi. Oh yes. He contacted me and he's like, hey, would you like to promote my Earn1k program? It's coming out in like six months. I was like, sure, you just want me to put out a blog post or something? He's like, no, just send something out to your list. Like, oh yeah. And then I had to like look up what, you know.

[Toni Anderson]

Yes. What's the list?

[Steve Chou]

So anyway, I, that's when I decided to sign up and then I, the list wasn't big at all, but I remember I sold like 13 copies of his class and I think he was charging a thousand at the time. And then I got half of that and all of a sudden, you know, that paid for years and years of my email marketing. I was like, okay, I'm in, I'm in all this. But yeah, once you have like, you don't need to have your own product today. I mainly push my course and I do push affiliate revenue here and there. But you know, if you're first starting out, you don't need your own products. Almost every single company has an affiliate program.

[Toni Anderson]

Yes. And so that to me is step one. The other thing you can do is like I like to direct link an email, but if it's an Amazon product then you can't. So what you can do to help your Amazon conversions is so recipes are really hard to monetize. In fact, I would probably, I would probably caution anybody into making a recipe blog at this point. It's just there's a lot of competition, it's hard to monetize. And the one way you do monetize is by like, hey, this is my favorite instapot. Hey, this is my favorite air fryer. This is my favorite, you know, whatever. Well, you know, you can, you can't put that in an email, but what you can do is write an email linking people to that post but really calling out the features of that product in the email. So while they can't, you know, click and buy directly from the email, by the time they're on the blog post, you've kind of already sold them on the newest air fryer. Right. Like so rather than having to do like a full on product review and a post if you don't want to do like, if it's a recipe post, right. And it's like, you know, air fryer zucchini fries. Actually this one's coming out on my site this week. So if you're like the recipe you want to talk about the zucchini fries. You don't want to talk about the brand of air fryer that you're using, but in the email, you can be like, hey, I'm sharing this recipe this week, and let me tell you, the air fryer I'm using is an absolute game changer. I used to use this air fryer, but I've switched to this. And let me tell you, they've never been so crispy. You know, you don't have to use any butter, whatever. Talk up the health benefits, whatever you want to do. But you can use email to, like, sell. And then the link is in the blog post, but the blog post isn't so salesy. It's that recipe. So when people search and are like, I'm so sick of hearing your sales pitch, right? People that are finding you from search or Pinterest or social, they're not irritated, right? Because they're just like, oh, there's a link for an air fryer, whatever. But you can sell it in the email.

[Steve Chou]

So you're not using the air fryer that I got you as a housewarming a long time ago anymore.

[Toni Anderson]

Oh. So. Hey, so you know what?

[Steve Chou]

What?

[Toni Anderson]

Arden is now using the air fryer you got me because their oven broke. And that air fryer is so amazing that I was like, you know, and we were. We were moving, so we didn't have a house. So I was like, you know what? Use my air fryer. This thing is an oven, an air fryer, a microwave. It, like, does everything right. So I gave her the air fryer. Well, they still haven't got their oven replaced. And so we. We got a kitchen. And I was like, we need an air fryer. So I just bought one on Amazon, and my whole family is like, can we give her the one we bought bought and, like, get ours back? Like, there's this, like, movement to get the air fryer. But I was like, aren't they the same? They're like, they're not the same. So, anyway, look out for my comparison post coming soon.

[Steve Chou]

I would love to believe you, but chances are you bought the air fryer that had review slots open in the video so that you could create an.

[Toni Anderson]

Influencer video so I could create influencer videos on it. I didn't, because it was. I was desperate. Desperate times. But. But no, seriously. And Brian's like, I really think we should ask for the air fryer back. And I was like, okay. It feels weird because I feel like they're the same, but apparently they're not.

[Steve Chou]

So really she had Fluencer fruit open and she noticed that the air Fryer had a 90 plus score.

[Toni Anderson]

Yes, 94 score. So I mean, everyone hates it, but it was, it's making a ton of affiliate money. So yeah, so that's, to me, a really great way to use affiliate in email. But I do think that everyone who has a content based business needs to have some product to sell. Whether it's an inexpensive product, like a mini course. Like a mini course that you charge for like a $9.99 or $19.99 course, or a larger course, like profitable online store, which is thousands of dollars. I think when you create content, you should be doing it with the goal that at some point you're going to monetize it with something that you can sell directly. Because I've told this story on the podcast before, but one of my first affiliates in email was a bread making course. And I had thought about creating a bread making course like 15 years ago and I was like, who's going to buy a bread making course? That's dumb. Didn't make it. Two years later, one of my blogging acquaintances came out with a bread making course And I sold 700 courses, you know, and got 700. Yeah, it was like insane. And I got like five bucks as opposed to $29, whatever the course was, right? And I was like, that was dumb. I'm not going to not create a bread course again if I ever, you know, wanted to do that.

[Steve Chou]

She didn't give you half.

[Toni Anderson]

It wasn't half. It was like, this is, this is. Yeah. I was like, now I'm like, Listen, I need 25% or more if I'm promoting your digital product. But yeah, it was, it was like a crazy amount. And I sent tons of. And here's the thing, I sent so many clicks, right? So like, even if people didn't convert, now she's got them on her email list. I mean, I don't dislike this person, right? Like it was, it's business, but just seeing that and going, okay, so if you're promoting affiliate products, right, or affiliate courses, services, and you notice that something's like performing really well, create your own version of it, create a parallel product because clearly that's your audience, that's what they want. And why not you keep all the money and. Or, you know, you keep most of the money and pay someone else an affiliate.

[Steve Chou]

You know, A student once emailed me a question saying, why should I create my own class and have to support it and do the work when I can get 50% by promoting someone else's. And I had to think for a moment there. And my reasoning for creating my own is you never know what's going to happen with that other product and your reputation is at stake. So if you end up referring out to some class that maybe initially was good but isn't good later on, then your reputation will take a hit and that'll prevent you from. It'll erode the trust that you have. So that was my number one impetus for creating my own class because there's a ton of e commerce classes out there.

[Toni Anderson]

Well, I also think too, yeah, I mean, obviously you, you're. When you endorse something, that's a big deal, right? Like, I don't like to endorse stuff and then, you know, have it go down the toilet later. But I can remember, I'm trying to think of what it was. A grocery product. It was a, you know, grocery SaaS product and all these bloggers promoted the heck out of it. And I mean, it wasn't like a game changer monetarily, but it was like several hundred dollars a month that I was making from promoting this. This product. And then they just went under. And I'm like, I don't know how they went under because I feel like every blogger in the world promoted them. Maybe their payouts were too high or I don't know. But all of a sudden, like, that revenue stream gone, right? Like, literally overnight. Like, then there's literally nothing you can do about it. It's not. It's not their fault. Like, they just went out of business. And I know, like, a lot of people, like, I've. And I've seen this happen with other companies too. Like, I remember back in the day, everyone was promoting like, Diapers.com and then Diapers.com got acquired and I think by Amazon and like, the sword sweet affiliate payout just was like, well, you were making. I mean, I knew people making thousands of dollars a month, right? And then zero. So, you know, I think promoting affiliates is absolutely great. And I think when you're just starting out, this is the way to go. Like, this is the way to start making money is promoting affiliates. But once you start establishing yourself and you have like a rhythm down for creating content, things like that, creating your own product to sell with email, like a product in an email list is like your retirement fund.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah, I have to agree with that because I remember one time I created this whole content series around this one affiliate because I was making about $5,000 a month off this one affiliate, and then one day they said, we don't need you anymore. Your affiliate program has been canceled. And I spent all this time on content just to promote this one product. So it's almost like in E commerce where you're selling someone else's product versus coming up with your own private label version. The private label under your own brand is always going to be more stable than you selling someone else's stuff.

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah. Here's the other thing to think about with email. So like sort of shifting a little bit is you started a YouTube channel five years ago. We always debate the date five years ago you started.

[Steve Chou]

It was 2020. It was during the pandemic.

[Toni Anderson]

Yes.

[Steve Chou]

So four years ago. Let's call it four years sale.

[Toni Anderson]

Everybody that I know that has started a YouTube channel that already had an email list has had a leg up in getting their YouTube channel off the ground. Just like everybody I know that like sold a physical product not on Amazon and launched on Amazon with an email list has a leg up. Like, if you can take that list of even 5,000 people, right, and drive them to your YouTube videos, right, as soon as they're published and ask people to subscribe. I mean, don't be shy, subscribe, follow, watch every video, watch them four times. Like, your list is your most loyal people. Those are the people that have like given you their email. They want to have a relationship with you online. That sounds weird, but you know what I mean. And so for you to say to 5,000 people, 10,000 people, 15,000 people, hey, did you know I'm on YouTube? I'd love for you to watch a video, I'd love for you to leave a comment. They will do that for you. And so that is a great way to help like build your other properties, drive traffic to your website, whatever it is. Like, one of the things that I started doing a while back was like whenever I send out a recipe, an email, I have a button at the bottom that says, don't have time to read it now, pin it for later. And it takes them directly to the pin, right. On Pinterest, all they have to do is save it. It's the second highest clicked link in an email for me every time. So the first highest click link is always like the picture of the recipe. The second one is always the pin it for later, which then gives some virality to a pin. Right? So you can do this with just about anything. I mean, I've never tried like sending people to TikTok or something like that, but you could probably do that too. I don't know if, I don't know if I would necessarily send people to TikTok, but I would definitely send people to my YouTube channel to get them to subscribe and watch videos.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah, definitely. I, I think for when I first launched my YouTube channel, I remember I did this contest where I gave away a bunch of stuff and that's how I got like my first. I can't remember how many subscribers I got out of that, but A thousand. Something like that.

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Pretty good jump start. Jump started it. And I got like over a thousand views on my first video. Just from the list.

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

And yeah, having the list was invaluable. It's for everything actually for the podcast. It's just a way for your loyal followers to find all the content that you're creating. Because there's nothing like creating content and having no one consume it.

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

And the email is almost like guaranteed consumption, so to speak.

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah, yeah. So I think knowing all of that, there are things that you need to do with your email that will help build that loyalty. So I think, you know, you get people on your list. We've talked about creating that lead magnet, we've talked about putting them in some sort of automation where you're introducing them to your brand, who you are, whatever you talk about, you're giving them more. You're just giving, right? You're giving, giving, giving. Drop an affiliate link in there, here and there. But it's more about the give. But then there's also, you know, I like to do like a weekly campaign send. So a campaign is a one off email where you're writing that and it's just being sent out like Tuesdays at 9am or whatever time you pick, which you can also test and see. You know, when are people most likely to open? I just did a test today where I was like, you know what I usually send in the afternoon? I send at 6am Amazing open rate right now. Amazing engagement. I was like, oh, apparently I've been sending at the wrong time for 10 years. So you want to send people at least an email once a week because if you don't send them stuff regularly, they forget about you. And then all of a sudden it shows up in their inbox and they're like, wait, did I subscribe for this? You know, did I sign up? Who is this person? And I feel like nowadays everyone's selling your email so you get a lot of that anyway. You, you want to be like top of mind for people. And I think you and I both do text based emails.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah, I only do text. I mean, I have an image in there occasionally, but it's not like a company.

[Toni Anderson]

We don't have headers and yeah, things like that. I would say that's something you test, you know, for your audience. I used to do a whole like I had a beautifully designed thing and I was like this. I don't think this is making a difference. I switched no one. I've never heard one thing. My rates have gone up a little bit. Nothing drastic, but like, I think that's a testing thing. But then you just want to send them something weekly where they get used to. And you can send more than that. You can test it, but it has to be a regular send. So you know, this can't be Send one, don't send for two months, Send one, don't send for a year. Because the other thing that happens is like people, people move or they quit their job or don't have that email address anymore. So then when you decide to send again, you have to actually like warm up your list all over. So I think that, yeah, I think that's really important to just regularly put that content out. You don't have to make new content. It can be regurgitated blog posts, it can be links to your YouTube videos, it can be random stuff that you want to talk about. Doesn't matter.

[Steve Chou]

I would say don't be too lazy about it. I had a student that emailed me saying, hey, it looks like I can just send my blog post feed as an automated email. Right. And literally what it does is it just takes the last blog post that you wrote with an excerpt and just sends it out. No greeting, nothing. Yeah, and that's fine. I mean, you don't have to do any work. It's all automated, but it's not building anything personal. It's like a robotic email. And pretty soon people are going to stop opening those once they get.

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah, I would say think of it as sort of like your YouTube content you want to hook. So like the one I sent out this morning, it's an old recipe. I think the recipe is like 10 or 11 years old. I've redone the photos and stuff, but it's basically the same recipe I've had for a long time. And I've sent this email out before. Like people have been emailed this recipe in the last five years because, you know, I figure they didn't open it. They're new on the. I mean, I have a bunch of new subscribers now. Cause it's the holidays, everyone's getting my printables. So I started the, you know, and it's a Crock Pot recipe, right? And I start the email with confession time. My kids hate Crockpot meals. So you're like, I'm sending you a Crock Pot recipe and I'm telling you my kids hate it, right? So immediately people are going the engagement in this email. And I rewrote the email just specifically to test this. And it's doing so much better than the email that went out a couple years ago with the exact same recipe, you know, so you want that even if it's like two sentences, right? And then you link to the blog post, add a picture, give them a reason to go over there. You're not going to believe the change I made in this. You're, you know, you. I can't believe this little hack I discovered that saves me 15% of my Amazon fees, whatever it is, right? Like, give them that hook that makes them want to click over. Because obviously the goal is to get them on your site, you know, and get them engaged with your content, get them on your YouTube channel, whatever it is.

[Steve Chou]

Actually, that's a good point, because there's no excuse now with AI.

[Toni Anderson]

Yes, I was going to say because.

[Steve Chou]

For a while I was lazy and I'm still kind of lazy. But, yeah, I forgot because I spent so much effort on my YouTube scripts, but I should spend equal amounts of effort on the. On the email as well. And it's not that much more time.

[Toni Anderson]

Which is still not that much effort.

[Steve Chou]

It's. You're right, it's not that much more effort now.

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah, now, you and I probably differ a little bit on this one, but I really only like asking people to do one thing in an email. I know you send out emails where like, here's my podcast, here's my YouTube, here's my blog post.

[Steve Chou]

If I wanna sell something, then it's the only objective. But if it's content, then it doesn't really matter. For me, at least that's.

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah. Even with content, I like only giving people one thing to do because I just. It just performs better. It's like, you know, when you go to the grocery store and there's 52 kinds of jelly and jam and preserves and marmalades, it's like, forget it. I'm not buying any. It's too many choices, right? I like to be like, this is your only choice. Today you're reading this recipe. The other thing that I see, people make mistakes about is font size and link size. Right. So chances are, go into your email service provider. The majority of people are probably reading this on mobile. Most people open email on their phone. That's. That's 2024. That's the reality. Most people have fat, gross fingers. Like, make sure that it's. Especially if you have multiple links in an email, don't make it hard to get the link right. Like you put your thumb on that screen and you could be hitting potentially three links. Right. Use H2 tags, make it 24 point font bold. Whatever it is, use a big. I don't mind using big buttons and emails. Right? Like make sure that like whatever you want them to click on is very easy to click on and not going to be something where they like I cannot stand when, if I go to something and I can't click on it right away and it takes me to something else, I almost always just give up. Right. And that's the same response you're going to get from people if it's too tiny or it's hard to access on a mobile phone.

[Steve Chou]

I 100% agree. I would say that if this email or this action that you want people to take is very important. Like all of our e commerce emails only have one thing. There's the. Yeah, there's three ways to go to the same place. Yes, it's very important. And you're right. Everyone's opening on mobile. All the email providers I can think of now allow you to put buttons in there.

[Toni Anderson]

Yes.

[Steve Chou]

And so just use a button, a big fat red button and things will be good. But I think you know the moral of the story here is if you're listening to this and you still don't have email, there's no excuse. Like, if you're in content, go sign up for kit. 10,000 free email subs and one free autoresponder sequence.

[Toni Anderson]

Yeah, it'll take you a hot minute to get to 10,000.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah, I mean your first 10,000 is the toughest. I would say two years, right? It'll probably last you two years on the free plan. Maybe, maybe less, depending on what your topic is.

[Toni Anderson]

Probably a year, I would say a year. If you get your lead magnet right, you still got a year. But here's the thing. 10,000. By the time you're at 10,000, you're paying for kit. You can afford to pay for your email list.

[Steve Chou]

Yes, that's correct. You can afford to pay for kit when you have like a thousand or less subs. I would say, because I remember when I promoted Ramit's course. I think I might have had like maybe a thousand.

[Toni Anderson]

So we. I read these all the time. I don't know anyone personally who's done this, but I've, I've read about a million case studies of people who are like, I had an email list of 250 people, I had an email list of 500 people and I launched something or I promoted something and they had like 10 to 15% conversion, right? And it's usually because those 250 people, those 500 people are like your number one loyal people. Like you're just getting started. They're signing up for you before your lead magnet looks good or you even have one. Right? Like they're signing up in the sidebar. So you would be surprised at how powerful a small list can be if it's the right people on the list.

[Steve Chou]

And the best part is that it is free. No excuses. Go sign up right now. Hope you enjoyed this episode. When done correctly, email marketing is literally like an ATM machine. For more information and resources, visit mywifequitherjob.com Episode 563. Tickets for the Sellers Summit 2025 are now on sale at sellers summit.com if you want to hang out in person in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton, then come to my event. Go to sellersummit. Com and if you're interested in starting your own ecommerce store, head over to mywifequitherjob.com and sign up for my free six day mini course. Just type in your email and I'll send the course right to your inbox.