← The My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast With Steve Chou
The My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast With Steve Chou
569: The #1 Way to Get More Shoppers Without Spending a Dime
00:45:12
In this episode, Toni and I dive into the magic of word-of-mouth marketing and why it’s such a game-changer for businesses. We’ll share tips on creating memorable experiences that get people talking and how to naturally encourage those conversations.
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- [00:00]
Steve Chou
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all of the latest strategies and current events related to E commerce and online business. Today, Tony and I are going to discuss perhaps the most important way to generate traffic and repeat customers for your business. And this is a strategy that is often severely underestimated and underutilized. But before we begin, I wanted to let you know that tickets are now on sale for Seller Summit 2025 over@sellersummit.com the Seller Summit is the conference that I hold every year that specifically targets e commerce entrepreneurs selling physical products online. Unlike other events that focus on inspirational stories and high level advice, mine is a curriculum based conference where you will leave with practical and actionable strategies specifically for an e commerce business. Every speaker I invite is deep in the trenches of their e commerce business. Entrepreneurs who are importing large quantities of physical goods and not some high level guys who are overseeing their companies at 50,000ft. I personally hate large events. So the Sellers Summit is always small and intimate. Every year we cut off ticket sales at around 200 people, so tickets sell out fast. And we've sold out every single year for the past eight years. If you are an e commerce entrepreneur making more than $250,000 or $1 million per year, we also offer an exclusive mastermind experience with other top sellers. The Seller Summit is going to be held in Fort Lauderdale, Florida from May 6th to May 8th. Right now, this is the cheapest the tickets will ever be. So head on over to sellers summit.com and grab your ticket. Now onto the show. Welcome to the My Wife Quitter Job podcast. Today we're going to cover one last topic on this marketing series that we've been doing and that is word of mouth marketing. And the reason why I want to talk about this is because I actually think the majority of Bumblebee linens business is word of mouth. Mainly because we get a lot of our business from event and wedding planners today, which make up a significant portion. And what I wanted to stress just to kind of start out with is that one of the questions I get from students who join the classes, do I have to do customer service? Right.
- [02:21]
Tony
In general or themselves?
- [02:23]
Steve Chou
Well, just in general.
- [02:25]
Tony
Interesting, right?
- [02:26]
Steve Chou
Because in the beginning they're like, hey, I'm just a one person thing. Like I can't answer phone calls and I, I don't, I don't want to interact with the customer at all. And that's why people are attracted to Amazon, right? So much. Right. Because Amazon does all that stuff. But I was just thinking about this other day, it was a YouTube video I was watching about actually talking to the customer.
- [02:49]
Tony
Mm.
- [02:50]
Steve Chou
And I was just thinking to myself, I get emails every single day, like a ton of emails every single day from my wife quit her job, and I try to respond to all of them. And every now and then, this happens at least once or twice a week. Someone emails back and goes, oh, my God, I can't believe you responded to my email.
- [03:11]
Tony
Yeah.
- [03:11]
Steve Chou
I can't believe there's actually a real person behind this.
- [03:14]
Tony
Yep.
- [03:14]
Steve Chou
And I was thinking to myself, man, the bar is really low, huh? Right?
- [03:20]
Tony
Yes, it is really low.
- [03:22]
Steve Chou
And you can make someone really happy just. Just by responding.
- [03:27]
Tony
Yeah. So I think to sort of, like, globalize this. If you think about, like, people's shopping behavior in general and how. What people like to do. I think people shop for two reasons, right? Consistency or customer experience. Right. So those are the two reasons why people shop at certain stores and do the certain things they do. So, like, if you think about Amazon, right. I mean, as a customer on Amazon, the customer experience is actually pretty good. If you need to return something, it's always really easy. If you have a problem with an item, like, for the most part, Amazon does a good job with customer service. But the reason why everyone likes Amazon is because you know exactly what you're going to get and when you're going to get it, right? You place your order within 24, sometimes five hours. It shows up on your. On your front porch, right? But then there's other people and there's other shopping experiences that people have where they want to go down to the boutique, Right? Like, there's a couple parts in my town that have these little boutique stores, and I often wonder how they stay in business, right? Because they. They sell, like, a very specific type of thing. You know, you can only go in there if you want beach wear or, you know, stuff like that. And they stay in business because it's. They've built the relationship with the customer. And I've heard people like, so in this one plaza, there's, like, stores and restaurants, and we always go to this one restaurant and I hear people talking about the stores in that it's not even a strip mall. It's like a little shopping village they love. They know the owner, they talk to them, right. The owner comes out and, you know, helps them find something. And so that customer experience, like, yes. Could they probably buy that exact same thing on Amazon for probably less? I would say most definitely. But do they love that experience, that customer service, that feeling like, they're part of that family. Absolutely. So they make that. So people either shop one way or the other, in my opinion. Like, they either want. They know what they're getting and that's what they do, or they want to feel like they're part of something else.
- [05:22]
Steve Chou
Yeah. I mean, this is similar to that interview I did with Jerry Kozak, who does the print on demand. He runs a printing company, and a lot of his printing business got destroyed by Temu and Shein. But the bread and butter of his business are all the private clients that he actually makes uniforms for and whatnot. And they continue to come back to him because he delivers. They have this relationship, even though they could probably find someone in China, I would guess, at a lot cheaper price.
- [05:49]
Tony
Yeah. But once you have that relationship, I think it's really hard to switch, even if. Even if maybe there's a better deal somewhere. So, perfect example of this is so, you know, we own a lot of motorcycles in our house, and my son hit a pothole in his motorcycle a month ago and bent his front wheel frame, and he rides a Honda motorcycle. We bought it at a Honda dealership, but instead of taking it to the Honda dealership to get it fixed, where we just. We knew the bike we wanted, we went in and we purchased it, we took it to the Ducati dealership to get it fixed. Because that's where our relationship is. Right. Those are where we know the guys. Those are the people that we talk to all the time. So even though, you know, was it probably a little more expensive to get it fixed at the Ducati dealership? I would guess. Yeah. But it wasn't worth not having the relationship. Right. Because we know if there's a problem, we know exactly that it will be handled. And I mean, there wasn't one, obviously, but, you know, you picked. We picked relationship over probably cost and maybe convenience.
- [06:50]
Steve Chou
Yeah. I mean, so the real question is, how do you establish these relationships? They kind of have to be done by voice.
- [06:58]
Tony
You can't automate it, Steve.
- [07:00]
Steve Chou
Yes, you can automate it. That is correct. And this is funny. I remember my wife, what she does is she actually sends little gifts to, like, our best customers at the end of the year. And I remember that first year she started doing that, I was like, ah, what's the point of this? They've purchased, like, 10 times already. Yeah, right. They're clearly a customer. Why we. I mean, what's this going to do? But clearly my wife, you know, knows about the softer side of things, and it's probably because of that reason that these customers have kept coming back for many, many years now. We've had customers buy from us, like, since the beginning.
- [07:39]
Tony
Yeah. So here's a, here's a tip for that because I love that idea and I think it's something that every business should be doing to their best for their best clients. Right. Is sending them. And if it, it doesn't have to be around the holidays. That's sort of the most common time to do it. But what I don't like is when, like, if you were to send and I don't know what you send, so I might be offending you guys right now to send them like a bumblebee linens coffee mug. Right. Like, to me, that costs money, Tony. No, you're like, they get the hankies that have been returned. No, but I see this with companies all the time. It's like, we think you're a value valued customer. Here's a pin with our logo on it, right? Which is like, no, this is this. If you're truly thanking someone, then you get them what they want. And obviously you don't know exactly what, you know, maybe your top 50 customers want or whatever the number is, but you want to get them something that's just nice and appreciative. It should not be, you know, something that's branded with your logo or, you know, something that could be used as an advertisement. Like, no one wants a bumblebee T shirt. Right? Maybe they do. Yeah, but. And so like, you know, maybe it's a Christmas ornament with something like commemorating of, you know, maybe like, I don't know, like, you know, I know every year for, in Chinese, there's like a, an animal right with the year. So maybe it's an ornament with that on it, or maybe it's a, you know, a yeti cup that's just, you know, like in a nice color. Right. Or with a pretty design. Or maybe it's something that's fun and really shows your appreciation versus, like, hey, please walk around with my bumblebee branded hat on so that everyone knows where you buy your handkerchiefs. So I think that's a big thing when you, if you decide to do this is you should make sure the gift is like something that you would actually want to receive as well.
- [09:32]
Steve Chou
If you want to go the extra mile, you can stalk this person on social media and find out what they're interested in. There was this talk that Gary Vee gave, and I thought this was ingenious. It's Very calculated, though. What he did is he went through his entire customer list, and he found the people that had really large social media presences.
- [09:51]
Tony
Oh, I remember this. Yeah.
- [09:52]
Steve Chou
And then, so one guy really liked Jay Cutler, so he went out and bought. He spent 400 bucks on an autographed framed Jay Cutler jersey.
- [10:01]
Tony
Yeah.
- [10:02]
Steve Chou
And sent it to that guy. And the guy ordered only 100 bucks worth of stuff. But he had a big Twitter following, I think it was.
- [10:08]
Tony
Yeah.
- [10:09]
Steve Chou
And then, you know, a couple weeks passed, and he's like, God, you know, he clearly already got it, but nothing happened. And then exactly one month later, he got this huge order of wine, and it was a referral from the guy that. The Jay Cutler jersey.
- [10:27]
Tony
Yeah. So there's a little Italian place a couple towns over from me that we stumbled upon one day, and. And it is like one of those. You feel like when you walk in, you're in Italy. The owner is originally from Italy, through Brazil, through, like, six other countries. But, you know, we went in there the first time we sat. We love to sit at the bar. So we sit at the bar, we're talking to the owner of the restaurant. You know, we're learning about him, learning about where he's live, learning about where he's from, the town, he's from, all this stuff. And, you know, as we're in there, we each have a glass of wine, and Brian orders a second glass of wine, and I was like, oh, I'm good. And then he takes the wine bottle and just, like, gives me, you know, like, maybe a half of a pour more. And he's like, well, we don't believe in drinking alone. Right. Like, so. And, you know, doesn't charge me for it. Whatever. Right. And you're just like, wow, okay, like, customer service right there, you know, like. And I didn't want another, like, you know, so it wasn't like he was forcing anything on me. It was just like, hey, here's a little more. So you're not sitting there with an empty glass while he has another glass. And then we had just got an appetizer, and there was this salt that they had used in this appetizer that was. I don't know what it was, but it was absolutely the best tasting salt. Like, that's weird to say, but. And so we asked him about the salt. We got into this whole story about the salt. So as we're leaving, he brings us out this tiny little jar of salt, right? That was from the appetizer. Have I not recommended that place to everybody? I've ever met in this town. Right. We go all the time. You know, it's like. And just from that first interaction, right. He could have just served us, given us the food, been friendly. Right. And it would have been like, yeah, it was a great experience. We'll probably go back at some point. But, like, we make it a point to drive to go to this place, because the experience. And every time we walk in, same thing. Walks up, shakes your hand, and it's like, does this cost him anything really? Like, other than a couple seconds of his time? No. But, like, I post about it on social media, not because I love it. Right. And I want other people. And he treats everybody that way. Right. Like, we're not. We're not special in that. Like, somehow he thinks, you know, we have a Twitter following where he's going to do this. Like, he treats all the customers this way. And I think, honestly, if you're not doing that in your business, whether it's digitally or in person, like, you're missing out on this huge opportunity to create, like, your most loyal customers for not a lot of money.
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Steve Chou
It's not just loyal customers. It's really a brand.
- [12:50]
Tony
Yeah.
- [12:50]
Steve Chou
And I've been thinking about this a lot because we're at a crossroads right now. I think Google's gonna be dead in five years. And it just so happens that Google is about 25% of my business right now for Bumblebee. And I've been, like, racking my brains, trying to figure things out. I don't know if you guys have been using Perplexity Perplexity as an AI search engine. That's really pretty good. I mean, it's got tiny market share. Have you used it?
- [13:19]
Tony
Very, very sparingly. But I'm about to jump on the bandwagon.
- [13:22]
Steve Chou
Yeah. So basically it gives you an AI answer and then it gives you links. But what they recently added was shopping. And it's not just shopping. It's literally a button where if you click on it, you instantly check out. Because I guess Perplexity has your information.
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Tony
Yeah.
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Steve Chou
So it's like one click checkout on Amazon, except it's through AI. And I was trying to figure out how this could possibly work, but I think they have this deal with Shop Pay. Well, I think almost every Shopify store can use Shop or uses Shop. Right?
- [13:55]
Tony
Yeah.
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Steve Chou
And so they already have the customer's information, you know, as part of that. So when they click on the button, it automatically places the order on that E commerce store.
- [14:05]
Tony
Okay.
- [14:06]
Steve Chou
Right. And so I was Just thinking, hey, is that the future? Like, how do I. How do I show up on AI Search? And I think more and more important now is getting your brand out there. And I guess all the SEO efforts that I've made over the years contribute to this. But I think where most of the signals are coming from, honestly, today, are social media. Do you have that brand presence? And so I. I was just thinking to myself, I've been dragging my feet on social media for so many years because it's something that you have to do every day. Right. But, like, I, you know, our friend Jim, he does it.
- [14:43]
Tony
Yeah, right.
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Steve Chou
It's really just a mindset thing.
- [14:46]
Tony
Yes. Yeah.
- [14:47]
Steve Chou
And it worked when I was on TikTok, and. And I, you know, did it every single day. And I grew to 120,000 subs. YouTube. I was very consistent once a week. And now, you know, that's been growing like gangbusters. It's really just this frame of mind. I mean, this is where the world's going. You think about word of mouth, right. How many TikToks have you watched? I know this happens in our household a lot. My wife will see a TikTok for this restaurant.
- [15:13]
Tony
Yep.
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Steve Chou
And she'll be like, hey, let's try that place.
- [15:15]
Tony
Yeah.
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Steve Chou
Because this. This person said that it was pretty good and showed us pictures of her enjoying the food.
- [15:22]
Tony
Mm.
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Steve Chou
That's where the world is going. That's where it is, I think today already.
- [15:26]
Tony
Yeah.
- [15:28]
Steve Chou
Anyway, that's my. That's my little soapbox thing. I'm trying to hit myself into. Into committing to this.
- [15:34]
Tony
You know, it's hard, right. Because especially. Okay, so I think let's just use Gary Vee. Right. He's actually a great example of someone who's constantly building that social currency. Right. He's making. He's always on social media. I always see TikToks of him. Reels, whatever the platform, he's there. Right. Sort of building that with. As himself. Right. As the brand. But that's kind of easy for him, Right. Because he's talking about stuff that, like, he's doing every day. Like, have you seen those ones of him where he's going to the garage sale and he's buying, like, the bucket of hot Hot Wheels cars and, you know, like, he. That's all. That's all stuff he does. It's in his business, like, for you and Bumblebee and for a lot of people. Right. Like, you're not a wedding planner. You're not really a hanky user, you.
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Steve Chou
Know, so like, do you cry on occasion?
- [16:24]
Tony
Yeah, only during the NBA playoffs. So once a year is not going to be enough for this marketing. But, like, for most people, being able to create content around their brand isn't just like their normal everyday life. Right. They're not just getting up. Like, I feel like Gary Vee, most of his content is just based on his everyday actions. Right. So it's pretty simple to have a camera follow you around. That's not pretty simple. But like, in the social media world, like, that's not as difficult as, you know, you sell linens, you're not a linen person. So then how do you get over the mental hurdle and figure out how to make that content to sort of bridge that gap? That's definitely not, I would say, in your wheelhouse.
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Steve Chou
Well, here's the thing. I think you can create content about anything and not even mention your business. People will find your link in bio. There's this. There's this girl from Vancouver, her strawberry milk mob. All she does is she shares dating advice. Okay. And stuff like that. Her videos aren't flashy. She literally just picks up her phone and does stuff. But she has 2.2 million followers and she also runs a swimwear brand which she never talks about.
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Tony
Okay.
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Steve Chou
But I'm sure that it gets tons and tons of sales because that's her link in the bio.
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Tony
Yes, but she's also talking about, like, dating. So she. I mean, at least she's talking to her target. You got to talk to your target demographic.
- [17:52]
Steve Chou
Correct. But the content, it doesn't have to be about the product.
- [17:55]
Tony
Yeah. You don't have to talk about crying all the time. Although I just. I just had a brilliant idea. I had a brilliant idea for your channel. Okay, so one of our favorite things you and I to watch is sad fans. Right? Fans that when their team loses and they're crying. Right. When the winning touchdown is scored, when the buzzer beater basket. So you could just do something with sad fans and hankies, and then you could still do what you love. Sad fans and mix and hankies. Looks like someone needs a hanky, I think.
- [18:28]
Steve Chou
Would that work on women, though? Yeah, that'd be guys, right?
- [18:31]
Tony
Maybe. I don't know. I've seen sad women fans.
- [18:33]
Steve Chou
It's like 90, 95% of our customers are women.
- [18:37]
Tony
Yes, they are.
- [18:38]
Steve Chou
And. And they're also. They skew older also.
- [18:40]
Tony
Yes.
- [18:41]
Steve Chou
In the demographic. Because hankies and. And towels and whatnot.
- [18:45]
Tony
Yes.
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Steve Chou
Anyway, the point I wanted to make is you can just write content about anything and then Just kind of insert your little call to action in there. It doesn't even have to have anything to do with it, but over time, you know, people remember that or be associated with it.
- [19:02]
Tony
So what are you gonna talk about for Bumblebee?
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Steve Chou
Okay, so I'm gonna do all the simple stuff, like the day to day.
- [19:10]
Tony
Mm.
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Steve Chou
Right. Even though I'm not there every day, I figured I'll just go.
- [19:14]
Tony
This is what I think happens every day. Jen's gonna love this.
- [19:21]
Steve Chou
Well, I can talk about the cool stuff. Like I'm involved in a lot of the cool stuff, but a lot of people do embroider funny things on the hankies. So I was thinking about just like setting up a camera in front of the embroidery machine.
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Tony
I think I told you to do this like five years ago.
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Steve Chou
Well, yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna set up the camera and have it run all day, but I'll just have it like if there's something funny that's being stitched, I'll just film it and then I'll comment on it.
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Tony
Yeah.
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Steve Chou
Or something like that. But the other thing I thought was interesting, this is a channel that I would watch is a lot of people are just kind of interested about what it's like to run the business.
- [19:55]
Tony
Mm.
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Steve Chou
Right. And I've actually been in there a lot lately because I'm the only one who knows how to use the printer right now. So I've been in there a lot lately because in preparation for the holiday season. So I. I can get. I. There's a lot of unexpected things that happen daily. It's kind of like your family, right. You have seven kids. Something. Something happens every day. Something happens every day at Bumblebee too.
- [20:22]
Tony
Yes.
- [20:23]
Steve Chou
And it'd just be interesting to document that stuff. The good and the bad.
- [20:26]
Tony
Yeah.
- [20:28]
Steve Chou
I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store, I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in E commerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell, all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be obtained@mywifequitterjob.com free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I'll send you the course right away. Once again, that's mywifequitterjob.com free. Now back to the show.
- [21:09]
Tony
I'm actually interested in this because I am. I'm not sure I'm 100% on board with just putting any content out there to build customers, but I. I'm curious to see if it works, right? Like, I feel like it's got to have some. Some sort of connection, right, with your potential audience. Yeah. Now, I do think. I do think how to run the business. So then there's also this other factor because it's social media. This is where it gets tricky because I actually love to watch the videos of, like, you know, things being bottled in a manufacturing facility or, you know, how people screen print things or like, all the. All the making of stuff. Like, I love those types of videos online. I also love the, like, watch me work type of, you know, behind the scenes packing orders, mainly probably because, you know, we're both in this business, so it's like, I'm always curious to see, like, how these things work, but I do think, like, some of these brands that have gotten really big doing these types of things, then you do spill over into your audience, right? Because you get to the point. So perfect example of this are, you know, we keep talking about AJ And Big justice, but I'm in bed the other night, and it's like probably 11, 11:30, and my two, you know, young adult boys are in the kitchen making some sort of snack, right? And I hear them, like, get food out of the microwave. And then I hear one of them go, oh, I'm bringing the boom, right? And they're not on social media a ton. They're on it, but, like, they're. They're not like, you know, they're not like, huge consumers of social media. And so I'm in bed and I yell from my bed, do you know AJ and Big justice, right? And they're. And they yell back, we love the Rizzler, right? And. But, like, I just think about, like, you know, they started out as the Costco guys, right? And like, talking about stuff in Costco, they have transcended, like, everybody knows about them, right? So I think you get to a point on social media, and this is what makes social media so cool, right? You get to the point where you've transcended all age demographics, all. All the traditional, like, buckets, right? Like, anybody who's on social media, I feel like, has now heard of them in some capacity, right? Because they've gone on tv, they've gone to sporting events. So I think social media can do that for your brand, right? It can get you to the point where you transcend all demographics and it doesn't matter what you started talking about. You have a big enough following to drive business. It's not easy to get there, man.
- [23:47]
Steve Chou
I was thinking about this in the context of AI search. Right?
- [23:51]
Tony
Yeah.
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Steve Chou
Like if you do a search for Bumblebee linens or whatever, like my name kind of comes up with it depending on how you phrase the thing. So if you have a big platform or social media presence, I think that's going to make it much more likely for you to actually show up. Yeah, and whatever. I mean AI search is still new, so however it's going to be. But it's going to be based on what's already out there.
- [24:15]
Tony
And how much do you think it matters? Because I was thinking about this today too. How much do you think it matters if like not only are you out there on social media, but maybe you go on a podcast to talk specifically about Bumblebee or you go as a guest on someone else's YouTube to talk about like specifically bump like your name in relation to Bumblebee.
- [24:35]
Steve Chou
I don't know the answer to that question with podcasts. Right.
- [24:38]
Tony
But you know what I'm saying, like. Cause I. So I'm building my own website like from just my personal website and I was trying to think of like all the things that I. Where I've spoken and podcasts I've been on and things like that. And I of course have not like kept a great record of this. So I just googled myself to see what came up. But like podcasts came up, speaking stuff came up. Like all of that came up in the. I think I googled my name with like e commerce and so I wonder how much that will play in. Right. If you're out there sort of like on all the multi channels. Right. Not just doing social media, but doing podcasts or YouTube, things like that.
- [25:13]
Steve Chou
Well, here's a presentation I'm going to give to profitable audience probably in a week or so. But I made one little change to my blog that links all my press mentions and everything and my traffic doubled in one day.
- [25:28]
Tony
That's crazy.
- [25:29]
Steve Chou
And it's still been on a steady climb because now Google knows that I'm associated with the content. It didn't make that correlation before.
- [25:36]
Tony
Yeah.
- [25:37]
Steve Chou
So I think it's very important, especially in this age of AI just spitting out spam, like people putting up sites and whatnot. Right now, like the emphasis is going to be on who the actual author is.
- [25:49]
Tony
Yeah.
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Steve Chou
And the more that you're out there, the More presence you'll have, I'm sure on AI search going forward as well.
- [25:56]
Tony
Yeah, that's, that was sort of my, my initial like hypothesis on this. Obviously we don't really have anything to, except for your traffic doubling. I mean, obviously.
- [26:04]
Steve Chou
That's a nice, it's funny it happened because I, I made the change and I'm like, things don't usually happen this fast. So I, I emailed Jeff. I was like, were there any Google updates or anything that happened? He's like, oh no, no, it's been stable for a while.
- [26:16]
Tony
Yeah.
- [26:16]
Steve Chou
And I was like, do you, I'll show you my change. Do you actually think that this is what did it? And he looked at and he was like, huh, Yeah, I, I, I think it, I, I think this is what did it. Because all of a sudden my knowledge panel on Google shows all these things.
- [26:30]
Tony
Yeah.
- [26:31]
Steve Chou
And it couldn't have been just a coincidence. Right.
- [26:34]
Tony
Like, yeah, it makes sense. Right. So this is good and bad news for people, I think overall, because I know in profitable audience, especially when we do webinars, right. Where we're talking to a lot of people who aren't in the course and maybe are thinking about starting to build content either around a brand they already have or, you know, starting a new brand. The question we always get asked is, can I do this anonymously? Right?
- [27:02]
Steve Chou
Yeah.
- [27:02]
Tony
And you know, that's one of the reasons why people love Amazon, because you can do things anonymously on basically anonymously on Amazon. Right. You can sell whatever you want under whatever brand name. No one will ever have to know you're associated with it really. I mean, people can dive deep and find you, but that's not, you know, you're not, it's not the same. But I really think it's funny, I feel like we're almost coming full circle because like when I was building my blog back in 2008, it was all about getting yourself out there. Right? Right. What events was I at? Where was, what magazine would I submit a paragraph to? What blogs were I commenting on? Who was I associating with? Right. Like in the blog space. And then it, you know, then I mean SEO had, was still taking over at that point. But like, you know, everyone, most people became very SEO focused. It became just like very much this process based, you know, content creation. You didn't have to go to anything, you didn't have to put yourself out there. And now it's sort of flipped back, back to where I think putting yourself out there is actually very helpful.
- [28:02]
Steve Chou
Here's the struggle. And we've seen this happen to members of our class. Like, we. We get them hyped about making short form, and then they post their first thing and it gets like, five views.
- [28:12]
Tony
Yeah.
- [28:12]
Steve Chou
Right.
- [28:13]
Tony
Yes.
- [28:14]
Steve Chou
And. And what I found, at least with social media on TikTok, is that, you know, you could post like, 20 things, but eventually you'll get one thing that gets, let's say, a few thousand views. And then that means, like, if all the rest of your videos are getting like a hundred or less, and all of a sudden you get like a 2000 view video or a 4000 view video, that means you're onto something there.
- [28:37]
Tony
Yeah.
- [28:38]
Steve Chou
And you should examine what you did in that video and just make more of it.
- [28:41]
Tony
Yeah.
- [28:42]
Steve Chou
And that's how you get better. You. You can't ex. I. I would go in expecting nothing in the beginning, and the same has been true with my YouTube channel. Right. Like, I pretty much know what's going to do well now. And whenever something doesn't do well, I kind of go in knowing that it's not going to do well because it's content that I actually want to create.
- [29:02]
Tony
Yes.
- [29:03]
Steve Chou
And not what I. Yeah, yeah. It's the struggle that I have, an internal struggle. So.
- [29:07]
Tony
Well, and I actually remember we talked about this a couple weeks ago in office hours when I was referencing our friend Andy, who was, you know, he's in the growth stage of his YouTube channel. I think he's over 30,000 subscribers right now. But he said one of his biggest learning takeaways from the past couple years was he's got to make content that the algorithm likes. Right.
- [29:27]
Steve Chou
Yes.
- [29:28]
Tony
And, you know, he. He's very into, like, charitable causes, but, you know, the more every time he makes a video on it, it flops. And I've watched. I've watched a lot of his stuff, and, you know, his charitable videos aren't better or worse than some of his videos about paying off your mortgage early. Right. They're the same. But, like, just, you know, the algorithm is telling him, like, people want more content about paying off your mortgage.
- [29:53]
Steve Chou
It's actually taken me probably three years to figure out how to phrase, like, teaching content into something that the masses will actually want.
- [30:02]
Tony
Yeah.
- [30:03]
Steve Chou
It is probably the hardest thing that I. And I still make mistakes, but it's like, the hardest thing to do. Yeah.
- [30:10]
Tony
Well, here's the thing, too, and I think this. I was actually. I was thinking, I was working on my site this morning, so I was having all sorts of, like, marketing thoughts because this is, you know, Basically a newer endeavor. And I was thinking, you know, I, when I'm on YouTube, I mean I watch like a lot of big creators, right? And I try to watch a lot of different things just because we teach YouTube. So I want to like feel like I understand what, you know, many verticals are doing, not just the ones that I actually want. I don't want to just watch NBA highlights on YouTube. But there are a lot of people out there creating really good content on YouTube that's teaching because this I'm thinking about for our introverts, right? People who are like, I know Logan Paul, which one's fighting Mike Tyson this weekend or soon? Is that Logan or Jake Paul? I don't know the difference between the two.
- [30:56]
Steve Chou
Yeah, I always get them mixed up too.
- [30:57]
Tony
Anyway, not everybody's a Paul brother, right? There are a lot of introverted person people. I think about our friend Rob Berger. We talk about him a lot, like just turning the camera on, making the financial videos. But there are a lot of people out there that I follow or that I watch their content that are doing like purely teaching videos. Like here's how you do this segmentation in Klaviyo or here's how you do something in Shopify or here's, you know, an idea for XYZ, right? Purely content. They have maybe 5,000 subscribers, right? So they're not huge channels, but yet you can tell from the views on the videos and the interaction on those videos that that that's driving their business, right? They're because they usually have a service based business or something on top of that. Maybe they sell a Shopify plugin, whatever, it doesn't really matter. I think you can build content and put yourself out there in a very niche capacity where like obviously we talk about wanting to get thousands and hundreds of thousands of views on pieces of content and I think that's obviously that's great and who doesn't love that? All of us. Right. But I think you can create something that's lucrative and that will support you as a full time job. If you find the right audience and you get into that niche and you're, you know, driving it to a very specific like product or service.
- [32:12]
Steve Chou
I mean there's tons of people on YouTube like that. There's this one guy I follow who teaches Facebook ads and he's got a tiny channel, it's like 4,000. But I bet he gets almost all of his clients through that channel. Yeah, it's niche. But the people who watch his videos. Yeah, yeah. So you can go Niche or go broad. Like, I was always taught, because I. I had a YouTube consultant for a while, and I'm a member of a bunch of mastermind groups. I was taught that going broad and funneling down will almost always yield you more customers than the niche method overall, in the grand scheme of things.
- [32:52]
Tony
Yeah.
- [32:53]
Steve Chou
Plus, you can make a living off of just the ads also. So I've kind of tried to adopt that philosophy, which I.
- [32:58]
Tony
Which I don't. I think. I don't think either one is. Is right or wrong. I think you can do both. But for people who are like, I don't want to fight Mike Tyson. Right. It is possible to do this in a very niche capacity and not feel like you're gonna be. I mean, we were joking right before we started recording that you have a video up right now on YouTube about the tariffs, and I was reading through some of the comments, and, you know, like, I know stuff pretty much rolls off your back, and, like, you don't get offended by a lot of things. But, you know, I think someone who maybe just put that video up because they were really into, like, tariffs, and they hadn't made a lot of YouTube videos, if they would be receiving some of the. Like, you know, there was a lot of, like, this is far too simplistic. You don't know what you're talking about. You know, like, stuff. Like, we're like, okay, whatever, dude. But I. You know, I think people can get their feelings hurt. Right. About stuff.
- [33:47]
Steve Chou
Sure.
- [33:48]
Tony
And so I think for people who are like, I just don't want to, like, be susceptible to that sort of thing. You don't have to be. You can do this in a niche capacity, or you can go broad or, like, as our friend Christina, you know, she's starting her pet social media for her pet product, and she had a video basically go viral, and she's like, wait, no, I don't want this. Right. So anyway, you know, I think. I think you. But you have to put yourself out there. That's the hard part for a lot of people, and I actually don't. Aside from, like, all the strategies that we talk about all the time of, like, how to. How to get over it. I really don't know how people can get over it other than just doing it. Right. Like, there's. There's not like, a magic potion to all of a sudden wanting to be on video or make content like that.
- [34:35]
Steve Chou
I mean, I'm thinking all about all my priorities right now for getting top of funnel business to Bumblebee and You know, once upon a time that was search. I think today it has to be social media.
- [34:47]
Tony
Yeah. Which is like, I can't believe you're.
- [34:48]
Steve Chou
Saying I don't want it to be that. I really want it to be that. But I, I mean, what else is there right now? Facebook ads.
- [34:56]
Tony
Yeah.
- [34:56]
Steve Chou
Google Ads will probably.
- [34:57]
Tony
So powerful. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like five years ago we would be laughing at ourselves for recording this podcast.
- [35:05]
Steve Chou
And you know, I talk about blogging and it's still probably, it still probably has like, you know, three, four years left. But I, I mean, the writing's on the wall.
- [35:15]
Tony
Yeah.
- [35:16]
Steve Chou
I think for the traditional way that Google is doing search and ads.
- [35:20]
Tony
Yeah.
- [35:21]
Steve Chou
And especially like the underhanded things that they're doing too. Which is the topic of one of my YouTube videos too. Yeah.
- [35:28]
Tony
That should do well.
- [35:30]
Steve Chou
So, dark side of one of the, you know how I've like kind of hated and avoided social media. And, and I'm still avoiding it. I'm fighting it.
- [35:38]
Tony
Yeah.
- [35:39]
Steve Chou
But I, I'm just trying to think like, how are you going to get more business?
- [35:43]
Tony
Yeah. I mean, I, I do think that just the, the old fashioned word of mouth, like obviously social media is like very powerful for word of mouth. Right. Just the stuff that you were talking about. And you know, let's try this restaurant. Let's do this. I mean, I've gone to cities before because I saw them on social media. Right. Like, oh yeah. Like I've gone to places in Europe because I was like, we gotta go to this. The place looks cool. Like, like, let's stop. You know, So I, I think that like the amount of power in that is crazy. Right. It's, it's at a level that I don't think like our 2008 brains could have comprehended, but I also think the old fashioned, like once you get a customer, so, you know, you've worked really hard to get the customer, whether it's from social media, an ad, Google search, whatever it is. Like you want to make sure that they then become. You want your customers to be creating the social media content about you.
- [36:37]
Steve Chou
Right.
- [36:38]
Tony
Which is probably a whole nother podcast on like customer experience. But I think that like that's the next step in this. Right. Like, you create the experience and then they create an experience for someone else with your products.
- [36:52]
Steve Chou
You know, I've been thinking about this a lot lately, actually. I was thinking about as part of the checkout process, asking for someone's Instagram handle and then I don't know how intrusive I'M almost positive Jen's gonna be absolutely against this, probably. But, you know, tagging them in some way, thanking them or whatever, or like, hey, your. Your hankies turned out great, or something like that.
- [37:13]
Tony
Yeah.
- [37:14]
Steve Chou
Because back to the analogy that we started with was like, whenever I reply to an email, people are like, oh, my God, thank you so much for replying.
- [37:22]
Tony
Yes.
- [37:22]
Steve Chou
I feel like people are starved for attention and comments on their social media platforms. Like, I don't get that many comments on my posts for Instagram because that's not my thing. But when I do get one, I appreciate it.
- [37:34]
Tony
Yeah.
- [37:35]
Steve Chou
And so I think people will appreciate the attention.
- [37:38]
Tony
I think people will also appreciate the positive attention. Right, right. Because so much of social media can be negative. And so to just see positive interaction, like, with them involved in it, I think is very powerful and leaves a really good impression about the brand.
- [37:56]
Steve Chou
Or don't even tag the person. Like, once you have their social media handle, just go on their account and make a comment on something.
- [38:01]
Tony
Yeah, yeah. It's a lot of work.
- [38:05]
Steve Chou
It is a lot of work. But, like, you can start out doing it, but once you have the SOPs, you can have someone do it.
- [38:11]
Tony
Correct? Yes. That's. There's definitely parts of this that can be outsourced.
- [38:14]
Steve Chou
And it's not like you're writing a novel. Right. You're just making a comment like, oh, cool. You know, your children are so cute.
- [38:20]
Tony
Yeah, I want to eat them. No, but, like, I remember. So I used to rent all my clothes from Rent the Runway. We talked about that a lot. But I remember, like, when I would post an outfit that I, like, really liked. Right. That I was like, maybe at a conference and. Or whatever, and I had a dress on that I had rented. I would always post and tag them and I would love it when they reshared it to their stories. Right. Not because I wanted, like, I didn't want to gain followers. Like, I was doing it because I genuinely thought the outfit was cute. Right. And. But I remember, like, just the feeling that I would get of, like, them reposting it. It felt good, right? It just felt good inside for them to be like, hey, we appreciate you. Like, we're sharing this too. And obviously it's. It's brand building for them for sure. But I don't know, there's just something about it, even for, like, us who, like, probably are very cynical about social media in general. Like, you know, I know why they're reposting this. I'm not dumb. But it still felt good. And so for the regular customer who doesn't live in social media, he doesn't do this as a business. Uh, I think the impact that that has is, you know, really powerful. The other thing that I think is really powerful and, you know, probably a whole nother thing is like a handwritten note in an order, right? Yeah, Just like, I know, like, yes.
- [39:40]
Steve Chou
Has these handwriting machines. You literally put in a pen and writes it in your handwriting.
- [39:45]
Tony
Yeah. I mean, I. I just think. And I think that works too, right. But I think that. That all those things are really impactful. In fact, I just got a new phone this weekend, which I'm not, like, as you. And I know I'm not, like, a huge technology person, but, like, I needed a phone, right? So I reluctantly got a new phone and I forgot that the Apple experience is all about the Apple experience. So I, you know, went online, picked my phone out, and then I had the choice of having it delivered or I could have it picked up. I could pick it up at the Apple Store like, that day. So I was like, well, I might as well just go get it. I don't want to wait till Tuesday, whatever. Because it was coming up on the weekend. I was like, that way, if there's any problems when I try to, you know, transfer my phone over, which of course there will be, I have the weekend where I'm not, like, missing important, you know, stuff. So I go to the Apple Store. Have you been to an Apple Store lately?
- [40:38]
Steve Chou
I have, actually.
- [40:39]
Tony
Okay. I don't ever, you know, I never go out. So, like, I was like, what is this mall thing and a parking lot and all this stuff, right? So I walk into the Apple Store and it is. I mean, the mall is actually decently busy because I think the holidays are coming up. But, like, the Apple Store is packed.
- [40:54]
Steve Chou
Always.
- [40:55]
Tony
Yeah, always. And I've never not been in an Apple Store this packed. So I walk in and it's packed. And I was like, oh. Like, I'm immediately irritated that I didn't have this shipped to my house, right? But then I quickly realized that the Apple Store staffs, like, chick fil A, right? So for every person in the store, there is an Apple employee, basically, right? Every customer. Because they've. And they've got their, like, red shirts on, I think. And so I just walk up to the nearest red shirt, and I'm like, hi. You know, I have an order pickup, and the girl's like, is this a repair or a new purchase? You know, in her friendly Apple voice. And I was like, new purchase. And so she points me to the guy next to her who's also standing there, right? Like. Cause there's. There's far more employees than they need in the store. And he whips out his little scanner thing and scans my barcode and then walks me to the back of the store where we wait excitedly for the new purchase, right? So I'm standing there, and you know me, I'm like, I just want to get the phone and get out of this mall. Like, I'm literally having anxiety. And he's like, are you just so excited about this new phone? And. But I, like, as the whole thing, like, as a marketer, I'm like, I know what you're doing, you know? And I was like, kind of like, I'm really like, no, dude, my other phone is broken. Like, I just need a phone, you know? And. And I was like, yeah. And he's like, I hope you know about the amazing camera features on the iPhone 16. And of course, I'm like, of course I don't know about the amazing camera features. I just got the phone that I like the color of, you know, and so he whips out, you know, the same phone that I bought. It's not mine. And he's, like, showing me as we're waiting, like, he's like. And then there's this. And then, so immediately, right, like, he's warming me up to the product, like, in. In his mind, getting me very, very excited about all these new camera features that I'm going to be getting. And then, you know, within three minutes, a guy from the back appears with the white box. With the white bag that they open up, put the box in the bag in front of me, which I'm thinking, I'm like, I'll just take the box, dude. Like, I don't care. But once again, like, as a customer experience, like, 10 out of 10. And then, of course, when you open up an Apple product, like, their boxes open slowly on purpose. There's all these. You know, it's. Everything about that product is designed for the customer experience, right? And you know, when you peel off the, like, everything about it is all, like, it's an aesthetic. And as I was, like, going through that whole thing, I'm like, you know, this is why Apple can sell less superior products for more money and have, like, the most crazy loyal following in the world, right? Like, they're up. They're at the Chick Fil a level of, like, loyalty. And it's like, your products aren't even that great. All the time. Right. Like, but yet you've created this whole experience that everyone's bought into and it works. And then iPhone users shame other people into using iPhones and like, you know, there's whole subculture. Right. And so when you can get to that level as a business, I think you've done something right with that marketing. Right. That word of mouth. It's like people aren't buying Apple phones because they have good commercials. They do. But like they're buying them because they've been shamed in the group text for three years and now they're like, they don't want to be the green bubble. So you know, it's, it's just fat. It's fascinating. But I mean if the big companies know it works, then the little companies need to start doing it too.
- [44:10]
Steve Chou
Yeah. So if you, if you're going into this thinking to yourself, hey, I don't want to talk to anyone ever do any service or I don't want to show my face. I, I think, I think you're gonna have to.
- [44:22]
Tony
Yeah.
- [44:23]
Steve Chou
Going forward. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Word of mouth is still one of the biggest drivers of my business, especially when it comes to wedding and event planners. For more information and resources go to My wife quit her job.com episode 569 once again. Tickets to the Seller Summit 2025 are now on sale over at sellers summit.com if you want to hang out in person in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton, then come to my event. Go to sellers summit.com and if you're interested in starting your own e commerce store, head on over to my wife quithherjob.com and sign up for my free 6 day mini course. Just type in your email and I'll send the course right away via email.