574: A Quick TikTok Ban Update And The State Of Social Media

Summary

Podcast Summary: The My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast With Steve Chou Episode 574: A Quick TikTok Ban Update And The State Of Social Media Release Date: January 29, 2025

In Episode 574 of The My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast, host Steve Chou and co-host Tony delve into the recent developments surrounding the TikTok ban and its broader implications for social media platforms, creators, and e-commerce businesses. This comprehensive discussion navigates through personal experiences, industry impacts, and strategic insights for entrepreneurs navigating the evolving digital landscape.

---

1. The TikTok Ban: Immediate Reactions and Personal Impact

Steve Chou opens the discussion by recounting the sudden TikTok ban, sharing his initial shock and subsequent relief:

[01:54] Steve Chou: "Nothing happened in our household at all. So I actually was kind of happy when it happened. I was like, okay, great. Now people cannot waste as much time anymore."

Tony echoes similar sentiments, highlighting the mixed feelings elicited by the ban. While it curbed his own time-wasting habits, it posed significant challenges for friends and businesses reliant on TikTok for sales:

[02:17] Tony: "I have friends who make a substantial amount of money selling physical products on TikTok through TikTok Shop. For them, I was in full panic, right. Because it isn't just about lost ad revenue; they're also losing a crucial sales channel."

The hosts discuss the transient nature of the ban, noting TikTok's swift return after the initial prohibition, which left many users uncertain about the platform's stability.

---

2. Family Dynamics and TikTok Addiction

Anecdotes about family reactions underscore TikTok's pervasive influence. Steve shares his experience with his children’s reliance on the app:

[05:58] Tony: "My daughter was going through withdrawal. She listed all the things she uses TikTok for, essentially making it her primary search engine."

This led to a humorous yet telling moment where Steve attempted to offer alternatives like Instagram Reels, only to be met with resistance:

[09:07] Tony: "My daughter was in complete withdrawal, listing everything she uses TikTok for. It’s like her search engine."

The conversation highlights the generational shift in how younger users access information and entertainment, emphasizing TikTok's integral role in their daily lives.

---

3. The E-commerce Conundrum: TikTok Shop's Collapse

The ban's ramifications extend deeply into the e-commerce sector. Tony elaborates on the precarious position of businesses dependent on TikTok Shop:

[03:00] Tony: "If you are on TikTok Shop, you required a significant inventory commitment. Now, you've lost a vital sales channel, leaving you with unsold inventory and diminished revenue streams."

Steve emphasizes the difficulty in transitioning away from TikTok, noting that duplicating the platform's reach on alternatives like YouTube Shorts has proven challenging:

[14:06] Steve Chou: "YouTube Shorts can reach thousands, but it's not the same addictive engagement TikTok offers."

The hosts stress the financial and operational hurdles businesses face when a primary platform like TikTok becomes inaccessible, urging entrepreneurs to diversify their sales channels to mitigate such risks.

---

4. Navigating Alternative Platforms: Instagram Reels and YouTube Shorts

With TikTok's uncertain future, Steve and Tony explore the viability of alternative platforms. Tony discusses the limitations of Instagram Reels, particularly regarding content visibility based on video length:

[17:30] Tony: "Reels initially only supported up to 60 seconds, limiting their reach. Even after extending to three minutes, content over 60 seconds doesn't appear in the main feed, severely restricting visibility."

Steve reflects on his own experiences with YouTube Shorts, noting a disparity in user engagement:

[14:18] Steve Chou: "My YouTube Shorts get a fraction of TikTok's views, with most hovering around a few thousand, occasionally hitting over 100k."

The discussion underscores the unique algorithms and user behaviors of each platform, highlighting that success on one doesn't guarantee similar outcomes on others.

---

5. Short-Form vs. Long-Form Content: Strategic Implications for Businesses

A pivotal segment contrasts short-form content (TikTok-like videos) with long-form content (YouTube videos) in the context of business strategy. Tony likens short-form videos to traditional display advertising, focusing on brand awareness rather than direct transactions:

[36:00] Tony: "Short-form video is about exposure—getting your brand in front of people. It's not designed for immediate transactions."

Conversely, Steve advocates for the value of long-form content, which can drive significant revenue through ad monetization and deeper audience engagement:

[33:53] Steve Chou: "Long-form content, like YouTube videos, allows for substantial ad revenue, potentially funding comprehensive marketing strategies."

The hosts agree that while short-form content is beneficial for visibility, long-form content offers more substantial opportunities for building customer relationships and driving sales.

---

6. Innovations in Live Selling: AI and Automation in China

Exploring international trends, the duo examines China's adoption of AI-driven live selling. Tony shares insights from colleagues engaged in the Chinese market, where AI avatars maintain 24-hour live selling streams:

[39:51] Tony: "They're using AI to host live selling sessions around the clock, creating an illusion of constant human interaction."

Steve expresses fascination with this technology, pondering its potential applications and implications:

[40:08] Steve Chou: "Maybe we should find someone to talk about that in Seller Summit. Someone who broadcasts live 24 hours a day."

This segment highlights the cutting-edge advancements in live selling, suggesting that AI could revolutionize how businesses interact with consumers in the future.

---

7. Practical Strategies for E-commerce Entrepreneurs

Closing the episode, Steve and Tony offer actionable advice for e-commerce entrepreneurs navigating the tumultuous social media landscape:

• Diversify Content Platforms: Relying solely on one platform like TikTok can be risky. Entrepreneurs should establish a presence across multiple platforms to safeguard against sudden changes.

• Invest in Long-Form Content: Building a YouTube channel can complement short-form efforts, providing a stable revenue stream through ads and fostering deeper customer engagement.

• Leverage AI Tools: Utilizing AI-driven content planning tools, such as advanced models of ChatGPT, can help generate comprehensive content strategies tailored to various platforms.

• Prepare for Platform Shifts: Ensure all content, especially short-form clips, are backed up on cloud storage solutions to prevent loss during platform outages or bans.

• Embrace Live Selling Innovations: Explore emerging technologies like AI avatars for live selling to stay ahead in the competitive e-commerce space.

---

Notable Quotes

• Steve Chou:

  "[01:54] Nothing happened in our household at all. So I actually was kind of happy when it happened. I was like, okay, great. Now people cannot waste as much time anymore."

• Tony:

  "[02:17] If you are on TikTok Shop, you required a significant inventory commitment. Now, you've lost a vital sales channel, leaving you with unsold inventory and diminished revenue streams."

• Steve Chou:

  "[33:53] Long-form content, like YouTube videos, allows for substantial ad revenue, potentially funding comprehensive marketing strategies."

• Tony:

  "[39:51] They're using AI to host live selling sessions around the clock, creating an illusion of constant human interaction."

---

Conclusion

Episode 574 provides a thorough examination of the TikTok ban's ripple effects across social media and e-commerce landscapes. Steve Chou and Tony offer valuable insights into adapting business strategies amidst platform uncertainties, emphasizing the importance of diversification, innovative content approaches, and embracing emerging technologies. For entrepreneurs looking to navigate these challenges, the episode serves as a crucial guide to sustaining and growing their online businesses in an ever-evolving digital world.

Transcript

[Steve Chou]

Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all of the latest strategies and current events related to e commerce and online business. Today, Tony and I are talking about the TikTok ban and what's really going on with social media. From all the drama to what it means for creators and regular users like us, we're breaking it all down. We'll chat about what's popping off, what's fading away and where things might be headed. But before we begin, I wanted to let you know that tickets are now on sale For Seller Summit 2025 over at sellers summit.com the Seller Summit is the conference that I hold every year that specifically targets e commerce entrepreneurs selling physical products online. Unlike other events that focus on inspirational stories and high level advice, mine is a curriculum based conference where you will leave with practical and actionable strategies specifically for an e commerce business. Every speaker I invite is deep in the trenches of their e commerce business. Entrepreneurs who are importing large quantities of physical goods and not some high level guys who are overseeing their companies at 50,000ft. I personally hate large events. So the Seller's summit is always small and intimate. Every year we cut off ticket sales at around 200 people. So tickets sell out fast and we've sold out every single year for the past eight years. If you are an e commerce entrepreneur making more than $250,000 or $1 million per year, we also offer an exclusive mastermind experience with other top sellers. The Seller Summit is going to be held in Fort Lauderdale, Florida from May 6th to May 8th. Right now, this is the cheapest the tickets will ever be. So head on over to sellersummit.com and grab your ticket. Now onto the show. Welcome back to the My Wife Quote, a job podcast. Today we are going to talk about all things social media, the TikTok band, RedNote, among other social media platforms.

[Tony]

Oh, what a weekend.

[Steve Chou]

You know what was funny is when I first opened my TikTok app, I think it was on Saturday. I can't remember exactly what day it was, but when it was banned I was like, oh my God, I can't believe this really happened. There goes all my plans, you know, for the year for Bumblebee Linens. And then the next day it came back and I was like, huh, okay, what the heck is going on here?

[Tony]

Yeah, so the one thing I want to make sure we talk about is like, is it a good idea to invest in TikTok? Not financially, time. Time wise. Right. Like, I think that's the big looming question. But before we get into that. I want to talk about the fact that like my 15 year old, it was like, I don't know what this is like, but I would assume if you were a meth addict and you lost your supply, like the these stages of grief that we went through on Sunday morning, I wish I would have filmed because I would be Mr. Beast Level Finances posting that video. Like it was the best thing that happened to me in probably six months.

[Steve Chou]

Tell me. Because my kids aren't allowed on TikTok.

[Tony]

That's smart.

[Steve Chou]

Nothing happened in our household at all.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

So I actually was kind of happy when it happened. I was like, okay, great. Now people cannot waste as much time anymore.

[Tony]

So I had a very mixed feelings because, like, I waste time on TikTok. 100% waste time on TikTok, usually not during the day, but like, you know, before I go to bed. It's like I could probably get an extra 30 minutes of sleep every night if I wasn't scrolling TikTok. I know it's a time waster and I don't use it for business. So it's like I don't have any excuse to be on there. And my kids are like TikTok addicts, right? So, and they, and some of them have. And some of them have had big accounts, have lost big accounts. Like, we've been through the whole TikTok roller coaster over the past, you know, four or five years. So there was a part of me that was like, oh, ban it, get rid of this. Like, give me my children back. Right. But then we have friends, several of them, who make a substantial amount of money selling physical products on TikTok through TikTok shop. And so for them I'm in full panic, right? Because it isn't just about like, let's take your YouTube, for example. If YouTube went away, you would have the immediate impact of the lost revenue from ads, but you would have a much further impact in that you would be losing your email subscribers, right? Because you get a lot of email subscriber subscribers through YouTube, which a lot of content creators do. And so not only would you feel that initial impact of the, you know, thousands of dollars a month in ad revenue, you would feel a long term impact of how do I get new customers for my affiliate marketing, for my course, for the other things that I promote. And that's what I felt about TikTok. Because if you are on TikTok Shop and you are selling products, TikTok requires you to have a certain level of inventory. At least they used to I'm not sure what their requirements are right now. So it's not like TikTok goes away and you're Charlie D'Amelio and so you lose your revenue from views. You now have a warehouse with probably 2 to 3 million dollars of inventory that you've already paid for. And now you've lost that channel for sales. Now you probably have some other channels. Some people don't, but, I mean, people we know do. But it's. You can't just. I can't tell you, hey, I know on Bumblebee, you are making a million dollars a year on, you know, your D2C store and a million dollars a year on TikTok. So just make 2 million on the store. It's like. Well, it's not that simple. So for those people, I was in like, full on panic. Right. Because the financial repercussions are gigantic.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah. Not only that, actually can. Are we going to be talking about whether it's worth the digi. TikTok right now?

[Tony]

Yes. We'll talk about my daughter in just a second because it was quite hilarious.

[Steve Chou]

I wanted to hear your daughter, but I just want to say that TikTok's not fully back.

[Tony]

Correct.

[Steve Chou]

Just to be clear. And this is why I'm still hesitant, because you cannot download it from the app store.

[Tony]

Did you hear this? That iPhones with the TikTok app on it are selling for like 10 grand.

[Steve Chou]

Are you serious?

[Tony]

So apparently, yes. I heard this on the radio. This like, I. So my son rides a motorcycle. He normally rides to college on the motorcycle. The weather here has been terrible. So I drove him to school today. So we were just listening to, like the radio as we were going to school, and they were talking about an iPhone sold for over $10,000 because it had the TikTok app on it. Because someone had deleted the TikTok app and then you couldn't get it back. Which I'm like, who deletes an app?

[Steve Chou]

Like, well, I do that. Actually, I.

[Tony]

That would not be the first thing I'd think about doing.

[Steve Chou]

Sure.

[Tony]

But yeah, it's like. That didn't take you long. 12 hours. Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah. So it's not back. That means no app updates.

[Tony]

Correct.

[Steve Chou]

I'm pretty sure that means limited advertising.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

If you're allowed to advertise. And I know live just kind of came back.

[Tony]

Yes. I had live last night. I saw it last night.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

But I mean, it's. It's kind of in its crippled state.

[Tony]

Yes.

[Steve Chou]

In a state of limbo for the next 90 days.

[Tony]

But I. I will just want to say I have a beautiful iPhone 15. It's only two months old. It has your price. It has a Tick Tock app. I just had a car die. So for $10,000, this phone can be yours. All yours. With the beautiful TikTok tick tock app on it, just for you.

[Steve Chou]

My Android phone for five grand with Tick Tock.

[Tony]

Yeah. Be part of the green bubble. So anyway, it goes off Saturday night. My daughter was actually at a friend's house. I pick her up on Sunday morning. And I was like, just. I could not wait to get her in the car. Because I was like, I know this is gonna be bad because she is like, live or die, Tick Tock. Right? So we get in the car. She's clearly irritated. So the agitation phase has begun, right? She's jonesing because it's now been, you know, six hours since she had access. So then we get home, and usually one morning on the weekends, I make, like, a big breakfast. So we're all there. Like, you know, a lot of kids are home, which normally it's, you know, usually one or two. So we're all sitting around the kitchen, and she is like, now she's reached, like, phase two of withdrawal, whatever that is. And she's, like, visibly angry, right? And I was. I made the critical error, the mom error of saying, you can watch videos another way, which I guess it's like someone saying to a meth addict, there's always crack. Like, I don't know, right? So she looks at me and she's like, what are you. You expect me to watch reels? And, like, her older brothers, who, like, they grew up without Tick Tock, right? So they're. And. And I gave everybo this stare of. Do not laugh at her, like, because we don't know what we're dealing with. We have a caged animal here, right? And so she's like, reals. And I'm thinking, I actually like reels. That shows my age. And then before I could get anything out, and she's like. And don't even tell me to go on YouTube. Like.

[Steve Chou]

You know what's funny about what you just said? You use the word Joneses. Like, I don't know if you do strands, which is one of these games on the New York Times.

[Tony]

Oh, yes, I do strands. Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

One of the last ones was outdated slang, and I was like, hey, I still use those words because I was thinking Joneses. Who uses that anymore?

[Tony]

So, yeah, it was. And she was. I mean, she was In a complete. Like, I was like. I was like, wow. I was like, this is like. I felt like we were at the zoo watching the. The native animal species, you know, and there's like a. And this is what happens to a 15 year old.

[Steve Chou]

Six hours after two years. I mean, it's. It's crazy. And everyone started fleeing to RedNote.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

This communist China app.

[Tony]

What?

[Steve Chou]

I don't. Nothing makes. Like, I couldn't figure out what world I'm living in. Because if they ban this app.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Let's say Red Note becomes popular. They're just gonna ban that one too.

[Tony]

Yeah. And in my boys, who are very pragmatic and pretty. Pretty tech savvy, one of them goes, well, you know, I mean, you could actually download Tick Tock with a vp. You know, he's going into all. And I was like, shut up. Like, I don't want her to know that there's a chance she can get this because she's already talking about Red Note. She's like, but you have to know another language. Like, it's just like the. It was. I was like, I wish I had a hidden camera just to. But then part of me was like, I'm so glad this is gone. Right. Because, like, clearly you have a problem. Like, and, you know, it's hard too, because now her grades are good. So I was like, it's not even. Like, I could be like, well, your grades aren't good, so Tick Tock's not coming back any on your phone anyway. But it's like, well, actually you're doing really well. So, like, I can't really, like, I don't have a lot to pick at.

[Steve Chou]

I mean, my whole feed was people waving goodbye and complaining.

[Tony]

And did you hear the people coming clean?

[Steve Chou]

Coming clean about what? No.

[Tony]

Like, oh, I'm. I'm not, you know, I'm a fitness influencer, but I'm actually on Ozempic and like, I don't drink this garbage. Yeah. A couple people. I didn't. I only saw one like that on my feed, but I did see a couple, like, you know, whatever. Repost kind of things of like, you know. Yeah. Anyway, the whole thing's crazy to me. Like, the, the whole. I was. I was kind of excited that it was gone, personally upset for my friends. But, yeah, I wasn't thrilled when it came back on.

[Steve Chou]

I. I feel like Trump just put them back on so people could watch the inauguration on it.

[Tony]

Right.

[Steve Chou]

I think that. I think that was like the whole impetus for all of this.

[Tony]

Yeah. And here's the, the thing that's so interesting and I've followed it, not religiously, but it sounds like if someone buys it, you might not, they might not be buying the algorithm.

[Steve Chou]

I don't know what's all, what's going to happen with that. That's all up in the air. I don't want to speculate there, but yeah, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[Tony]

Right. Because then I read, I read an article on like, like Forbes or, you know, a legitimate weapon. Wasn't a thing. I didn't see this on TikTok. Uh, but basically that, you know, the valuation of the app, which would be the users, the E commerce, that kind of thing is like an X value, but the algorithm is actually where all the value is in TikTok, which is what I guess the US doesn't want sold is the algorithm. Like, they don't, they don't want the use of the algorithm, which is. But then part of me is like, I feel like Mark Zuckerberg is behind this. You know, like the whole thing just seems so chaotic.

[Steve Chou]

Conspiracy theories now on Tick Tock itself, of course.

[Tony]

Yeah. So. So the big question is, after all of this, should you be spending any time on Tick Tock professionally? Right. As a business.

[Steve Chou]

See, that's the, that's the thing. If it was fully back, meaning you could still download update and everything.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

I'd probably be in Bumblebee filming right now, but right now it's just still up in the air. Yeah, I don't know what's going to happen. So, like, I personally am not going to invest a ton of time into it.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

What are your thoughts?

[Tony]

I feel like it's too risky to. I mean, I definitely wouldn't be like working on creating a TikTok shop or anything like that. Like, if I was in E commerce, uh, if I was a content creator and I was already creating content, would I continue to promote through the affiliate, you know, the creator program? Yeah, I would probably still do all that, but this would not be the day that I would start TikTok. Plus, you can't download it anyway if you haven't had it. The only thing that I would say is this is where it gets tricky. I mean, you can make shorts and you can make reels and those are all the same. It's the same stuff as TikTok. Right. Like, obviously we say that, like you kind of create differently for the different platforms, but most creators don't. They put whatever they put on TikTok on reels and on shorts. They're not changing it up. So I would say if you're already creating that content, then there's no reason why you can't put it on TikTok. But I would not have that be my focus at all.

[Steve Chou]

So I've been doing YouTube shorts now, I want to say for a year and a half, two years, and these are half hearted YouTube shorts. I should say yes, you're cheating because I'm just taking clips out of my long form.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

With the hopes that it will get them to watch the long form video if they find the short. And what I found is that, you know, it still gets like a, a tiny amount of views, you know, thousand, two thousand views, which, which is nothing in TikTok land. But I do have a couple that have been tens of thousands of views or even over 100k. And I do see YouTube shorts that are not in the business realm get millions of views.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

So I mean it, it can happen. Like the reach can be, you know, like TikTok. It's just that I just don't feel like people are as addicted to, to YouTube shorts as they are. And I don't really know that many people that use reels. Actually.

[Tony]

Clearly nobody. According to my daughter, like that was a, that was a prison sentence.

[Steve Chou]

I actually gave it a try that night when TikTok was banned. When you haven't used reels and it's not trained, all I got were a bunch of like scantily clad women actually on reels.

[Tony]

I never see that on.

[Steve Chou]

You don't know, it's just like, it's all like just glamour shots of people.

[Tony]

Like, oh no, my reels. So Brian doesn't have Tik Tok, so he sends me reels. And so my reels algorithm is pretty accurate. But it's funny because the same people I see on reels, I see on TikTok. Like there's not a huge. Yeah. Difference anyway. But yeah, so I, I would say like if you're creating that short form content, continue to post it on TikTok. But here's the other thing and I actually, our friend Jim Wang, who kind of, you know, blew up on TikTok last year, you know, started it and like you, you want to make sure you have all that content if this happens again. Because a lot of big creators on TikTok film and edit. Like my kids don't do everything in TikTok. Like they film, they edit, they don't ever, they, I don't think they have the content on their phones right. It's because their phones don't have enough memory. So I would say if you are doing this, make sure that all your short form is in Dropbox Drive. What does Kevin call it? The cloud, the bubble attachment server, whatever. He has his fancy name for it, the nas. You mean the nas.

[Steve Chou]

Did you know that capco was down too?

[Tony]

Okay, that was my next thing.

[Steve Chou]

Oh, okay.

[Tony]

I did not realize that that was a TikTok product.

[Steve Chou]

Oh, yeah. Or ByteDance, I should say.

[Tony]

Yeah, yeah. Because we had a student in the class say, is Cap Cut down? And I was able to open it and see everything when she asked that. But then I read later that no, that was down too. But to me it's like that's just a video editing software. Like that shouldn't be. To me, capcut. I mean, like, obviously they can do whatever they want. We don't make the rules on this. But to me, I was surprised to see Cap Cut go away because that's not actually a platform, it's just editing, which stinks because I love.

[Steve Chou]

Well, no, we use Cap Cut now because it's the easiest software to use to insert captions and edit the actual short form things so well.

[Tony]

And then I realized because I'm in the middle of like hiring this video editor that all of my applications, like, must know Cap Cut. I'm like, well, that might be. Or they'll still be able to use it. They don't live here, actually.

[Steve Chou]

I'm curious. I haven't talked to Jim recently and he's been like solely focusing on the TikTok platform for the past year. What are his plans?

[Tony]

So he had all of his content already. So he had downloaded everything. He has actually been posting the same content on reels for several months, which I did not know. He's also been putting it on YouTube. So he's still doing everything on TikTok. I don't think that's changed for him. Um, but he gave me a very interesting fact. You might know this. I had no idea. So, you know that reels, you know, first they were only 59 seconds or whatever and then they expanded to 90 seconds. And so he was putting all this content on reels and it was getting zero reach. And you know, it's hard because like when you have success on one platform, it doesn't necessarily transfer to another platform. So I think he chalked it up to, well, maybe, you know, it's just not. Not working on Instagram. Well, he. So Reels just introduced the three minute short. Right. Which TikTok's had for a while. YouTube. What was that? Maybe two or three months ago YouTube went to the three minutes. Well, when Instagram announced that it came to light or maybe Jim just heard about it. I hadn't heard about it. That you're not any reel over 60 seconds doesn't get shown in the feed. It only gets shown to your followers.

[Steve Chou]

Oh, I did not know that.

[Tony]

Yeah, I didn't know that either. And he's like. So that explains why because he doesn't have a lot of followers on Instagram and you're. And most of his content was a little bit over a minute because you know, tick tock, you have had that option for a long time. So he couldn't really. He just figured like maybe I'm not a fit for Instagram. Well, come to find out he literally got zero, not zero, but like you know, a real on or a tick tock that he would make on a topic would get 5,000 views. Right. Like a Costco one. That's a good example because that should be popular on reels. Right?

[Steve Chou]

Right.

[Tony]

And then he'd put that literally exact same content onto Instagram and let's say it was 72 seconds and that same video that got 5,000 views on TikTok would get a hundred views on Instagram or 50. Right. So it's because it's showing up in my feed. It's gonna show up in your feed, but it's not showing up. You know, typically when you. When I go on reels on Instagram, when I just go to the reel feed, I don't follow any of those people. Right. It's just content. Well, Instagram wasn't showing anything over 60 seconds in the feed. It was only shown to your followers. So you know, that explains why. Probably explains why a lot of people weren't getting traction on Instagram.

[Steve Chou]

I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store. I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in E commerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be [e-mail] free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I'll send you the course right away. Once again, that's mywifequitterjob.com. free. Now back to the show. You know, for reals. Occasionally I get one that gets like, a couple thousand, and then I'm happy with that.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

But I'm pretty sure I've alienated all of my friends who follow me on Instagram now because that's the only thing I post. And they're not following me for that. They're following me for, you know, family photos and just what's going on in my life. Right.

[Tony]

Yeah. And I think Instagram's hard. Like, Instagram is not a place where. And this is something interesting that my daughter was saying when she was in her, you know, meth withdrawal is. She was like, how am I gonna know how to do anything? And I was like, what do you mean, know how to do any? Like, I was just like, are you not a functioning human without Tick Tock? And then she started listing off everything that she gets on Tick. Like, she's like, that's where she finds all her recipes. That's where she finds, like, in, like, for her. And I was like, well, you can find recipes other places. She's like, where? Like, it's just like. Like, because you think about the time period she's grown up in, like, her whole time having a phone, Tick Tock's been available, Right? So she never. Yeah, so she never had to Google a recipe. Right. She never lived, like, where you and I did when we're like, how do you grill a piece of chicken? Like, you're on Google 15 years ago. And then she's like, a little too young for Pinterest, right? Like, the only thing she uses Pinterest for is nails. Like, how do I want my nails done? But even TikTok is. Competes with that, right? So, like, she started listing off all these things that she uses TikTok for. She uses it as a search engine. Like, that is her search engine. And, you know, how am I going to know how to clean something? How am I going to know? And of course, Brian's like, half that crap is wrong anyway. You'll kill yourself trying to do this. You know, it's kind of like you're just letting random people tell you how to do stuff. And I was like, I've had some of those TikTok recipes.

[Steve Chou]

That's like YouTube also, right?

[Tony]

Exactly. I'm like, it's no different. Like, somehow we think that Google, I mean, it used to be, like, 10 years ago, if something appeared number one in Google search, it was pretty authoritative. Right now it's like a Reddit thread, right? And I'm like, I don't know. This loon tick is so. Yeah, I mean, I think that Instagram, because of the content Jim posts, which is like personal finance, budgeting type content. No one's going to Instagram for that. People are going to Instagram for travel. If you were a fashion blogger, if you're a travel person, if you're. I mean, my entire Instagram reels feed is. I. Last night I was on Instagram and I probably saw 25 videos and 18 of them were bathroom tile installation.

[Steve Chou]

Our feeds are so different. You know what's funny is I feel like Instagram is what TikTok was like three or four years ago. Like, I'm getting dances.

[Tony]

Oh, I don't get any dances.

[Steve Chou]

Maybe that's. Maybe that's just because I never use it.

[Tony]

Yeah, my entire.

[Steve Chou]

Women use it doing dances.

[Tony]

No, my entire Instagram feed is either comedy stuff that, like, my kids will send me, or it's all home renovations. Like, here's how you correctly get, you know, a good caulk line on your baseboard, like, pretty much. But last night, literally, out of the 25 videos, 18 of them were bad because it became a joke. I kept. Because I kept showing Brian. I was like, oh, look, we could do the tile this way. He's like, stop showing me. Like, I don't want any more ideas for the bathroom. But yeah, so I think for Jim, like, the personal finance content is just not going to be something on Instagram that ever, like, really takes off. Same with your stuff. I don't think it's ever going to be something that really takes off. But Bumblebee, different story.

[Steve Chou]

It's true, it's true. And you know, I'm going to still go ahead and film that, but I was just hoping it would have been TikTok.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Because TikTok was still like the best way to get reach for practically any topic.

[Tony]

I mean, I would still put stuff on TikTok. That's the thing. Like, I wouldn't stop posting.

[Steve Chou]

But yeah, I'm gonna auto post to all platforms actually.

[Tony]

Of course you are. Of course you are.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah, I'm just. Well, I'm just curious to see what's gonna happen though.

[Tony]

I do think, though, like, in all of this, it's definitely showing me that each platform definitely has a preference. Right. Like, Instagram people are on there for a specific reason. But TikTok has sort of like Pinterest is a different thing. YouTube's a different one. But I feel like TikTok sort of got all of it and made it work together because the algorithm's so good. So, like, my TikTok, once again, is very. So different from yours. Right. We never see the same thing, but I think you can succeed talking about just about anything on TikTok, where I don't think that's the case on the other platforms.

[Steve Chou]

I still think if you're gonna put your energy towards something, it should be YouTube long form.

[Tony]

Yes. Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

It's just so hard to do because I was. I was planning out Bumblebee and I was like, should I be doing long form? And the problem with Bumblebee is, is I'm gonna be the person doing them.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Right. Like, my wife doesn't really want to. Has no interest in doing that stuff. So.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Like, how am I going to Talk for. For 8 minutes about something that I don't even like?

[Tony]

I mean, you could make a whole channel about your printer.

[Steve Chou]

No, no, that'd be. That'd be terrible. But it's supposed to drum up business and get people to like the brand, right?

[Tony]

Yes. Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

I mean, I like the brand. I just, you know, the top. The products just aren't me. Really.

[Tony]

So I definitely think you're in a hard place. Right. Just you personally, with the brand. I think someone else would have an easier time.

[Steve Chou]

Well, yeah, like maybe if I hired a spokesperson or someone.

[Tony]

Yeah. But then it sort of, I think spokespeople sort of dilute the, like, here's the owner of the brand. This is exciting, you know, personal connection. But I mean, talking about it today in the webinar, you know, one of my clients just launched on YouTube long form, and we're already seeing. We're already seeing conversions. Right. In sales after, in her case.

[Steve Chou]

It's perfect.

[Tony]

Absolutely perfect.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah, it's perfect. It's. It's. My business is just kind of random. Right. It's the origins of my business were, you know, mainly because of my wife's needs.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

At the time. Not my needs. Yeah. I mean, my needs were revenue. Right. So.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

But, yes, your client. Amazing synergy. I know it's gonna kick butt to generate revenue for products and everything as well.

[Tony]

Yeah. In fact, I just pulled the data because I'm updating some slides for that webinar. And I mean, and this is. I mean, this is small money. Right. We're talking. But like, we're also in the very. We're two weeks into the channel, I can show direct correlation to about $300 in sales from people who didn't. Who were not on the email list before, for, in, in two weeks. So it's like, I mean, and obviously there's a big advantage. She's an established brand. She has, you know, she has a presence outside of. But she had zero YouTube presence. Right. So we went, we started from zero with YouTube and I think anyone who is a brand. And as I was putting the slide together and updating some stuff, I thought about our friend Kelly, who has Kelly dream crochet kits and. Same thing. Yeah. But I feel like you're close to that niche, like the crochet niche. It's because you're kind of crafting, kind of special occasion.

[Steve Chou]

It is. Except I'm a middle aged Chinese dude.

[Tony]

Yes. If only you sold crochet stuff then you could just crochet all day.

[Steve Chou]

I could do the crafts and whatnot and I wouldn't care what people would think of me like doing them, you know, and I always have to make a choice. This is one of the reasons why having two businesses is bad. Right.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

I got to choose whether to focus my time on my. What, quit her job.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Or Bumblebee, where. Yeah. I feel like if I. There's a lot of history also with our business since we've been running it for our 18th year now. The dynamics between my wife and I also working together also come into play there too.

[Tony]

Yeah. So it's, it's definitely a complex situation. It's not as simple as like, oh, just start a YouTube, you know.

[Steve Chou]

But I would say if what you're selling and a lot of people listening to this actually sell physical products, if there's synergy with the content that you want to create with what you sell, I would almost go towards long form.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

It's gonna be a slog in the beginning and you're not gonna get nearly as many views as the shorts. But you gotta view this as like a multi year plan.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Because I remember when I did my channel that first year was pretty miserable. That when I launched it with a giveaway and a promotion, I think that video only got like 1500 views. And that sounds like a lot, but like I was blasting my email list, everything, text, everything at it, and that's all I could muster.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

And there were a lot of videos I published that first year that, you know, had less than a thousand views.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

And that hurts.

[Tony]

Yes. But it is a slog. And actually yesterday I was talking to my client about this and it was funny because she, she admitted something to me that I was like, please don't tell me These things moving forward. I don't want to know that. You know, we had this launch date set. We had. We were releasing one video a day for two weeks or 10 day, you know, like over a two week period as part of the launch strategy. And you know, she had to have all these videos filmed well, you know, like. And I told her, I was like, we can't do this last minute. Like you will get so stressed out. Whatever. Well then of course it was the holidays. She owns an E commerce business over the holidays, right. So it's like perfect storm, right? And she's like, I had a feeling, I forget when it was sometime in December she said where I almost messaged you and said we're not doing this right now. And I was like, I'm so glad you didn't because I would have driven to your house and put you in front of a camera. But, but I get it like that initial, especially when you first get started. Like you were saying your first videos. No, not a lot of view. You're not used to filming. So just getting used to using a teleprompter. Not using a teleprompter. Do I stand, do I sit? How much? What kind of editing do I want? There's so many components of it. Right. The good news is you're not going to get a lot of views. So if you decide to have not a lot of editing initially and then add more editing in the future, that's fine. You have a lot of opportunity and Runway to make changes. My client is a speaker speaker. So she, you know, the videos actually weren't terrible. She's great, she looks great on camera. They're great. For her it was more the writing the script and you know, the post film. Right. The editing side. And it was funny because she told me yesterday, she's like, well, writing the script is the hardest part. And I'm like, as it should be. Like you're doing exactly what you're writing. The script's the hardest part then that you're doing it right. Because filming it once you are used to filming is easy. It's the script writing that's gonna be where you have to put your most, the most brain power. Right. That and your title and your hook. But yeah, I think for E commerce brands, if you have any brand like remotely videoable, I guess you know where you can create that content. You know. One of our seller summit attendees works for a company. It's actually his husband of an attendee works for a company called Grizzly Coolers or Grizzly products and they sell like coolers and hunting stuff and it's like, like I hate to say this but it's like a man's brand, you know, kind of thing. And they, you know, they're a larger size business but they have done a really great job of creating that content online.

[Steve Chou]

Long form or short form?

[Tony]

Both. But like their Instagram is awesome. Like it's not awesome for me because it's like, you know, here's this 10 year old with a giant elk that he just shot whatever from a, from a tree stand made by this company, you know. But like for their, like they are killing it with the brand messaging, right? Like they know their audience, they know who they sell to and they are creating the perfect kind of content. Like you know, can a guy survive in one of our coolers? You know, out of a second store built story building, you know, like crazy stuff like that. But you know when I started looking at their video content I was like, yeah, they are getting customers through their content because of it's not their stuff's well done. But like their earlier stuff wasn't as great but they still had the messaging. Right. So I think if you're in e commerce like this is a no brainer for 2025.

[Steve Chou]

How many tears can a bumblebee linens hanky absorb?

[Tony]

Yes. And make it be Mike Jackness crying Shout out to Mike.

[Steve Chou]

You know I've been, I've been playing around a lot with the ChatGPT. I can't remember like the exact model name but it's where it branches out a whole bunch of different queries for you. And so you can actually ask it to give you a comprehensive TikTok plan and what to put in each video for like the next 30 days. And so you know, if you want the ideas that's actually a decent way to do it. But then of course you have to go film and edit.

[Tony]

Yes.

[Steve Chou]

What I like about long form is that you can actually make significant money on the ads. So I make you know, multiple six figures just on the ads and that can fund, you know, that can fund everything marketing. It could fund, you know, a editor and whatnot. Whereas with the short form I don't think you're ever going to make enough money.

[Tony]

You have to get so big you.

[Steve Chou]

Can, you can, I don't want to say you can't be done. Yeah, but yeah, in order to fund some of these activities. So really you're going to be depending on going viral and maybe getting brands to come out and pay you and that sort of thing. That's where I see a lot of people making money or if you sell your own product, people will naturally try to find your brand and buy it.

[Tony]

Yeah. So I think if you sell a physical product, well, I think short form is great. It's sort of that like awareness, right? That display, it's basically like display, old school display advertising, right. Just getting your brand in front of people. I think about whenever you and I both love the NBA, we've been to a lot of basketball games. You know, they, they I, I where we are, it's like Chick Fil a sandwich. But like if in the fourth quarter the opposing team meets, make misses two free throws in a row, everyone gets a free Chick Fil a sandwich, right? Like that's a pure exposure play for Chick Fil A because like plus you know, it gets all the crowd revved up. To me that's like the short form video, it's like pure exposure, right? Cute videos that people send to their friends. You get people excited, you get people involved. It's not a click over and make a transaction, right? So if you're make, if you're in E commerce and you're making that short form video, you know, you're just getting exposure, you're getting your name out there, you're getting you know, brand awareness. Whereas long form video to me is an actual like transactional giving piece of content. Right. Doesn't mean that you're, you're not going to get it from everybody. But like I've, I've watched a lot of YouTube videos over the past six weeks of trying to figure out the best way to get people to take an action without blatantly just selling. And you know, it can be done a variety of different ways. We talk about this a lot in the course but you know, you talk, you talk about a free six day mini course. You know, my client gives away a free, she's got a lead magnet on there and then as soon as they get in that email flow then it's your job to warm them up to the brand, get them to make a transaction. Very rarely do you know, is it like a direct sell from the video. Although in all of my clients videos she's talked about her products in every single video and people still absolutely love it. And it feels very natural, right? Because like you know she has one coming out next week on she sells a reading journal, basically helping your kids learn how to read, keep track of their reading, that kind of stuff as they get older. And it's the video is going to. I don't know exactly what the title is but you know, it's basically like how do you teach your kid how to read? Right. So it naturally fits into the product and what she's doing. And in a short form video you just can't get enough information out there. But if you are a content creator, if you sell a digital product, you sell course a membership. To me that short form can be very powerful because you're wanting people to take less of an action. Right. It's just a different, different component to that. And I think short form video for people who are doing that sort of business is definitely, I would, I would definitely have that in your, you know, marketing suite.

[Steve Chou]

I mean we have colleagues part of ECF that have built their entire business off of Tick Tock in short form. Right, like that, that ninja. The katana sword.

[Tony]

Yes, the katana guy.

[Steve Chou]

I mean it's just a bunch of short form videos of guys chopping stuff up with swords.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

And that, that's gone viral. I mean, I wonder what their repeat business is like. I can't imagine buying multiple katanas. But what do I know? Like I don't.

[Tony]

But you've never met a guy who owns one katana.

[Steve Chou]

That's not true. My best friend actually owns a bunch.

[Tony]

Yeah, see, so they do buy but.

[Steve Chou]

He collects them that like. Yeah, I don't know anything about katana so I should probably stop. But he goes to like shows and he collects them. They're really expensive, like tens of thousands of dollars.

[Tony]

Yeah, well, and you look at our friends Paul and Tiffany, they sell clothing. They've had huge amounts of sex success, short form video, TikTok shop. We won't go into all the reasons why they've had that success. She talks about that at seller Summit. But you know, so I think there is a place in e commerce for short form video. But it's definitely, it's definitely wouldn't be my priority especially if I was selling anything that like, I think clothing, beauty, that kind of stuff. Absolutely. Short term video. Like if I was in the beauty space, I would be sending my products to every influencer. I'd want stuff out there on TikTok but you know, other, other verticals, not so much.

[Steve Chou]

Here's an interesting tidbit too. And I actually got this from Dave Bryant's most recent YouTube video on Ecom Crew. Turns out that people in China are, are leaving Amazon because it's too competitive now. And what they're doing is they are all going all In. Into live selling.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

And so if you. And we've. Our friend Tiffany is a perfect example of this. I'm curious to try it. I don't know if it's something that I'd want to do regularly, but that's what's hot right now in China. And I feel like the people in China are always ahead of the curve, actually.

[Tony]

Yes. And I know our friend Ming, who is one. She's Chinese, but has a lot of interaction with, like, sourcing and everything from China. She was telling us at seller Summit that they've gotten so into life selling in China that they're actually using, like. I don't know if it's like holograms or like a. Like, it's not always a real person selling.

[Steve Chou]

No way. Yeah.

[Tony]

Yes. It's AI. Yes. And she was. She was trying to explain it, and I. It was like one of those things where I was like, no, no, that's. That's not true. Right. But apparently it is, so. And she's like, yeah, they'll be live for 24 hours, but it's not actually a real person.

[Steve Chou]

Huh?

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

I am very curious about that technology.

[Tony]

Yes. I might see her next week, so I'll. I'll get more information.

[Steve Chou]

I do know that they have a lot of sets in place. Like. Like, they'll show like, a video of something being made in a factory. It's a fake factory.

[Tony]

Yeah. You know, like, they're for no children. We know it's not real. No. But, yeah, I. It's. It's interesting. I have this one girl in my feed all the time, and I don't follow her. It. But she's live selling. Like, she's never not live selling. So I'm like, I wonder if she's even real. And she's. I don't know where she is. She's Asian and she's selling, like, skin care. So maybe like a Korean skincare brand or something like that. But she's always live in my feed when I. When I see the live tab. So her skin is perfect, though. So she could be a robot. It's possible.

[Steve Chou]

Maybe we should find someone to talk about that in Seller summit. Someone who broadcasts live 24 hours a day. It is true. There's people I see live in my feedback and they're always live.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Every time I'm on their live.

[Tony]

Yeah. I don't understand. That's the one. I mean, there's a lot about TikTok I don't understand, but that's probably the one that really baffles me is these creators go live and just sit on their couch. And I mean we remember, we talked about this like three years ago, one of my kids went live on Instagram and made a peanut butter sandwich and had like 400 people watching. And I was like, a peanut butter sandwich? Like, and she was like, like it wasn't anything like, you know, I'm making a peanut butter sandwich. Wink, wink. No, like you're literally making a peanut butter sandwich.

[Steve Chou]

Like, I mean your kids are attractive.

[Tony]

So they are, they're cute. But like it's a peanut butter sandwich.

[Steve Chou]

Come on now test this middle aged Chinese guy. Let's see If I get 400 people watching @ once.

[Tony]

You need to make a ch. Peanut butter sandwich and see what happens. Yeah, I mean, I think, I mean I'm in the process of hiring a video editor. I'm you know, helping a client launch a YouTube channel. Like I, I think video. We've, we said this for like the last two years, but it hasn't changed. Like video is, is probably where people need to be this year and to whether TikTok stays or goes. The way people consume content is here to stay and it's video content that they're consuming.

[Steve Chou]

Hope you enjoyed this episode. Has your TikTok strategy changed because of the ban? Let us know in the comments. For more information and resources, go to my wifequitterjob.com Episode 574 Once again, tickets to the Seller Summit 2025 are now on sale over at sellers summit.com if you want to hang out in person in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton, then come to my event. Go to sellersummit.com and if you're interested in starting your own e commerce store, head on over to my wife, quithherjob.com and sign up for my free six day mini course. Just type in your email and I'll send the course right away via email.