584: Traditional Media Is Dying – Why Building An Audience Matters More than Ever

Summary

Podcast Summary: Episode 584 — Traditional Media Is Dying – Why Building An Audience Matters More than Ever

Host: Steve Chou
Guest: Tony Chou
Release Date: March 27, 2025
Podcast: The My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast With Steve Chou

---

Introduction

In Episode 584 of The My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast, host Steve Chou and guest Tony Chou explore the declining relevance of traditional media and the burgeoning opportunities for content creators in the digital landscape. They delve into how the shift from conventional platforms like network TV to digital channels such as YouTube and podcasts is reshaping audience engagement and marketing strategies for businesses, especially within the e-commerce sector.

---

The Decline of Traditional Media

Steve opens the discussion by highlighting alarming statistics that demonstrate the dwindling viewership of traditional media outlets. He cites a recent article stating that MSNBC's prime time garnered only 118,000 viewers aged 25 to 54 (02:07).

Notable Quote:

"83% of Gen Zers watch podcasts on video." — Steve Chou [06:59]

Tony emphasizes that the under-55 demographic has largely abandoned traditional media, causing a significant drop in viewership and questioning the sustainability of traditional media business models (04:03).

Notable Quote:

"Everybody under 55 has sort of ditched traditional media." — Tony Chou [04:42]

---

The Rise of Content Creators and Digital Platforms

The conversation shifts to the rise of content creators leveraging platforms like YouTube, TikTok, and podcasts to build and own their audiences. Tony references the strategic media moves by high-profile figures like Donald Trump, who bypassed traditional media in favor of appearing on influential podcasts and YouTube channels, thereby enhancing their brand presence (03:46).

Steve adds that his YouTube videos often surpass traditional TV viewership, questioning the viability of expensive studio productions (05:04).

Notable Quote:

"You get the information even faster on TikTok." — Tony Chou [06:59]

---

Podcasting vs. YouTube: Evolving Media Consumption

Steve discusses the shift in podcasting, noting that YouTube has started to dominate the space. He shares his past hesitance towards podcasting due to slow growth and limited promotion from platforms like Apple and Spotify but expresses renewed interest in video podcasting fueled by recent statistics showing high engagement, especially among Gen Zers who prefer video podcasts (07:07).

Notable Quote:

"YouTube basically has started dominating podcasting as a result of it." — Steve Chou [07:12]

---

Streamlining Content Creation with AI Tools

To address the challenges of podcast editing, Steve introduces Autopod, a plugin for Adobe Premiere that automates jump cuts and eliminates dead space, significantly reducing the time required to edit long-form podcast episodes (12:10).

Notable Quote:

"Autopod... eliminates dead space which is like probably 80% of the editing of a podcast episode." — Steve Chou [12:16]

Tony highlights the cost-effectiveness and time-saving benefits of such tools, making video podcasting more accessible for creators (14:29).

---

Strategies for E-commerce Brands in the New Media Landscape

The discussion pivots to actionable strategies for e-commerce brands aiming to harness the power of content creation. Steve shares his approach with Bumblebee Linens, focusing on storytelling by sharing customer love stories to create engaging content tailored to their niche. He underscores the importance of authentic storytelling in building organic traffic and brand loyalty in the age of digital media (24:46).

Notable Quote:

"People just like stories. Like that's really the secret of content—telling stories." — Steve Chou [25:25]

Tony suggests leveraging existing content creators who authentically use and promote the brand's products, proposing the idea of hiring influencers who are already passionate about the brand to create authentic content without extensive back-and-forth collaboration (26:34).

---

Leveraging AI Avatars and Future Content Strategies

Steve contemplates the use of AI avatars for content creation, recognizing their potential while expressing concerns about maintaining genuine audience connections. He acknowledges the growing presence of AI-generated personalities in the media and debates whether they can achieve the same level of engagement as real individuals (30:20).

Notable Quote:

"If Mr. Beast was an AI generated thing, like, would people connect with him on the same level?" — Tony Chou [35:37]

---

Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Steve and Tony conclude by reiterating the critical need for businesses to adapt to the evolving media landscape by embracing content creation across digital platforms. They emphasize that while traditional media's influence wanes, building and owning an audience through engaging, authentic content remains paramount for sustained business success.

Notable Quote:

"If you're a brand or a business, no matter how big or small, if you don't start getting on the 55 and below train, as far as how you're going to reach people, you're gonna lose out and you're gonna waste your dollars." — Tony Chou [05:26]

---

Actionable Resources

• Seller Summit 2025: An annual conference tailored for e-commerce entrepreneurs focusing on practical strategies for selling physical products online. Tickets are limited and sell out quickly. More details at sellersummit.com.

• Free 6-Day Mini Course on E-commerce: Comprehensive tutorials on starting an online store, available at mywifequitherjob.com.

---

This episode provides valuable insights into the shifting dynamics of media consumption and offers practical strategies for e-commerce businesses to thrive by leveraging modern content creation tools and platforms.

Transcript

[Steve Chou]

Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all of the latest strategies and current events related to e commerce and online business. In this episode, Tony and I dive into why traditional media is collapsing and why it's great news for content creators. If you've ever thought about starting a podcast, YouTube channel or newsletter, now is the time to build your own platform and own your audience. But before we begin, I wanted to let you know that tickets are now on sale for Seller Summit 2025 [e-mail] and the prices are now going to go up every two weeks until the event starts. The Seller Summit is the conference that I hold every year that specifically targets e commerce entrepreneurs selling physical products online. Unlike other events that focus on inspirational stories and high level advice, mine is a curriculum based conference where you will leave with practical and actionable strategies specifically for an e commerce business. Every speaker I invite is deep in the trenches of their e commerce business. Entrepreneurs who are importing large quantities of physical goods and not some high level guys who are overseeing their companies at 50,000ft. I personally hate large events. So the Seller's Summit is always small and intimate. Every year we cut off ticket sales at around 200 people, so tickets sell out fast and we've sold out every single year for the past eight years. If you are an e commerce entrepreneur making more than $250,000 or $1 million per year, we also offer an exclusive mastermind experience with other top sellers. The Seller Summit is going to be held in Fort Lauderdale, Florida from May 6th to May 8th. Right now this is the cheapest the tickets will ever be. So head on over to sellers summit.com and grab your ticket. Now onto the show. Welcome to the My Wife Quitter Job podcast. Today we're going to be talking about something surprising as I was just kind of browsing the web the other day and how badly traditional media is hurting and how much there is of an opportunity now for just individual content creators to get a lot of attention.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah, I mean, what were you just telling me? That the regular TV doesn't get any viewers anymore or network tv.

[Steve Chou]

So this article is dated just last week and MSNBC prime time only had 118,000 viewers age 25 to 54.

[Tony Chou]

But what is the viewership like 65 plus? I feel like it's probably like 5 million.

[Steve Chou]

I. I don't know. I think it's the rest of it because they get like a million total viewers.

[Tony Chou]

Okay. Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

And yes, I believe it is all people over the age of 54.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah. So everybody under 55 has sort of ditched traditional media, which is.

[Steve Chou]

I was just looking at that number and I was shocked because I have a whole bunch of YouTube videos that get more than that. You know what I'm saying?

[Tony Chou]

No, that's, you know, it's interesting and we, we try to avoid talking about politics here on the podcast, but I do think that that was something very smart that the Trump team did for the election, as opposed. He did the traditional media route. Right. He did all that. But what he also did was he hit up all of those podcasters, right. Joe Rogan, Theo Vaughn, all those guys who have massive audiences. And he put himself out there in the non traditional media. And I do think that helped his brand. Right. Like him or hate him, it's just a media strategy. And I think the more any brand starts realizing that there's been this, like, fundamental shift, the quicker you're going to be able to recover probably what you've been losing from that.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah. You know, it's funny because I have conversations with my mom all the time and she just religiously leaves MSNBC on like all day long.

[Tony Chou]

Yes.

[Steve Chou]

So I, and you know, we're not gonna get political, but I do chat with my mom all the time. But I was just surprised at how low the numbers were.

[Tony Chou]

I'm not only because. Well, partly because I live in a house with millennials and, and gen zers. Right. And then I guess I do. I have one gen alpha. I don't know, she's 15. So is she. I don't know what the cutoffs are, but just watching the way my kids, 30 and under, consume media and all their friends, it's just so completely different than how I consume media. But also like how I think a lot of people who are in the 50, you know, the older generation, right. There is such a huge shift, especially split, Right. A split between like one world and another world. And I think if you are a brand or a business, no matter how big or small, if you don't start getting on the, you know, 55 and below train, as far as how you're going to reach people, you're gonna lose out and you're gonna waste your dollars. Right. That's the other thing. It's, it's not just about not being able to reach people. You're gonna waste money on how you spent, you know, on what you spend.

[Steve Chou]

Here's what I just. You don't get. Like, I can get118,000 viewers on one YouTube video, and I just have A camera, Right. But then these studios, they have a lot of, they're paying all these people, newscasters, they've all a lot of money, Right. So I don't see how it's sustainable.

[Tony Chou]

Well, so I don't think it is. And, and have you noticed this is the other reason why I noticed the shift is whenever TikTok went to longer video content on their, you know, being able to put more than like 60 seconds on TikTok and then it went to three and then it went to 10, I noticed that all of the news networks were basically publishing on TikTok. Right? Like they were putting full news segments on TikTok every single day. Like they clearly have a full time team working that angle. Right. Because they've realized that like that's where people are consuming their content. In fact, we just had another plane incident this week and I don't know if you saw in the news.

[Steve Chou]

I did, of course.

[Tony Chou]

I don't know. I don't know like I don't ever turn on the, I don't ever turn on the tv. But what I have found is when I see or hear a piece of content news normally like my old self would have been like, oh, let me pull up CNN.com or FoxNews.com or let me pull up like a news channel to see like what the reporting is. Heck no. I went to TikTok and search Delta flight, right? Like, because I knew. And here's what's funny is you get all these like random people who like posting, right. But all of the newslet outlets are also publishing on TikTok, all of the information. And I feel like with TikTok you get the information even faster. And I think that's what society has realized is like the one, everyone wants everything immediately, right. They don't want to wait for anything, they don't want to wait for production, they don't want to wait for any of that. And because of that, like these channels can just set up on TikTok and go very quickly with the information. And I think that's where people are consuming it.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah. So there's a reason why I brought this all up. The other thing, here's just another stat before we get into the rest of it. 83% of Gen Zers watch podcasts on video.

[Tony Chou]

Yes.

[Steve Chou]

And I just read another article where these are all kind of recent articles. Although you know, if, if you've been in the community, people have been chattering about this for a long time. But YouTube basically has started dominating podcasting as A result of it. And you know me, we just did this episode on podcasting, which I don't know if I published actually just yet, but I'd been down on podcasting for a long time.

[Tony Chou]

Yes.

[Steve Chou]

Like, I have been putting. I've been de emphasizing my podcast over the years because just the growth trajectory is just so slow. Mainly because Apple has done a horrible job of promoting podcasts, and Spotify is a little better, but it's still not that great.

[Tony Chou]

Also, the search feature stinks. Like, there's just. Yeah, there's a lot of negatives with Apple, for sure.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah. But. So that's why I've been de emphasizing it. In fact, you know, as soon as I was done with the book, I was burnt out on podcasting because I did so much promotion through it and whatnot. But then now that, you know, I've read all these statistics and how everyone has a video podcast, and I just didn't realize the consumption of it. I'm back on the podcasting bandwagon, in fact. So we're gonna turn my wife quit her job into a video podcast to be launched pretty soon. And then I just upgraded to 4K. And I know people listening to this are like, oh, my God, you should upgrade to 4K a long time ago.

[Tony Chou]

Or we don't want to see you in 4K, one of the two.

[Steve Chou]

Well, the thing is, like, I. I've been doing fine with my old camera. Right? So I didn't. I didn't really see the point, but I thought it was time.

[Tony Chou]

So just since we're turning this into a video podcast, does that mean that I get to buy a couch for my office and I can sit on my couch and, like, with a blanket, like all these podcasters do, and with my cup of tea and, you know, talk. Or not. We're not doing that.

[Steve Chou]

You could. I don't know. My. My background isn't all that great, but I don't think it really matters.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah. So what's so interesting? So I'm actually curious how the My wife quit her job YouTube podcast. I don't know what the correct way to term it. Name it, like when you have a guest on. Or if I'm on with you, which I know I'm on once a week, and then I know you still have guests. How will it be when it's just you? Like how. Because to me, when I see video podcasts, which that's primarily how. Unless I'm in the car, I consume podcasts. Usually on YouTube, it's always two people talking, sometimes three. Right. So there's always like this group factor, which I do think makes the video more interesting. Right. Because you see reactions, you see, you know, there's like a back and forth. I'm curious. I don't actually think I've ever seen a single person podcast video. And it's because I'm not looking. Right.

[Steve Chou]

But I'm not doing solo episodes on my wife quitter job podcast.

[Tony Chou]

Not doing any.

[Steve Chou]

Well, no, because the solo episodes are YouTube videos. They go on the main channel.

[Tony Chou]

Oh, so those will. Those won't be with a microphone in front of you and they won't be.

[Steve Chou]

Those will not. Right? That's correct. Yeah.

[Tony Chou]

That's what I was curious about, because I just haven't seen that. So I wonder how. I think one of the reasons why it works on video is because there's always two people or more.

[Steve Chou]

Actually, the way I've been doing it now is I. If I have a good hit on YouTube, it actually goes on the podcast.

[Tony Chou]

Okay.

[Steve Chou]

But I record a separate intro for it and then another lead in. And then I. There's this process where I use AI software to just make it so that the, the, you know, the, you know how the environment is different on YouTube versus this mic. So I have this AI thing going, make it sound reasonably similar.

[Tony Chou]

Okay.

[Steve Chou]

And then I post it on the podcast. So. Because, you know, I mean, I'm going to be straight up with everyone listening. Like, the podcast has not grown that much over the years, and I think I was just late to this YouTube thing because it's a lot of work actually, to edit a YouTube podcast. Right.

[Tony Chou]

We've. So, I mean, you're late. We've talked about doing this for like two years, so we knew it was coming. It wasn't like, it wasn't like you were late. You were just a late adopter of it. I think.

[Steve Chou]

I think I'm always a late adopter to everything, to be honest with you, because. So right now I'm at. We're at different stages of life. I feel like right now, like, I need to be there for my teenagers, especially right now when they're applying to colleges and whatnot. So I've dialed a lot of things back as of. As of late, whereas I think you're the opposite. Like, your kids are pretty much adults now for the most part.

[Tony Chou]

I still have one, but. Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah. And so you're. You're more gung ho about everything. But. So I. I needed to wait for that moment where there was an easy automated way of doing it. And just recently I found this software that makes editing podcasts a lot easier. Pretty much automated. Almost automated, I should say.

[Tony Chou]

Let's talk about it. Let's talk. Because I know people are going to ask. So we got to talk about it.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah. So it's basically this plugin called autopod that hooks onto Adobe Premiere.

[Tony Chou]

Okay.

[Steve Chou]

And it basically does all of the jump cuts.

[Tony Chou]

Okay.

[Steve Chou]

Like with the speakers. And it eliminates dead. Dead space too.

[Tony Chou]

Mm.

[Steve Chou]

Which is like probably 80, 75, 80% of the editing of a podcast episode. Right?

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

What. What makes these so difficult is that podcast episodes are long. Like ours are about 40 to 50 minutes. And so. And I think about how long it takes to edit a YouTube video.

[Tony Chou]

Right.

[Steve Chou]

Right now it's probably like three hours for a ten minute video. If we were to edit the same level as a regular YouTube video for a podcast, I mean, that would. That would take days.

[Tony Chou]

Right, right. Which.

[Steve Chou]

Which isn't feasible. So I think the most important part is to just get it up on there. And I've been watching a lot of video podcasts lately. They're not doing anything fancy, really. They're just panning the camera back and forth. Right?

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

And doing a little bit of zoom action occasionally.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah, that's it. So how much does this tool cost?

[Steve Chou]

It is, I believe, $30 a month.

[Tony Chou]

Okay. So you have to have Adobe Premiere.

[Steve Chou]

You have to have Adobe Premiere license to.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah. Which.

[Steve Chou]

And that costs whatever it costs.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah. I was going to say, I don't. You're. You. Are you still using your 2009 Adobe?

[Steve Chou]

No. You have to use the latest.

[Tony Chou]

Okay.

[Steve Chou]

That's the, the other caveat there.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah. Let's be honest about the pricing for people. Come on.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah. No, it ends up being. I can't remember how much Adobe. I mean, everyone pays different for Adobe.

[Tony Chou]

But Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Let'S just call it all in like 80 bucks.

[Tony Chou]

But if, if the plugin gets you 80% of the way there with removing the dead space cuts, things like that, I mean, that's a huge time savings because if Your podcast is 40 minutes and what did you say 10 minutes per minute of video to edit is about?

[Steve Chou]

It's about three hours for 10 minutes for my editor who's doing all the captions and everything too. Right.

[Tony Chou]

So we're talking at one podcast could take 10 out 10 hours.

[Steve Chou]

Oh, easily.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

More than that.

[Tony Chou]

So to. To take 80 of that off and then maybe now it's only going to take you two hours. That's a pretty big savings. Is For. It's like, that's worth the $30 a month for sure.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah. So all this is just conjecture right now because we literally just got the thing working.

[Tony Chou]

Yes.

[Steve Chou]

Two days ago. And so we're working on just, like, the first episode right now.

[Tony Chou]

It's not conjecture, though, because we. We already know it works. You waited long enough. So now we know that people are doing it and they're successful.

[Steve Chou]

No, I'm talking about the time to edit.

[Tony Chou]

Oh, time to edit.

[Steve Chou]

It's just conjecture.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Because the tool, like, we literally just got out working a couple days ago.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

When I texted you about it.

[Tony Chou]

Oh, gotcha. Okay. Yeah, I see what you're saying. So, yeah. Okay. So that's. That's a plus. I think the other plus about video podcasting is that your watch time is going to be longer.

[Steve Chou]

Yes.

[Tony Chou]

Because even if Your podcast is 30 minutes, chances are people. People are probably having it on in the background, listening. Right. They're probably doing other things. I don't think many people just sit in front of their computer like a tv and watch a podcast. I feel like it's on. They're watching it, sort of, but they're also doing other things.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah.

[Tony Chou]

So you're gonna get those watch hours up pretty significantly just from the fact that people will probably listen all the way through, or at least 50%, unless your podcast is really boring. So what are the tricks are we going to employ to keep people listening?

[Steve Chou]

I have no idea. Let's. Let's go in. Baby steps. Baby steps. Get up there. Yeah. And the problem is I'm trying to take away things off my plate, but I just added a couple things on. Uh, one of the other reasons why I bought my 4K camera is because I'm going to be filming videos for Bumblebee. I already have six scripts.

[Tony Chou]

Okay.

[Steve Chou]

And I bought a green screen. I had to actually buy a whole bunch of new equipment because I got up to 4k. Like, my SD card didn't work anymore. My computer can't read the higher SD card speeds.

[Tony Chou]

Yep.

[Steve Chou]

A whole bunch of stuff I just bought, like, relatively recently. It all arrived yesterday.

[Tony Chou]

Okay. We should have done an unboxing. What are you talking about?

[Steve Chou]

I mean, it's not that exciting. The camera looks the same. It's just. I don't know, I feel like for people listening, they're like, oh, my God, Steve, you're just jumping on the 4k bandwagon. I don't do things unless I feel it's necessary.

[Tony Chou]

Yes, that's true.

[Steve Chou]

Like, I mean, I've gotten to 400. And I don't know how many. 400,000 subscribers. I don't know how many I have right this second with just 1080p. Right.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

On the belief that video quality isn't as important as audio quality, which I still believe is true.

[Tony Chou]

Right. So now here's my next question. So are you going to use the 4K camera to record our podcasts?

[Steve Chou]

No. Unless you buy a 4K camera.

[Tony Chou]

Well, that's what I'm saying. If you're going to do that, then I got it. Because I'm just using my Logitech Webcam.

[Steve Chou]

To record 1080p is good enough. And ironically, right now we haven't switched over. I don't think so. You know, all of our old episodes are not going to like the quality.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Isn't. I don't think people will notice, to be honest with you.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Unless they're watching on a gigantic screen tv.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

I don't think people are.

[Tony Chou]

They don't. That's a terrible.

[Steve Chou]

But yes, we are going to definitely move this to 1080p. I don't think we can do 4k, because. At least not yet. I don't know if our plan allows it yet, but I don't. I don't think it's that important, to be honest with you.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah, I don't either. Especially because we don't have, like, a backdrop or anything. This isn't like a. We're not in a living room.

[Steve Chou]

Yeah. Actually, I did a whole bunch of research also on the editing of it because the file sizes are so much larger.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

But my camera has a feature. And again, people listening is probably. Oh, my God, this has been around forever. But the camera will record two streams at the same time, one at 4K and one at a very reduced quality with the same file name. So you edit the one that's lower quality and then you just splice in the one that's higher quality at the end because it's identical.

[Tony Chou]

Okay. It's interesting.

[Steve Chou]

So the editing is. Is not a problem either.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Anyway, so that's what's been going on. And then I. I just been reading all these stats on. You know, I used to want to be on TV so bad when I was younger. You know what I mean?

[Tony Chou]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

And whenever I did get on tv, which I did for the book and whatnot, I was always really excited. But now I'm not that excited anymore about TV because I just didn't realize how low the viewership is. It's Ridiculously low.

[Tony Chou]

So what's so interesting about this is I think when we all started out as bloggers, right, we all like getting on the news or getting featured in some, you know, usually it was like print magazines, right? Like that was such a big deal. And I remember I got on several news shows. I did Clark Howard and like my website crashed. Every time I, even though we like tried to make sure it wouldn't crash, it crashed. But nowadays I feel like you could probably get on any news show and you, your website would handle it just fine. However, I think if you got on someone's YouTube, right? Or you did like, I think it's completely reversed now. It's more about getting on someone who has a huge following. Like I think about, I think about. We've talked about AJ a lot lately. But you know, he's, he's the bring the boom and they, you know, they built a big following. But then he partnered with Mr. Beast. So I can only imagine like when you partner with Mr. Beach who is the largest influencer in the world, right, like he has the biggest following, like what is that doing right to your channels? You're going to see a boost. Because as soon as he did Mr. Beast, I saw him get all these other opportunities. Like he was at the super bowl, he was at the World Series, like he was doing all these things. And so before it was like if I can just get on. I remember I got on ABC Nightly News and I was so excited. It was like a decent segment and it did it boost. I got great boost from it, right? But today I feel like like that would never occur to me to get on ABC Nightly News. I would much rather get YouTube channel, right. Her large family cooking or do a guest. You did Grant Cardone, didn't he do a, like a spinoff piece about you, about your millennial money thing?

[Steve Chou]

Oh, you're talking about Graham Stephan.

[Tony Chou]

Graham Stephan? Yes. Why did I say Grant Cardone? Graham Stephan did the spin off piece for you. Like to me that's a bigger win than getting on tv. At this point.

[Steve Chou]

I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store. I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in E commerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free. And can be [e-mail] free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I'll send you the course right away. Once again, that's mywifequitterjob.com free. Now, back to the show. I mean, totally. I mean, we're talking about 120,000 people, right?

[Tony Chou]

Right. Versus who? 120,000 people. And probably most of those are 45 and above, so they don't know how to punch in the URL.

[Steve Chou]

Exactly. And meanwhile, like Mr. Beast, he posts a video that gets tens of millions of views. Right. It's not even a contest.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah. It's just. It's crazy to me how it's not been quick, but it feels quick.

[Steve Chou]

I mean, here's the other article I read, and this is. This one was late 2024, so it's slightly older. But all the big media outlets are actually trying to partner with the individual influencers now and not the other way around.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Like, I feel like they need us now as opposed to the other way around.

[Tony Chou]

The power has shifted. Go content creators.

[Steve Chou]

And this is all to say that I think you need to be creating content today.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

No matter what type of business that you run. And this is why I'm doing that. Bumblebee linens, YouTube, kicking and screaming.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

It just needs to be done. Finally. I've been dragging my. How long? I've been talking about it two years.

[Tony Chou]

It's been longer than that. It's. I don't think it's been longer than I do. I think you've had a. You've been seriously talking about it for two years, but we've been talking about this for significantly longer. But then that leads me to this question, Right. If you're a brand in big or small. Right. Maybe you're just starting an E commerce store. That seems overwhelming. Like it seemed hard enough to get on traditional media. Right. Like have the Today show feature your. You had the Today show feature your hankies at some point, your linens. You know, that always seemed really overwhelming. Like, how do I get a spot on there? Or how do I get on Rachael Ray? Or how do I get on, you know, whatever the talk show was at the time, that was a big deal. But you kind of knew if you got a publicist and you're willing to pay to play, you could usually get, you know, you could get yourself. And once you got the first one, you get, you know, you get subsequent deals usually with. With traditional media. So my question is, now that the game has completely changed. Like, how does a brand like Bumblebee hack the system? Right. How do you figure out how to become something that people want to the content people want to consume?

[Steve Chou]

I mean, that's the challenging part. And let me just first say this. If you're an E commerce store, you don't need content to hit seven figures. Like practically everyone I know, I would say 90%. They just can hit that point just on ads.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Alone. Right. It's if you want like more effortless sales, like where you're not paying for it and organic sales, that's where content has always been the play. And when we started Bumblebee back in 2007, can you believe it's been been 18 years now?

[Tony Chou]

That's crazy.

[Steve Chou]

It was all based on SEO and blogging. Right. We put out content and that's what attracted people to the store. But now that blogging is, I don't want to say dead, but it's not really where, you know, the Gen Z are consuming content. The older generation is still consuming content there, which fortunately Bumblebee linen skews older.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

But you know, if you want the gen zers and the younger folk, you, you're going to need to start creating content to get organic traffic in the places that they're consuming content, which is right now short form video and YouTube.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah, right.

[Steve Chou]

I lost track of your question. I went on this tangent.

[Tony Chou]

Yes.

[Steve Chou]

It was the Bumblebee linen strategy, Right?

[Tony Chou]

Yeah. So how. So how is specifically Bumblebee going to do that?

[Steve Chou]

So this is just something that I've learned over the years running my YouTube channel, is that people just like stories. Like that's really the secret of content telling stories. So my idea for Bumblebee, and this has actually been kind of hard to execute just because I've had to comb through tons of testimonials and whatever, but I'm going to just tell the stories of my customers. And we just happen to be in a good niche where people are getting married. So there's always some sort of love story behind it. And in my mind, since I haven't published anything yet, in my mind I have this vision of like telling these love stories.

[Tony Chou]

We'll see how stories by Steve.

[Steve Chou]

We'll see how it gets executed. Right. Where I'm not really mentioning. I mean, I'll mention the product, but really it's just the personalization of the product that I'm really focusing on. And then the story behind the personalization.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah. So that's, I guess my other question because we, I see this a lot with E commerce stores. You are, you are not the face of Bumblebee. Right. Like, and you don't want to be. And there's, there's a lot of people out there who sell products where they should not be the face of the company. So how do companies like that storytell and create this content when they are probably not able to talk about it in a really authentic way? Because they might be passionate about the business but like they're not into Yo Yoing, right. Or whatever. They're not a, like I think about Lars, right? He sold Yo Yo. He sold gardens. He was actually kind of into gardening, I think. But like, if you are like have a black thumb but you sell gardening supplies and tools, like, it doesn't mean that you can't create the content. But like how do you do that if you or yourself are not a gardener?

[Steve Chou]

I mean this isn't like a unusual problem. Let's, let's take Ezra for example. He's, he's hired people.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah, right.

[Steve Chou]

To be spokespersons because Ezra's not going to be there talking about new age beauty products. Right?

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

And arguably I shouldn't be the one doing these videos either. Right. But my wife's not going to do them. She, it, she, she just, you know, she doesn't want to. To create videos, which is understandable. Not everyone wants to create these videos. So if I'm able to get any traction, that's just going to show that a middle aged Chinese dude can, can do this and which pretty much means that anyone can do it. Right?

[Tony Chou]

Yeah. So one idea that I actually came up with this morning, so we were, I was actually interviewing somebody for a job and it's. Some of the job is in social media. But as I was interviewing them, I realized that they probably weren't the person that needed to be creating the reels. So I was interviewing someone for a social media position and I realized during the interview that while they might be great creating the social media like strategy and things like that, that they weren't the person that would be like great on reels. They wouldn't be the person creating the content. And as we were brainstorming after the interview of, okay, so this person is probably not the best person to do reels. Like what do we do to fill that void? Right. And the idea that we came up with was typically when you, if you create a product that I don't know, like even hankies, for example, right. There are probably people out there who are creating video content about your products to use their affiliate links. Right. Or to promote. And so the idea that we came up with was, why don't we hire somebody who's already making content about us using their affiliate link and pay them to create content that we can use on social media? So we would own the content. We would just pay them to be a content creator. And then it hit me that we know someone who's been doing this for a long time, and that's Andy, who creates Instagram and TikTok content for financial bloggers. Right? So he basically has built a whole part of his business on being the personality or the face for other brands and creating that content. So I think that is one thing that you can do. And if you have people already creating content about your products or posting on social, making YouTube content, those would be the first people I ask because they're probably happy. Like, usually those people do not want a full time job. You know, they're just trying to do a side hustle. And so if you said, hey, yeah, you're making some affiliate money from talking about our products, but what if you could make like an hourly. Like, what if we pay you $100 a video or whatever it is, right? Depending on what you're asking them to do. That's one way you can get somebody to be the face of your brand without you having to do it. And their level of talent and ability might vary, right? So they might, you might need to give them a script. They might come up with a script. I know Andy creates his own. He creates the scripts. He does, like the whole thing, right? The scripting, the editing, the filming.

[Steve Chou]

This is Andy, by the way. Do I know this person?

[Tony Chou]

Yes. Marriage and money Andy. Yeah. So he creates content for Robert Farrington, college investor and a couple other people. So, like, there are people out there where they maybe don't want to be a brand themselves, but they are more than happy to do that video content for you. And this is not like you're not paying thousands and thousands of dollars, especially if you're just making reels and TikToks, right? We're talking about short form content. And I would start with people that, you know, might be your customers already that are already making that content. And a lot of brands already have people making content organically for them. Why not just approach them and say, hey, I want to hire you.

[Steve Chou]

All right, so here's, here's my future plan.

[Tony Chou]

Okay.

[Steve Chou]

I might consider using AI avatars. I. I showed you that one. Right?

[Tony Chou]

Okay. You fooled me with that.

[Steve Chou]

Right. Because it's so good.

[Tony Chou]

Yes.

[Steve Chou]

The AI avatars are so good now because I actually have a YouTube video coming out about this. But I started using these for ads where you can just get an AI avatar. These are actually humans that have gone through the whole process of, you know, deep fake, I guess.

[Tony Chou]

Okay.

[Steve Chou]

You know, so basically you can put whatever words.

[Tony Chou]

So it's really a human on the video?

[Steve Chou]

Well, I mean, it was. It was created. The avatar was created by a real human. So these are real people. It's not like a completely human, you know, artificially generated person. It's actually a real person.

[Tony Chou]

Okay.

[Steve Chou]

Who's probably gone through and trained the model.

[Tony Chou]

Okay.

[Steve Chou]

To be them.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

And that's why it works so much better than these completely artificially generated models.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

And so you can have it say whatever you want. And it is very effective. So, you know. Right. It's. It's pretty inexpensive too. So in theory, you can just get a script, have an AI avatar, read it, and then you do the rest of it. Like the B roll and whatnot. For your.

[Tony Chou]

Do you know anybody who's doing this right now?

[Steve Chou]

Well, I mean, if you look at it, there's tons of AI on Tik Tok already.

[Tony Chou]

Right, right.

[Steve Chou]

And I know for a fact that some of these YouTube ads I've been seeing, like, there's this one where this guy comes. I don't know, you probably don't get this ad because we have different content, but this guy comes on, he says, I'm the only one who reveals all of my trades to the public stock trades.

[Tony Chou]

Okay. Okay.

[Steve Chou]

And the only reason I know that's fake is because I got another video from a different guy, same company that said the exact same words. So the guy's just sitting on a couch.

[Tony Chou]

Different avatar.

[Steve Chou]

Different avatar. He's just sitting on the couch, not moving and saying these things. Like, if there's lots of motion, that's a little harder to.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

You know, but so it's already happening.

[Tony Chou]

That makes me nervous.

[Steve Chou]

It's already happening and I know it's happening in the ad space big time.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Right.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

But whether you can create a full length YouTube video on it, it doesn't need to be full length, like a minute. You can easily get away with it.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

So you know someone like me who, like, going out and paying someone to create a video sounds intimidating to me.

[Tony Chou]

Really? Someone who's already creating content for you, though?

[Steve Chou]

Yeah, I'm not. I don't question, like the quality and whatnot, but just the act of getting down, talking to someone, negotiating a rate and then having to approve, you know. You know, when I do a sponsored video, there's a lot of back and forth and that's energy.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

And you know me, I don't like that part about it.

[Tony Chou]

Right. No, I know. Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

I rather just someone throwing the video say, hey, just do whatever you want. You have creative direction and whatnot.

[Tony Chou]

Well, that's why I think someone like Andy is such a good find for people, is that if you can find someone that already is like very into your brand or aligned with your brand, maybe they're already making content about it. I think Andy has a lot of creative freedom. I don't think there's a lot of back and forth. Right. I think it's basically like, we're paying you per video. We want three a week. Have fun. Right. I mean, I don't know the exact specifics of their deal, obviously, but that's what I assume it is based on just conversations that I've had and people that I know have done it with other people. It's kind of like back when I hired all the writers I hired, I hired my readers. Right. I hired the people that were most aligned with my brand. And obviously, you know, it came with some good and bad because, you know, initially some of the photos were terrible. Like, I've paid to have photos retaken and things like that of stuff. So, you know, that's not necessarily always going to work out amazing. But it's definitely the best way to find someone that aligns with your brand. And if you can get like one person that's like your committed person to do it, there's a lot less of that back and forth.

[Steve Chou]

Whereas I can generate five AI videos in like 30 minutes or so.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah, but will they work, is my question.

[Steve Chou]

Well, if it's good enough, then it will work, right? Well, because I fooled you for a 30 second. What was it? I can't remember.

[Tony Chou]

You fooled me that it wasn't real. Yes, but did you fool me to buy your brand? Right. Those are two very different things. So to me, one of the reasons why video is so powerful and I will probably be eating my words in one year, we will be playing this little clip in our, like, video podcast of me completely being wrong. Like, one of the reasons why video is so powerful is because you feel like you connect with the person. Right. You have a. Like, people adore Mr. Beast. Love him or they hate him. Right. Like, I remember like a couple years ago, all my nephew wanted for Christmas was Mr. Beef Beast Merch. Right. And I'm like, so you really want me to buy a sweatshirt from a TikTok or YouTuber? Like, this is ridiculous. Right. But it's like, so if Mr. Beast was an AI generated thing, like, would people connect with him on the same level? I don't know.

[Steve Chou]

Well, that's already taken place. Right. You've seen those AI Instagram, like, this article is pretty old, but this AI Instagram person had millions and millions of followers. And I think this is happening in Japan.

[Tony Chou]

Of course.

[Steve Chou]

And you're old enough to remember this. Remember Max Headroom?

[Tony Chou]

Yes. Yes.

[Steve Chou]

He was like the first AI generated avatar. Like, everyone listening is like, who the hell is Matt?

[Tony Chou]

It's so true.

[Steve Chou]

So it's already happening. This isn't new.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah. But I just wonder, will the level of connection be the same? That's my question. Not, does it work? It'll work. But, like, will you be able to drive the same type of engagement I have?

[Steve Chou]

I have no idea. I mean, it's. It's ultimately the words that are coming out of the mouth that someone has to generate that's causing the connection. Right. In a way.

[Tony Chou]

But part of it's the, like, I actually, like, I think it's crazy that you're gonna do this for Bumblebee a little bit like, that you're gonna read love stories about people. Right.

[Steve Chou]

It's not a love story. It's just like, I. I like hearing these. Right. Like, first thing I want to ask someone is, how did you get together?

[Tony Chou]

Yes.

[Steve Chou]

And it's just a story of how did you get together?

[Tony Chou]

Yes. But I.

[Steve Chou]

It's not like, it's not like a romance novel. Her soft, velvety flesh as I. I'll.

[Tony Chou]

Sign up for it. I'll read, I'll watch it. Sign me up. But what now, I'm never going to get that out of my head. But I do think there will be something endearing about you telling the stories. Like, I think that they're like, I think it's crazy in a way, but I also think it's endearing. Like, I think people will connect with that. Like, oh, here's this guy. He's like, loves these stories. It's only because I know you very personally that I think it's funnier because you're so, like, matter of fact about so many things in your life. Like, I've decided to get a 4K camera after 14 spreadsheets and deliberations. Like, like, like, that's why I think. I think there's the angle to it that makes it fun and interesting. Right. If. If it's just an AI avatar telling the story, I don't think it's. I think it's more interesting with you. But it could be that I have a bias because I know you. Right. So there's, like, all these factors that play in.

[Steve Chou]

I'm worried about it because I'm Asian, actually. If I was. And it's hard for me to say this, but, you know, right now there's, you know, we're in a trade war, and, yeah, I'm just worried about, like, all the negative effects, but, hey, something's got to be done, so.

[Tony Chou]

I mean, you've been putting out. You've been putting out YouTube content, though, for. Oh, did you know yesterday I meant to screenshot you. Yesterday was your YouTube anniversary.

[Steve Chou]

Oh, was it?

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

How did you know that?

[Tony Chou]

Because I got. I got a Facebook note memory. Hold on. I took a photo of it, and I meant to text you, and then I got. Okay. On this day, five years ago. This is from yesterday. I launched my YouTube channel today, and to commemorate the occasion, I'm running a huge giveaway. See, you can see it.

[Steve Chou]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah, there it is.

[Steve Chou]

Five years ago to the day.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah, yesterday. February 18, 2020. So right before you launched. Right before the pandemic. During COVID Right, right before the 18th. So we didn't know it was coming.

[Steve Chou]

Yep.

[Tony Chou]

So anyway, so I'm saying you've been doing this for five years. As a Chinese guy, you've survived.

[Steve Chou]

That's correct. But I'm not selling hankies either.

[Tony Chou]

You're selling mostly people in the South. Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Right.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah. I'll be interested. I'll be interested to see, like, I think if. If you can make this work for Bumblebee, this is gonna be like, a game changer for people in E commerce to. For you to be able to teach how to do this.

[Steve Chou]

You can't really. I don't know. It's gonna be hard to teach this stuff. I mean, everyone has their own thing. Like, I'm not the only one creating content, obviously. There's so many e commerce brands creating content. You just have to find your thing. Right. Like, we talked about the. I forgot the. The brand now, but they sell katana blades.

[Tony Chou]

Yes.

[Steve Chou]

And their videos are just like a bunch of young kids, like, chopping things up with a sword, Right?

[Tony Chou]

Yes.

[Steve Chou]

And that works.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

I mean, it just totally depends on your brand and the type of people that you attract.

[Tony Chou]

But. Yes, but I think that the katana People, Right. Like, it's interesting to watch. I mean, who doesn't like watching a watermelon get chopped in half? Like, that's entertaining. Eric from beardbrand, like, it's like, that's interesting content. Right. All the guys on their page are like, hot and like have gray beards and it's like, okay, well the. Clearly there's, there's a reason why people are watching this. But for you to come on and be like, I'm a middle aged Chinese guy that sells hankies. Here's how I had a content win. I think that's the game changer for people. So it's helping people that are like, well, I sell sprinkler parts or I sell doorknobs or, you know, these really mundane or like mostly uninteresting types of products. Like, how do you take those, those products and make really interesting content out of it? And so what I'm saying is if you can make it work for Bumblebee, I think it's going to inspire a lot of people to try it as well.

[Steve Chou]

I mean, I, in the back of my mind, I know this is going to work.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

It's just, to what level is it going to work and whether the vision that I have in my head will actually work because I have doubts on that. Because I don't want people just watching me. Like, ideally my head is just a very teeny percentage of the video. Right. Which means I need imagery, I need B roll. And fortunately, we're just living in this age of AI where I can actually have cartoon photos of this. Like, I have no idea what these customers look like. I literally have no idea what they look like. I want to keep everything completely anonymous too, in case I offend someone. Right, right. But I've already added to the autoresponder sequence, like, tell me the story. And what I'm going to do actually is I'm going to send out these stories if, if I'm happy with them to actual customers. Right. As just like a sample. Like, hey, you know, here are just some love, you know, relationship stories from the people who've bought and hopefully that'll create some sort of, I guess, traction with the customers and make this, make them remember our story even more.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Right. Because we're telling these stories and maybe they'll want to come on.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

You know, and submit their story. Yeah, it's, it's, it's fundamentally sound. I think the strategy, it's all an execution play. And whether I can pull it off or not, I'm not. I'm not positive, actually. So, like, these first set of videos are horrible.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

Then I'm probably not going to publish them. But, you know, after a couple of iterations and whatnot, I'm sure we can find something. The hard part will be whether it can be low energy, which you're like, what?

[Tony Chou]

Yeah. I just think that in general, creating video content is not low energy. Can it be streamlined? Yes. Can you create a process? Yes. Can you make it, you know, efficient? Sure. Is it ever going to be low energy? Probably not, because to me, content requires energy. Like, especially video.

[Steve Chou]

This is what I mean by that. I want to be able to just record. Write the script, record my part, throw it over.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

And have the video ready. That's what I mean by low energy.

[Tony Chou]

Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

I can't be getting involved in creating the AI imagery and the editing and all that stuff.

[Tony Chou]

Not to get too far in the weeds, but is your VA gonna create the AI. The AI imagery?

[Steve Chou]

So that's the part that I need to figure out. It's all work in progress. We'll see how it goes.

[Tony Chou]

Okay. But let's. Let's end it. Talking a little circling back to the POD video podcast. When is this going to be live, Steve?

[Steve Chou]

I have no idea. I really have no idea. But it's on the priority list now. Once it's made my to do list, it's going to happen.

[Tony Chou]

Okay. And will it be. Will people be able to watch the full. In full podcast on YouTube?

[Steve Chou]

It'll be the full podcast.

[Tony Chou]

Okay. And they will get to see how many times I roll my eyes at you. Yawn. All that will now be. Be public to the world.

[Steve Chou]

And you'll notice that in the earlier episodes, Tony just comes in, like, rolling out of bed. But now she's going to start looking much better because it's going to be a video podcast.

[Tony Chou]

I'm like, dang it. Which because of this, actually, I've shifted all my recording to Wednesdays now. So I'm about to record a laundry video right after this. So a riveting video on laundry that will be. Yeah.

[Steve Chou]

There's a lot of things to figure out still. But if you guys are listening to this, it'll be very obvious when we launch because we're going to launch with a contest and a whole bunch of other things too. Hope you enjoyed this episode. To think that some of my videos on YouTube get more views than primetime news is shocking to me. For more information and resources, go to my wife. Quitterjob.com Episode 584. Once again, tickets to the Seller Summit 2025 are now on sale over at sellers summit.com if you want to hang out in person in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton, then come to my event. Go to sellers summit.com and if you're interested in starting your own e commerce store, head on over to my wife quithherjob.com and sign up for my free 6 day mini course. Just type in your email and I'll send the course right away via email.