632: The $7 Billion App Nobody’s Talking About (But You’re Already Addicted To)

Summary

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The $7 Billion App Nobody’s Talking About (But You’re Already Addicted To)

Podcast: The My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast With Steve Chou
Episode: 632
Date: April 1, 2026
Host: Steve Chou
Guests/Co-Hosts: Brian, Jen, Sarah Chrisp

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the rapidly growing “micro drama” industry—a $7 billion phenomenon in China that’s beginning to infiltrate American TikTok feeds. The hosts break down how these bite-sized, addictive mini-series use a cleverly engineered micropayment model to get viewers hooked, drawing surprising parallels to both e-commerce and classic marketing psychology. The conversation explores the micro drama business model, monetization strategies, consumer behavior, and creative opportunities for e-commerce sellers and educators.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Are Micro Dramas?

• Definition: Short, serialized drama episodes (2-3 minutes each), mainly distributed vertically for mobile devices, often ending with dramatic cliffhangers.
• Business Model: Viewers are given a handful of free episodes, then must use an app—often funded through microtransactions—to continue.
  • Brian: “They give you, like, 10 episodes, but then they all end on a cliffhanger... And in order to watch the next one, you have to download this app where there’s all these little micropayments." [02:18]

2. Why Are Micro Dramas So Addictive?

• Cliffhanger Psychology: Each episode ends unresolved, playing into the human tendency for 'completionism'.
• Audience: Originally targeting women over 35-40, but genres and tropes quickly diversify, including nostalgia-driven kung fu series.
  • Jen: “All the cliffhangers are the same where it’s like, she’s not the maid, she’s a princess, and she’s your sister...” [02:37]
  • Brian: “It always ends when he’s, like, in trouble... you need to watch the next one to see if he actually beats the guy.” [03:12]

3. Economics & Scale of the Industry

• Stats from China: In 2025, drama app revenue exceeded $7 billion.

• Microtransaction Model: Viewers pay small amounts (e.g., 25-50 cents per episode), gradually adding up to $30-$40 per series.

• Production Cost: Series cost a few hundred thousand dollars to produce but have massive returns due to payment structure.

  • Brian: "Viewers end up spending 30 to 40 bucks because the payments come very gradually. It’s like, hey, 50 cents to watch the next episode... before you know it, you’ve spent a whole bunch of money." [04:39]

4. Comparison to Earlier Content Trends

• Parallel to Kindle Micro-stories: The model echoes how serial e-books used to tease a chapter or two before requiring purchase—except the payment is now more incremental and recurring.

  • Jen: “It’s like the new version of these Kindle Micro stories. But these are... so much more complex in the economics.” [03:29]

• Shift in Entertainment Consumption:

  • Bite-sized clips have normalized fragmented viewing (e.g., watching “Chicago Med” via clips rather than full episodes).
  • Jen: “I’ve never seen an episode of Chicago Med on TV, but I’ve probably seen 50 episodes... on my phone.” [07:34]

5. Marketing & E-Commerce Opportunities

• Product Placement: As micro drama apps mature, they’re integrating product placements and branded content, much like TV and movies.

  • Brian: “Once you get big in a drama, it’s kind of like has the same economics as a movie or television show where you can charge people to include your product.” [13:57]

• Multiple Revenue Streams: Monetization through both microtransactions (spectators) and product/influencer placements (advertisers).

  • Jen: “So there’s two revenue streams.” [14:10]

• Future Potential: Educators and creators can adapt this model—offering the first ‘tips’ or lessons free, with deeper content behind a paywall, using microtransactions and tokens for access.

  • Brian: “Let’s say you give like a really in-depth tutorial... you give a couple lessons for free... then you just end right when I’m about to tell you how to do it. And then I put the rest on a platform... it’s much easier to sell that than a $2,000 course.” [25:44]

6. Micropayments, Tokens, and Consumer Psychology

• Frictionless Spending: Using “coins” or tokens instead of direct dollars leverages the concept of “play money”, making each transaction feel insignificant—but with substantial cumulative spend.

  • Brian: “Once you have that app, they give you like $5 in credits... you get in this habit of like, throwing a nickel here, throwing a nickel there... before you know it, you spent like 10 bucks.” [21:50]
  • Jen: “It’s the same thing, right? It was free... but then... you had to pay money... clicking doesn’t feel real, doesn’t feel like real money. It’s why people pay 99 cents in candy crush...” [22:22]

• Behavior Training: Generation raised on games and in-app purchases is predisposed to this model.

  • Brian: “You’re training kids from a very young age to behave in this way, right? Click pay ad... It’s a very ingrained behavior.” [24:10]

7. Implications for Content Creators & Sellers

• Accessibility: No need for large budgets or studios; strong storytelling and consistent cliffhangers are key.

  • Jen: “It sounds like the same thing... you don’t have to get a big movie studio or TV... you can just create it yourself and start charging people.” [11:48]

• Easier Adoption: Shopify and other e-commerce platforms could be adapted to use tokens/gift cards for micro-content unlocking.

  • Brian: “This is just a Shopify store with gift cards... except you’re calling it tokens.” [31:16]

• Potential Risks: Fragmented learning experiences, possible consumer annoyance, and reputational considerations for info product sellers.

  • Brian: “Do you think people will get annoyed at this type of learning if it was broken up this way?” [38:28]
  • Jen: “Do people get annoyed in casinos when they put their money in and don’t win? ...The amount is so small that... I don’t know.” [38:37], [40:09]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Addictiveness & Cliffhangers:

  • Brian (on why he kept watching): “It always ends when he’s in trouble... and then you need to watch the next one to see if he actually beats the guy.” [03:15]

• On Paying for Microcontent:

  • Brian: “You’re basically nickel and diming your way to a lot of money.” [25:39]
  • Jen: “Your signature statement in every webinar you’ve done is ‘I’ll never nickel and dime you’!” [25:43]

• On Opportunity for Creators:

  • Jen: “If people paid $800 to hear that one tip... how mad are they going to be if they paid 10 cents to hear that same tip?” [39:28]

• On Shifting Attention Spans:

  • Brian: “Now it’s kind of like flipped, right? Because everyone wants like quick dopamine hits... you want to put together these quick little clips that are actionable with frequent payoffs.” [36:09]

• On Replicability:

  • Brian: “This would be really easy to set up, honestly... just breaking up individual tips, tag them really well, throw them up on a Shopify site... or any membership platform.” [35:05]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• What are Micro Dramas?
  [02:03] - [03:29]

• How the Micro-Pay Model Works
  [04:32] - [05:52]

• Market Size & China’s Example
  [04:39], [10:49] - [11:16]

• Parallels to Kindle Serials & Changing Viewer Habits
  [03:29] - [08:03]

• Product Placement & Two Revenue Streams
  [13:51] - [14:26]

• Applying the Model to Info Products
  [25:39] - [27:38], [31:16] - [32:30]

• The Psychology of Micropayments & Tokenization
  [21:50] - [24:44], [30:31] - [31:41]

• Is this the Future of Marketing?
  [18:25] - [20:34]

• Potential for Consumer Annoyance, Ethics, & Learning
  [38:28] - [41:47]

• Key Takeaways and Final Thoughts
  [41:03] - [41:47]

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Final Takeaways

• The micro drama business model is poised to become a major channel for consumer engagement, e-commerce marketing, and digital education in the U.S., just as it has in China.
• Cliffhangers, frictionless microtransactions, and “token” economies are central to the model’s psychological success.
• Marketers, educators, and small businesses can potentially leverage these mechanisms to drive both product sales and info product revenue—but need to balance value with user experience to avoid alienating their audience.
• The format encourages the creation of continuous, incremental content designed for maximum engagement and monetization—whether entertainment or practical tips.

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For more resources and to see experiments with this new business model, visit:
mywifequitterjob.com/Episode632

Seller Summit 2026 tickets:
sellersummit.com

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(This summary skips promotional content and focuses squarely on the substantive conversation.)

Transcript

[Sarah Chrisp]

Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to E commerce and online business. In this episode, we are diving into the $7 billion micro drama industry that's already taken over China and is quietly making its way into American TikTok feeds. We break down the sneaky micropayment business model that gets viewers spending 30 to 40 bucks without even realizing it. And why? The same psychology works just as well for selling e commerce products and as it does for cheesy kung fu movies. But before we begin, I want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale [e-mail] and if you sell physical products online, this is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical, step by step strategies you can actually use in your business right away. Every speaker I invite is in the trenches. People who are running their own e commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers and scaling real businesses. No corporate execs and no consultants. Also, I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate. We cap attendance and around 200 people so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We've sold out every single year for the past nine years and I expect this year to be no different. It's happening April 21st to 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and if you're doing over 250k or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for high level sellers. Right now, tickets are the cheapest they're ever going to be. So if you want in, go over to sellersummit.com and grab your ticket.

[Brian]

Now on to the show. Welcome back to the My Wife Quitter Job podcast.

[Sarah Chrisp]

Today we're going to be talking about

[Brian]

something that has been coming up in my TikTok feed very often and I've kind of gotten sucked in and so I dug a little bit deeper and it turns out that there's an industry behind this that is huge and it has ties to E commerce as well. And so we're going to be talking about micro dramas today.

[Jen]

I actually thought you were joking when you said you wanted to talk about this.

[Brian]

Okay, so first off, for everyone listening, a micro drama. I don't know if you guys notice, if you're on TikTok, you've probably gotten these already, but they're these like little miniature movies filmed vertically where they're like 60 episodes long and each episode is like, three minutes.

[Jen]

Mm.

[Brian]

And the idea is it's. It's really cheesy stuff, and it's really meant, I think, for women over the age of 35 or 40. But you watch and they give you, like, 10 episodes, but then they all end on a cliffhanger.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Brian]

And in order to watch the next one, you have to download this app where there's all these little micro payments.

[Jen]

Yes. And I feel like all the cliffhangers are the same where it's like, she's not the maid, she's a princess, and she's your sister. I feel like that's the cliffhanger. And then they're like, insert a coin.

[Brian]

Okay, first of all, those aren't the ones I'm watching.

[Jen]

Okay. That's what are the ones. That's. The ones that are on my feed.

[Brian]

You're going to laugh at me, but okay. I got sucked in. In this kung fu movie. It is so bad.

[Sarah Chrisp]

It is so bad because they like the words.

[Brian]

It's like, film. Like a traditional kung fu movie. Like, the lips don't match. Like the.

[Jen]

That's awesome.

[Brian]

And that's what I grew up with. Right, right.

[Sarah Chrisp]

And it's like this series of battles.

[Brian]

Like, there's this guy who. Who has no inner power or whatever. And, like. And there's a bunch of fights, but, like, it always ends when he's, like, in trouble or something.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Brian]

And then you need to watch the next one to see if he actually beats the guy.

[Jen]

So you know what these remind me of? And I didn't. So I have these in my feed, but I didn't realize until we just chatted that there was actually a hole economic ecosystem behind them. I just thought, so these. What these reminded me of. And I don't know if you remember this, but you remember when, like, Kindles first came out and you could basically read, like, chapters of suspense or romance, but then in order to, like, get the entire story, you had to buy the rest of the book, you know, Or. Or they would drip out. Like, you get chapter one, then chapter two, chapter three, and then eventually you had to pay to find out how it ends. And so this is what. Since I've been seeing these, that's what it reminds me of. It's like the new version of these Kindle Micro stories. But these are, to me, so much more complex in the economics. Right. Because the Kindle is pretty simple. Like, if you want to know the end, pay $99 and get the rest of the book. Right. And then it's like, the transaction's done. This is a lot more complicated.

[Brian]

Well, let's talk about the economics real quick before we talk about the kung fu movie that I'm. That.

[Jen]

Yeah. That you're currently binge watching.

[Brian]

So. So this drama app revenue exceeded $7 billion last year in China. All this stuff always starts in China and it's making its way into the United States. And people say that it costs about a couple hundred thousand dollars to make, but, like, viewers end up spending 30 to 40 bucks because the payments come very gradually. It's like, hey, 50 cents to watch the next episode or a quarter to watch the next episode. And before you know it, you know, by episode 60, you spent a whole bunch of money.

[Jen]

So how. How's the chew budget doing with this? How much have you spent?

[Brian]

I have not spent any. Because if you wait long enough, okay, they'll come out. But.

[Jen]

Oh, so that's another. Another feature. If you wait, then it's kind of like if you want to watch something on demand, you have to pay for, like, the Hulu subscription. But if you want to wait till the next episode or whatever, you can watch it on regular tv.

[Brian]

Well, that's. That's some of them. Unfortunately, my Kung Fu One does not fall under that. The Kung Fu One. You have to download an app where they bill you okay. In order to watch it. But, I mean, they're really addictive. Did you. Have you watched any?

[Jen]

I've not watched any. I've had not watched any to completion because I refused to.

[Sarah Chrisp]

Well, not to completion, but.

[Brian]

Have you gotten sucked in and watched like five episodes of one?

[Jen]

Yes, yes. But mine are always the same thing where they're treating the one girl really badly. And it's like, you know, it's like, but you don't really know who I am. And it, you know, it's all that stuff, which I'm like, we're going to tell her she's actually a princess of some country that they've made up. And, you know, but, yeah, so I. But I never get to the end, and then I get really angry. And I was like, I just wasted like 12 minutes, you know, clicking through to try to find the next episode. And then sometimes when I'm really desperate, I will search to see if someone's like, pirated an episode and put it on TikTok, like, if I think there's a twist or a cliffhanger. So anyway. Yes. But you know, what's interesting is that I think here's why this works. Well, it works for A lot of reasons. But one of the reasons why I think it works is, I don't know if you've noticed this, but a lot of, like, regular shows that you can get on tv, like Grey's Anatomy or there's another hospital one, Chicago Med, or something like that, right? Like, they play clips of the, like, people pirate. I guess they pirate them, I don't know, because it's not like the Chicago Med channel, right? There are clips of Chicago Med of like, scenes, right? So the pregnant lady comes in and she's actually not pregnant. She's having, like a fake pregnancy, right? And so that part of the show is maybe 15 minutes of the storyline. So you can watch that part of the show in 60 to second to like two minute increments. And then if you click through to that person's profile, you can watch the next one and the next one and the next one, and then all of a sudden you don't get it anymore. Right? And that's been happening for a lot of, like, mainstream shows. So I think people are starting to view things this way, right? Like, I've never seen an episode of Chicago Med on TV, but I've probably seen 50 episodes of Chicago Med on my phone, you know? So I think it works in part because people are starting to view things this way. It's like very normal to watch things in these little increments, which is so weird to me because it feels very choppy and disjointed.

[Brian]

I mean, there's at least five movies that I actually decided to watch in full because I saw a whole bunch of clips on TikTok. Yeah, it's like the new movie marketing.

[Jen]

Yeah, yeah. So it definitely works. But this is so interesting because the. The entire. It's not like these. This. Maybe it is, but it sounds like this kung fu movie. You can't just go on Netflix and watch it if you wanted to. The only way to watch it is to pay for this app.

[Brian]

Okay. So just to be clear and. And just in case you guys are listening and you don't know how it works, the ones that I'm talking about actually is you see this clip, but it's really just an ad for an app. Right. And so you download this app and then you have the option of doing these micro payments to get all the episodes.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

So it's really just an app ad on TikTok. Right.

[Jen]

Because the movie or the ad is

[Brian]

the movie is the clip of the movie. Right, Right. Because you can't take micropayments, obviously. On TikTok itself.

[Jen]

Right.

[Brian]

And then every episode ends in a cliffhanger. Right? Sometimes it ends. And this will piss me off. Sometimes it ends, like, mid sentence. Oh, right.

[Jen]

Okay, okay.

[Brian]

My wife's a sucker for this too. Like, she's a sucker for the ones where, like, the woman is, like, really ugly, but she's, like. She's like, one haircut and, like, one grooming away from, like, being beautiful.

[Jen]

Yes. It's the. What is it? Princess Diaries or what? Whatever.

[Brian]

Right. And the click cliffhanger is always her getting a makeover, but you don't get to see what she actually looks like.

[Jen]

Yes. And she's always wearing, like, clothes that are six sizes too big, and it's always frumpy. And then she goes, yeah, it's the same thing. But okay, so do we have a number of, like, how many people have are downloading these apps?

[Sarah Chrisp]

Have you ever wondered how much your

[Brian]

business is actually worth?

[Sarah Chrisp]

Now?

[Brian]

I sold one of my businesses through Quiet Light.

[Sarah Chrisp]

And honestly, just getting that initial valuation changed everything for me. Not because of that number itself, but because of what came with it.

[Brian]

My advisor walked me through exactly what

[Sarah Chrisp]

buyers would be looking for, how I needed to restructure my accounting, what documentation I was missing, the gaps in my financials that might kill a deal before it even starts, and stuff that I

[Brian]

really had no idea that mattered when it came to selling a business.

[Sarah Chrisp]

And here's the thing. I wasn't even ready to sell yet. But knowing what I needed to fix meant that I could actually start preparing.

[Brian]

And I now had a roadmap.

[Sarah Chrisp]

Everyone at Quiet Light has built or sold businesses themselves, so my advisor told me what needed to change. It was actually coming from real experience, sitting across from buyers. And by the time I was ready, everything was positioned right, and we attracted serious buyers. So if you've been thinking about selling someday, even if that day feels way far off, just getting a free valuation from Quiet Light will make a huge difference. You'll learn what you need to fix right now so you're not scrambling later. And if you're interested, go over to

[Brian]

Quiet Light dot com. Well, I mean, this is big in China right now, and so I only have numbers for China, but 7 billion is a lot. And everything in the US usually lags China by, like, a year or two.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And so. And the fact that even me getting sucked in this stupid kung fu movie. Maybe it's because I grew up with kung fu movies.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

That I started watching them, but there's a lot of implications here. And it Actually gave me a bunch of ideas like you don't need to spend 100k. Like there's creators that I've watched that do put together these series, you know, that, that I always just kind of been watch, binge watch.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And they could get on this app as well. I'm trying to figure out what the app is called. I think it's called like Real Shorts or something like that. I should look it up and put it in the show notes. But the theory here is you could create your own and then monetize these little series as well. And they don't have to be like the production value doesn't have to be that great. Right. You just need to be really good at storytelling.

[Jen]

So this sort of seems like what YouTube did for musicians and Spotify did for musicians. Right. Like it used to be that you had to get with a record label, sign a contract, be beholden for the rest of your life, you know, to be able to make music. But now people can just make content online, playing an instrument or singing or whatever and they can. It sounds like the same thing. Like you don't have to get a big movie studio to pick up your idea or a tv. You can just create it yourself and start charging people. As long as it's a good enough story. But honestly, I don't think the stories are that good.

[Brian]

The stories, well, this kung fu movie one is compelling because he's got to beat this guy. He's like. And there's like 10, 10, 10 kung fu experts on this ladder that he must be to prove to his family that he is deserving.

[Jen]

Okay, but do you think that's a great storyline? Seriously?

[Brian]

No, but it reminds me of my childhood.

[Jen]

Yeah. So it's nostalgia.

[Brian]

Yeah. Okay, well, okay, so there's this guy I follow and I'm sure you've watched some of his stuff. His name is Ray William Johnson.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Brian]

He always tells like stories of crime, you know, real stories of crime.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And he's like a really good storyteller. I was thinking like if he told us like really long 30 minute story and he broke it up into clips and then gave like the first 10

[Sarah Chrisp]

out for free and then.

[Brian]

And then charged for the rest. He can make a killing doing this.

[Jen]

No pun intended.

[Brian]

Yes.

[Sarah Chrisp]

Now the only problem I have with this, okay.

[Brian]

Is that like it's so empty, I guess, meaning, like it's just like a colossal waste of time. But then again, I guess so is Netflix, right? Yeah.

[Jen]

I mean, it's the same. It's just entertainment.

[Brian]

Yeah, exactly. Well, okay, so here's what actually got me interested in this. Okay. There's a lot of implications here for marketing as well. So this is still in its infancy, but there's some micro movies, micro dramas which I actually started watching for research just for the record.

[Jen]

Yes, of course.

[Brian]

Where they'll somehow there's this like product that they keep using.

[Jen]

Oh yes.

[Brian]

Or drinking. And so once you get big in a drama, it's kind of like has the same economics as a movie or television show where you can actually charge people to include your product in the micro drama.

[Jen]

So there's two revenue streams.

[Brian]

Two revenue streams. But. Right, so if you. It's the same as having like a YouTube channel except it's like a storytelling one where you're getting money instead of going to the Hollywood studios, you're making your own little one like your own little movie.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Brian]

Right. And you're getting people to incrementally, you're chopping it up and making increment people incrementally pay. And you're charging for advertising as well.

[Jen]

So as an advertiser. Right. So let's just say we're watching the, we're watching the microdrama where the ugly girl becomes beautiful. Right? Yes.

[Sarah Chrisp]

I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store. I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in E commerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be [e-mail] free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I'll send

[Brian]

you the course right away.

[Sarah Chrisp]

Once again, that's mywifequitterjob.com free.

[Brian]

Now back to the show.

[Jen]

Is Bumblebee linens going to have a hanky placement? And like what, like what's the.

[Brian]

Okay, so for that example, right. For that example, like the makeover could be like I'm using, you know, Chanel number five.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

You know, whatever.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Brian]

Or I'm using this Korean beauty cream. This is why my wife likes it. She's really into Korean beauty right now.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

So she'll, she'll be watching one of these, she'll be like, hey wait, what

[Sarah Chrisp]

was that cream that they're using?

[Brian]

Okay. And then you could probably have like a. Maybe even a buy button or something.

[Jen]

So that was my next question in. Because I haven't. I haven't seen. I've seen all the microdermas. I haven't really either seen or noticed the product placement. Maybe it's already there and I just haven't been paying enough attention. But how do people buy, right? So they're doing the makeover. There's the skin cream. Jen's like, oh, I need to try this because look how beautiful it made her. Right? And is there a way to buy it right there, like on TikTok shop where you kind of click through them?

[Brian]

So. So that's the problem right now. In theory you could do that, but like the goal of all these micro dramas right now is to get you to download their special app, right? In order to drip out the content. As far as I can tell, there is no buy buttons on the app itself. So I think maybe. Here's what's weird. In that Kung Fu movie series, it's the one I'm actively watching. Different episodes have different ads.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Brian]

So for example, one will go straight to the. To the app click, and then a different one will go to some other page that tries to sell you on other stuff. So different clips that they're releasing for free can have different, you know, calls to action.

[Jen]

So I feel like it's probably a matter of time before there is just sort of a click to buy because I'm seeing it more and more. So I have. I think you have YouTube TV too, right?

[Brian]

I do.

[Jen]

To watch regular TV. Have you noticed that, like, when commercials come on, there's almost always a button to click to. It's. It's usually on drugs like pharmaceuticals, but I don't know, I don't even.

[Brian]

Get me started on that. You should see the ads I get now that I.

[Jen]

All the ads I ever get on on YouTube TV are pharma. Like, I didn't know you could have this many diseases.

[Brian]

Well, mine is like hair loss and erectile dysfunction because I'm at that age now, right.

[Jen]

So I get. I get a lot of eczema ads, which I think is funny because I'm like, I've never really had any skin issues, but apparently they think differently. So I feel like it's probably a matter of time before that becomes something that's very normalized, even within the microdramas. So as I just am so interested in this as a seller. Right? Because I think we were just chatting about meta ads before we started recording and how a lot of people are struggling right now with ads. So people are looking for new ways to showcase their products, talk about their products, pay to promote their products. Is this going to be a viable option? I mean, it's working for Jen, but does it work for. Is this, is this overall working or is it going to work? I guess it hasn't really started yet.

[Brian]

Well, I don't think about this in terms of Meta ads. I guess you could, I mean, because people don't really watch these short films. At least I don't. Unlike Meta or Instagram. Right. As far as I can tell, this is only a TikTok thing right now.

[Jen]

No, no, no, I'm saying for like, for Bumblebee. Let's just say your ads went in the toilet and you're like, I need to find other sources. Right? I need to find other channels. Is this going to be something where it is as impactful as meta ads have been for, for businesses, Right. Where like having your product in a micro drama is going to actually drive sales and not just, I think like traditional TV advertising where it's like, you know, Coca Cola doesn't really need to advertise ever again. Neither does Nike. Right? But they do because they want to constantly stay top of mind. They want to showcase new products, talk about brand values, all those things. Right. So is this going to be something where advertisers kind of. It becomes another just accepted channel, right? Where it's like, well, we do, we, we run this ad and we do Google Ads and we do this and we have our stuff in micro dramas kind of thing.

[Brian]

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah, it's still early. So actually here's some other numbers. Drama Box is a platform that reportedly did over 120 million in its recent quarter. And it's profitable.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Brian]

Real Shorts, I think is the one I was talking about. They sell virtual coins that you can use for transactions and pay for episodes inside the app. That one's more digital product commerce as opposed to physical. But again, this is all kind of new. We're always like a year or two behind China. So the fact that this is working in China implies that it's coming over here. Because you can sponsor like the entire episode of a mini drama, right? Yeah, it's kind of like how influencers work today. Like people can pay me to do like a dedicated TikTok, right? Or a short. I could create a dedicated one, but instead I'll be holding up, you know, hair cream, I don't know, or something. Something like that. Yeah.

[Jen]

So I wonder. So another thing I think about is. And I don't know, do you. Are you an NFL? Do you watch the NFL?

[Brian]

Of course.

[Jen]

Okay, well, I know you got the 49ers, but one of the things that I've seen all year with the NFL is that people are really getting irritated that you have to have, like, 20 subscriptions to watch football now. Right. It used to be that you buy. Bought Sunday ticket, right? Which is. It was expensive, several hundred dollars. Right. And you could get all the games. But now it's like, well, Thursday night games are on Prime. You know, this game's on Peacock. This game's. You know, and so it's like people were frustrated that they couldn't just watch football. Right. And there was like, a lot, like, people are on Twitter complaining they're on, you know, all the other social platform or X. Sorry, platforms. So I wonder if people are going to start getting irritated that it's like, well, here's just one more thing that I have to pay for to watch what I'm interested in watching. Right? Because, I mean, I can't even tell you, like, how many things I'm probably have subscriptions for because, like, my kids want to watch a certain. Just like, you've got Apple TV and Hulu and Peacock and Netflix and Amazon prime, and, you know, it's just. It's never ending.

[Brian]

All right, so let me tell you why this works, okay? Once you have that app and let's say they give you like $5 in credits or something.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Brian]

Let's say each episode is only like a nickel.

[Jen]

Okay?

[Brian]

Right. And so you get your whole first series and you pay, like, a couple bucks.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

But it's not really your money, but you get in this habit of like, throwing a nickel here, throwing a nickel there.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And then you end up finding this kung fu series that, you know, I've already done this. You know, I really wanted to see what, you know, how it ends. So you just throw a couple nickels, and before you know it, you spent like 10 bucks.

[Jen]

It reminds me of when my kids were little. And what was the. Roadblocks. Roadblocks. I don't know how to say. It came out and it was like, it was free. You could play it. Right. It was the kids building game. But then, like, in order to get special building things, right. For your little city that you made, you had to pay money. Right. And so, like, all of a sudden, one day I got like an itunes bill for, you know, like, $72. Right. Or something like that where one of my kids had just like click, click, click, click. This is before, like this is before they had to put all these safeguards on it, right? Because when it was, when it was early, they were just like, oh yeah, it hooks into your itunes account. And like when your itunes account is set with a credit card, you can just buy whatever you want. It's the same thing, right? You download the app, there is a payment, you know, processor in there, right. So just clicking it doesn't feel real, like, doesn't feel like real money. It's why people pay 99 cents in candy crush to get, you know, a power up or whatever. So I mean I can see it working because you know, I'm sure when my kid did it like they were like, oh, I didn't like, they didn't have really any idea that it was like real money, right. Because they were little. But I can see people thinking like, oh, it's just a nickel. It's just 10 cents. I'm, you know, and then the next thing you know, especially at like three minute increments, it's like a slot machine. You've spent $200.

[Brian]

So my buddy, he always balks when it comes to buying games. Like an $80 game or something. He's like, oh no, I'm not gonna pay 80 bucks for that. But he got hooked on Pokemon Go. I don't know if you remember that game.

[Jen]

It's, people are still playing it. My son still plays it, but he

[Brian]

spent over a couple hundred bucks on that game alone. On these little add ons, right?

[Jen]

Yes.

[Brian]

That you can sprinkle here and there that are just like 99 cents here, 99 cents there. Same principle and it's pretty ingenious.

[Jen]

Yeah. Well, the good thing for whoever brings us to the States is that you're training kids from a very young age to like behave in this way, right? Like click pay ad. Click pay ad. I know for my kids, some of my kids, like when they were younger they wanted like what were they Microsoft? Is it Steam gift cards. Right. Which gives you money into your Microsoft account to game. It's, it's a very ingrained behavior right now, especially for younger people, right. Because that's what they've been doing their whole lives. They don't know any different.

[Brian]

So this is the real reason that got me excited about all this. It's, it's not like the kung fu movies and the empty whatever. I think that all the content that you put out, let's say you, you do teaching content Mm. Like, like what I do. And I'm not suggesting that I'm gonna try. I don't know, maybe I'll try this as an experiment just for fun, just for the content, right? But let's say you give like a really in depth tutorial on how to launch a product, let's say, right? And so you give like a lesson. You give like a couple lessons for free, and then the rest of them, you kind of just end right when I'm about to tell you how to do it. And then I put all this, this whole tutorial on a platform like real short or maybe not the other one, because that one's strictly for dramas. But then, you know, it's much easier to sell that than it is like a couple thousand dollar course.

[Jen]

Right.

[Brian]

And so you're basically nickel and diming your way to a lot of money.

[Jen]

Okay, so this got you excited and yet you're like signature statement in every webinar you've ever done is I'll never nickel and dime you.

[Brian]

Yeah, just this business model fascinates me.

[Jen]

Okay, okay.

[Brian]

And then what? Here's the, here's the good part. So once you have this audience of people that are throwing you nickels, then I bet all of the e commerce companies will come to me and say, hey, can I sponsor one episode of one of your lessons?

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Right. And be like, okay, yeah, that'll be $500 or thousand dollars or whatever.

[Jen]

Right?

[Brian]

And it's just like an easier way to sell stuff.

[Jen]

So when are we doing it?

[Brian]

Are you serious? You want to try it?

[Jen]

I don't know. I kind of do.

[Brian]

And I see this right now, especially because people don't have that much money right now. Like they don't have like a huge chunk of money, but they do have like 50 cents here, 99 cents there.

[Jen]

Yes, right.

[Brian]

And they don't want to commit to some large purchase. And this is why. This is like so ingenious. Well, it's annoying too though. I mean, we can talk about that.

[Jen]

Yeah. So how do you. I guess that's the question is so it, it is very easy for people to spend. It's. It's like why Starbucks is still packed, right? Even though the economy is kind of crappy right now. Like people's. People think like, oh, I can't, you know, I can't give up on my four dollar coffee, right? Like I've got a. It's like just part of it's ingrained in, like their behavior. People are still spending money here and there on Things. So I feel like, yeah, it would be really easy to get somebody hooked. And then, oh, well, if you want the next lesson, it's 50. Like 50 cents. Like, who isn't doing that? Just because, like, well, for 50. For 50 cents, I might as well see what it is. Right?

[Brian]

Like, yeah, in the teaching space, it would just be like one tip.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

One nugget.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

So you have frame joint. Yeah.

[Jen]

So it's so funny that we're having this conversation because a couple weeks ago in office hours, there was a talk about this course and it was like AI. Was it AI and YouTube or something with AI, and it was only $97. And in the course world, that's really cheap.

[Brian]

Yes.

[Jen]

And so it got brought into my mastermind group, like, hey, I'm thinking about signing up for this course. Has anyone heard of it? Blah, blah, blah. And everyone's commenting the same thing. 90 bucks. Is it. Is it anything? Right. And so at 97, it gives you a little more pause. Right. So my thought is, though, if it's 50 cents, are people going to be like, oh, 50 cents, it's probably garbage. Or is it because it's 50 cents? It's like, well, who cares if it's garbage, it's 50 cents. And then if it's not garbage, it's like you're just content. You're perpetuating the.

[Brian]

Well, you wouldn't sell. You would give away like five lessons for free.

[Jen]

Right.

[Brian]

And then this. And then they'd all be in a logical progression. And the sixth one, it'd be 50 cents. Yeah. And it'd just be like a series of little micro tips.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Right. I don't know. I think it would work really well.

[Jen]

So is the only way to do this that the app that you mentioned?

[Brian]

Well, I mean, you could write your own with Vibe coding. It's actually not a hard. Of course you can. Hold on.

[Jen]

But for regular people, what could they do?

[Brian]

It's not. It's not mainstream yet, so I don't think there's any real app that. That does this. Yeah. Outside of the drama. Like, you can pay for more.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Which I guess is the same thing here. Right? Like, you would just lock the tips. Yeah, I guess you could use. The problem is people are going to those sites to watch dramas right now. But, I mean, there's no reason why this wouldn't work on one of those platforms.

[Jen]

Well, because. But the drama starts on TikTok. Like, the ad is on TikTok to get people to do it. So, like, the the first visual is not for people already inside the app. It's for people not using the app, have no idea what it is. Probably they're seeing it on TikTok. They watch the first one. So let's just say. Let's just say TikTok, we'll use that. So the first E commerce tip is on TikTok, right? Like, so you make a TikTok, you give an E commerce tip, then you make. You cliffhang it. Right. Then you make a second TikTok. Once again tip, Cliffhang, Right. Like, you don't give the full. Maybe you give. You finish tip one, you get into tip two. Don't give tip two. Third video, same thing. Give tip two, go into tip three, don't give it. Fourth video, same thing, fourth video. You don't get the tip. Right. Like, and then it's like, download, pay, and I'll give you tip four.

[Brian]

Yeah, yeah. I think an easier way to do this would just be to just take them to a website where you can watch them. Like, you don't need an app. Like, getting someone to install an app is really difficult.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

But if it automatically takes you to this video where it's, you know, it's blacked out, for example.

[Jen]

Yes. I love it.

[Brian]

You click a button and then out comes the credit card thing. Buy like a hundred tokens. Actually, that's the other genius thing. Right.

[Sarah Chrisp]

You're buying.

[Jen]

Oh, yes. You're buying tokens. It's not real money. Yes.

[Brian]

And so you can only buy tokens in increments of five bucks. So you buy five bucks and then you just spend it on which lessons that you want and you're out of there.

[Jen]

So does that technology already exist for, like, regular people today?

[Brian]

Well, all it is is a payment thing.

[Jen]

It's just an E commerce token part, though. Like, so I'm trying to. I'm like, actually, because I know we have people that. Listen, we'll do. We'll want to set this up tomorrow. Right. So the first part is. Yes, obviously we have payment processors. We can do that. But how do you turn the payment into tokens? That's possible because, like, everybody does it with AI Stuff is all in tokens.

[Brian]

Okay, think about this. This is just a Shopify store with gift cards that.

[Jen]

Okay, Right. Except you're calling it tokens.

[Brian]

You're calling it tokens instead of dollars. Right. And so you spend your gift card on whatever's in the portfolio. Like, each Shopify product could just be an episode. Right.

[Jen]

But priced in tokens and not Money

[Brian]

price and tokens and not money.

[Jen]

Yeah, that's the other key.

[Brian]

Yeah. Yeah. Tokens is key.

[Jen]

Yeah, Yeah, I like it.

[Brian]

So this is all very doable. Yeah, it'd be. It'd be kind of fun to. Because then. Okay, here's the question I always get asked about my class. Like, I don't need all the modules. Can you send them? Send. Sell them to me piecemeal.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Sarah Chrisp]

Well, how about I nickel and die?

[Jen]

I mean, I don't know. I'm.

[Brian]

Well, that was just.

[Jen]

I'm kind of liking it. Go on.

[Brian]

Well, okay, so let's say you don't want to do that and you don't teach or whatever. Yeah. Instead of just putting out free content on Tick Tock.

[Jen]

Right.

[Brian]

Why not just do this? You're still giving value. Yeah. It's kind of like my six day mini course. Right. I give out a lot of value. You get those 10 videos.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And then you decide whether you want to get the class or not.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Or participate. This is the same thing, really. On a difference. Like, I couldn't throw out that six day mini course on Tick Tock because they're too long. But instead if I broke it up into very small 60 second nuggets and just put them out there and in like maybe one or two of the best nuggets, I have it direct over, like, I'll Pay for ads. TikTok ads or something like that. Directed over to a landing page.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Where they can pick and choose which tips they want to learn. I don't know. I think it would work.

[Jen]

Yeah. I think, I think what. So I think two keys to making it work better are the token aspect of it. Right. So not. Not attaching it to real money as well as the cliffhanger coming in. Right. Where it's like, I'm gonna give you a reason to. Because, like, why else in the world when I am like always trying to like, maximize my efficiency and like, be super productive, am I hunting all over TikTok for like the next. The next segment of. Of a show that actually exists already? Like, like Chicago Med. Right. It's not even. Like, I couldn't just watch that Chicago Med episode probably on Netflix or something. But no, I'm. I'm going through 20 profiles on TikTok, trying to find the next one.

[Brian]

I like how you're using Chicago Med as your example. When I know you really watch like Real Housewives or whatever, you're really hunting for the next house.

[Jen]

I'm actually really into the medical dramas on TikTok right now. I don't know why because I used to, I used to watch them like 30 years ago, like when er, George Clooney, er, was out. But yeah, I don't, I don't. I kind of like the I kind. Okay, so taking a hard left turn here. How can we do this? Okay. Okay, I'm getting excited. Okay, we don't have much longer. How do we do this as a test? How do we create this? How do we set this up and do it as a test to shell sell people but also sell people in the test?

[Brian]

What do you mean sell people physical products or. What do you mean?

[Jen]

No, like how do we do info products, which is what we already do. Right. We sell info products. So how do we set this up to do it? How do we turn our six day mini course into 60 second nuggets with cliffhangers, then push people into buying more 60 to 3 minute, let's just say segments, right. Where we literally teach one thing. Right.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Where they come in, but then we also sell how we did it.

[Brian]

This would be really easy to set up, honestly.

[Jen]

You know what I'm saying?

[Sarah Chrisp]

Yeah, you just, you're just breaking up

[Brian]

individual tips and then you just have to make sure you tag them really well.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And then you just throw them up on a. I wouldn't use Shopify, but like you could throw it up on a Shopify site.

[Jen]

Right.

[Brian]

Or membership site. Any membership site will work. Membership plugin on WordPress and you just give out really good tips for free on TikTok and then just steer them over to this whole array. It could be categorized where you just pay a buck to learn this, pay a buck to learn that. Very easy with tokens. Very easy to do. Okay, so before we get off in the weeds, I just kind of wanted to talk about like what's. Did you listen to that Joe Rogan episode with Ben Affleck and Matt Damon?

[Jen]

I've only seen clips of it, but once again I've seen clips.

[Brian]

Okay, so they were complaining that, you know, Hollywood is, is doing it all wrong now. Like back in the day you could tell stories and whatnot, but now like everyone has such short attention spans that you need to hit them quick.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

So the whole model is changing is basically what the, the, the gist of that episode was. Like in the old days, the instinct was to overspend on a big production, market it like crazy and then make a ton of money. Yeah. Now it's kind of like flipped. Right. Because everyone wants like quick dopamine hits, right?

[Jen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian]

And so you want to put together these quick little clips that are actionable with frequent payoffs. So it's like the opposite of the way it was before.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And that's where things are going, unfortunately. Ben Affleck and what they were complaining about is they just released this Netflix episode.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Brian]

Or Netflix movie, right?

[Jen]

Yeah. They're everywhere right now.

[Brian]

And the director was like, you need like hard hitting action from the start and throughout, you know, to keep someone's attention span. Whereas before you could spend some time building up the characters and everything. Before, yeah. These days I don't know if you do this, but sometimes when I'm watching Netflix, I'll have my phone out and I'm like checking email or something during the movie. That's the problem now.

[Jen]

So I noticed this because Brian is a movie guy, right? He loves, he loves going to the movies, right. We have the like AMC pass or whatever. It's actually not a bad deal. But anyway, we see. I see. I've seen more movies in the last four years than I have in my entire life put together, right. But what I've noticed is I don't like action movies. Like, I'm. I'm not super into like, I already have like enough anxiety. I don't like going to a movie where I may have anxiety for two hours. So I want to see stories, right? I want to see like love stories or even like comedies, even documentaries. I don't care. I just don't want, like, everyone dies, right? There are no movies where everyone doesn't die. Like I was looking last week, I was like, oh, we should go see a movie this week, right? There was nothing, there was nothing to see that wasn't like absolute action horror, you know, from, from scene one to scene end of, you know, guns ablazing kind of thing. So anyway, yeah, I mean, they're totally right. Like no one's making those movies. But they're all on Tick tock, right? They're all on tick tock with the girl getting the makeover and the, you know, she's really a princess and she's, you know, in love with her brother. Who knows what it is, right? But it's like they're all, they're all being made there now.

[Sarah Chrisp]

Do you think people will get annoyed

[Brian]

if we, if we did something like this? I know, for an experiment, be fun. But do you think people would get annoyed at this type of learning if it was broken up this way?

[Jen]

I feel like, do people get annoyed in casinos when they Put their money in and don't win. Like, yes, of course people are going to get annoyed. But did the casino people care?

[Brian]

No. Yeah, but this is different because it also reflects on your reputation, right?

[Jen]

So I.

[Brian]

So it's one thing to put out a microdrama where there's no human really attached to it, right? It's all make believe. But it's another to release lessons this

[Jen]

way, if you don't like it, don't watch it. I mean, like, so who was it John Acup that said people someone complained about, like, one of the webinars that he had. And he's like, I'm happy to refund your money for the free. Right? So like, if someone. Now if someone's. If someone feels. Here's the thing. If. How many times do we hear this at seller Summit where people will say, I. This one thing that you said, right? This one thing that I learned, right? I got this. I remember, I think it was Charles said when I explained how to. To like, tag people in Klaviyo without having to send them to forms like, automatically. Like, I think that was it. It might have been something different. But like, I had a couple people when I shared that tip that they were like, that was worth coming to the event, right? So if people paid $800 to hear that one tip, how mad are they going to be if they paid 10 cents to hear that same tip? Right. Or similar type tip? I mean, you want me to refund your dimensions? They even make dimes anymore. Are they getting obsolete too? Is it like

[Brian]

in this method? Like, it's tokens.

[Jen]

It's a token.

[Brian]

Sure. Refund you your tokens. Big whoop, right?

[Jen]

I. I feel like the, the amount is so small that, like, I don't know.

[Brian]

Yeah. I mean, 99 cents. Yeah.

[Jen]

How often do you complain at your value meal?

[Brian]

It's true.

[Jen]

I don't know. I mean, I. So I think it would be really interesting to do it. And see, here's the other thing. And this is where I think people will get. This is where people will struggle. Is that. Yes, this is great. But it has to be interesting enough to get an audience to then have enough people watching it to want to click through and learn more. Right? And that's where people are going to have a hard time because that's where

[Brian]

ads come in, right?

[Jen]

Yeah, but I mean, I think. But that's usually when people struggle. It's. They can't get enough eyeballs on what they're doing. So I think if it's good enough.

[Brian]

Yeah. I mean, if you already have. Well, okay, so here's the key takeaway for this episode. Right.

[Jen]

Okay. That we're gonna do this. You can join.

[Brian]

You don't want to make like just shorter videos. You want to make them continuous.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Brian]

Right. And they can just be frequent, continuous and unresolved, meaning everything ends on a cliffhanger. So you'll actually go through and search for the next lesson, Right?

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And then once you've established that, then maybe you can try some of these techniques that we've just talked about.

[Jen]

For sure. And I think even if you take away one thing, you should be making your videos like that anyway, whether you're going to attach any sort of monetary spend behind it or not.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Sarah Chrisp]

Hope you enjoyed this episode. Especially if you sell info products, this could be a great way to generate more sales. For more information and resources, go over to mywifequiterjob.com Episode 632 and once again, tickets to Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com if you want to hang out in person in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton of then come to my event, go to sellersummit.

[Brian]

Com.