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639: She Built A 6-Figure Cat Toy Business Because Someone Annoyed Her On IG With Dawn LaFontaine
00:46:05
In this episode, I sit down with Dawn LaFontaine, a student in my create a profitable online store course, a former stay-at-home mom who couldn't get hired anywhere after 27 years out of the workforce and decided to build her own business selling cat t...
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e commerce and online business. In this episode, I sit down with Dawn LaFontaine, a student in my Create a Profitable Online Store course. A former stay at home mom who couldn't get hired anywhere after 27 years out of the workforce and decided to build her own business selling cat toys instead. Dawn will walk us through the painful years she spent trying to make her original cardboard cat house product work, the accidental Instagram moment that led her to a product that actually took off, and her wholesale outreach strategy that closes at 50% without ads. But before we begin, I just wanted to take a second to mention that I have a free e commerce community that I'm incredibly proud of and would love for you to be a part of. It is a place where real sellers come together to share wins, troubleshoot problems, and support each other through the ups and downs of building an online business. You can join completely free over@mywifequarterjob.com community and I would love to see you there. That's mywifequitterjob.com community. Now onto the show. Welcome back to the My Wife Quitter Job podcast. Today I'm thrilled to have Don LaFontaine back on the show. Now, dawn is a student in my Create a Profitable Online Store course, and she was a finalist in a game show that I ran years ago called the 5 Minute Pitch, where we gave away $50,000 in cash to the winning business. Now she runs an amazing cat products company called the Cat is in the Box, which has been featured in Parade.com, nBC News, the Boston Globe, U.S. news and World Report, a whole bunch of prestigious publications. Now, if you look at her success today, you might think that everything with her business went smoothly. But I've chatted with dawn on several occasions, and I know that she's had to overcome many struggles with her products over the years. So in this episode, we're going to break down her journey, all of her triumphs and her setbacks, and how she's managed to bootstrap a successful business for cats. And with that, welcome back. Don, how are you?
- [02:04]
B
Well, very good. Steve, thanks so much for having me on again. It's always a pleasure to talk to you.
- [02:10]
A
It is. And I know it's been a while since we last spoke and because the episode that we recorded, I think that was years ago, right? So long ago. Just please refresh the audience about your products, your business, and how you came
- [02:23]
B
up with the idea Right. So my, my company is Cat in the Box. I actually started the business after my second kid went off to college. I had been a stay at home mother for 23 years. Yikes. My husband had just been laid off from his job that he'd had for 15 years. I couldn't, you know, I was applying for jobs, I couldn't get a job. And I started thinking that if I needed to, you know, if I was going to have a working future, that I, you know, I needed to make one for myself. And coincidentally, I was taking my mother's cats to, to her cat sitter with her. And I was looking around her living room, which was just filled with, you know, old Amazon boxes, and I, it made me think, you know, I've already, I'm an animal lover. I've had cats. I know that they love boxes. But it made me think, you know, why do people put up with, you know, dirty, ugly shipping boxes in their house? Why not something a little bit, you know, a little fun, a little interesting to look at? That's how I started the business.
- [03:18]
A
Yeah. And I remember. So this is all bootstrapped, right? Completely, completely bootstrapped. And then just some quick facts for the audience. How much did you spend to start this business?
- [03:29]
B
I spent a few thousand dollars at the beginning just to buy the capital equipment that I needed to make the products that I had in mind. They're just, it's really expensive equipment that you need to, to produce these weird shapes of cardboard that I use to make the boxes.
- [03:47]
A
I'll put some photos of her products in the show notes along with her URL. You guys should check out her site. The products are pretty amazing. Now, last time we spoke, you said you don't have cats. Is that still the case?
- [03:58]
B
I do do a lot of cat fostering. Mostly I foster litters of kittens that don't have mothers. So I have dogs, too. It's a little hard if you have cats of your own and you want to foster because, you know, they can catch diseases from, you know, from. And believe me, these kittens have come with all kinds of fun parasites. So, so you really, it's really hard to foster if you have cats of your own. And I really, really want to do the fostering.
- [04:27]
A
Okay. Okay. So you do have cats to test your products on and everything.
- [04:31]
B
Well, to play with.
- [04:35]
A
All right, so last time we spoke, and this is a long time ago, I kind of had to refer to some of my notes. We had talked about, like, some of the challenging economics of making these cat House to make like the margins work. And I notice you have a bunch of new products on your site too. So just walk me through what's happened, how you dealt with those margins and those problems that you've had.
- [04:55]
B
And then we could talk about this more too. But I did have to redesign my product several times based on, you know, factors that were outside of my control or even outside of my ability to anticipate them. And so we could talk about that. But the biggest pivot of all was really changing the type of products that I sell. And I really felt like with the cardboard box products, and, you know, this even from when we, you may not remember, but from five minute pitch, one of the criticisms of the judges was always, you know, like, how many did you sell? Well, that, you know, you, you didn't sell, you know, 50,000 of them. Like, like the winner did actually of products. And they weren't wrong about that. And it was a, it felt like a little bit of a Sisyphusian, you know, effort to sell these products. And it finally occurred to me that maybe I needed to sell something different. And so I did pivot about two years ago to these other products. And they're, I mean, they're so easy to sell. So. And it made me really think that, you know, you can't sell something that people don't necessarily want. And I'm not saying that I didn't. I ended up selling thousands and thousands and thousands of the cardboard boxes. Don't get me wrong, but I sell thousands and thousands of these. Thousands and thousands and thousands of these every year. These other products are just, they're easier to store, they're cheaper to buy, they're easier to ship, and, and people buy them in multiple quantities and then they rebuy them and rebuy them and rebuy. That's so different from, from the other products that I was selling. So that was a big part of my success over the last year was really.
- [06:34]
A
Okay, I, I definitely want to talk about that. But how did you know you needed to pivot? So first off, if you're in the audience and you don't know what her products are, she sells. The last time I had interviewed Don, she was selling these cardboard boxes, which are kind of bulky and they're kind of heavy to ship and whatnot. How did you decide that you needed to pivot? Because the, if I recall correctly, the boxes is what you got all your press from, right? Because they were really innovative and really cool looking and everything.
- [07:00]
B
And I've gotten quite A bit of press for these as well, but, but yes, because, because there's like, there's, there's two categories of things. One is, do you get a lot of attention for something? I mean, they were really clever, they're really cute. I've even made them more clever and more cute. And, and that's one thing, but then, you know, selling them and being, you know, selling them profitably is another. And those are two separate things. And, and, and, you know, the, the attention's a good thing because, you know, well, there used to be more of a, you know, an SEO benefit to that and, and, you know, people see it and they buy it and so on, but it's not enough to sustain. And so my first thought was really just to start adding more products to my store. And I wanted them to be unique. I wanted them to be something that I had come up with. I designed. And, but when these hit, you know, when I, when I got, I ordered, I think 200 of two different designs when I, when I first started selling these wool cat toys and I sold out of like the 400, like, like immediately. And I thought, oh, goodness, well, I better order, you know, double that next time. And it's just, I mean, it's just been an exponential growth in, in sales of these products.
- [08:14]
A
Amazing. Are you selling them on your own store? Amazon? Like, where are the bulk of your sales coming in?
- [08:19]
B
It's really a third. A third, A third I sell. And last year may have been, we actually talked about this, Steve. I'd had completely spontaneous organic, an influencer with 11 million TikTok followers had posted about, about the product. And I mean, his cat really, really liked it. And, and they, you know, people bought everything that I sold. I mean, I was completely sold out. So that, that's probably where the third on my website came from because actually I was on vacation at the time. I didn't have a lot of inventory in Amazon and people were forced to buy website. They really wanted to buy them from Amazon. So it's a, a third on my website. A third of my business is on Amazon and I would like that to be, you know, less in the future. And a third is wholesale. And that's the most exciting part of my business for me for a number of reasons. And, and I really am looking to keep building on that success.
- [09:11]
A
All right, so how did you come up with these wool cat toys?
- [09:14]
B
Well, I actually, you know, this is kind of silly, but I got mad because somebody unfollowed me on Instagram. And I mean, this you know, it happens all the time. People unfollow, single day. But I just. The whole Instagram thing is so frustrating and people just unfollowing for no reason. And I just looked to see what this person, you know, who this person was who unfollowed me because the name was kind of unusual. And she sold a wool cat toy and I thought wool and, and anyway, that I ended up completely designing the product myself. And I have very unique designs. I just put a new one out yesterday that are nothing like what this other person was selling. But, you know, one thought leads to another, leads to another, and, and the weird thing is there's no really good explanation for it, but cats are really obsessed with wool.
- [10:01]
A
Have you ever wondered how much your business is actually worth? Now, I sold one of my businesses through Quiet Light, and honestly, just getting that initial valuation changed everything for me. Not because of that number itself, but because of what came with it. My advisor walked me through exactly what buyers would be looking for, how I needed to restructure my accounting, what documentation I was missing, the gaps in my financials that might kill a deal before it even starts, and stuff that I really had no idea that mattered when it came to selling a business. And here's the thing. I wasn't even ready to sell yet. But knowing what I needed to fix meant that I could actually start preparing. And I now had a roadmap. Everyone at Quiet Light has built or sold businesses themselves, so my advisor told me what needed to change. It was actually coming from real experience, sitting across from buyers. And by the time I was ready, everything was positioned right and we attracted serious buyers. So if you've been thinking about selling someday, even if that day feels way far off, just getting a free valuation from Quiet Light will make a huge difference. You'll learn what you need to fix right now so you're not scrambling later. And if you're interested, go over to quietlight.com
- [11:09]
B
and it may be due to the, the scent of the lanolin, you know, the natural lanolin. And this is a really nice wool product. But also I these. So the first product was a wool mouse with a six foot long tail. And the six foot long tail combined with the wool cats go berserk, I mean, berserk over this thing. So cats are notoriously fussy, difficult to please, not universally satisfied with anything. And almost universally cats like this toy. So it's, it's a rare thing.
- [11:41]
A
Interesting. So the fact that someone unfollowed you and you noticed and then you looked at what that person sold gave you kind of, like, the idea that this might work.
- [11:50]
B
Yeah. I'm like, what is this? What? Why, Will? Why? You know, it just got me thinking. And so that's where we went from there.
- [11:56]
A
So before we move on, can you just run down, like, the unit economics for the cardboard boxes? Just to refresh my memory? Like, you had this really cool milk. Milk box, right?
- [12:05]
B
I don't sell that one anymore.
- [12:06]
A
You don't sell it anymore? Oh, man.
- [12:07]
B
No, I actually just sold out of all of them. Okay. The last of it. I actually looked into having it designed differently. I have a different design actually sitting in my house right now. They're really large. The way I was selling them before and the way people like them was they were shipped, assembled, and so people liked that. They didn't have to put anything together. It just showed up, and all they had to do was take it out of the box and ready to go. Right. But you can't. The economics of the. Of the postage, really.
- [12:37]
A
Right. Okay.
- [12:38]
B
It's just too expensive to ship, so. And I do have a far more compact design, but just. People don't buy those the way they buy the other toys.
- [12:47]
A
Okay.
- [12:48]
B
It's really hard for me to justify spending that much money to store them and ship them and. And, you know, even making them, I have to order, you know, a bigger quantity of them because it's just not economical to order. You know, I would love to be able to order 200 of them and. And because people would buy those still, but I can't order to. I have to order, you know, 1500 of them. And 1500 is a lot.
- [13:12]
A
So are you trying to phase out, like, the cardboard part of your business then?
- [13:17]
B
I mean, yeah, slowly. I think I'm debating, you know, because they still produce some revenue for me. So it's, you know, I'm, you know, want to sell what I have, and I. And I may still continue to order, you know, the more popular designs, but. But even a design that I thought I do a haunted house for ca hats, and it is so freaking adorable. But those have just not. It's such a brief period out of the year when people buy them, and it's really, really hard to then hold on to what you bought for the next year, too.
- [13:48]
A
So I would imagine the unit economics for these wool toys is way better.
- [13:52]
B
It is.
- [13:53]
A
Okay.
- [13:55]
B
And they're just. I mean, everything about them, I mean, you know, just they're. They're inexpensive to make. They're inexpensive to store, they're inexpensive to Ship inexpensive to package.
- [14:05]
A
Yeah. So walk me through like the thought process. You already have this successful product, you're trying this new one. How many did you have to order of this new one? And how did you, like, what did you do next?
- [14:18]
B
Well, I mean, I'd actually tried some other things. I didn't actually purchase inventory. I had other ideas that I developed or one in particular and I just decided that that wasn't what I knew about. This one required some assembly too. It was not cardboard and I just knew people wouldn't be able to assemble it. And I'm sorry, I was referring to the wool toys. Yes, I'm saying that there were some interim things and this one, I'm sorry, what was the question again?
- [14:42]
A
Oh, it was, you know, you have these successful cardboard box toys and then walk me through how, you know, you decide to launch the wool toy. Like did you just look for a factory immediately buy a whole bunch or like, was it a longer process? I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of if you are interested in starting your own online store. I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in ecommerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be obtained@mywifequitterjob.com free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I'll send you the course right away. Once again, that's my wifequitter job.com free. Now back to the show.
- [15:36]
B
Right, so I did start out looking to see if they could be made in China and this took me down a whole rabbit hole of where's wool? Where's felted wool made? And I, I just, I felt really concerned about the ones that were made in China. I couldn't get them to confirm about what kind of dyes they used. And, and, and they just, it just, it just wasn't the direction that I wanted to go. One of the things about my cardboard box toys is that they are very environmentally friendly. I make them out of recycled cardboard, they're very safe for cats, they're made of inks that are, you know, FDA approved, et cetera, et cetera. So it was important to me to, to make something that, you know, you know, had some of those sort of social and you know, benefits for the, for the pets Too. And so I don't know if you've ever seen those wool dryer balls that people have.
- [16:23]
A
Yes.
- [16:24]
B
And I looked into those. And where are those made? Those are made in Nepal. And so Nepal is just a really interesting country to have things made. It's not like I have another product made in China. It's not the same thing at all. They're, they're not there the way China is in terms of having the infrastructure set up to, to sell to people in the U.S. it's quite the same way. But it's a very pro social way of buying goods. For example, I buy these wool toys from a craft guild. The felt artisans are low income women. They get a living wage, they're fair trade certified, they get a living wage for making my products. They get health and retirement benefits. They get incentives for keeping their daughters in school. This was something that meant a lot to me. And also the wool, they import the wool into Nepal from New Zealand. New Zealand is known for its laws that protect the sheep in the country. So it's some of the most ethical wool that you can buy. It's also some of the highest quality wool and the items are really, they're beautifully, beautifully made. So very high quality items. So I'm really pleased to be able to sell those.
- [17:32]
A
Wow. So how did you find these Nepalese?
- [17:38]
B
Yeah, I actually ended up, I mean, digging and digging and digging and digging. I found some travel website that said, you know, for people who go to Nepal, where, where can you buy ethical items? And it was a list of some companies that sold ethical items. And I started calling people don't respond. You know that.
- [17:55]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [17:56]
B
And I found, actually found two companies that were, respond to me and I had them both make samples. And this company that I use now is, you know, highly responsive and you know, a pleasure to, to work with. And that's just how I, you know, I just had them send me some samples. They're just, um, it's just been a great relationship ever since.
- [18:15]
A
In terms of the design you mentioned you're designing them yourselves. Are you like a designer or did you work with someone on their end to help you make something that way you want?
- [18:24]
B
Okay. I don't know the first thing about felting wool, but I knew it to look a certain way and have certain characteristics to it. And so, and you know, we've done this with a few toys now. I, I mean they send you the first one. It doesn't look anything like what you said. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, you keep well could you, could you. You know, and then back and forth and back and forth and we just did it through, through videos. They would mail me videos of the thing and one of the. I have this, a felt octopus you probably saw in there. I wanted it to really, really, it's really a beautiful, beautiful thing and I wanted it to look a certain way and that took about I think a year of back and forth to get that to, to just look like that. And, and so then they sent me some and they're just so easy and nice about it. I mean they charged me like, you know, three bucks for a sample or something.
- [19:13]
A
Really.
- [19:13]
B
They send me one sample in the mail, you know, like just so, so, you know, and back and forth and back and forth and so it's become easier to, to work with them. This last design that I did really only took a couple iterations to do.
- [19:27]
A
I'm curious since I've never sourced from Nepal before. Are like the unit pricing, is it cheaper, more expensive than China? Because you did research in China also, right?
- [19:37]
B
Yeah, I never got to the point of the pricing though I would imagine it's slightly more expensive than China. But, but, but that's also because of who, you know, who's making it and what, what goes into it. These are also like special Azo free dyes and that are more expensive than what, than what they use in China.
- [19:53]
A
And China wasn't willing to reveal to you like the chemicals and the certifications and all that?
- [19:57]
B
That was. Right, that was really it, you know, that was, I was really concerned and it just, just weren't. I was working through an agent and it just, that I've worked through before and it just, I wasn't getting the responses that I needed. I wasn't getting the product to look the way I needed it to look. And, and I was really concerned about whether it would be safer cats. Right.
- [20:18]
A
What about like the minimum order quantities for these factories? Are they.
- [20:22]
B
I can order one. I mean like really, they, they're, I mean and, and I could order which, you know, I could order thousands, which I just did. I mean just.
- [20:34]
A
They'll fill thousands and the infrastructure is all good. Like are these coming over actually for a thousand units of these, is it still being flown over then?
- [20:42]
B
And actually I'm having them flown over in smaller, in smaller quantities.
- [20:46]
A
Okay, that is amazing. So these factories must be pretty obscure and they probably aren't like full blown factories to sell to Walmart or something like that, right?
- [20:58]
B
No, they're definitely not. And I think what they actually have are work centers all around the country so that people who are really, really poor and living in these very rural areas, they don't have to travel to get to work. It's in their communities. And so, and I have photos of, and videos of them making the products. And they look like pretty rustic centers, you know, a table, some. There's not a lot of equipment required to make felted items. And you know, they, the women gather in these places and make, and make the products and then they can go back home to their families. They don't have to.
- [21:30]
A
Amazing.
- [21:31]
B
Yeah.
- [21:31]
A
And you did not have to travel there that you did this all kind of digitally or remotely, right?
- [21:37]
B
All. Yeah, all virtually. And I would love to travel there at some point to see it all in person. But, but that's for the future. Okay.
- [21:45]
A
All right, so you, let's say you get your first sample. Was the octopus your first product?
- [21:48]
B
First one was the. I had a red mouse, red with a six foot long tail and a mouse with a rainbow colored tail.
- [21:55]
A
Okay, so how many did you order in that first? Did you just order one?
- [21:58]
B
200 of each.
- [21:59]
A
200 of each. Okay. And then what did you do after that? Like you had the product in hand
- [22:04]
B
now what did I do? Put them up on my website. Nobody bought them. I mean, you know, it's just started to do outreach with, with actually my wholesale customers. That was the first way, the first.
- [22:19]
A
Okay, so we got to backtrack. Did you always have those wholesale customers? I didn't even realize you had those.
- [22:24]
B
Right. So it's, it's really a growing, growing thing for me. But I had, I had a few. So I signed up for fair and you know, I just sat back because I didn't realize how this whole thing works. I sat back and waited for the orders to come in and yes, some orders did come in and, and you know, then you have a way to, to connect email and so forth. But then I realized, oh goodness, I could actually send people to fair and actually get even, you know, more profitable business that way. And, and you know, and then once that light bulb goes off, I've developed a whole process for, for getting new wholesale customers now. But also, you know, I, you know, posted on social media, people started, you know, buying little by little. You know, I have an email list that you help me. I have about 5,500 people on my email list and they do, but they, every time I send a newsletter out once a week, people buy them every, every week so that, you know, it trickles and the thing about it is the cats really like it so much that they. People start buying them for other people. Like they can't believe, like the cat really likes it because cats are so absurdly fussy and, and so they buy for other people and then other people buy for other people. It really, it started to build on
- [23:36]
A
of its own word of mouth.
- [23:37]
B
Yeah.
- [23:38]
A
Amazing. Okay, so you got these couple hundred units of a couple designs, throw them up on your website, emailed your list. You had a couple of wholesale people inquire about them. Was that enough to just sell out your first batch?
- [23:49]
B
I sold those out really, really quickly, actually. Yeah.
- [23:51]
A
Amazing. Was. Was it more from the email list or at this point you didn't list them on Amazon, right?
- [23:56]
B
I think they were. Yes, they were on Amazon too. That was again, a really, really. And it's still a slow. I mean, I'm not, I'm not doing what you need to do to be successful on Amazon, mostly because I don't want to and I also don't know how, but I. It's, I mean, it's such a frustrating platform and I know people are so successful on it, but I don't know that I want to do what you have to do to be successful. I don't know that my product has the margins to do what you need to do to be successful.
- [24:23]
A
I mean, if it does get too successful, someone's going to knock it off too, on Amazon. Okay, great. So that's. All right. So you had it on Amazon, but it sounds like the bulk of your sales was through your own channels.
- [24:35]
B
Right, Right.
- [24:36]
A
Okay, so let's walk me back. Was this wholesale? Was that for the boxes or did you start the wholesale?
- [24:43]
B
I started it for that. So I really just did not get a lot of orders. The problem with the product is, is that pet stores are really small. Excuse me. And even the most compact cardboard box product takes up too much room on their shelves.
- [24:58]
A
Okay.
- [24:59]
B
And so they were reluctant to buy it and it doesn't have enough, really enough margin in it for them either. So it's hard when it's a good product, but it's not a good product to sell. Right. If you understand what I mean.
- [25:10]
A
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. So were you. I can't even remember how you got business for your initial boxes. Were you running ads or was it just all press mentions and.
- [25:21]
B
Yeah, you know, the, the ads thing. I, you know, much like the Amazon PPC thing, don't really know how to do it and don't feel comfortable. I just, the few Times I tried it, it just felt like putting your credit card into a black box and hoping something comes out of it.
- [25:37]
A
That's actually how it works now.
- [25:38]
B
Yeah. So I really like things that I have more control over. I mean, maybe that's just the personality trait of my own and, you know, maybe I'm being ridiculous and I should just hand over my credit card and let them do all the sales for me. But I, but I really like when I do something and have a lever to pull and it really works. And I think that's why I like the whole thing. Wholesale business most of all.
- [25:59]
A
Interesting. Okay, so is that like your fastest growing segment then?
- [26:03]
B
By far the fastest growing and the most satisfying, to be honest.
- [26:06]
A
So, you know, we actually haven't discussed fair on this podcast. You want to walk people through how to get wholesale orders from Fair? Is it what, what things can you do?
- [26:14]
B
I think things have changed a lot on Fair, but because I think there's a lot of non fairish type of businesses unfair, which is my understanding, is that it's becoming harder and harder for new businesses to be discovered on Fair because of. It's just too cluttered. Yeah. But for me, if I sat around all day waiting for FAIR to find customers, for me, I wouldn't, I would not have very many customers. Right. The whole idea is to send your own customers to Fair because first of all, you pay 0% commission on those sales. And you know, second, it's all on you. You get to control, you know, how much business you have. And so, yeah, that's just. It's been really working for me to drive. Drive people.
- [26:54]
A
But there's a chicken and egg problem there. Right. So the people who buy from you as a consumer, are they going to go to fair?
- [27:02]
B
So what do you mean by consumer? Do you mean a retail customer?
- [27:04]
A
Like, like, yeah, like let's say they buy one from you, they're not going to go to fair and buy.
- [27:08]
B
Right. The only people buying from me on FAIR are pet stores, gift stores, natural food stores. Yeah, that's about those. Those are the three kinds of businesses. Really.
- [27:18]
A
Those were businesses you had gathered from the box. Boxes, right?
- [27:21]
B
No, those are businesses that I went out and found myself.
- [27:25]
A
Walk me through. Okay.
- [27:27]
B
Okay. So this is, I mean, and let me just say, it took me like two years of trying to talk to other people who do sales and figuring out how to do it. And it's so simple. And I don't know why I didn't figure it out sooner, but I tried to get other people who have gone before to tell me how to do it. But the key is. The key is persistence. And I didn't realize how persistent you have to be. Politely persistent, of course, course. But I literally just had somebody buy for me. I sent them a sample of my product a year ago. It took me a year of polite persistence, and they bought for me. And now once somebody buys for me, they will buy for me forever until they go out of business, and they will not return anything and they will pay shipping. And I don't. It's a magical, magical thing. Why are we all not doing wholesale sales? It's, it's just, it's very profitable. And no trouble, nothing. No. No issues. And it just magically just, you know, multiplies itself.
- [28:31]
A
Okay, so walk me through this, Don. Did you just go down the business listings and just start calling pet stores?
- [28:37]
B
More or less. I have a. There's an industry magazine that I start with. It's a. It's probably rare. It's a really, really good industry magazine and the most cutting edge of the pet stores. And, and believe me, in this world of Chewy and Amazon, it's a. It takes a lot to be successful in this, in this business as an independent retailer. And these people that show up in this magazine, they write letters to the editor, they send in their suggestions. They are really successful, you know, you know, really doing unique things in this field. So those are my first targets. And I just keep a running list of those. Every time I get a magazine, I just through the magazine, write down the names of everybody who, you know, appeared in their letters to the editor or whatever, and I just keep a running list and I just start at the top of the list. Every time I've got time to make phone calls and I call that person and I offer to send them a free sample of one of my products.
- [29:29]
A
And what's your hit rate on that?
- [29:31]
B
My hit rate on getting business.
- [29:34]
A
I mean, even them picking up the phone.
- [29:36]
B
Oh, well, they don't have to pick up the phone. All I have to do is, is, you know, I mean, somebody picks up the phone, it's a store. All I have to do is find out, you know, are they the kind of person that wants to receive a free sample? Because some people will tell me, right? No, she won't. You know, you have to send her an email first. That's fine. Because that's the first touch with this customer. And maybe they answer my email, maybe they don't. Probably they won't, but maybe they've seen it And I just keep reiterating who I am, my company and what I'm sending them. You know, it's a wool mouse with a six foot long rainbow colored tail. And that alone, I think you said it to one person. They'll say, some lady's gonna send you a wool mouse with a, you know, to the boss. Or maybe I get the boss on the phone. That's happened. Maybe, you know, 25% of the time I get the boss on the phone. And so that, that's just the first contact. I make a call the first time, then I mail the thing out right away and then I follow up the next time. Two weeks. I have HubSpot set to remind me to call them in two weeks. I tried this with a spreadsheet. It doesn't work. You have to use the CRM software and it reminds you to call and I, the next time I'll send an email. If they don't respond the next time I'll call. And I said it. Just two weeks. Two weeks. Two weeks, two weeks all the way. As long as it takes. The, the as long as it takes means until somebody buys for me or until somebody tells me to stop calling them. That's it. That's the whole thing. It's the whole. I wish somebody had told me you have to keep calling because that is the just and as polite as can be. Oh, I'm just circling back to make sure that you, that you got this in the mail. I, you know, I just, you know, things don't. And they don't arrive. I mean, sometimes they don't arrive and I have to send them another one. Just want to make sure you got it. And then. Oh, did you have any feedback? Oh, did you let any of the store cats play with it? Did you let any of your own cats? And, and just to get them in conversation, whether by email or by phone, and until they say, you know, I'll place an order today or you know, this isn't going to work for my store. And, and I will say my hit rate is I'm batting.500.
- [31:38]
A
Amazing.
- [31:39]
B
Yeah.
- [31:39]
A
Okay, that is really high.
- [31:41]
B
Half of the people that I start, I sent them a sample and that's what I count. I sent the sample.
- [31:47]
A
Sure.
- [31:47]
B
Half of those buy for me ultimately.
- [31:49]
A
So that one who you said it took a year, does that imply that you were calling them or contact them every two weeks for a year?
- [31:55]
B
Yeah, more. I mean, you know, I just mentioned to you before the call, we, we did a whole house rental. It was very, very Loud in here for like six months. Like so. For like so there was a gaps where I didn't call people for every two weeks, but if it was in a normal year, yes, I would call every single two weeks.
- [32:11]
A
Amazing. Okay. You know what I love about this, Don, is because most people these days, they just want to feed some money to like Facebook or Google and like, not talk to anyone and do anything and expect business to come. I think what you're doing with calling with the, you know, you're the owner calling these stores, the conversion rate is going to be way higher than if you just ran some ads. I mean, this might be your superpower, right?
- [32:34]
B
Well, the crazy thing, Steve, is you probably know this, but I am a raging introvert. I mean, asking them to buy something from me is so against my own grain. I mean, really just not something I would ever. And I think that's why I avoided it for so long. I sent postcards, I sent emails, I've sent, I rewrote my emails. I, I've tried so many different things to get wholesale customers. Those do not work. And sending a sample of a very appealing product in very appealing packaging. And I don't mean to sound, you know, not, not humble about it, but the product is really great and it's really in cute packaging and they still will not buy from you if you send it to them. It doesn't matter. You have to call them. And I, you know, I actually think of that Robert Cialdini book that you recommend. Yeah. That is. There's the one thing that really struck me was the whole thing about you make people feel like they're obligated to you in some small way and like giving them a keychain. Well, I'm giving them more than a keychain or a pencil or, you know, with my logo on. I'm giving them an actual product that they actually could just sell to a customer for, you know, 20 bucks or whatever. And I think maybe that obligates them in some small way at least to respond to me, I think. And then once I get to talk to, I mean, I'm enthusiastic about the product. I can talk about the product.
- [33:48]
A
Yeah, it sounds so, Don, I know you say you're an introvert, but like I, I hark back to your presentation at 5 minute pitch and everything. I, I would not be able to tell. And you're so talkative. Like, you know, we're checking, chatting one on one here and you're bubbling with energy.
- [34:03]
B
I almost died before. I mean, that was like the Worst thing, I sat in that hotel room. Before that, I didn't even go to any. You were invited me to all of the sessions. I didn't even go to any of the sessions because I just had to sit in my hotel room and suffer until now.
- [34:18]
A
Okay, all right, so great. So this wholesale. So, right. This is. You know what's funny? I just had someone on the podcast. She didn't just call. She actually took her car and drove to stores all over the country.
- [34:31]
B
I did that in my area. I live in New England, and I did that to all the pet stores in the area. It didn't work because I didn't have the follow up. So had I. And at this time, I wasn't selling this particular product. And maybe that was part of it. But the real. And now that I know that from this, merely giving somebody something isn't enough, really. It's the follow up. The follow up is the whole thing. I've had maybe two people buy from me after they saw the product and without any additional touch points.
- [35:00]
A
All right, so you must have, like, a pitch down at this point, right? So pretend like I'm the store. Like, what do you say to me?
- [35:07]
B
Oh, I just say, oh, Hi, I'm Dawn LaFontaine, my company's cat in the Box. I have a product sample that I'd love to send to Arlene. You know, would she be interested in receiving a free product sample? And everybody, almost everybody, says, yes. Or the first thing I might say this would be after, hi, is Arlene in? You know, assuming they said, I'm sorry, Arlene's with a customer, or Arlene's not in today. So after that, then I just say that to the clerk. And so then I actually send a paper letter. A real. This is paper.
- [35:36]
A
This is like where you hand write something.
- [35:38]
B
No, I mean, I have it on, you know, just, you know, letterhead paper.
- [35:42]
A
You mean with like a stamp and everything?
- [35:45]
B
Well, it goes with the products, inside the product, and. And it actually says, you know, like, you know, I. I'm a small business, and I could. I could show it to you, but it, you know, it. You know that marketing is hard for a tiny company like mine. I really. I want you to see the product and the packaging in person and, you know, maybe let a kitty customer play with it. And I have a QR code that goes right to my fare page. Right. I have the MSRP and the, you know, the wholesale price right in the letter. That's it. It's just like three little paragraphs. Not a whole lot, but it's a letter. And who gets a letter these days?
- [36:18]
A
And, yeah, I remember you were very good at writing also, Don.
- [36:24]
B
This comes easy to me. This part's easy. And also, I just keep the same letter. Oh, and in the beginning of the letter. So if I've talked to, you know, Chris in the pet store and not Arlene, I'll say, chris, I spoke to Chris in the store today, and she said that you wouldn't mind receiving a product sample. So I've made it clear, I've called the store. I've made it clear, I've. I've made a real contact with, you know, I took a real interest in their business. I mean, they know if Chris works there, doesn't work there, you know, so. Yeah.
- [36:52]
A
Okay. All right. So at that point, then, do they just go ahead and buy from Fair and they don't contact you again?
- [36:57]
B
No, they never. Almost never. Almost never ever buy.
- [37:00]
A
So you just see, like, this order pop up in Fair.
- [37:03]
B
I mean, almost never. Like twice. Like twice. That happens. Like, literally twice out of 100 calls. The rest of them, they. They ignore it. They get the product and they ignore it.
- [37:15]
A
All right, so I, I've had other people who sell wholesale on the podcast, and one thing that they told me is you might get that first order, but you sometimes have to follow up to get additional orders. Have you. Is that, like, on your string of calls or do you not have to do that?
- [37:31]
B
In my experience, almost everyone automatically just gets on a routine of buying from me regularly. But I, you know, of course, Fair has their own email system, and I do periodically send. I don't. People don't like to be emailed too often from Fair, and Fair doesn't like you to email them too often. But I do keep them on an email list and I. And I send out news every now and then. And that definitely does trigger some people to buy, but I don't know if they would have bought anyway. But they just. This is what I said about the magic of it is I don't even have to ask for any more orders. The orders just come in. They just buy them. It's unbelievable.
- [38:06]
A
I think maybe you like the quality of your product or the uniqueness of your product makes it that way, because I've had other people on the pod where they're doing wholesale, and they have to go in and make sure that the product's being displayed properly and not hidden on some, like, back of the shelf type of thing. Yeah, but I, I think for you it seems like these are small, kind of like mom and pop shops.
- [38:27]
B
Yes, for the most part. Some are like small chains, but yeah. You know, regional chains.
- [38:32]
A
Yeah. And clearly your product is moving. Right. Otherwise they wouldn't be reordering. And so the combination of those things makes it very hands off for you, which is amazing. These are like the, like, this is the foundation of our business. You know that, right?
- [38:45]
B
Yes.
- [38:45]
A
The wedding and the event planners, they just keep ordering and there's more weddings. They don't even ask for coupons. They don't even use the coupon. We give them half the time because they forget. Right.
- [38:54]
B
They just need it. They need the thing.
- [38:56]
A
And so. Yeah, so that provides a foundation. And then are you even actively trying to grow the retail side? Because you'd be kind of competing against your wholesale people, right?
- [39:08]
B
Yes and no. I mean, because. Well, so I'm in more than 100 stores in the US and some in Europe now, but these are not in every community. And I actually have a store locator on my website now. I think that's awesome. It's two things. It says to anybody looking at it that these are things in pet stores. You're not just buying from some crazy lady on the other end of, you know, the website, whatever. But you know that you're in all these stores, you know, you must be legitimate. And also, it's a. It's a favor to the stores that, you know, to. I can mention that to them. When it was actually a store that. That asked me to do it and said, you know, we get a lot of business from store locators. Would you consider putting one on your website? And it was actually easier. Easy enough to do. I got some free software to do. It was super easy.
- [39:53]
A
All right, John, the other thing I forgot to ask you is you're not like a technical person, right?
- [39:58]
B
No.
- [39:59]
A
Okay. I mean, you're. You're. What. You put up your website, you added the store locator, all this stuff. I mean, did you do that on your own or did you hire someone?
- [40:05]
B
I mean, I'm. I'm resourceful. I'm not.
- [40:08]
A
Yes, that's what I was getting at.
- [40:11]
B
And I'm not afraid of it, so. And there's always someone you can ask. I mean, there's. I could have asked you. I said, suppose, but.
- [40:16]
A
And then now there's ChatGPT or all the LLMs, a million videos.
- [40:21]
B
Most of these things don't require any of that. You just literally, like, do it. It's. It's not that Hard to do.
- [40:27]
A
All right, so since we've spoken twice, and then you start out with that first product, and now you pivoted towards these wool toys. If you were to start all over again, like with product selection and whatnot, what would you have done, Done differently?
- [40:42]
B
I would have taken your advice from the start, Steve.
- [40:45]
A
I already know what that advice was.
- [40:48]
B
It needed to fit in a shoebox. Do you remember that advice?
- [40:52]
A
I do. Of course I do. Yeah.
- [40:54]
B
So that's what I should have done, is put it didn't matter. So. So a couple things don't matter. How clever the product is. Doesn't really matter, actually. You know, it only matters whether somebody wants to buy it. And then the other thing that matters is, are. Are the. Do the economics work? And the shoebox thing, is it because shoot things in shoeboxes don't take up as much room as the first products that I started with.
- [41:15]
A
What were the unit. What were the margins on the cardboard boxes? I was just curious.
- [41:19]
B
You know, it's really, really harder to say because first I charge shipping, and then now I built the shipping, literally could be 30, $40. I'm not. Yes. So. So that was not the case. There was no shipping that cost more than $10 when I first started selling them. So. So they. The first initial ones that I bought cost less than $6 to buy per unit. 550 or so. And then the shipping was 10 bucks. It was. It was very reasonable. It wasn't an unreasonable thing to sell. Right. But now shipping one to California could cost me 40 bucks.
- [41:51]
A
Crazy. Okay, if I recall, these boxes were like 30, 40 bucks or something.
- [41:56]
B
Well, they. Right. I had to keep raising the prices to accommodate the free shipping.
- [42:00]
A
Right. Yeah. And then it was bulky and.
- [42:03]
B
And they got damaged in the mail, too. So. And then I, you know, as you know, I actually redesigned them a couple times. They're more compact. Most those don't cost more than, say, $12 to ship the more compact ones, but that's still a lot, you know, and. Well, yeah, anyway.
- [42:21]
A
Well, for the people listening who are maybe stuck, then, like, what are just some signs that you need to pivot?
- [42:29]
B
Does it feel like you're pushing a boulder uphill to get anybody to buy it? And, you know, is it really, really hard to convince people to sell it in, you know, you know, in a store? Is it really hard to get somebody just to come to your website and buy it even after you've, you know, built up some followers on social media or, you know, gotten some exposure in some way? And then try something else. I mean, I. You are. Everything that you've learned in starting the first product, you get to keep all that. It's not one bit of wasted effort. You just have to try it with something else.
- [43:03]
A
And then how do you know when you've tried everything, though? Like, I know some people just kind of say, oh, I tried that, and it didn't work. I guess you tried for, like, a couple years, right, with the bottle?
- [43:14]
B
Yeah, I redesigned the product several times, went found a new manufacturer. I addressed all the issues that customers had with the product.
- [43:21]
A
Right.
- [43:21]
B
Oh, it doesn't come with a scratcher. Oh, it's too hard to put together. I changed all of those. I addressed everything I did go through. So then try something else. And if that doesn't work, try. I mean, you have people on your. I would listen to all your podcasts. You know, it sounds like people are successful right away, but they're not successful right away. They have 17 failed business.
- [43:42]
A
Absolutely.
- [43:42]
B
And the only thing that separates them from the people who said, well, it just doesn't work, is that they just kept going back to the drawing board and trying again. And everything that they learned from the first 17 businesses came to play in their successful 18th business.
- [43:57]
A
So, okay, so going forward, it seems like you got this wholesale thing down. Are you just going to double down on it?
- [44:05]
B
Absolutely. And no house project this year. No noise. I can just make all the calls I want. The actual. The bigger problem now is I have so many orders. Is filling orders takes a lot of time. I have to address that issue, too. Do I hire someone? Do I retire my husband and make him pack. Pack the boxes for me?
- [44:24]
A
Or I guess you could hire someone to do the sales also and handle the film. Maybe like 3 PL is perfect for you because it's small and light.
- [44:34]
B
Right? It is, but it's expensive. They're expensive. And the margins still aren't. They're not. I mean, yes, you know, I pay a few bucks to buy the item, and it's, you know, I sell them for 17 to $25, but. Yeah, but, you know, there's, you know, airfare from Nepal and there's the shipping packaging. So the margins aren't there really for me. I don't think for. For a three pl, but. Okay. And also, I'm such a control freak that I don't know if I could.
- [45:02]
A
That is the next step in the breakdown of Dawn. Yes.
- [45:05]
B
I don't even know if I could let my husband pack it without checking. And he packs for me. All the time too. And I, I should be, you know, but you make one mistake on fair that's not really good for your fair business. You have to, you have to get your orders. 100 right? Right.
- [45:21]
A
Well, Don, this was a great conversation. I'm so glad that you're doing well. And I always thought that everything that you've made has always been clever. So it's just a matter of finding something where the margins made sense for your time and whatnot. So thank you for sharing your story again.
- [45:39]
B
Well, thank you so much for having me on again, Steve. I appreciate it.
- [45:43]
A
Hope you enjoyed that episode. Feel free to go check out Don's site over@thecatisinthebox.com and for more information and resources go over to mywifecoderjob.com Episode 639 and once again, if you're interested in starting your own e commerce store, head on over to mywifecoderjob.com and sign up for my free 6 day mini course. Just type in your email and I'll send you the course right away. Thanks for listening.