Why Communication Breaks Down in Marriage

Summary

Podcast Summary:

The Naked Marriage with Dave & Ashley Willis
Episode: Why Communication Breaks Down in Marriage
Date: March 2, 2026
Hosts: Dave Willis, Ashley Willis
Duration Covered: [01:17] – [34:18]

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Episode Overview

In this candid, faith-driven episode, Dave and Ashley Willis explore why communication often breaks down in marriage and what couples can do to foster deeper, healthier connections. Drawing from their own marital experiences and years spent mentoring couples, they emphasize the foundational role communication plays in building and maintaining a thriving “naked marriage”—a relationship marked by honesty, vulnerability, and spiritual unity. Through stories, practical tips, and biblical wisdom, they offer insights for couples at all stages of marriage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Communication as the Lifeline of Marriage

• [01:38] Ashley: Most marital issues are actually communication issues.
• [02:00] Dave: "Communication does for your marriage what breathing does for your lungs… It’s the lifeline keeping the two of you together."
• Communication isn’t just about exchanging facts—it's about mutual vulnerability: sharing feelings, challenges, encouragement, and having no secrets.
• The “naked marriage” is rooted in transparency: hiding nothing from one another.

2. Misconceptions and Early Struggles

• Despite both having degrees in communication (Dave even taught it at the college level), they found these skills didn’t automatically translate into marital success.
• [03:11] Ashley highlights assumptions: “I really was convinced that the longer we were married, the less words we would have to use… He should know.”
• This led to mutual frustration and disappointment when each partner expected the other to “just know” what they were thinking or feeling—a dynamic reinforced by media portrayals of love (“Hallmark movies”).

3. Learning to Seek Help and Embrace Growth

• [05:59] Dave gives practical encouragement: “Asking for help is sometimes one of the most difficult, but one of the most transformative things you can do.”
• They underscore the importance of counseling, mentorship, and being part of small groups with couples at different stages of marriage.
• The healthiest couples are not those without problems, but those willing to seek wisdom and community when needed.

4. The Role of Mentorship and Community

• [09:08] Ashley credits their early involvement with church groups and observing couples further along in marriage.
• [10:54] Dave: Look for mentors who genuinely like and enjoy each other—“Best friends with each other.”
• Fun, laughter, and friendship are essential for resiliency and connection in marriage.

5. Healthy Boundaries & Communication Habits

• [11:22] Dave: “Decide in advance you’re not going to insult, cuss, or name-call each other—even if you grew up in homes where this happened.”
• Never argue or discuss important issues over text messages.
  • [12:59] Dave: “So many dumb marriage arguments are the result of talking about important stuff via text message... It's a toxic way to have an important conversation.”
  • [15:44] Ashley: Recounts counseling a couple whose long, emotional texts caused more harm than good; recommends journaling first and face-to-face discussions.

6. Understanding Processing Differences

• Couples process communication and conflict differently—for example, one may wish to talk things out immediately, while the other needs time to process.
  • [18:47] Dave: “Some people want to face it right then… Other people need to step away and take some time.”
  • [19:56] Ashley: “You actually need both [styles]… It all comes down to really honoring each other and how we're wired and not expecting to change the other person.”
• Finding compromise through setting a mutually agreed-upon time to revisit difficult conversations.

7. Dangers of Assumptions and Growing Apart

• Long-term couples sometimes assume they already know what their spouse thinks or feels, but people change over time.
  • [21:52] Dave: “Couples who've been married the longest are least likely to accurately guess what their spouse is thinking.”
  • Lack of ongoing, intentional communication can result in drifting apart, especially after major life transitions like children leaving home.

8. Faith & Praying Together

• [24:20] Ashley: “Communication is the very thing that keeps connection going.”
• The power of praying together is profound—studies show couples who pray out loud together regularly have less than a 1% divorce rate.
  • [25:32] Ashley: “That's just incredible… Over 99% will stay married.”
  • Overcoming self-consciousness and seeing prayer as spiritual humility and a means to maintaining a “soft heart” toward one another.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [02:00] Dave: “A marriage where there’s no communication is an oxymoron.”
• [03:11] Ashley: “God, in his mercy and also with a sense of humor, he will just gently tap us and say, ‘Pride comes before a fall.’ And boy, did we fall.”
• [05:59] Dave: “Never be too proud to ask for help.”
• [12:59] Dave: “Don’t talk about anything really important via text message.”
• [13:58] Ashley: “I've seen where husbands and wives take it public and go to Facebook… That is just completely out of bounds.”
• [16:33] Dave: "Communication is the message received. If it’s not being received in the right way… you have to rethink how you say it.”
• [17:29] Ashley: “Even waiting five seconds before responding can help regulate your system and avoid hurtful words.”
• [19:16] Ashley: “Like, he's just not listening. He doesn't care.”
• [21:52] Dave: “The couples who've been married the longest are the least likely to accurately guess what their spouse is thinking.”
• [24:20] Ashley: “Communication is the very thing that keeps connection going…”
• [25:15] Ashley: On stats about praying together: “…less than 1% chance of divorce. Less than 1%!”
• [27:28] Ashley: “It’s really hard to stay mad at your spouse and pray for them at the same time.”
• [32:30] Dave: On unwanted attraction, “There’s a difference between deception and discretion. We want to have no secrets, but we don’t have to verbalize every thought.”
• [34:04] Dave: “Picture a giant booger hanging out of his nose… and maybe he’ll be a little less attractive.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:38] – Communication as the root of most marriage issues
• [02:00] – Dave’s analogy: communication is breathing for marriage
• [03:11] – Early struggles: “We thought we knew communication”
• [05:59] – The importance of seeking outside help
• [09:08] – The difference mentors and community make
• [11:22] – Boundaries for communication and conflict
• [12:59] – Dangers of texting and public arguments
• [15:44] – Face-to-face vs. texted conflict; effects of journaling
• [17:29] – Managing emotional responses in conflict
• [18:47] – Processing differences and compromise
• [21:52] – The risk of long-term couples making assumptions
• [24:20] – Praying together and faith as foundation for connection
• [25:15] – Remarkable prayer-divorce rate statistic
• [27:28] – The power of praying for your spouse
• [28:21] – Closing encouragement and listener Q&A
• [30:12] – Tackling unwanted attraction: transparency vs. discretion
• [34:04] – Humorous coping: “Picture a giant booger”

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Closing Thoughts & Takeaways

• Communication takes continual, intentional effort, and seeking help is a sign of wisdom—not weakness.
• Avoid assumption; realize both partners process emotions/situations in different, valid ways.
• Fun, friendship, and mentorship can inject resilience and joy into marriage.
• Pray together—spiritual intimacy is a powerful force for unity and connection.
• Tough conversations (including about topics like attraction) should be handled with honesty, but also with discretion, compassion, and accountability.
• Above all: Stay humble, keep learning, and keep talking.

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“We’re either going to win together or lose together. And how we win together is… we keep on talking in a healthy way.” —Ashley Willis [28:13]

Transcript

[Ashley Willis]

We all want a marriage that thrives, but sometimes it feels like we're just surviving instead of growing together in Keep your clothes on.

[Dave Willis]

Narup Alphonse teaches couples how to dress their marriage and the virtues of Christ, compassion, patience, humility, forgiveness and love so that your relationship can flourish no matter the challenges.

[Ashley Willis]

Naroup helps couples see that marriage isn't just about getting along. It's about choosing love daily, bearing with one another in grace, and letting Christ shape your hearts together. You'll learn how to handle each other with care, practice humility and let the word of God guide your marriage.

[Dave Willis]

If you're ready to strengthen your marriage and live out Christlike love every day, this course is for you.

[Ashley Willis]

Keep your clothes on is available through your XO now subscription, or you can purchase it [e-mail] hey friends, welcome back

[Dave Willis]

to the Naked Marriage podcast where we uncover God's design for lifelong love. We're Dave and Ashley Willis. We're so honored that you stopped by. We've got a great topic for you today. Before we jump in, I want to let you know about a completely free resource. We want to get into your hands. We've written a 31 day marriage devotional designed for marriage, designed to help you and your spouse grow closer to God and closer to each other over a one month period. And that ebook is totally free and you can find the link to that in the show notes.

[Ashley Willis]

That's right. And today we're going to talk about communication. What is communication supposed to look like in the Naked Marriage? So let's dive into today's episode.

[Dave Willis]

And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

[Ashley Willis]

Well, let me tell you, we always like to say on here, and you've probably heard us say it many times if you've listened for a number of years to this podcast. But most marital issues are communication issues.

[Dave Willis]

True.

[Ashley Willis]

And so we're gonna talk about living out the naked marriage when it comes to communication. Because if you can get this right, it really affects every aspect of the naked marriage.

[Dave Willis]

Yeah, it really does. Communication does for your marriage what breathing does for your lungs. So a marriage where there's no communication is an oxymoron. Like you cannot have it. You cannot have the partnership, the friendship, the connection that God designed for marriage. If you're not communicating, it's the lifeline keeping the two of you together. And it's more than just communicating facts back and forth. It's sharing your hearts with one another, sharing your feelings, your desires, your struggles, sharing encouragement, sharing accountability and doing it all without secrecy because like we said in the last episode, that's a big part of the naked marriage. Hiding nothing from one another. The secret free guarantee. And we went into marriage kind of wide eyed and naive, thinking we got this part down. There might be some other stuff that we struggle with. And we did struggle with that other stuff too. But we got communication down because we majored in communication in college. So we pretty much thought we were world experts. But let me tell you, that major didn't turn out to be as practical for our marriage as I thought it would be because we had a lot to learn.

[Ashley Willis]

We did. Which is so ironic. It's so funny that we both have degrees in communication. I mean, Dave actually has a master's degree in communication and he's taught communication. He's been a professor and all those things. But I think God, you know, in his mercy and also with a sense of humor, he will just very, very gently tap us on the shoulder and be like, guys, you know, pride comes before a fall. And boy did we fall. Like in the beginning, we were just stepping on each other's toes and constantly kind of having miscommunication. I, for whatever reason, I really was convinced that the longer we were married, the less words we would have to use in marriage because Dave would just know. Or I would even think, like, well, he should know. Like, he's a grown man. Or, you know, he's probably thought, well, she's a grown woman, she should know, you know. And so we just found ourselves at odds a lot because we were assuming that the other knew what we were meaning by not saying it. And I did this a lot more than you did. But there were certainly times where he ran into the same problem too. And so I remember one time in particular, Dave came to me and he was just like, Ashley, he's like, I can tell you are so frustrated with me. But he goes, I just don't know what it is. Like, I mean, he's like, I feel like we've got to talk about things or we're not gonna get anywhere. And. And I'm like, what do you mean? You know? Cause then I was kind of convinced too. And I blame Hallmark movies, even though I love them. But I was convinced too that, well, I mean, if he really loved me, he would just figure it out.

[Dave Willis]

And he would like the guy in the Hallmark movie.

[Ashley Willis]

Yeah. Who has a script. He's not even a real person.

[Dave Willis]

Right, exactly. He has a script.

[Ashley Willis]

And I just. And then I thought too, well, I don't want to rock the boat. And so I'm just not going to act like I have any issue with anything, and I'm just going to stuff it down. And if he doesn't figure it out, I guess I'll just deal with it, and we'll just live in this dynamic that I'm really disappointed with.

[Dave Willis]

And.

[Ashley Willis]

And so around and around we go. Okay. And we did that many, many times. And all I found was that I was getting frustrated, he was getting frustrated. And that we would eventually end up fighting over something and realizing at the end of the day, we wanted the same thing, but not really knowing how to communicate. And so we knew that we had to actually. We had to learn, like, from people who knew about communication. And so we read some books. Eventually, too, we ended up in counseling, which really helped. And, you know, really what. Ultimately, we'll get more into this down the road on the podcast. And we have had podcast episodes about this. But, like, one of the reasons we went to counseling was to actually learn how to navigate some really difficult in law dynamics and family dynamics. But what we found in counseling was one of our issues was really not knowing how to communicate in a proper way with each other. And I think one of the best things we did was meet with a counselor, because it really opened that door to, like, hey, you don't have to keep stepping on each other's toes and assuming and miscommunicating. Like, you actually have to sit down, slow it down, and talk to each other. Speaking the truth in love.

[Dave Willis]

Yeah. And just being willing to reach out for help.

[Ashley Willis]

Yes.

[Dave Willis]

I think asking for help is sometimes one of the most difficult, but one of the most transformative things you can do. And that's the step a lot of couples never get to because they're like, we're just gonna figure this out on our own. And you let pride get in the way, and you don't ask for help. And this is true of every part of life. I was listening to an interview recently with the singer Jelly Roll, and Jelly Roll's great. And he talked about his lifelong struggle with obesity and food addiction and how he was really near death, his health had gotten so bad, and he had tried to figure this out on his own, and his pride just never let him ask for help. But he realized the hardest thing that I can do, the most important thing that I can do is is simply ask for help, to say, I can't figure this out on my own. And he said, the moment I did that, things started to change, and I started Learning from people that knew things I didn't. I started having help and support. And he's lost several hundred pounds. He's getting so skinny, his friends are calling him veggie roll. He said, now it's the same in marriage. Like, if you are struggling with communication, with parenting, with sex, with any part of marriage, it's great that you're. I mean, in some ways, you're asking for help by listening to this podcast. It's showing wisdom. You're learning from others. It's something that we try to do constantly. We're continuing to learn about all things, including marriage. But it might come to a point where this isn't enough, and you need additional personalized help. You need to reach out to a counselor, to a mentor, to a pastor, to a friend, to one of the coaches here at XO to do an intensive to somebody who can come alongside you and give you that help that you need. And the moment you'll get to that point, it really can make a difference. And we've had to do this. Like Ashley's already mentioned, we've done it through counseling. We've done it through mentors. When we came to an impasse in our communication about parenting, we could not get on the same page with parenting. We decided to reach out to an older couple at church who their kids were. Were grown, and they weren't a perfect family, but they were a healthy family. And we asked them if they would just come over for dinner and answer our questions about parenting. And they were so honored to come and share what they learned. And then they continued to be encouragers to us even after that. And it was so freeing to know, like, hey, we don't have to figure this out on our own. So, guys, you don't have to figure out all your marriage stuff on your own. Everybody has issues in their relationship. And if you get stuck because you scroll through Instagram and you see everybody's highlight reels and you think everybody else has got it figured out but us, that's not true. Everybody has their own struggles when you look beyond the highlight reels and the filters. But the couples that are truly healthy most of the time are the ones who figured this out, that I'm never going to be too proud to ask for help. I'm gonna keep learning, keep growing, not let my pride get in the way. And I think that's the way.

[Ashley Willis]

It is the way. And I think one of the best things that we did that helped our marriage, kind of towards the beginning of our marriage, was being part of a small group, and that's looked different. We've continued that in different seasons of our marriage. But being in a small group that either is working on strengthening your marriage, that's beautiful. A lot of churches offer this, and they go through different curriculums to strengthen your marriage. But also, even being part of a group with other married couples from different seasons of marriage, where you're maybe doing something with them, like doing a certain ministry together. Like, for example, early in our marriage, we were part of a youth ministry at a church, and it was all made up of couples, but we weren't all in the same season of marriage. Like, we had people who were about 10 years ahead of us in marriage. And just even without them realizing it, us watching them and learning from them really made an impression on us, because it's always good to be able to learn from people who are a little further ahead of you, and especially if you feel like they have, you know, a pretty strong marriage. I mean, no perfect marriages are out there, but somebody that you would like to emulate, because you can really learn a lot from a person when you're serving and doing life together. And we certainly did when we were part of the lighthouse ministry over at Northeast Christian Church in Lexington, Kentucky. And I'm forever grateful to those people. In fact, we were on a walk during a visit, I think, one Thanksgiving recently, and we're just out walking. It was freezing, you know, and we live in Georgia now, so we're like wimps. And we had on all this stuff. But one of those people recognized us, the Hayes family. And he was like, hey, hey. And he came up to us, and he was like, guys, it's me. You know? And it was just like he was one of those people. Him and his wife Robin, like, really made an impression on us. And they didn't know it at the time, but they were about 10 years ahead of us in their marriage. And, like, I think about them, I think about watching them and how they related to each other, how they related to their kids.

[Dave Willis]

And they were clearly best friends with each other.

[Ashley Willis]

Best friends.

[Dave Willis]

They had a lot of fun in their marriage. And look for mentors that enjoy each other. Right?

[Ashley Willis]

Absolutely.

[Dave Willis]

I think somewhere along the way, we started thinking, like, oh, well, marriage isn't about fun. Well, it's about a lot more than just fun, but fun should be a part of it. Mentor I have now and a friend, Brad Rhodes, who leads the in Maryland. Yeah.

[Ashley Willis]

They lead a salt of the earth

[Dave Willis]

organization called Grace Marriage, which is a great organization that does, like, curriculum and stuff for churches. But he part of his mission is like, I'm just trying to help people have fun in their marriage because so many people are just like not enjoying each other and I'm thinking I'd rather be hanging out with my wife than doing anything on earth. Like, and I can't imagine not living that way. And they really live that. And so it's infectious to be around them because they really live it and love that. And so I want to be that way too. And I want to encourage you to find some mentors like that where again, it's about more than fun. You have to have depth. You're going to go through hard times no matter what. But even in the hard season of marriage, you got to be able to laugh, you have to be able to keep your sense of humor and you have to communicate. And coming back specifically to this communication part, I think if you're having that mutually respectful fun, we're best friends, we're partners mentality, then a few things are gonna be off the table. You're gonna decide in advance. We're not gonna insult each other, we're not going to cuss at each other, we're not gonna name call each other. You just have to have some things that you both decide like this is out of bounds and I don't care if we grew up in homes where this happened. I don't care if we even did this in our own past. These things have to be out of bounds. I would also encourage you to make a policy of like, we're not going to ever argue or talk about anything of real importance via text message because

[Ashley Willis]

hey, say that again, sweetie, say it. I'm serious, say it again. So many this is a big deal.

[Dave Willis]

Dumb marriage arguments are the result of you're talking about important stuff via text message where you can't read into tone, you can't read into like all of the non verbals. It's a toxic way to have an important conversation. It's brilliant for sending funny memes back and forth and tiktoks and stuff, which Ashley and I do all to make each other laugh. You know, like I'll be in the bathroom and just sitting there like oh, you gotta look at this one. It's hilarious and it's great for texting that kind of stuff. Or quick check ins or hey, what time are you gonna be home and all that. But people have these like typing out multi paragraph things and emotionally charged and I'm like, this is ridiculous. This is your spouse. Like talk to each other. And it's gonna get you to a solution so much faster. It's gonna avoid unnecessary miscommunication. So, you guys, a lot of the frustration people have in marriage is in just doing things that are making it harder than it has to be. Right?

[Ashley Willis]

No, I'm so glad you talked about that, because I do think we live in a world where this is happening more. And this isn't to make fun of that, because I can see where you can get into that. I can see it. And I just want to add this. He's talking about text messages, which are private between the two of you. But I've also seen this on social media. Like, I've seen where husbands and wives take it public and go to Facebook. They go to Instagram. Comments. Like, sometimes on our posts on Instagram or Facebook, there will be couples that will have a fight with each other, and that is just completely out of bounds. You guys. Like, that's embarrassing. It's just below the belt. Don't do that. You're not doing yourself or your spouse any favors. But back to the texting. I had a couple that I was counseling with, and they kept on finding, like, they would find their footing as a couple, and then something would go a little sideways, and they would text each other. They would do exactly what you were saying. They would send, even in the same house, long text messages. And in their mind, I remember in talking with the wife, she said, well, I want to make sure that I get everything out, like, so I get where she's coming from. And I was like, I want you to take that off of your phone and put it in a journal. And then I want you to go and sit with your husband face to face and actually talk to him. Because what you will find is some of those things that you feel like, have to be said. Bring those before the Lord. First. Look at it in a journal and then edit it and realize what really is going on with you guys and then bring it to him in conversation. Stop having these very important conversations over text. And what do you know over time when they stop just that one thing you're talking about? It's been so much. They've had so much more peace in their home. And really, she said, there's been so much more understanding because they're actually able to talk it out. Because what was happening with him is he would get this text from her, and he would see this huge, like, onslaught of words, and he would just glaze over and immediately get flooded with emotion and be angry. And not even want to read the

[Dave Willis]

whole thing, you know, yeah, sure.

[Ashley Willis]

And so it wasn't helping either one of them. And so that is a huge part of communicating in a healthy way.

[Dave Willis]

Right. And not just in marriage, like, and that's something.

[Ashley Willis]

Oh, you're right.

[Dave Willis]

I've had to learn kind of the hard way because we lean into wherever we feel strong. And I feel like I can write out my words or my argument or whatever in a way that's more compelling sometimes than I could sit down in the moment and say. And so I've had even work conversations, send out super long emails or texts that I know on the other end. Now I'm becoming more self aware to know they're just rolling their eyes like, oh my gosh, Dave, chill with these things. And so I've tried to back off of that. Because communication, it's not just the message you send. You have to think about it from the perspective of how the message is being received.

[Ashley Willis]

Yes.

[Dave Willis]

Because that's really what communication is, is the message received. And if it's not being received in the right way or if it's too much or whatever, you just have to be mindful of those things. But especially in marriage, give the best of your communication to your spouse and always speak Ephesians 4. 32. Again, the Bible is the ultimate guidebook for all these things. Be kind and compassionate to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you. And man. That one verse is so profound as it relates to how to communicate. Another great verse from Proverbs says a gentle answer deflects wrath, but harsh words stir up anger. And man, that one verse could save your marriage from a lot of unnecessary fights. It's like when things are getting emotionally charged, if you answer with gentleness, it can help diffuse the situation and lead to a solution. You, if you answer it in an emotionally charged way, it's like throwing gasoline on that fire.

[Ashley Willis]

It really is. And I think just even hold like waiting five seconds before you just give a response right back. Like take a deep breath, slowly count to five to yourself. That can really help to regulate your system. If you're feeling a little bit on edge and it can really save you from saying hurtful things. And if five seconds isn't long enough, make it 10, make it 15, maybe you excuse yourself and say, listen, I'm feeling really just overwhelmed right now and really angry. I don't want to say things I don't mean. Can you give me 15 minutes? Because I'm going To go take a walk. I'm going to go take a drive. I'm going to go pray for, you know, a little bit in my room, whatever that looks like. It's so important that we take that time, but we don't leave each other hanging. See, that's the kicker is if you need time to process, because, you know, likely the two of you process things differently. And I know in our marriage, we, like. I like to usually talk things out in real time, process my feelings. So I'm not always looking for a solution. I'm kind of just needing a listening ear. And Dave knows that about me now. But in the beginning of our marriage, he would be, like, trying to fix it. And I'm like, no, no. I just want to talk about it. And he's like, but there's this solution over here. I'm seeing and what you're saying, I'm like, no, no, no. Like, just hear me out. And it would frustrate him. And in the same way I would frustrate her. Yeah. Because he wouldn't have. Like, sometimes I would have an issue that I needed to talk to you about, and you would look at me like deer in headlights.

[Dave Willis]

Right. Cause you would have all this stuff to share. And I'm just looking at her not saying anything, and I'm thinking to myself, like, this is so many words. I don't know how to process all of it. And she was communicating, trying to connect. I am feeling overwhelmed and flooded by just the volume of all of it and not wanting to say the wrong thing in the moment. And so me being silent as I'm processing, she took as, oh, he doesn't care as much as I do because he's not even saying anything.

[Ashley Willis]

Right. Like, he's just not listening. He doesn't care.

[Dave Willis]

And really, it was both of us just processing it differently. And everybody has their own unique style and just neurological wiring for how we process communication, how we process disagreements. Some people want to face it right then they want to jump into it right then.

[Ashley Willis]

That's usually me.

[Dave Willis]

Yeah. And then other people need to step away and really take some time to process it. Not forever. Not just keep hitting the snooze button on it, but take some time, clear their head, gather their thoughts, and then return to it, which is more my approach. And you need to make room for each other. And it's gonna take both of you stepping out of your comfort zone a little bit to meet in the middle.

[Ashley Willis]

Yes. Cause neither one of those is wrong.

[Dave Willis]

No, it's not.

[Ashley Willis]

You actually need both. And sometimes the situation you're facing may require one of those or the other. Right? And so what we learn from this, and what I often tell couples, and Dave will tell couples, too, is that we need to honor each other in our different ways of processing things. But so, like, let me give an example. So let's say that I've really got something on my heart, and I tell Dave a little bit of it, but he's getting really flooded with emotion over it because maybe he feels offended by what I said, or he feels like maybe I'm seeing it wrongly or whatever that looks like. Instead of me just pushing him to have this conversation right now, he can tell me, listen, you know, Ashley, I value what you have to say. I'm trying to understand it and get my head around it and my emotions around it. Can I go take 30 minutes? Or maybe it's longer. Maybe I can just think on this and pray on it until tonight. And then the two of you say, let's agree on this time. Let's agree on 4pm or whatever, and we're gonna talk about it then. And if for some reason, one of you can't find the energy, the wherewithal, the emotions aren't in check at that time, then you talk to each other about it and say, well, maybe it can happen at 4, but it's gonna happen at 6. But you just don't keep prolonging it. And you, like, have an actual time so that both of you are feeling seen and honored in that moment. Right? Like, the one who really needs to talk about it isn't just, you know, being spun a story and being put off, but the one who needs time is getting that time. And so it's just. It all comes down to really honoring each other and how we're wired and not expecting to change the other person. And I was so guilty of this. Like, I'm like, no, no, no. When we know how to communicate, we do it now. And I've realized, like, no, no. Like, there's a lot of ways to communicate in a healthy way. And I don't want to just keep forcing you to give me an answer when you're not even able to process it. Like, that's unfair to you and frankly, to me, because then I'm never really getting a true answer from you. And I want to know what's on your heart.

[Dave Willis]

And you never want to assume that, you know, like, that communication is not necessary because, well, I already know. I know what she's thinking. I know what he's thinking. I read a study that was actually kind of depressing. That said, the demographic of couples who are least likely to accurately guess what their spouse is thinking are the couples who've been married the longest. And the research dug in to say that they think the reason why is that over time, a lot of couples, maybe most couples, get into this lack of communication habit, where at the beginning, they were communicating about everything, wanting to learn everything they could about each other. But then over time, they started to think, well, I already know the answer to that. I already know how she would respond. I already know what he wants, what he likes. But the whole time, they're both changing. Life is changing. The circumstances are changing. New challenges. Like we're becoming different versions of ourselves all the time. I mean, not at the core of who we are, but in our response to things, in our desires and our fears and all of it. And if we're not constantly connected. With communication, you're growing into two different people, and you'll become two strangers if you're not careful. And I think that's part of why there's an epidemic of older couples getting divorced, especially like new empty nesters, where you've been focused on the kids. It's been all about them. All your communication has been about logistics and who's picking up who and all that. And then all of a sudden, your kids grow up, they're out of the house. The one assignment that was keeping the two of you connected and communicating is now gone. You realize you don't even know who the other one is anymore. And so many couples are calling it quits, which is so sad. And it doesn't have to be that way. In fact, it can't be that way. We have to do better. And it means staying connected through communication in every step. I think it's the single most important aspect of marriage. I think it's more important than sex. I think it's more important than maybe anything else. Because if you're not communicating, then none of those other things are gonna fix it.

[Ashley Willis]

Right?

[Dave Willis]

Right. So you could connect sexually and have a great experience there in a physical sense. But if you're not connected emotionally through communication, then that alone is pretty hollow. Now, if that's an overflowing of the connection you have for one another through communication, then it's only gonna make things a lot stronger. But there's no substitute for communication.

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[Ashley Willis]

Cause communication is the very thing that keeps connection going. And those are the two huge things that usually are right at the top of a Marriage breaking down. Right. It usually starts with those two things together. And I think, too, you know, we haven't talked a lot about this, but we will continue as we. As we talk about the naked marriage in subsequent episodes. But when it comes to communication, it's really important as Christians that we also, you know, we take these struggles we're having to the Lord, and we take those to the Lord individually through our own individual prayer lives. But we also take them to the Lord as a couple, because there's such power in praying out loud together. In fact, I mean, there's been all these studies on couples who pray out loud. I just saw a recent one. Couples who pray out loud together regularly have a less than 1% chance of divorce. Less than 1%. I mean, Dave, that's crazy.

[Dave Willis]

It is.

[Ashley Willis]

That is crazy.

[Dave Willis]

I've seen that stat multiple places, and I firmly believe it. I've never personally known a couple get divorced that were actively, every day praying together. I've never known it. And I've known a lot of people through the years that have gotten divorced, sadly.

[Ashley Willis]

But, I mean, I thought that was incredible.

[Dave Willis]

It is. Yeah.

[Ashley Willis]

I'm not surprised. But that stat is just. So you're saying, like, 99% will stay married? Over 99. I guess over 99% will stay married. I mean, if you're gonna flip kind of the. But that's just incredible. And I know that's something that early on in our marriage that you really were like, sweetie, we need to do this. And at first, because David had just a lot more ministry experience. He'd been a Christian longer than I had been a Christian, knew the Bible more than I knew the Bible at the time. And I just felt really inadequate. And I had kind of believed that. That lie of the enemy, I think, because I do. We know we have an enemy of our souls. We have an enemy of our marriages. Because marriage was God's idea, obviously. And he's whispering that lie that, like, oh, you don't need to do that. It's embarrassing anyway. You just, you know, you do you. And I think that the reason so many of us, like myself, felt, you know, we feel really intimidated is because Satan knows how powerful this is. And of course, he doesn't want couples to do it. Right. And I remember I really had to push against that. Cause it felt a little odd to me. I'd never done that, you know. But now, I mean, every night, you'll pray out loud over us. And I just love that there's times I do that, and there's times. It doesn't have to be at night. I mean, we'll just do it on a car ride, like, lord, please help us with this, or whatever. But it just. It's become a huge part of our marriage and has been a huge part of our marriage, really all of our marriage. But that was something where I had to really overcome my fear of sounding stupid or biblically illiterate. And I just thought, oh, I won't have the words. But God's really, you know, worked on my confidence in that. And really I realized it's just talking to God, our Father, who wants to hear from us. We don't have to have the perfect words. It's not about that. It's really about submitting our lives to him and humbling ourselves towards God and towards one another. And I always say this like, it's really hard to stay mad at your spouse and pray for them at the same time. And if you don't believe me, I dare you to do it. Just do it. Try it.

[Dave Willis]

Just try.

[Ashley Willis]

And your circumstances may not change at all, but God will soften your heart because that's what he does when a couple prays together. And so I would, you know, as far as your communication, let that be a big part of your marriage, because that's going to keep. That's gonna keep your hearts tethered, you know, to the Lord first and foremost, but also to each other. But it really enables us to have those soft hearts that it talks about in the Bible, which we're gonna need through some really hard times, because it's so easy to turn on each other and see each other as, oh, you're the problem. You know, if only you changed, if only you did this, we'd be through this thing. And once we get there, even if some of that is true, you know, it's not gonna help us when we see each other as the enemy. We have to realize we're on the same team, and we're either gonna win together or lose together. And how we win together is we keep on going towards the Lord. We keep on humbling ourselves towards him and towards one another, and we keep on talking in a healthy way.

[Dave Willis]

So good. So good, guys. I hope you enjoyed that conversation. And most importantly, we hope it sparks some healthy conversations in your marriage. That's really the goal of all these episodes, is to get the two of you talking in a deeper way. We always end an episode with a question. You can submit a question to us to potentially be read on the air. You can do That a number of ways. You can write us on Instagram, aveandashleywillis or go to nakedmarriagepodcast.com Today's question is a complicated one. Okay, It's a good one. Says, I'm really attracted to one of my husband's friends. I would just avoid him altogether, but it would make things even more awkward. I don't want to tell my husband because I don't want to hurt his feelings. I hate that I have this attraction. What should I do? So, yeah, I mean, there's a lot there, right? Because I'll say this first. Like, attraction in itself, being attracted to someone in itself isn't a sin. You can't help that you notice someone is attractive or that you feel a connection, you feel a draw to them. What we do with that feeling, with that thought is really the key. Like, if we let that thought turn into fantasy, that is toxic. That becomes sin. If we let that thought become something it shouldn't. But noticing, like, hey, I feel attraction to this person, which means I need to be careful around this person. But free yourself up from thing. Like, if I ever notice someone else is attractive, it means that I'm. Now, if we let that go from noticing to, like, actively lusting and fantasizing, of course that's a completely different conversation. But if you have this feeling that you can't escape and it's with somebody that you can't totally avoid, what do you do with that man?

[Ashley Willis]

I mean, so it's her husband's friend, okay, who's around a lot, and she doesn't see, she doesn't want to tell her husband because she doesn't want to hurt his feelings. I mean, I know that's a hard thing to do. I'm wondering. I wish I had more to this story because I feel like there's more to the context of this story. But I'm with you, sweetie. Like, I think that if you just think somebody's attractive or, you know, you enjoy talking to them, that in and of itself isn't bad. But if this has turned to, like, fantasy, like, it's keeping you up at night, it's distracting you, it's bringing, like, on nervousness. And it's like, something that the enemy is using to mess with you. I think that. And it's, like, been like, a consistent thing. I think that's where, you know, you might need to go ahead and confess this to your husband because it's becoming like, a stronghold in your life.

[Dave Willis]

Any kind of secret. Like, I understand she's like, I don't want to hurt him.

[Ashley Willis]

Right. I get it.

[Dave Willis]

And if you just say like, every, Every person, every. Oh, I think they're attractive. I think they're. I mean, that could like, chip away at your secrets.

[Ashley Willis]

Exactly. Right.

[Dave Willis]

So there's a difference between deception and discretion. We want to have no secrets, but we don't have to like every thought that comes in our heads. We don't have to verbalize. You know, we have. But if something is lingering, like it appears to be with her, I think it's to the point where it would be wise to tell your husband to say, listen, like, I would never act on this. You're the only one for me. I love you more than you can imagine. But I just don't want there to be any ever secrets between us. And if you ever notice that I'm like acting weird around this friend, it's because I just have this feeling, this unwanted feeling of attraction to him. I'm just, you know, I just feel that. And so I try to kind of avoid him. I know he's a great guy and he's a great friend of yours, and I'm thankful for that. And I think this is just kind of like, just a weird little splinter in my brain that I haven't been able to totally get out. But I just want to share that with you. One, for accountability and honesty. Two, to remind you that I'm never gonna hold any secret back from you that could come between us. And three, just so you have some context, if I. If I kind of leave the room or whatever when this guy's around, and maybe you could kind of even help cover for me, because I don't want anything, even just a random thought in my own head to be a wedge between us.

[Ashley Willis]

I love that. Sweetie, I know that's a hard conversation, but I really feel like when it becomes like this distraction, like I said, if we add more to the context, maybe it isn't as it hasn't turned into total full on fantasy distraction, but it sounds like it has. And if it has, that is becoming. You know, what the Bible refers to as maybe a stronghold where it's holding you even back from your husband and it's messing with you and you're having all these unwanted feelings. And that is where confession is so powerful. It talks about that in the book of James and, you know, confession first and foremost to the Lord. I mean, he already knows, but he wants us to bring things like this to him first and surrendering it to him, but then Telling it to your husband, it's like kind of unlocking the door that's got you feeling like you're in this cage and you don't know where to go. You don't know what to do, you know? Cause we don't make good decisions when we're in panic. But I know the enemy's whispered lies to her. Like, you know what? It's just gonna hurt his feelings. This is your issue to deal with. But yet she's feeling trapped by it. And so that confession would be something to help her feel untrapped by this. And it's out in the open, and it doesn't have that power over you anymore. But I would also encourage her to keep praying to the Lord, like, lord, please remove this desire. Help me to only have a desire for my husband. I don't want to be distracted by this and just say, lord, help me break free from this. I think that it's really twofold, you know, when it comes to that. Praying to the Lord, first, surrendering it to him, but also, you know, going to the husband and confessing it.

[Dave Willis]

And I would. I like to do little. Little mental games with, you know, unwanted images in my mind. So, like, anytime you see him or anytime he comes to mind, just picture a giant booger hanging out of his nose.

[Ashley Willis]

There you go.

[Dave Willis]

Every time.

[Ashley Willis]

Big old boog.

[Dave Willis]

Like, you can't even see him without. And then all of a sudden, it'd be a little less attractive. So you're welcome. Feel free to use that.

[Ashley Willis]

Hey, mind is powerful.

[Dave Willis]

Mind is powerful.

[Ashley Willis]

We can do those things. That's right. God gives us that power to take those thoughts captive.

[Dave Willis]

So, yeah, help us continue to grow this family by spreading the word, posting on social media, texting a friend, liking, subscribing. We love and appreciate you, and we'll see you next.

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[Dave Willis]

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