A (3:18)

So la. Okay, correct me if I'm wrong. Last time it was, we spoke all about 13 things mentally strong People Do. That was your book back in 2018.

B (3:28)

Yes. 13 things mentally strong People Don't Do.

A (3:31)

Don't do. Okay, what's with this number 13? They seem to be all over your bookshelf right now.

B (3:38)

I know everybody always asks that, so there's really no magic in the number 13. It was just I wrote a letter to myself about what mentally strong people don't do. There happen to be 13 on the list.

A (3:48)

And.

B (3:49)

And then I published it. They went viral. I think the number 13 probably helped it go viral. And then since then, we've just stuck with that. Like, how do you become a mentally strong parent? Here's 13 things mentally strong Parents don't do. What women don't do. And then I wrote a kids one, and then my most recent one is the 13 Things Mentally Strong Couples Don't Do.

A (4:06)

Wow. That's going to be probably the biggest hit, because I know that you do a lot of science and research that goes behind everything that you talk about. I know you're not just pulling them out of just nowhere, these 13 things. And correct me if I'm wrong, I read a statistic about the divorce rate recently. I think it's. What is. Is it one in six now, or am I just. I don't know.

B (4:29)

Is that a. Yeah, I think. I think that's a fairly accurate statistic.

A (4:34)

Okay, so this is why I think your book is going to be pretty amazing for those couples who are struggling in their relationship to, I guess, stay mentally fit and strong together.

B (4:45)

I hope so, because nobody really talks that much about mental strength or about healthy relationships. We don't talk about this stuff nearly enough.

A (4:52)

Yeah. I had relationship therapist Jillian Tureki on the podcast back in August, and a lot of people, you know, you guys listening from the community were like, oh, how come you're bringing on a couple therapists? It's like, because that's part of human performance. You know, the neuro experience, which is powered by neuro athletics, where we talk about human performance, reaching your peak physiological potential. I literally do not think you can do that without having the emotional health pillar in place.

B (5:23)

Right. They say that in terms of our occupation too. Like, the number one thing that has to do with your career success is actually your partner's personality. If you marry somebody who is supportive of your career, it obviously makes your life way easier and people tend to be a lot more successful.

A (5:41)

But you just said your partner's personality. Not if they support your career.

B (5:47)

So if they, if they have a personality that's like agreeable, conscientious, and they're doing those things because of their personality. So then they might help make sure that you're ready for your day. They might ask you about your day. They're doing those things that because of their personality would make them cheer you on. And that's what can really help support your career.

A (6:09)

I love that. Well, I'm going to open up with a question about anxiety. Now. All anxiety is simply when worrying takes place. And then if we don't stop that worrying and we don't stop those intrusive thoughts, they then become some sort of huge attack, if we will. So how do you, in your research and in your book, how do you help people overcome those ruminating thoughts where it's just that anxiety loop that just keeps going on and on and on and it festers like you're down in a well. How do you stop those thoughts?

B (6:48)

Oh, so I love this question because there's so many things that, that can work, and the same thing might not work for everybody, but when somebody starts worrying about something, they're thinking all of the potential what ifs? What if that doesn't work out? What if this person misbehaves? What if I fail? You feel worse. The worse you feel, the more likely you are to think negative. The more negative you think, the less likely you are to take any positive action. That's what that creates that loop. So a few things can work. One is if somebody's a chronic worrier and a lot of people come into my therapy office saying, I just worry about everything and anything all the time. The exercise I'll often prescribe is to schedule time to worry, which means we're going to take 15 minutes a day and you're going to worry. And you put it on the calendar so you might decide you're going to worry from 7 to 7:15 every evening. And when your worry time comes around, sit down and worry. And then when your time's up, get up and go do something else. And then the trick is, whenever you catch yourself worrying outside of that time, you just remind yourself, it's not time to worry yet. I'll worry about that later. And that's the really the key. But it usually takes about two weeks of practicing that. But after about two weeks, people will say, I feel like the weight of the world has been lifted off of my shoulders. Like, suddenly I can pay attention to what's going on in front of me because I don't feel like I have to worry about everything all the time. I know I'm going to worry about that. And then when your worry time comes around, you just worry your little heart out. But as long as you give yourself permission and you put it in your calendar, it works. And there's tons of research behind it where people have found about 15 to 20 minutes a day of worrying is really all you need to satisfy that desire. Because a lot of people will say, I can't not worry, because what if I didn't worry about something and then I didn't plan ahead? Or if I try not to worry at all, it just makes it worse. So give yourself permission to do it. It's almost like an exposure therapy strategy. But when people practice that and they stick to it, it's really tough to do for the first couple weeks. But after you get over that hurdle of the first couple weeks, for a lot of people, it kind of then becomes second nature to say, I'm going to worry about that later.

A (8:50)

Well, that's okay. That's. That's an amazing strategy, right. For somebody like me who has some. I don't know what it is. I think it's been inherited. My grandmother used to worry 24. 7. My mother worries 24. 7. I worry 24. 7 sometimes about, like, things that are not really even happening or true. And then sometimes I trick my brain into thinking that they are real and these catastrophic events. So what about for those who are like, okay, great, Amy, I'm gonna have, like, 15 minutes of worry time at 11:00am every morning. But what happens when those thoughts do start to come in at 2pm and 3pm and we're ruminating for 45 minutes?

B (9:31)

So the first strategy would be to say, I'm gonna worry about that tomorrow at 11am if you really can't get it out of your brain, though, another strategy that works is what we call change the channel in your brain. So we Know when we try to not think about something, it actually makes it worse. So I'll do this exercise with people in my therapy office where I'll say, I'm going to give you 30 seconds and I want you to think about white bears. Ready, set, go. Just white bears, big white bears, little white bears, stuffed white bears, polar bears, I don't care. But go ahead, think about white bears as much as you can for 30 seconds. You give them 30 seconds, time's up, and then you say, okay, now think about absolutely anything you want for 30 seconds. But whatever you do, don't think about white bears. Ready, set, go. Set the timer for 30 seconds. When that 30 seconds is over, you give one last exercise. That's all. Go through the Alphabet backwards as fast as you can in 30 seconds. Ready, set, go. So then what happens in this exercise? So the first part of that is think about white bears as much as you can. People are like, yeah, no problem. I thought about all sorts of white bears. The second part, when I say, think about anything you want, but don't think about white bears, people are always like, you know, I was planning what I was going to have for lunch, I was thinking about what I was going to do later, and then this white bear popped into my head. And that inevitably happens almost every time. And then we say, well, what happened when you went through the Alphabet backwards? Suddenly they're like, actually, I forgot all about the white bear because they gave their brain an activity to do. So when we're worried about something, let's say you had a bad day at work and it's seven o' clock and you keep rehashing this conversation in your head and you say, oh, just don't think about that. I guarantee you'll keep thinking about it. But if you can change the channel in your brain, which at home, you're probably not just going to go through the Alphabet backwards, but you might say, you know, I'm going to give myself 10 minutes to clean up my bedroom, or I'm going to call a friend and I'm going to talk about something completely different for 10 minutes. Or I'm going to walk around the block and listen to different music that might shift my mood and get my mind off of it, work in my garden. But you come up with an activity, usually that gets you physically moving and one that changes your environment and occupies your brain a little bit to change the channel. And then when you shift your focus, usually your anxiety will go down a little bit. And then when you're done doing that thing to change the channel, you're less likely to go back to ruminating on it because you actually feel better. It's when we're in that heightened state of alert that we just keep ruminating and thinking. So you want to break out of that cycle.

A (11:49)

Wow, that is amazing. I actually was just thinking so much about polar bears when I'm like, polar bear. And then you said, white stuffed bears. That's such a. A wonderful exercise. And I'm going to be using that. I'm literally going to use that every day. Because that's like, that's phenomenal.

B (12:07)

Because sometimes we think like, oh, I'm solving the problem, or if I think about this longer and harder, I'll come up with a better solution. There's actually no evidence that shows that. In fact, let's say you have a problem, you're behind on your bills, and you want to figure out how to. How to either earn more money or get out of debt. Thinking about it longer and harder probably won't lead to a better solution. What we know does lead to a better solution is taking a break and study after study. When they tell people, like, solve this problem, people do okay at it. But when they say, here's a problem and now go take a break for 20 minutes, and then they come back and ask them for a solution, people almost always have better solutions. So even if you're really thinking hard about something, give your brain a break for a little bit. And a lot of times you come up with a better solution. We've probably all done that. When you're worried about something before you go to sleep, and then you wake up the next day and kind of like, the answer's right there, and you're not perseverating on it as much, you think, oh, yeah, this is what I'm gonna do, or it's not as big of a deal. Cause your brain is actually really good at solving a problem. When we let our brains work on it in the background rather than feeling like we have to concentrate on a.

A (13:11)

Solution, it's kind of like when we take a recovery from the gym, and then we come back and we're recovered and we feel stronger, but we often neglect the brain. The brain needs recovery, too. It's like the most important organ. Sorry, cardiologists. In my.

B (13:27)

In my Right.

A (13:29)

Okay, so, well, you're doing therapy. You've written this book for couples. We're talking about mentally strong. We're talking about ruminating thoughts. I'm guessing that the reason why you wrote this Was pretty much because you saw, okay, there's something happening in society. There's couples who are. Inevitably, marriages are failing. Right. And that's affecting people. The why the marriages are failing is. I don't. I don't know the why, but I'm guessing a lot of couples are coming into you, coming in to see you, to. What is it? To work on their marriages. And if it is, like, what are some of the things that are arising for these couples? Some of the.

B (14:10)

One of the biggest things, of course, these days is infidelity. And I think one of the biggest reasons for that is we have the inventions of the Internet. Right.

A (14:18)

I do now blame the Internet because it's where I spend most of my day. That's how I. I do what I do. I didn't want to blame Instagram, but I do know that that's the issue.

B (14:27)

Because one of the things is, is people feel like they have so many options now. Within an app, you could find 500 people that you think would be a better mate within about 30 seconds. We've never had that before in the history of humankind. It used to be you'd have to meet somebody face to face somewhere like the grocery store. Once you were paired up with somebody, it became much more difficult. Now there's so many things trying to tempt us to do that, and people will say, you know, I just, I. I love my partner, but yet I did this, or I made this mistake, or somebody finds out their partner was cheating in some way, shape, or form. There are disagreements over what constitutes cheating.

A (15:04)

Oh, really?

B (15:05)

One of the. Of course. Like, I was talking to my ex, but it was an innocent conversation, or this person, you know, the emotional affair kind of a deal. And I was finding that so many people are like, you know, I. I think my marriage would be better if we were mentally stronger or if I had more mental strength. So I surveyed people and I to get that answer. And 86% of people said, yes, I want to strengthen my marriage. And 86% of people said, and my marriage would be better if I were mentally stronger. So I wanted to create a couple's book that said, all right, how do you work on your mental strength? And how does your partner's mental strength affect you? How can you grow stronger if your partner isn't invested in doing that? And all of those things because we know our partnership affects our ability to be mentally strong on so many levels.

A (15:47)

Yeah. I mean, when you talk about infidelity, I'm sure that there's another one which may arise, which is literally just communication breakdowns as you get, as you go on. You know, in these marriages, communication breakdowns can be huge.

B (16:03)

They can. And again, not to blame technology, but a lot of people are getting into arguments over texting. Like I asked you, hey, did you remember to pick up the milk? Am I. Is that an insult or am I just asking the question? And people are misinterpreting those things. Or we make assumptions like, oh, you're nagging me again because you asked if I remembered to pick up milk on the way home. It's because you think I'm an idiot and therefore you don't respect me. And it's easy to go down that chain really quickly of thinking, making all of these assumptions and drawing inaccurate conclusions about our partners. And that's what opinion often happens in our communication. Your partner says something or doesn't say something, and we find meaning in it. There's some sort of symbolic meaning to the fact that you didn't say hi to me when you walked in the door or that you asked me a question like, did you remember to do the dishes today? And it's often those meanings that we. Then we don't ask the question, or we don't become direct enough, or we don't raise the issue with our partner. Instead, we make assumptions and then we make our next move based on that assumption that may or may not even have any factual basis to it.

A (17:10)

Yeah. And I guess that's why we need to be. This is why a lot of therapists say you have to be good within yourself before you can love another person. And it makes sense why you would need to be mentally strong to, you know, go through this journey, I call it war. Go through war with another individual for the rest of your life. You really need to be mentally strong. Not because it's another person and that's the only person for the rest of my life, but because, like so much happens that you don't want to get anything, you know, misaligned with the person you are going to war with on a daily basis.

B (17:52)

Right. And we know early on in the relationship we have all of these really good feel good hormones that attract us to the other person. And we feel great. You know, you don't sleep as much, you don't eat as much. You feel like you're on top of the world when you're falling in love. That shifts over time. And then it's much more difficult to stay connected and committed to somebody when you don't feel those intense feelings anymore. But we weren't meant to experience those intense feelings for decades. In fact, when they've looked at people who are in the earliest stages of love, their symptoms are very similar to somebody who is going through the manic phase of bipolar, where you feel like you don't need to eat or sleep, and it's almost like an addiction to drugs. They'll often say that because you develop a tolerance for the other person, initially you have something like a dependence. You experience withdrawal symptoms when they're not with you. And over time, that shifts and changes, and that's not a bad thing. That doesn't mean you aren't in love anymore. It means your relationship has matured. But at that point, it takes more effort and energy to say, this is worth fighting for. Even though we disagree on something, I'm still gonna stay committed to you, and here's how we're gonna work through our problems, even though there are days where maybe you don't feel like it.

A (19:05)

And I guess, you know, that analogy fits through a breakup, right? Because I've seen that, like, people who are going through a breakup can experience the same symptoms as a withdrawal from drugs. Why? It's so hot.

B (19:19)

Yeah, the. And the grief. And we don't talk enough about breakups and the emotions that people experience, but it's intense grief and sadness. And a lot of people come into therapy saying, gosh, I'm doing some things that are out of character for me, whether they're like Google stalking their ex, still looking on social media to see what their ex is doing, or they find themselves trying to sabotage the person.

A (19:42)

By the way, every single girl. I don't know about men, but every single girl does do that. That. I'm sorry. Unless they're like, I don't know part of the 1% who don't. But I know a lot of girls who are doing that well.

B (19:56)

And it makes sense, because when you are missing somebody and you're grieving them, you want to feel a sense of connection. So you look them up on social media, and it gives your brain that momentarily. Yes. Hit to then think, oh, you know, this is what they're doing. Or, they're home today. They're not out with somebody else, whatever it is. But. And then that becomes almost addictive as we keep checking to see what they're doing and we want to know. And it's almost. Almost like that gives us a break from the grief that we're feeling, too, so that we think, oh, now I feel connected to this person, so I don't feel quite as sad.

A (20:29)

And again, that is something that a mentally strong person wouldn't do. So you also have to be mentally strong to go through a breakup?

B (20:37)

Absolutely. It's about knowing, okay, this is tough, but yet that's part of the healing process. The grief, the sadness, the anger, the anxiety, all of those emotions help us heal and you have to go through them. It's our natural tendency to try to delay them or to avoid them in any way that we can by doing those things, but it just delays it and causes the suffering to, to be delayed. So sometimes you just got to go through the pain and figure out, how do I move through this now? And then I'll feel better sooner.

A (21:06)

Okay, I'm, I, I, I'm so excited. I want to know some of the, the, you don't have to give us all of the 13 things that mentally strong couples do, but can you give me, just give me like, the first three, because I'm super interested. And I, I, this is for all couples, Heterosexual, homosexual, all of them. Okay.

B (21:28)

Right. So they don't hesitate to set boundaries. And by that I mean boundaries. Is that number one with each other. It's, it's number three, I think, but it's one of the ones that people want to talk about the most since the books come out. So it's really about saying, here's the, here's my boundaries with you. I'm not going to give you my social media password, for example. But it's also about setting boundaries with the outside world. We're not going to let people just move in with us randomly or we're not going to loan out money. All of those boundaries that we set with people, super important to protect your relationship. Another one is that they, can I.

A (22:02)

Ask, is a boundary. So in relationships, there's boundaries and then there's non negotiables. Our boundaries are non negotiables. The same thing.

B (22:12)

They could be, but I don't think they always are. So sometimes boundaries are flexible. Early on, you might say, we're not going to loan money to relatives because we don't have a lot of money. But later in your marriage, you might say, actually, we're in a place now where if somebody in our family needs money, we're going to loan it. So your boundaries might change. Or you and your partner might decide early on, like, no, it's cute to share the same Facebook page or to have the same Instagram handle, and we're just going to share an account. At some point you might say, actually, that's not cool anymore. I want my own account so I can talk to my friends privately without you checking my dm so you might change your mind, and that's okay too. So boundaries can shift over time, whereas your non negotiables probably stay non negotiable.

A (22:54)

Yeah. And I guess an example that is a boundary. But an example of a non negotiable would be, hey, I want to have kids. And if the other person doesn't, then that's obviously not a boundary. That's a non negotiable.

B (23:03)

And that's one of those examples of things where you can't really split the difference. You want zero kids and your partner wants three. Like, let's not go with one or two. And neither person is happy.

A (23:13)

Okay, so num number three. That was boundaries. Okay, what's the second one?

B (23:19)

Another one is that they don't use their emotions as weapons. Oh, and this is a big one, because people will say, well, I can't help it that I cry, or I can't help it that I lose my temper. But when we really peel back the layers, they'll say, well, I started crying during that conversation because I was uncomfortable and I didn't want the conversation to continue. And it might be true that the person felt sad, but they may have cried on purpose because they knew that's the best way to get their partner to stop talking. Or I see this with anxiety as well. Somebody will say, well, I can't make my own appointments because I have anxiety about making phone calls. So they get their partner to do it for them, and instead of saying, I'm going to work through my anxiety, I'm going to get better at this. It's more of a manipulation tactic to get out of the things that they don't want to do.

A (24:08)

That's interesting, using emotions as weapons. And that that definitely is okay. So for somebody who has a partner who does do that, what's the best way to approach that situation?

B (24:20)

Goes back to that communication part where it's important to talk about. I understand you feel sad. However, we still need to revisit this conversation. If your emotions are too intense to do that right now. Let's take a break, but we're going to come back to it later. And that's really the key, is to say it's not going to get us out of addressing this issue, whether the other person's mad or anxious or sad. It just means we may have to wait until you use some coping strategies to reduce the intensity of your emotion and then when you feel a little calmer, we're going to revisit it and we're going to tackle it again.

A (24:53)

Wow. I guess this is why people think that the grass is always greener on the other side. Because you will never see this on Instagram. You'll never open up your app where people are actually showing you, you know, today I had the worst day. My wife and I are fighting or my husband did this. Then it's always. Even if they're going through that, it's always, white picket fence, here's me, I'm so happy. I love my life. And then somebody else who's going through that trauma, who may not be mentally fed, and maybe they're. They've just got fired from a job and this is not good. They go on the Internet or they go on Instagram and they see everyone is so happy and my life sucks and I hate my life, therefore I hate my husband.

B (25:33)

Yeah, I think that happens quite often. And the ironic twist is the people that are probably posting about how happy they are in their relationship, research shows they're doing that because they're actually insecure in their relationship and they're looking for external validation. And by announcing to people on social media, look how in love we are. They're hoping that people will reinforce, yeah, you are in love. Because they might not feel all those warm, fuzzy feelings yet. For the people viewing that, it can seem like, oh, everybody else has a partner that they', so, so in love with, and how come I can't have that? How come you can't do these things for me? So social media certainly can create a lot of that jealousy, a lot of the angst that people feel in thinking that everybody else has a perfect relationship.

A (26:18)

Wow. Yes. Yes. Okay, number. What's the next one? The third. The third.

B (26:25)

One third. If I were to go in importance of. Not necessarily in chronological order, but I'd say they don't expect their partner to meet all of their needs. Ooh, Right. This one came into play because so many people would come in and they really were just upset and kind of resentful and bitter about their partner over the years. They felt like their partner didn't do enough. You don't do enough to. To help me when I'm lonely, or you don't take away my sadness, or I love hiking and you won't go with me. My partner doesn't like hiking, or I have so many things I want to do and you won't do anything with me. And I. I don't blame People for coming up with this idea. When you look at romantic movies, you listen to songs. All of these things are about, you're going to meet somebody someday who's going to sweep you off your feet and make your life amazing.

A (27:13)

Hollywood, right?

B (27:15)

And then when you take a step back, like, let's just take song lyrics. 86% of song lyrics these days contain dysfunctional relationship behavior. It glorifies behavior that you actually don't want to have in your relationship. Yet if you're listening to music all day long, that's just flooded in your brain that these things are normal. And so because of that, a lot of people have the wrong idea about what your partner should be able to do for you. We expect so much from people these days. You're going to be my business partner. You're going to be my financial partner. We're going to run a household. We're probably going to have kids. So you're going to be my partner in raising the kids. And I want you to also be my recreational companion. And you're going to do all of these things for me, and nobody can do all of those things for you. It's important to have other friends and other family and other activities and hobbies and interests that are outside of your partner and to talk about what do you need? If you need more companionship and your partner needs more autonomy, you're going to need to have that conversation to figure it out. How do we each meet our own needs over here?

A (28:15)

Have you heard? I mean, I'm pretty sure you have. It's this new thing that I've learned about attachment theories. And yes, it kind of feels like the avoidant attachment or attacher, if you will. And then the anxious, they're the ones who are always drawn together. And it's. It's crazy, right? Because the anxious one is like, I need to hear from you 24 7. And I. And the avoidant is like, I really don't want to hear from you. But I said, I don't understand it yet. It's just not my field. But I don't understand how the avoidant and the anxious are tied together.

B (28:50)

Right. You would think on the surface, like, there's no way these two people would get together. You have somebody that comes across as kind of aloof and somebody that comes across as kind of clingy. Why on earth would this happen? But what we are finding is that people are just naturally attracted to people who are different. So the person who's kind of clingy might look at this Person who seems aloof and they think, wow, you are so confident. I wish I could be like that. And they kind of admire them. And then the person who's maybe on the avoidant end of the spectrum looks at the other person and thinks, like, this is amazing. You're so nurturing and so caring. I kind of think I could be like that someday too. But then you put the two of them together and there's so many problems that crop up. The avoidant person is like literally running in the other direction and the, the anxious person is following them and, and they're arguing and fighting. And the other person, as their anxiety goes up, they're texting constantly to say, are you mad? Are you upset? What's going on? The other person's ignoring them and it creates this cycle that, that can be difficult to break until people recognize what's going on. Okay, maybe you just need a little more freedom, autonomy. I also need some more reassurance. How do we manage this in a healthy way?

A (29:58)

Oh, God. That's what you're pretty much outlining is that marriage is a really hard thing.

B (30:06)

You know, and even though we said like, okay, one in one in six people get divorced, I mean, it's also a miracle that five out of six people stay together, right?

A (30:14)

Yeah, well, I don't know if that was the right statistic, but I'm pretty sure it was. I think I, I really, I did read that somewhere. So, yeah, if when you put it that way, that means five and six stay together and that's really good. Whether they're happy though, or whether they're just staying together for, I don't know, money, kids, etc.

B (30:34)

Well, that's the other thing. I don't think we should look at how long people stayed together as the ultimate predictor of success. I mean, we even talk about that like that's a failed marriage or they failed, but oh boy, staying together in a miserable relationship just for the sake of staying married, that's where a lot of suffering and misery comes in.

A (30:55)

I have this newfound respect for the word perspective and giving any situation that you're in some perspective and looking at it like as if you are an outsider and taking a helicopter view. Because oftentimes we can get really, really down based on the story that we tell ourselves and also with the labels that we give certain emotions. And I want to talk to you about how you can reduce the intensity of an uncomfortable feeling and how you can start, I guess, self parenting yourself through these uncomfortable feelings and recognizing and getting a bit of Perspective and recognizing that, yes, this is an emotion, but.

B (31:41)

It will go, oh, yeah, that's a great question. So a few things that can work. Sometimes it's just about naming the emotion, which sounds easy on the surface. Like, I'm just gonna say, I'm sad right now. A lot of people don't know what they feel. We don't really talk that much about emotions. Rarely do in conversation. Would you say to somebody like, I'm kind of sad today? Right. We tend to just. Even. Even when adults talk, they're more likely to say, like, well, I had a lump in my throat or butterflies in my stomach. We don't really talk about our feelings in. In that kind of language. So I'll find a lot of people will say to me, oh, yeah, no problem. I'm really good at emotional intelligence, and I'll give a room of executives this job. Like, write down as many feeling words as you can in 30 seconds. They usually average about five. Because once you get past the happy, sad, mad, we kind of run out of words. So. So it's difficult. And it's also possible to feel many things at once. You might be sad that you left your job, but also happy that you're looking forward to your new job. And nobody talks about these things. So I'll encourage people. Sometimes you might just print out a list of feeling words on the Internet. Google it. You can find tons of lists of feeling words. Print it out. Hang it on your bathroom mirror. When you're brushing your teeth in the morning, just say, how do I feel right now? And then when you're brushing your teeth in the evening, hopefully you do twice a day, ask yourself the same question, like, what emotion do I feel? And we know that just putting a label to it can often reduce the intensity of an uncomfortable feeling. And then a good next step, though, is to ask yourself, is what I'm feeling right now helpful or hurtful or a friend or an enemy? Either way is fine, because we often think about emotions as either being positive or negative. Like, people will say excitement's a positive emotion and anger is a negative emotion. But literally any feeling has the power to sometimes be helpful to us. And sometimes not so much. Like, really smart people will fall prey to a get rich quick scheme because they were excited. And when we're excited, we forget to look at the potential downside. Meanwhile, somebody who's sad and they go into a negotiation will do terrible negotiating. We know when you're sad. If somebody makes you an offer, you probably won't make a counteroffer because you think, ugh, my self esteem can't handle another hit today, so I'm just gonna say yes to whatever you just told me. So it's important to ask yourself, like, what am I feeling right now? Is it a friend or an enemy? And how might it affect my decision making today? And then what you just brought up with that perspective. So we know that when we can remove ourselves from whatever it is that's provoking an emotion, it helps take the sting out of it. If I'm in a room and somebody's annoying me and I can walk away, usually my frustration goes down and I feel a little happier. But you can't always physically distance yourself from whatever it is that's stirring up an emotion. So that's where your psychological distance comes in and you can get a different perspective. So one of the best ways to get some psychological distance is to time travel. If I say to myself, how important will this be in 50 years? Usually whatever's bugging me today is probably not that important. That gives me some distance, which changes my perspective.

A (34:39)

Because, yeah, sometimes it's like, is anything gonna matter? Like, let's say five years.

B (34:45)

It's five. You can even say next week. Sometimes the things that we think are, like, vital today, like this email that I'm rehashing over and over again, like, probably next week I won't even remember that I sent the email. Yet in the moment, it feels like I have to word it perfectly or I'm frustrated about it. So sometimes just asking yourself that. So, yeah, five years from now, how much will this matter? Probably the answer is not much. Most of our decisions really won't affect us as much as we think they will. And that helps take some of the sting out of it too, is to just say, how much will this matter? Gives you a different perspective on whatever's right in front of you.

A (35:18)

Yeah, I think we can use that for absolutely anything in life. Even, like, going to the gym or not eating the cupcake or whatever it is that people go through. Because on this podcast I usually speak about sleep, nutrition, and exercise being the three core pillars of human optimization. And for some reason, even, like, you know, for example, I have a client who just won't go to sleep at 10pm and he is this, I call it. He's got like a gap right where he gets really tired because we, you know, I document everything gets. But he just won't put himself in bed because he just wants to ruminate. I feel like he's. He's so Busy during the day. Like, he works on Wall street and he's. His nighttime is his relaxing time to just ruminate, to sit. Sometimes it's just on Instagram or YouTube and he just keeps going. And even though he's exhausted, he just will not go to bed. And I just, I'm like, okay. Like, I'm even experimenting with, you know, having him take some melatonin, which I don't. I don't usually tell people to take, but I'm like, let's just try just to get you really, really, really tired so you can get into bed at 10pm but it is that. That gap where. And so I'm always trying to tell him, like, what you're doing today or what you're looking at at 9:30 or 10:30pm Is it going to matter next week? Right.

B (36:39)

Yeah. That's a good way to put it. Because in the moment it feels like, oh, I'm gonna scroll. But if you ask somebody, like, what do you remember about what you saw yesterday when you were scrolling through social media, the answer is usually like, nothing. Right. Because there was so much that we're overloaded with that very few things actually stand out in our minds.

A (36:57)

Yeah. Amy Morin, 13 Things Mentally Strong Couples do. Where is it? Is it available everywhere?

B (37:06)

It is. It's at Target. It's. I saw it in the airport bookstore the other day. It's so wherever you buy books, you can probably find 13 things mentally strong Couples don't do.

A (37:16)

Don't do. I keep saying do.

B (37:18)

A lot of people do. It's. It's a strange title to come up with what not to do, but still do.

A (37:22)

I love this. Amy, thank you so much for being part of the Neuro Experience podcast.

B (37:26)

Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.