Adulting While Neurodivergent: Burnout, Guilt & Free Time

Summary

The Neurodivergent Experience Podcast

Episode: Adulting While Neurodivergent: Burnout, Guilt & Free Time

Hosts: Jordan James & Simon Scott
Date: June 10, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This candid episode dives deep into the daily realities of "adulting" as neurodivergent individuals, focusing on three interconnected experiences: burnout, guilt, and struggles to find or enjoy free time. Jordan and Simon reflect on their personal challenges, the constant pressures of work and family, the need for true downtime, and the double-edged sword of neurodivergent minds that both empower and exhaust them. The tone is honest, sometimes humorous, balancing frustration and hope.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Breaking Point: Burnout, Forgetting, and Fatigue

• [02:32] Both hosts admit to forgetting to record the previous week—a first in their run—because they are so "fried" by work and life load.
  • Jordan describes how a small errand (shopping for a garden shed) displaced everything else, highlighting executive function overload and chaotic scheduling.
  • Quote: “We completely forgot to record last week because we were both just like fried.” – Simon [02:55]
• [03:44] Jordan humorously blames political and economic instability (specifically referencing Trump) for his kids’ inability to move out, leading to a lack of personal space and increased stress.
  • Jordan's solution: invest in an insulated outdoor shed as a “boy cave” for personal refuge.

2. The Nature of Pressure: Good vs. Bad, Internal vs. External

• [05:45] Simon feels "super lucky" and fulfilled with career success but grapples with constant rumination, an overactive mind, and an inability to access restorative free time.
  • Quote: “All these big ticks. But the inner child in me is anxious and freaking out, man. I just need to do something other than work right now, but I can’t.” – Simon [06:21–06:35]
• [07:17] Jordan distinguishes between pressures you choose (personal projects, entrepreneurship) vs. imposed pressures (employer demands), reflecting anxiety about potential failure and its impact on others.
  • Lighthearted banter about receiving “death threats” if the podcast network fails, underscoring the specter of social and community responsibility.

3. Boreout vs Burnout: Two Sides of Overload

• [08:13] Jordan introduces “boreout”: becoming physically ill from chronic boredom and under-stimulation, not just from overwork.
  • As a contrast, he finds joy and escape in hyperfixating on the video game Forza Horizon 6, noting how his autistic and ADHD traits map onto the behaviors and pleasures of deep gaming.

4. Free Time, Leisure, and Neurodivergent Escapism

• [10:19] Simon describes being unable to unwind with usual hobbies: even activities like golf and video games, which usually refresh him, are now tainted by stress and rumination.
  • Quote: “What normally works for me isn’t working... I’m afraid of getting burnt out because I haven’t got time to be burnt out right now.” – Simon [14:08–14:32]
• [15:16–16:17] Both struggle with controlling intrusive thoughts and failing to “turn off” their brains, comparing minor (Jordan) and major (Simon) incidents of never-ending mental to-do lists—even in sleep, relaxation, or with loved ones.
  • Simon shares: “My thoughts run at me... I woke up and my brain just went and play. I was like, man, I can’t turn this off.” [17:20]

5. Coping, Regulation, and the Search for Restorative Habits

• [19:33] Simon tries venting and self-advice, but neither talk therapy nor familiar self-care tricks (like music, walking, or even anime) bring relief.
  • Quote: “Even though the deadline’s close and I’m going to get there, this is the bit that is making me realize the gift and the curse of neurodivergence.” [18:44]
• [20:56] Jordan highlights video games as a near-mindful release and draw parallels to mindfulness practice: “My only thought is, I’m gonna drive this car over there. I’m gonna drive that car over there. There’s a tree, smash…” [20:56]
  • Both consider sleep aids and body-based regulation (e.g., going barefoot outside), yet even this is sometimes thwarted by exhaustion and erratic schedules.

6. Solitude, Guilt, and the Weight of Relationships

• [25:39] After break, they address the social-emotional cost of “me time”: neurodivergent people are stereotyped as loners, but many simply need alone time to recharge.
  • Jordan reflects: "Everybody needs to find time for themselves. It’s just navigating that and not feeling bad when you do it. Not thinking, oh, I’m selfish. Especially coming from my perspective as a husband and a father..." [27:37]
• [29:42] Jordan shares how adolescent children shift the focus back onto personal interests, yet responsibilities always linger, catching him out even in “inner child” mode.

7. Comparing, FOMO, and the Perils of Social Media

• [31:53] Simon confesses to jealousy at watching YouTubers and friends enjoying leisure (e.g., golfing weekends, streaming games) while he can’t even find basic downtime.
  • Both discuss "paralysis by analysis"—overthinking how to spend precious free moments, which paradoxically leads to more anxiety.
  • Quote: “Now I’m getting paralysis by analysis about trying to do something fun. I’m exhausted by it, man.” – Simon [33:38]

8. The 'Right' Kind of Recharge: Funko Pops, Retail Therapy, and Treats

• [39:49] Both share the value of small, affordable dopamine hits: Funko Pops, sneakers, retail therapy, or simple pleasures (ice lollies, sushi).
  • Discuss using “mini hits” to break cycles of work and negative feelings.
  • Jordan: "That’s the great thing about Funko Pops is that they’re relatively affordable dopamine hits..." [41:45]
• [43:09] Humorous riff on the childhood pleasure of ice lollies vs. toxic masculinity—“Nothing phallic will enter my mouth, sir!” [44:13]

9. The Power of Friendship and Community

• [44:35] Both acknowledge how venting and honest conversation—especially within their friendship—lightens the psychological burden.
  • Quote: “That’s the power of your and I’s friendship, is that we’ll crack on here and it doesn’t feel like work. This feels like time off.” – Jordan [44:43]
  • Simon celebrates “getting energy from the right people” and the importance of sharing even messy realities.

---

Memorable Quotes

• Simon: "I am walking that tightrope between bore out and burnout." [13:41]
• Jordan: "Pressure makes diamonds, baby. You know you shine, shine bright like a diamond." [10:27]
• Simon: "I just want to take my brain out and put it in a jar for a bit and put my kid brain in and just not think about stuff for a bit." [41:04]
• Jordan: "Why do you feel bad about having fun?" [35:14]
• Simon: "I haven’t had sushi for lunch in ages. I might... actually need to remind myself that I can treat myself occasionally." [42:43]
• Jordan: "Everybody needs to find time for themselves. It's just navigating that and not feeling bad when you do it... not thinking, oh, I'm selfish." [27:37]
• Simon: "Even just hanging out with you for, you know, 40 odd minutes and you the listeners, just hanging out with us wherever you are... I actually feel a lot better." [45:05]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:32] – Realization of burnout and forgetting to record episode
• [05:45] – Simon on "good pressure," fulfillment vs. anxiety, and lack of free time
• [08:13] – Discussion of “boreout” and gaming for neurodivergent mind regulation
• [13:41] – Tightrope between bore out and burnout; regulation strategies fail
• [17:20] – Overwhelming intrusive thoughts; waking up and instantly ruminating
• [20:56] – Games as mindfulness/mind-emptying tool, seeking escapism
• [27:37] – Navigating alone time, guilt, and internalized expectations
• [31:53] – FOMO, social comparison, and overthinking downtime
• [39:49] – Dopamine hits: toys, treats, retail as self-soothing
• [44:35] – Friendship as therapy, podcasting that doesn’t feel like work

---

Additional Insights

• Guilt Around Free Time: Both hosts stress the unique guilt faced by neurodivergent adults for taking time for themselves—especially as partners, parents, and community leaders. The challenge is separating self-care from selfishness.
• Pressure to Use Free Time "Correctly": The "paralysis by analysis" that Simon describes is a potent neurodivergent experience: the anxiety that any rare leisure must be maximally optimized (and fear of “wasted” time).
• Escapist Rituals: Small rituals—like retail therapy, snacks, or video games—aren’t “escapes from life” but critical strategies for self-regulation and joy, often misunderstood by neurotypical onlookers.
• Importance of the Right Community: The value of neurodivergent support networks (friendship, podcasts, sharing lived experience) stands out as strongly protective.

---

Conclusion

This episode frames neurodivergent adulthood as a perpetual negotiation between responsibility (overwork), the need for regulation (rest/play), and the guilt/shame that comes from attempting to meet conflicting demands. Jordan and Simon offer a refreshingly honest, relatable, and validating account of why simply “having fun” or taking downtime is a major challenge for many neurodivergent people—and why self-kindness, mini dopamine hits, and connection to the right people aren’t luxuries, but essentials.

---

For more on neurodivergent culture, lived experience, and to join the conversation, visit:

• AutisticCulturePodcastNetwork.com
• AutisticCulturePlus.com

---

Next Episode Teaser: Tune in next week for a "hot topic" episode!

---

This summary skips all advertising and promo segments; all content is paraphrased and timestamped according to the flow and emphasis of the original speakers.

Transcript

[Jordan James]

This is a vacation with Chase Sapphire Reserve. The butler, the spa. This is the Edit a collection of handpicked luxury hotels and a $500 edit credit chase Sapphire Reserve now even more rewarding.

[Danny Pellegrino]

Learn [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JPMorgan Chase bank and a member FDIC

[Wayfair Announcer]

subject to credit approval hey there, it's Wayfair here, where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app when you spot it. A brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too. All Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast expert setup on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app Wayfair

[Simon Scott]

Every Style, Every Home ACAST Powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.

[Danny Pellegrino]

The Real Housewives is a guilty pleasure for most, but if you're looking to not feel guilty about that pleasure, tune in to Everything Iconic with me, Danny Pellegrino, where I break down all the messy moments, moments and behind the scenes antics of Bravo's popular franchise. On Everything Iconic, I also interview celebrity guests like Kelly Ripa, Keke Palmer, Drew Barrymore, Cameron Diaz and more about their guilty pleasures, their past work, and so much more. So if you're pop culture obsessed and find yourself watching way too much reality TV like me, tune into Everything Iconic with Danny Pellegrino. Wherever you listen to podcasts,

[Simon Scott]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Foreign.

[Jordan James]

Welcome to the neurodivergent Experience Podcast. A podcast where we share the lived experiences of neurodivergent people to help create a better understanding for our community.

[Simon Scott]

Join us every week as we bring you honest, raw and inspiring conversations with specialists, advocates and individuals who know exactly what it's like to live the neurodivergent Experience.

[Jordan James]

I'm Jordan James, a neurodivergent specialist, father of neurodivergent children, husband to a neurodivergent wife and author of the Autistic Experience. And I'm joined by my best friend.

[Simon Scott]

I'm Simon Scott. I'm an autistic ADHD broadcaster, actor and advocate. Join us as we journey into unraveling the neurodivergent experience.

[Jordan James]

Hello. Welcome back everybody, you lovely, lovely people. Scotty, we needed we needed A bit of a break.

[Simon Scott]

We didn't even realize we needed a break. Hello, everybody. Jordan and I have done how many weeks of this show, like consistently non stop. Super on it.

[Jordan James]

Right?

[Simon Scott]

Kudos to us. Pat on the back. Well done.

[Jordan James]

Yay.

[Simon Scott]

We completely forgot to record last week because we were both just like fried.

[Jordan James]

It's amazing. I, I, we literally the day before, we're like, okay, let's do this episode. We, we knew exactly what we wanted to talk about. We, we organized everything the next day. I am literally at like it like a nursery, you know, not, not for little kids, but for plants. Looking at sheds, you know, I've been a man looking at sheds. Yeah. But it's what I want the shed for is for, for my boy cave. Because it doesn't look like my kids are going to be moving out anytime soon thanks to the ris. Trump the fucking asshole is causing. You bastard Trump. He's done so much but taken away my man cave slash boy cave.

[Simon Scott]

Starting unnecessary wars. The Epstein files. We can, we can be grumble about that. But you take me boy cave.

[Jordan James]

You took my boy cave because now my kids can't afford to move out. You fucker. Anyway, so, yeah, so I looked at it and went, I'm just gonna buy like one of those insulated sheds for the, for, you know, like an outdoor office type thing.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, I'm thinking about doing something similar actually.

[Jordan James]

You know, because I was looking at it, I was like, oh, well, I can get that. And then it actually increases the value of my house and makes it more appealing for when I want to sell it. So it's like a win win. You're not actually losing money because you're investing it in space.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, yeah. Sense to me though, so.

[Jordan James]

And that's what we're talking about today. We're talking about a time for ourselves and needing to escape from the reality there is life.

[Simon Scott]

Being an adult sucks, dude.

[Jordan James]

I'm literally in this garden center and I'm like, wait a minute. I was meant to be at home recording an episode of the podcast. I've looked at my phone. There's no messages from you. And I'm like, that's weird because normally you'd be like, bro, where are you? And I rang you and I sorry I messaged you. And I was like, I'm sorry I missed it. And you rang me like, oh, I noticed you've messaged me. What's this about? And I'm like, aren't, aren't we recording an episode? You're like, oh, I'VE also forgot. We both forgot simultaneously because we are so tired lately. Just so tired.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. You've been working a lot, dude. I mean, I've, I've.

[Jordan James]

Seven days, 12 hours, but yeah. Yeah. So I don't, I, I, my brain can't. 72 hour weeks.

[Simon Scott]

Jesus, dude.

[Jordan James]

No, is that, is it more? I, my. Oh, look, I can't even, I can't even do maths in my head. I was correct. It was 72. Yeah. Who does a 72 hour week? I do. I work 72 hours a week.

[Simon Scott]

Nearly there as well right now. Yeah, it's. Yeah, my brain is fried, dude. Like, I'm having an incredible period in my life. Like, genuinely, this is the happiest I've ever been. I'm winning in life. I feel super freaking lucky. I'm still ruminating on the possible worst outcomes that could ever happen because that's part of being nd, unfortunately. So trying to navigate that and get cortisol levels down and regulate my nervous system. Oh, wait. I've got no free time. I've literally got no free time right now. And the whole thing that I'm doing with the network is so exciting, but it's heavy, man. And there's a lot of pressure on me right now and I feel like I'm really stepping into my own as adult. I feel like I'm really fulfilling my potential. All these big ticks. But the inner child in me is anxious and freaking out, man. Like, it. I just need, I need to do something other than work right now, but I can't. And the headache that I've had for the past two weeks is getting a bit unbearable now.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, it's just, it's definitely that pressure that you put on yourself because this is for you.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

You know, there's, there's like different types of pressure when it comes to work and I, in a way, I think yours is good pressure.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, yeah.

[Jordan James]

Because at least you're the one that's under pressure and you're not, you know, you're not gonna get fired. But at the same time, if it goes wrong, I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna give you make your paranoid. If it goes wrong, you're gonna let like a whole load of people down and then you've got that.

[Simon Scott]

I've not thought of it at all. You're fine.

[Jordan James]

All right. Okay then. Yeah. Everyone will hate you.

[Simon Scott]

Definitely have to.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Where else do you live again? Or just, just sending you, like anthrax. You, me, podcast.

[Simon Scott]

At least I get some rest. If somebody put on first.

[Jordan James]

Christ. Yeah. Anyway, talking about death threats feels like that at work, you know, just in general. And you're under pressure. It's, it's what I'm. I, I don't really deal with a lot of pressure on my work because my, my work's relatively simple, but it's just so many hours doing something that is mundane. So we were talking about that bore out, just being so bored that you become physically ill from it. The same as burnout, but from boredom where you're not stimulated enough. But lucky for me, Forza Horizon 6. You knew I was going to mention it.

[Simon Scott]

I was sat here, I was going,

[Jordan James]

how long is it until he mentions thoughts? Because when we said, oh, what do you want the episode to do about? I was like, can we do an episode about Forza Horizon 6? Is that, is that a thing? So, yeah, my, my TISM has proper kicked in with that game. First of all, it was like ADHD racing cars. Really, really fun. Now I'm going around smashing billboards and taking pictures of cars just to get like extra XP and more credit so I can buy nice other cars. And I made like this garage and I've displayed my cars. Oh, I've gone properties in that game.

[Simon Scott]

You're dying to get on it, get off this and get on it.

[Jordan James]

Oh, it's, it's fun. It's. And lucky for me, it's been a wonderful distraction because the weather has sucked, but I've basically. It's, it's. I mean, you can play multiplayer, but I'm just single player driving around. You can get Warthog from actual Halo in it and, and you just drive through the entire level, it's open world and just smash trees and stuff. And it's, it's euphoric. It's. It's so satisfying. It kind of feels like that Donkey Kong Bonanza game where you just smashed all the levels up. Like, I'm sure there was a story, but it was so satisfying to just be destructive. And I have been so happy lately. I've been so chill and so happy because I've just been doing me and my thing and not worrying about others. And it's the polar opposite for you because everything you're doing is not only about you, but it. There's so many other people relying on you.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, man. It's just to add the pressure. Thanks. Thanks. Love you too.

[Jordan James]

Pressure makes diamonds, baby Makes diamonds, baby. You know you shine, shine bright like a diamond. Anyway, she got the shining.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, he's got the Shining. Yeah, dude, I. Oh, as you were talking about that, I was just like, oh, that must be nice. What does that feel like? Because at the moment, right now, when I'm finishing work, I'm working super long days, and one of the sort of misconceptions, I was literally talking to Karis about this last night, and as I was telling her, she was like, baby shouting. I was like, ah, sorry. People think podcasting is easy. The amount of people that I talk to, where I go, oh, I do podcasting. Professional. They go, anyone can do that. I'm like, go on then. Like, it genuinely, like, gets my back up so much.

[Jordan James]

But it is super easy. And we have done no research or planning or given up anything whatsoever to achieve our.

[Simon Scott]

It's not, like, a huge commitment status that we have used 10 years of experience of research and listening and, you know, and knowledge. Yeah. It's just. Yeah, just like, anyone can do it. Right.

[Jordan James]

Easy, easy.

[Simon Scott]

But. Right, okay. I experience this a lot. I'm sure you experience this too, dude. In that there are times when I'm doing work where the imposter syndrome feeling kicks in, where I'm like, I'm just coasting through this. Am I trying? Am I really trying? Could I be better? Could I. Could I do more that. That. That. That playlist plays a lot in my head. And when it comes to podcasting, I could do, like, four hours of work. That would take somebody else eight. But because it takes me four hours, I feel like I'm cheating. But it's not that. It's my ability, it's my knowledge. And that's why I can do it in the time that I do it, right? And you say, oh, I work for 12 hours. And my brain hears that and goes, you could do more, Simon. And right now, I am doing 12 hours. And, dude, I am walking that tightrope between bore out and burnout in that I'm not bored. I haven't got any free time right now. Every minute of my day right now is in work. 18 months of hard work is coming into these next couple of weeks. It has been a pleasure and a privilege, and I am so freaking excited to share the Autistic Culture Podcast Network truly with the world. I cannot catch a breath right now. I feel so under the cosh, under the water, and I'm reaching that point where things that used to regulate me aren't working, and I don't feel like I've got enough free time. And that ADHD thing of going, oh, I've got that at 2 o' clock and it's 10 o', clock, so I can't do anything until 2 o' clock. And I'm trying to get off my phone. I've stopped using Instagram as much. I'm not sitting up at night and doom scrolling. I'm trying to get an early night. My brain will not switch off from work, dude. It just will not switch off. And when you were talking about fours then I felt so jealous that you've got something that you're enjoying right now, because I am enjoying work. Do I find, you know, navigating people and stuff like that, even though I love a lot of the people that I'm working with? Yeah, it's tough. It can be tough. It can be hard. And all I want to do right now is go and sit in a dark room for a few hours or play a video game. Like, there's a, there's a handful of video games that I love playing and I was talking to a buddy of mine about maybe playing a new game together and I looked at Steam on my PC. I haven't logged on for three months. I've not done anything like that for months. And every time I've played golf recently, which is usually my big go and do that and chill out. I've played like dick because I'm stressed and I've got tension in my body. And it's so frustrating when you do things that normally are fun for you and they just don't work. So I feel like I'm in a real limbo right now of I'm fulfilling my potential. I'm under a lot of pressure and what normally works for me isn't working. And I'm a bit like, I'm afraid of getting burnt out. That's genuinely where I'm at right now. I'm afraid of getting burnt out because I haven't got time to be burnt out right now. And I'm a bit like, what the fuck am I gonna do? Because there's nothing I can do. I've got to keep working. I can't stop. I can't just stop.

[Jordan James]

I mean, do you have backup or is it always your backup?

[Simon Scott]

You know, unfortunately, my backups me. I, I am asking for a lot of help. I'm getting a lot better at that and sort of ad hocing things and, and, and pushing responsibilities off to people and stuff. But the thing that is the, the hardest thing to navigate is turning off the rumination in that I can't at the moment log off my computer and stop My brain thinking about work, and that's really tiring. I'm burning through mental energy without even realizing I'm doing it.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, so you don't get any time off because your time off is consisting of you thinking about emails that you've read or conversations that you've had or things that you need to do the next day or things that you might have forgotten to do the day before. Yeah, I mean, to a smaller extent, I can simplify it in my own brain of, like, today I woke up really early. I was really tired. We got up to watch the basketball game because Sylvia was going to work.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, it's the finals. Yeah.

[Jordan James]

New York versus Spurs. But anyway, so I got up super early, did not want to get out of bed, but I was like, no, fine. Went downstairs, had breakfast, watched the game, because it's in America, so it's weird times. And then I was like, okay, I'm gonna go back to sleep because I've got to work later and I need to go to sleep. As I'm laying there and I'm like, oh, no, I remember someone's coming to pick up an Amazon package, and, you know, I haven't put it back in the box, and I need to get that ready. So as soon as I got up, sellotaped all this box together, put it aside, and then I'm not tired anymore, and then I'm like, oh, man. And you just can't sleep because your brain is just reminding you constantly of things over and over and over again. So. And. And that's happening to me for very small, minor things. So I like, the. The major things means that you're. You're just constantly losing spoons. You're probably waking up minor spoons every day, dude.

[Simon Scott]

Literally. I kid you not. I don't know if you experienced this with having, like, an eidetic brain. My thoughts run at me. Like, I woke up this morning and I opened my eyes, I rolled over, saw my beloved, and instantly work just went wash straight into my face. And it was like, this is what you're doing today. Remember to do this. Remember to message this person. Remember, you've got to do that. You've got to chase this, you've got to chase that. And I was literally in the shower, dude, trying not to cry because I was, like, so overwhelmed, and I didn't even think about it. It's like, I woke up and you broke my brain. Just went and play. I was like, man, I can't turn this off. I can't turn it off. And even though the deadline's close and I'm going to get there, this is the bit that is making me realize the gift and the curse of neurodivergence. Because what I do with work and how I do it, and I am pretty damn good at what I do, comes from the ability of my brain, how I process, how compassionate I am, and my ear. But the rumination, the spoon burning, the lack of interception, of knowing when I need to eat or go to the loo or sleep. And I'm not really leaving the house because I'm having to work a lot, and I just. I'm just really navigating all the worst parts of being neurodivergent right now. And it just feels like I'm not getting a break from it. Like, I genuinely had a rage with myself. I had a meltdown. Like, not a knock, a proper, you know, thump in my own head meltdown. But I did have a meltdown where I was like, stop, Simon, just stop. Stop thinking about this now. You need to have a breather and have a break and just breathe. And I did something that I've not done for about a year. I put anime on, and there was one that I've wanted to watch for ages, it's now on Netflix. And I put it on and I watched four episodes of it until one in the morning, and I looked at my clock and I went, right, come on, Simon, go to bed. I turned the TV off and there it was again, dude. All my thoughts came rushing back and I literally got in a panic because I was like, I just want. I just want my brain to stop. And it won't. It just won't.

[Jordan James]

Try sleeping tablets.

[Simon Scott]

See, I wanted to ask you about this because I've got a buddy who struggles with insomnia from his mind. And in a similar way that I do, and I've talked about melatonin before, tried it once, and I had, like, a really bad experience with it, like, horrible nightmares. And I know people have experienced, like, sleep paralysis and all sorts of stuff, but this is the first time that I've ever thought. Like, I think I need, like, some help with my sleep and my brain right now because, like, I'm talking to people and I'm venting and I'm getting it off my back. I'm struggling to take my own advice, you know, of, like, try not to give it energy. And you aren't your thoughts and feelings, you just have them. Like, the advice that I would give to other people that were, if they came to Me with what I was struggling with, but it's my nervous system, dude. I'm really struggling to regulate it. And the things that usually work, like going outside barefoot or going for a walk or, or listening to an album that I love, it's like I'm not listening to music at the moment. I feel like nothing's. Nothing's clicking with me. And this is why I'm craving just a little bit of me time to really connect with my inner child. And yeah, it's tough, man. It is tough because it's, it's, you know, I can't just flick a switch and turn it off.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. That's what I really, really do love about video games for my mental health, because I, I do just switch off. Like, I don't touch my phone. I don't think about anything that's bothering me. And it's, it's in a weird way, it's kind of like mindfulness. The idea of mindfulness is that you just have an empty mind that you can just empty your mind of all, like, all thoughts. Yeah. And you can just exist without thoughts. And, you know, it's. It's close to that playing video games, because my only thought is, I'm gonna drive this car over there. I'm gonna drive that car over there. There's a tree smash. And it just kind of switched. I mean, this game in particular is that good for that because you just don't have to think too much. You know, it's just driving around Tokyo and it's, it's like a lot of fun. It's just, it's really pretty, actually. It does seasons as well. At the moment. It's. It's in autumn, so the leaves are everywhere.

[Simon Scott]

Do you know what? I actually, I actually felt like a wash of chill just hit my brain.

[Jordan James]

It's really pretty. And we're going to Tokyo in a couple of years for Sylvia's 50th, so it's nice to sort of be able to see all the, all the sort of sites and stuff and like, be able to plan my trip based on a video game that I'm gonna go there anyway. And it is that brain escapism that I think it's. It's integral when you're neurodivergent because it does, it does sort of get rid of the bad thoughts. And like I said, I, I've been super. I haven't been out of sleep that well lately. But that's just more of. I, I, My, my body clocks all over the place because Your circadian rhythm is just. Yeah, because I've just been working so many extra shifts lately, which is why this month I've got no extras. I've just got my normal amount and I've got a holiday at the end. So hopefully this month I can just sort of get back to how it was before. But, yeah, I bought some sleeping tablets just from Boots. You actually have to go to the pharmacy to get them. They're not prescription ones, they're just in behind this glass cabinet. Yeah. So, yeah, not shelf over the counter. I haven't tried them yet. I'm gonna try them tomorrow morning because I'm working tonight and then when I get back, that's when I'm having trouble sleeping, is I work all night and then I go to bed and then I sleep for like three hours and then suddenly I'm awake again because it's bright and it's, you know, during the day and I've got people in the house and they're all working from home and, you know, and it's not their fault, it's just life, you know, so I'm hopefully gonna be able to sleep properly. But. Yeah, let's have a break.

[Simon Scott]

No, please.

[Jordan James]

But only while the adverts last.

[Simon Scott]

We'll be right back.

[Wayfair Announcer]

Hey there. It's Wayfair here, where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app when you spot it. A brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your pat and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too. All right, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast expert setup on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app.

[Simon Scott]

Wayfair Every style, every home.

[Sophie James]

Hi, I'm Sophie James, a neurodivergent mentor with four years of experience supporting neurodivergent individuals. As an autistic and ADHD woman myself, I know firsthand what it's like growing up in a neurotypical world and trying to navigate spaces that weren't built with our brains and mind. Whether you're neurodivergent yourself or supporting a neurodivergent child or teen, I offer experienced ed peer mentoring grounded in understanding, connection and neuro affirming support. Together, we explore strengths, build confidence and develop practical ways to navigate life while embracing who you are. If you'd like to learn more about my mentoring work, visit sophiejamesndmentoring.com.

[Simon Scott]

Welcome back to the neurodivergent Experience. We've been having a bit of a discussion around the pressures of, of being an adult and trying to balance free time and, and working on your inner child. And before we started recording, dude, you were talking to me about actually spending some time by yourself. And that was something that I used to struggle with, being on my own. And I think for the first time, dude, I'm actually really craving just being by myself for a little bit.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I, it's, it's one of those things that I think when, when you are on your own because obviously there's this, you know, idea about autistic people like to be on their own and they don't like playing with others. And it's one of the traits, as they call it. And it's. I, you know, there could be many, many reasons behind a kid wanting to be on his own. Maybe it's because he's being bullied and he doesn't want to have to be around people. That's normally how I feel about it. But there's this idea of this autism which originally meant to be by oneself, to learn by oneself, you know, which, which is true. I think, I think we learn the most when, when we teach ourselves things when, when we hyper focus and, and you know, it's, that's a really positive thing. And our battery, our, our sort of energy battery, it's quite a well known fact that they, they work completely the opposite to a neurotypical. So a neurotypical, you know, needs to be around people to get that energy or, and when they're alone, they end up growing a massive beard, living on an island and calling a bull Wilson Wilson. But if I was on the island, I'd be like, yeah, this is right. I miss Sylvia. But everything else is pretty cool.

[Simon Scott]

If you see like the cruise ship looking for you, just like, come back in a week, lads.

[Jordan James]

Yes, I need some more time. And it's not the fact that I don't want to be around people, it's the fact that I don't always want to be around people and everybody needs to find time for themselves. It's just navigating that and not feeling bad when you do it. Not thinking, oh, I'm selfish. Especially coming from my perspective as a husband and a father and I've got, you know, family and friends and things like that and, and lots of people want to spend time with me and I'm just like, no, I'M doing this thing. I'm by myself. So I remember, you know, a few weeks ago when I would just go walking, just by myself, take my camera, walking by myself. It's how I started taking pictures. It's how I started feeling better about myself. And I think that it. You need to remember that it's okay to do that. And it does feel a little bit selfish, especially when you're a dad. Especially when you're a parent. And I would constantly want to spend time with my kids, and then my kids became teenagers, and then they didn't want to spend as much time. Yeah. And then I used to get a lot of RSD from that, especially surrounding my son. You know, feel like, oh, you know what? I just won't ask now. So it's almost like you start drifting away and being a big kid, you end up really enjoying that childishness. So you take away the responsibilities, like, oh, I don't have to be a parent anymore, because now my kids are, you know, they're. They're allegedly grown up, but that responsibility is always still going to be there. And it kind of. It kind of catches me out every now and again of I'm just sitting there, just doing my, you know, inner child thing. Because at work, I have to be an adult all the time. 72 hours a week of being a fricking adult.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

I need time to just be a kid. That inner child. I need it. And then I'm doing that, and then my kids are like, I need this from you. And I'm just like, no, I want to do that. And Sophie's like, have you done the dishwasher? Nah, you don't want to do. I will hire someone to do a dishwasher. It's like, I'll get. You get on Yelp or something. And what's the one where you just hire people to do an easy job for you?

[Simon Scott]

It was like Craigslist.

[Jordan James]

I don't know. It sounds like an American.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, that's an American thing. But genuinely, it's that thing of you go, oh, I hate doing the dishes. I'll buy a dishwasher. Well, I've got to put it in.

[Jordan James]

Oh, yeah. Literally, I paid for that. I pay for the water that goes through that. I pay for the. The little tablets that I have no idea where they go. Yeah, don't. Don't eat them. I learned that the hard way. I was like, oh, candy.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

But, yeah, it's. It is. It is really annoying because I. I spend so much time at work having to be responsible. And when I get home, it's like, oh, I have to keep on being responsible. I'm like, no, that. Just leave me alone and let me be a big baby.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, no, I. I am craving that myself. Like, it's the. The bit that I'm like, I've said in the first half I'm struggling with is the being an adult that's on all the time. And you know what? I had a. A bit of a realization the other day. There's a video game that's come out at the moment. It's called Subnautica 2. And a lot of the YouTubers that I really like playing it, and I've never. I'm quite lucky. I don't feel jealous of people very often. I resent people, but I don't necessarily say I'm jealous of them. And I was watching a guy on YouTube the other day, and he did a live stream of playing this game that I'm dying to play, and he played for 12 hours. And I was like, off. Man, what I would give to just.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, but he might not enjoy that

[Simon Scott]

because that's his job, but you know what I mean? Like, I sat there as I was doing work watching this guy just stream, and I was like, you motherfucker. I just. That's what I want to do.

[Jordan James]

Maybe I should get. I've got a large following. Maybe I should get on Twitch and try and, like, get people watching me play. Oh, yeah, Horizon. Just being super autistic, trying to collect every item in the game.

[Simon Scott]

But then. Then I had experienced something as well. The other day. A really good friend of mine went on a golf weekend for three days, and he was messaging me, and normally I'm like, oh, that's great, dude. Sharing an interest. This is so awesome. And when he was texting me, I was like, that's the last thing that I need to see right now.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, that's.

[Simon Scott]

That's the last thing that I need to see. I'm so glad for you right now.

[Jordan James]

Like, that's got ultimate fomo, dude.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, that's. Honestly, dude, I feel like everything that grinds my gears right now is turned up to 11. I'm struggling to sleep. My interoception's bad. I'm not getting free time, and people that I. I like are doing really fun things without me, and I'm just like, honestly, I feel like a grumpy teenager right now, and I'm trying to figure out what I can kind of do about it. Like, I've got. I'VE got Saturday, this coming weekend. It'll have been gone by the time you. You lovely people listen to this. And I've got the day with my parents. They're still doing things, moving up here. And I am now feeling pressure around using my free time correctly.

[Jordan James]

Oh, that sucks.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. I'm like, I've only got a day. I've only got one day. What I'm gonna do with it?

[Jordan James]

Oh, my God, what am I gonna do?

[Simon Scott]

What I'm gonna do with that free time? Should I do this? Will I enjoy that? Will I not enjoy that? And now I'm getting paralysis by analysis about trying to do something fun. I'm exhausted by it, man. I don't. I don't know what I'm. What I can get away from everyone.

[Jordan James]

Lock yourself in that dark room and pay Subnautica for 12 hours. Yeah, there's your answer.

[Simon Scott]

I need to do, like.

[Jordan James]

It looks like a really fun game, like, go around collecting and building shit. It's like Minecraft underwater. So I'm understanding it, basically. Yeah. So go and do that. That sounds like a proper switch off. And you just don't have to care. And then, you know, have a break from it. And then when you get the next time, be like, okay, I'll just do that again. I don't know. But, you know, sometimes I look at it as the reason why I might play, like, a video game for just so many hours. Like, I think yesterday I spent about seven hours probably playing it. But I. If it was lovely weather and I had spent seven hours playing a video game indoors, I would feel like, oh, you know, you've wasted your time.

[Simon Scott]

That's somebody else always telling you that, though.

[Jordan James]

No, no, no. Like, I'm. I, you know me, I love going for walks. I love. Yeah, but. And the fact is, is that because I was feeling like, oh, maybe I played it too long and I felt a bit guilty. I don't know who I'm feeling guilty for. No one cares. Sylvia is actually loving the fact that I'm loving the game. It's not that. If she's just happy, I'm happy, dude. Yeah, genuinely. She's just so happy that I am happy. Because, you know, so often I do get these bouts of depression and. And just being happy is. Is. It's just wonderful all around. But I was kind of feeling guilty that I spent too long playing it. You know, I didn't, you know, I was supposed to have gone to the gym and so. Okay, but why'd you go to the gym? I was like, I go because it's good exercise, but I also enjoy it. So you didn't go to the gym? So. So what, you. You play the video game? This is Sylvia telling me this because I'm like, oh, maybe I should have done this, should have done that. She's like, yeah, but you had fun. So why did. Why do you feel bad about having fun? And I was. I. I don't know. But the fact is it was pouring with rain all day. Is again today. It's just.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

All this week. Hopefully next week when you people are listening, it will be nice and bright and sunny again. But it has been terrible. I don't want to go out. So I don't feel bad next week if it is sunny, as we're hoping I won't be sitting there all day playing video games. So choose what you're gonna do based on the weather or, you know, external factors, like other people going to be around. Maybe don't play video games, maybe go to the park, maybe do have a day out at the zoo or something like that. You know, I mean, to be fair, if I lived near you, I'd have a pass to Chester Zoo. I'd be there every week.

[Simon Scott]

You know what, man? I was thinking, I've not done anything like that for a while. I've not been to the cinema on my own, which is something that I used to love to do.

[Jordan James]

And I'm literally going tomorrow.

[Simon Scott]

Loads of films that I haven't seen in the cinema this year that I've really wanted to see. Yep. I'm actually really looking forward to watching the He Man. I'm surprised that by. I'm really looking forward to watching it. And I'm seeing trailers for things. There's like, the obsession movie, the horror movie. I really wanted to go and see that.

[Jordan James]

That's good.

[Simon Scott]

I wanted to watch Iron Lung as well. I didn't get a chance to slide. There's loads of films that have been on in the cinema, and I just tell myself I've not got time. And I think one of the things that I'm definitely feeling right now is I haven't been to the gym for, like, two weeks, and I'm feeling that sort of, like, grogginess in my body.

[Jordan James]

That's a long time.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. And that's something that, to be honest, dude, after we finish recording this, I might go for a swim. More for the sensory reason. But just saying that I think one of the things that I could probably get better at is actually acknowledging what works for me and building my routine around it a bit better in the. Like, when I finish work and then Carys comes home, I want to spend time with her. And I do feel odd or guilty if she comes home after we've both been at work all day. And then I go, hi, how are you? I'm gonna go and play a video game for three hours. Like, I do really struggle to. To want to do that. And, like, I love watching football, I love watching sport. A lot of the sports that I watch of where I'm down now, the World Cup's coming up, but I'm not really excited. Well, not too super excited for this one. And half of the games are like, when I'm gonna be asleep. So, you know, because of the time difference, I know we've, you know, that's a very privileged thing being in the uk. There's people in Australia that try and watch the Premier League. They have to get up at like 3am to watch games. But I feel like there is a gap. Like, the things that I enjoy doing, like going to the gym, going to the driving range, having a swim, sitting in a sauna, playing a video game, listening to some music, walking my dog, things like that. And instead of those feeling like things that I love to do and get excited about right now, they feel like chores. They feel like things that are gonna distract me from things that I have to do or, you know, I'm struggling with that. What I was saying early, you know, that feeling of, oh, I've got a dentist appointment at 3 o' clock and it's 10am, so I can't do anything until 3 o'. Clock. Like, that's how I'm feeling around work and just having free time. I did some retail therapy. I bought the new Liverpool kit and I bought some new golf clothes that I've yet to wear and that, like, gave me a hit of dopamine.

[Jordan James]

Yes, I bought. I completely by accident, bought three pairs of new Nikes completely by accident, on purpose, accidentally. They were on sale.

[Simon Scott]

Well, that's not. That's not your fault then, is it?

[Jordan James]

Well, I mean, to the audience, two of them were Jurassic park basketball shoes that are, like special editions. And with both of them, I had 25% off because it was Sylvia's birthday and she gets a voucher from Nike. So I was like, 25 off. Like, limited edition shoes. Yes, please. So literally, I, you know, like, I was. Anyway, yeah, anyway, I bought. I bought. I bought things as well. I made me happy. And then, of course, I. I had to buy a pop character to go with them.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. And. But what you're saying there, I feel like I've bought the things that I've been coveting that have been in my basket for a few months and now I've, I've run out of things to

[Jordan James]

like, oh yeah, the hit's gone.

[Simon Scott]

I've lost my hit. And even when I'm doing other things, like I was playing golf at the driving range the other day when we were meant to be recording. I was like, oh yeah, my bad. And even when I was there, I didn't feel like I was there, if you know what I mean.

[Jordan James]

Oh, no, no, I, I know exactly

[Simon Scott]

what I was like. I was still thinking about work and I was still thinking about other things that I've got to navigate and deal with. And it. I just want to take my brain out and put it in a jar for a bit and put an my kid brain in and just not think about stuff for a bit. Like, I'm very lucky, I have an awesome job and, you know, I've earned it and it's great. But at the same time, like, oh, I've never craved having a holiday like I've got right now, man, like just playing a video game for like three days straight and just. Dopamine, Dopamine, Dopamine. I'm craving it right now, man. It's, it's, it's not easy. It's not an easy feeling. Hard to navigate.

[Jordan James]

I mean, that's, I kind of, that's why I, and I talk about Funko Pops a lot. But that's the great thing about Funko Pops is that they're relatively affordable dopamine hits that I say don't take up that much space. But I've got like 40 in my literal vision. But it doesn't look like I have 40. It looks like I have a lot. But if you actually count there's like 40 of them in front of me. But it like they don't take up that much space.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

And, and you get a lot of little mini hits. So. Yeah, I suppose. Find, try and find the mini hits. Like even if it's like buying yourself a packet of sweets, like sometimes that helps. Would you like some sweeties?

[Simon Scott]

You know, I haven't done in ages. I haven't had sushi for lunch in ages.

[Jordan James]

I do like. I do like sushi.

[Simon Scott]

I might, yeah, I need to. It's hard, isn't it? Because like when you get so hyper focused on something, whether it's work or like, Navigating something in life or whatever. It is really hard to pause yourself and go, maybe just go and do something fun for five minutes or, like, go and get yourself a nice lunch or. It is really hard to break out of that monotropic flow and, like, sharpen your sword. It is hard. It's hard to break that.

[Jordan James]

I just remembered I have ice lollies in the fridge. I'm really excited now. I. And. And this. It's one of those fabs with hundreds of thousands.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, off.

[Jordan James]

I know. I'm just gonna go and eat one of those. I wonder how many people listening are going, where'd you get them from? Aldi.

[Simon Scott]

All the supermarkets are available. But yeah, others aren't as cheap, though. Yeah, I might go and get a Solero or, like, a Calypso.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, man.

[Simon Scott]

This is what I need to do, man. I actually need to remind myself that I can treat myself occasionally.

[Jordan James]

Because when you treat yourself to a nice lolly that is literally a dopamine hit and you're entering that inner child thing because there's this weird toxic masculinity thing that ice lollies and ice creams are for children. So low loads of these, like, red pill are like, oh, you wouldn't see me dead eating an ice cream. And then other people like, yeah, it's gay in a lolly. I'm like, okay, I think that's a new thing. That's. That's definitely a you thing. And you're.

[Simon Scott]

Nothing phallic will enter my mouth, sir. I'm now imagining somebody listening to this, literally eating an ice lolly and then just going, I need to go home and rethink my life,

[Jordan James]

man. Sexuality is a spectrum.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, sure.

[Simon Scott]

Definitely.

[Jordan James]

Whatever does it for you if it's ice lollies. Crack on. Anyway, do you know what?

[Simon Scott]

I actually feel a lot better. You know, I feel like I've eased my pressure valve somewhat, just vibing and hanging out and just.

[Jordan James]

I love the fact that you started this, like, podcast of making me so miserable at the moment, and then you're a podcast. You're like, I feel much better. And that's. That's the power of your and I's friendship, is that we'll crack on here and it doesn't feel like work. This feels like time off.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, you're right. Yeah, it does.

[Jordan James]

It does feel like, firstly, we don't get paid for it, so that's a shit. But it's just. But that's the thing. It's just you and I hanging out chatting around and just shooting the, and, and that's, you know, of course we will do episodes where we have guests and we'll talk about important subjects and you know, but overall this, this is therapy. This is weekly therapy session that thousands of people a week listen to. Well, that's a bit worrying in it. Confidentiality. I was about to say. Not a thing. Yeah, yeah, just out all the bits where I talk about the murder. What?

[Wayfair Announcer]

What?

[Simon Scott]

Plead the Fifth? No, you are right, dude. And like what, but like what you were saying earlier about neurotypicals and how they get energy from people. I get energy from the right people. And even just hanging out with you for, you know, 40 odd minutes and you the listeners, just hanging out with us wherever you are, listening to this and just shooting the, and hanging out with my mate and just going, you know what? I'm, I'm under the cosh right now and I'm feeling it. I've had a little bit of event, I've had a rant. I've admitted that I'm jealous of a multi million pound youtuber who's playing a video game I'm desperate to play and I actually feel a lot better.

[Jordan James]

I feel worse because now I'm jealous of a multi million pound youtuber.

[Simon Scott]

You can enjoy that and run with that feeling now. Thank you.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, if only I could go back like 15 years when like YouTube first just really started kicking off with video games and I wasn't sitting around going, who would watch someone else play video games? And I'll be like, do you know what? Someone would definitely watch me play video games because I, I am a rage machine and my kids think it's hilarious. But I'm getting Mario Kart and I'm, I'm like snapping a steering wheel in half.

[Simon Scott]

Like, ah, yeah, I was watching. I don't know if you've ever seen, There is a, I don't know, your son Simon will have definitely seen this guy. There's a, I don't know what they call it. I think it's like vtubers. It's where people play games and they have like avatars that like green screen.

[Jordan James]

No, no, I, I'm well aware of what that is.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. I'm just saying. But there's one that's called the peanut.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I know, I, I know, I know the burnt peanut and all the people that are trying to copy him.

[Simon Scott]

But the rage base that he, where he like loses his is genuinely so funny.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, he is so funny. I, I, I, Yeah, he is. Every Six I wish him every success. That guy is a comedy genius.

[Simon Scott]

It was when they were doing the duel thing. I was watching an Arc Raiders video the other day when he was like in a duel and he like knocks a guy and he's like going, please heal me, dude. And he goes, the time for talk is over. This is the time for action. He's just like, starts shooting all of his mates.

[Jordan James]

Funny thing is it's literally a talking peanut.

[Simon Scott]

He's literally just. He started a whole war, like on a video game to the point the developers had to get involved and were like, you cause in too much action. And he's like, well, people are buying your game because of me, so you're welcome. Well, yeah, I need to do that. Maybe I could be. I could just be the burnt out peanut.

[Jordan James]

Maybe that's what the burnt out peanut.

[Simon Scott]

And on that note, ladies and gentlemen, I think we'll leave it there. We're gonna have a hot topic for you tomorrow and I'm gonna go and try and find some time to be free and have some free time. Thanks for hanging out, dude. I've actually really appreciated today. I've really needed it. So thanks.

[Jordan James]

That's right, I'm the bald banana nightly. Bye.

[Simon Scott]

Bye everyone. Thanks for tuning in to the Neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you. Whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next one for more conversations and insights into the neurodivergent experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, tick tock. Just search for the neurodivergent experience. Thank you again for listening and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey.

[Wayfair Announcer]

Hey there, it's Wayfair here. Where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app when you spot it. A brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too. All right, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast expert setup on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app Wayfair

[Simon Scott]

Every Style, Every Home what's up y'? All?

[Jordan James]

It's Bailey Zimmerman and my jeans have been through some things. They've seen a lot of mud, a lot of late nights, a lot of heartbreak and a few bad ideas, and they're still standing the test of time. They're American Eagle. Shop the full collection right [e-mail].

[Simon Scott]

ACAST Powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.

[Danny Pellegrino]

The Real Housewives is a guilty pleasure for most, but if you're looking to not feel guilty about that pleasure, tune in to Everything Iconic with Me, Dani Pellegrino, where I break down all the messy moments and behind the scenes antics of Bravo's popular franchise. On Everything Iconic, I also interview celebrity guests like Kelly Ripa, Keke Palmer, Drew Barrymore, Cameron Diaz and more about their guilty pleasures, their past work, and so much more. So if you're pop culture obsessed and find yourself watching way too much reality TV like me, tune in to Everything Iconic with Danny Pellegrino. Wherever you listen to podcasts,

[Simon Scott]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.