Boreout vs Burnout: Burned Out or Just Bored?

Summary

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The Neurodivergent Experience

Episode: Boreout vs Burnout: Burned Out or Just Bored?
Hosts: Jordan James & Simon Scott
Date: May 6, 2026

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the concepts of "boreout" and "burnout," especially through the lived lens of neurodivergent experiences. Jordan and Simon explore how chronic boredom ("boreout") can generate symptoms nearly identical to traditional "burnout" and discuss why it matters to distinguish between the two. Through humor, honest chat, anecdotes, and self-reflection, they highlight the challenges neurodivergent people face when navigating a world that often fails to provide appropriately stimulating, meaningful, and challenging environments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

[06:10] What Is Boreout—And How Did You Find It?

• Simon says burnout is a frequent topic, but “boreout” is new and compelling. He describes how reading about it explained personal periods of low energy, mental health dips, and spirals of internalized laziness.

  "Why is nobody talking about this? Because it makes so much sense as to why I have these like dips of low energy, low mental health, low motivation and then the internalism of 'I'm lazy' kicks in." (06:40)

• Jordan recounts realizing his chronic malaise wasn’t always burnout from too much, but sometimes from "being bored to sick." He researched "boreout," discovering:

  • It's the opposite of burnout: under-stimulation causes similar symptoms.
  • The "three no's": No challenge, no interest, no meaning—often work-related, but also present in home and life.
  • Symptoms overlap with burnout: depression, anxiety, apathy, insomnia, headaches, even tinnitus.

  "Under stimulation literally causes the exact same symptoms as burnout." (08:21-09:53) "You could be a stay at home parent and experience boreout." (10:45)

[13:41] The "Feel" of Burnout vs. Boreout

• Simon: Burnout feels like “the brightest torch imaginable in my face, everything’s bright, sensitive.” Boreout is like “gravity’s been turned up—walking through sludge.”
• Procrastination, loss of motivation, and insomnia can come from under-stimulation, not just sensory overwhelm.

[17:52] Dopamine, Zinc, and the Drive for Stimulation

• Jordan: Neurodivergent brains often crave dopamine, like “having diabetes and needing insulin.”

  "We have diabetes of the mind for dopamine... ADHD is just a bunch of letters... In this neurotype, we struggle chemically to create dopamine." (17:53)

• Simon and Jordan joke about attempting dietary supplements (like zinc) in the quest for “mental balance.”
• Both reflect on "dopamine hunting" as a core feature of neurodivergent existence.

[21:21] What Does Boredom Actually Feel Like?

• Jordan: “Like doing a puzzle, but you’re missing all the center, so you only end up with edges.” Also, “like eating McDonald’s—never filling, never satisfying.”
• They discuss how interests and special hyperfocuses can lose their appeal suddenly, a cycle familiar to neurodivergent listeners.

[23:31] Loss of Engagement & Social Media Dopamine

• Jordan discusses how sharing photography and writing on social media provided vital stimulation but now feels empty due to engagement drop-off—leading to boreout.
• Algorithms that limit creator reach further dry up this engagement, amplifying symptoms.

[27:41] Rejection Sensitivity and Motivation Loss

• Simon reflects how decreasing “success” online triggers rejection-sensitive dysphoria (RSD) and motivation loss—often misread by others (and self) as laziness or depression but deeply tied to lost stimulation.
• The pattern: engagement → dopamine → loss of engagement → boreout → depressive symptoms.

[29:57] The Tightrope: Balancing Boredom and Overload

• Neurodivergent folks often teeter between burnout and boreout.

  "We’re literally like teetering on the edge of this like cliff... but there’s cliffs on both sides. It’s just like a ledge, a fence you’re balancing on." (29:57)

• The "healing" for one can cause the other—reducing commitments to avoid burnout can actually cause boreout instead.

[31:57] Burnout vs. Boreout—Key Differences

• Burnout: From excess—overwork, high stress, lack of control.
• Boreout: From absence—monotony, under-stimulation, lack of meaning.

[33:24] Social Boreout & Empathy

• Boreout can happen in interpersonal relationships: losing engagement with conversations not because of lack of care, but lack of stimulation.
• Empathy in neurodivergents might shut off like a switch, not from lack of feeling, but from being overwhelmed or under-engaged.

  "Sometimes empathy can literally be like a light switch that our brains can just turn off because we can experience it too much." (35:58)

• Preference for stories or interactions that are concise, high-impact, and emotionally moving—as in movies or music, not endless real-life recitations.

[41:44] Strategies & Real-Life Implications

• Both hosts reflect on the challenge of seeking environments or work that energize and engage.
• Jordan: As a security manager, the routine is boring—he craves the rare “action” moments that bring stimulation.

  "It's reacting to things that I actually enjoy. That's the part of the security job I enjoy." (44:17)

• Simon: Loves the synergy of creative collaboration; solitary editing bores him, making productivity harder.
• Companies fail neurodivergent employees by refusing to harness and act on their ideas, stifling innovation and engagement.

[56:42] Boreout for the Undiagnosed

• The hosts ponder how many undiagnosed neurodivergent people struggle with boreout, misattribute their malaise, and judge themselves harshly for “laziness.”
• The mismatch between what your brain needs and what environments provide can be torturous—especially if social demands are high, but stimulation is low.

[58:15 & 59:48] How to Identify & Respond

• It’s essential to distinguish between boreout and burnout:
  • If you keep cutting activity to treat “burnout” but feel worse, perhaps it’s boreout.
  • "The healing for one can be the cause of the other." (58:16)
• Seek stimulation if understimulated—try things, seek novelty, re-engage, experiment with environmental changes or new activities.
• Experiment, reflect, and don’t automatically assume “rest” is always the cure.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Bore out is basically the opposite to burnout in the fact that under stimulation literally causes the exact same symptoms as burnout." — Jordan (09:07)
• "Burnout feels like somebody has got the brightest torch imaginable right in the middle of my face... Bore out for me feels like somebody's turned gravity up. Everything's like walking through sludge." — Simon (13:41)
• "We have diabetes of the mind for dopamine." — Jordan (17:53)
• "I'm just sick with boredom, man. I'm so, I'm bored. So bored to sick." — Jordan (08:56)
• "I used to have like different outfits every day, like trying to be – I'm a businessman today or I'm a homeless person." — Jordan, on his “undercover” store detective days (45:05)
• "My brain's probably going, too much care, need to shut down enough of that, thank you. But then it's also not got any novelty to it or any urgency to it... You could have told me this in a tweet, you know?" — Simon (36:33)
• "We're just constantly walking this tightrope... And now there's this new thing of bore out. So I'm like, okay, I'm bored... Oh, I've done too many. I'm in burnout. Where's the balance?" — Jordan (30:51)
• "The healing for one can be the cause of the other." — Jordan (58:16)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• [06:40] — Introduction to "boreout" and why the term matters.
• [09:00–11:30] — Defining boreout and the “three no’s.” Symptoms & similarities to burnout.
• [13:41] — Physical and emotional comparison of burnout vs. boreout.
• [17:53] — Dopamine, zinc, and “diabetes of the mind.”
• [21:21] — Describing the lived sensation of boredom as a neurodivergent person.
• [23:31] — Special interests, changing engagement, and social media dopamine cycles.
• [29:57] — The "tightrope" analogy—balancing between boredom and overload.
• [31:57] — Burnout and boreout: explicit differences.
• [33:24–39:40] — Boreout in social interaction, empathy switches, and emotional detachment.
• [43:56] — Work environments that energize (and those that sap energy).
• [56:42] — Undiagnosed neurodivergence and the risks of misunderstanding boreout.
• [58:15–59:30] — Practical tips: identifying boreout vs burnout, strategies for each.

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Actionable Takeaways

• If traditional “burnout cures” (cutting stimulation/rest) make you worse, check for boreout.
• For boreout, actively seek out new stimulation—projects, hobbies, social engagement, creative work.
• Both over-stimulation and under-stimulation can “break” a neurodivergent brain; awareness is crucial.
• Workplaces should recognize and enable neurodivergent employees’ need for challenge and innovation.
• Self-forgiveness is important: it’s not laziness, it’s neural wiring.

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Tone & Style

The episode features characteristic Neurodivergent Experience banter: candid, irreverent, humorous, and occasionally self-deprecating, always rooted in real talk. Simon and Jordan oscillate between comic riffs on zinc tablets, “diabetes of the mind,” undercover dress-up, and raw reflections on depression, motivation, and the ache for meaning.

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For Further Listening

• [Snippets from this episode on Instagram: @JoeTheAutisticPhotographer]
• Explore more about emotional regulation, masking, and identity in other Neurodivergent Experience episodes.

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"I hope after this conversation, you, the listener, have taken something from this... It's really making me think about a lot of the experiences I've had—and reframing them with new context." — Simon (56:42)

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If you think you’re burnt out but don’t feel overextended, consider: are you just under-stimulated—and what could you do about it?

Transcript

[Simon Scott]

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[Xin Yi Pai]

Hi, I'm Xin Yi Pai. Five years ago, I sat down in front of a microphone with a simple goal. To share stories from the Asian American experience and to do that by talking about everyday objects. Now, 10,000 Things is headed into its fifth and final season and we've got a new set of stories about coming fully into oneself. Weird and wild and inspired. Tune in to the final season of 10,000 things from Acast Creative Studios, a podcast about modern day artifacts of Asian American life and the stories they reveal. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jordan James]

Foreign.

[Simon Scott]

Helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.

[Jordan James]

Welcome to the neurodivergent Experience Podcast, a podcast where we share the lived experiences of neurodivergent people to help create a better understanding for our community.

[Simon Scott]

Join us every week as we bring you honest, raw and inspiring conversations with specialists, advocates and individuals who know exactly what it's like to live the neurodivergent experience.

[Jordan James]

I'm Jordan James, a neurodivergent specialist, father of neurodivergent children, husband to a neurodivergent wife and author of the Autistic Experience. And I'm joined by my best friend.

[Simon Scott]

I'm Simon Scott. I'm an autistic ADHD broadcaster, actor and advocate. Join us as we journey into unraveling the neurodivergent experience.

[Jordan James]

Hello. Hello, you lovely, lovely listeners. This is the network.

[Simon Scott]

My work finally paid. Off we go. Yay.

[Jordan James]

Well done, Scotty. We finally, we're finally there.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, it took us a little while. Hello, listeners from the Autistic Culture Podcast networks. The Neurodivergent Experience is here. Hello. It only took months and months and months, but we are now officially, legitimately a part of the network. So if you're in the Autistic Culture Presents feed and you're going, this isn't ldc. This isn't the Autistic Culture Podcast. No, it's the neurodivergent Experience. We are now a part of the offering of your listening experience. And if you're listening on our usual feed and you're going, what's that about? Check out in the show notes. I'll put a link. We'll not bore you with it here.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, we're expanding. That's, that's what we're doing. And not, not just because I ate crisps last night.

[Simon Scott]

I was going to say I had a donut last night. I might.

[Jordan James]

We're expanding in multiple ways, but it's all for good for our mental health. I don't know about yours, but I feel great. So just quickly, before we get on to this very, very important subject that we're going to talk. I've been taking zinc supplements. Now, we're going to do a whole thing about this at some point, but I just wanted to quickly get it out there. Apparently, according to a professor in America, the fact that neurodivergent people, or just people in general, have things like, you know, mental health issues and depression, anxiety and things like this, a lot of the time is due to too much copper and not enough zinc. And so if you take zinc supplements, that balances it out and. And makes your copper levels go down and your zinc levels go up. That's the theory and it's supposed to help. So I was like, looking at this zinc supplements. It doesn't do any harm, you know, just two little tablets a day. Very, very cheap, by the way. Very, very cheap. And after four days of using it, I've recently been having lots of bouts of depression, like in and out, in and out. Like feeling really good one minute, feeling like what is even the point of doing anything the next minute? I don't know what was causing it, but what I. Which is why we're going to get onto this today, because I think I figured out what is causing it. But just to say that yesterday and today I have. I haven't had any of these thoughts and I've been getting them daily for months now. Months and months. And just since taking these zinc supplements for a few days now. Causation and correlation, we all know correlation isn't causation, but I feel good and there's no harm in it. There's no harm in taking some zinc tablets unless you're allergic somehow. Can people be allergic to zinc?

[Simon Scott]

Scotty, of all the questions you've asked me today, that's the one I can't give you an answer to. But maybe.

[Jordan James]

Oh, my God. What is even the point of view?

[Simon Scott]

Do they also make you a dick?

[Jordan James]

Yeah, exactly. Zinc tablets make me the person I was born to be.

[Simon Scott]

Great. Should we get with the episode?

[Jordan James]

All right, professor,

[Simon Scott]

don't ask me. I don't know.

[Jordan James]

Unbelievable. You have one job. To know whether people can be allergic to zinc or not.

[Simon Scott]

Take it off my cv.

[Jordan James]

You had one task.

[Simon Scott]

It's in my bio and everything.

[Jordan James]

Zinc expert.

[Simon Scott]

Not anymore.

[Jordan James]

Anyway, we've got an episode. So what are we Talking about today, Scotty?

[Simon Scott]

Well, my friend, you and I have discussed on this show and the listeners, long time listeners of the neurodivergent experience will know that burnout is a regular topic on this show. We've discussed it in length about our own previous experiences and I've, it seems to be the topic that I speak to a lot with other neurodivergent people. And then there was a phrase that you introduced to my lexicon the other day that has really had me thinking, which is bore out.

[Jordan James]

Bore out.

[Simon Scott]

When you said bore out, my echolalia went very nice. I have. And I was like, what, what is bore out? And the more I've been researching this, I've been going, why is nobody talking about this? Because it makes so much sense as to why I have these like dips of low energy, low mental health, low motivation and then the internalism of I'm lazy kicks in this stuff and it really starts to spiral. But finding a name of these things has been a real big help in my respective journey of just improving my life. And I think this might be a bit of a game changer. Dude

[Jordan James]

Came to my attention simply because I, I've said it before, but I, I, I, I am very oddly self aware. It's, it's why I became a neurodivergent specialist was by originally just being interested in my own brain and my own reactions and, and my own experience of, of neurodivergence. Learning all about neurodivergence and then comparing myself to it. You know, it's a part of discovery when you first find out that you're, you know, autistic, adhd, OCD or whatever, you know, you, you want to find out, you know, how, how does it correlate to me, you know, exactly. Well, I would hope that you would want to know that. So I'm, I'm always open to learn. I never ever think that I know enough. Not let alone everything. I never know enough.

[Simon Scott]

Like I don't know enough.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, exactly. I never know enough. So I always want to know more and everyone. And you said it to me the other day when I was explaining my, my symptoms of just these weird bouts of depression, feeling tired, lethargic, just like, just not right. And you said, oh, it sounds like you're in burnout. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, no, that's right. But you know, a few, about a month ago or something I went, I was doing training in London and both times I went on the train and I had anxiety sickness, my stomach Felt sick, but I couldn't explain why. I'm like, okay, the train journey was a bit anxious, but maybe that's it. Or am I anxious about going to London? Whereas I don't, I don't know, I work out of London. That's, it's not my norm. Am I anxious about that? And I was going over it in my head and then I suddenly realized that, oh, I'm worried, like I'm anxious and I'm sick because I think the training is going to be boring or I might be bored during it. And that made me feel sick. But again, it didn't really connect in my head at that point. I just thought, you know, that's one of the things that's making me anxious. Out of many things that might have made me anxious. And the other day I kept feeling sick. Weirdly enough, I do have a reason for that. And it's not bore out. But I'll tell you, I'll tell you later about it. It's very stupid why I kept feeling sick, but I was thinking, I'm just, I'm having these bouts of depressions, I don't really feel well, but I'm not overstimulated. I'm not overstimulated. But she's the cause of burnout. I'm not. And then I thought, oh, I'm just, I'm sick with boredom, man. I'm just, I'm so, I'm bored. So bored to sick. And that's a phrase. You're sick with boredom. It's just a genuine phrase. So I thought, why is that, is that an actual thing? Could you actually become sick from being bored? So I looked into it and the first thing that came up was bore out. Which is basically the, the opposite to burnout in the fact that under stimulation literally causes the exact same symptoms as burnout. So the core causes are called the three no's. No challenge, no interest and no meaning in tasks. Now a lot of this is, is work based from a lot of my research is work based. But you know, you can just put it to life. Not everybody has to go to work to experience Borat. You could be a stay at home parent and you could just be bored and experienced Borat. I think it's very, very entrenched in neurodivergence. Not saying it's, it's exclusive because again, we experience things worse, but we don't experience things exclusively or most things. Symptoms are similar to burnout. Symptoms including depression, anxiety, apathy, insomnia, headaches and tinnitus. Or tinnitus.

[Simon Scott]

Put it with a lot.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, you and my about say very autistic, but you can't be more autistic than other. But some people could definitely be more anal. My very anal autistic friend who I work with, he gets it a lot as well. And you can look out for it with the behavioral markers of just not being engaged. You know, it's, it's just chatting, pretending to work, you know, pretending, you know, masking that you're busy because you just, you're just not motivated by the things that you do. But again, it's very work based. It can severely affect your mental health and lead to really, really like, it can make you do a bad job or you can make you make mistakes in life because you, you don't have any motivation to do well at them. Yes, this, this does affect work a lot because people work a lot. So it's really interesting because I definitely like yourself was reading about this and I was like, yeah, I'm not in burnout. I'm in, I'm in bore out. I'm in bore out. I think I've been in bore out more times than I've ever been in burnout. And every time I think I've been in burnout and I'm having meltdowns from being overstimulated, which has happened. I've. I think I've equally had enough meltdowns and enough like anxiety and sickness simply because I'm not stimulated enough now.

[Simon Scott]

That makes an awful lot of sense to me. It's like I feel like upon some self reflection and reading on this, that bore out and burnout come out in me in two very different feelings. Burnout for me feels like somebody has got the brightest torch imaginable right in the middle of my face all the time. It's like, oh, everything's bright, everything's tough, everything's sensitive. Bore out for me feels like somebody's turned the gravity up. Everything is like, it's like walking through sludge. I can feel my whole body being pulled down. And so much of that is caused by things having a lack of meaning and having a lack of a challenge. Like if I'm working on something, right? Like, I do an awful lot of editing of podcasts and things like that. If somebody says to me, oh, here's a two hour interview going, go and clean it up and edit it and turn it into something after about 10, 15 minutes, dude, I can feel my hand reaching for my phone all the time, constantly trying to procrastinate like, to the point of I almost have to get rid of things that are stimulating out of my vision. Otherwise I am just gonna completely down tools and pick up the thing that's way more interesting than the interview. But then if somebody turned to me and went, but you can make a minute's worth of sound design on the beginning of it, that'll make it really interesting. One should take me three hours. The other one should take me an hour. If I'm engaged and I'm interested, I can do an hours work in 10 minutes and do it real well if I'm truly, truly engaged. But then something that should take me maybe four hours, could take me eight. And it feels like physical torture trying to sit there and do it. It's like literally everything in my brain's going, walk away, Simon. Just stop doing this. Go and do something else. And I think a lot of that is why I have insomnia. And I sometimes struggle to sleep because I'm too bored to sleep.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, absolutely. Because you're. I mean, I've. I've said it so many times that I think sleep is. For me, it just feels like such a waste of my time.

[Simon Scott]

If I didn't have. Dude, I wouldn't. I said that in my diagnosis. Yeah.

[Jordan James]

I just plugged myself in like a phone and charge myself up.

[Simon Scott]

I said if I didn't have to sleep, I wouldn't. It's literally like a complete and utter waste of time for me. And my, my Mrs. Caris loves sleep. She's like, if I could sleep 16 hours a day, I would sleep 16 hours a day. And I'm like, I. If you could plug me in, and I literally just need an hour to charge. Oh, that'd be the dream. I'd get so much of what I actually want to do done.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I mean, I, It's. It has opened the floodgates in my mind of, of just looking back over my life and, and certainly what I have been going through recently. And, And I think it's, you know, I, I did get a lot of entertainment, a lot of fun sometimes. Always. Not always nice engagement, but even that was entertaining. Dealing with trolls through social media. And I, I had a great time on social media because it, it did entertain me. It was like an adrenaline thing. Yeah. And it, it is a, It's a, It's a need for dopamine. You know, I mean, that's a lot of people that put adhd, and so that's, that's just like a chemical need for dopamine. Like I said, this is just, this is an alternative neurotype. And I think our alternative neurotype, when you're born neurodivergent like we are, I think that, that, that dopamine, we don't naturally make it like, like, like we need to. And I kind of feel our desperate need for dopamine is the equivalent of like having diabetes and needing insulin.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, preach.

[Jordan James]

We have diabetes of the mind for dopamine. That's. That to me is, is what we have, not adhd. ADHD is, is just a bunch of letters and it's a bunch of things said about, from psychologists who, who judged and went, this is a thing, this is a neurotype. And in this neurotype, we struggle chemically to create dopamine. That's why this zinc thing is apparently very good. Because that zinc thing, apparently copper stops your dopamine,

[Simon Scott]

isn't it?

[Jordan James]

Yeah, this is a theory. So maybe the zinc is giving me more dopamine. A theory, not a fact. But I'm willing to, to give it a go. And like I said so far, who knows, to come back to me in a month and I'll be like, dude, I'm having the best time.

[Simon Scott]

I'm buying stocks and zinc.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I've just become like a zinc salesman, just going, licking zinc wherever I can get it.

[Simon Scott]

I'm just like going, zinc ink in my brain. Zinc ink help you think with my.

[Jordan James]

Doesn't. Doesn't Guinness have zinc in it?

[Simon Scott]

It's got a lot of iron in it.

[Jordan James]

I always remember when I used to

[Simon Scott]

work in ir, I used to work

[Jordan James]

two very different things many, many years ago.

[Simon Scott]

And I vividly remember an old saying to me, it was like, you could live off this. I was like, well, how's that working for you, my friend? Because you're crusty as hell.

[Jordan James]

I'm gonna tell Silver Guinness has zinc in it. And then she'll be like, oh, you need to have more Guinness. I'll be like, oh, no. Okay, then I think that's a really

[Simon Scott]

good time to have an ad break. Hopefully Guinness or zinc will be giving us a sponsor straight after this. We'll be right back discussing more on burnout versus Bore Out. We'll be right back.

[Ashley Dupuis]

Hi everyone, it's Ashley Dupuis here, the in house therapist on the neurodivergent experience and host of Mindful Mondays. And if you've been listening to these podcasts and thinking, gosh, I'd love to explore this work more deeply, I'd love to let you know about what's coming next. This September, I'll be opening a small group coaching cohort, a gentle, supportive space to explore the kind of work we've been doing here together. So if you've been resonating with the From Mask to Map series or with the deeper themes we've been exploring on Mindful Mondays, this will be a chance to take that work further in community with guidance, reflection and practical tools to help you understand yourself more clearly and move through life with more ease. So if that speaks to something in you, I'd love to hear from you. You can register your interests by emailing [e-mail] and you can also keep an eye out on integrativeiom.co.uk UK where I'll be sharing more details over the coming weeks.

[Simon Scott]

Welcome back to the Neurodivergent Experience, right here on the Autistic Culture Podcast Network. We've been discussing a really interesting little theory that has crossed our path, which is bore out and the differences between that and burnout. I'm interested. Dude, I said in the previous section how boredom feels in my body. It feels like gravity has been turned up by like 10. What does boredom feel like for you? Like internally?

[Jordan James]

Oh, like doing a puzzle, but you're missing all of the center, so you only end up with edges. So I feel like on the outside I, I feel fine, but deep inside I, I just feel like something's missing. Like it's not, it's not. I'm not full. I'm not satisfied. Like, oh, like eating a McDonald's, like, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like that's, that's helped me. And then literally like half an hour later you feel, are you hungry again? But because it's not, it's not substantial amount of food, it's not a good food. Do you know what I mean?

[Simon Scott]

No, no, I know exactly what you mean.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I can do, I could do little things here and there that, that keep me entertained enough, but they never fully satisfy that need for, for entertainment.

[Simon Scott]

I can imagine as well, that must be quite frustrating because when you're in that period, like you've, you've been really successful in, in your neurodivergent career. You know, you're a writer, you're a world renowned photographer, but you and I have had a lot of conversations where things that used to satisfy you and scratch that itch, suddenly just stop doing that. I think that's something that a lot of neurodivergent people experience, especially the ADHD element of it as well. In the one day my special interest will just stop being special to me and it can really, really mess with my head. But we've talked about that many, many times where as soon as something doesn't feel as challenging or as rewarding or as successful, it's like it dies. I'm wondering whether that is associated sort of with bore out as well, because I have mistaken a lot of times during burnout of going, this doesn't interest me anymore. And now I can't use it to regulate myself. But I'm wondering whether bore out is that itch that stops itching. Do you know what I mean?

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, oddly enough, like before we went for the break, I was talking about social media and then I. It wavered off, as it does, as it often does. I saw a squirrel in my mind. But yeah, that social media thing is that like when it came to photography, the original thing was, you know, to be out in nature and, you know, then I do doing my post processing with nice music and I. And then as I, as I got more and more known and then I got more and more engagement and suddenly I went from like, never really having any friends, never really chatting with anyone. Suddenly social media like, opened this whole other world where instead of me sitting around going, oh, I'm pretty crap at everything, I had thousands of people, literally thousands of people telling me how freaking brilliant I was. Not only photography, but like, you know, as a writer as well, and how I explain, you know, things and compare things and describe how the. My neurodivergent. Not everyone's. My neurodivergent mind sees the world. And it did. It definitely scratched that itch, man, because it was, it was exciting. I couldn't wait to post another photo or another article and see the responses and engage with people. And yeah, we got twats and arguments and stuff like that, but. Because since I've disengaged from social media, you know, because it was better for my mental health to, to a certain extent. But also I, I do miss it. I mean, I still get the odd post here and there that, that people engage with, but it's because the algorithms, it's nothing like it used to be. So that time where I was being bored and I would be on my phone chatting with people and, you know, even if I was just thanking them for saying nice things, but just communication with the. My followers and my fans and just. It did, it felt good, man. And I, I do miss that. And I miss it. And it's Facebook and Instagram are just, they've destroyed themselves for creators. 107,000 followers on Facebook and I reach about 1 to 2% of that reach, let alone likes or comments or anything. Just a reach. I literally put a picture on Instagram, really, really beautiful picture that I took the other day of, of a pelican onto my Instagram. By the way, go on my Instagram, check me out. Joe, the autistic photographer, because I couldn't fit Jordan. Apparently

[Simon Scott]

that's what we've ended up with.

[Jordan James]

Jordan, yeah, or George Jordan James on Instagram. And I put on Instagram. I haven't used Instagram for a while and I put on Instagram and I think I've got 9,000 followers on Instagram. Right. Like not a lot, but you know, it's a good amount and currently I'm looking at it and it has been seen by not, you know, engaged, just seen by 297 people. And I have nearly 9, 000 followers and 297 people have have seen. So it's like, well, how the hell am I going to share my photography? How the hell do people see my photography if it, it won't. Let me do it. Just, just let me, let me show the pictures. I'm not selling anything. I mean I do sell my photography, but I, I don't advertise. I sell my photography. I just want to show people my photography and I can't even do that.

[Simon Scott]

Well, two things that are coming up there for me is one that must trigger rsd the like, you know, comparison is the feet of joy because you've been used to having a certain type of engagement and anything less than that feels less than. So that obviously must, you know, feed into that feeling of going, it's not as engaging, it's not as in. It's not as challenging. What's the point?

[Jordan James]

Exactly that, exactly that. That lately I've just been feeling what is even the point in posting at all. And, and this Borat is related to that in, in. In the sense that I had this thing that I did find really, really entertaining and really fun and really engaging. And now I don't have that and it has left that hole.

[Simon Scott]

Well, what I find quite interesting, right, is it you've got that hole. That's the interoception is not my thing. Not even close. But I can totally see how that could increase your sensitivity in like your social interaction. Like executive dysfunction spikes, like a loss of motivation. And I could personally, if that was me, somebody putting something out there into the world and would feel like it's not, you know, necessarily going my way. I would lose motivation, I would feel more sensitive and I would misread things and I would then feel down about it and then I'd be like, oh, well, you used to do that. I'm being lazy. That all sounds like burnout. But everything that I've explained there for me represents my burnout. It's like fatigue, irritability, sensitivity, loss of motivation, skill regression, loss of social interaction, agraphobia are all what I view as my symptoms of burnout. But at no point do did I ever correlate that that could be triggered by boredom. That, that makes total sense to me. Like my pattern matching brain is seeing the correlation there. It really is. It's kind of, it's, it's a bit scary really, because I'm like, I can never be bored again.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. But I mean now, now, now. I mean I'm going to go over the exact like comparisons in a second. But I just want to say, my God, it's so hard being. Indeed. Yeah, so hard. Because we're literally like teetering on the edge of this like cliff. But there's cliffs on both sides. It's just like a ledge, a freaking fence that you're just balancing on.

[Simon Scott]

Constant road walking.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Couldn't think of a tightrope in my head. That's clever of me. It's like the most obvious comparison. I'm going, it's like walking on a tree branch but a million miles in the air. You mean like a tightrope? Yeah, that. Well, that's the one. Anyway, There you go, Scotty. You've. You've come back from your.

[Simon Scott]

I didn't know put it in me bio.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I didn't know if zinc causes whatever.

[Simon Scott]

I'm back, baby.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, you're back. Yeah. Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah. We are just constantly walking this tightrope. And now there's this new thing of bore out. So I'm like, okay, I'm bored. So I'm leaning to the left. I'm falling down this hole. Oh, wait a minute. I'm gonna go and do loads and loads of things. Oh, I've done too many. I'm in burnout. So I'm like, where, where's the balance? I need the balance. I need to find the balance. So anyway, yeah, just, just, just a fun thing. And, and if you're listening and you're like, that's how my life feels. I'm just constantly on edge. That is why we are literally on the edge of, of this Cliff slash, branch slash, fence slash, tightrope, tight row. So, yeah, get the key differences between burnout and bore out. Burnout is caused by excessive work, high stress, lack of control. Bore out arises from under stimulation, monotonous tasks, and unlimited opportunities.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, like taking the bins out when it's raining and I want to go bed.

[Jordan James]

Do you know what? I've literally just thought about it. How much of my PDA is connected to Bora?

[Simon Scott]

Because it doesn't. It doesn't stimulate.

[Jordan James]

It doesn't stimulate me.

[Simon Scott]

Like, even getting up and closing the door because your dog walked in, you're

[Jordan James]

like, and that's not exclusive because there's a lot of things that I really do want to do that PDA stops me doing.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, of course.

[Jordan James]

But there are. There are a lot of things in. My PDA is like, no, no, I'm not doing that because it's not stimulating enough. See, a lot of people that, you know, they'll. They'll look at somebody with a high IQ and they go, oh, yeah, you're so smart. And just like. And I'm like, I. I don't want this. I don't. I don't want this goddamn curse. Stupidly high iq. And I'm like, I don't use it. I mean, I might, but it's not, it's not useful.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, I have it all the time. Dude is like, you'll ask me a really important thing, like when a bill is due or when I have my dog to the vet, and then somebody will ask a very obscure question, and they're like, oh, now we can go. Like, it's just like, why? Come on, man. Like

[Jordan James]

Sylvia, this morning, I started, like, talking about this, like, really, really complicated thing. And then I was going really into it, and I was giving all the backgrounds and things, and she was just looking at me like, we're on a walk, like. And I'm like, yeah, sorry. So, so sorry.

[Simon Scott]

But I experienced burnout bore out in, like, social interactions. I. I can give a. A very recent example. It happened last night. And I was. I was explaining this to my. My darling partner, and she just sort of, like, blinked at me as if to be like, huh. So I hope it makes sense to you listeners, but there's a TV show that I'm watching currently, Legends of Vox Machina. I've gotten into dnd. I've started watching, like, D D people online.

[Jordan James]

It's a very, very good cartoon.

[Simon Scott]

It's really good, really enjoyed it. And I. I know that this is just sort of A relationships thing, marriage thing. But it just also made me think in that my missus will come home from work, she will regulate herself or have a little bit of quiet time, but it always seems to be, as soon as I go, right, I'm gonna put a show on. I've been really looking forward to watching all day, and we can watch it together. As soon as I press play, story time starts, and she'll start telling me all about her day. And I'm trying to be engaged, I'm trying to listen, but there is a magnetic force that is literally pushing against the front of my forehead and my brain that's going, I don't want to listen to this. I want to watch this.

[Jordan James]

Yeah.

[Simon Scott]

And that's really hard to navigate because I'm aware I'm being a dick. Also, my brain. My brain can't help it.

[Jordan James]

But you're not being a dick because being a dick is actively doing it. And there's. There's no reason behind it that you just. You just don't care about Carys.

[Simon Scott]

You.

[Jordan James]

You just. She's just an object. You know that that is your partner, but, you know, further from the truth, which is. Which is literally the opposite to how that is. So it's not that you don't care. It's just that you are struggling to care in that moment because your brain will literally just can't. And. And I. I've. I've definitely had this. And this. This is a big reason why I think a lot of people say that we. We struggle with empathy. And I keep saying empathy is not. It's not the same for us. It's a diff. Again, we experience the same things in a very different way. And empathy is definitely something I experience in very different ways to. To how I understand the neurotypical experiences it. And this is just one of those things. It's like, I think. I think sometimes empathy can literally be like a light switch that our brains can just turn off because it. Because we can experience it too much.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

So I just cannot deal because we. Because our levels of empathy are so high, our brains have a shutdown system. Like an overheating computer will shut down until you fix it because it knows that if it turns on, it will set fire.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, dude. My brain. My eidetic brain just made an image bore out for me. Is like when the screensaver turns on. The computer's idle for so long, and then the screensaver turns on, and you're just like, ball.

[Jordan James]

Do you have that little ball that just bounces around.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, I'm waiting for. I've been waiting for that to hit the corner for months, man. Yeah, but that's genuinely what you've just said. There is, like, light bulb moment for me in the. There have been so many times where I have been in social interactions where people are telling me really sad. And it's not that I don't care. Sometimes it's the boredom of the delivery in that somebody's telling me a story and I'm like, this is really boring. And I disengage. And it's not because I don't care. It's because my brain's probably going, too much care. Need to shut down enough of that, thank you. But then it's also not got any novelty to it or any urgency to it. Like, I've been sat with people before where they're communicating with me and my brain is sat there going, you could have told me this in a tweet, you know, like, you're in a half an hour conversation, and I'm like, you could have just summarized that in, like a minute. And the whole time I'm in that conversation, I'm restless, dude. Like ants in my pants. Itchiness. But then off the back of that, like I was saying earlier, going, oh, I'm the. In this situation, even though I can't help it, but I feel that internally that I'm not a great guy and I'm not a good person because I'm not empathetic enough or engaging enough. And then the RSD symptoms kick in, and then suddenly we're teetering over onto the other side of the tightrope. And that's a burnout warning for me right there. Like, it all seems so connected.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. I. And I. I think it's just in my head, I am. I'm. I'm a very, very emotional person. Heart on the sleeve. Puts it all out there. That is. That has always been me. And I've. I've watched movies and I've blubbered like a newborn. There's been smacked on his ass. Right. I've just been blub. I mean, don't even get me on Lord of the Rings. Just like, just the music of Lord of the Rings triggers. Don't even get me started on boring Me dying.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, God, come on. We've not got time. This is literally what I was like, urgency.

[Jordan James]

And then if. If something's happening in real life, it's very rare that I will have the same feelings as, like, that. That same emotion, because I've I've been around people and they've told me, like, the most horrific things that have happened to them. I don't know. It's. It's like, I say it's like that switch where I'm just like. But I. I think it's because it's not entertaining enough and that sounds really awful. It's like, oh, someone told me about this.

[Simon Scott]

That makes so much sense.

[Jordan James]

Attack. And I'm like, well, if you put like music on top of this and if you delivered it in like an Oscar winning way and, you know, maybe some better lighting or some. I don't know, like, honestly, I mean, I don't know a lot of people that don't get emotional at the beginning of up at the end of Toy Story 3. I mean, that's like, it's like covered

[Simon Scott]

from freaking Toy Story 3, man.

[Jordan James]

It's like there's some seriously emotional things, right? And then. And I've literally been around people that have told me about the most awful abuse that they've been through as a child and, And I'm just like, oh. And I. I can't explain, is it because I. I feel awkward about it or I don't know what to say. I mean, it's definitely that I don't. Yeah. Like the themia. I mean, there are so many reasons that I'm not reacting in the way that I should into the point where I literally have to like, mask it of, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. You know, say the words that I'm think that I'm supposed to say, but I don't feel like saying them. And it's not that I don't care. It absolutely isn't that I don't care, is that I care so much. I, like, I just break down. But also, is it possible that they're just not entertaining enough and it's just not stimulating me to a point where it's going to activate that emotion. Like a scene in a movie or a TV show that is deliberately, you know, edited in a way that it will trigger your emotions. I'm just wondering, like, it's a really interesting thought about this bore out thing. It's really good. So the last thing I want to say about, about the comparison before we go for a break. Burnout feels like being overworked and overextended, as we know. You know, just that feeling of just when. When you only put a tiny bit of Marmite and it just spreads really, really thin, really thin on your bed. If you don't Like Marmite. Well, I don't like you, so. And bore out. Feels like under challenged. Are you way too much Marmite? Just like, you've just gone up, you've gone too much Marmite and now you're sick of Marmite.

[Simon Scott]

You were trying to put salt on your chips. The lid came off covered in salt, and now I don't want to eat them no more.

[Jordan James]

That one.

[Simon Scott]

And just before we go to a break as well. It's just made me think of something. Yeah, hold up. I'm not finished. So I was talking to Karis the other night, and it's just made me think of something funny in that. She was like, oh, you're such a good storyteller. I was like, thank you. My theater degree wasn't wasted. And she went, but you always seem to exaggerate what actually happened. I was like, well, I will tell you why for that is because I always remember when I did screenwriting and like, playwrighting, they said, drama is life with all the boring bits cut out. And I always cut the boring bits out. Like, I will tell somebody a story, I'll cut the boring bits out. And the way that I sell it, it's always like, well, that's not how exactly how it happened. Yeah, but they'll remember. It's like, I'm not gonna remember the boring story. And that's. It's tied to exactly what you were saying. There are some times where I feel like I disengage from empathy. And in the nicest way possible, it's because the person that's telling me is boring.

[Jordan James]

I'm glad you said it, but this

[Simon Scott]

is a space to be honest and real. That's the dear Diversity.

[Jordan James]

You know that story about your dad being murdered in front of you? That's not interesting enough because you are monotone and you haven't.

[Simon Scott]

Don't work on your grief or the investigation. Work on presenting better. Maybe a PowerPoint or something.

[Jordan James]

You're gonna start telling people about your trauma. Make it interesting.

[Simon Scott]

Work on. Make some puppets or something. Really sell it. You take a break.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, we need one.

[Simon Scott]

We'll be right back. Welcome back to the Neurodiversion Experience, right here on the Autistic Culture Podcast Network. And we've been discussing bore out and how people's stories that are sad sometimes bore me. But I'm just being real. Anyway, interested question to ask. We always sort of wrap up with how can we work on this and what works for us? Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But, dude, intrigued. What kind of work or environment gives you energy because that's what's tied to this Borat, right?

[Jordan James]

Yeah. I mean, as far as my work is concerned, I think Borat is just gonna happen because I work in security. Security because it's, it's, it's action based, as in I have to jump into action when something happens.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

So for a lot of it, you know, as a manager, it's even more mundane because it's, it's day to day, it's paperwork, it's, you know, rostering, you know, keeping an eye on, watching other people do their job. And, you know, there's not a lot to do. That personally really gets me engaged with that. And it's pretty much the same every single day. It's. It's reacting to things that, That I actually enjoy. That's the part of the security job I enjoy. I mean, I actually miss being a store detective because, you know, catching people, Nick and stuff while undercover used to be a lot of fun. I used to have like different outfits every day, like trying to be. I'm a businessman today or I'm a homeless person.

[Simon Scott]

You have never told me that you were doing like, dress up, dude.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Yeah. This is so cool. No, when I was the only store detective to ever do it, every store detective I ever knew just used to wear the same sor of clothes. They used to just dress like they were dressing every day.

[Simon Scott]

And you, Roger from perform?

[Jordan James]

Yeah, no, I would, I would wear like ripped like hoodies with like dirt on them to make myself, you know, look. Look like I was probably the person that. I'm not saying that people like that do Nick things, but, you know, that is the genuine.

[Simon Scott]

Like you were playing up to the stereotype.

[Jordan James]

I was a little bit, but other times I, I would literally would just play dress up. It was super fun. Anyway, enough of that. But in. In my day to day job now, you know, I wear the same outfit every day. I, you know, I wear the same uniform every day. I do the same thing every day. So when we do get like a fire alarm or a first aid thing or a protest or, or anything that, that might possibly happen. And I have to admit, where I work, it's quite quiet, so it doesn't happen often, but when it does, that's when I'm going, oh, you know what? I love this part of my job. I do. I love being busy in my job and it's, it's fun. But yeah, it doesn't happen that often. So I, I do get really tired, really tired. Really low. And. And I do get these bouts of depression at work, but I wish I didn't get him at home, but I. I do. And. And, I mean, we've all talked about, like, seasonal depression, and it's definitely. It's not just the lack of sunlight. It is also just. There's not enough to do. Is it just me or, like, all modern TV shows, they're just carbon copies of each other. Because I swear I watched Slow Horses and I was like, oh, I really like this show. And then 75 other shows have come out that.

[Simon Scott]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Jordan James]

But even Slow Horses just kind of reminds me of Luther, and Luther kind of reminds me of Frost. And, like. And after a while, like, these shows are just. And now they can't even come up with original ideas, so they're just pumping out stuff that's just, like. Apart from the recent. I say recent within the last few years. Maverick movie and the. The Regeneration, I think it's called of. Of Scrubs, which I found brilliant. Malcolm, the middle thing, man, was right. And they've bought back, like, how I met your father, man. And, you know, they keep going over these things, and. And they're just not as good for the. For the most point, they're just not as good as they used to be.

[Simon Scott]

The thing that I struggle with is, like, the HBO style of everything. Like, I saw the trailer for the. The new Harry Potter TV show, which I'm. It's not my thing. Not bothered about.

[Jordan James]

I'm not interested at all.

[Simon Scott]

Yep. But I was watching it, and I was like, why is it being lit? And the, like, color palette, like the Sopranos, it's Harry Potter, so everything's like, that moody, bluish, grayish. Yeah, it's like the freaking. Yeah. It's like this Zack Schneider's sort of. Yeah. That, like, sepia sort of grayish tone to it. But what you were describing there with work, it makes me think of, like, guys that are on army bases, and as soon as, like, missiles and gunfire starts firing, which is, like, scary and terrifying, people respond with, oh, finally some action. I'm sick of sitting around here and doing niche. And that's. That's the. That feeling. Definitely that feeling. But I relate with that. Dude. It's like, when I'm at work doing podcast production, the bit that I love is the recording and working with people and meeting people and developing their ideas and bouncing off their ideas, and it feels like there's a real tennis match of energy happening. You. I love synergizing and working with people and, like, Getting excited about a project. And then as soon as I'm just sat in my office at home in front of a computer and I have to put it together, it's really hard to start. Like, once I get into it, I get in a bit of a flow state, and it feels creative, amazing. But sitting in front of my computer with two audio files, it feels cold. There's, like, no heat coming off of it. There's no, like, residual energy coming off the task. It's just. It's ice cold, and I've got to heat it up. And it's like. It's just so. It genuinely feels like there's a magnet that's pushing me away from the task. And this is why I struggle with having my phone and Instagram near me, because I just get. I just instinctively, like a cowboy reaching for his gun and his holster, I just pick it up and I don't even realize I'm doing it. And it's because I'm procrastinating and I'm naturally bored, but it's hard to sort of. Like, the things that energize me is like, being outside sunshine. Remember that? And talking to people. So when I have to actually forcibly sit at a computer, I can't bring my massive computer set up outside. I can open a window. But if anything, that's. That sometimes can be worse because I'm yearning to be outside it. It's. It can sometimes be the hardest place for me to work. So a lot of the time, I'll pick up my phone, I'll text people, or I'll ring people to try and, like, get that feeling and that engagement. Because I. I love. I love hanging out with people, but I also don't like being in front of them all the time. So it's like this constant contradiction thing. But it's. Yeah. When you're talking about, like, work and environment, I love bouncing ideas off people. I love that workshop sort of energy where people in a room are going, right, guys, what. What creative masterpiece are we gonna make with your ideas? How can I work with you and watch you grow and teach you skills and learn things about somebody that I've never met before and apply it to my own skill tree? What ideas have you thought of that have never even crossed my mind. How can we turn it into something? What? Fireworks? Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. My brain is literally like a combustion engine, and I hear myself speak about stuff at work, and I'm teaching stuff, and I almost have that moment where I go, shit, I'm really good at this. Like, I'm loving this. The energy I'm getting, and I feel alive. And then as soon as the call ends and I actually have to sit down with the audio file and do something with it or, you know, go back to writing emails and stuff, I genuinely feel like somebody's just poured quicksand, like, over me and I'm just like, just boot down and screensaver comes up again.

[Jordan James]

No, I know how you feel. I, I think one of the worst things that has happened from my work life is the fact that I will in the past. I've been at the same place for 18 years now. It's like, need two decades. And I've been a manager for over a decade. And certainly when, you know, the reason I got promoted was because I used to put so much effort in and I would create tasks and I would show my initiative and I would go the extra mile and I would, you know, go to. To show that I was valuable, you know, so, you know, got promoted because I put the hard work in, and then I continue to put that hard work in of, of trying to show them different ways of doing things, trying to make the. The things that we did do more streamlined, you know, more effective. And, you know, I would put that, you know, brain of mine to, to use. You know, I would be able to see things the way other people can't see them. And I would try and do changes. And then obviously, so many ideas that I had, the really good ideas, man, people would absolutely think they were great ideas. And then they would go to, to. To the budget people, and then they would be turned down. And it was like, well, no, these, these aren't cost effective or death by bean counting, literally. And I was like, well, don't you want the best security you can possibly have? And they were like, no, we want the cheapest security we can possibly have. And that just blew my mind. I'm like, if you're gonna spend money on something, spend it on the right thing. Because they were wasting money in one point, and then they weren't. And I could see that. And I'm. And a lot of people don't like the fact that the security guy is telling them how to do their job. And I'm like, sometimes you're too smart and people don't like it. And I had that since I was a child, where I would talk to adults and tell them why they're wrong, and they would hate it because I was a child. And how dare I point out the fact that they were this, that. It always takes me back to that time I was in class and I told the bloody teacher about freaking flying squirrel. She said there was no such thing as a flying squirrel. And I'll tell you there is. There's a gliding flying squirrel. Anyway, enough of that. I had that motivation and because it kept hitting a brick wall after a while I just went, what's even the point? What? What it was even the point in trying. And then I got into doing all the neurodivergent stuff and then I. Because obviously I got very, very bored at work doing the same thing. So I got into all the neurodivergent stuff and the photography and you know, because I had depression. So I probably had depression because I was bored at work. That, I mean, I think about it now, like I said, this Borat thing has just made me think about all these things and I'm like, I think a lot of my depression was not just me feeling bad about myself was. I was just chronically bored because I wasn't being stimulated enough. So suddenly I got into photography and then suddenly I got into social media and suddenly I got into, you know, doing talks and the book and all these things that I was doing at dude, that was entertaining enough and I felt great again. And then now those things are sort of not coming to a head. You know, they'll always be there. But I haven't got as many projects going on or I haven't got like specific things other than this podcast I'm. I started have that bore out again. You know, so when, when you're at work and you know, seeking out purpose in your work, it's down to employees to keep your staff motivated. Because if you keep your staff motivated by, by engaging and actually, you know, listening to their ideas and actioning them and stuff like that, then you're going to have a better workforce. And there's. These companies don't see that. And I think their cognitive dissonance gets in their way of their productivity.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, that's a, that's a really, really good point. And it's making me think of, I wonder how many undiagnosed or you know, unaware neurodivergent people are struggling with bore out and going through identity frustration because they're like, what's wrong with me? Like just that sort of self reflection. And I think as well, I've experienced this. I know that you do and I'm sure you, the listener have as well that walking the tightrope of being overstimulated socially. But under Stimulated intellectually and just really struggling to sort of navigate that mismatch between your environment and what your brain needs. Makes me want to take my bones out of my skin and throw them away. It's the most uncomfortable feeling in the world. Being bored and then being stuck in a social interaction, it literally fries my brain. But I tell you what, man, after this conversation, I hope you, the listener, have taken something from this and maybe it reflects your own experiences. It's given me so much to think about, dude. Like, so much to think about to sort of reflect on and go, was I burnt out because I was bored or did I recover from burnout? But then I was bored and just got stuck there. It's. It's really making me think about a lot of the experiences I've had the past few years and. And reframing them with new context.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I think is this is such an important one for people to know and, you know, sorry, if you're listening and now it's just giving you an extra thing to stress about that.

[Simon Scott]

Yes.

[Jordan James]

Or maybe that. But it really is helpful to know if it's bore out or burnout, because they are literally polar opposites. And the, you know, the healing for one can be the cause of the other. So you, you really do need to know which one it is. So I really do hope this has helped and it has got you going away and going, okay, maybe this isn't burnout. Because so many times, like, literally, you pointed out the other day every symptom I was telling you about that I'm feeling, you're like, that sounds like burnout. And the reason I didn't think it was burnout, not that I disagree with you, it just, it never even went into my head, oh, I'm in burnout. Is because I didn't feel like I'm doing anything that would cause burnout. If anything, I'm trying to do less because I'm thinking that I'm stressed. So I started doing less things, thinking, oh, maybe I can't handle doing anything at the moment because I'm feeling like this. And then finding out that I'm feeling like this because I'm not doing anything. So I need to now go and do more things and see how that works out. Owen Zink.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, and zinc. Zinc sponsored by zinc.

[Jordan James]

Again, it's not. But not, not a fact, a theory, but a theory that I am definitely on board with at this time. But just quickly, I did say that I was feeling sick lately. A lot of it might have been bore out But I actually found out there's a particular reason I've been getting up in the morning, trying to be healthy, trying to, you know, drinking a big glass of water and having a lot of creatine bursting in the morning. And I didn't know this, but you're not meant to take creatine on an empty stomach. Yeah, and I have been, because it's the first thing I put into my mouth in the morning is creatine in a big glass of water. So, yeah, that's the reason I've been sick.

[Simon Scott]

Well, the more you know.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, don't. Don't do creating on an empty stomach.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, like everything that we always suggest, just because it works for us, doesn't it mean that it won't work for you? But I, you know, we're trying to help each other out and just give each other the tools that sort of are working for us. Like, I also take creatine, but I have it like lunch time.

[Jordan James]

Yes, that. That is now when I'm going to have it, at least after breakfast. Not like the first thing when I wake up.

[Simon Scott]

Let your stomach have an hour of digestion.

[Jordan James]

It's very, very good for you, especially when you're old like me.

[Simon Scott]

Not that you're old, but yeah, it does. Old man. Well, that's been today's episode. I hope it brought you some information. If not that, at least it was entertaining and didn't bore you, you know. Yes, thank you. Well, this has been this week's neurodivergent Experience right here on the Autistic Culture Podcast Network. We will be back.

[Jordan James]

Are we on the Autistic Culture Podcast?

[Simon Scott]

We are. We are.

[Jordan James]

I'd like you. I mean, you haven't mentioned it, so I wouldn't have known.

[Simon Scott]

I've got to keep mentioning it. It's called a plug. Right, we're going now. Thank you, everybody for listening. Please rate and review this show. If you've never heard it before, it would be great to have you back here with us.

[Jordan James]

Us on the Autistic Culture Podcast Network. Sorry, network.

[Simon Scott]

Network.

[Jordan James]

I don't even know where I am right now. Bye, everybody. Nightly. Bye.

[Simon Scott]

Thanks for tuning in to the Neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you, whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next one for more conversations and insights into the neurodivergent Experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, follow Facebook, Tik tok. Just search for the neurodivergent experience. Thank you again for listening and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey. Acast powers the World's best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.

[Liv Albert]

The world of ancient Greek myth and the wider history of the Mediterranean is and always will be incredibly relevant. Whether you have a casual interest in myth or are a dyed in the wool nerd for the ancient world, you will find your fix with let's Talk About Myths Baby. I'm Liv Albert and together with my amazing producer Mikayla Pangowish, we bring the context, intricacies and the stories of ancient Greece and sometimes the wider Mediterranean to life. Let's Talk About Myths Baby has something for everyone. Listen to let's Talk About Myths Baby wherever you get your podcasts, new episodes every Tuesday and Friday or find more

[Simon Scott]

[e-mail] Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.