Getting Engaged the Neurodivergent Way!

Summary

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The Neurodivergent Experience

Episode Title: Getting Engaged the Neurodivergent Way!
Hosts: Jordan James & Simon Scott
Date: June 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into Simon Scott’s recent neurodivergent-friendly engagement, exploring how major milestones like proposals, weddings, and celebrations can be uniquely adapted for autistic and ADHD folks. The conversation delves into social expectations, tradition vs. personal preference, emotional responses, and the importance (and pitfalls) of sharing big life events, all through a candid, often humorous neurodivergent lens.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Neurodivergent Engagement—Simon’s Story

[03:35] - [10:05]

• No Surprises, Full Transparency:

  • Simon tailored his proposal to Caris’ (and his own) needs: “Caris and I don't like surprises. Right. So if I was to turn around to Caris and be like, oh, yeah, we're going to a hotel at the weekend, pack her bag, she would freak out […] it wouldn't be fun.” [04:34, Simon]
  • He ensured Caris could choose her ring and be prepared for the event, addressing anxieties around lack of control and sensory comfort.

• Accommodating Special Interests:

  • Chose a hotel where Lady Gaga had stayed—Caris’s special interest—in the same room.
  • The proposal setting included neurodivergent-friendly details: spa time, clear schedules, familiar menus.

• Emotional Response & Processing:

  • Despite the predictability, both were overwhelmed and emotional: “She just punched me in the arm, literally, like… And then she started crying. So I started crying and we were both just like, I love you.” [08:04, Jordan & Simon]
  • Simon went briefly non-verbal following the event, illustrating the intensity of even “planned” milestones for neurodivergent people.

• Celebration Aftercare:

  • Noted the positive aspect of attention and support, feeling “celebrated” without the negative “being perceived” feelings often experienced at big events.

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2. Rethinking Traditions and Social Expectations

[10:05] – [29:58]

• Milestones and Meaning:

  • Discussion around if pivotal life moments can live up to their hype, and whether they’re worth celebrating even if reality doesn’t match fantasy.
  • Using technology privately: “If you turn social media off... and just use your phone as a camera, it can be a wonderful thing for memories and celebrations.” [11:45, Jordan]

• Social Media & Sharing:

  • Preference for sharing big news within tight-knit, private circles over public forums, noting discomfort with public attention from strangers and the performative elements of social media.
  • “Not everything needs to be on the Internet. Not everything needs to be content.” [14:59, Jordan]

• Tradition vs. Neurodivergent Logic:

  • Both hosts question conventional wisdom (e.g., engagement ring "should be three months salary," must have a free bar at a wedding) as arbitrary and illogical.
  • “So many people say that ND people get hung upon rules. But I'm finding a lot of neurotypical people just blindly do things because that's what they think they have to do.” [25:52, Simon]

• Selective Boundaries:

  • Strong advocacy for inviting only people who truly matter: “If I had a wedding tomorrow... 30 people—those are the people I know and like.” [34:11, Jordan]
  • Jordan’s approach: cutting even family out if the relationship isn’t genuine or mutually fulfilling, regardless of tradition or obligation.

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3. Contextualizing “Big” Events for ND Brains

[29:58] – [44:20]

• Numbers and Comfort:

  • Both agree weddings and similar events should be small and comfortable. Simon’s theoretical cap: “Anything above 50 [guests] like, that's the top, top cap. If it was up to Caris, we'd elope.” [37:10, Simon]
  • Larger events often feel impersonal and overwhelming—“Hard to do when you're at a wedding with 200 people. It's just not gonna happen, is it?” [48:12, Simon]

• Tradition and Social Pressure:

  • Discussion of being “trained” to please others and the mental load/people-pleasing that ND folks regularly face.
  • Importance of honoring one’s own boundaries and comfort, both for major milestones and day-to-day life.

Notable Quotes:

• “Society is so conditioned into being like, this is a thing that happens because it's always happened.” [19:44, Jordan]
• “Just be like me and everyone the fuck off. Because I have never been happier in my life where I just learned to put myself first so then I can then look after other people.” [48:21, Jordan]
• “People are already preparing me for the politics that come around a wedding.” [29:33, Simon]

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4. Friendship, Solitude, and Personal Agency

[44:20] – [52:18]

• Quality Over Quantity:

  • Both hosts discuss preferring smaller groups, or even solitude, over large social gatherings: “I don't do friendship groups. I do individual friends.” [45:12, Jordan]

• ND “Timeouts” and Self-Regulation:

  • Group hangouts with fellow neurodivergents are easier, as everyone implicitly understands the need for breaks and alone time.

• Growing Through Self-Care:

  • Jordan explains the necessity of prioritizing his own wellbeing in order to be a better parent, partner, and friend—a learned skill, not innate.
  • “If you are neurodivergent and you're trying to do the neurotypical appeasement thing, that's going to make you uncomfortable.” [48:21, Jordan]

• Applying this to Relationships:

  • Simon credits the strength of his relationship with Caris to both learning to look after themselves first, then each other.

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Memorable Moments & Laughter

• Simon’s deadpan description of becoming a “12-year-old boy” during the proposal:
  • “I got on one knee and the whole time I'm there going straight back, Simon, straight back. Don't...be like Gollum, like, oh, please accept my love.” [08:13, Simon]
• The roast of corporate gift-giving and cake culture in offices:
  • “Whoever invented that was a cheap bastard. Who makes someone else buy cake on their birthday?” [21:05, Jordan]
• Jordan’s matter-of-fact stance on not inviting people he doesn’t care for:
  • “You didn't make the cut. Bye.” [31:39, Jordan]
• The running joke of Simon’s Forza session being interrupted by engagement news:
  • “That is actually what happened. That's what I knew.” [18:07, Jordan]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:35] – Simon reveals his engagement, begins describing the “ND way” he planned it
• [04:34] – How surprises and lack of prep create anxiety for neurodivergent people
• [07:37] – Special interests in milestone events (Lady Gaga hotel story)
• [10:05] – Discussing milestone expectations and the role of social media in sharing good news
• [13:15] – Private sharing vs. public posting, toxicity of social media
• [19:44] – Critique of arbitrary traditions (“bring your own cake” on birthdays)
• [25:52] – The difference between ND and NT adherence to tradition and rules
• [29:58] – Family politics and the struggle of demarcating wedding invite lists
• [37:10] – Comfortable numbers: How big is too big for ND-friendly weddings?
• [44:20] – Boundaries, rejection of people-pleasing, and advocating for personal comfort
• [48:21] – Lessons on putting oneself first as an ND parent and partner
• [51:04] – Closing thoughts on ND celebration styles: “I’m really glad I did the proposal our way.”

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Tone & Delivery

The episode’s tone is honest, humorous, and frequently irreverent—embracing the “do it your way” attitude of many neurodivergent folks. Jordan and Simon oscillate between raw vulnerability and playful banter, challenging social norms while advocating for self-acceptance and authentic celebration.

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Conclusion

Simon’s engagement story becomes a springboard for exploring how neurodivergent people can, and should, adapt traditions and expectations to suit their sensory, emotional, and social needs. Listeners are encouraged to create boundaries, reject mindless tradition, and claim agency in celebrating life milestones—the ND way.

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Notable Closing Quote:
“I learned how to look after myself so that I can help look after her and vice versa. We both are very good at looking after ourselves, which means that we've got the energy and the space to help each other.” [51:40, Simon]

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Episode in a Sentence:
A heartfelt, hilarious, and thoroughly ND take on engagement, celebration, and why putting yourself first is the neurodivergent way to say “yes.”

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Transcript

[Jordan James]

The autistic culture podcast network. The sound of autistic culture.

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[Jordan James]

Welcome to the neurodivergent Experience Podcast. A podcast where we share the lived experiences of neurodivergent people to help create a better understanding for our community.

[Simon Scott]

Join us every week as we bring you honest, raw and inspiring conversations with specialists, advocates, and individuals who know exactly what it's like to live the neurodivergent experience.

[Jordan James]

I'm Jordan James, a neurodivergent specialist, father of neurodivergent children, husband to a neurodivergent wife, and author of the Autistic Experience. And I'm joined by my best friend.

[Simon Scott]

I'm Simon Scott. I'm an autistic ADHD broadcaster, actor and advocate. Join us as we journey into unraveling the neurodivergent experience.

[Jordan James]

Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Welcome back. Jordan and Scotty in the house.

[Simon Scott]

In our own homes. Separate. Very different.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, not in the same house. In. In different houses. Very nice houses. We. We look after our houses.

[Simon Scott]

Well, I tried. Well, don't look. It's a good job that we don't have video because my office is currently a mess.

[Jordan James]

But it's okay.

[Simon Scott]

It's organized mess. Of course it is. I know where everything is. In here.

[Jordan James]

On the floor.

[Simon Scott]

Yes.

[Jordan James]

It's a bit like Sylvia's cupboard. She knows it's all in there. She just doesn't really understand how it works.

[Simon Scott]

Where's your stuff, Simon? Over there, over there and up there.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, yeah. The old ADHD cupboard thing where you just, you know everything's in the cupboard, but you don't know where in the cupboard it is, but you just. You just know it's in there. Yes. It's a real time saver when you have to pull everything out just to find one thing.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. You've already pulled it out and it's already. Yeah. Anyway, that's fun and games in the life of being neurodivergent, but. Yes. Sorry about not having an episode last week. Life got in the way again. I know that we've had a lot of breaks recently, but there's been a hell of a lot going on. I've. I've got some quite exciting news to share with everybody.

[Jordan James]

What is it? I'm so in the dark.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, you're not. I told you straight away, I got engaged at the weekend. Locked it down on lockdown.

[Jordan James]

Locked it down?

[Simon Scott]

Well, yes. No. You know. Yeah. So, yeah, thanks for that. No, So I proposed to Caris at the weekend and she said yes, so. So that's it. I am betrothed. Look at me.

[Jordan James]

Well done.

[Simon Scott]

I'm an adult.

[Jordan James]

For asking. Yeah, for asking someone to marry you. It is a weird thing, though, because it's like, this is like a moment that you're just like, let's celebrate this. It's a big moment. Yeah, but did it feel like a big moment? Because, like, you knew she was gonna say yes. You knew it was going to happen. So when it actually happened, this is like genuine question. Did it feel big?

[Simon Scott]

Oh, I still myself

[Sophie James]

turned around and

[Jordan James]

go, now you're alright. No.

[Simon Scott]

Right, okay, so let me break it down. All right? So Caris and I don't like surprises. Like, we just. Yeah, we just don't like surprises. Right. So if I was to turn around to Caris and be like, oh, yeah, we're going to a hotel at the weekend, pack her bag, she would freak out. She'd be like, what's going on? What do I need? I've not prepared.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Are you actually secretly a spy?

[Simon Scott]

And you're just like, oh, my God. But, like, that would really, really stress her out. And she'd be like, but I've not got my hair done. I've not had my nail. I've not got this. I'm not go. And it wouldn't be fun. She wouldn't have enjoyed that if I just sprung her. I was like, surprise. So there were so many different factors that I've tried to take into account to accommodate that. I feel like I've actually done a really good job from, like, a neurodivergent perspective of navigating the accommodations of it.

[Jordan James]

Yeah.

[Simon Scott]

Because Karis was like, oh, if I'm gonna wear something on my hand for the rest of my life, I don't know if I'm comfortable somebody else picking that for me, which I totally get. I understand why some people would disagree with that because of tradition, but I totally get it. I. You know, if I had to wear a ring on my finger my entire life, I wouldn't be comfortable somebody else picking it for me. Just. I just wouldn't. I get it. So we did that. And I also was like, this is the hotel that we're staying at. This is where we're going. I kept a couple of things as a surprise, which I'll reveal shortly, but she knew what was happening. She managed to go and get her hair done and her nails done, and. And she knew what she wanted to wear for the meal. She knew where we were going. She already had the menu, so she didn't panic when we sat down.

[Jordan James]

Oh, the old. The old prep. Yeah.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. We basically, I doomsday prepped it and got everything sort of chilled. And I'm really, really happy with how it laid out. So we went to an absolutely stunning hotel in Liverpool. And, I mean, I'm never going to financially recover, but we stayed in a. In a beautiful hotel that had, like, a little spa. So we were in the spa for two hours, and we're there having a cocktail, being like, oh, this is so nice. This is so exciting. And I'm sort of there just being chill and not really thinking about what's coming. And when we were in the reception of the hotel, the lady behind the desk saw the notes on the room and was like, oh, okay, I shall get the key for your room. Because I put. I am proposing to my girlfriend. Can I have the romance package, please? So when we got into the room, there was, like, a rose heart on the bed, and it was a booked. A penthouse suite. So there was, like, a hot tub on a balcony with a beautiful view over Liverpool. We had, like, the most amazing sunset as well that night. So it's like I felt like I was ticking loads of really cool boxes. And Caris's special interest, like, one of her, like, big special interests is Lady Gaga, and she has stayed in this hotel, and I requested the same room. So the room that we got engaged in is somewhere that Lady Gaga has stayed. So I felt like I'm ticking the autism box there of getting a special interest.

[Jordan James]

You, you soppy. I know you. You are knocking at green flags. Green flags, everybody.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, so I was, I really tried my best, guys, but as soon as we got into the room the nerves kicked in and I was just like, babe, can you go sit down please and like, become a 12 year old boy. And I literally became a 12 year old boy where I was like, I love you. I've always loved you.

[Jordan James]

She just punched me in the arm, literally, like.

[Simon Scott]

And then, and then she started crying. So I started crying and we were both just like, I love you.

[Jordan James]

So you're gonna cry now.

[Simon Scott]

I love you. Oh, I love you. And then we, I just was like, I got on one knee and the whole time I'm there going straight back, Simon, straight back. Don't like, be like Gollum, like, oh, please accept my love. Like, I wanted to like, take my precious.

[Jordan James]

Oh, my precious.

[Simon Scott]

Be my precious. So did the whole thing in the straight back and everything and put the ring on her finger and then I just went, oh, thank God for that. I can breathe. And just relaxed into it after that and was super chilled. And I went a bit non verbal for about 10 minutes while Karis rung her mum and then her dad and then I rang my parents and sort of did the rounds. But I'll be honest, mate, I've had loads of attention and I've not felt weird about being perceived. It's been really nice. I've had some lovely messages. The girls that are on Karis team bought her some really lovely flowers and a bottle of champagne and she feels like the, the toast of the Tom at the moment and loving life. And the, the rings, stunning. I'm really happy with how everything went. And the next day I had to go back to work and it was just like, oh, okay, that's fine. And it's weird. Like it's a huge, huge life moment. And it's one of those things that. Not that I've like thought about it, but you think like, oh, I wonder who I'll marry. I wonder when I'll propose to them. I wonder what it' and then suddenly it's here and you're just like, oh, and it's done now and we're both super happy, we're both super excited. People are already asking us when we're getting married. I'm like, fucking, hey, just let me just enjoy this moment right now. Thank you.

[Jordan James]

Well, prepare for another couple of years

[Simon Scott]

of that, yeah, I know it's coming, but I genuinely feel like I nailed it, dude. Like, I feel like I really tried to accommodate. I did like good planning and I did it the tism way and I think it went great. So I, I made up.

[Jordan James]

So the answer to my question was yes, then yes. I mean, you took a detour, but I loved it. I loved every moment of your detour. But essentially that big moment, that build up did not get let down. It was as good as you thought it was. Because I, I have to admit, it's like you have this. Especially when you're younger, you have this, oh, yeah, I'm gonna turn this age and it's a big milestone. And then I'm gonna turn this age and it's like, oh, it's like 18. And if you're in the UK, you can drink alcohol.

[Simon Scott]

Not that any of us wait, but your honor.

[Jordan James]

And then, you know, like you're 25 and like that's a milestone. And then you're 30 and then you're sad and then you're 40 and then you're like halfway there and still going. So you've, you've got these like milestones in, in your life and, and I, and I do feel like they are worth celebrating and if, if you, there is a chance that you can be let down by them if you build them up too much. But I, I don't think that's a reason to not to not celebrate it. Like, you know, obviously this year Sylvia and I celebrated our 25 year anniversary. That's a big milestone, you know, and we, we did it really like in only the way that Sylvia would want, which was very, very few people, very small gathering, obviously, you know, it was, it wasn't massive, but we really enjoyed it because, you know, apart from you, because obviously you live in Liverpool, so that was a bit far for you to come for that. Apart from you being there. We had everyone, you know, that we wanted there there and it was, it was really great. And then you go, oh, it's done now. And then you move on. But it's always there. You know, we've got video of it and we've got pictures and this is the greatest thing about pictures and this is the greatest thing about like your black glass rectangles that destroy lives nowadays with social media. If you turn social media off, I know, heaven forbid if you just turn that shit off and just use your phone as a camera or on a phone, it can be a wonderful thing for memories and celebrations and what I Always find interesting is people seem to think that everything needs to be on social media. Like everything.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

Now when, When I was posting a lot because recently I. I think I've posted twice in two weeks on Facebook. I'm barely posting at all. I just, I just can't deal with. Not the hate towards me. I don't get any hate, which is weird that I don't. It's just. It's just all the hate in that space.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. The world's fucking angry. Everything and everyone. And it's a lot.

[Jordan James]

If you use your phone as a tool to, to enjoy your own memories and share your memories with just your friends, it's such a shame because like Facebook was that it was your way of like keeping in touch with your friends, letting them know what you're doing, you know, or wishing them a happy birthday if you. It was a way that friends could keep in touch. Now it's just as toxic and just as nasty and just as this, what, like brain destroying, brain rotting as all the other freaking social media things. You know, it's. There are brilliant things about it, but I think, I think something like WhatsApp groups or messenger groups, like, we've got one, it's just called fam. So. And it's just all the family are in this group and then anytime we do something or Sophie was recently, she was away in Sweden and she was just posting all her pictures and it's perfect because, like, strangers don't need to see that. No one needs to see that. I, I used to post pictures and stuff like that because I was literally in, you know. Well, I am a neurodivergence advocate and I was showing people my life to say, look, you know, look how good your life can be if, if you think positively, you know, and both sides the same coin, all that shenanigans. And I just think it's there, there is something to just keeping it. Keeping your, your memories and keeping your life amongst you and your family.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

And not everything needs to be on the Internet. Not everything needs to be content. It can just. So if you want to share, if you want to like just, you know, make groups, group chats and things like that, that's the best way to do, I think.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, just sort of listening to you there, reflecting on it. There are a couple of photos that Caris and I took over the week.

[Jordan James]

I got one.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. But I'm going to, but I'm going to look at those photos for the rest of my life and really enjoy them and really remember that day in the moment.

[Jordan James]

Get one printed and. And put a nice frame.

[Simon Scott]

Exactly. That's the plan.

[Pura Fragrance Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Simon Scott]

And we've kept a couple of things from the hotel room. Like, they wrote us a lovely note and they. Oh, mate. Anything that was. I've had everything. Literally, people are going to be like, why are you wearing robes and slippers from a hotel? I'm like, they weren't tied down.

[Jordan James]

It's a carpet.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, mate. Yeah, there was a very lovely TV in there. If I had a screwdriver, it would have come in the back of the Uber on the way.

[Jordan James]

Homerpool. They expect that.

[Simon Scott]

But you make a good point in the. I was whatsapping people and sending people pictures and having really lovely messages and connecting with people. And then Caris made a post on Instagram, and 90% of the people that were sending us comments and stuff, I don't even know. I've never even met the carriers, friends and acquaintances. Then suddenly I've got people trying to follow me that have liked this post that I've never met. And I was like, this is weird. This is. I feel like I've put a very public thing out there. I mean, I'm telling thousands of people on this podcast, but this is my way of advocating and expressing myself and where I'm most comfortable, because you cannot see me. And it's not live. But it is an unusual thing, sharing big moments, being neurodivergent, especially when you're getting perceived. But it was an unusual experience for me because I felt like everybody was just so happy for us. Like, I've had lovely comments from people. I've had people that I used to work with message me. You know, I've had lovely messages from a variety of people. I've had friends that have called us and we've had people send us flowers to the house and cards to the house. And I feel like we're. Our love is being celebrated, and it is really cool,

[Jordan James]

sweet love. No, no, I'm not laughing at that. I'm laughing at you saying, we've had this, and we've had people buying champagne and flowers. All I did was send you a message going, yay.

[Simon Scott]

Yay.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, that was. That's all you got from me. All you got. I'm. I am not that person that's gonna think, wait a minute. This is a big moment. I know what I'll do. I'll buy Scotty a gift to celebrate that. That doesn't even come into my head because I'm like, but you already got the gift. The gift is Carys.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, dude, when you text me, I could, I could see you was. You were sat playing Forza or something. You looked at your phone, saw the photo, went, oh, that's brilliant. Liked it sent, yay. Went straight back to the game. And that's all.

[Jordan James]

Oh, my God. That is actually off. That's actually what happened. That is genuinely what happened. That's what I knew.

[Simon Scott]

That's what I was like the middle

[Jordan James]

of a race and I'm like, oh, I got a message and I finished my race, looked, and I was like, oh, yay. Carry on playing. It's a great. I'm on fours of four. I've gone back in time. I've gone back to England, I've gone from Japan to England. And I'm driving around the Lake District now, driving around Ambleside, which is actually where we're going to be staying near in September for my birthday, because Lake District is literally my favorite place in the whole of England.

[Simon Scott]

But what you've. But what you've just pointed out there, I think is actually a very fun ND thing, which is when other people have really big news and they go, oh, we got married, we eloped over the weekend. I just go, nice, and just give a thumbs up. I don't know what to say.

[Jordan James]

Just like, at least you got yay. Because if I'd have just thumbs up the picture, that would have been a real fucking merc that. I mean, I don't give a shit about you blood. Just a little. But the thing is, is the reason what it was just like, yay. Is because you already told me.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, I told you like three weeks ago that it was happening.

[Pura Fragrance Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

And when you told me, then I gave you a big reaction. I didn't send you flowers. I don't know why the. Anyone would. It's a weird thing to do, I think. I don't know why. I. I don't get it. I don't know. Why would I be sending you gifts? No, but that's it. That, that's the thing, is that society is so conditioned into being like, this is a thing that happens because it's always happened.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

And. And so you. It's. It's like this idea that when you work in an office or, you know, you work with other people, that when it's your birthday, you are supposed to buy everyone cake. And I've. And, and the first time I heard this, I went off.

[Simon Scott]

I am pulling a face for people that can't See, I'm like, that's an.

[Jordan James]

And people came out because I went to work one day and there was, like, loads of, like, donuts, you know, like Krispy Kremes everywhere. And I was like, what's going on there? It's like, oh, it's Ron's birthday. And. And I'm like, oh, you bought Ron? And they're like, no, no, Ron brought them in. It's his birthday. And I was like, nope, you're gonna have to start this again. What's happening? And they're like, oh, Ron bought them in because it's his birthday. I'm like, aren't we supposed to. By Ron. Cake on his birthday? No, no, no, no, no. You bring your own cake in. I'm like, fuck that. What are you talking about? And that's. That's a thing. That's a genuine thing.

[Simon Scott]

Buy your own present and summon everybody and go stand around the fire. Children, it's time to open my gift.

[Jordan James]

It's a weird thing. Yeah. So I don't know what happens, but when it's my birthday, I do not bring in cake. And then I go, oh, it's my birthday. And they go, oh, where's the cake? And I go, I don't know. Where is the cake? And then I just look at them and stare at them, and they're just like, oh, aren't you supposed to bring it in? And I went, whoever invented that was a cheap bastard. That's what they were. Who makes someone else buy cake on their birthday? What sort of a rule is that? But it's a big milestone. It's celebrated in a big way.

[Sophie James]

It's.

[Jordan James]

And in an office situation or with. When you have other members of staff, that is apparently a tradition. I don't know if that's just a UK thing or I'd like to know if that's done around the world. I don't know if it's like. I don't know if we've adopted it from somewhere. Sound to me. And I mean this with the greatest respect of the fact that you have literally Trump as president. It sounds like a dumbass fucking USA shit thing that we've just adopted, but it could be that it's just a dumbass British thing, because also, Britain is full of dumbasses, Keir Starmer being the other one. But, yeah, it is really interesting that we have these traditions when it comes to milestones and we just do them without thinking about them. But with. I've always been that person that will go against the grain And I'll just do my own thing.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

But let's talk more when we come back from a break.

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[Sophie James]

Hi, I'm Sophie James, a neurodivergent mentor with four years of experience supporting neurodivergent individuals. As an autistic and ADHD woman myself, I know firsthand what it's like growing up in a neurotypical world and trying to navigate spaces that weren't built with our brains and mind. Whether you're neurodivergent yourself or supporting a neurodivergent child or teen, I offer experience led peer mentoring grounded in understanding, connection and neuro affirming support. Together we explore strengths, build confidence, and develop practical ways to navigate life while embracing who you are. If you'd like to learn more about my mentoring work, visit sophiejamesndmentoring.com.

[Simon Scott]

Welcome back to the neurodivergent Experience. We've been discussing big milestones because I am betrothed, but you were saying something interesting in the first half of the show and it's got me thinking about a couple of other things. So many people that I've spoken to about either before I got engaged or after I've got engaged have all said weird stereotypes that people play up to. And as a nd person, I don't get it. So many people, dude, have said to me, an engagement ring should be 3 months salary. Who the fuck invented that? Because so many people have said it to me where they're like, oh, yeah, apparently an engagement ring should be worth three months salary. And who came up with jewelry?

[Jordan James]

How older? These people.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, variety. I went to watch the England game with a buddy last night who's my age and he was like, oh, yeah, there's that whole thing around the three month salary thing. But yeah, yeah, that's bollocks. And then I spoke to a couple of our family friends that are in their 40s and they were like, oh, the ring's beautiful. I hope you didn't spend three months salary on it. I was like, no, no I didn't. And I've just had a lot of people say things like that to me. Like we went to our friend's wedding a couple of weeks ago and had an absolutely brilliant time. But there were a few things involved in that as well where the, the groom was like, oh, you can't have people paying for the bar. It has to be a free bar. And me instantly pulled the same face that you're pulling now going, what? It doesn't, you don't have to do that. And people go, oh no, no, you, but you do. But they're, they're the rules. Which is quite ironic because so many people say that nd people get hung upon rules. But I'm finding a lot of neurotypical people just blindly do things because that's what they think they have to do.

[Jordan James]

Our rule things come from our like, you know, a divergent sense of justice. And it's more of like, if it makes sense, it's gonna have to be a rule. I mean, there are some like really anal, you know, autistic people that just have to follow every rule. And it's just, it's more like an OCD thing. It's like if they don't follow that rule, something terrible is gonna happen.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jordan James]

It's almost like the don't step on a crack or you break your back sort of mentality because that is OCD is like crippling. But I think it's more of the fact that, you know, especially the, the more intelligent neurodivergence amongst us will have this like hyper logical brain of like, oh, if it makes sense then why can't you just do it? It's like, for instance, when I was in Canada, there's, there's this beautiful walk and ends in a massive viewing, huge viewing platform of this humongous valley with this lake and this waterfall and it's, it's gorgeous. Where you are is gorgeous. There's no need to come off of the, the trail, the viewing platform or the trail. And they've got signs up saying, please stick to the trip. Do not go off. We, you know, we're trying to preserve the nature around. Do not go off the trail. Do not go off the plat signs. I wouldn't have done it anyway. But there's literal signs. And then you look over the viewing platform down below and it's just full of people.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

And you're just like, why, why are you down There. Why have you broken that rule? And because that will make sense. They're trying to preserve the land. They don't want lots of people trampling and destroying the land around there. They've built a viewing platform for. You just stand on that. That makes sense. But then there's some rules that just don't make sense, and you just sort of look at them and go, what? And I think when it comes to tradition, tradition itself, if. If it doesn't make sense, why are you following it? Think about yourselves.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, because, like, for yourselves, we're not planning a wedding. But Caris is obviously, like, it's. It's on. It's unlocked a new feature in her brain, and she's starting to, like, Google things and stuff. And we were sat in bed the other night, and she went, I don't know if I want to wear white. I don't like wearing white. Well, you don't have to wear white if you don't want to, baby.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, whatever you want.

[Simon Scott]

People will be like, oh, it's a wedding. You have to wear white.

[Jordan James]

I'm. I'm going to be wearing a white dress to your wedding. So. Oh, well, you know.

[Simon Scott]

But you know what I mean, there are things like that. Like, I. I actually think what you were just saying there about the justice sensitivity thing has affected me socially, because when I was on that stag do, a lot of the guys that were there were going, it's a stag. You've got to do it. And my response was, oh, yeah, that'll hold up in court.

[Jordan James]

Yes, you, Honor.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, but you know what I mean, like, there are things where I see people do stuff. It's like when I see people cheat at golf, like, what's the point? What's the point? You're playing against yourself. It's not like you're competing against other people. And then they were other people that I used to play golf with, like my grandpa, who would just say to you, but they're the rules. And you'd be like, oh, lighten up a bit. I don't have to wear socks that go over my knee. It's not 1924. And I always used to find I was getting in arguments with people about a lot of these things, and I can already tell that it'll happen, dude. Like, people are already preparing me for the politics that come around a wedding. Because, like, people have already said to us, oh, are you going to invite this person? I mean, the person that I've not spoken to since I was 8 years old. Oh, yeah, but you have to invite them. No, I don't. They go, oh, but that'll. That'll cause drama in the family. I went, oh, somebody who I've not seen for 22 years is going to get upset with me because I'm not inviting them to my wedding.

[Jordan James]

I. You know what? I think your life sounds so fucking complicated because I think you have too many people in it. See, I. I have done this wonderful thing where I have just cut everyone out in my life that I just can't be asked with, right? That. That if they just annoy me even a little bit. If you annoy me even a little bit. The point. I'm like, I just. I just go, why do I talk to you? And they go, oh, well, it's your brother, it's your sister, it's your cousin, it's your auntie. And I'm like, that literally means nothing to me. That literally means nothing to me because I've got a brother in Sweden. I haven't spoken to him for years. Then the last time I spoke to him is when my dad passed away. I had a conversation with him. He was a bit of a dick about it. He didn't really like my dad. I didn't blame him. I didn't get angry at him. It's not like we fell out. We just never talk. And I don't miss him. And he's my actual brother, but you're my brother, and Rick's my brother. And Jake, my nephew, who is, like. He's, like 10 years younger than me, so he is closer to me than any of my other family. And my little niece Bella, I say little. She's again, she's like, 30. And that's who I choose to have in my life. And I've got a couple of sisters that I choose to have in my life, but I don't really talk to them that much. I don't have anyone in my life where it's like a regular thing with family where they would even say something like the stuff that's being said to you. I just don't have people in my life like that, because if I did, I'd be like, nope, see you later.

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[Jordan James]

Bye.

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You.

[Jordan James]

You didn't make the cut. But I. I'm not lonely. I mean, I. I have six people living in my house right now. Right. And I've got, you know, countless friends who. Oh, I just. It's very difficult to keep up with them when you're playing so much Forza. Unless they're playing do you know what? You and Rick and my son have all started playing Forza just so you can like.

[Simon Scott]

No, I've been enjoying it myself.

[Jordan James]

But yeah, not just so you can play with me, but like I've, I've got you into Forza.

[Simon Scott]

Like it's like very, it's very chilled game.

[Jordan James]

Like such a fun.

[Simon Scott]

Just driving around that I was in, I was like so stressed out and I'm so much happier now because I've just got a lot of weight off my shoulder with a few things in life now. But no, yeah, I agree with you because like I've had. My mum was going, oh, you're going to invite this person, but if you invite them, you've got to invite the kids. I was like, no, yeah, just cut,

[Jordan James]

cut your mom at your life. Joking if your mom listens.

[Simon Scott]

There are certain things where, you know, there was like, oh, you. I, I'm going back to the stereotypes thing. I read something literally time is an illusion. Might have been last night. Can't remember I've slept since then. But it was an article that was like, if you haven't spoken to somebody for six months, don't invite them to your wedding.

[Jordan James]

Like, yeah, obviously.

[Simon Scott]

Okay. But it's just interesting how now that I've unlocked this life milestone of getting engaged, suddenly there are these doors that have opened where I'm not being bombarded, but I'm being introduced to weird and wonderful shitty stereotypes.

[Jordan James]

Okay, so here's just odd. I've got two questions for you. The second one's really, really fun though. Okay, the, the first one is, is just interesting. What do. Like, I've obviously listened to a lot of Reddit and you listen to stories about weddings and stuff like that. And they're like, there was 500 people at this wedding. And I'm like, sorry that there was.

[Simon Scott]

There was 250 odd at the one that I went to recently. And it was, it was like at least 200 people I didn't even speak to.

[Jordan James]

Right. But it's. There is no way that somebody knows 500 people. There's no way that someone knows, like actually knows 250 people. I would go far as saying there's no way that anybody knows 50 people. So to me, when there is that many people at a wedding, it is so impersonal that you literally will have this. They say that like you said 250. Like, so who are these people? And it's like, oh, well, we like cousin, aunt, nephew, blah, blah. And I'm like, if I Had a wedding tomorrow, right? 30. I know 30 people and I know them, I know who they are. 30, right? 30 people are coming to my wedding. That's it. And it's not because, oh, I don't want anymore. I'm like, I just don't see the point in any more of that. Because anyone after that, if you don't know them, they're just like, oh, would you, like, like you said all this bollocks about, well, you've got invite, that one. You've got invite. You don't have to, by the way. You don't have to do anything, mate. You invite whoever the. You want. And if anyone says you've got to invite you say, well, I've got to not invite you. Then off. I just think everyone should be more like me. Just, just, just be like, do you know what I like off there? I'm not, I'm not even joking you. Someone annoyed me at work. I haven't talked to them for three weeks.

[Simon Scott]

What was the question?

[Jordan James]

What do you mean?

[Simon Scott]

You were saying there was a. You was going to ask you a question. What was the question?

[Jordan James]

You think it's funny. Like, honestly, as soon as they come in the room, I walk out. I'm not even joking.

[Simon Scott]

Your pettiness is something to be.

[Jordan James]

It's not pet. I just. I've got nothing to say to them. I've literally got nothing to say to them. I literally. I send them an email about, like, if it's work stuff, I'm like, I send them an email, but I don't want to talk to them. I've got nothing to say to them. Yeah, but it's the one that called me immature.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, yeah, fair. That was.

[Jordan James]

And I'm like, I've got nothing to say. And it's like, well, if you think I'm immature, I'm not. That's. To me, that's not immature. It's not like, oh, I'm not going to talk to you. I've got nothing to say to you. I'm not going to waste my breath. I don't want to be around you. And also I want to plant your face into a spiky fence. Not that I've got problems or anything. No, the, the question was, what. What would you consider for you to be a big wedding? Like, how, how many people? What's your maximum? So my, My maximum is 30. What's your maximum?

[Simon Scott]

Good question. Because when I was with my mum the other day, she was like, oh, let's list the people you'd like to come. And as soon as we started listing it, it got full. And in my head I was like, 40 is a busy old room for me. I don't want to be walking around and being like, oh, hi, is everyone doing it? Like you're there for me. Like, you know, I want, I want to enjoy the day. I see a lot of, I've seen, I've been to a couple of weddings where everyone's just like float, like the bride and groom are just floating around checking on everybody rather than it being the other way around. And I don't get that. But I would say like anything above 50 is a bit bonkers for me. I would say like anything above 50, like that's the, the top, top cap. I think if it was up to me and Caris, I think, to be honest, I think if it was up to Caris, we'd elope. She'd just be like, we're off for two weeks and then just come back and be like, surprise. And that's, that's. If I'm honest, I think that's what Caris would want. But then it's the politics of her Nana will be upset, her mom will be upset, my mum would probably be upset. And you just go, oh, we'll just pick the easy option. But yeah, 50. No more than 50. I think anything more than that would be too much.

[Jordan James]

My other question is, do you, like me think that there is a, like a sell by date on engagement? Because I know a guy that every time I say, oh, you and your girlfriend doing that, you go, fiance. And I'm like seven years, she's your girlfriend again. You gotta start again. I think it's, I think it's three years and then she's your girlfriend again. You've got to start again.

[Simon Scott]

Well, the warranty runs out. Yeah, it just becomes a ring. It's not an engagement ring, it's just a ring.

[Jordan James]

It's, it's, it's a ring. It's precious. It's just, it's just a ring. You can't. I know that these two are never going to get married. Like I know they're never going to get married. They're not planning the wedding, they're not looking at it. And when you talk about 50 people, they've probably got about three. There's no way they're ever going to get married. It's just not going to happen. So stop saying fiance or at the very least say fiance all you like, but don't correct me when I say girlfriend when it's so obvious to me because it keeps happening and I'm just like, you're just being a fucking alien.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, I. I would probably say, like, three years. I wouldn't be like, oh, I don't. I wouldn't necessarily say you get like an expiry date, but I know of a couple of couples, actually. I know Caris's auntie and uncle have been engaged for like 30 years and never got married. Never asked about.

[Jordan James]

They were engaged for three and together for 20.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. Then warranty runs out.

[Jordan James]

Yeah.

[Simon Scott]

And then the same in my family. We've got two family friends and they've been engaged for about 30 years and never got married. So, yeah, I would be a bit like, if it got past, like, three years, I'd be like, what's happening, guys? But then I know a lot of people plan, like, really lavish weddings. I know, like, people are really into, like, abroad weddings. I. I wouldn't like to go on abroad for a wedding. I know a friend of mine had like three or four abroad weddings one summer and he went to all of them and spent a fortune turning up to people's weddings abroad in like, Italy and Spain and places like that.

[Jordan James]

Oh, yeah, bugger that. Unless it's somewhere I want to go. I'm like, oh, unless you're paying, but you know, I ain't going.

[Simon Scott]

I mean, is like, if somebody was to say to me, they're like, oh, we want to invite you to our special day. You have to pay over 1500 pounds for the pleasure of visiting us. I'd be like, guys, I can't afford that.

[Jordan James]

Oh, by the way, it works both ways with, with my whole. If you don't know them, don't invite them. If you don't know them, know them. You. You've heard of them or you've met them once, but you don't know them. Right. It's the same with me. So if. If somebody was going to get married and they invited Sylvia and then I've got to go as well.

[Simon Scott]

As a plus one.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, as a plus one. I'm like, why did they invite Sylvia? Oh, they're a client from her beauty days five years ago and they've kept in touch and then. And I'm like, no, that, that doesn't qualify. We. We don't qualify. Like, I can't bothered unless it's like a really interesting. I'd like. We like to go to like an Indian wedding just for the experience.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, yeah.

[Jordan James]

Just because it. That. That's like a really cool Thing, Something like that. Like, like. Or an African wedding. Something like culturally interesting just for the experience, but a bog standard English tuxedo, you know, bollocks.

[Simon Scott]

No, no, I know what you mean. But I've, I've experienced it recently where I know maybe three or four people that I'm not like, hang out and see you every couple of months. Friends, it's. I may see you every three or four years and I just have like a voyeuristic relationship with you through Instagram. And there's like three or four people that I went to uni with that have all got married recently and I found out they got married by seeing it on Instagram. And at no point did I go, oh, they didn't invite me. But I know that people do do that where they're like, oh my, obviously wasn't in the post and they get hung up on it. And I'm happy for people, but I'm also kind of relieved that they didn't ask me because like there's a guy.

[Jordan James]

No.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, well, yeah, but there's a guy

[Jordan James]

that carries, you know that no is a full sentence.

[Simon Scott]

No. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm learning, I'm learning it well. But had a manager who got engaged while they were working together and then he left and he had a career change and got another job and I get on with him. Well, I watch wrestling with him occasionally and we text about wrestling and they got engaged and they got married and he text me and Carrison was like just letting you know that we're doing a small wedding and we're only inviting really close friends and family. Don't take it personally. We were both like, we wouldn't, but there are people that would. And I find that odd. Like it'd be like, oh, the person over the road who I borrowed a cup of milk from one time is getting married. I have to be there. Like there's just some really weird like politics around these sorts of things that kind of really frazzles my brain. Whether it's like numbers or invites or what you should and shouldn't provide, what you should and shouldn't wear. And after getting engaged, it's just opened up a few things to me that I've not had first hand experience before. And a lot of it I'm just going like, why the do people do this? Why do they put themselves through this to appease other people or to not upset people or. I don't know.

[Jordan James]

It's, it's, it's, it's, it's trained you, you. You're trained to, to think. And it's, it's not to think. You're trying to think about others, but it's, it's not like I don't think about other people. I mean, if I didn't think about other people, I wouldn't be here doing this, trying to help people through a difficult time when, you know, understanding, neurodivergence and so on and so forth. And I certainly wouldn't have made the effort to do what I did on Facebook. I do care about people, but I don't care about people being around me. Like, I. Like, if I had loads of money, I would, I would want to give it to help people, right? But I don't want them to come

[Simon Scott]

to me and go, you're quite solitary really, aren't you? Like, you do just like your own space and.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I don't, I don't do friendship groups. I don't do friendship groups. I do individual friends. Like, I think that, like, the most I've hung out with people is like, you, me and Pickle, or me, Pickle and Graham.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. Any more than me Sylvia and Pickle crowd I struggle with.

[Jordan James]

Pickle seems to always be there. But yeah, like. Or when me and Sylvia have hung out with you and Carrots, like, that's, that's couples, like a couple's thing. But I think like three or four people, for me, that's enough. Like, I'm good with that. If it's like a birthday and it's a party, then, you know, 20 people is great. You know, I'm. I'm okay with that, you know, as long as it's my party. But if it's somebody else's party and there's like 20 or 30 people, probably not going to be there. I'll be honest. I'll probably. I'll meet you another time. Because I'm that person that as long as I'm the center of attention, I can do. I can do it. But if I'm not the center of attention and I. Because I don't want to be the center of attention because I don't want to take attention away from the person whose party it is, then I'm going to struggle with it. And I can see your brain worrying. It's like, should I fucking be inviting Jordan to my wedding? No, no, no. I'm not gonna miss your wedding unless you don't want to do it. But obviously I'll be there because you're my brother. But I think I would struggle with, like, Birthday parties and things like that. To be honest, I never really get invited to him anyway, so, like, because all my friends are ND and they're all just like, yeah, we had a small birthday, we had like three people there and, you know, we went, oh,

[Simon Scott]

dude, I had it recently. There was two of the couples that Caris and I hang out with. We're all ND and it's like two of Caris's friends and then all the boyfriends have met and we're all neurodivergent. One of us sat down and they were like, oh, let me tell you about the new Volvo I saw on the street. I was like, ah, yes, my people. And we hang out in like a group of six, if we can all arrange our calendars and remember to turn up and all of this sort of stuff. But we rotate in the. A few of us will be talking and then the other four will just like drift. And like, one of them will go, oh, I need a bit of quiet time. I'm just gonna go and sit over here for a bit. And you just like go, are they all right? And they're just like, hello and wave from the other table. And that's really chilled. There's like no pressure. There's nobody going, oh, why are they sat over there doing their own thing or what has somebody said to. There's like no pretense. There's no like, you know, like underlying, like passive aggressive or anything. But we, even though we love hanging out, we still have timeouts and we go and have like little moments. Like, even after Caris and I got engaged, I needed 20 minutes of quiet. I needed to just go and sit outside and just. I just sat on the balcony and just looked out and just had 10 minutes to myself while Karis was doing something. And that's kind of hard to do when you're at a wedding with 200 people. It's just not gonna happen, is it?

[Jordan James]

I. I completely agree. I think that if you are neurodivergent and you're trying to do the neurotypical appeasement, you know, thing that's going to make you uncomfortable. Just be like me and everyone the off. Because I have never been happier in my life where I just learned to, to put myself first so then I can then look after other people. That, that was, and I've spoken about this before, that was the massive game changing point in my life where I was a dad who had loads of mental health issues, loads of trauma, loads of problems, loads of issues. And I Just kept putting them to the side, putting them to the side, putting them to the side. You know, you've got a man up. You can't. You can't let these things bother. You know, you've got. You've got to be a dad, you've got to be a man, you've got to be a husband. And, and because of that, as good as a job as I did, and I did do a good job, and I can say that my kids. My kids tell me and my wife tells me, and even people that I don't really know that well will tell me that I did a great job. And I did. My kids are flourishing. They're amazing. I. I go over so many moments, right? I wish I'd done that. And, oh, I lost it. And so many of those moments I managed to keep to myself and I hurt myself and, and, or, or, or, you know, I upset Sylvia, even though that she is amazing. But I kind of wish I had just, like, looked after myself and fixed myself, and then I could have been even better than I was. But which is great because now I get to be even better. And, you know, my kids are only in their early 20s and we all get on fabulously, and then I've got grandkids to come, and I'm not going to be a grumpy old bastard. I know, I know I sound like a grumpy old bastard. Thing off. But it's, it's agency. It's. It's having to be able to say, look, I need to just do my own thing. I need to go on a walk by myself, or just like, I need to do my own thing. And then when I do do something with you, you're going to get the best version of me, rather than forcing me to do something that I don't want to do or that I'm not ready for. And then you're gonna be like, what's wrong with him? And I'll be like, why don't want to be here. I'm just being here because I think that it's the right thing to do.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. Yeah. No, yeah. No, I agree.

[Jordan James]

Anyway.

[Simon Scott]

No, I agree. Yeah. No, I'm. I'm really glad that I did the proposal our way. And people, some people were like, why aren't you doing it? A surprise and all this. And I'm like, because this is how I'm doing it.

[Jordan James]

No, it sounds like you had a great time. Brilliant. And you've got amazing memories. You. Absolutely. I mean, Karen, Iris is. Is wonderful, and she deserves to have someone as great as you. You deserve each other. You really do. You're both fantastic people. And like, I, I genuinely, I just, I know you're gonna absolutely freaking.

[Simon Scott]

And you know what, mate? One of the reasons as to why Caris and I are so close and our relationship works as I learned how to look after myself so that I can help look after her and vice versa. We both are very good at looking after ourselves, which means that we've got the energy and the space to help each other. So, yeah, really intrigued how you guys think of this whole thing of dealing with big milestones in life and just going, fuck it, I'm gonna do it my way. And that's the neurodivergent way. So, yeah, thanks very much and thank you for letting me share my news with you. It's very exciting. And don't expect an invite to the wedding. Bye everybody. Nightly.

[Jordan James]

Bye.

[Simon Scott]

Thanks for tuning in to the Neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you. Whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next one for more conversations and insights into the Neurodivergent Experience. Experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok. Just search for the neurodivergent Experience. Thank you again for listening and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey.

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[Simon Scott]

Thanks for listening. Support Autistic led media through Autistic Culture plus and enjoy bonus content, early episodes, and ad free listening. Visit autisticculture.supercast.com to learn more.