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The Neurodivergent Experience
Hot Topic: 14 Million Reddit Posts Reveal a Mental Health Shift
00:29:02
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- [00:00]
Host 1
Oh, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot. Hello, and welcome to the Neurospicy News. Hot topic.
- [00:22]
Host 2
Super hot, super spicy fresh. Here is a article from the conversation. We analyze 14 million Reddit posts to reveal a striking shift in how we talk about mental health. Now, this one stood out to me, dude, because I am an avid Reddit user and I feel like I learn a hell of a lot from it.
- [00:45]
Host 1
Yeah. And I'm an avid Reddit podcast listener. I have dabbled on Reddit, but I, I, you know, I don't really use my phone that much, but I listen to podcasts a lot. Love Smosh Reads. Reddit Love. Two Hot Takes. Those are my two favorites and I listen to them all the time because there's so many episodes and I have learned so much about people, you know, coming from a very neurodivergent perspective of like, I, you know, I will have friendships and, but they're very, I think the, the only actual friendship that I have is like, really, really deep. It's just me, is me and you. Like, that's it. Even, like with my best friends, it never gets that deep. It's always very, very surface.
- [01:35]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [01:36]
Host 1
Even if they have, like, major problems, they won't really talk to me about them. Not because I don't. You know, obviously I'm very good at listening and I'm very helpful, but it's the fact that they can't talk about them.
- [01:50]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [01:51]
Host 1
So listening to, to these Reddit posts, I learned so much about human behavior, so much about, you know, problems and, and also, God damn, men are so terrible.
- [02:06]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [02:06]
Host 1
Just in general, I'm not, obviously, I'm not saying every man, not all men. I'm a mama man.
- [02:11]
Host 2
But it's always men.
- [02:12]
Host 1
But it's not always. But it's always worse when it's men.
- [02:19]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [02:20]
Host 1
Yeah. I'm not going to get too much into that because I was talking about Sylvia, but just quickly, it's like if a woman does something, because I was watching this ex. Worst ex Exes Ever on Netflix. Really good.
- [02:35]
Host 2
I watched it, but I've seen this. It's out.
- [02:37]
Host 1
Yeah, definitely watch it, man. Really good show. And it had the first two or two men and then it had a woman and she was also completely nuts. Right. You know, a murderer and everything. But with the men, it always does seem worse because these are big guys and as manipulative and evil and twisted and horrible. A lot of, you know, the, the, the women who are bad can be when a man is really bad. Because of their physical prowess of being a man, there's always this added, like, fear.
- [03:20]
Host 2
There's always an added fear.
- [03:21]
Host 1
Yeah, yeah. And one of the big things for me is that what I realize, because I really want to get onto this article, I just want to say one of the big things that Reddit has made me realize and just sort of certain, like, reels and things is that when I'm just out and about and I, you know, when I'm walking on my own and I'm doing my own thing and I come across a woman by herself, I am, I am thinking I need to be as least predatory or at least threatening, threatening as I can possibly be. I'm like, I give her plenty of space if I can, and I do the smile, but like, you know, I don't look, oh, I'm going to come and chat you up because I want her to be okay. And I know that, that she is probably thinking, oh God, there's a big guy. He's coming towards me. Because I am, you know, I've got tattoos and I'm physically large and I, I don't want to come off as a threat to especially a woman on her own. And I never really thought about that as a thing. You know, I've never gone up to women in, I've been married for 26 years, I'm way past that. But I've never really thought about that and read it and you know, my daughter and things like that have made me see it from other people's perspectives.
- [04:50]
Host 2
One of the things that I love about Reddit is it's news from the world that is unfiltered or unedited. It's just, this is what I'm thinking, this is what I'm feeling. And I find I learn a lot about people and where they're at. And there have been a lot of times, dude, where I've read things on Reddit that have actually made me feel better about myself in that I don't feel as alone. But anyway, let's get into this article because it's really, really interesting. So this is from the University of Melbourne. And it starts. More people are relying on social media such as tick tock, Instagram, YouTube and specifically Reddit to learn about mental health conditions and to interact with people who have shared experiences. These aren't only long, familiar disorders such as depression, anxiety and schizophrenia. They also include conditions often placed under the neurodivergent umbrella, such as autism, adhd, Tourette syndrome and dyslexia. This is nuts, dude. For instance, on TikTok, the hashtag ADHD has had more than 50 billion views.
- [05:56]
Host 1
Whoa, I thought it said millions. Because there's no way. Billions, billion views. Yeah, TikTok is very popular just a bit, so do not use it.
- [06:09]
Host 2
Yeah, me neither. So the article goes, we wanted to explore how social media platforms shape how we understand mental health. So we analyzed more than 14 million posts and comments about mental health on Reddit. We show a shift in conversation towards ADHD and autism and away from anxiety and depression. Our findings have important implications for how people make sense of and seek help for mental health problems. Interesting.
- [06:38]
Host 1
So people are turning to social media for their help. So people are turning to, like, our podcast. I mean, like, you should, you know, listen to the podcast. It will teach you a lot that with not just us talking, but some incredible guests that we've had that will blow your mind with the things that they know and that they can teach other people. So me personally, I mean, like you said so many times, we started this podcast because it's the podcast that we wish that we had when we were first diagnosed because the help we got didn't exist. It was shite. And, you know, most of the time, like when we were speaking to Paul the other day when, you know, he was at a conference, he knows more about Tourette's than the professionals and experts know about Tourette's. So I can completely understand, you know, but at the same time, I super worry because, yeah, okay, we've got the podcast and our information is good. And I know that sounds like, you know, I'm of myself, but I'm not. I'm just factual. There is a lot of people with a huge social media following who are wrong or are giving out bad information or just making people think a certain way about a certain condition that is just surface level and they don't delve deeper into it. So I am thinking about a lot of the things that I've seen, like, reels about, oh, adhd. So funny.
- [08:17]
Host 2
Fancy shirt.
- [08:21]
Host 1
And I'm like, oh, of. It's a daily struggle. It's not funny. Yeah, it's not funny.
- [08:27]
Host 2
That's one of the things that I've had to, like, navigate with people in the real world is they'll always like, oh, adhd. It can't be that bad. I'm like my brother in Christ.
- [08:36]
Host 1
Like, no, I've literally nearly accidentally killed myself jumping off of a rock into clear blue water and missed dragged edges by millimeters. It seemed my hair brushed jagged edge because I didn't think it through like what I was doing. I nearly killed myself. I've probably nearly killed myself many, many times. I feel like I may be Homer, just like, you know, edging death because I don't make quality decisions. That's not funny.
- [09:12]
Host 2
No. So it goes into it. In this article it says social media coverage of mental health has made it more visible. Positive effects of results. It's probably reduced the stigma of mental illness and increased the use of mental health services. Does have its downsides. It can induce or exacerbate like eating disorders, can contribute to the spread of symptoms like tick behaviors, and has been attributed to the rise of questionable self diagnosis. Misinformation is common in social media discussions of mental health. One study found a majority of the most popular TikTok videos on ADHD were misleading. Inaccurate information about many other mental health conditions on social media is common.
- [09:52]
Host 1
Yeah, I don't want to say I told you so. I mean this, I'm like audience. This is, I've the first time I'm reading this article. I had no idea that that was the next section because we, we like to do these things off the cuff so we can get crazy reactions from some dude named Jordan who's potentially unhinged. I got problems. Oh my God, I'm going to read it.
- [10:15]
Host 2
Yeah. So here we go. Continues. In our Reddit study published last year, we found that as the largest ADHD and autism related communities became increasingly more prominent from 2012 to 2022, their content gradually became more similar and their users increasingly overlapped. It's almost like it's one brain. Discussions in both communities increasingly emphasize the experience of adults, challenges in accessing diagnostic assessments, and struggles with personal relationships. This growing convergence of these two conditions on Reddit illustrates how social media can reshape representations of mental health. And they've done a new study. They've analyzed 14 million posts and comments from several of the largest mental health community. I mean, who's got time? The 14 communities we studied included those related to mood, anxiety, trauma, personality disassociation and psychosis, as well as those focused on conditions often placed under the neurodivergent umbrella, such as autism, adhd, Tourette syndrome, and dyslexia. And they've investigated how the people belonging to these communities and the language they used changed. From 2015 to 2022, we explored which communities became more or less closely associated over the time, sharing more or fewer members and containing posts and comments with similar or different linguistic content. We also looked at whether these changes reflected shifts in the amount of attention the 14 conditions received. Although our analysis only covered a seven year period, it revealed a striking pattern of changes. There's a lovely diagram in this article, so I'm going to have to link it to you. It says the size of the circles represented represent the relative size of the communities, with the width of the links between them indicates how closely they were associated. In 2015, depression and anxiety were prominent mental health communities on Reddit. They were among the most active and their members and content overlapped with those of many other communities. In this sense, they were central to the Network. However, in 2022, ADHD and autism communities have become most popular and prominent, displacing depression and anxiety. Adhd, autism and other neurodivergent conditions became more closely associated with other communities and consequently more central to the network.
- [12:37]
Host 1
Yeah, I said, whoa. Because I scrolled down and looked at the, the little chart thing they've got. It kind of looks like a solar system with like planets and like the biggest planet in the first one is depression and there's like other little planets and, and ADHD autism planets and then there's even like smaller planets around them. And then the second one is literally autism and adhd and now the biggest planet, like the suns and then the depression. Yeah, literally they're like the two sons and then depression is like the biggest planet. It's like they've completely overtaken social media and what people talk about. And I think that, like I said, it, it's, it's, it's like, it's, it's good and it's bad. It's wonderful that people are talking about it more. It's wonderful that people are bringing attention to it and people are understanding it, which we talk about, like, we've talked about awareness, you know, be aware that's awareness. You know, it's out there, but it's getting the right information and hearing the right things and that's when it's hard to navigate. But it's like everything in, in the world nowadays. You know, I can be like, oh, you know, my telly's doing a weird flickering thing. How do I, how do I fix it? And there's a Reddit post for that or there's a YouTube video.
- [14:01]
Host 2
YouTube videos, man. It's like you can learn anything on YouTube now.
- [14:04]
Host 1
There is so, oh, there's a podcast on how to fix your tele. There's so much out there that I guarantee you I will be able to probably fix my own telly. You know, like, I'm just an Example it's, oh, you have to press the off button for three seconds and then press 1, 2, 5.
- [14:21]
Host 2
And one of the best things for something like that, like instructions, like when I was putting my really big barbecue together, the instruction manual was like impossible to navigate. So I just YouTubed it. I was like, oh, how does, how does somebody put this together? And it was like, here's a five step thing on how to put together your big grill. And it, it was so much easier to navigate.
- [14:41]
Host 1
But what is also crazy now and, and love it or hate it, and I'm not a big fan of it, I'll be honest, because it mostly destroys the planet, AI. It now just, just grabs all that information and tries to put it in one place via Google. It's not always right. I mean, I remember the other day I asked a question about like a shop in town that disappeared and I was like, oh, what's happened to it? And it literally said, you know, I said, oh, it's moved to a different part of Horsham. And then when you look at the article, they're linked, it said, no, it's moved to Crawley. And I went, crawley's not a different part of Horsham. These are towns. Yeah, it's, it's. So the shop no longer exists in Horsham, but there's one in Crawley which sucks because they want to go there. Yeah. But AI is not going to always get it right. But that's the thing, is that a lot of people will then take that information and from AI and then think that's correct. So now we have, not only do people have to navigate through all the different social media to try and find the correct information, to try and find the helpful or the right information, but now people are looking at AI and going, oh yeah, that's, that must be it. And you have, and you have no idea where AI has got that information from. Don't, this is the key. Don't believe everything you hear, don't believe everything you see on social media. Definitely don't always believe AI. Do your research, look into things yourself. The best way to understand neurodivergent conditions is if you're neurodivergent. Look at yourself, look at your friends, analyze it. Because that's what I did and then I got you to do it. And then that's how you've become so worldly and so knowledgeable about neurodivergence that now you're teaching others to do that the same. It's play it for, pay it forward.
- [16:47]
Host 2
I wasn't watching YouTube videos or studies. I was hanging out with people and talking to them and just learning who they are. And I think that's why Reddit works, because, like, yeah, I will sometimes ask chat GPT a question, but I'll also ask YouTube and I'll ask Reddit and I'll ask. I don't just ask one place and go, huh, the answer. I like to really source the information and then make my own mind up. And that would be the advice that I would give. But that's why I like Reddit, because it's, it's, it is literally like a chat window of a forum that could be five years old, ten, you know, whatever. And you look at the original poster and we've discussed it in episodes like the guy that we discussed about the obsession with wrestling. I found that really relatable. And I felt like I could speak a lot on it because I was like, I see you, dude. I get what, I get where you're coming from. And there wasn't any like, editorial filter through media. There wasn't anything clickbaity about it. It was, somebody went online and went, does anybody else feel like this? And people underneath were like, kind of definitely no. And you can source what other people are feeling and then think about where you feel about it, rather than just reading an article and going, oh, that's what's happening and that's how I feel about it. It's really, really helpful. But the article says, why does it matter? It says the rising prominence and centrality of ADHD and autism makes them increasingly popular explanations for mental health problems. This might promote accurate self diagnosis by people who once would not have recognized the nature of their difficulties. However, it could also lead people to misinterpret or mislabel their experiences as ADHD and autism when there's another explanation. The rising prominence of these conditions on social media may also lead people to interpret mood or anxiety symptoms as signs of ADHD or autism. Misinterpretations can lead people to pursue inappropriate diagnoses or unhelpful treatment, delaying access to the help they need. This in turn places increasing pressure on mental health services and can lead to other conditions being overlooked.
- [18:54]
Host 1
Okay, so here's my, here's my take on this misdiagnosis of oneself.
- [19:01]
Host 2
Right?
- [19:03]
Host 1
Mine is, what's the worst that can happen? Okay, so I'm not, I'm not just saying that as in I don't think anything bad can happen. I've got genuine questions. What is the worst that can happen? So if some dude thinks he, he is autistic, right? So he has all the negative impacts of being autistic. But let's say, let's say random, that he isn't autistic, right, but he has all the negative associations with being autistic. Because maybe it's trauma based or blah blah, blah, blah, whatever. What, what is bad? What's happened? What's bad? Because they say, oh, it might lead them to get in the wrong support. How? Because if you look at neurodivergence in a nutshell, the positive sides of it don't need support. The positive sides of it are that they're positive, they're, you know, special abilities. So if you've only got that negative side, so you don't have that, that synaptically pruned different brain, you don't have the alternative neurotype and that you've become somebody that appears to be autistic, then you, you need the exact same support as somebody that is diagnosed autistic. Because when they diagnose autistic, they diagnose it with the deficits, not with the positives. You don't go to the doctors and they say, oh, do you like trains? How much do you know about trains?
- [20:31]
Host 2
If you know this much about trains flying to Scotsman.
- [20:34]
Host 1
Yeah, they don't look, they don't look at the abilities that we have. There is no DSM 5 that says, oh, autistic abilities in order to diagn. It is autistic deficits. It is deficit, deficit, deficit. So if you have those deficits but you don't have the abilities that come with it, one that fucking sucks for you. Yeah, that big time sucks for you. Two sides of the coin. You got one side of the coin, the other side scratched out. You got the shit side of the coin, but you still need support in the exact same way. So what is the negative? Maybe, maybe the negative is if you appear to be ADHD or have adhd, but you don't have that different synaptic pruning, you don't have that differently wired brain, then ADHD tablets, medication, methylphenidate might actually have the opposite effect and make you more wired, which is what happens in a neurotypical brain. That's, that's, I mean, ADHD medication alone is like just proof of how freaking different our brains were.
- [21:44]
Host 2
I'll have a Red Bull do, I'll
- [21:45]
Host 1
fall, I'll fall asleep and you'll fall asleep. Exactly. So that's a really good test of I'll do out of all the things that people like, oh, I think I might be adhd. If you're listening to this, and this isn't science, this is just experience. If you really want to know or you want that extra thought of am I adhd? Drink three coffees before going to bed, right? Three shots.
- [22:12]
Host 2
Probably medically appropriate, but I know what you mean.
- [22:15]
Host 1
Hey, look, do it or don't do it. I'm just saying, not liable. I just. People just driving up the walls or just, just have a shot of, of coffee or a Red Bull or something like that an hour before you go to bed. Like see, see if it actually changes anything. Like does Red Bull give you wings or does it just make you go, huh? I feel okay.
- [22:44]
Host 2
Do you drink a monster and become one or does it tame the monster?
- [22:48]
Host 1
Yeah, because there's this idea that, you know, oh, like adhd, people would like drink a monster and they go crazy and it's like, well no, because that's, that stimulants, which is what methylphenidate is, it's literally speed, essentially, it's literally a stimulant. Actually calms down and relaxes us. It stops or at least massively reduces my meltdowns. It calms my brain.
- [23:19]
Host 2
The emotional side is the bit I never even considered, dude. It's mental in it.
- [23:23]
Host 1
Massive. It's the biggest bet. Forget about concentration levels. That is just what it is. It's the emotional side of it. And just being able to have a brain that's not constantly just going, what's this? What's this? What's this? What's this? What are you doing? What are you doing? What is this? What's this? What do you do? What about this thing? What about the thing? And it just, it does, it just calms that down. So if you drink like a shitload of coffee or shitload Red Bull and then you start feeling like more chill, that for me is a big better sign that you have actual born alternative neurotype ADHD than if you go, oh, I'm a little bit whack and I can't concentrate on things I don't like. I like honestly that I don't know. But there's. The answer is if you are out there self diagnosing, you can't take medication anyway.
- [24:20]
Host 2
I mean self diagnosis for me is valid, but you're not going to be able to get the, the legal supports.
- [24:25]
Host 1
Yeah, I did want to say one more thing about like the positives of, of this whole shift. Is that what it's showing is that our Community, you know, is growing, but it's also realizing the effects of being neurodivergent do lead to depression, do lead to anxiety, and that it's nice that, you know, if you are neurodivergent or you are, you think you're neurodivergent, that now at least we have a space that we can go to that's, you know, from your house on your little black rectangle, you can go there and feel less alone, feel less like a, a loser or, or, or, or like you're broken. You know, there's place, a place now, huge place that exists in, in the cloud that says it's not just you, we're all. Well, there's always someone that's like you. So you're not alone. But the downside is if you're not neurodivergent and you're not experiencing that and you're not seeing yourself in these posts or these videos or these TikToks, then it can be a whole Rain man effect, you know, of like, you know, your average neurotypical, you know, deep diving into something. And the algorithm will then show them more of the same thing. So rather than getting a balanced view of what autism, adhd, dyslexia, Tourette's is, they'll get the view that the algorithm has chosen for them because they watch one video on dyslexia and then after that every other video is going to be the same type of video as that one, because you liked that video. Whereas there won't be just videos about dyslexia giving you multiple versions of dyslexia and giving you multiple amounts of information. So you do end up getting, like you said, locked in. So my idea is like, okay, so if you see something in dyslexia and, and you, you know, watch a video, then like I said, do your research. Because so many people do not understand that dyslexia isn't a spelling problem. Dyslexia is a memory problem. It's a memory issue.
- [26:54]
Host 2
Yeah, for sure, man. And I, I completely agree. And I think one of the things that I found very comforting. It's sad, but it's comforting in that when I read the ADHD channel on Reddit, the amount of people that figure out the neurodivergent because of burnout and get misdiagnosed with depression and then have DBT and get, you know, antidepressants like I did. And it didn't help.
- [27:20]
Host 1
No, no, it stopped me. Anyway, anything, so you can go and get officially diagnosed and you still might end up getting the wrong help because
- [27:29]
Host 2
like I did for three years.
- [27:31]
Host 1
So yeah, it swings and roundabouts, man.
- [27:33]
Host 2
Yeah, just be careful out there. But like I say, do your research and and we will always be here listeners to give our perspective and pass on our knowledge through our experience. So I'll link the article in the show notes below. Really, really interesting study, dude. It shows that there are a lot of us out there that are talking to each other more so than we think. So yeah, that's been your hot topic for this week. We will be back on Thursday if we remember to record and we'll have a hot topic for you on the Friday as well. Take care everybody. Be kind, be safe nightly.
- [28:03]
Host 1
Bye.
- [28:07]
Host 2
Thanks for tuning in to the neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you, whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or or just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next one for more conversations and insights into the neurodivergent Experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. Just search for the neurodivergent experience. Thank you again for listening and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey.