Hot Topic: 90% of Autistic Adults Over 40 In The UK Undiagnosed

Summary

The Neurodivergent Experience

Hot Topic: 90% of Autistic Adults Over 40 in the UK Undiagnosed

Hosts: Jordan James & Simon Scott
Date: September 11, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Jordan and Simon discuss a startling new study revealing that over 90% of autistic adults over 40 in the UK remain undiagnosed. Using a recent article from The Independent and expertise from Dr. Lisa Williams, they break down why so many older adults haven’t received diagnoses, the impact of late discovery, and the key signs of autism in adulthood. The episode is filled with personal anecdotes, practical advice, and encouragement for older listeners considering a diagnosis.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Shocking Statistics (02:11–05:39)

• Recent Study Findings:

  • Researchers at King’s College London analyzed UK healthcare data and estimated:
    • Among autistic adults aged 40–59:
      • 91% of men and 79% of women are undiagnosed.
    • Overall under-diagnosis: ~89%
    • For adults over 60:
      • 96%+ of both men and women undiagnosed.
    • By contrast, younger age groups have higher diagnosis rates:
      • Ages 20–39: 52% undiagnosed
      • Under 19: 23% undiagnosed

• Impact and Reactions:

  • Jordan: "That, that is a lot of people that could potentially be getting support, you know, assistance, answers." [03:27]
  • Simon emphasizes the missed opportunities for self-understanding and community support that come with a diagnosis.

---

2. Why Are Older Adults Undiagnosed? (05:09–10:20)

• Barriers To Diagnosis:

  • Stigma, long NHS waiting lists, cost of private assessment.
  • Many feel: “I’ve come this far, why should I bother?”
  • Jordan: “I personally know quite a few people... mostly in their 30s, some in their 40s, and some even older, who are definitely neurodivergent. But they don’t even want to try and get a diagnosis.” [05:09]

• Invisibility and Masking:

  • Older generations were less likely to be diagnosed due to prevailing stereotypes and lack of awareness.
  • High masking makes signs less obvious both to themselves and others.

• Societal perceptions:

  • Many older adults internalize: “But I have a job and I’m married and I love trains. I can’t be autistic.”
  • Simon: “It’s because of the lack of information that is, you know, was in their period of growing up. And they go, ‘Oh, But I’m just quirky’...” [10:20]

---

3. The Value and Limits of Diagnosis (11:08–12:43)

• Community Belonging:

  • Jordan: “You don’t have to get a formal diagnosis to be part of this community, as we’ve discussed many times... If you believe you are neurodivergent, then I, I’m not gonna ever say you’re not.” [04:01]

• Benefits of Diagnosis:

  • Access to accommodations at work and in education.
  • Personal validation and better self-understanding.
  • Family support, e.g., for children’s school adjustments.

• Right to Choose Pathway:

  • Discussion of NHS "right to choose" with RTN Diagnostics, reducing assessment wait times (“eight weeks instead of eight years” [12:27]).
  • Simon: “...RTN will be in touch within eight weeks to begin your assessment, which eight weeks in the grand scheme of things is absolutely... a blink...” [08:40]

---

4. Seven Key Signs of Autism in Adults Over 40 (13:42–33:30)

Drawing from Dr. Lisa Williams’ article, the hosts critique and discuss each sign, relating to their own experiences.

Sign 1: Reliance on Structure and Predictability (13:59)

• Preference for routines, discomfort with sudden changes.
• Jordan: “But I mean, I like a routine... but I also. I like a bit of chaos. I like a bit of chaos in my life to keep it interesting.” [15:49]

Sign 2: Specific/“Obsessive” Interests (16:06)

• Immersive focus on particular topics.
• Hosts dislike the word “obsessive”; prefer “special interest” or “hyperfocus.”
• Jordan: “I don’t think that obsessive should be used, especially in a medical article by a medical professional. That comes across as nasty...” [17:09]

Sign 3: Sensory Sensitivities (19:29)

• Heightened reactivity to light, noise, textures, smells.
• Both refer to their own sensory experiences and recently dedicated an episode to this.

Sign 4: Struggles With Change (20:32)

• Difficulty adapting to major life changes (moving, jobs, technology).
• Discussion about Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) and the importance of not letting diagnoses become a self-fulfilling barrier.
• Jordan: “If you say I can’t, then you might as well say, I never can.” [22:00]

Sign 5: Difficulty With Social Rules (25:03)

• Challenges with eye contact, small talk, body language, and “unwritten rules.”
• Critique of language used in media (“people with autism” vs. “autistic people”).
• Jordan: “Lives with. It’s not an auntie that’s staying over for the weekend, for crying out loud.” [25:57]

Sign 6: Struggles in Romantic Relationships (28:03)

• Difficulty expressing affection, discomfort with physical intimacy, preference for independence.
• Jordan notes these struggles are common to all humans, though autistic people may experience some unique patterns, especially around communication and intimacy.

Sign 7: Workplace Integration Challenges (31:21)

• Success in specific roles/tasks, but difficulty with change, office politics, group settings.
• Both hosts argue this overlaps with other points and propose adding signs like stimming or craving personal space as equally important indicators.

---

5. Supplemental Signs & Personal Touches (29:17–35:53)

• Other Notable Signs:

  • Stimming (repetitive movements for comfort)
  • Preferring familiar comforts (re-watching shows, wearing same clothes)
  • Discomfort with unexpected touch or lack of personal space

• Aging and “Masking”:

  • As people age, their mask becomes their identity, making self-recognition harder.
  • Jordan: “I would say that these are just signs of autism in general. I think it becomes harder to spot it in yourself...once you get into your 40s and 50s and 60s and so on, because I think we end up becoming our mask.” [33:30]

---

6. Empowerment, Identity & Final Thoughts (34:50–37:58)

• Never Too Old to Discover Yourself:

  • Simon: “At any point in your life...I would like to think at 62 years old...I would be able to make changes for my own happiness and my own sense of identity and security.” [34:50]
  • Jordan: “How I look at it is, you ain’t dead yet... why not try and get a better quality of life for however long you have left.” [34:53]

• Validation from the Community:

  • Listener feedback: 70-year-old listener expresses gratitude for the podcast inspiring her to pursue a diagnosis.
    • Jordan: “...if it wasn’t for us...she would never have had the confidence to go through with it, and she felt seen because of us.” [37:21]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Masking and Late Diagnosis:

  • “I think that we end up becoming our mask. So especially women...” — Jordan [33:30]

• On the Power of Self-Knowledge:

  • "Having those answers is such a, such a blessing. It really is." — Simon [36:46]

• On Community Belonging:

  • "If you believe you are neurodivergent, then I, I'm not gonna ever say you're not. And no one else should say that you're not." — Jordan [04:01]

• Humorous Take on Workplace Struggles:

  • "Do you hate your job and everybody there? Do you hate the fluorescent lights and the food and the canteen and how Dave laughs at his own jokes? Maybe you're autistic." — Simon [32:20]

---

Important Timestamps

• [02:11] — Unpacking the new study’s key findings
• [05:09] — Barriers to diagnosis and the cost/time dilemma
• [10:20] — Societal blindspots; the “missing generation” of undiagnosed autistics
• [13:42] — Introduction of the seven key signs of adult autism
• [14:49–33:30] — Deep dive into each sign, with critiques and personal stories
• [34:50–35:53] — On aging, the masking effect, and encouragement for late diagnosis
• [37:21] — Listener testimonial: diagnosis at 70 inspired by the podcast

---

Final Message

Jordan and Simon urge listeners—of any age—that it is never too late to seek understanding and support. While diagnosis is a personal journey, the community and resources are available now more than ever. They highlight their partnership with RTN Diagnostics to make assessment more accessible in the UK, reinforcing their mission to empower neurodivergent adults of all ages.

---

Connect with The Neurodivergent Experience:

• Instagram: @theneurodivergentexperiencepod
• Facebook: The Neurodivergent Experience
• YouTube: @TheNeurodivergentExperience

---

“Because Neurodivergent Voices Deserve to Be Heard.”

Transcript

[Amazing]

Only Boost Mobile. Boost Mobile will give you a free year of service. Free year when you buy a new 5G phone.

[Jordan]

New 5G phone? Enough.

[Amazing]

But I'm your hype man. When you purchase an eligible device, you get $25 off every month for 12 months with credits totaling one year of free service. Taxes extra for the device and service plan online only. Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Naomi Ekparigan]

Hey, everybody, I'm Naomi Ekparigan.

[Andy Beckerman]

And I'm Andy Beckerman.

[Naomi Ekparigan]

We're a real life couple and a real life couple of comedians. And we're the hosts of the PODC Couples Therapy.

[Andy Beckerman]

We're the only comedy relationship podcast ever. Yeah, I said it. And we're so good. We've been written up in both the New York Times and we made Grindr's list of top podcasts.

[Naomi Ekparigan]

Yes, we're giving you that high, low appeal trust. On the show, we talk to guests like Bob the Drag Queen, Angelica Ross.

[Andy Beckerman]

Bowen Yang, Janelle James, Danny Pudi, Darcy Carden, Paul F. Tompkins, and more.

[Naomi Ekparigan]

All about love, mental health and everything in between. And we answer your relationship questions. We are two unlicensed comedians just trying to help you out.

[Andy Beckerman]

So open your hearts, loosen your butts, because we got a lot of laughs.

[Naomi Ekparigan]

And a lot of real talk just for you.

[Andy Beckerman]

Download couples therapy. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amazing]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com oh, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot.

[Jordan]

Hello and welcome to the Neurospicy News.

[Amazing]

Feeling was hot and the flames weren't high. I need to get more hot songs in my repertoire to sort of sing at the beginning. But yes, news.

[Jordan]

Spicy news is the spicy news today.

[Amazing]

Oh, the seven key signs of autism in adults age 40 and over. And apparently over 90% of people over 40 with autism, or I should say are autistic. The independent are undiagnosed. That's a lot of people.

[Jordan]

And the article came out on the 2nd of September, so that's hot off the press.

[Amazing]

Oh, straight. It's still. Oh, it's still warm. I can. Oh, feel the ink.

[Jordan]

Yeah, it's like. It's like a. It's like morning bread at the bakery.

[Amazing]

O smell it, take it in. So apparently, Jordan, yes, most autistic people over the age of 40 in the UK are living without an official diagnosis, according to new research. Researchers at the Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology and Neuroscience at King's College London reanalyzed research on UK healthcare data from 2018 and estimated that among autistic adults aged 40 to 59, 91.45% of men and 79.48% of women have not received a formal diagnosis.

[Jordan]

That's a lot.

[Amazing]

It's a lot of, lot of people. This adds up to an overall under diagnosis rate of 89.29%.

[Jordan]

Crazy. That's basically, basically everybody. Nine out of ten autistic people are not getting diagnosed. That, that is a lot of people that could potentially be getting support, you know, assistance, answers.

[Amazing]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

A chance to understand themselves. A chance to be part of, part of the community officially, by the way, even though you don't have to get a formal diagnosis to be part of this community, as we've discussed many times.

[Amazing]

Absolutely.

[Jordan]

If, if you believe you are neurodivergent, then I, I'm not gonna ever say you're not. And no one else should say that you're not. You know, I think we know ourselves well enough and we know about, enough about neurodivergence to be able to see it within ourselves, because it's not a medical issue. It comes with medical issues, as I'm experiencing at the moment with my hypermobility and my EDs screwing up my back. But being neurodivergent itself, being the alternative neurotype, that is not a medical thing. It is just a different part of humanity. But getting a diagnosis, as you know, we've said this before, it really helped me and helped you being able to be officially diagnosed and also help my, my wife and kids get accommodations, help my kids get extra time doing exams and stuff. But also it's helped me in work get accommodations officially.

[Amazing]

Oh, yeah.

[Jordan]

And I, I personally know quite a few people, mostly in their 30s, some in their 40s, and some even older, who are definitely neurodivergent. But they, they don't even want to try and get a diagnosis. Not only because the list is so long, but also if they try to go private, they, they wouldn't be able to afford it. And also they. So many people like, well, I've come this far, why should I bother?

[Amazing]

And it's like, frustrates me so much when people say that because I'm like, yeah, but you found out that you had an extra hand behind your back. Wouldn't you want to use it?

[Jordan]

Like, high five your back?

[Amazing]

Yeah. I'm like, oh, you've had one hand tied behind your back your entire life and you found out you've now got another one. Would you like to use it? You just Couldn't just leave it where it is be. Right. But yeah, and I'll continue with the article. The study, which was published in the Annual Review of Developmental Psychology, also found that this number increased even in older age groups. It found that 96.29% of men and 97.19% of women that are autistic over 60 are thought to be undiagnosed, an overall rate of 96.51%. In contrast, the estimated that the rate of undiagnosed autistics for 20 to 20 to 39 year olds is 52.54% and 23.34% for those under the age of 19.

[Jordan]

See, I fell into the bracket because I was diagnosed at about 36, 37, so I fall into the bracket of, of that, of that 52%, which, which is still really bad, but given the climate that we're in at the moment, especially when it comes to diagnosis, which is why it's so fantastic. Let me say this again, it's so fantastic that we have just released a new ad and we've got a new partnership with, with RTN because they've now moved, as well as doing private, they are now doing right to choose. They, they have done thousands across the whole of England. They have done thousands of assessments through, through, you know, from the NHS that have been passed over to them. And you can go now, you, audience can, can go and follow the link that is in our, in our episode from yesterday. We'll stick one on here as well.

[Amazing]

Yeah, cool.

[Jordan]

Nice one. It's, it's, it's free. It's free. I mean, the NHS is never free, people pay for it, but it's free for you to use the NHS and you can go and get a private diagnosis through the NHS with rtn. And it's, it's just wonderful. There is now thousands of people who RTN are helping who would never have got a diagnosis because they'd still be on that list now. And it's a wonderful thing. So we have now partnered with RTN in order to promote the right to choose, in order to help our audience members and help even more people have that option of being able to fill the forms in, which again are linked to this podcast. You better fill all the forms in and you can go and get the help that you deserve by getting the answers that you deserve.

[Amazing]

Yeah, absolutely. And just to reiterate as well, the right to choose through rtn, if your, you know, consultant led autism or ADHD assessment is more than 18 weeks, wait you can go choose RTN. All you've got to do is download the GP referral letter and the questionnaire from the link in the show notes, which you'll find if you scroll down on our episode. Wherever you're listening, take those to your gp, ask for a referral to RTN diagnostics. If approved, RTN will be in touch within eight weeks to begin your assessment, which eight weeks in the grand scheme of things is absolutely. It's a blink, it's absolutely nothing. I had to wait, like, I think it was six months even for a private one when I had mine a couple of years ago. So that's why we've partnered with them, because we think that amazing to work with. They've done all of your family, they're the best.

[Jordan]

Yeah, man, I, I trust them so much. You know, I've been working with them for a long time now. My whole family have been working with them and, and we've all been, you know, assessed by them with one thing or another and they're, they're just fantastic. But yeah, going, going back to the article, um, it's, it is tragic because like I said, so many, the older people get, the less they want to go through that process, the more they think that it's like, what is the point? You know, I've come this far. I think that's the key thing. And also I think a lot of people who are that age, they're just so high masking that they, they, they don't even realize it. So it's a lot of other people that are like, yeah, I think maybe you might be autistic. And they're just like, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. No, I'm not.

[Amazing]

I found as well with this sort of missing generation because this is some of the, like, reading that I've heard, well, read and seen or heard about it now. And I know for a fact a lot of people that listen to this show are over the age of 40, some even in the 50s and 60s. Hello, if that's you. And I get messages all the time from people that go, I got diagnosed at 55, I got diagnosed at 58. I finally feel like I have some answers. And I still think that there are a lot of people from this sort of generation that go, but I have a job and I'm married and I love trains. I can't be autistic. And it's because of the lack of information that is, you know, was in their period of growing up. And they go, oh, But I'm just quirky and, you know, that's where people seem to fall, I think.

[Jordan]

Well, that's why this, this podcast is going to help a lot of those people. And it's like we talked about advocacy the other week, is that, you know, that's what we're here for. We're here to help people understand that, you know, you don't have to be, you know, the kids sitting in the corner rocking in order to get a diagnosis. You can, you can be like us. You know, we, we live life. We have jobs, we have partners, we pay mortgage, we pay tax, we go.

[Amazing]

To concerts, we go to football matches. We.

[Jordan]

Yeah, we're going to go see the Chelsea vs Liverpool legends next month, which is really, really cool. Yeah. So, you know, like us, we have lives. You can and you and we and you autistic. So it's, it's, to me, it's advantageous to follow that up, but it isn't for everyone. So you don't have to. You don't have to. But, but I believe that it's your right to be able to. So if you want to. That's why the right to choose is such a great option, because it gives people that option to be able to do it now rather than, what was it, eight years?

[Amazing]

Eight weeks.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Eight weeks with rtn, eight years with the nhs.

[Amazing]

Yes. Quick maths for me.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Amazing]

But even the article goes on and says autism assessments can be the first step to understand people's needs. And a diagnosis can be life changing and in some cases, life saving.

[Jordan]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's, it's a really wonderful article and it's really interesting. It's, it's harrowing because you do. Because my heart, and I know your heart goes out to all those people that are just sort of living in limbo almost, you know, but, but here we are. So if you're listening with this article, I mean, I. Look, we don't know how accurate these are, which is why this is actually the first time we're reading through them, so we can react to them. So we're in the same boat as you audience members, as in, we don't know how good these are. And, and I, as a specialist, and Scotty, as, as far as I'm concerned, becoming a specialist, we will use our insight and knowledge to maybe adjust some of these, but who knows, maybe they're perfect. So do you want to. Do you want to start with the first one? Scotty weighs. How Many is it?

[Amazing]

7.

[Jordan]

To be fair, that's all you need. I might add. I might add some at the end of this.

[Amazing]

We've narrowed it down.

[Jordan]

Yeah. So seven ways to see if you're autistic in your 40s.

[Amazing]

Yes, the seven key signs of autism in adults. So the article says. So this comes from Dr. Lisa Williams, clinical psychologist and founder of the Autism Service. They have shared seven subtle signs of autism that go unnoticed in adults over the age of 41. Resilience on structure and predictability. Older autistic adults who have remained undiagnosed for much of their life often fall into a set routine, which can make them feel more comfortable and in control. Reliance on this can become more noticeable with age as unexpected changes and disruptions to this routine can trigger stress and anxiety. Signs of a resilience en route. Sign there. Put my teeth in again. Signs of a reliance on routine can include extensive planning ahead, sticking to daily habits, and feeling unsettled by spontaneous or sudden changes in plans.

[Jordan]

See, I. I absolutely agree with this from the perspective of if I. If I wasn't diagnosed and I didn't have the knowledge and myself and how autism affects me personally, because that's always the most important thing is. Is it's not, oh, I'm autistic is how. How are you autistic? You know, how does it impact your life for the positive and negative? But this is definitely me before I understood how change massively affects me. And the thing that I personally put in place was having options, so reducing my expectations and. And having more options. But I mean, I like a routine as far as when. When I really have to concentrate. But I also. I like a bit of chaos. I like a bit of chaos in my life to keep it interesting. Man.

[Amazing]

Yeah, I love chaos with a deadline. That's what I like.

[Jordan]

I love chaos that I can control.

[Amazing]

Yeah, I have. I like that I'm given a specific window for chaos, but I have a certain amount of time to do it in. Yeah, that's sort of where I thrive.

[Jordan]

Yeah, that's a good one. I like it. I like that one.

[Amazing]

Number two, you get a tick from me having specific or obsessive interests. I don't like the word obsessive, but anyway, it's not uncommon for anyone with autism to develop deep interests in particular subjects or hobbies. But this can be especially the case for older adults. This can appear to be a lifelong passion, but if it dominates their free time and tends to be something they talk about almost obsessively, it can be a sign that this person falls somewhere on the spectrum.

[Jordan]

In the spectrum.

[Amazing]

Yeah. Again, I don't like obsessive.

[Jordan]

I'm okay with obsessive if I'm talking about myself, but I don't think that you should put that label on others because I. I think that they should be able to speak about themselves. This is what always annoys me.

[Amazing]

That's a good point.

[Jordan]

People speaking about autistic people rather than speaking about ourselves. And I think the word obsessive sounds.

[Amazing]

So negative because I'm obsessed with music, but if somebody told me I was obsessed with music, I'd be like, it sounds rude. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jordan]

I definitely. And I. Yeah. So I don't think that obsessive should be used, especially in a medical article by a medical professional. They shouldn't use the word obsessive. That. That comes across as nasty, you know, and it's. Yeah, it's so negative. It's like, well, a lot of our hyper fixations are temporary. That's why they're hyper fixations. But a lot of our hyper focuses, a lot of our special interests can be incredibly wonderful. And I mean, just look at my photography, how much that has helped me, how much that has helped others. I mean, I wouldn't be here talking to you if I hadn't posted that picture, if I hadn't been obsessed with photography.

[Amazing]

And we won't be doing a podcast if I wasn't obsessed with audio and podcasts.

[Jordan]

Exactly. So, you know, we can call them obsessions. That's up to us. But I don't believe that others should be able to call them obsessions. But it is definitely a sign of being autistic. It is one of the major ones as far as I'm concerned. It's definitely one that I look out for when I'm speaking to people and they say, oh, yeah, I really, really like this one thing. And then they just talk about this one thing. I mean, I noticed very much with the guy at my work just Star wars, but he knows a lot about science fiction in general. But then he really fixates you back to Star Wars. It's so, so specific. You know, he's interested in lots of things, but then it was like. But more so with the Star wars. And yeah, the guy's 100% autistic, but again, he's in his late 30s, undiagnosed. So once he turns 40, he's going to be in this bracket of undiagnosed because he says he. He doesn't feel like he needs to go through it because he understands that he is. He accepts that he is. I mean, it's obviously very helpful because he literally works with me and asks me many questions, and I can help him through it.

[Amazing]

Well, he's gonna get more info from Amazing than anyone else. Yeah, than anyone else.

[Jordan]

But not everyone has me sitting next to them, so.

[Amazing]

Unless you're a subscriber of this pod.

[Jordan]

Exactly. Yeah. Then I'm basically in your house and I'm talking to you right now.

[Amazing]

Let me in.

[Jordan]

Yeah, don't let him in. He's creepy.

[Amazing]

Normally, he's obsessive. Number three, Sensory sensitivities. Heightened sensitivity to key sensor sources. Sensor sources? What are they? Sensory sources. Not dyslexic like light, noise, smell, and textures can persist into later years for autistic adults. Noticeable discomfort in crowded and loud environments or with particular fabrics might indicate sensory processing differences typical of autistics.

[Jordan]

Yeah, absolutely. We. We literally did our whole episode yesterday on sensory issues and how they can be positive and negative. Again, it just sounds negative, but at the end of the day, you know, we're trying to get people to understand they're autistic and, you know, it's a.

[Amazing]

Journey, and labels are the enemy. And I mean, labels in the back of your T shirt. Not.

[Jordan]

Yes. Sensory labels, not autism labels.

[Amazing]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jordan]

But, yeah, no, that's. That's definitely a good one.

[Amazing]

I'm.

[Jordan]

And I can't. I can't argue with that at all. So number, number four.

[Amazing]

Numbers. Numbers and numbers. Struggles with change. Change can be especially challenging for older adults who may have undiagnosed autism. Moving house, which is a sensory hell. Starting a new job or adapting to new technology can draw out natural anxieties about a lack of predictability and familiarity. Consistent signs of this can be a hallmark of the tism.

[Jordan]

Okay, so a lot of this does sound like pda.

[Amazing]

Yes.

[Jordan]

That, like. I mean, PDA can be caused by many things for me personally, and one of those things is anxiety and unfamiliarity, is the fact that so many tasks, so many things that I do, they. They just. They feel. I mean, one, they are more difficult because just life in general is more difficult for me, but they also. I end up making this mountain out of a molehill in my head, and everything seems to feel a million times harder. Even. Even if it is harder, it seems to be even harder, but it doesn't stop me from doing things. And I think this is really, really important because I do talk to a lot of autistic people that go, I can't do that because my PDA and I'm like, I'm not here to tell you what you can't do, but I'm telling you, you can do that. It's just harder. But that's. That's up to everybody. But if you say I can't, then you might as well say, I never can.

[Amazing]

Yeah, and I agree with that because I. I have that energy of. I was like, oh, I'm autistic now. I can't do any of this. And I could do it before I was diagnosed.

[Jordan]

You become your own worst enemy, and it's like you have no one else to blame but yourself. If you can't push yourself over that hump. If others refuse to help you, which is tragic, if others refuse to help you, or others start pandering to you and start Molly coddling you or your Molly coddling your kids or whatever's happening, you've got to understand, this is the real world. The real world will not pander to you. It will not molecule to you. So you need to prepare yourself or your loved ones for the real world. That doesn't mean you push them. That doesn't mean you aba them. That doesn't mean you, you know, punish them. That doesn't mean any of those things. It just means that you can't just turn around and go, I can never do that because of this. It's like, you can. And I'll always think this because, okay, this is all disabilities. Pda, anxiety. These are disabilities. But I remember when I was younger, I watched a video of a really inspiring guy who was born with no arms and no legs, but he could swim.

[Amazing]

Oh, yeah, I remember that.

[Jordan]

And I will never, ever not look, think about this guy, because the fact is, he was the whole his life, he was an inspiration. He would go and talk to kids and show how disabled people can. Can do things. Now, not every disabled person can do everything that they want to do, but it doesn't mean you can't try. It doesn't mean you can't push yourself. When I see a man with no arms and no legs swim, I'm like, I can at least try and do everything that I can possibly do. So, yeah, we do struggle with change. This is definitely, definitely one. And if you're out there and you have these anxieties and you feel like everything is harder, then, yeah, you. You might be autistic.

[Amazing]

Absolutely. And another thing I was thinking of, just to add to that, mate, what you were talking about is when I told myself I couldn't do things, it was like having mental Atrophy, you know, like when you have an injury and your muscles shrink. That's what my brain did. It felt like my world shrank and I was like, oh, I can't do that anymore. I can. I just need to learn how to do it again, was the thing. So, number five, difficulty in understanding social rules, unwritten social norms such as eye contact, small talk, respect for personal space, body language and understanding subtle humor are just a few examples. Can be more difficult to understand for older adults with autism. People with autism or autistic people, it should say, often think differently from neurotypical people and can interpret things much more literally or struggle to pick up on these subtle social cues. This may result in feeling out of step in social settings or needing extra time to process interactions. And even with years of life experience, I'm loving these.

[Jordan]

I mean, except for the fact that. Except for the fact that, you know, the community has asked a million times to say autistic and not with autism.

[Amazing]

It knows me that it says neurotypical people and then people with autism.

[Jordan]

Yes. Because if you, if you are autistic and you prefer saying I have autism, then that is your choice. And I would never in a million years try and tell you how you should identify. But we have asked the media as a community so many times to not do that. And it's that same thing of saying, they say obsessed, which they shouldn't. They shouldn't say obsessed. They shouldn't say suffer. They shouldn't say lives with. Because that shit pisses me off. Lives with. It's not an auntie that's staying over for the weekend, for crying out loud.

[Amazing]

Yeah, do you know what? If they're not going to. Rather than saying people with autism often think differently from neurotypical people, it should be neurodivergent. People often think differently from neurotypical people. If you're going to say people with autism often think differently, don't say neurotypicals, just say people without autism. Because if you're going to use half a label in one and then not use it, right, Just, Just commit. But yeah, that's the thing that frustrates me is like as a culture, we've got our terminology, we've got our labels, we know what they are, and yet the people that are doing studies about us don't. That's. That's frustrating.

[Jordan]

When it comes to race, when it comes to gender, when it comes to say, I will go out of my way to understand and, and do my best to make those people from those minorities you know, respected.

[Amazing]

Absolutely.

[Jordan]

Response. And I will always ask, how would you like to be identified? How would you know? How can I make you feel comfortable? This, as soon as it comes to autism, soon as it comes to neurodivergence in general, very few people that give a shit what we think.

[Amazing]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

They go, well, this, we've told you this. And then that's it. So that, that, that obviously does try to be condescending.

[Amazing]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Jordan]

At the end of the day, this, this is helpful. And that is definitely one of those things. Difficult in understanding social rules. Hell yeah. I mean, it's like I. Again, it, it's basically even when we build a mask, even though, you know, we, we try and fit in for years and years, obviously I did not know that I was autistic at all, but I knew that I did not fit in no matter what.

[Amazing]

Oh, yeah. I knew there was something going on. I just didn't know what it was called.

[Jordan]

So, yeah, if you do feel like you're on the outside looking in or you're a Lego brick in the Duplo world, if you do feel like that, being autistic could be the answer. So, you know, look into it.

[Amazing]

Absolutely.

[Jordan]

Number six.

[Amazing]

Struggles in romantic relationships. Adults with autism may experience challenges in forming or maintaining romantic relationships. This can include difficulty expressing or interpreting affection, discomfort with physical intimacy, or preferring independence over cohabitation. They often thrive in relationships with partners who are understanding of their needs, communicate openly, and are willing to adapt to their preferred ways of connecting.

[Jordan]

I can't disagree with that, but it does sound like a.

[Amazing]

It's harsh in it a little bit.

[Jordan]

I would just like to say I think everyone struggles with relationships. I think that humans struggle romantically.

[Amazing]

Dating's really hard.

[Jordan]

But yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that. If you struggle romantically, you are, you are possibly autistic. But the way that they have said that you may struggle romantically does. Is valid, I guess, for some people. I don't know if I would put it in my list. I, I would definitely have stimming here.

[Amazing]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Jordan]

If, if you have ticks or you get comfort from squeezing your hands or movement, if you find that, you know, certain movements or certain. Or touching things, getting certain sensations, if that you find that that calms you, I would say that that's definitely a sign that you possibly neurodivergent. For sure. Yeah. I would also say that if you find yourself going back to things that make you more comfortable, like rewatching TV shows, re watching movies, listening to Wearing the songs T shirt over and over again. Yeah, we. Same clothes. Not liking, you know, different textures of new clothes and things like that. Obviously they've done the sensory thing, but I think more specifically, I think, yeah, absolutely. If. If you find yourself wanting to do the same thing over and over again, yet, that could be a routine, but it's more. It's. It's more specific than that, than just, oh, you like routine in general? Because a lot of. A lot of people might think routine is, oh, you know, I get up, I clean my teeth, I have breakfast, I have my coffee. Like, everybody has routine. But neurodivergent routine is more about finding comfort and control of your environment. Because most of the time we feel so out of control that we have no control. So we crave control. We crave being in control of. Of anything that we can grab our hands onto. And it can be detrimental to our relationships, detrimental to our friendships, detrimental to our work because we are so desperate to not feel out of control.

[Amazing]

Mm, yeah, absolutely.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Number seven and the last one.

[Amazing]

Integrating difficulties in the workplace. While many autistic adults excel in specific roles or tasks, they may struggle with aspects of workplace integration, such as adapting to frequent changes, navigating office politics, or participating in group meetings that feel overwhelming. However, supportive managers who provide reasonable adjustments, like clear communication or flexibility in work routines can help them succeed if they exist. Without this understanding, autistic employees may face unnecessary stress, conflict, or even unfair disciplinary action. Well, that was a bit personal.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I mean, the first part of that basically is just repeating. Yeah. Stuff from. From the previous. So I don't feel like seven really counts.

[Amazing]

Yeah, it's kind of. This is a bit like relationships, and you need routine and you struggle with change in sensory sensitivities. All of those things make work hard.

[Jordan]

Yeah, basically.

[Amazing]

Basically. It's basically like, do you hate your job and everybody there? Do you hate the fluorescent lights and the food and the canteen and how Dave laughs at his own jokes? Maybe you're autistic.

[Jordan]

I would say that. That another sign is struggling with. With being touched, being around too many people.

[Amazing]

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I hate having my face touched.

[Jordan]

Yeah. So be being touched unexpectedly as well. You know, like. Like we've said before, like on a train or something, someone brushes past somebody.

[Amazing]

Like, slaps you on the back, like, you're doing a great job. Like, get off me.

[Jordan]

Just like we. We as in me and you and. And definitely the people. I know we crave personal space. So if you're somebody that craves personal space, that can be another sign as far as I'm concerned. But it's interesting because, you know, I, I mean, I don't see how these are signs of autism in people over 40. I would say that these are just signs of autism in general.

[Amazing]

Just, just in general.

[Jordan]

As soon as you're an adult. Well, I mean, yeah, as soon as you're. Because obviously you've got romantic stuff here as well, but as soon as you're an adult. I would say that these, these would suit anyone who's, who's an adult, but I think it becomes harder to spot it in yourself or at least admit it to yourself once you get into your 40s and 50s and 60s and so on, because I think that we end up becoming our mask. So especially women and it's that whole.

[Amazing]

Thing of like, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. And as what you were saying as well, I think about the women in my life and it, I mean, my, all of my grandparents are neurodivergent. I look at it now and it's, it's so obvious, it's almost laughable how I never picked up on it. And every time, like I ever think about having these sorts of conversations with that generation in my family, my mum just goes, oh, they're too old, they won't change, they can't think differently. And I agree, but also disagree. But agree, but also disagree. And you know, I don't think at any point in your life, I know I'm only 31 years old, but I would like to think at 62 years old if, you know, I would be able to make changes for my own happiness and my own sense of identity and security and, you know, I don't think that would, I would want that to change.

[Jordan]

How I look at it is, you ain't dead yet.

[Amazing]

Oh, I ain't in the ground yet. I ain't dead yet.

[Jordan]

If you ain't dead, then why not try and get a better quality of life for however long you have left, Even if, whether it's 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, four years, whatever it.

[Amazing]

Is now we're living to a God long.

[Jordan]

Yeah, the longer we live, the longer we live, especially in the Western world, my friends, you know, science is on our side, as it were. And I just think that if you turn around and especially if you're only in your 40s or 50s, and you turn around and go, well, I've made it this far, you're doing yourself an injustice. You know, I think that, you know, like I said, you don't need, no one needs a piece of paper. But it, absolutely, there are so many benefits. But also why not that, that, that's my answer to well, I don't need it. And they go, well, if you don't need it, then why not just go and get it anyway? Because there's nothing, there's nothing negative to having it.

[Amazing]

Do you know what? You've hit the nail on the head there. That is the one thing that I've never understood about that sort of answer. Where they go, well, I've got this far, I don't need it. And I go, well, if it's not a life or death thing, if it's not gonna, you know, if it's not a lose lose, if, if it's, if it's a win lose or a win win, whatever, if you don't think there's really going to be any repercussions, then what is the harm in having it? It's like people go to all sorts of people with crystal balls and go, tell me my future. I tell you what, if you, you have a diagnosis and you know who you are, you're moving into the future with a lot more answers about yourself. You can start self advocating and rectified some of the mistakes you're making. You go, why do I feel crappy about this or myself or whatever? And it's because you don't know who you are yet. It doesn't matter if you're 5 years old, 55, 85. Having those answers is such a, such a blessing. It really is.

[Jordan]

So thank you very much for listening. I think that was, that was a good one. We will attach. Will we? Will we, Scotty? We. Yeah, I don't do anything. I'm useless, you know.

[Amazing]

Now it'll be there. Don't worry guys. It'll be in the description below. If you're already listening to this, it's already there, so don't worry. But I'm interested. I know I get so many messages. I know you do as well, Jordan. Way more than I do about people later in life that are coming to, you know, understanding themselves. Whether that's through finding this show or a little bit of information or even just somebody pointing it out to you in an unknown situation.

[Jordan]

I got one from a 70 year old who had just been diagnosed and she said, I love that she said thank you so much because if it wasn't for, for us, you know, talking about our experiences, she would never have had the confidence to, to go through with it. And, and, and she felt seen because, because of us. So.

[Amazing]

And that's why we do it in it.

[Jordan]

That's why we do it.

[Amazing]

So I love that. Good things, good things, good things happen. So thank you so much for listening, everybody. We will be back on Thursday with another episode. By the time this one comes out, Jordan Ashley's show will have started on a Monday. How excited?

[Jordan]

It was amazing. I enjoyed it thoroughly.

[Amazing]

Yeah, it was brilliant. I was so, so glad to, to listen to it. I can't wait to listen to the other one. So that's every Monday, Mindful Mondays with Ashley Bentley. Brilliant show. That's now in your feed. So go and check it out. And as always, everybody, you wonderful lot, take care of yourself. Be kind to yourself. Stay safe out there. Lots of love nightly.

[Jordan]

Bye.

[Amazing]

Thanks for tuning in to the Neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you. Whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next one for more conversations and insights into the Neurodivergent Experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these comments conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, tick tock. Just search for the neurodivergent Experience. Thank you again for listening and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey. Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Naomi Ekparigan]

Hey, everybody, I'm Naomi Ekparagan.

[Andy Beckerman]

And I'm Andy Beckerman.

[Naomi Ekparigan]

We're a real life couple and a real life couple of comedians. And we're the hosts of the podcast Couples Therapy.

[Andy Beckerman]

We're the only comedy relationship podcast ever. Yeah, I said it. And we're so good. We've been written up in both the New York Times and we made Grindr's list of top podcasts.

[Naomi Ekparigan]

Yes, we're giving you that high, low appeal trust on the show. We talk to guests like Bob the.

[Andy Beckerman]

Drag Queen, Angelica Ross Bowen Yang, Janelle James, Danny Pudi, Darcy Cardin, Paul F. Tompkins and more.

[Naomi Ekparigan]

All about love, mental health and everything in between. And we answer your relationship questions. We are two unlicensed comedians just trying to help you out.

[Andy Beckerman]

So open your hearts, loosen your butts, because we got a lot of laughs.

[Naomi Ekparigan]

And a lot of real talk just for you.

[Andy Beckerman]

Download Couples Therapy wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amazing]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.