← The Neurodivergent Experience
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- [00:02]
Host 1
The Autistic Culture podcast network. The sound of Autistic Culture.
- [00:11]
AWS AI Advertiser
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- [00:41]
Pablo Torre
Hey, this is Pablo Torre from Pablo Torre finds out. And today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile. In sports, there's always pressure to chase the next big thing. But sometimes the smartest play is sticking with what's already working for you. Boost Mobile gets that if your phone is running fine, you should not have to buy a new one just to get a better deal. Bring your phone to Boost Mobile and get unlimited wireless for just $25 a month. Forever. No contracts, no price hikes. Visit Boost Mobile, unlock your phone. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on the Boost Mobile unlimited plan.
- [01:16]
Host 1
Oh, hot, hot, hot, hot, Hot topic. Hello and welcome to the Neuro Spicy news.
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Host 2
Hot topic, your super hot, super spicy news. In your feed on a Friday long Covid directly counters the effectiveness of ADHD medication. Question mark.
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Host 1
Mind blown.
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Host 2
Oh, dear, oh dear. So, dude, tell me how you came across this rather interesting but alarming information
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Host 1
as I have come across most of the things I know in my life by watching cartoons.
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Host 2
Ah, yes, of course.
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Host 1
I have learned more from south park and possibly Simpsons than most adult things. Those are adult things. What am I saying? How dare you, bastard.
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Host 2
I know what you mean.
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Host 1
But this one was from Rick and Morty.
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Host 2
Oh, okay, cool.
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Host 1
So, yeah, in. In the latest series, Rick and Morty, during a conversation, somebody. It's Beth. Beth, the daughter. She says something and everyone's looking at her like, you know, what are you talking about? And. And she. She doesn't understand why. Why she's not understanding something. And relatable. Yep. And I'm looking at a guy and, oh, that sounds like Beth, you know, might have adhd. And she said, do I have long Covid As a question to herself. And I went, wait a minute, what's long Covid got to do with you acting like you have adhd? And then I was like, can long Covid? Cause ADHD Symptoms, because that's pretty much what it sounded like the program was saying. I have not heard of this. I don't know anything about long covert. I'll be honest. It's not something that I've ever really thought about, you know, but it made me research, and I found out that it absolutely is a symptom of long Covid to have brain fog. And that counters the medication, but it also can cause ADHD symptoms. There might be a lot of people out there with adhd, like symptoms who don't have adhd. What they have is long Covid. And we've also recently found out that people actually diagnosed with long Covid and brain fog are getting methylphenidate prescribed to them to treat that, not adhd.
- [04:19]
Host 2
I'm pulling a face, everybody going, it's whore.
- [04:22]
Host 1
It's. It is absolutely blown up. I did not even know this was a thing. So while we're out there, during that struggle of getting hold of methylphenidate, there were people being prescribed. I don't know if it was that during that time, but there are people being prescribed methylphenidate who aren't adhd. But that does. I'm not saying they don't deserve it. They absolutely need it. Long Covid is a very real thing, and everybody deserves to be helped by it. But if you look about how many people need help with adhd, and then we're adding long Covid to that, but at the same time, the ADHD people who have had long Covid, it's like the opposite reaction where the methylphenidate has stopped working on them.
- [05:11]
Host 2
Oh, my.
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Pablo Torre
It's.
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Host 1
It's. It's crazy. I didn't know any of this.
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Host 2
That. That is nuts. So you sent me this article that's like, long Covid brain fog. What is it? And it says brain fog is one of the most debilitating problems experienced by people with long Covid, a condition in which COVID 19, like symptom continue or develop after the acute infection has passed. An estimated 7% of adults, or about 17 million people in the United States, reported having long covered in March 2024, which I think was around the time that the methylphenidate shortage made me think
- [05:49]
Host 1
about it, because this article's from 2024 estimates. Very hot as a topic, though.
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Host 2
It's hot for me. It's hot for me.
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Pablo Torre
Yeah.
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Host 2
Oh, super spicy. But estimates vary as to exactly how many of those people struggle with cognitive function. But in one study of people with long Covid, close to half reported having poor Memory or brain fog.
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Host 1
That's a lot.
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Host 2
That's a lot of people. So just looking here, apparently the neurological overlap and dopamine damage, that's related to long Covid, it directly counters the effectiveness of ADHD medication. So the dopamine neuron infection research indicates that the SARS CoV2 can infect and damage dopamine producing neurons. Because ADHD is structurally rooted in low dopamine levels, this viral destruction further depletes neurotransmitters, outstripping what standard stimulant dosages can compensate for. Oh, my brain's doing that pattern matching thing and going, did I go into autistic burnout Because I got Covid.
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Host 1
I'm thinking, so. Because I did.
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Host 2
So I did go into burnout.
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Host 1
I've complained, like, how ADHD medication doesn't really do anything for me as far as, like, my impulse or my, you know, like, just being easily distracted. Things like that. Which people say, oh, this is why I take it. I'm like, well, no, it's just. It's just made me calmer. But, But I've also needed help from, from like, Ashley and, you know, now zinc, you know, hela to the zinc.
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Host 2
I need to get shares, don't we.
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Host 1
Yeah, but just, just in general, I've reworked on myself as a human, so I didn't take ADHD medication. All of a sudden I'm just sort of this sort of Buddhist monk. Just don't. Don't hurt the world. The world will look after you. That, you know, that didn't just happen overnight. I'm not like that. But you know what I mean.
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Host 2
Yeah, I do.
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Host 1
I don't just go, oh, I took methamphetate and now I'm awesome. It was a lot of hard work. So I'm thinking, does methylphenidate just maybe it. It doesn't work on me.
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Host 2
You've done that.
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Host 1
Well, as they should do.
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Host 2
Yeah. You've done that thing where you've said something and I'm reading it as you're saying it. And I'm going, really?
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Host 1
Because I. I had Covid.
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Host 2
Yeah.
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Host 1
I don't have long Covid.
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Host 2
Yeah. Frontal lobe vulnerability. The virus impacts the brain's frontal lobe, which governs executive function, working memory, and impulse control. Long Covid introduces severe secondary executive dysfunction that compounds existing ADHD symptoms.
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Host 1
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
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Host 2
Neuroinflammation in systematic strain. Prefrontal cortex inflammation. Long Covid causes persistent neuroinflammation and pro oxidation pathways that disrupt the prefrontal cortex. This structural Stress physically prevents ADHD medications from effectively strengthening neural connections. Serotonin and neurotransmitter depletions Systemic immune responses Viral associated interferons drive severe serotonin depletion altering the overall chemical environment of the brain and diminishing the efficiency of targeted ADHD treatments.
- [09:20]
Host 1
My ADHD is making it hard to follow that.
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Host 2
Yeah, it's a lot of words. Even I was struggling to say it.
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Host 1
Yeah, I, I get, I get the gist. Yeah. Long covered bad. It's, it's crazy because like it's not something that I would have ever even like considered at the time but obviously we're learning more and more, more about like the effects that Kovid actually had on, on people and they weren't just oh, it was a bit of a cold. Like there's this long term effect of, of like to the virus that shut down the world.
- [09:58]
Host 2
Oh yeah, it was still living in the ripple effects of it. Now you only have to see like kids that are 19, 20 that were in like GCSE sort of time. Like they were, they've really struggled transitioning and I never was positive for Covid, not once. I think I had it because there was one particular time that I had a flu that kept me in bed for like three days and I sweated like a, a third of my body weight out. But every time I took a test it came back negative.
- [10:26]
Host 1
Same. Absolutely.
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Host 2
I'm adamant that I had covered. Whereas I've known multiple people that have had it two or three times. I was it not close to. But there were people that my family knew who died of COVID that were elderly. But I don't think I know anybody that's had long covered. I don't know anybody that's had reoccurring symptoms or had a lot of health issues because of it. Personally I, I do but I've heard a lot of, I've heard a lot of bad things.
- [10:57]
Host 1
Yeah. And my, my mum, my new mum, she, she, she's still suffering from it. She. Yeah like she's never smoked a day in her life but she, it's like she, she's smoking 50 a day.
- [11:11]
Host 2
She like that raspy sort of like gutters.
- [11:15]
Host 1
Some days she will just really, really struggle with, with just you know, being able to just function because of it. It, it took a toll really badly on her. She was in hospital for quite some time. Me, how it was for me is that I'm. I, you know, I would go to work because I was an essential worker. I'd go to Work. And then on the way home, I'd. You know, after a night shift, It'd be like 7 o' clock in the morning. I'd. I'd stop off on my way home and I'd go for a run in the woods. And I would do that every day. And obviously no one around. Never saw anyone. Best day ever. And one day I'm running and I. I got about, I don't know, 20ft and I was out of breath and I was like, what? I run every day. Like I'm. And then suddenly I was just out of breath. And then I started walking and I was still out of breath and I got back to the car and I'm like. I was like, oh. And I was like, right. And this was right at the beginning of COVID There's like a couple weeks into it before March, April sort of time. Yeah. But then, you know, so I just assumed that I had it. And then I. And then I. I had like, know coughing and. And sneezing and stuff, but sneezing wasn't part of it, but I. I assumed I had it. Like, it didn't really make sense any other way of just suddenly not being able to run because I've had really bad colds and I was still able to go for a run.
- [12:58]
Host 2
Oh, yeah, I've had colds and gone. Still gone to work and, you know, just sort of fed it up to the nines and things like that. Yeah.
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Host 1
But this literally, it. It just, it. It made me feel like I was the fittest dude until, like, I was like the most unhealthy person ever, just overnight. And I do wonder, because after that I definitely got it again, but. And a lot worse. Like I got like, like hot, cold hot.
- [13:26]
Host 2
That's what it was like when I was. It was like really feverish and flu.
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Host 1
Like, I. I've had neurovirus. And I think that was about the only thing that I can. I've experienced that was worse. Is it newer? No, no, it sounds.
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Host 2
It sounds similar, probably wrong.
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Host 1
The one where you can't even put food near your mouth without just going. Yeah, that was. That was. That was the worst thing I've ever had. I had that for a day and a half when I was on holiday. Not nice.
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Host 2
Yeah. Gross.
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Host 1
But, yeah, I. I do wonder, like, how has it affected me? It's not something I've really thought about, like.
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Host 2
No.
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Host 1
Affected me.
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Host 2
To be honest, man, I. I've. The whole Covid thing behind me. It's not something I've thought about a
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Host 1
lot I've just blown my own mind.
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Host 2
Oh, go.
- [14:15]
Host 1
You know, when my, my back originally up was during COVID before that, I was super, super fit. I didn't have any problems with my back whatsoever. Right? I was really fit. Like I said, I was running every day, but before even that, you know, I was in the gym all the time. I was the best weight I was ever. I was the fittest I could ever be. Then during COVID we were trying to keep that up at home. So we would do home workouts. So me, Simon, Sophie would all. We, we. We called it tens. So we would do like 10 squats, 10 push ups.
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Host 2
Yeah, yeah. It's like training.
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Host 1
And we would then do circuit training. So we, we would just do these like, tens. So we would do like five or six different exercises and we would do 10 sets of each or 10 reps of each. And where it up was, we were doing jumping squats and I did a jumping squat and my back just twinged and I was like, oh, that's a bit. That felt a bit weird. And then it got worse and worse and worse. And then that was where it started to the point where I literally had a herniated disc, you know, and then I've gone through all this other that I've been through. You know, last year I was on the stairs and had to call an ambulance because I couldn't get off the stairs. Had to have gas and air just to get me downstairs. I've just had so many problems with, with these, like, pinched nerves in my back. Like, how do I know that that wasn't because of COVID Well, you've done
- [15:43]
Host 2
that thing again where you've read ahead of me. Cognitive fatigue outpacing stimulants, long covered introduces profound physical and chronic fatigue. The severe energy deficit means that even a stimulant provides its typical baseline chemical boost. The user's brain remains too exhausted to register a noticeable improvement in focus and compounding physical symptoms. Long Covid issues like automic nervous system shifts, sleep disturbances and breathing pattern disorders reduce oxygen levels and increase physical anxiety, masking or completely neutralizing the calming, focusing effects of ADHD medication. So I'm wondering, yes, but nervous system shifts because, like, after Covid, I had a lot of, like, regression. It was like, socially I struggled with, like, agoraphobia and stuff after being inside for such a long time. But my body changed, like during COVID from being inside too much. Like, I got like really tight hips and my feet were sort of sore and playing up and things like that. And I do feel like my nervous system had a shift after Covid. And again, I never, I never diagnosed as a positive thing. And I definitely haven't, haven't had long covered because I've not had any of the, like, these recurring symptoms. But it's interesting that you say that you suffered like a nerve injury that then progressed into a hernia during this time.
- [17:17]
Host 1
Yeah, I've, I've just looked at it now and I'm like, you know, asking Google, could Long Covid have caused my bad back? And it's just come up. I mean, obviously you can.
- [17:33]
Host 2
Yeah. And everything that we've said as well isn't medical advice. Consult a professional with anything we've discussed, but yeah.
- [17:40]
Host 1
Oh, God, yeah. Everyone, everyone needs to do their own research and, and talk to people who know more than we did. Like I said, I didn't know anything about long Covid. I just thought this was really fascinating. But, but this is saying yes to, to, to my back. It's saying yes. Long Covid can contribute to a bad back primarily through lasting body inflammation, muscle aches, myalgia, and physical deconditioning from being less active. Because like I said, I, I, I did. I used to be so active. And then during COVID I was only allowed out once a day, like a dog on a walk.
- [18:20]
Host 2
Wow.
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Host 1
So I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't get the physicality of it
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Host 2
being back and your pelvis and.
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Host 1
Yep. And then suddenly I'm doing these, these, you know, jumping squats and the having Covid as well.
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Host 2
Something to think about.
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Host 1
Blowing my mind is my, has my bad back been. I, I never associated the two of them. I just, I, I always said to everyone, oh, it's not because of, during COVID not because of COVID but now, I mean, it doesn't really make a difference. My bad back's my bad back. You know, it is what it is. But there's that definite neurodivergent parts together.
- [19:11]
Host 2
Yeah.
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Host 1
That actually, like, makes a lot of sense because I was super fit before that. Huh.
- [19:22]
Host 2
Because I, I would say that my ADHD sort of lack of focus and executive dysfunction went through the roof during COVID because I got so used to not going out that I found it hard to get the motivation back and everything like that. And, well, this is giving me a lot to think about, a lot to sort of go away and reflect on. I'm not going to get a lot of work done today. Now I'm gonna have to go and do all this research and thinking about this because that's, that's really interesting because I wonder like a lot of women who were perimenopausal during COVID that then got covered that a neurodivergent has that like lit gasoline on it.
- [20:05]
Host 1
Now you're opening Aladdin's car, we're gonna have to delve inside because like I said, we're, we're, we don't really know a lot about COVID but in the most autistic way, by the next time we ever talk about it, we absolutely will know everything there is to know about Long Covid. We will. We will be semi experts in Long Covid by the end of the week.
- [20:28]
Host 2
Maybe we could find some Reddit stories about it and talk about it next week.
- [20:32]
Host 1
Yeah, maybe, maybe there's something there. The long covered Red episode. But in the very ADHD where we'll probably just forget.
- [20:41]
Host 2
Yeah, I'll be editing this next week and I'm like oh yeah, Typical. Typical. Well that's been your hot topic for this week. It wasn't hot until we started putting two and two together and now I'm going to forget to do everything today cuz I'm going to be researching Long Covid.
- [21:03]
Host 1
All the lava, all the hot.
- [21:05]
Host 2
Oh yeah, super hot. Super spicy.
- [21:07]
AWS AI Advertiser
Right?
- [21:07]
Host 2
We will be back next week with another selection of Reddit stories. They may be about COVID we may forget. Watch this space.
- [21:13]
Host 1
I've already forgotten.
- [21:15]
Host 2
Oh no. Well, bye everybody. Be kind, be safe, take care of yourself tonight.
- [21:19]
Host 1
We by.
- [21:30]
AWS AI Advertiser
You're either all in on this model or maybe you're building with another. You're either speed or is it security? You're either custom or are you ready to use or your AWS AI. With hundreds of models ready to use agents, speed and security built in, you don't have to pick a side. You can have them all. How will AI revolutionize your business? AWS AI is how with my Sapphire
- [22:01]
Chase Sapphire Advertiser
Preferred card we took a trip to a desert Oasis, earning five times the points on Chase Travel, two times the points on all other travel, plus $100 hotel credit. Chase Sapphire Preferred a car that's preferred for a reason cards issued by JP Morgan, Chase bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval terms applying hey,
- [22:16]
Pablo Torre
this is Pablo Torre from Pablo Torre finds Out and today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile. In sports, there's always pressure to chase the next big thing. But sometimes the smartest play is sticking with what's already working for you. Boost Mobile gets that if your phone is running fine, you should not have to buy a new one just to get a better deal. Bring your phone to Boost Mobile and get unlimited wireless for just $25 a month. Forever. No contracts, no price hikes. Visit Boost Mobile. Unlock your phone. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan.
- [22:53]
Host 2
Thanks for listening. Support Autistic led media through Autistic Culture plus and enjoy bonus content, early episodes and ad free listening. Visit autisticculture supercast.com to learn more.