Hot Topic: Why Job Hunting Is Harder for Neurodivergent People

Summary

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The Neurodivergent Experience

Episode: Hot Topic: Why Job Hunting Is Harder for Neurodivergent People

Hosts: Jordan James & Simon Scott
Date: December 19, 2025

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Brief Overview

This episode of The Neurodivergent Experience delves into the harsh realities and unique frustrations neurodivergent people—specifically those with autism, ADHD, and related conditions—face while job hunting. Drawing on personal stories, survey data, and cultural insights, hosts Jordan and Simon dissect how discrimination, workplace culture, and societal misconceptions often create significant barriers to employment for neurodivergent individuals. The episode’s tone weaves humor, honesty, and plenty of real-world critique, making for a nuanced and relatable discussion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Employment Discrimination and Vicious Cycles

• Intro to the Problem
  • The majority of neurodivergent people face discrimination during both job searches and employment ([04:36-05:54]).
  • "We are boosting the economy... it's crazy, the fact that we're struggling to find work because of discrimination, and then we face discrimination when we don't work. It's like, hello, people. We can't do anything right." — Simon ([05:53])
• Societal Perceptions
  • Public and political discourse often frames neurodivergent people as a "burden," while ignoring their economic contributions and needs.
  • Jordan and Simon emphasize: if more neurodivergent people were enabled to work, not only would their quality of life improve, but they’d also benefit the broader economy ([05:26-06:17]).

2. Stereotypes and 'Superpower' Narratives

• Unhelpful Labeling
  • The hosts critique the prevalent "superpower" narrative about neurodivergence, noting it often feels belittling or infantilizing.
  • "You're either incapable or you're so smart your brain exploded from awesomeness. No, I don't think you need to be highly intelligent to go to work. That's a ridiculous idea." — Simon ([07:27])
  • While some embrace the positivity, both feel terms like "superpower" can obscure very real struggles and needs for support ([08:44-10:44]).

3. Disclosure Dilemmas in Job Applications

• Fear of Disclosing Neurodivergence
  • Both hosts discuss their personal reluctance, and conditional willingness, to disclose diagnoses during job interviews.
  • Jordan: "If I was to go for a job interview now, I would disclose that I'm autistic and ADHD and dyslexic and dyspraxic and all fun things... These are all the things that I'm absolutely brilliant at. This is where I need support and accommodation." ([11:56])
  • Simon and Jordan agree: asking for accommodations often seems to put up new barriers, and requests are frequently met by skepticism or blowback ([12:14-13:16]).
• Workplace Attitudes
  • Repeated anecdotes of managers punishing mistakes or refusing praise reinforce why many feel unsafe disclosing neurodivergence.

4. Toxic Work Cultures and Broken Support Systems

• Hostile Management & Lack of Accommodations
  • Jordan shares a personal story of mistreatment after being late due to a train malfunction, exposing a lack of empathy within management ([13:16-14:49]).
  • Many neurodivergent individuals have experienced working environments so demoralizing they are afraid to re-enter the workforce ([14:49-16:58]).
  • "Some people are just not built to fight and they shouldn't have to. This is what reasonable adjustments and accommodations should be made for, so we don't have to fight for our existence." — Simon ([15:59])
• Absence of Neuro-Affirming Spaces
  • Calls for more involvement of neurodivergent people in workplace assessment and policy development (e.g., involvement with RTN Diagnostics).

5. What the Research Shows

[21:21]

• Survey by Zurich UK (insurance firm) finds:
  • 50% of neurodivergent adults have been discriminated against when seeking a job.
  • 1 in 5 have been laughed at.
  • 1 in 6 have had job offers rescinded due to their neurodivergence.
  • 51% feel unable or unwilling to disclose neurodivergence for fear of stigma.
  • Two-thirds believe employers view neurodiversity as a red flag.
  • Only 3 in 10 diagnosed autistic people in the UK are in employment, despite many wanting to work ([21:21-23:01]).
  • "[W]e can do more to break down stigma, increase understanding and acceptance and benefit from the differences in thinking and approach that embracing everybody’s unique differences brings." — Jane Cullen, Brain Charity ([22:11])

6. Systemic Solutions and Law Changes

• Proactive Accommodations
  • Rather than reactive accommodations after hiring, workplaces should be required by law to proactively be disability- and neurodivergent-friendly ([23:26-25:20]).
    • "There’s not enough laws that say, right, you have to make this place disability friendly... What it should be is they should just make as many adjustments as possible within the workplace." — Simon ([24:05])
• Industry-Specific Experiences
  • Arts/theatre and media industries run on neurodivergent energy, but neurodivergent workers often remain undervalued or sidelined ([25:20-26:45]):
    • "I have never sat with a neurotypical lighting designer in my life... those roles are the nerd roles...yet they're absolutely integral." — Jordan ([26:41])

7. Erosion of Trust and Emotional Impact

• Past workplace traumas, lack of recognition, and public humiliation for mistakes erode trust and self-worth ([28:51-30:26]).
  • "I've been crucified before in public for a mistake I made at work and didn't even acknowledge the brilliance of everything else." — Jordan ([29:43])
  • "It nearly destroyed me, dude. Nearly just absolutely ruined me... but because I feel so positive about it, no one can ever knock me for being neurodivergent." — Simon ([29:53])
• Persistent imposter syndrome, lack of appreciation, and systemic exclusion can lead to burnout and depression.

8. Personal Stories of Burnout and Self-Advocacy

• Jordan describes being dismissed from a plant shop job after COVID/burnout, and the discouragement of feeling unwanted even in entry-level positions ([32:49-34:15]).
• The ongoing governmental squeeze on support (like PIP benefits) only intensifies the necessity—and the difficulty—of finding dignified employment ([34:15-34:22]).

9. Calls to Action and Community Solidarity

• It is time for legislative change and active solidarity.
• "We’re not giving up. We’re not going anywhere. No one’s going to bring us down. We will always fight." — Simon ([35:04])
• Listeners are encouraged to share their own stories of workplace discrimination and exclusion ([35:04-35:16]).

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Notable Quotes & Moments (With Timestamps)

• "We face discrimination when we don't work. It's like, hello, people. We can't do anything right."
  — Simon ([05:54])

• "You're either incapable or you're so smart your brain exploded from awesomeness."
  — Simon ([07:27])

• "For me, I've used it [‘superpower’], but then, you know, things change and your opinions change..."
  — Jordan ([10:22])

• "I found many times...even before I was autistic identifying...when I explained to people in jobs, 'I’ve got ADHD, this is why I made the mistake,' ... 'Okay, we appreciate that, but don’t do it again.' Okay, I’ll try not to be myself at work, I suppose."
  — Jordan ([12:14])

• "There’s so many people...crippled with fear because they were treated so badly just for being who they are."
  — Simon ([14:49])

• "Some people are just not built to fight and they shouldn’t have to, they shouldn’t have to fight. This is what reasonable adjustments and accommodations should be made for, so we don’t have to fight for our existence."
  — Simon ([15:59])

• "They should just make as many adjustments as possible within the workplace... using disability disabled consultants... to tell you what your office and workplace needs to be like."
  — Simon ([24:05])

• "I have never sat with a neurotypical lighting designer in my life. But yet those roles are the nerd roles...yet they're absolutely integral to the entire production. But they're still the nerds. They're not the cool kids."
  — Jordan ([26:41])

• "I've been crucified before in public for a mistake I made at work and didn’t even acknowledge the brilliance of everything else that I'd done. It was, 'Oh, you’re the guy that [messed] up on this. Why don’t you pipe down, mate?'"
  — Jordan ([29:43])

• "It nearly destroyed me, dude. Nearly just absolutely ruined me... but because I feel so positive about it, no one can ever knock me for being neurodivergent."
  — Simon ([29:53])

• "We're not giving up. We're not going anywhere. No one's going to bring us down. We will always fight."
  — Simon ([35:04])

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Important Timestamps

• 04:36 — Discussion of discrimination in job hunting
• 07:16–10:44 — Critique of "superpower" narratives and disclosure dilemmas
• 11:56–13:16 — Experiences of disclosure and workplace resistance
• 14:49–16:58 — Fear, trauma, and the need for accommodations
• 21:21–23:01 — Key statistics on workplace discrimination
• 24:05–25:20 — Legal and systemic obstacles, proposed solutions
• 25:20–29:43 — Industry-specific bias in arts/media/theatre, lack of recognition
• 29:43–32:49 — Direct personal impacts, mental health, and burnout
• 34:15–35:04 — Systemic issues, governmental failures, and need for solidarity

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Final Thoughts

Jordan and Simon’s frank adventures into their own and others’ lived experiences reveal the deep disconnect between neurodivergent talent and the working world’s ability (or willingness) to embrace it. Beyond offering catharsis, the hosts call for real-world change—strengthened disability rights, mandated inclusive policies, consulting actual neurodivergent people, and most of all, community support and action.

The episode is a must for listeners seeking validation, advocacy insights, and a sense of not being alone.

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Listener Call to Action:
Were you—or someone you know—discriminated against because of neurodivergence at work or in hiring? Share your story in the comments or join the ongoing conversation on social media.

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Transcript

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I was wondering how long it'd take you.

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Yeah. For everyone listening, I bought the fake ones because the real ones were about £150 each. Jesus. And the fake ones were £5 each, so. I know, I know.

[A]

This is when special Interests get dangerous, isn't it? Because it's just like, that's a lot, lot of money.

[B]

I won't ever do that. I won't ever. I will become completely and utterly just obsessed with things, but I will never spend ridiculous amounts of money because I have responsibilities. And I. I do wonder, though, if I was, like, single and I had loads of extra cash, would I just be using so much debt, like thousands of pounds of debt from just like Lego or something like that? That's. I definitely think that I would.

[A]

I wanted some Lego for Christmas and I had a little browse in the LEGO store the other day and I was like, that's like my mortgage for the month for a. That's too much. Way too much too.

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I found a yellow submarine, Lego yellow submarine and all the four beetles in Lego form. It was like 180 quid. And I was like, it's a lot.

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That's a lot, isn't it? Because you'll build that in half an hour. That's the thing that I found is.

[B]

Like, it's just a display item anyway.

[A]

It's not what we're talking about this week. What are we talking about this week? We've got an article that's a little on the. The older side, but I believe this is still relevant and I've even recently had conversations with people about this. Which is most autistic and neurodivergent people face discrimination when looking for work, which.

[B]

Is relevant to what we're talking about, because people who are neurodivergent need money for our special interest.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And if. If we can't get jobs, then we did it. Do you know what? Just quickly, this is the real main issue of the fact that people will think of neurodivergent people. This is like the. The public's Persona, and it's shown with, you know, politicians and from reform, is that we are a burden. We're a burden on funding, we're. We're burdened on, you know, money. We cost money. Well, we would actually be making the government money if we could get jobs and pay tax like you and I do.

[A]

And we would boost the economy because we'd be pumping money into a special.

[B]

Interest and we'd be buying more things.

[A]

Look at Games Workshop. It's in the top 100 businesses in the UK now is making a ridiculous amount of money because sad boys like to paint brim dark models from the 41st century.

[B]

I believe they might be happy when they do it.

[A]

I don't know. Oh, they'll be happy, but they don't. They don't look happy when they're queuing and paying £350 for paint and.

[B]

But that's.

[A]

Lords of.

[B]

Yeah, we are boosting the economy, like you said, and it's crazy, the fact that we're struggling to find work because of the discrimination that we face. And then we face discrimination when we don't work. It's like, hello, people. We can't. We can't do. We just. We can't do anything right. We're not allowed to. This is the main issue.

[A]

We. They just. They just want us to disappear. Don't they want us to go into the woods?

[B]

Yeah, well, if we did that, you lot wouldn't have your phones and your Internet and your cars and your TVs and all the. That we invented. You're welcome anyway. Jobs.

[A]

The article states. This is from the ITV website, which is a channel news channel in the uk. The majority of neurodivergent people feel they are discriminated against in the workplace and when looking for work, stats have shown. But those with neurodivergent conditions, such as ADHD and autism, can be some of the very best workers. In fact, many autistic people say it's their superpower. So should more be done to support them in work? Not only are neurodivergent people often highly intelligent and hardworking, offering their employers whole new perspectives, but the UK desperately needs to increase employment to boost economic growth.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of things in there a bit icky. I hate when someone says they're highly intelligent and I'm just like, there's. Thanks. Thanks for that stereotype.

[A]

Great.

[B]

You're either incapable or you're so smart your brain exploded from awesomeness. No, I, I don't think you need to be highly intelligent to. To go to work. That's a ridiculous idea. But, yeah, like, neurodivergent people, I, I think are highly capable. I, I think that, that, that's. That's a much better phrase because I think that that deeming someone's intellectual level on whether or not that they can just have a job, I think is a little bit shitty. But again, it's thing about a lot of these articles is they are meant in, like, good faith and I just think people just don't understand what they're saying is kind of a bit shitty. But that aside, as, you know, a little rant about how I don't like words that aside. Oh, God, yeah. Like, in all honesty and I think we've had. We've definitely talked about this before, so apologies for repeating ourselves. But if you went for a job, would you divulge. The thing is, would you divulge your adhd?

[A]

Here we go. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But would you divulge that you're autistic?

[A]

No, because I don't want anybody to suddenly start going, oh, look at the little manager producer. Look at you make a podcast.

[B]

This is. And this is. I think this is like the TikTok trend that we have nowadays of all, like, the Instagram, everything adhd. It's like, oh, you know adhd. Like, that's actually like a superpower now. And you're just like, fun guys. It's such. It's such a superpower. When I open my cupboards and everything falls out, even though my house is immaculate, but my cupboards look like a disaster zone.

[A]

But it's fun because the Indiana Jones music starts playing as you run away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And.

[B]

And how I. How I literally just keep hitting my head on my new car because I can't get used to the height of it. I'm literally. I'm just. I get so distracted, and I just keep whacking my head on.

[A]

Would make a good comic book, would that. It's like, oh, Lex Luce has defeated Superman. Why put him in a new vehicle?

[B]

Yeah, he can't get out. I can't. Can't get. Can't get used to all the gadgets because he's adhd.

[A]

Windscreen wipers are just going forever. He's like, oh, no.

[B]

Ah, dude. It's like, yeah. I mean, I. Superpower's fun. It's. It's fun for kids, but at the end of the day, it's not a superpower.

[C]

It's.

[B]

It's an ability.

[A]

But again, that's an infantilizing sort of saying that something that somebody's good at. If you go, it's my superpower. I. I love the fact that people want to be super, super positive about it, but sometimes when they use the word superpower, it's like, oh, look at you. The thing that you're good at is a superpower, rather than just being good at. I don't know. I don't know.

[B]

For me, I've used it. But then, you know, things change and your opinions change. But let's. Let's get back on the subject. The. The subject really is that we. We just struggle. Oh, no, we were on the subject. We're literally talking about the subject. Oh, God, where the hell is my brain? See, not superpower really, is it?

[A]

Who am I? Where are you? Who are you? Who are you?

[B]

So like I was saying, like, we would definitely. I, I don't think I'd have an issue if I went for a new job. I don't think I'd have an issue saying that, that I'm autistic. But that's, that's because of who I am and I can be like. And, and because I, because then I can, I can then go into a, like a complete and utter tirade of verbal abuse in the nicest way of like, exactly what that means for me. So it wouldn't just be, oh, I'm autistic. And then I'd be like, that's my disability. I'd, I'd literally, just because I'm a specialist and because of all my experience, I'd be able to explain why me being autistic would be really good for this particular job role. But that's the issue is that a lot of us obviously have alexithymia. A lot of us don't have the knowledge or the ability to portray that knowledge in a confident way. I mean, that's why I've always thought that I do have a lot of privilege in that. What do you think?

[A]

I think if I was to go for a job interview now, I would disclose that I'm autistic and ADHD and dyslexic and dyspraxic and all fun things. And I think I would be able to convey it in a way where I'm like, these are all the things that I'm absolutely brilliant at. This is where I need support and accommodation.

[B]

But do you worry that if you ask for support on accommodation, they're already.

[A]

Yeah, they're already. Because I've, I've been in job interviews before, dude, where I have sat with somebody as they're doing interviews and they go, oh, that candidate was brilliant. Are we going to give them the job? And they were like, no. She's got an annoying laugh. Next. So if I, I have felt many times, even before I was autistic identifying, this is when I was self identifying as adhd. There were times when I explained to people in jobs I was like, oh, I've got adhd. This is why I've made the mistake. And they're like, oh, okay, we appreciate that, but don't do it again. Okay? I'll try desperately not to be myself at work, I suppose. And it's always I found, like, and I've had this before where people have said to me, if you're doing your job right, I don't need to tell you you're doing your job right. I don't need to praise you, but I will tell you when you're doing it wrong.

[B]

Yeah, I don't like that.

[A]

It's not a good management attitude. And a lot of the time as well, I find certain managers that I've had have never done the job that I'm doing, but they don't. They've been a manager elsewhere, they've come into a role and never been on the shop floor to say, and they go, well, why are you doing it that way? This is the way that it should be done. Because I do it every day. And they go, well, do it differently. And the amount of times I'm taken out of my comfort zone and my way of processing because a manager goes, well, I'm the manager, do it how I tell you to do it, even if how I'm telling you to do it is, is, is stupid because I've never put it into practice personally, but on a spreadsheet it works. And there's been so many times where I've, I, I was, I was late for work one time because of issues with a train and I had this manager who was quite insecure and made a point of saying in front of everybody when I walked in the building, oh, you're late again. If you're going to be like, I'm going to give you a disciplinary. And I went, well, with respect, I'm not a train driver. He was like, don't back chat me. But I'm not back chatting you. I'm letting you know that the train that I was on broke down, I got kicked off of it and I've had to get a bus here. And he was like, well, you should have thought about that before you came into work. I was like, just fuck off. You're literally just trying to swing your dick at me and you're not even listening to me. So there's been a lot of times where I'm like, what is the point of even asking for accommodations when people are just going to call you out on stuff anyway?

[B]

Yeah, I think, I think that what you're saying, there is at least a really, really good point of the fact that a lot of neurodivergent people might have got jobs, they might have had jobs and they might have been treated so badly in those jobs, they literally were like, yeah, I'm not doing that again. So there might be. I mean, there is I know neurodivergent people that are like this, that don't have jobs, there is a genuine crippling fear because if I decide, oh, they're scared to get a job, it completely undermines their experience. They are crippled with fear because they were treated so badly just for being who they are. We literally had Anthony Work, who was an NHS worker who was so badly treated because of his neurodivergence. I mean, he still works for the nhs. He fought back, you know, he did a really good job sticking in there and fighting back and now he's fighting for other people. But the way he was treated was so horrific. There's so many people and I don't blame them. I do not blame. There's, there was no weakness in this, there's no blame. Some people are just not built to fight and they shouldn't have to, they shouldn't have to fight. This is what reasonable adjustments and accommodations should be made for, is so we don't have to fight for our existence. And the fact is, is these companies don't provide neuro affirming atmospheres to welcome neurodivergent people into the office, even though it would massively benefit their company to have neurodivergent people working with them. This is, and I can give you a perfect example, is literally, which is why we work with rtn, is because they have so many neurodivergent people within their company. That's why they do a good job.

[A]

Nothing about us without us.

[B]

Exactly. Because they're in. Neurodivergent people are involved in the assessment process. They are in it. Which is what I've always said is how can you assess whether someone's neurodivergent if you're not neurodivergent? Just because you got a box to tick doesn't mean that you truly understand.

[A]

It and that all that terminology and everything will change within five, six, seven years anyway. So because, I mean the stuff that they were discussing in my assessment a few years ago, they're already changing the terminology on fluctuates so quickly. But the one thing ironically that doesn't fluctuate is neurodivergent people and our lived experiences, which has to be at the core of this. But we'll take a short break here and when we come back, we'll dig further into this article and what the stats are saying.

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This is a neurodivergent experience Public Announcement if you live in England and you or a loved one is waiting for an autism or ADHD assessment, you don't have to wait years. RTN Diagnostics is now part of the NHS Right to Choose scheme, which means if your local wait for a consultant led autism or ADHD assessment is more than 18 weeks, you you can choose RTN instead and it won't cost you a penny. Jordan chose RTN for his own family because their care and attention to detail were second to none. They didn't just diagnose autism and adhd, they looked at the full picture, including pda, ocd, anxiety and more. The team is friendly, neuro affirming and comprises many neurodivergent individuals so they truly understand getting started is simple. Download the GP referral letter and questionnaire from the link in our show notes. Take those to your GP and ask for a referral to RTN Diagnostics. If approved, RTN will be in touch within eight weeks to begin your assessment. Remember, this only applies in England and some exclusions do apply. RTN is not currently able to accept referrals for child ADHD assessments, so check the details before you start. RTN diagnostics, helping you get the answers you deserve without the wait. Welcome back to this week's Hot Topic. We have been discussing Most autistic people and other neurodivergent people face discrimination when looking for work and this article has discussed some stats. We've discussed our own experiences and how certain people want to get into work, but maybe their experiences have forced them to feel unaccepted in a workplace. I for one like to work from home because I love doing my job, but I hate office politics and I hate the shmi. Kiss assing because I can't do it if I tried. So that's definitely been something that's affected me. But should we see what the research is saying? So this is a survey. A survey. Don't know what that is.

[B]

It's a bit like that word now that's my new word, a survey.

[A]

It's like a survey. A survey. A survey.

[B]

Scurvy.

[A]

A scurv. So this is a survey by insurance firms, Zurich, uk and has found that half of neurodivergent adults have been discriminated against when looking for a job. One in five have been laughed at and one in six had job offers rescinded because of their neurodivergence.

[B]

Oh, I just got a creep. It's got a creep all over my body. When you said laughed at, that's such a trigger, people laughable in it.

[A]

So the research also shows that 51% feel they cannot or should not disclose their neurodivergence due to the stigma. And two thirds say employers see neurodiversity and as a red flag, this comes from this quotes here that come from Jane Cullen, who is a neurodivergence training manager at the Brain Charity, which is one I've not heard of before. And they told ITV News that figures show that there is a real need for much more awareness of neurodivergence. We can do more to break down stigma, increase understanding and acceptance and benefit from the differences in thinking and approach that embracing everybody's unique differences brings. There are a lot of misconceptions and without change, this can mean that employees are fearful of disclosing their neurodivergence to their employer. Missing out on so much talent. And this also is followed by a review of the former sitting Conservative government that found There are around 1 million autistic people in the UK, according to their statistics, that I believe it's a lot more. But of those that are diagnosed, only 3 in 10 of them are in employment and the majority of them say that they would like to have a job.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, like I said, I know people who are, who are very, very fearful of having a job and. But they would really like a job. But even if it was like, oh, you know, you can work from home or you can do this isolated or let's say it was even just a delivery drive and delivery drivers get treated like crap like that wouldn't be like helpful for a neurodivergent person.

[A]

Oh, I did Amazon driving for three days and I could not do it. Yeah, so stressful.

[B]

It's it's. I mean, the government are like, oh, we want to help people. Well, don't, don't make initiatives, make laws that say this. This is exactly what needs to be put in place in the company. Whether you have neurodivergent people or not, you must provide a neurodivergent friendly atmosphere within your workplace. This is the law. Like, we have laws for like fire safety. Certain buildings have to be up to code for fire safety. It's the law. So there should. And there's like privacy laws and things like that. You know, there's laws within workplaces that workplaces have to adhere to, but there's not enough laws that say, right, you have to make this place disability friendly. There's not enough laws. The laws are that if you have a disabled person, you must accommodate them. But it shouldn't be that because that's suggesting that the person's already got the job and then says they're disabled and then you accommodate for them. What it should be is they should just make as many adjustments as possible within the workplace. Using neurodivergent specialists, using disability specialists, using people from, you know, they say, like, we want to make it like, you know, wheelchair friendly. Then you should have somebody that uses a wheelchair to say, yeah, okay, this, this is a good place. There are people out there, would you call them consultants that like, use neurodivergent, use disability disabled consultants to tell you what you, your office and workplace needs to be like to be welcome to people to apply for the job. Not the people who are already working there. They also need help. But to make it open to everyone. There's not enough laws in place for that.

[A]

And you know what? As well, I've. I totally agree. But what's ironic is I have worked in two industries, the audio radio broadcasting industry and the theater industry. It runs on neurodivergence. Like, these are the sorts of people that are working in it. I've had producers that are literally, it is, it is so their special interest. And they are incredible. I. Are they socially respected? Absolutely not. Like, I've known so many neurodivergent producers that only worked after 7pm because everybody in the office is gone, they can start turning the lights down. And we used to get called vampires. Like it was a general thing. It was like people would be like, oh yeah, come the fucking vampires. Because we all used to work on the later shifts because everybody in the office had fucked off and nobody respected them. Even though they were all brilliant at their jobs. All the people that worked in the day that were the, the schmoozy, boozy socialite workers would talk down to all of these people and they'd be like, oh, he's so analysis. Oh, he's, he's so obsessive like this. Why does he have to click into every ad break? Like, why is he like that? And a lot of those people, in my opinion, were in positions because they were really good at the politics of it, not actually great at the producing element of it.

[B]

Oh, it's who you know, not what you know.

[A]

Yeah. And then in the theater world as well, I experienced it where the best sound designers are neurodivergent. And I will, I will die on that. Like the attention to detail, the ability to storytell and paint a picture through sound effects and sound design. Lighting technicians, crikey, I don't think I've ever met a neurotypical lighting technician. How anybody that is neurotypical can tell me about different gels that go into lights and the 50 year history of them and how Genesis invented. Exactly. Like, I have never sat with a neurotypical lighting designer in my life. But yet those roles are the nerd roles, like the own, the sound people or the lighting people. And yet they're absolutely integral to the entire production. But they're still the nerds. They're not the cool kids. Like the amount of shows that I've worked on where it comes to the final show and the directors and the producers will take the entire cast out for a fully paid meal and a piss up. And the sound crew and the lighting crew and everybody else are left behind to tidy it up and clean it up and put it away and fix it. And they didn't even get a fucking thank you, let alone a free bottle of beer and a pizza at the end of a show that even the press nights, they just, you just non existent, you're just a name on the board. You like, you're faceless. And then all of the people that you make look and sound amazing are the ones that get all of the, all of the praise. And that's something that sort of always used to really frustrate me in the people that are on stage or the directors of the producers were considered artists. And yet the people that made it all happen, their art form wasn't respected. They were just grunts. And I can understand why a lot of people who are neurodivergent that want to work in the arts or want to work in the media would be incredibly intimidated by going in because one of the first questions that anybody asks you is they go, who do you know? Who's your contacts list? Who's recommended you? And how can you get a start if you're just there on ability alone and not because of a recommendation from somebody or how do you get your foot in the door?

[B]

I think there's this other thing of, of every time we've tried to stand up for ourselves in the past as a people and in this circumstance, I can speak for our people because of the amount of messages and communications I've had and it always ends up sounding pretty much the same of that. I don't, I don't trust people, you know, in, in, in companies. I don't trust the HR people. I don't trust my manager. There's no trust there because when they have asked for something or when they have stood out or when they have made mistakes, they, there's no patience, there's no.

[A]

Oh, I've been crucified before in public for a mistake I made at work and didn't even acknowledge the brilliance of everything else that I'd done. It was, oh, you're the guy that up on this. Why don't you pipe down, mate?

[B]

It's literally what led to my depression in 2018. I'm not going into it because I talked about it, but because I messed up at work. You know, they, they literally blamed my autism and it's like they, they had no idea about autism, but they, they just blamed it and, and it, it nearly destroyed me, dude. Nearly just absolutely ruined me. And it's only because I feel so positive about it. No one can ever knock me for being neurodivergent. You can't knock me for being neurodivergent.

[A]

And I think as well, one of the worst things is if you're somebody who's struggling with self confidence and imposter syndrome, if somebody's constantly bringing up your mistakes and hounding you for them, they are reinforcing the negative thoughts that you have about yourself. And I think a lot of people will go, well, I can't do it. What's the point? I think that's the worst thing for me.

[B]

Yeah. I think a lot of companies, rather than spending the time to make the accommodations and, and retrain or train neurodivergent, friendly training. See, I, I tried to change things at my work and nothing changed. And that's me with, with, with the, the clout that I have, with the knowledge I have, with the experience I have. They wouldn't even listen to Me. And, and, and, and, you know, and I, I, I just gave up. I, I literally gave to help my company be better because they didn't even want to listen to me. And I was like, oh, I'm done. I'm not, I'm not going to go out of my way. You know, you can lead a horse to water, but it will freaking die if you don't drink. And that's. I did all the leading I could and they still wouldn't listen. And I just don't care anymore. I, I kind of just make my own accommodations when and when I need them. And that, that's the saddest thing is that I, I don't want to stand out anymore. They, they. I got beaten down. Me, I got beaten down by like, I kept trying to stand up and that. I kept getting knocked back down. And I just went, I just don't care because I don't want to be in my job. I want to do, I want to be a photographer dude. I want to teach photography. I want to do photography. That's, that's my future plan. But I can't afford that because I don't get paid enough to do photography. So I have to stay in my job and I just have to grin and bear it. And that is terrible. So I can't even imagine what it's like for people just like everyday neurodivergent people who are just getting on with their lives. They must be so downtrodden. Oh, just. Well, now I'm depressed.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I, like, I say, you know, I've, I've experienced this myself after Covid and burnout and, you know, I worked at a plant shop for like a month. And after that they just went, yeah, it's not a good fit. Don't know if we sort of trust you in the shop, like. Right, okay. For what reason? And then they sort of explained it to me and while they were sort of going through all of the, the hre. Sort of, I just went, you know what, guys? I went, don't waste your time. And I went, I get that you don't want me here. And I went, and if you don't want me here, I don't want to be here. And I give him the keys. I'm going to see you later, guys. And I just walked out. And after that I was a little bit like, what's the point? What's the point of trying to. Because I went in with the, an openness and I felt like, soon as I said it, I felt the energy change, they were a bit like, don't know if you're what we want. Which was frustrating when you think it was literally just me working in the warehouse section at the back of a plant shop. And it was genuinely just because I worked from home 90% of the time. I had a couple of days free in the week and I thought it'll be good to get me out of the house and it got me back in it. So I have a lot of sympathy for people that are struggling with it and I really do hope that there is changes. And I think, like, you are correct in what you were saying earlier is that it needs to be a law change. It needs to be a legal requirement for people not to have a predetermined bias of what neurodivergent disabled people are.

[B]

Yeah. Especially if the government are cutting back on pip. So not only.

[A]

Not only is the workplace.

[B]

Yeah, we need to get in the workplace, but even people in the workplace are actually entitled to pip. They're just not getting it because, again, the government. Oh, dude. I. Honestly, I. I think just doing this has made me just feel worse because I don't know what the hell we're meant to do. Like, I just don't know what we're meant to do. Like, we're out, we. We're trying as best we can and it just seems like we're throwing, like, a water balloon, an elephant, and thinking that's going to stop it from charging you. I don't know. Anyway, I suppose a thousand water balloons might stop an elephant, so let's hope we just keep plugging away. We're not giving up. We're not going anywhere. No one's going to bring us down. We will always fight.

[A]

Yep. And we want to hear from you. Are you a neurodivergent person that's faced discrimination in a workplace? Did you not get a job because you disclosed you were autistic? I would be very interested to hear your stories. Yeah.

[B]

In the comments.

[A]

It is in the comments. We will. We will definitely read and think about it. So that's been your hot topic for this week. We will be back on Thursday with another episode of the Neurodivergent Experience. Ashley will be with you on Monday with mindful Monday stuff. Start your week with purpose. Thank you very much, everybody. Take care of yourself. Be kind out there, be safe nightly.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

Thanks for tuning in to the Neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you. Whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next next one for more conversations and insights into the neurodivergent experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. Just search for the neurodivergent experience. Thank you again for listening and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[E]

In 1995, the world's most successful actor strapped himself to the mast of a catamaran in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. A helicopter nearly decapitated him, and he almost drowned. He did it for his art. He did it for what he loved. He did it for Waterworld. My name is Chris Winterbauer and I believe that every movie is a miracle, even the bad ones. Join me every other week on what Went Wrong, a podcast dedicated to finding the key chaos and humanity in Hollywood's biggest flops and most shocking successes.

[A]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.