Mindful Mondays With Ashley Dupuy | Falling to Fly: A Trust Fall into Presence

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Neurodivergent Experience
Episode: Mindful Mondays With Ashley Dupuy | Falling to Fly: A Trust Fall into Presence
Date: August 9, 2026
Host: Ashley DePuy (with contributions from co-host/meditation guide)

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Overview of the Episode

This Mindful Monday episode, titled “Falling to Fly: A Trust Fall into Presence,” explores the nuanced meaning of “presence” for neurodivergent people. Ashley DePuy candidly describes the challenges of trust, the longing for certainty, and the difficulty of living fully in the present moment when your mind is wired for vigilance, analysis, and prediction. Using vivid metaphors—birds in flight, childhood memories, dancing, and Yoga Nidra—Ashley offers practical, compassionate guidance towards cultivating mindful presence, especially for those balancing neurodivergent processing with the unpredictability of life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Metaphor of Falling to Fly (01:48)

• Swallows and House Martins: Ashley shares that these birds spend nearly all their lives airborne, even eating and sleeping in flight. They don’t “take off” traditionally but drop from their nests, experiencing a moment of total uncertainty between support and flight.
  • “A swallow doesn't simply step out onto the ground and climb into the sky. It drops into flight for one extraordinary interval. The old support has disappeared, and the new has not yet been felt.” (02:00)
• Relating to Neurodivergence: This is likened to the vulnerability of being present—trusting life without rehearsal or certainty, especially poignant for neurodivergent thinkers.

2. The Reality of Presence for Neurodivergent People (03:44)

• Processing & Prediction: Presence isn’t inherently calming for neurodivergent folks; brains may be rehearsing past interactions, analyzing social cues, or preparing for future scenarios.
• Safe but Disconnected: Perpetual rehearsal and prediction can feel responsible and safe, yet keep you a step ahead and unavailable to the present.
  • “Prediction may have kept us safe, but it can also keep us living one beat ahead of our lives.” (04:20)

3. Childhood Trust Fall Story & Lifelong Lessons (05:03)

• Personal Anecdote: Ashley recounts a childhood family game of trust falls that ended with her falling to the floor because she misread the group’s readiness.
  • “I landed bold, dead weight on the hard kitchen floor... the nervous system doesn't only learn from intention, it learns from impact.” (05:46)
• Trust & Neurodivergence: The lesson wasn’t just about trusting others, but about trusting one’s own read of the situation—a challenge for many neurodivergent individuals with nuanced social perception.

4. Learning Trust in the Body (07:16)

• Kinesiology Example: A therapeutic experience revealed Ashley consciously believed in her decisions, yet her body’s response told a different story. Trust must be learned through lived, embodied experience, not just intellectual acceptance.
• Tiny Bridges of Trust: Begin with small, sensory moments—feeling the ground, the bed, the physical space supporting you.

5. Presence Through the Wisdom of Ram Dass (08:50)

• Be Here Now: The story of Ram Dass learning from Bhagavan Das—being continually returned to the present even when uncomfortable.
  • “Each time his mind ran into the future or reached into the past, Bhagavan Das gently returned him by gently saying, ‘Why don’t you just be here now?’” (09:57)
• The Present as The Only Ground: The past and future offer familiarity; the present, though often uncomfortable, is the only place where information and response are available.

6. Playful Metaphors—Dance & Presence (11:40)

• Swing Dancing: Ashley recounts loving swing dancing but never letting a partner lead. Overanticipating movements mirrored her need for prediction.
• Lesson: The true grace in dancing—like life—comes from responding, not controlling, and trusting the moment as it unfolds.

7. Trust as Softness, Not Certainty (12:58)

• Not Bracing, But Responding: Trust isn’t knowing you’ll be caught; it’s softening enough to respond as things happen, even when outcomes are unknown.
  • “Bracing against the fall does not stop us falling. It only makes it harder to move with what’s happening.” (13:01)
• Alan Watts Anecdote:
  • “When a cat falls out of a tree, it lets go of itself... be like a cat.” (13:01)
  • Embrace the inevitability of falling (uncertainty/change), and respond fluidly rather than tense up.

8. The Microdosing Presence Practice (14:10)

• Practical Invitation: Each day, “walk in on an ordinary moment”—catch yourself in the present during a routine activity.
  • Use awe, curiosity, and play to see more, tune in, and move with the moment, respectively.
  • “You are not trying to manufacture trust or force yourself into calm. You are gathering tiny experiences of working with life as it is.” (15:36)

9. From Mask to Map—Ongoing Community Work (16:20)

• Group Coaching & Insight Timer: Ashley announces details for the next “From Mask to Map” cohort and offers additional resources for longer practices.
• Redefining Presence: “Presence is not the absence of uncertainty. Perhaps it’s the moment uncertainty becomes usable.” (17:03)

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Guided Yoga Nidra Practice

(Starts at 17:24)

Practice Overview

• Theme: A gentle, grounded Yoga Nidra to cultivate trust and deepen presence.
• Inspired by: Ellie Boothroyd’s practices.
• Instructions:
  • Find a supported posture, close your eyes, notice sensations of support, breath, sounds.
  • Set a gentle intention (e.g., “I can meet this moment”).
  • Move awareness throughout the body—hands, arms, feet, legs, front and back bodies, integrating all physical sensations.
  • Visualize the swallow taking flight: the ground disappears before flight is certain, yet the bird discovers support in the air.
  • Return awareness gently, carrying trust in your capacity to meet life’s unpredictability.

Notable Quotes from Practice

• “You can trust yourself to be held by the surface beneath you.” (19:04)
• “Trust doesn’t mean that every person will catch you... It may simply mean trusting that you can arrive here and notice what is here and use what is here.” (32:36)
• “Perhaps just for a few breaths, you allow the moment to lead. No need to anticipate the next step. Just feel this inhale and this exhale and this point of contact...” (33:55)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Trust & Uncertainty:
  • “Perhaps presence is not the absence of uncertainty. Perhaps it’s the moment uncertainty becomes usable.” —Ashley DePuy (17:03)
• On Dancing with Life:
  • “We use [the present] as a corridor between what happened and what might. But what if we stopped in the corridor? What if we met the moment?” —Ashley DePuy (10:46)
• On Self-Compassion:
  • “There is only the position that meets the body you’ve brought with you today.” (19:00)
• On Adaptation & Identity (Preview for Next Week):
  • “Nine archetypal protective roles that help us understand who we learn to become in order to belong, stay safe, and keep going.” (35:56)
• Closing Blessing:
  • “May you notice the ground when the ground is here, and may you feel the air when the ground falls away. And may you discover that you do not need to predict every moment in order to dance with your life. And as always, remember we are all just walking each other home.” (36:50–37:03)

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Important Timestamps

• Topic Introduction & Bird Metaphor: 01:48–03:33
• Reality of Neurodivergent Presence: 03:44–05:03
• Childhood Trust Fall Story: 05:03–07:13
• Embodied Trust/Kinesiology: 07:16–08:50
• Ram Dass & “Be Here Now”: 08:50–11:00
• Swing Dancing Metaphor: 11:40–12:58
• Alan Watts, Cats & Trust: 13:01–14:10
• Microdosing Presence Practice: 14:10–16:20
• Yoga Nidra Guided Meditation: 17:24–34:21
• Wrap-up & Preview Next Week: 35:46–37:03

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Conclusion

This episode weaves personal narrative, metaphor, and trauma-informed mindfulness into a uniquely neurodivergent take on presence and trust. Ashley DePuy invites listeners to “fall to fly”—to dare meeting the moment not with perfect preparation, but with a growing willingness to trust in themselves, in sensation, and in the ordinary magic of simply being here. The session closes with an inclusive, gentle meditation and a preview of future explorations about adaptation, belonging, and neurodivergent identity.

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Transcript

[Ashley DePuy]

The autistic culture podcast network.

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

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[Ashley DePuy]

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[Ashley DePuy]

Welcome back to Mindful Mondays. I'm your host, Ashley DePuy, and this is your weekly space to step out of the rehearsal and take a trust fall into the medicine of presence itself, right here on the Neurodivergent Experience Podcast, part of the Autistic Culture Podcast Network. So whether you're neurodivergent or wondering whether you might be, or simply longing to feel a little more present, trusting and alive inside your own life, you are so very welcome here. And I recently learned something about Swift's swallows and house martins that I can't stop thinking about. These magical birds eat, drink, and even sleep in flight, spending almost their entire lives held by something we can't see. Their nesting places need height and clear space beneath them, because a swallow doesn't simply step out onto the ground and climb into the sky. It drops into flight for one extraordinary interval. The Old support has disappeared, and the new has not yet been felt. No ledge beneath the feet, no proof of lift, just wings, air and instinct and the ancient intelligence of the body meeting the moment. They are literally falling to fly. And I find that almost unbearably beautiful, because sometimes the moment before we discover

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

what can hold us feels exactly like falling.

[Ashley DePuy]

And over the last three episodes, we've been following a thread. Awe widened the frame and curiosity leaned in closer.

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

And play left the outcome open.

[Ashley DePuy]

And today I want to bring all three together in a trust fall into the present moment. And for many neurodivergent people, presence can feel far less peaceful than wellness culture often suggests. Our brains are often doing an enormous amount of conscious processing, analyzing what just happened, rehearsing what may happen, reviewing what we said and what they meant and what we missed and how we might prevent getting it wrong next time. And this can feel productive. It can feel like responsibility or. And even safety. But when we continually review the past or rehearse the future, we are less available to the information arriving now. Prediction may have kept us safe, but it can also keep us living one beat ahead of our lives. And I think my own complicated relationship with trust began very early. I was about six years old, the youngest of three, and one afternoon my entire family was in the kitchen playing a game I had never encountered before.

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

Trust falls.

[Ashley DePuy]

One by one, we stood with our backs to the family and let ourselves fall and were caught. And it was wonderful. And we were all taking turns. Each one of us had several goes, at least. And there was that tiny thrill of leaving the ground, followed by the amazement of landing safely in familiar arms. And everyone was laughing. And then it was my turn again, and everyone was still basking in the previous person's fall. But I knew I was next, and that felt like all the information I needed. So I turned around and fell backwards,

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

and nobody was ready.

[Ashley DePuy]

And I landed bold, dead weight on the hard kitchen floor. And everyone froze. They were shocked. They felt awful. There was absolutely no deliberate betrayal here. But the nervous system doesn't only learn from intention, it learns from impact. And when I think about that moment now, I wonder whether the deepest lesson wasn't simply other people might not catch me. Perhaps it was more I might not be able to trust my own reading of the moment. I knew it was my turn, but what I didn't know was whether everybody else knew it, too. And for neurodivergent people, experiences of somehow misreading the moment can gather across a lifetime the unspoken rule. Everyone else appeared to Understand the moments we were told we were too much or too little, too sensitive or somehow wrong again. And eventually analysis becomes an attempt to build a floor beneath every future fall. And Years later, in 2012, a cranial sacral therapist introduced me to kinesiology. She asked me to hold out my arm and to read a statement aloud as she gently pressed down on my arm. And the statement that she asked me to say out loud was, I trust

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

the decisions I make.

[Ashley DePuy]

And I thought, well, this is going to be easy. Consciously, I believed I did. But when she barely pressed down, my arm folded like a house of cards. Something about those words landed so deeply that I've remembered that moment ever since. And only later did I connect that with the kitchen floor and other moments where conscious intention and embodied expectation seem to tell different stories. Trust cannot only be learned intellectually. You can learn to swim on a piano stool, but eventually the body needs water. We build trust through experiences of trusting. And if trust feels like a feeling too far out of reach for you, then we build a bridge of tiny moments of trust. Small, ordinary moments. The bed holding our weight, trusting the ground to meet the next footstep. And this brings me to one of the most famous invitations into presence. Spiritual leader Ram Dass's Be Here Now. And before he was Ram Dass, he was Richard Alpert, a Harvard psychologist and a man accustomed to understanding and explaining. But during his travels in India, he followed Bhagavan Das, a young Westerner he barely knew, on a religious pilgrimage, and the comfort disappeared quickly. He was walking barefoot with blistered feet. His belongings and money were gone. He was suffering with dysentery and sleeping on the ground or hard wooden boards until his hips were bruised. Everything in him wanted to know what was happening. How long will we be traveling? What does this mean in relation to everything that came before? And each time his mind ran into the future or reached into the past, Bhagavan Das gently returned him by gently saying, why don't you just be here now? And this isn't because the present moment was comfortable. It clearly was not. But the present was the only place containing the ground beneath him and the information available and the next possible response. And Ram Dass later observed that his whole social identity seemed connected with the past or the future, while he was merely passing through the present moment. And goodness, so many of us are merely passing through the present. We use it as a corridor between what happened and what might. But what if we stopped in the corridor? What if we met the moment? What if we Walked in on the moment. And I love that phrase because there's something really playful inside of it. It's as though the moment has just been getting on with its strange little life while we were away, inside of our thoughts. And suddenly we catch it in the act. Oh, hello. What's happening here? We catch it before the old story explains it. We catch it before prediction ushers us towards the expected ending. What is my body doing? What is this person actually saying? What support or possibility already exists in this moment. And then perhaps we can learn to dance with the moment and to take dancing with the moment literally. This takes me back to the late 90s, when I was lost in the latest dance craze of swing dancing. And I became quite good at it. I knew the steps and I loved the music. And the fashion was so much fun. A wonderful special interest for me. I was a good dancer, yes, but I wasn't a great dancer because there was one crucial thing I could never do, and that was let my partner lead. I knew that that was an enormous part of the dance. I understood it intellectually, yet I couldn't stop anticipating the next movement. Remember duration, path, outcome from last week? My mind kept trying to consciously predict my partner's next move, which kept me from ever fully relaxing into the flow of the dance. And of course, today I can totally understand why. There were several layers inside that autistic processing, my history with trust and the intelligent protection of a hypermobile body trying to keep vulnerable joints safe. The presence never means overriding the body or abandoning discernment or trusting every partner. It means responding to the dance that is actually happening with the body that we actually have. And perhaps that's what makes falling such a powerful image for presence. Falling is life. Without rehearsal, the expected ground disappears, and for one suspended moment, there's nothing left to predict. Only air, gravity, the intelligence of the body, and whatever the moment offers us to work with. And we often imagine trust means knowing that we'll be caught. But perhaps trust is something subtler. Perhaps it is remaining soft enough to respond even when we do not yet

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

know what will hold us.

[Ashley DePuy]

Because bracing against the fall does not stop us falling. It only makes it harder to move with what's happening. And Alan Watts offered one of the most vivid images I know for this. He once wrote, when a cat falls out of a tree, it lets go of itself. The cat becomes completely relaxed and lands lightly on the ground. But if a cat were about to fall out of a tree and suddenly make up its mind that it didn't want to fall, it would become tense and rigid and would just be a bag of broken bones upon landing. In the same way, it is the philosophy of the DAO that we are all falling off a tree at every moment of our lives. As a matter of fact, the moment we were bored, we were kicked off a precipice and we are falling and there's nothing that can stop it. So instead of living in a state of chronic tension, clinging to all sorts of things that are actually falling with us because the whole world is impermanent. Be like a cat.

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

And I love that.

[Ashley DePuy]

Be like a cat. This isn't passive. This is responsive. And it's not without instinct, intelligence or boundaries. It's soft enough to work with gravity and soft enough to discover what the moment allows. So for this week's microdosing meeting, I want to invite you to walk in on an ordinary moment each day. No grand ceremony. You could be washing a mug or waiting for the kettle to boil, standing in the shower or maybe opening an email or stepping outside and just pause and playfully walk in on yourself. Oh hello there. What has been quietly happening here while the mind was somewhere else? And just notice what you're noticing. Awe might notice the tiny galaxy in a soap bubble or the astonishing fact that you are alive to witness this completely ordinary Thursday. Curiosity might ask what is actually happening before my familiar story explains it? And play might wonder if this moment were my dance partner. How is it inviting me to move? And perhaps you can change the rhythm or hum a note or move your body differently or follow one small flicker of interest. You are not trying to manufacture trust or force yourself into calm. You are gathering tiny experiences of working with life as it is. You are gathering tiny experiences of presence. Awe helps you see more of the moment, curiosity helps you meet what is actually there and play helps you move before the ending has been written. And together they become a way of dancing with uncertainty, a way of allowing the fall to teach the wings.

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

And this is at the heart of

[Ashley DePuy]

my From Mask to Map work. Moving out of constant self surveillance and into a more trusting relationship with your own nervous system, an inner world, an unfolding life and the details of my 8 week from mask to Map group coaching cohort are now [e-mail] we begin on the 15th of September and the group is limited to 10 people and places are already beginning to fill and you can also find my longer meditations and yoga nidras nervous system practices and bedtime alchemy stories over on Insight Timer. Just search for Ashley Dupuis. Perhaps presence is not the absence of uncertainty. Perhaps it's the moment uncertainty becomes usable. When we stop demanding proof of the air, we can begin to feel how it moves.

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

The ground, the rhythm, the next available

[Ashley DePuy]

movement, the wings we may already possess. And now I want to guide you into a short Yoga Nidra practice for cultivating trust. A chance to notice all of the little ways that you are already being held and perhaps to take your own gentle trust fall into the present moment. And this practice is a loving homage to one of my favorite Yoga Nidra teachers, Ellie Boothroyd, whose own practice on trust has held and inspired me many times. And I want to begin with a beautiful phrase of Ally's which has stayed with me, an invitation to take a trust fall into the medicine of presence itself. So if you are currently driving or operating heavy machinery, please ensure to pause the recording now until you can safely

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

come back into stillness.

[Ashley DePuy]

Just find a position in which your

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

body can feel fully supported.

[Ashley DePuy]

Maybe that's lying down or.

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

Or you could also be seated with the back of the body resting against something steady. Just let your legs and arms find a position that doesn't require them to hold themselves up. Just gather anything that will help you feel warm and comfortable and contained.

[Ashley DePuy]

There is no perfect position.

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

There is only the position that meets the body you've brought with you today. That's right. And when you're ready, feel free to gently close your eyes. And just begin by noticing that the surface beneath you has already arrived. You did not have to imagine it into being. You did not have to rehearse the exact way it would meet your weight. The body settled and the surface responded. You can trust yourself to be held by the surface beneath you and just feel where the heels, the legs, the pelvis, back, the arms and the head are being met. You may notice pressure, warmth, weight, texture. Perhaps some areas feel clearly supported and others less so. Nothing needs to be changed unless the body asks for an adjustment. And if it does, just trust yourself enough to make one. And notice the sounds around you, sounds nearby, sounds farther away. No need to follow them or decide what they mean. Just let each one arise, exist and path. The moment coming toward you in waves and you here to meet it. And just notice the breath, your already happening breath. Feeling the inhale arrive and feeling the exhale leave. The body receiving and the body releasing. Breath by breath. Discovering that you do not need to know the next breath in order to meet this one. And can you begin to form a gentle intention for this practice a direction in which trust might begin to grow. An example could be, I can meet this moment, or I am learning to remain with myself. Or perhaps I can trust the support that is here. Just choose the words that feel most honest and repeat them inwardly three times. Now,

[Ashley DePuy]

Bringing awareness now to the right hand.

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

The thumb, first finger, second finger, third finger and small finger. The palm of the hand, the back of the hand, wrist, elbow, shoulder. The whole right arm resting. Awareness now to the left hand. The thumb, first finger, second finger, third finger and small finger. Palm of the hand, back of the hand, wrist, elbow, shoulder. The whole left arm resting. Awareness in Both hands together. Both arms together. Nothing for them to carry right now, nothing for them to catch. Rotating your awareness now to the right foot and the toes. The sole of the foot, the heel, ankle, knee, hip, the whole right leg. Awareness in the left foot, the toes, the sole of the foot, heel, ankle, knee, hip, the whole left leg. Both feet together. Both legs together. The entire lower body held by the ground beneath you. Feel the back of the body, the back of the head, the shoulder blades, the spine, the back of the ribs, the pelvis, the backs of the legs, the whole back body receiving support. Feel the front of the back body, the face, the throat, the chest, the belly. The whole front body free to soften at its own pace. And now sense the whole body together, one field of sensation. Breathing, listening, resting. The whole body here. And perhaps you can sense somewhere in the body that remains a little ahead of the present moment. A place that is preparing, watching, holding on, trying to predict what comes next. There's no need to make it let go. This part learned that anticipation could be useful. And just meet this part with kindness and let it know, for this breath you do not have to know. And imagine now that you can place all the plans, rehearsals and unfinished questions beside you for a little while. Not throwing them away, simply set them down within reach. The past can remain behind you without being solved in this moment. And the future can remain ahead without being entered Yet. And here you are in the small living interval between them. That's right. And now imagine the nesting place of a swallow. High in the sheltered eaves of an old building. A small opening onto an enormous sky. Inside the familiar enclosure and outside, air, light and distance. And see a young swallow at the opening. The ledge doesn't extend into the sky. There is no path laid out in front of it, no solid ground rising to meet the next step. And when the bird leaves the nest, there's an interval in which support disappears before flight. Is fully felt and the swallow drops and it meets air. Gravity, movement, instinct, wings opening into what is here. You don't have to imagine yourself falling. Simply notice the swallow discovering that the unknown is not the same as nothing. The air was present before the wings could feel it. And the wings were present before the bird had proof of flight. And just sense the breath moving through your own body like air beneath a wing. The inhale widening and the exhale softening, Helping you meet this moment of your life. Trust doesn't mean that every person will catch you. It doesn't mean that every moment will be comfortable or that preparation no longer has value. It may simply mean trusting that you can arrive here and notice what is here and use what is here and remain in relationship with yourself while the next moment unfolds. Perhaps you meet this moment, perhaps you walk in on it. Oh, hello. What has been quietly happening here while the mind was somewhere else? The breath moving, the surface supporting sound appearing and dissolving life continuing its strange ordinary dance. And perhaps just for a few breaths, you allow the moment to lead. No need to anticipate the next step. Just feel this inhale and this exhale and this point of contact, the sound and this small movement of life. Returning now to the intention you chose at the beginning of this practice. Repeating your own words inwardly, now three times. Just allow the feeling of these words to settle below thought into the breath, into the body, into this experience. And let the image of the swallow

[Ashley DePuy]

in the open sky begin to see,

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

often returning awareness to the body resting here. Feel the surface beneath you and notice the room around you, the temperature of the air, the sounds arriving. Begin to wiggle your fingers and toes and maybe turn your head gently from side to side. Stretch in any way that feels welcome. Take all the time you need. There's no need to arrive before your body does. And when the moment feels right and not a moment before, you can feel free to gently open your eyes. Returning to the room, returning to the day, and perhaps carrying a little more trust in your ability to meet the life that is already here.

[Ashley DePuy]

Thank you so much for joining me

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

for this week's mindful Monday and taking a trust fall into the medicine of presence itself.

[Ashley DePuy]

And next week I'll be introducing something

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

completely new within my from mask to map work. My nine adaptation patterns.

[Ashley DePuy]

Nine archetypal protective roles that help us

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

understand who we learn to become in order to belong, stay safe and keep going.

[Ashley DePuy]

And I've developed this nine style reflective

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

framework through my research and client work. Personal experience, exploring the strategies we may have learned in order to belong, stay safe, and keep going. These are compassionate ways of understanding the protective intelligence inside of our patterns and recognizing where those adaptations may now be, asking too much from our identity capacity, relationships, or sense of direction. And we'll begin exploring what shaped them and what strengths they carry, and what

[Ashley DePuy]

becomes possible when adaptation is no longer confused with identity.

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

Until then, may you notice the ground when the ground is here, and may

[Ashley DePuy]

you feel the air when the ground falls away.

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

And may you discover that you do

[Ashley DePuy]

not need to predict every moment in

[Co-host or Meditation Guide]

order to dance with your life. And as always, remember we are all just walking each other home.

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[Ashley DePuy]

Thanks for listening. Support Autistic led media through Autistic Culture plus and enjoy bonus content, early episodes and ad free listening. Visit autisticculture supercast.com to learn more.