Tourette’s Syndrome, Tics & Me: Paul Stevenson’s Neurodivergent Journey

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The Neurodivergent Experience

Episode: “Tourette’s Syndrome, Tics & Me: Paul Stevenson’s Neurodivergent Journey”

Hosts: Jordan James & Simon Scott
Guest: Paul Stevenson
Date: May 13, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This powerful, in-depth episode features Paul Stevenson—international speaker, author, lived experience ambassador at Genius Within, and advocate for neurodivergence. Paul shares his journey growing up undiagnosed with Tourette’s, ADHD, and more; his path to self-understanding and acceptance; and his work in empowering others through speaking, mentoring, and creativity. The hosts and Paul dig deep into masking, trauma, the education system, and the nuanced reality of living with tics in a neurotypical world, offering both validation and practical inspiration for the neurodivergent community.

---

Key Discussion Points

1. Growing Up Undiagnosed: The “Naughty Boy Syndrome”

[06:06]

• Paul describes his 1960s/70s childhood, where conditions like ADHD, autism, and Tourette’s were misunderstood. Instead of support, kids were punished and labeled as “naughty.”
• He masked constantly, landed in the “remedial class,” and internalized labels—“class clown, inherently evil, naughty child”—despite high intelligence.
• “It wasn’t until I found out what was wrong with me that I found out what was right with me.” (Paul, 11:55)

2. Adult Onset, Trauma, and Diagnosis Delays

[07:59]

• Paul’s tics exploded after losing two friends and enduring cumulative trauma.
• Initially, doctors said he was “too old” to be diagnosed with Tourette’s, not recognizing that he’d masked minor tics as “habits” (e.g., head-jerking explained away as flipping his hair).
• “Your little bunny nose… it’s not. It’s a tic.” (Paul, 10:30)

3. The Isolation & Stigma of Visible Tics

[12:58]; [15:15]

• As tics escalated, Paul withdrew to protect his young children from ridicule.
• His search for answers led him to connect with John Davidson (Tourette’s advocate), who became a mentor and friend.
• Paul shares a humorous story of “stalking” John—but reframes this as classic neurodivergent directness.
• John’s key advice: “You’ve got to embrace the condition… look for the positives.” (John Davidson’s advice relayed by Paul, 17:39)
• Fighting tics only made things worse; embracing and finding peace was transformative.

4. Building Community & Sharing Lived Experience

[21:27]; [22:13]

• Discovering he wasn’t alone—through retreats, group sharing, and the power of community—was healing.
• Paul now mentors, does talks, and creates workshops emphasizing that tics are just one part of a much fuller person.
• “The sense of community and sharing skills, it’s like building your tribe… it’s the way I found healing.” (Simon, 22:13)

5. Creativity & Photography as Therapy

[23:46]; [24:49]

• Paul, once an artist before tremors set in, found unexpected peace when he picked up photography:
  • “I noticed… I haven’t ticked. Maybe it’s because I’m using my camera and it’s like a mask—I’m hid behind it. But then, editing photos, I had that same peace.” (Paul, 24:49)
• He staged a photography exhibition in a library—overcoming fears of public spaces with tics, and using it to educate others.
• This led to media appearances including the National Geographic documentary “Taboo Tourette’s” (now searchable as “Three men with Tourette’s go on holiday”).
  • “The irony of Tourette’s guy doing an exhibition in a library… the worst place you can go!” (Paul, 25:09)

6. Discovering and Nurturing Strengths

[28:18]; [31:03]

• On “Employable Me,” Paul met psychologist Nancy Doyle, who helped him uncover his strengths: strong spatial awareness, visual thinking, and memory.
• He learned that having struggled to find employment was often due to lack of understanding and confidence, not lack of ability.
• “Impostor syndrome” initially dogged his career—until he started reframing his differences as assets.

7. The Systemic Barriers: Misunderstanding in Education & Medicine

[39:09]; [41:58]

• Paul discusses disastrous lack of support for neurodivergent kids:
  • Teachers, misunderstanding tics, exclude or punish children for “disruption.”
  • “Ticks aren’t intentional. There’s no malice, no intent to upset… once you get that, then the tics are no longer a problem… What we want is support, understanding, and acceptance.” (Paul, 41:58)
• Critique of medical professionals and their negative framing:
  • “All they wanted to do was shut me up… they couldn’t see the individual, or the creativity.” (Paul, 37:41)
  • Antipsychotic medication dulled him, but wasn’t what he needed.

8. The Power and Nuance of Language

[42:07]

• Societal overreaction to “swearing” tics (coprolalia) is explored.
  • “If I was to replace [a swear] with ‘smeg’ or ‘biscuit’… people would still say, ‘oh, you are swearing.’ It’s just words. Get over it!” (Jordan, 42:26)

9. Therapeutic Work and Changing the Workplace (Genius Within)

[51:45]

• Paul describes his work as a lived experience ambassador with Genius Within:
  • Individualized accommodations for employees—like noise-cancelling headphones or flexible hours—can make all the difference.
  • Genius Finder assessment identifies both strengths and personalized strategies.
  • “Rather than your challenges being a problem, there are solutions to these challenges and it’s personal to each individual.” (Paul, 55:48)
• Coaching and peer support reframes anxiety and self-limiting beliefs.

10. Creativity as Coping: The “Capturing Creativity” Workshop

[63:01]; [67:31]

• Paul started workshops giving kids cameras—focused on noticing their environment, finding peace, and self-acceptance rather than technical skills.
• “Don’t delete photographs on your first viewing. The whole point is not to be critical about yourself.” (Paul, 67:31)
• Tools like Snapseed make creativity accessible; the process provides respite from tics and hyperactivity.

11. Advocacy, Representation, & Film (“I Swear”) and Writing

[71:33]

• Paul’s cameo in “I Swear”—a film with many real actors with Tourette’s—he felt seen and valued.
• Maxine Peake and Robert Aramayo (the lead actor) are lauded for their understanding and commitment to representation.
• “One of my favorite acting choices… how Jon sees himself in the mirror throughout the film, and how he views himself… it’s incredible.” (Simon, 74:00)

12. Early Intervention, Empathy, and Paying it Forward

[80:35]; [83:06]; [90:25]

• Argues for flipping the education system “on its head” with positive, cognitive-based assessments at age 12—empowering kids with knowledge of their strengths.
• Paul’s children’s book “My Ticks and Me” (and forthcoming “My Busy Brain and Me”) aims to foster understanding and reduce stigma from preschool onward.
  • A real-life example: Grace, age 8, inspired by the book, fundraised to buy copies for every school in her Scottish county.
• “All I did and all I’m doing, all my life… is not about me, it’s about how many doors I’ve opened for people to walk through themselves.” (Paul, 91:00)
• The importance of lived experience and making even “a small difference”—encouraging all listeners to use their voice.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It wasn’t until I found out what was wrong with me that I found out what was right with me.” (Paul, 11:55)
• “You’ve got to embrace the condition… look for the positives.” (John Davidson via Paul, 17:39)
• “You should enjoy your childhood… you shouldn’t be excluded from things… we can change it by using our lived experience along with professional medical experience to educate people.” (Paul, 19:16)
• “[Tics] aren’t intentional, there’s no malice, there’s no intent to upset or offend… Once you get that in your head and that understanding, then the tics are no longer a problem and it’s a win-win.” (Paul, 41:58)
• “Photography has paid off. It’s been a gift… It was the first thing that helped me discover that creativity plays a big part for respite from Tourette’s syndrome…” (Paul, 67:50)
• “If you can support or change the life of one person, then you’ve done a good job.” (Paul, 93:41)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:06] – Childhood, masking, and 1960s “Naughty Boy Syndrome”
• [07:59] – The trauma-activated explosion of tics and the diagnostic journey
• [12:58] – Stigma, family protection, and the mentor John Davidson
• [21:27] – Building community and peer support for healing
• [24:49] – Photography and creativity as therapy for tics
• [31:03] – Strengths-based psychology, “Employable Me”
• [41:58] – How schools misunderstand tics; the call for understanding
• [51:45] – Accommodations at work; the Genius Within approach
• [63:01] – “Capturing Creativity” photography workshops for young people
• [71:33] – Experience acting in “I Swear” and authentic representation
• [80:35] – Reimagining education: empower, don’t punish
• [90:25] – The impact of a children’s book, small acts changing lives
• [93:41] – “If you can help or change one person’s life, job done.”

---

Tone and Takeaways

Warm, candid, humorous, occasionally raw—this episode balances personal vulnerability with truly practical hope. The conversation flows with stories, frequent laughter, and compassionate authenticity among peers.

Major Takeaways:

• Lived experience matters as much as medical expertise in understanding neurodivergence.
• Creativity and community are critical sources of healing.
• Acceptance—not just of tics, but of the whole person—enables strengths to emerge.
• Small acts of advocacy and empathy can ripple out to change lives.

---

Resources & Further Information

• Genius Within: Offers workplace coaching, assessment, and support for neurodivergent adults.
• Paul Stevenson’s Books: “My Ticks and Me” (available via Tourette associations), “My Busy Brain and Me” upcoming.
• Documentaries: “Three men with Tourette’s go on holiday” (National Geographic), “Employable Me”
• Film: “I Swear” – for authentic representation of Tourette’s.

---

Transcript

[Chase Sapphire Reserve Announcer]

The day begins at the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club. At Boston Logan Airport. You get the clam chowder in San Diego, it's Tostadas New York Espresso Martini. It's 10:00am why not? It's the quiet before your next flight. The shower that resets your day. The menu that lets you know where you are. This is access to over 1300 airport lounges and every Sapphire Lounge by the club. And one card that gets you in Chase Sapphire Reserve now even more rewarding.

[Paul Stevenson]

Learn [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan, Chase bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval.

[Sydney Sweeney / Sophie James / Ella Langley (various ads)]

Hey, it's Sydney Sweeney. SID for short. For summer. I'm in the mood for comfortable. What am I wearing? Where am I going? What's the vibe? The short answer? American Eagle shorts. They're cute and go with everything. They just work. It's Sid for short. An American Eagle for summer. Shop my pics [e-mail] Most people don't

[Aura Advertisement Voice]

realize how much of their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from records and the Internet, then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where Aura comes in. Aura actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the Dark web put. But Aura goes beyond data protection. With one app, you get a vpn, antivirus, password manager, spam, call protection, Dark Web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance. All backed by 24. 7 US based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or even just a vpn. Aura gives you all of it together at the same price. Competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial [e-mail] safety protect yourself [e-mail] safety.

[Jordan James]

Welcome to the neurodivergent Experience Podcast. A podcast where we share the lived experiences of neurodivergent people to help create a better understanding for our community.

[Simon Scott]

Join us every week as we bring you honest, raw and inspiring conversations with specialists, advocates and individuals who know exactly what it's like to live the neurodivergent experience.

[Jordan James]

I'm Jordan James, a neurodivergent specialist, father of neurodivergent children, husband to a neurodivergent wife, and author of the AUTISTIC Experience. And I'm joined by my best friend. Friend.

[Simon Scott]

I'm Simon Scott. I'm an autistic ADHD broadcaster, actor and advocate. Join us as we journey into unraveling the Neurodivergent experience.

[Jordan James]

Hello. Hello and welcome to the Neurodivergent Experience. Everybody listening. You lovely, lovely people. Scotty, how are you?

[Simon Scott]

I'm good. I still don't know if zinc is allergic. Well, you know.

[Jordan James]

Oh, people can be allergic to zinc.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. Still. Still doing the research.

[Jordan James]

Quick update on the zinc.

[Simon Scott]

Sorry. If anybody that's like, what's going on? This was the last episode where I got fired for not being a zinc scientist.

[Chase Sapphire Reserve Announcer]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

Useless. Unbelievable. Anyway, yeah, yeah, well, I've let him back. I've let him back. Despite his lack of zinc knowledge.

[Simon Scott]

I have the logins to everything.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Plus he does, all of. He has his uses. Plus he's very, very lovely.

[Simon Scott]

Thank you.

[Jordan James]

But anyway, apart from that zinc stuff, taking my zinc every day. Working is still working, dude. No existential crisis. Feeling really good. The other day I spent five hours in a gardens just like this place called Nyman's that is near where I live. I took my camera and I was just walking around and I did some forest pictures and then I went into the gardens and I just. Do you know what? I sat on a bench and for half an hour I sat on this bench looking over the South Downs. Beautiful scene. And there was a bush with some flowers in front of me and it was just packed, packed full of bees on this rhododendron bush. And I just got my long lens out and I was sitting and I was just taking pictures of bees. I don't know if I'm going to share them. I don't know if I'm going to edit them. I have no idea what I'm going to do with them. I haven't even taken them off my camera and put them onto my laptop. I haven't done it. I was just enjoying taking pictures of bees. I was like, how cool are bees?

[Simon Scott]

The power of zinc.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. I'm just. All I'm saying is I feel. I feel really, really good, but I feel doubly as good because we have an amazing guest. Amazing.

[Simon Scott]

Yep. Really, really excited. Thank you so much, Paul, for joining us. I've got. Paul Stevenson here is a lived experience ambassador at Genius, within which we'll learn more about. He's an international speaker, an author and advocate for neurodivergence and inclusion, which is widely recognized for his work raising awareness and driving meaningful Change for people living with Tourette syndrome, ADHD, and other neurodivergent conditions. And listen to this, guys. In 2025, Paul received the Ambassador Award from the European Society for the Study of Tourette Syndrome at their international conference in Athens, ulala. And in 2024, Paul was named in the Shortrust Disability Power 100 in. In recognition of his impact as a disability. Change game changer, change maker. He's an absolute rock star, and if he was in Top Trumps, he'd be right up there. So, Paul, thank you so much for joining us today.

[Paul Stevenson]

It's a pleasure. Thank you very much for having me. I'm very excited, you know.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, I'm, I'm pleased. That's, that's, that's, that's awesome. So I'm very intrigued, Paul, about sort of you as a person. So before your diagnosis, and I'm sure a lot of people will relate to this. What, what was growing up like for you?

[Paul Stevenson]

Pretty, pretty hectic. So, you know, I'm 63 this year, so I was born in the 60s and as you know, ADHD, autism, Tourette syndrome, and lifelong conditions. But back then, nobody had a name for it. Well, they did have a name, and it were Naughty Boy syndrome, where we were severely punished for manifestations of the conditions that we live with. So I've had a pretty chaotic education.

[Jordan James]

Hey.

[Paul Stevenson]

And it's funny because I remember doing a talk to a bunch of parents and teachers, and this guy put his hand up and he says, when I were a lad, there were no such thing as my dad had a belt and there were no such thing as adhd. And everybody looked around at him as, you know, in discussed. And I said, to be truthful, he's got a point. Because we. You can't beat it out of a child, but you can beat it in to the point where we know we're different. And unbeknownst to me, I was masking and I masked all my school life. So in the last three years at high school, I was in what they call the remedial class and left with no qualifications. You know, ADHD were very, very prevalent in my life. So, you know, you just get on with things and you get punished. And because of that, you start carrying a lot of luggage, a lot of trauma. My working life was chaotic. You know, I'd last maybe 18 months in a job. I never, I never was out of work, but I just worked to earn money. I didn't work for any fulfillment. I realized that I got Tourette Syndrome and I experienced some ptsd, lost a friend. I won't go into detail because it's pretty triggering. And basically had a breakdown.

[Jordan James]

Hey.

[Paul Stevenson]

And then another friend passed away. He took his life. Oh, no. And hey, at his funeral, I started making small phonic noises like, hey, hey, hey. My shoulders jumping. And I thought, this is, this is me dealing with, you know, the emotions of losing a friend. But within three weeks, I've gone from making those small phonic noises to full blown coprolalia. Shouting, swearing, having tick attacks. Hey. Dislocating my shoulders and my knees.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, my God.

[Paul Stevenson]

And I'm like, what the heck is happening to me?

[Simon Scott]

And that all started in that moment.

[Paul Stevenson]

It's within three weeks of recognizing major ticks, if you know what I mean. So I was unaware that I had Tourette syndrome, so I went for a diagnosis. You don't fit the criteria, Paul. You're 46 years old. You've got to be under 18. Yeah. And you've got to like either have a phonic tick and a water tick present and have you had ticks all your life? I'm like, no, no, no, no. But then when I talked to my parents about it, they went, oh, yeah, you used to go, put your head back. Coughing noises.

[Jordan James]

So that is the same as what mine were. My. Mine was like, yeah, swallowing in, head

[Simon Scott]

movement and shoulders, shoulder movement.

[Jordan James]

I would like do this all the time, you know, throwing my head back.

[Paul Stevenson]

And I think, I think the thing is though, back in the day, you rationalize I had one where I threw my head back.

[Jordan James]

Yeah.

[Paul Stevenson]

But when I did it, I used to have hair, you see, that came down to her ear. I used to throw my hair back at the same time. So that's how take explained.

[Jordan James]

That's exactly what I did. I had long bangs, you know, like a center parting, longer hair. And I would. Yeah, like, just like. Yeah, I'd throw my hair back. And then obviously kids would then mock me for doing it because I thought I was like, you know, hiding it. My, my tick I was hiding behind, you know, swiping my hair back. But because I was doing it so much that obviously kids noticed that and then just took the piss out of me.

[Paul Stevenson]

I mean, you stand out.

[Jordan James]

Yeah.

[Paul Stevenson]

Whether. I mean, I didn't, I didn't know they were ticks. I really didn't know. Why'd you do that? Because my nose is itching and I always had a reason as to why I did certain things, including my throat.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. I just thought I'd develop bad habits.

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah. Yeah, that's what they are.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, that's what. That's what my parents used to call them, actually. They used to call it a habit.

[Paul Stevenson]

Your little bunny knows when you go, it's his bunny nose. And it's not. It's a tick.

[Jordan James]

Yeah.

[Simon Scott]

That's why I hold my hand over my face a lot of the time, Paul, because that's. I just can't keep my face. Yeah, it's constantly moving.

[Paul Stevenson]

We do this. I mean, that's. That's like pretty complex masking in the sense that, you know, physically we're doing something to cover up. But the other stuff, with the adhd, you know, my school reports said, do not be misled by Paul's high attainment level. He does nothing but daydream. Class clown, inherently evil. You know, just a naughty child. And. And that report, I came second out of maybe 30 kids in a class. So you'd look at a report like that now and you'd think, all right, so this. This. This pupil, he's done nothing but daydream. Look out the window, joking and laughing all the time. How's he absorbed all that information? How is he able to put it down on paper? You wouldn't. You'd be thinking, great point. Yeah. But back then, it were like, you were dismissed. Remedial class. That's it. So I left school basically not properly being able to read and write. So I wasn't. I couldn't spell, and I was absolutely terrible at punctuation. But there were certain little things that shone through, little glimmers of my strengths that I've got with my neurodivergent brain. But all that didn't come until I got my diagnosis. So it wasn't until I found out what was wrong with me that I found out what was right with me, if you know what I mean.

[Jordan James]

Well put. Yeah, no, I had the same journey. You know, I. When I was diagnosed, I. First of all, I was like, oh, that's a great answer. At least I understand, because, you know, that neurodivergent desperation need, like, why is this happening now? Then I found out why, you know, I was always like, you know, the outsider and, you know, ostracizing and stuff. And then I ended up hating it, thinking, okay, this is the reason for the bad things. And then it was obviously, it was doing photography that helped me discover the positive side of neurodivergence, which is why I then went on to. To share my journey and do very similar to what you have done with, like, doing talks and obviously with this podcast. And I wrote a book and stuff. So, you know.

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah, I think. I think with myself, I didn't want to leave the house when. When my ticks got that extreme, very ridiculing condition, you know, like my arms would bring up right up to my head and it, like I said, dislocating my knees, making noises. I were embarrassed to leave the house and I. My. Our children at the time was seven, down to about. Youngest was six month old. Four. Four children. And I didn't want them to be bullied, you know, oh, we've seen your beep, beep of a dad downtown dude. You know, what's up with him? Has he got this wrong with him? So I pretty much like withdrew. I wanted answers, I wanted to understand. And that's where I reached out to John Davidson. Because just at the time of my ticks exploding from me, I swear, I can't help it. Aired in 2009. I'd seen it in the February, and I'm like, this is so funny. Oh, you know, wow. These guys are like comedy classics. And sorry, my kids are still at home. Sorry about that. Hey. Just totally throws me. Yeah. So. And then in the march after Bill's funeral, when the ticks had kicked off, I saw it again and I looked at it through with a different perspective as to this is me. Wow. You know, so armed with all that information, went back, I got a diagnosis and John was the first. Well, Dottie actually was the first person I reached out to. And I just thought I found kindred spirits. And I want answers. Why are my ticks like this? And the answers that I got were not what I expected, really, because where do I go? I mean. So the diagnosis for a start. Congratulations, Mr. Stevenson, you've got Tourette Syndrome. There's the door. Go and live your life. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna minute Paul, come back. I've got some medication for you. All right? And that. That's. Is this gonna be the rest of my life? And I didn't want it to be. I couldn't. I'd had a window cleaning round and obviously due to the ticks, I'd fallen a few times and I couldn't do that anymore. So I was in a position where I'm unemployed, feeling very, very low. And I thought, there's got to be something. So I put it to John. Funny story is that when we're doing talks together, he introduced me, he said, this is Paul, Paul's best mate. He used to stalk me. I'm like, you what? What? And he says, so the story is I, I would arrange to meet at Langley Community Center. That's Portra, the movie. And we're meeting at 12 o'. Clock. And I don't know if you guys all resonate or connect with this. I always like to get places very, very early to make sure nothing's wrong.

[Jordan James]

Oh, yeah.

[Paul Stevenson]

So 10 o', clock, I'm at this community center and I thought, do you know what? Instead of John walking up to meet me up there, I'll go and pick him up. Because I've seen where he lives, I've seen it on tv. Yeah, no, that's, that's a little bit stalky, dude.

[Simon Scott]

That's such a divergent way of meeting.

[Jordan James]

If I was meeting someone who I was like doing a photography lesson, they turned up at my house, I'd be like,

[Simon Scott]

so do you also know his breakfast order as well?

[Paul Stevenson]

Anyway, the story, the story goes. It's actually, he's written it in the book. And he said this because I was about, maybe about 17, 18, storm. I used to work out quite a lot. And I'm knocking on his door and he peered out behind his curtains. I didn't see anything. Who the heck is that six foot tall ballerina on steroids? Because I'm like, what are you jumping about?

[Simon Scott]

And I'm going, yeah, there's a fridge

[Paul Stevenson]

freezer at the moment. John, John. And he's inside going, I'm nodding, I'm nodding, you know, ticking back to me. So anyway, I went up to center, I met him up there, he adds a little bit to the story. And I goes, so, So I go, listen, folks, I didn't stalk him. It's just part of my neural divergent brain. I thought, this works, I'll do this. And John goes, and he also stole some underpants off my washing line. And I went, you liar.

[Jordan James]

I never did.

[Paul Stevenson]

And then as it finishes, our talk finishes, I said, by the way, they're still on sale on ebay if you're interested. But the underpants bits, all fabricated. Obviously underpants are fabricated because they're made out of fabric, but hey. Yep, So I met John. Hey, I went off on a tangent then, didn't I?

[Simon Scott]

You're in the right place, Paul.

[Paul Stevenson]

Don't worry about.

[Jordan James]

I was going to say that. That is literally this entire podcast.

[Paul Stevenson]

I said to John, what do I do? And he said, you've got to embrace the condition. And I know, crazy. How can I embrace such a ridiculing condition? I said, I'm in agony, you know, my knees dislocate my shoulders do. I've got permanent neck injury, which I have now. Obviously at the time it was relatively new, but I was still in a lot of pain. And I said, how do you embrace something like that? He said, will you look for the positives? And I'm like, well, I'll be damned if there's any positives in this. And as time went on, I started to notice that the more I fought it, the worse it got. You know, you, you can't fight Tourette syndrome because it's a, it's an internal struggle and if you're angry, if you're upset, it just only get. It gets worse. So I just thought, well, it's a lifelong condition, can't do nothing about it. It's here, let's try and make a future. And that future was being mentored by John, following him, driving him to places to do talks, inviting me to join in his talks, working at the weekend retreats that we, we did. We had two a year, Easter and October. And we had. Initially it was just for adults, but we thought if someone asked me, do you suffer from Tourette syndrome? I'll say, no, I don't suffer at all, but my, my friends do, my wife does, my mum does, you know, and it's a family thing. So we thought, we got this idea of getting families to come because that's who's involved. You know, it doesn't just affect me as an individual, it's everybody around me and we're talking to people, we're sharing techniques, strategies on how to get through things. At the time, people didn't believe in leg drop ticks or there's no such thing, tick attacks or. No, they're just anger and rage. But because we're all talking together and sharing these experiences, we're able to break down a very complex neurological condition by using fundamental techniques to get through. So one of mine is that if I, wherever my tick attack starts, I have to move myself away from that area because something's triggered it either, like I said before, it might be light, conflicting noise. I've got a designated safe place in the house that I've already planned out and the strategy is, is that my wife will open the door for me and as soon as these tick attacks are coming on, I'll make my way to my safe place. And I've been able to share that with parents to young people who have ticket acts as well. And they've been really successful. You know, they tailor, make it to their own needs. But I think by helping and giving is great therapy for me. I get passionate about it. You probably can tell the more I talk about it, the less ticky I get, because I've got that passion inside me. I want to make a difference. I don't want people to have to go through what we've pro. Experienced in. In life. You know, it. It shouldn't be like that. You know, you should enjoy your childhood. You should be getting an education. You shouldn't be dis. Excluded from things. And how can we change this? We can change it by using our lived experience along with professional medical experience to educate people. Because I think at this moment in time now, we've got a saturation of awareness. You know, it's awareness month. Yay. Are you aware. Are you aware of Tourette syndrome? Yeah, I'm aware of Tourette syndrome. Do you know what Tourette Syndrome is? Yeah, I know what Tourette Syndrome is. Do you know it works in someone's life? Well, yeah, they shout this were they make funny noises, blink their eyes. Yeah. But do you know what's going on inside here? Do you know this young person's school day starts on Sunday, not on Monday morning, because they know what they're gonna have to go through every day with this condition.

[Jordan James]

Oh, God. Oh, God. Oh, that went through me as soon as you said that. I now have goosebumps and my tummy feels funny. Wow, you've just. You've just hit the net. Oh, my God.

[Simon Scott]

You know what? You've said so much there, Paul, that has resonated with me. You know, like discussing, like, lived experience and community and learning to live with your neurodivergence. Like that is what we try and do here is the whole reason that we did this podcast is so that I could learn from Jordan in a similar way. I imagine you've. You've learned so much from John, but recording those conversations and sharing them with people, it's like we do a talk every single week. And that sense of community and finding things in common and sharing skills, it's like building your tribe, isn't it?

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah, definitely.

[Simon Scott]

It really is the way that I found healing.

[Chase Sapphire Reserve Announcer]

This is a vacation with Chase Sapphire Reserve. The butler, the spa. This is the edit. A collection of handpicked luxury hotels and a $500 edit credit chase Sapphire Reserve now even more rewarding.

[Aura Advertisement Voice (alternate)]

Learn [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by

[Paul Stevenson]

JP Morgan, Chase bank and a member

[Aura Advertisement Voice (alternate)]

FDIC subject to credit approval. Most people don't realize how much of their personal information is being bought and sold Every day, data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the Internet, then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where Aura comes in. Aura actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But Aura goes beyond data protection. With one app you get a vpn, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, dark web monitoring and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance. All backed by 24, 7 US based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or just a vpn. Aura gives you all of it together at the same price. Competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial [e-mail] safety. Protect yourself [e-mail] safety.

[Paul Stevenson]

So I'd jump into the photography, how I came across into photography. My wife bought me a camera. I used to paint. I used to be good at art. I've got a condition called essential tremors and as I've got older I can no longer paint. But Carol said you really, I know that you admire certain, you know, landscape photography, wildlife photography. I'm a big fan of bees, which you mentioned earlier on.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I love a bee and you

[Paul Stevenson]

know, just, just at one with nature. So I went out with my camera and I took photographs. Came back, they weren't very good. But I found out because I've not been a trained photographer, made a lot of mistakes and in making them mistakes ended up getting some really good photographs that look different, you know. Have you photoshopped that? No, I haven't photoshopped it actually. I'd had it in my pocket and as it came out, the condensation put a mist over this, the lens and you've got a fantastic looking.

[Simon Scott]

It's like an artistic accident.

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah. And, and that's what ended up happening with, with me photography. You know, I got the eye for the image. I didn't have the technological know how. But then I noticed something, I thought, hang on a minute, I haven't ticked. I've been out all this time and I haven't ticked. Or maybe it's because I'm using my camera and it's like a mask, I'm hid behind it. People look always a photographer, you know, rather than look over, what's that bloke doing? Why is he Moving about. And I thought, oh, it must be because it's a mask and I can hide behind it. But then when I got back home editing my photographs, I had that same piece. I'm like, wow, what's the connection? I've got? I've got to find out. There must be a connection, because every daily activity, my ticks are like that. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, trying to get out. But when I'm doing photography, I've just got complete silence. And I've never had this all my life. So I thought, what I'll do, I'll use this to my advantage. I'm in a holiday town. I thought, I'll put on a photo, a photography display of all the images that I've took. And because I don't really think things through and I've got adhd, I thought, right, I found a venue. I'll do it there. The local library. Not. Not the place where people with Tourette's go to, you know, Shh. Oh, no. But I attracted a lot of attention. People came to see it. I explained who I were. I said, listen, you might know me, you might have seen me, but over this period of time, my Tourette's has gone so bad. Please don't be afraid, don't think I'm drunk. If you've got any worries about me, come and talk to me. You know, if you don't ask questions, you make assumptions. And I just want to start educating people about Tourette's syndrome. Through that came a newspaper article. Because of the irony of Tourette's. Tourette's guy does a photography exhibition in a library, you know, well, it's the worst place you can go. And then on the back of that, people started asking me, do you want to be in a documentary? So we. National Geographic contacted us.

[Jordan James]

Oh, yeah.

[Paul Stevenson]

A lovely lady from Australia with a producer and Dora. And they. We agreed to do it. So there were John Chopper and myself. And with. The idea behind the story was we were looking for a place where we could take young people camping. A place that had accept us for who we are and not judges. Because our previous experiences are like, we're gonna have to ask you to leave. You know, you're making too much noise, you've upset people. Yeah, so, yeah, we did that. We did that documentary. It went viral in America and on the continent.

[Jordan James]

Oh, so what's the name of that?

[Paul Stevenson]

Well, it was called Taboo Tourette's.

[Jordan James]

When? When was that?

[Paul Stevenson]

Well, in 2010, I think. 2010. Anyway, if you go online, you'll not find it under that name now because it's famous as Three men with Tourette's go on holiday. So.

[Simon Scott]

Well, definitely check that out. That sounds. Sounds really good.

[Paul Stevenson]

So, yeah, we got that.

[Jordan James]

Sorry, I just typed into my phone, I put three men with. And the first thing it came up with, Tourette's on holiday.

[Paul Stevenson]

11 million.

[Jordan James]

Three men with Tourette's on holiday.

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Jordan James]

It's only 14 minutes long. Just that one bit.

[Paul Stevenson]

It was. It was a good experience.

[Jordan James]

Sorry, I just. Adhd.

[Paul Stevenson]

That's all right. Let's play it through while we're on the. Yeah. And then I made another documentary called Employable Me. I don't know if you've heard of that. So the idea behind the story was that we'd find people who are. Who can't find employment because of neurological disability or difficulties and we'll find them a job and stuff. And on that documentary, I met a lovely lady called Nancy Doyle. Hey, ro. Who's now my boss. And at the time she was a psychologist and she was doing a cognitive assessment, positive one on me. And for the first time ever, I found out I'd got a lot of strengths with my neurodivergent brain, which was a surprise to me because basically it wasn't working properly. And that's why I've had a chaotic life. But to find out that I had strengths that could help me and push me further on was a proper epiphany, you know, like spatial awareness, visual thinker. I'd add glimmers of it. You know, I had a job once where working in a warehouse and we had to put stuff away and the computer selected where we put the product and there were like, you know, gallons of paints and stuff. BALLOT SPINS so you an order. I mean, a, it'd get produced, it'd come into our warehouse and the computer says, go to B12, there's a spacer. So we'd run it in there and they paid thousands for this system. And I'm like, it's not going to work. Why? I said, well, a quarter of the products are coming here are fast moving and they're in and out within a day. I said, so if this computer's selecting random spaces either and everywhere, you know, the man hours into doing that, it's not going to work. Why don't we just cordon off this section and make that for fast moving? They're like, oh, my days. We just paid thousands of pounds for the.

[Simon Scott]

Out of the box thinking right there, Paul.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I know exactly what that means

[Paul Stevenson]

so the glimmers were there, but I never, I never paid any attention to them. But to find out all these things that Nancy were telling me, you know, I were able to memorize people's mobile phone numbers without writing it down. And they say, are you writing it down? I went, no, no, no, it's all right. Yeah. So lots of things like that. Now I've got to say that I couldn't get work. I tried and tried. I couldn't get it. And I think, you know, people do a lot of discrimination about my disability. And then when I think back about it, I, I think I put myself at the back of the queue, you know, who's going to want to employ somebody like me?

[Jordan James]

But yeah, yeah, that existential dread of just not believing in yourself.

[Paul Stevenson]

And we've had a lifetime of doors closing in our faces so that this is rsd, this is what we expect. But armed with these strengths and Nancy's encouragement, so the program was going down the path where I become a professional photographer. And yeah, that was a great storyline, but the photography was a passion. To, to actually go out there and take photographs for other people wasn't a passion.

[Jordan James]

Dude. I had exactly the same thing. Yeah, when, when I first started doing the photography and I started getting recognized for it and winning awards and stuff, and then people would then ask me to do photography for them. And when I would do it, I, I hated it. I hated it as a job. So people would ask me to do weddings and stuff and I'd be like, I'm not, I'm, I don't, I'm not interested. For a start, I'm a landscape photographer and a wildlife photographer, but I can do portrait. I mean, I can take pictures of anything. But I didn't enjoy it. So if, if you, if you take the joy by making it a job, then it defeats the reason I did it in the first place, which was escaping reality, escaping the work. And I did photography for my mental health and I had bad mental health because of my job. So I just carried on doing my job. And then when I had my spare time just going out and doing photos and, and then like playing around with like the post processing and putting that artistic tint on, on things and also traveling, it got me over my thing. I, I mean, I hate airports, I hate travel, I hate stuff like that. And I, because of that hyper focus of like, oh, I know I want to go and take a picture that the photography gave me that hyper focus to get through really, really difficult moments or difficult Things where my neurodivergence would be a disability, but because of my neurodivergent hyperfocus, that became an ability. Like, I think you mentioned the phrase glimmers.

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

Is that right? Yeah, yeah. I love, I love that it's the glimmers. It's what, What a wonderful word. It's like the Shining.

[Paul Stevenson]

Well, they've always existed in, you know, they've always been there as long as these, you know, ADHD Internet syndrome's always been there. It's just that I wasn't aware of them. And when I became aware, I started using them to my advantage. So come to lockdown, everybody were like, getting laid off. Furloughed. I got employment at the time of making the documentary, Nancy couldn't employ me. Conflict of interest. But she later contacted me and said, do you fancy being an ambassador, a lived experience ambassador? You know, she'd already said to me, you, you've got a way to articulate things. And. And I think that is one of my strengths, that I break very complex things down into very fundamental explanations. So please explain what, what. Where a tick comes from. And it's like, right, okay, well, you know, your basal gap. And I'm like, nah, that's not going to work. I said, you know lottery machines on telly, when they used to shout them out, the balls will be bouncing about inside there. That guy, his job were when that ball came up and he didn't know which ball were coming up, but when it came up, he shouted it out and I went, so that's a bit how my brain works, you know, I don't know what's going to come out my mouth, but when it does come out, like the lottery ball, I shout it out and I just, you know, it's probably inaccurate in a medical sense, but it's a great way to get a point across to people because they can relate to that. Oh, yeah, because he's really, absolutely. He's got no control, really, has he? And I went, no, other than the fact that, you know, he has to shout it out. That's, you know, and he can't control that because that's part of what he does. So, yeah, so I use that lived experience to my advantage. And I got a quite a lot of imposter syndrome at first, which I'm gonna do, you know, And Athens last year when I got the award, I did an hour, an hour long talk in front of medical professionals, you know, doctors, consultants, researchers, and I'm talking to them about Tourette Syndrome. I'M like, oh, this isn't gonna work, you know, and it, but it did work because lived experience plays such a big part now in education. And I think I mentioned, I think

[Jordan James]

it's, I think so. I think it's the most important part because we, we, we do this thing called a hot topic, which, you know, every week we'll, we'll do like an extra show. It's like a little bit of news. And we have so often talked about, oh, this research on neurodivergence or that research on ADHD or that research on autism. And it's always most the time, correlation equals causation, which is not science. And we try and, you know, break it down to, like, the lived experience. And probably have mostly scientists or doctors are wrong about neurodivergence. They don't understand it. And it's always because they start their research from a negative. So they go, okay, this is autism. This autism is a bad thing. This autism is a broken brain. Now let's, let's do research. And I'm like, that's so unscientific. It's so bad because if you're going to research something, start with a blank, start with a neutral palette, and then you build from there. And it's because I had that neutral palette, I was then able to then go on and not see just the negative side of neurodivergence, but also see the positives like you have. And it's because of our lived experiences, because we actually am neurodivergent. We are it. That's why we have a different perspective of it. And this is what a lot of medical professionals, they miserably fail because they're treating us like guinea pigs that they need to research on rather than people who they just need to understand.

[Paul Stevenson]

I've got, Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I, I, the impression I got from the medical fraternity was that for a start, they told me it was a rare condition. I've never seen anybody with Tourette's that this bad. Who's got Tourette's this bad? Like you in. The reality was that he had very little experience of sit, you know, diagnosing people with Tourette's syndrome. And I wasn't the worst case ever, but that isolated me. That made me feel bad. So I was looking for a lead there. What's the lead? And they all, I felt my whole experience, I'm not anti medication by any means, but the anti psychotics that I was prescribed for the first 10 years that I put my trust in the medical fraternity led me to the understanding that all they wanted to do was shut me up. You know, they couldn't see beyond the ticks, they couldn't see the individual, they couldn't see the creativity, they couldn't see that with this brain, whilst it might have a few faults, it's functioning just a different way, it's wired differently and it can achieve such a lot. All they could see were the ticks. Right, let's shut him up, let's put him on antipsychotics or put on lots and lots of weight. Dopamine antagonist, is that the word? Were it fights against the dopamine, stops the dopamine. And, and I didn't need that. You know, obviously with me adhd you didn't need that, you need all the

[Jordan James]

help you can get, you need more dopamine.

[Paul Stevenson]

And I went, right, stop trying to silence me. You know, what is wrong with my ticks? And I found this, I find this in my. When I've been advocating for young people in school. One example, a young guy, I'll not mention his name, but he was struggling, his ticks had increased, they were coming up to his exams, they told him that he weren't going to finish his exams. We're telling him what he couldn't do and what, what wasn't going to happen, instead of saying, let's find a way. So the day that I went into school to advocate in front of the teachers, the guy had been excluded. Why have you excluded him? Well, either he said it was a tick, he told Mr. Harrison to f off. Mr. Harrison said, what did you say? He went F off, F off, F off. And he said the fact that he repeated it that many times means that it wasn't a tick, it was reinforcing. And I went, right, so Tourette's is very, very encourageable. And if you ask somebody what you just ticked the tickle, probably repeated again, it's called Echo Alia and that's what that is. And they're like, all right. So I said, what is the issue? What issue do you have with this young man? Because I've met his mum and dad, he's got a part time job, he's a grafter. What's the issue at school? Well, it's not so much the work, he can do the work, but he's a disruptive influence in the class. And I went, all right, right. So he's wrecking the ambience or the, the quietness in the class. And as I talked to him, I dragged my chair that was by side of me and I dragged it to my side and I leant on it and it made a juddering noise as it went across the floor. And the glass of water that I had, I gulped that down and then banged it down on desk. And then I went, oh, sorry about that. And nobody said anything. I said, you know why I'm apologizing. They went, why? I said, because of the disturbances I've made. But they're not disturbances to you because you know the source of them. You knew that were a chair being pulled across, you knew that were a door shutting, you knew that were a glass being put down. There were no intent, no malice and you know the source of it. So all we have to do now is know that ticks aren't intentional. There's no malice there, there's no intent to upset or offend. And once you get that in your head and that understanding, then the ticks are no longer a problem and it's a win win because the pressure is off the young person now that no one's going to react to my tics. You know, I don't have to try. And so that, that's the thing. Forget about the ticks. Right. You know, let leave that to us to deal with. What we want from you is support, we want understanding and we want acceptance. Because there's so much more to me than maturettes.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. I, I, I, I absolutely think that there is something about society when it comes to swearing off that.

[Paul Stevenson]

There we go.

[Jordan James]

Exactly. And I don't understand why people are so triggered by swearing in my, my head. Because it's just words. And if, if I was to replace with smeg.

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

Or with biscuit.

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

But the intent was still a swear word and it was like, oh, bloody biscuits and a. Yeah, smegan ass. People would still say, oh, you are swearing. I literally had done this when I was like talking to someone. I said, oh, smeg off. And they went, wait, no need to swear at me. I went, what? Smeg is the name of a fridge, by the way, and it's very famous in Red Dwarf. And that's what Red Dwarf did. They literally replace the word fuck with smeg deliberately to make it more family friendly so that people couldn't say. Exactly. So people couldn't do the thing where they're like, oh, you know, cancel that show because it has too much swearing. Smeg was totally reasonable, but literally I said smeg to my sister once and she told me that was a swear word. And to me it's Just words. Because I, I think that if I was ticking and I was saying or doing what, what you were doing, like, like making a dog barking noise or anything like that, I think people are just like, oh, that's Tourette's. But there's something about people when, when Tourette's ends up being a swear word towards someone, that's then the problem. And I'm like, oh, my God. One, like you said, it is not intentional whatsoever. And two, it's just a word. Get over it.

[Paul Stevenson]

I think, I think, like, I mean, obviously the percentage of people that have copper Elliott is the minority in the Tourette's community, but hey, that mechanism's in place. I believe with all of us, the potential for it to increase and decrease. And that's the thing, you know, that's why you've got to find your peace. That's why you've got to find a way to live with Tourette syndrome. That's why when people start accepting that the barking noise, the whistling, the throat clearing is just part of the condition, just forget it. Let us get on with life. Yeah, things are going to improve. And I, I, like I said before, I felt like they wanted to shut me up, but I needed to find inner peace, you know, and then to find out that I've got ADHD as well. So that diagnosis didn't come through till I was 60. Wow.

[Jordan James]

Whoa.

[Paul Stevenson]

Why do you want to diagnose? And it's funny because that were the same thing then, you know, I went through all the questions, different things, and the guy said, you're the most ADHD person that I've ever met. And I'm like, please, please stop telling

[Jordan James]

your I've got competitions.

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah, but stop telling your patients that this is the worst case, because it's not. It doesn't do us any good.

[Simon Scott]

Makes a mountain out of the molehill.

[Paul Stevenson]

Isolates is even more.

[Simon Scott]

It's almost like they don't know who we are, Paul. And how to. And how to speak to us.

[Paul Stevenson]

No, exactly that. I mean, and that that diagnosis were pretty powerful as well because it gave me the ability, like I'd done with Tourette Syndrome, to educate myself about it, read up a lot about it, spoke to a lot of the people. But the healing started to come into place with the ADHD diagnosis. I was able to map back my life at past transgressions and start to forgive myself for who I thought wasn't a very nice person and issues with addiction when I was younger. Finding out our pre programmed to not succeed in Certain areas, you know, in a neurotypical world. And that was like bomb on my soul, honestly. It was so. Well, it helped me carry on, you know, and at 60 year old, what, what's the difference? And I'm like, I need to find solutions. I need to find answers and then I need solutions, I need strategies. I've struggled with this all my life and I want to know that it's not my fault. Do you get me?

[Jordan James]

I. I find that question such, such an odd question that, like, oh, you're in your 60s. Why, why does it matter? You've got this far. I'm like, mate, he's not dead yet. Jesus. Like, 60 isn't dead. My God. So you want him to spend the next 20 or 30 years, you know, fingers crossed. Still not understanding himself, still not receiving. You know, I don't know if you're on methylphenidate. I know it works for me, but even if, you know, whatever, Whatever works for you, works for you. But at the end of the day, just because someone's 60, I mean, they're freaking done for the. For their life. God damn it. People suck, man.

[Paul Stevenson]

Seriously, you know, just go and struggle for the rest of your life.

[Jordan James]

But yeah, screw you, old man. That's what I get from most kids.

[Paul Stevenson]

That's it. No teeth, hey.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, exactly.

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah, so, yeah, that was pretty good. Do you know, we've covered quite a lot, haven't we? Really? In just off your first question.

[Simon Scott]

Now, don't worry. Should we take a little bit of a break? Because I would love to get into Genius Within. I'd like to know a little bit about your book and of course you had a star and role in I Swear as well. So we'll get into that. You're listening to the Neurodivergent Experience. Stay with us. We are talking to Paul Stevenson.

[Chase Sapphire Reserve Announcer]

This is the table, the one with the view. This is how you reserve exclusive tables with Chase Sapphire Reserve. This is your name on the list. This is the chef sending you something he didn't put on the menu. This is 3 times points on dining with Chase Sapphire reserve and a 300 dining credit that covered the citrus pavlova and drinks and the thing you didn't think you liked until you tasted it. Chase Sapphire Reserve now even more rewarding.

[Aura Advertisement Voice (alternate)]

Learn [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by

[Paul Stevenson]

JP Morgan Chase bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval.

[Aura Advertisement Voice]

Most people don't realize how much of their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions pulling details about you from public records and the Internet, then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where Aura comes in. Aura actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the Dark web. But Aura goes beyond data protection. With one app you get a vpn, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, dark web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance, all backed by 24. 7 US based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or even just a vpn. Aura gives you all of it together at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at aura.com safety protect yourself [e-mail] safety

[Ashley Dupuis]

hi everyone, it's Ashley Dupuis here, the in house therapist on the Neurodivergent Experience and host of Mindful Mondays. And if you've been listening to these podcasts and thinking, gosh, I'd love to explore this work more deeply, I'd love to let you know about what's coming next. This September I'll be opening a small group coaching cohort, a gentle, supportive space to explore the kind of work we've been doing here together. So if you've been resonating with the From Mask to Map series or with the deeper themes we've been exploring on Mindful Mondays, this will be a chance to take that work further in community with guidance, reflection and practical tools to help you understand yourself more clearly and move through life with more ease. So if that speaks to something in you, I'd love to hear from you. You can register your interests by emailing [e-mail] and you can also keep an eye out on integrativeiom.co.uk.com where I'll be sharing more details over the coming weeks.

[Sydney Sweeney / Sophie James / Ella Langley (various ads)]

Hi, I'm Sophie James, a neurodivergent mentor with four years of experience supporting neurodivergent individuals. As an autistic and ADHD woman myself, I know firsthand what it's like growing up in a neurotypical world and trying to navigate spaces that weren't built with our brains and mind. Whether you're neurodivergent yourself or supporting a neurodivergent child or teenager, I offer experience led peer mentoring grounded in understanding, connection and neuro affirming support. Together we explore strengths, build confidence, and develop practical ways to navigate life while embracing who you are. If you'd like to learn more about my mentoring work, visit sophiejamesndmentoring.com.

[Simon Scott]

Welcome back to the neurodivergent Experience. Simon here with Jordan as always. But we've been joined by Paul Stevenson, lived experience ambassador at Genius within, an international speaker, award winner, author, advocate. What, what can't you do, Paul? Well, yeah, we've discussed so much in the, in the first section here, but I would love to know more about your work with Genius within and, and the books you've written, Paul.

[Paul Stevenson]

So, yeah, Genius within, absolutely. I found my niche, I really have. You know, it's a shame it's taken so long and I wish I'd have discovered all this earlier on. Well, things wouldn't have worked out the way they worked out. This is, this is how it is. I'm should be retiring in about four years, three years, and I don't want to retire, I want to carry on. I love my job. I love the work that we do. I love the fact that, you know, we're changing the workplace for people. We're making it more, making it more comfortable. And, and we come across people who like, might be up for a disciplinary because they're not working to their optimum strengths. And we'll say to the, the employer, why, why are you thinking of dismissing them? Well, they're not doing what they used to do. And it said, well, this is a person that you employed over maybe 400 other candidates. What's changed? And it's usually not the person, it's the environment. You know, the workplace has moved this, they've installed. And the solutions to empowering that individual aren't expensive. You know, noise reducing headphones, you know, maybe moving your desk away from the window, for instance, as an adhd, you know, that would be the worst place to sit me next to a window because it's 1, 2, 3, you're out the room, bump, gone. And another thing with me, I'm very observant about everything going on around me. So I've always chose to have my back to a wall, you know, because I've got sensory processing issues and then everything's there in front of me. You know, I've not got to keep looking around as to what. So just, I'm just mentioning a few little fundamental things that, that have worked for me, you know, flexible working hours. Right. So when I have a bad tic attack, I can't work you know, I can't, but I can work at other times. You know, I get some of my best ideas on Sunday night, so I'll put, I'll put my hours in then. And I've got that flexibility in work. And this is what genius is all about, is making things work, helping people to find the strengths, support the challenges. Because we do have these. We can't deny that we've got challenges, but putting strategies in place to counteract these is a great thing. And then when an employer takes notice and listens and sees the person, the effect on the individual is fantastic. Because you want to go that extra mile for your bosses. You know, they've shown you shown compassion, they've shown understanding. Yeah, I can do that job. And, you know, it really works. We've got something called the genius finder. And basically it's. It works as a. As an assessment and identifies your strengths, but acknowledges your challenges. But rather than your challenges being a problem, there's solutions to these challenges and it's personal to each individual because you can't make a set of rules from one experience of someone with Tourette's to fit other people with Tourette's. Because we were all different. You know, we're fingerprint different because of the conditions that we live with. So by me answering questions as to do you struggle with such and such a thing, do you find this works for you? Do you find that works for you? I'm answering honestly from my experience with all the conditions I've got. So you get a bespoke readout as to what's going to work for you, what you know, how to improve things for you, how to make your job more fulfilling, how to be, you know, work it to your optimum. So, yeah, it's very fulfilling work. And most of the people I work with, a neurodivergent, which is like, it's a blessing, you know, I found my soul mates and it's more than a job. You know, I feel like I'm in a family.

[Jordan James]

So that's beautiful, man. Is it, Is it just Tourette's that the people that you're helping or is it all sorts of neurodivergent people that genius within?

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah, right across, you know, dyspraxic, dyslexia. In fact, I'm just keep notifications keep popping up from one of my friends who I work with to me, and he's dyspraxic. So we, you know, we, we interact with a lot of different people.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I've got dyspraxia as well.

[Paul Stevenson]

And it's just, it's just, it's just, like I said, it's more than a job.

[Jordan James]

It's so nice to hear that. It's. I, I love. Because I've, I've. Ever since I was doing this, I've been doing this for like 6 years, just trying to show people, you know, the, the good side of neurodivergence, but, you know, acknowledging, acknowledging the disabilities and, and I've said it so many times on this podcast, it is like two sides of, of the same coin. And each day I flick it up and I have no idea what it's going to land on because I have no idea what sort of a day I'm going to have. You know, I can have a day where, you know, I'm to myself and I'm doing my own thing and I'm, I'm. I don't feel disabled at all. And then I've said, you know, I'll go and I'll have to do something for work or I have to go on a train or I have to go on a bus. And then suddenly I literally feel like the most disabled I've ever felt in my life. And it is literally that, that flick of a coin, it warms my heart. It really does, to know that there is other people out there with that same mentality, that same idea. And it's literally like, your words are my words. And, and we've all come up with this individually. It's like, you haven't copied me, I haven't copied you. It's, it's because your lived experience has shown you this is the case. We have the abilities, we have disabilities, and then we can combine them and then help with, with both. And, and it's, that's what people need to understand more than anything else. It's, it's wonderful. Genius within sounds like an absolutely amazing. Are they hiring?

[Paul Stevenson]

There's jobs available. It's funny because people says, well, what have you got? Any examples how it works? So I said 2009, I couldn't leave my front door. I couldn't use public transport. I said, 2026, 2025, I'm on a stage in Athens talking amazing medical professionals about a condition that they've been to university and studied all their life. And I said, the only reason I'm here, obviously not solely down to genius within, but is because of the support, the strategies that have been put in place and also coaching, which we do, which I found. So I've been. What's what's the other word? I've been to see people before and it got on a board and saying peaks and troughs. Peaks and troughs. You're about here, Paul. And just, you know, counseling that are having. It felt like they were ripping open a 30 year old sky that had healed. So when did this trauma start? How did that start? But with genius. The coaching sessions are like going for a friendly walk with somebody who we come to a path that's muddy and there's stepping stones and they went, oh, there's a stepping stone there, Paul, you know, stepping stone there. And the other illustration I use is what they're like in finding your strengths. Everybody's had that experience at Christmas time getting the Christmas decorations down from the attic. And there's no, you can't do two things at once. You can't hold the torch and get into attic. Well, my coaching sessions were like a friend shining a torch identifying where things were. Oh, there's your visual thinking, you know, there's your Christmas fairy for topic tree. Do you get the illustration? I'm saying, you know, oh, absolutely. Guide you. They don't, they don't tell you what to do. And if you, if you're anything like me, if I'm told what to do, I don't do what I'm told what to do. But Paul.

[Jordan James]

So you have pathological demand for it.

[Paul Stevenson]

Welcome.

[Jordan James]

What, what a shocking revelation. Pda. Yeah. Well, welcome to the neurodivergent experience, everyone. We have everything.

[Simon Scott]

One of the things that you were just saying there, Paul, reminded me, I've very recently just done an interview on a podcast called the Late Diagnosis Club which talks about people's late diagnosis stories, whether self diagnosis or official. If somebody's let us, let us know what we are. And the interviewer always finishes with what advice would you give? And my advice was find an elder. Find somebody who's been doing this lived experience with knowledge longer than you have and learn from them and let them show you the way. And let them, you know, almost like be a Jedi to you and, and guide you and give you that. What exactly what you were just saying. Let them hold the torch for you so that you can find your own way.

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah. And it's, you know, it's perfect. Right. So I, I do suffer from anxiety. It's in my life all the time and it's going to be there. We don't need to know where that anxiety has come from, but we need to know what, how is it affecting you today? You know, let's see what it is. Do you know, anxiety is not a bad thing, Paul and I went, oh, well, I remember like freezing mid thing. And he said, it's just there to dot the eyes and cross the T's, just to make sure that we get things right. So my attitude to it, it went from being enemy, putting me into fight and flight, to me not being afraid of it anymore. You know, don't freeze when your anxiety kicks in, just think about. Right, yeah, no, I've got that, thank you very much. Anxiety. I've got that covered. Yeah, I did bring my laptop with me, thank you very much. And so. Right. Viewing it differently and just so you think, well, it's not an entity, is it? But no, it's not an entity, but it's not nothing to be frightened of in the sense of just shutting down completely. So I stopped fearing my anxiety. And that were a coaching session. And I've got to say we, in about 20 minutes of being in that coaching session, I'd come to that conclusion because they were showing me the stepping stones. Or just step over here, step over there. And. And it was brilliant. I mean, I, I mean, I'm. Obviously I'm biased because I work there, but it's worked for me. It's got me from, you know, the biggest step of my life with a doorstep to international travel now. So I'm off to Slovenia to an international conference in June. Yeah, I do get upset, worried about travel, but what it makes me do now is dot the I's and cross the T's because I make sure that I've got assistance at the airport, I make sure every eventuality is covered. And then I've got that peace of mind to think, right, let's just enjoy the experience, you know, do you take

[Jordan James]

your camera, do you go and do photography when you go and do these traveling places?

[Paul Stevenson]

My form, I mean, I've got. My camera's Canon 70D. 70D.

[Jordan James]

Oh, it's quite either 77D.

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah, well, it's quite, it's quite heavy. And you know, you've got restrictions when you're traveling abroad. So I just use my phone.

[Jordan James]

I don't think I've gone anywhere without all my equipment in one. I just, like, I just, I have a long lens, I do, I take it everywhere.

[Simon Scott]

One pair of pants.

[Paul Stevenson]

But all these guys, cameras, that's it. Yeah. And.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, literally. Yeah, yeah.

[Paul Stevenson]

So what I did, I, you know, I mentioned these weekend retreats that we had that were put on workshops and I wanted to share in part that piece that I got from being creative to the young people who came to the event. So I put together a workshop called Capturing Creativity. The first time I did it, you know, technology has moved on. So we were using. Using all my cameras and I'm giving these cameras to young people with Tourette syndrome and ADHD and thinking, no, that's nearly a thousand pounds worth of a camera. Jesus. Yeah, I'll be like, this isn't going to work out in the long run. And. But the idea behind the workshop was, so we'll get them all together. And this is featured in the movie, actually, it's a part that I play in the movie, is for them to start noticing their environment when they go out, take pictures of what they want to take pictures of. No one's going to judge. No one's image is going to be rubbish because no one's going to judge what image image you take. You're taking that image for you. You're being creative. Don't just stand there, head out and click, roll around floor. Look at the smallest objects that you can. And I showed him an example of. I went out one day and I had an idea of capturing a barn owl. And I knew the word on the farm near where I lived. But as I walked up, I stopped and I just pondered and I looked at the storm wall and there were moss on the stone wall and there were moss spores coming out of the moss and they're like so, so tiny. And one of these moss spores had a drop of water on it because it had been raining. And it was like looking into another world, you know, I actually didn't notice the countryside. I went beyond that. I saw the countryside, I felt the countryside. And I thought, right, so what we're going to do with this workshop, I get everybody there and I say, do you remember when you were little and your mom and dad used to take chip shop? And you'd be stood there looking at this big counter, smelling all the things that were going on. What magic's being. What magic spells are being cast behind that counter. And you always wanted. You had that wonderment, didn't you, of the height that you were seeing things that were possibly higher than you. And you looked at the world with different eyes, with different perspectives. And I said, that's what I want you to do today. Just do what you want to do. Whatever idea comes into your head, you do it. And as time's gone on, we've done it with a form, though, because you can get an editing system. We use Snapseed I use snapseed in the workshop and it's only a simple one and you can take photographs and you can edit and you can have the final result within the workshop. And that works perfectly for us. ADHD is because, you know, we're not hanging around for post to deliver photographs that we took last week.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, no, it's perfect. I've got Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop Express on my phone. It's literally how I, when I started taking pictures, that's all I was using was just those, those like apps on my phone and I don't even use like detailed tools on my laptop. I actually normally transfer everything to my tablet and I do it that way.

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

So like once I got used to a certain way of doing things and I just edit everything on my tablet now because I get the little pen and I can touch things and I can create things. It's so meant, it's so good for your mental health.

[Paul Stevenson]

Best thing about that, that workshop is it's I. Then you give it as a tool. It's for them to use now and use the example that I fly, I go on trains, I've got photographs that I've taken that I decide not to edit until I'm traveling. And once I start traveling, a four hour journey by train to London ends up next to no time because I've picked these pictures up, the creativity is kicked in. I'm not ticking. Nobody's bothered about me going into the airports. Yeah, it's really stressful. There's a lot going on. But you know, if I've got this strategy in place, then I said to suggest to the young people, why don't you use this when you, you know, having to travel when you're feeling under pressure? Because that creativity. And another thing I say to him is, don't delete photographs on your first viewing.

[Jordan James]

That's what I always tell people. Don't, don't think that it's crap. Yeah, just like you don't know you're looking at, come back to it later and then you're suddenly like, oh, do you know what? I actually really do like that photo

[Paul Stevenson]

because you're looking at it with the most critical eye and the whole point of the exercises is not to be critical about yourself.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Don't compare yourself to this is.

[Simon Scott]

This is why I never edit episodes as soon as I've recorded them. I always sleep on them and come to them the next day with fresh ears, not eyes. But yeah, I relate to that a lot.

[Paul Stevenson]

So, yeah, so things that, that the Photography has paid off. It's been a gift in, in many ways. You know, the first thing that got me out the house, it was the first thing that helped me to discover that creativity plays a big part. For respite from Tourette's syndrome and obviously my adhd, I gained dopamine hits because I'm enjoying what I'm doing and then being able to make it into a workshop. And I've done that internationally. And like I say, it was featured in the film, and it's a great tool for the young people. You know, I'll do it as an icebreaker at work if we're doing a conference. So the instructions are. So we're all meeting up at certain sort of place for this conference. What I would like you to do is observe your environment as you're walking along, take photographs with your phone. And then when we get into the, the workshop area, I'd love you to explain what, what captured your attention. I'd love you to explain what that image says to you. And then when they edit them, there's another story comes out of it as well. And, you know, the things that people have done. So this woman lady who I work with, she took picture of a load of pebbles, and she said, I don't know. I took pictures of pebbles. Pretty boring. I went, no, they're not. I said, you're a graphic designer. I said, you can see patterns, you can see shades, you know, where somebody would see chaos, and nothing you, you can use, but other things. So, you know. Yeah. Really, the pop. There we go. I forgot what I say now.

[Jordan James]

No, it's great. What I was gonna say was, what, what was it like working on the film on, on the set? Like, I, for me, like, I, I, I know that. I mean, I've watched it so many times now. I know, I know that scene with you in it because it, it spoke a lot to me, because when you see John doing the, the thing in the community center with all the kids and stuff, and I was like, I've literally done that exact thing. You know, I've, I've done these talks with these families and, and then I did photography workshops, local gardens. I, you know, I used to go around and I used to, you know, show kids how to take pictures and stuff. And it was wonderful, actually, because I put it on Facebook and a whole bunch of random strangers sent me cameras for free to, to use on this? Yeah, for my workshop. It was an amazing one. Like, people so generous. So I have this bag of cameras I was able to just give them out to all these kids, and they were. They went around taking all these pictures, and it was. It was so much fun. And I've. I haven't done it for a while now. I just. I just haven't had the spoons. I haven't had the energy. But it's definitely something that I want to start up again as soon as that is there. But obviously, that bit in the film really spoke to me. When I'm. When I see you showing these kids photography, and I'm like, oh, my God, that's literally me. So, like, you were me in the movie. I was. I felt so connected to you. I felt very connected to John in that movie for everything he's been through. I felt so similar. But that bit with you with the cameras, I was like, hey. So that's when I. When I found out that I could interview you from the movie that I love so much. Oh, it just. I was so excited. And. And you've been amazing, by the way. Like, you've been like 10 million times more than I could ever imagine. Because it was just that little bit in that movie. And then, you know, you are. You're just an amazing human. You really are.

[Paul Stevenson]

So I'm going to say, people have said to me, how did you get into acting? I said, well, it's not really acting. It's a cameo role. But I went, nepotism. I said, isn't that the only way? And I'm like, pretty please, John, I'd love to know. I mean, I'm in the book, but the book obviously goes beyond what the movie does. But I think the movie getting onto the subject of the movie is just like, wow. I heard about the project. John said, this guy is called Kurt. I went, oh, I've heard of Kurt Jones. Yeah. Oh, wow. Danny McPhee fame, you know. And I'm like, so, what's the plan? And he's telling me the plan they're gonna call it, I swear. And I'm like, oh, that's gonna upset people. But no, because in the movie, he says, I swear I've got Tourette syndrome. I swear this. That I'm not doing it on purpose. And I'm like, how's it gonna work? You know, who's gonna get to act? Do your part. And then I got a phone call saying, do you want to do a zoom with Rob Arameo? Robert Arameo? He wants to find out as much about John as possible. So I thought he's gonna ask me, tell me some of John's ticks. And he went, I'm not. He said, I'm not. I am curious about the ticks and the mechanics behind it. But what I'm more curious about is the other stuff, the co occurring things that Jonas is ocd, his anxiety, they're the things that I want to get into and look at. And I knew right away, I thought this is the guy for the job because he's seen beyond the ticks, you know, he's seen to the things that drag us down. You know, portraying how he feels after he's been bullied, the anxiety before doing something. I don't know if I can do this. I don't know if I can do this. You know, like all that. And then it was so inclusive. You know, over 30 of the actors live with Tourette syndrome. All the associations in the uk, Tourette's, Action Tick Hall, Tourette's Scotland, they were all consulted, they all played a big part in advising. And Rob himself went and stayed with John over a three month period visiting him, not staying in his house but you know, living in Galashiels.

[Jordan James]

They were stalking him like you were.

[Paul Stevenson]

He said to me, how do I get to know John? I went stalking but don't stalking. Yeah, yeah.

[Simon Scott]

I, I, I have to admit, Paul out just something that I wanted to just add here, somebody who has acting experience and has been on film sets. I can imagine it was an unusual environment to find yourself in. It's very strange but one of my favorite acting choices that Robert Aramayo makes and I think Kirk Jones did an incredible job with the direction is how Jon sees himself in the mirror throughout the film and how he views himself. And that first time he's in Dottie's house and he smashes the mirror and the look of anguish on his face to then how he ends up viewing himself later on in that film, I just, it's, it moves me so, so much did. It's incredible.

[Paul Stevenson]

I know. I mean when I were on set I had, I had my own little trailer and I think two weekends on the truck to the end of the movie of filming. And I kept hearing John go, hey, hey. And I'm like John, I'm over here, I'm over here. John didn't come. Anyway, it weren't John, it were Rob. He's a method actor so you can see that we didn't have anything to do with him whatsoever. We weren't, couldn't see him, couldn't speak to him because he had, he became John through the whole entirety of that Movie. I spoke to his dad and I said, how's he gone? How's he going on afterwards? Said, well, the ticks lingered on a bit, you know, because they became habit. And he said, in his strain, his neck and different things, and he said, it must be impossible to live with that condition. So it really. He became John Davidson, you know. And so when I, when I were coming on set, Rob went offset, you know, I got some interaction with the other actors. Maxine Peak, absolutely fantastic. Love it a bit. Me and Jonah sat outside and she says, can I come and sit with you two handsome chaps? And I went, a rose between two piles of horseshit. And, you know, like the rose between two thorns. And she goes, I know you, you lads from tv. I'm like, okay. Just saw down to Earth and captured the essence of Dottie. Yeah.

[Jordan James]

I mean, she was amazing.

[Paul Stevenson]

You mean, it's like people have said, why do you think she did. I said, she, she would. Dottie. That's how Dot is, like, you know, so compassionate and beyond giving. She'll go that extra mile, you know, like, this lad needs help. Well, I'll tell you what, let's move him into our house, you know, and

[Jordan James]

it, it's, yeah, Dottie's like her story. And, and I can only go. It go from it. But from the, the movie, seeing Dottie in the movie, I literally was said to my wife, I was like, that's you. Because before I met my wife, like, my, My parents did abuse me. I, I, My dad neglected me, My mother was. And we won't even go there. I had a really horrible childhood. And then just as I was sort of getting to the point where, where I was going to move out and I was going to move in with my older brother because he was the only person that was ever there for me, he unfortunately was killed in a motorbike accident. And it just spiraled me. And I literally, you know the scene where John goes in the water to do what he wanted, that. I literally did that because I didn't want to be around anymore. And, and then I met Sylvia, I met my wife. And it, it, she could see past all the. The hard shell that I had covered myself in. I'd cover myself in all this, like, almost like clay, just to keep everyone away. Like, no one could see the real me, but she saw through that. And she saw through that because it later turns out she is also neurodivergent. She could see the real me. So when I saw Dot doing the same thing for John, it like, Again, it just spoke to me so much because it's. So often that's all we need is. Is somebody to give us a chance and see beyond the. The whatever you like to call it, whether it's a condition or a disorder or whatever, whatever you have, any neurodivergence you have that you might see as negative people, if they can see past that, it will change your life and. And you're changing people's lives in that way.

[Paul Stevenson]

Wouldn't it have been amazing to have a dot in our lives when we were younger? You know?

[Jordan James]

Yeah.

[Simon Scott]

Well, I think everybody listening to this needed a Dottie at some point.

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah, I mean, my, my Dottie didn't come till I married Carol because, like, when. What you were just talking about your parents. I mean, I was punished because of my neurodivergence. You know, I grew up being told that I were lazy. And all those negative labels, when you don't have a diagnosis, you don't have an understanding. Those negative labels stick with you. You believe them yourself.

[Simon Scott]

Well, they become part of you, don't they? You identify with them.

[Paul Stevenson]

I'm a sinner because I say and do things that God doesn't like. You know, the. The laziness thing came from 18 months into a job, I got bored. And that's all it were.

[Jordan James]

We literally talked about this on the last episode, this thing called bore out. So you have burnout. Yeah, and you have bore out. And bore out is literally caused by boredom. And it means you're not doing enough. You're not stimulating yourself enough. And it actually has the same symptoms as. As burnout, which is caused by doing too much stuff. So it's a really good episode.

[Paul Stevenson]

The other one I'd. I got. Got labeled with is because you're lazy. You always find the easiest way to do something. And I'm like, isn't that just sensible?

[Simon Scott]

Do you know what Bill Gates said in the beginning of his book? I hire lazy people. They find the quickest and best ways to do things.

[Paul Stevenson]

Yes. I'm great at time emotion because it's like, why am I crossing up corridor three or four times when I could actually do it in two times by pick? While I'm taking something away, I could be bringing something back. And my dad used to say, if you. If there's an easy way to do it, Paul will find it because he's lazy. And I'd lived those labels. I believed him that I was lazy. And. And this is why, you know, we're pushing for early diagnosis, early intervention.

[Jordan James]

Yeah.

[Paul Stevenson]

So I went to Parliament last year and I spoke in front of MPs and I said, we need to tip the education system on its head because. Why so? Because it's not working.

[Jordan James]

Well, God. Yeah, I've been saying this for five years now. It's apps. The education system isn't good enough to up your ass with. It's absolutely shite. It, it's, it's so honed on like, like, just like a factory just chucking out kids and, and not individualizing them.

[Paul Stevenson]

How do we propose to do it? Well, why don't we empower them? And rather than giving them SATs, that the, the result of that is that you, you're not really succeeding in this and then nothing's being done. Why not give them a positive assessment, cognitive assessment, you know, the one that I got, like, I got. And the ones that we do at Genius Within. Why don't we do that for every 12 year old and find out what the strengths are? Why don't we empower them by letting them know what the strengths are, educate them to the strengths, set them on the right trajectory to success rather than what's happening now is that we're not good enough, we don't feel good enough, we're told we're not good enough, and we're slipping underneath the radar. And I'm like, yeah, but what's in it for us? I went a smaller prison population, people in employment, fulfilled employment that they enjoy doing, paying taxes, buying cars, you know, that's what's in it for you. Because this, these are all the things that it's going to solve. Unemployment, you know, the prisons overloaded by neurodivergent people who wasn't shown respect, wasn't shown understanding when they were younger. So, you know, that's the message that I want to put forward. Why? Why? And I think that's why we're all of value, is because our experience in life we don't want anybody else to do, to go through what we went through.

[Jordan James]

You know, literally that, that, that is my whole reason for, for doing everything I do on social media and this podcast is to. To make people realize that they're not alone and to empower us to be able to advocate for ourselves. Because the more of us do what we do, the, the better it is for everyone.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, I mean, I said to you, didn't I, Jordan, when I pitched the idea of this show all those years ago, I said, I want to make something that I could have listened to five years ago that would have changed

[Paul Stevenson]

My life resonates with it.

[Simon Scott]

What we try and stick with constantly is, would this have helped me five, 10 years ago? Would little Simon have listened to this and felt good about himself? That's what we've got to keep sticking with.

[Paul Stevenson]

I mean, at the moment, we're in a situation where we're trying to fix broken adults, people who haven't been acknowledged as being neurodiverse and made to feel wrong and punished for manifesting traits of our condition. And that's a mask. And you get tired. I was in a mental health system for a long, long time, not, not knowing what was wrong. And now, you know, why do we have to. Let's set him on that right trajectory from that age, and then we'll. We'll have less work to do mending broken adults. And I think that's the future. And a lot of it with me is. Is aimed at younger people also, you know, people around my age who are just getting diagnosed. I'm. I'm there for them. But someone said to me, what is the best age today to educate children about Tourette syndrome? And I went, I think before they go to school. And they went, how does that work? And I said, well. And I thought, hang on, I've got something here. Why do I want to write a preschool book about someone who's got Tourette syndrome? Someone who the kids had recognize. And there's a book that makes people not want to be frightened. So I remember being in town with my children when they were young, and I was ticking uncontrollably and a guy sheltered his own children from me, and I'm like, mate, mate, I'm not a threat. I'm not a threat. Go away. Go away. Stay. Stay behind Daddy. And I thought, from that day on, now those children, I'll be frightened of someone who's got Tourette syndrome. So I thought, right, let's educate our children before they pick up any prejudice off mum or dad or any other school, you know, any other children's school. So I decided to write a story about a young child called Jamie who's got Tourette syndrome. And Jamie's happy to say, to acknowledge that people notice his tics, acknowledges the fact that some of his tics can be humorous, but also wants the other children to acknowledge that it's not easy having Tourette syndrome and it's painful and to show his resilience and not to be afraid of him because he's a great team player. He's got fantastic imagination. He's got loads and loads of empathy and I just, I wanted to set this and I thought right, so I'm a visual thinker. The images were coming to me and I thought you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna put it in rhyme because when I were a kid I'd always remember things in rhyme. You know, a singy song sort of thing. So that's where the idea for the book My ticks and me came from. And then on the back of that I thought, you know, my busy brain and me I, I what? And so I've, the second story's been written, it's just waiting to be published and it's about a young Indian, what you call Krish who is a great team player. Chris is a great one to have in your group at school when you're doing projects because he thinks out the box, you know, he's got a great imagination. You'll never be bored being with Krish but you'll notice sometimes Chris when he's sat by the window I'll disappear into his own world and he'll forget things and stuff like that. And what I've done as well in the back of both the books I've put down tips for teachers because I thought it's going to be preschool teachers who will be reading this. So right, I've got an understanding of Tourette syndrome but I want the book to, for them to go oh and this is how I can help. This is what I can do to make Krish or Jamie's classroom experience better. So they are educational books but they're also a great little storybook. My wish, I wish every school, preschool around the world would have them because you think about it, you read that in preschool then you go to secondary school and you about 11 or 12 you notice someone in your class who's ticking and you went oh do you know Summer, I read a story about a little boy called Jamie who had tics and right away the connections are there's no barrier like ooh, what's he doing? Why are they making that noise? Why is she jumping about? So that's the idea behind the book. And I got a grant from Genius within subsidiary company called Blooming Genius. And that grant allowed me to buy 300 books and I gifted 100 to each association in the UK. So that's Tourette's Action, Tourette's Scotland and Tourette's Hall. Now one of those books in Scotland got into the hands of a lovely lady called Lindsay and she read it to her daughter called Grace who had newly been newly diagnosed and not come to terms with why she's ticking. Why am I doing this? Why is this happening? And after reading that book it helped her to come to terms with her condition. But you know the first thing she thought about doing, she took it into school. You know you would get a lot of necessarily bullying but you get a lot of unwanted attention. And she saw the effect that it had on my classmates and the effect it had on her. And you know what she said to her mum one can I buy loads of these books and give it to every school where we live? Oh we're going to do that Said well if I sell sweeties to my friends at school I can raise money to buy these books Anyway, she's done it. Not just in a town, in the whole county of Renfrewshire in Scotland. Eight year old Woomph.

[Jordan James]

That is unbelievable.

[Paul Stevenson]

I mean I'm getting goosebumps.

[Simon Scott]

No, I'm getting a bit tippy. Glasses are steaming up. It's not you, it's me.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, kids are just like especially neurodivergent kids. I, I, they, they, they can just so surprise people and I think that's it. It just shows the, the empathy levels that we have that we're told that we don't have and it's so the opposite. And, and I do see that you know with, with, with kids is that they're so pure and then life just crushes them and I, I just don't, I, we don't want that to happen. So that's why one of my favorite things has been going into schools and doing talks and showing them my photography and, and I also had a very similar idea of, and I, I told my publisher this with, with my book is that I wanted to see it on the desk of every head teacher of every school because it starts with the head teacher because they make the policies, they can make the change within their school. And when I was doing school talks, literally headteachers were getting me to bring the book in and seeing that book on their table was a dream come true. So yeah, just if we just got to keep plugging away I guess what,

[Paul Stevenson]

what still sticks out to me is that you know, reading the book, Grace read the book. This has really helped me. Thank you very much. Now I can get on with my life. No, this is going to help other children. Thinking of that empathy and compassion to instantly think about helping other people that you know, I, I talk about it. I did an interview at work the other day about, about it and someone Said to me, yeah, but if you hadn't written that book. And I went, listen, all I did and all I'm doing all my. My life, it's not about me, it's not about what I've done, it's about how many doors I've opened for people to walk through themselves. Because if you're helping and assisting people, right, you don't have to be a massive, big flamboyant display of, well, I went up to this person, I bought my meal and I paid the rent for three weeks and basically I just opened the door and they walk through that door that were closed to him. And I know that we've been going on a long while, but I want to give you an example of the difference you can make without making a big ooha about it. So I was on Twitter when it was Twitter, when it was useful, and I had timelines running, Tourette timelines. And this one lady went on, she said, I'm at the end of my tether. My husband's a fire chief in the town we live in. We got quite established in the town, our family. But my son is getting mercilessly bullied because of his Tourette syndrome and there is nobody to help, nobody near no support groups. So I replied to her, said, hi, I live in the uk, I don't know much about support groups in America, but I'm here to listen. Please talk to me. So as you were talking to me, it came up whereabouts that they lived in America. And whilst she were talking, I started corresponding with a friend of mine, Miles, who lives in Philly, who's got Tourette syndrome. And I asked Miles, I said, is there any Tourette's support groups to call them chapters in America in this part of Vermont? It was where they were quite rural and it turned out that there was a support group four minutes away. And I give her the details of the support group and I just. It went on, it went past and I forgot about it. But, you know, I was just happy to do such a little thing. And then I got a call off her saying, I just want to thank you. My son now is doing a work, he's graduated, he's doing awareness talks in schools and colleges to help people educate about that. And she said, thank you. So. So I went, I didn't do that, I didn't do that. I just, like, heard you, saw you and all this door needs opening and that were it, you know, they did all the hard work. He did all the hard work. He overcame that anxiety. He Realized that, you know, people started to see him for who he was and he had that power. And. And this is. If it's something to finish off on, I encourage everybody. Everybody's got a voice, right? They might not think people listen to him. Everybody's got a story. Your story might only resonate with one or two people, but if you can support or change the life of one person, then you've done a good job, you know, and.

[Jordan James]

Exactly.

[Paul Stevenson]

If it means that someone's walking in with luggage and metaphorically walking in with baggage and stuff, and they can't get through the door, it's no great effort. Just pull that lever down, just open that door and say, there you go. And, you know, that's how I live my life. I live by those policies. So whilst on a bigger scale, talking to an audience of 100, 200 people, being in a movie, being in a documentary that reaches hundreds and hundreds of people, I never forget that there's one person out there who might need your help. And I never walk past that person. You know, I don't think, oh, no, I just do conferences, I do online stuff. I'll. Please talk to me, you know, ask me questions, you know, and. And that keeps me grounded, you know, it's not like, oh, you're a fantastic, Paul, here's a medal. You know, I'm not fantastic, you know, by. By far, but I've got. I've got certain things that I possess and I can't make a difference. And if it's just one person's life that it's been benefited, then job done.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, you can pay it forward.

[Simon Scott]

Wow. Yeah, that's. Thank you so much for speaking with us today, Paul. You're such an inspiration and I'm sure there'll be so many people that will listen to this, that will learn so much about themselves and what they can achieve and. And where they can go. And I'll make sure that Genius within and the links to your books are all within our show. Notes that anybody can go and check out the brilliant work that you are doing, and it truly, truly is brilliant. So, Paul, thank you. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Paul Stevenson]

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for having me. I get a bit chalked up there.

[Jordan James]

It's been an absolute pleasure, Paul. Honestly, like, just for me, it was just this fleeting thought of, I'd love to be able to meet this person one day. And the fact that it actually happened because of social media, which is not always my best friend, but in this case, it has helped me. I do have a bit of clout. Apparently. I've still got a bit of clout, but yeah, exactly.

[Chase Sapphire Reserve Announcer]

Yeah.

[Simon Scott]

We find each other if we're in the right mind. Yeah.

[Jordan James]

Well, I'm, I'm, I'm hoping this won't be our last introduction and we can definitely build on this because like I said, we all need to do this together and work as a community to help others.

[Paul Stevenson]

Fish kicks. Exactly.

[Simon Scott]

Exactly. Well, this has been our interview with Paul Stevenson. Paul, thank you so much. We will be back with another episode next week of the neurodivergent Experience. Please go back and listen to a couple of other our episodes. You might learn something about yourself. That's everything from us. Take care everybody. Be kind, be safe.

[Paul Stevenson]

Thank you very much guys.

[Jordan James]

Nightly Box Bye.

[Simon Scott]

Thanks for tuning in to the neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you, whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next one for more conversations and insights into the neurodivergent Experience. If you've enjoyed the this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, Tik tok. Just search for the neurodivergent Experience. Thank you again for listening and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey.

[Sydney Sweeney / Sophie James / Ella Langley (various ads)]

Hey y', all, it's Ella Langley and I'm on set with American Eagle. Well, I grew up in blue jeans. I'm still wearing blue jeans. If I'm going to the studio or going to get groceries, likely I'm going to throw on a pair of jeans, a T shirt and some boots. And that's comfy for me. I've been wearing American Eagle my whole life. Shop the [e-mail] high interest debt is

[Paul Stevenson]

one of the toughest opponents you'll face unless you power up with a SOFI personal loan. A SOFI personal loan could repackage your bad debt into one low fixed rate monthly payment. It's even got super speed since you could get the funds as soon as the same day you sign. Visit sofi.compower to learn more. That's SoFi. Loans originated by SoFi Bankna member FDIC terms and conditions apply.

[Aura Advertisement Voice (alternate)]

NMLS 696891 Most people don't realize how much of their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the Internet, then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where Aura comes in. Aura actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But Aura goes beyond data protection. With one app you get a vpn, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, dark web monitoring and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance all backed by 24. 7 US based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or just a vpn. Aura gives you all of it together at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at aura.com safety protect yourself [e-mail] safety.