Why Neurodivergent People Are Vulnerable to Negative Influence

Summary

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The Neurodivergent Experience

Episode: Why Neurodivergent People Are Vulnerable to Negative Influence

Hosts: Jordan James & Simon Scott
Date: March 5, 2026

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Overview of Main Theme

This episode explores the particular vulnerabilities neurodivergent people—especially those with autism and ADHD—have to negative outside influences, manipulation, and ideological indoctrination. Through candid personal stories and lived insight, Jordan and Simon examine why these vulnerabilities arise, how they play out in social relationships and online spaces, and discuss strategies for greater self-protection and resilience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fitting In, Masking, and Vulnerability

• Pressure to fit in leads neurodivergent people to "camouflage" or "mask," often making them more agreeable and susceptible to influence.
• Masking as a double-edged sword:
  • Jordan: “You start trying to change your personality in order to fit in with others, which is camouflaging, masking.” (04:11)
  • This drive to be agreeable may override critical thinking and boundary-setting.

2. Manipulation in Friendships and Social Circles

• Jordan and Simon share personal stories of being taken advantage of by manipulative friends due to trustfulness and justice sensitivity.
• Notable Story (Simon, 08:35–15:28):
  • Simon describes living with a manipulative friend who exploited his loneliness and made financial demands, ultimately leading to emotional abuse and gaslighting.
  • Simon: “They exploited my justice sensitivity...made me hyper aware...they made me feel like a bad person for setting boundaries.” (08:35)
• Betrayal from trusted "friends" leads to long-lasting impacts, yet the desire for connection leaves them open to repeating patterns.
• Jordan: “But yet I still didn’t learn the lesson from it...I kept making that mistake over and over and over again.” (15:29)

3. Susceptibility to Negative Influence Online & Algorithmic Radicalization

• Neurodivergent people, especially if lonely or burnt out, are highly susceptible to being radicalized or indoctrinated by online communities.
  • Simon: “If you just keep seeing the same bullshit over and over...the more that repetition increases, like perceived truth...that’s propaganda.” (28:07)
• The drive for belonging or certainty makes ideological bubbles (from red pill spaces to conspiracy groups) appealing, even when they are unhealthy or false.
  • Jordan: “It gives you moral clarity in all your confusion. And it’s even worse when you have hyperfocus...It happens so quickly, so, so quickly.” (24:50)

4. Echo Chambers and Social Media's Influence

• Both hosts acknowledge the comfort and danger of echo chambers:
  • Jordan: “I feel very warm and cozy in an echo chamber, but it’s an echo chamber of my own creation...it represents me and my thoughts.” (40:40)
• The algorithm promotes engagement and outrage, not truth:
  • Simon: “It rewards engagement, not accuracy...creates this narrow perspective echo chamber.” (28:07)
• Both discuss micro-prejudices and internalized social scripts, demonstrating how deep-seated influences can be.

5. Protective Strategies & Building Resilience

• Diverse Perspectives: Form an identity outside any single group; maintain relationships with people who will challenge you, not just agree.
• Pause Before Acting: Seek input from trusted people before making big decisions or responding impulsively.
  • Simon: “If I had to message somebody ... I wouldn’t do it in the heat of the moment ... I would try and bring people around and get different perspectives.” (44:04)
• Know Your Vulnerable Seasons: Recognize when you’re burnt out, grieving, or transitioning—prime times for influence.
• Accepting Vulnerability: Acknowledge cognitive and emotional disabilities that make rash decision-making more likely, especially when tired or overwhelmed.
  • Jordan: “It’s not that we do it and they don’t; we do it and the consequences always seem much, much worse.” (48:26)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On masking and vulnerability:

  • Jordan: “You are then trying to be more agreeable...And that is what makes us vulnerable. Once we’re in that state...then you start agreeing with them and then you start thinking and feeling the way they feel.” (05:21)

• On repeated betrayal and friendship wounds:

  • Jordan: “My biggest bully was my friend...he took all the things that I had said to him in private...and just outed all these things to the school.” (14:02)

• On online radicalization:

  • Simon: “If you keep seeing the same bullshit over and over and over again, you’re highly likely to be indoctrinated by it...that’s propaganda.” (28:07)
  • Jordan: “I want to fit into this group on social media...especially lonely young neurodivergent, mostly men are looking for appreciation, for validation.” (23:50)

• On echo chambers:

  • Jordan: “People are like, ‘oh, you’ve just created an echo chamber.’ And I’m like, yes, yes I have. You don’t have to be in it.” (40:50)

• On responding to betrayal:

  • Simon: “If you’re still talking about it and thinking about it, it’s still happening. You’ve got to create a break.” (41:30)

• On seasons of vulnerability:

  • Simon: “Knowing your vulnerable seasons, knowing when you’re in transition, knowing when you’re in a burnout, and knowing if you’re in grief...these are going to be times where you’re really susceptible to influence.” (46:41)

• On autonomy and consequences:

  • Jordan: “It’s so difficult when you have autonomy over the choice but not over the consequence and then you just don’t think, you just do.” (50:38)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [03:52] – Introduction of Main Topic: Dangers of being vulnerable to negative influence
• [04:11–07:27] – Why Masking Increases Vulnerability
• [08:35–15:28] – Stories of Manipulation and Betrayal
• [23:50–30:12] – Social Media, Algorithmic Radicalization, and Validation
• [40:40] – Strategies: Building Identity and Community Outside of Echo Chambers
• [44:04] – The Importance of Seeking Multiple Perspectives Before Acting
• [46:41] – Knowing and Managing Your Vulnerable Seasons

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Actionable Takeaways

• Reflect on your motives for agreeing with others—are you trying to fit in at your own expense?
• Build supportive, diverse relationships outside any single social or online group.
• Pause and cross-check big decisions or reactions with trusted people, especially if you’re tired or emotionally raw.
• Be mindful of your online consumption; algorithms do not have your best interests at heart.
• Accept that vulnerability is part of the neurodivergent reality, and put systems in place to catch yourself before making impulsive choices.

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Tone & Atmosphere

The episode is honest, vulnerable, and often darkly humorous, with both hosts toggling between raw self-disclosure and practical advice. Their conversational style, mutual support, and willingness to challenge one another offers listeners a sense of both camaraderie and actionable wisdom—grounded in lived neurodivergent experience.

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For further listening:
Simon recommends [The Autistic Culture Podcast – Episode: Cults are Autistic] for deeper discussion on cult indoctrination and the neurodivergent need for belonging. (36:42)

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If you’ve ever felt easily swayed, targeted by manipulative people, or lost in toxic online spaces, you’ll find this episode validating and filled with both empathy and self-protection strategies.

Transcript

[Equip Health Narrator]

We live in a culture obsessed with dieting, weight loss and exercise, and that can make eating disorder behaviors easy to miss. But the reality is, eating disorders are serious mental illnesses that take a major toll on your health and your life. But recovery is possible. Eating disorders are more common than you might think. Chances are you know someone who is struggling with one, or maybe you're struggling yourself. If you're concerned about an eating disorder in yourself or a loved one, I want to introduce you to Equipment Equip is a fully virtual evidence based eating disorder treatment program that helps patients achieve lasting recovery at home. Every EQIP patient is matched with a multidisciplinary care team that includes a therapist, dietitian, medical provider and mentors. And you get a personalized treatment plan that's tailored to your unique goals and challenges. Equip treats patients of all ages and all eating disorder diagnoses. It's covered by insurance and there's no wait list. If you think that you or a loved one could be struggling with an eating disorder, don't wait to get help. Visit Equip Health to learn more. That's Equip Health.

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Big News Boost Mobile is now sending experts nationwide to deliver and set up customers new phones at home or work.

[Jordan James]

Wait, we're going on tour?

[Boost Mobile Announcer]

Not a tour. We're delivering and setting up customers phones so it's easier to upgrade.

[Simon Scott]

Let's get on the tour bus and hit the road.

[Boost Mobile Announcer]

No, not a tour bus. It's a regular car we use to deliver and set up customers phones at home or work.

[Jordan James]

Are you a groupie on this tour?

[Boost Mobile Announcer]

We deliver and set up phones. It's not a tour.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, you're definitely a groupie.

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[Simon Scott]

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[Jordan James]

here's how to stay alive longer so you can enjoy Boost Mobile's unlimited plan with a price that never goes up. Do not mistake a wasp nest for a pinata. Stay alive and switch now at boost mobile. After 30 gigs, customers may experience lower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan. Welcome to the neurodivergent Experience Podcast. A podcast where we share the lived experiences of neurodivergent people to help create a better understanding for our community.

[Simon Scott]

Join us every week as we bring you honest, raw and inspiring conversations with specialists, advocates and individuals who know exactly what it's like to live the neurodivergent Experience.

[Jordan James]

I'm Jordan James, a neurodivergent specialist, father of neurodivergent children, husband to a neurodivergent wife, and author of the Autistic Experience. And I'm joined by my best friend.

[Simon Scott]

I'm Simon Scott. I'm an autistic ADHD broadcaster, actor and advocate. Join us as we journey into unraveling the neurodivergent experience.

[Jordan James]

Hello. Hello. Welcome back, everybody. We're back. Hello, Scotty.

[Simon Scott]

Hello. It's almost like it's a surprise that we're back every Thursday, but yet here we are.

[Jordan James]

Indeed.

[Simon Scott]

How are you feeling, my friend? Are you recovering from your jet lag? You still feeling a bit ropey in the brain?

[Jordan James]

No, it's. It's all right. I've just been working a lot lately, so it's kind of like I had one day off after I came back, and then I was like, just straight into work. And my work is a mixture of day shifts and night shifts, so I've got. I've got jet lag through work.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, God. Yeah.

[Jordan James]

So my brain is all sorts of muddled. I have literally no idea what the time is or what the day is or anything like that, but here I am trying to do a podcast as best I possibly can in the most ADHD way. I have also forgotten to take my method for the day.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, brilliant. Here we go. A raw dog in it. Let's do it. Let's do this. Let's freaking go. Oh, this will be fun. So what are we going to talk about this week, my friend? Exactly. Good question.

[Jordan James]

Neurodivergence.

[Simon Scott]

So this is. This is why I have notes, ladies and gentlemen. So the topic that we definitely agreed to the other day, know if you remember this, but I certainly do. It's discussing the dangers of being vulnerable to negative influence as a neurodivergent person. Remember that. Remember that whole conversation we had?

[Jordan James]

I remember it. It was. It was my freaking idea that I have now completely forgotten everything about it. Yes, the. The dangers of being vulnerable basically just to outside influences in general. But it's. It's such a common thing. So if. If I. If I can just sort of go into a little deep dive just, just to begin with, and then we. We can go into the, The. The. The dangerous side of it. But the reality is when you're brought up neurodivergent, when you grow up, especially if you don't know you're neurodivergent and, and you're trying to fit into society, you're trying to Fit into friendship groups or you're trying to be accepted by other humans as we all are, it doesn't always go down very well. So you end up being super self conscious about everything you do. And then you start trying to change your personality in order to fit in with others, which is camouflaging, masking.

[Simon Scott]

This isn't resonating with me at all

[Jordan James]

then because you are trying to fit in, you are then trying to be more agreeable. Because the one thing that makes us disliked a lot of the time is the fact that we do tend to go against the grain. We do tend to be the ones that stand out and say, but actually it's like this. So you try and push that part of you right down to your very core. And no, I'm going to be more likable. I'm going to be more amenable. And that is what makes us vulnerable. Because once we're in that state of mind of like, I will just agree with people, then you start agreeing with them and then you start thinking and feeling the way they feel. And if those people have harmful or negative influences, that is going to affect you. Because even if you're just like, oh, not quite sure why Nigel said that, but I don't want to upset anyone because everyone else seemed like they agreed with him. And I don't want to be the one that stands out because that's already happened to me before and I don't want to be ostracized. So you just end up going with the flow. And the more you go with the flow, you start believing the things that you are being told. And sometimes people use that against you. Sometimes people manipulate you. They take advantage of you. We are counted as vulnerable people for that exact reason. We can be easily manipulated in that way because we are also very trusting because we generally, and it's not across the board, we generally are quite honest. We don't think or expect other people to not be honest.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. So.

[Jordan James]

And, and I, in my 40s, know that there are very, very manipulative people out there that will take advantage of me. And yet I still, still let it keep happening. I still keep trusting people. I still open my heart up to people and I keep letting people into my life who, who hurt me. And it's still happening to me now. And that is why I wanted to talk about this. Because it. It doesn't ever stop. But it's good to acknowledge it. The fact that we are vulnerable to outside influences and people do take advantage of us, but also the things that we think and the opinions we may have may not be ours. We are just portraying what we have been told.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, I couldn't agree more. You know, I think about my vulnerabilities as a neurodivergent person and I think about one particular experience I had in my life is I had a, a friend who felt like my first true, like best friend. And at that time I had like a really weak sense of authentic identity because I was so heavily masked and I was also really burnt out. And at that time I didn't have a lot of resilience and I had a reduced discernment and I felt like this person sort of came into my life and used me. They didn't really bring anything, they just kind of took a lot and it really exploited my justice sensitivity. They made me really sort of hyper aware of things that people were doing around me sort of mask their own. And I was lonely, I was really lonely at the time and I was susceptible to wanting friends and to have a community of people around me. And at the time this person made me feel seen and understood and gave me a lot of strong validation for what I was feeling. But it wasn't my opinions, it was theirs. And anytime I sort of questioned any of it used to, it used to cause a lot of sort of issues. It would be sort of around like, sort of difficult to say, but anytime I would sort of question anything, it would become personal. They take it really personally and I just feel bad. So then I wouldn't do it anymore. Like this person was living with me rent free for like nine months and any time I ever brought up like any money, contributions towards food or anything, they really made me feel like a bad person and that I was doing really bad things to them.

[Jordan James]

And that, that, that, that in my mind is abuse. It's, it's, it's a way of emotionally abusing you, emotionally manipulating.

[Simon Scott]

Oh yeah, they reframed everything. They reframed everything that I did that they didn't like as a betrayal.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, because it's deflection. Yeah, it's, it's, I mean, I listen to a lot of these Reddit stories now and men are awful. Just putting that out there. Men are generally quite awful, according to Reddit. And it does seem that any time there's a Reddit story where my, my husband is being really aggressive and he's really jealous and he's saying that he doesn't trust me and, and you know, he's, he wants to know what I'm doing all the Time. And, you know, I've never, never cheated on him. And I don't know where this has come from. And everyone in the comment section is like, yeah, he's cheating on you. He's, he's, he's cheating on you. Check his phone. He's cheating on you. He's deflecting. He's feeling guilty about what he's doing. He's pushing that guilt onto you. And also he's scared that you're going to find out what he's doing. So he's basically, you know, counteracting that. You know, was it the best form of defense is attack?

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And it was a strange sort of situation because at the time I felt really lost and really untethered. And I was sort of desperate to like kickstart my career. And I actually felt like this guy had a lot of great ideas. He was a really creative guy. He was a writer and he wanted to produce a play. And I had all of the ability to help him do that. But all of the language that he used and how he spoke to me, it was like he was doing me a favor. He was the one who was saving me from obscurity and being a nobody. And that if I came with him, everything would be all right. And then I just realized after a little while that I was completely facilitating him and he was a drain on me financially. And as soon as I actually brought it up and said, I am not okay with this, the blow up that I had from him, he was almost violent with me.

[Jordan James]

No, man, that sucks.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, it did suck. It was really crap. And I used to see how he used to treat people and he used to give them ultimatums all the time. I remember him saying to somebody, if you don't decide in five seconds, I'm never going to, never going to offer this again. And he go, 5, 4, 3, 2.

[Jordan James]

What a.

[Simon Scott]

Like. And I used to see him do this with other people and I'd be like, oh, he never do that to me. I'm his, I'm his real friend. He'd never do that to me. Yeah, and he did all the time. And I never, ever, ever noticed it. And he would always like bring people around to the house at like 2:00am and then just, oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I couldn't say no to them. I couldn't say no to them. I couldn't say no to them. And then he'd act like I lived with him, not the other way around. And the whole time I Was just so confused because I was like, this is somebody who made me feel special. And like, I was his best friend in the whole world. And in the end, when I sort of just went, you know, I'm going on holiday next week. When I come back, I'm just gonna see if he messages me. That was seven years ago, and I never heard from him ever again.

[Jordan James]

Oh, man. Yeah. This is the worst thing about moments like that. And I had quite a few when I was younger. And in fact, my biggest bully was my friend who decided that rather than being bullied alongside me, he would become my bully and then be friends with all the cool kids because it's really cool to bully people, apparently. So he took all the things that I had said to him in private about, you know, like, real personal stuff because I trusted him. And he just outed all these things to the school. And even. Just. And. And. And to be honest, most of them weren't even that bad. But then he made up other things that were a lie and were bad. And because he was my friend and because, you know, people just believed him and people wanted to believe him because people didn't like me, so they wanted to believe him. So he could literally said anything, and they would have believed it. And then they would. Then they spread it around the school. And I end up having to leave that school because of severe depression. I had to leave that school because of somebody that I thought was my friend and because of someone I trusted and did that me up. But yet I still didn't learn the lesson from it.

[Simon Scott]

Right.

[Jordan James]

It's like. It's like that. That thing where you. You just like, okay, I need. I need to put a piece of string around my finger to remind me of something, and then you do it, and then you forget what it's there for. You're like, what was that meant to remind me of again? So the memory is there, but yet I forget that I'm supposed to learn from it. And then I kept making that mistake over and over and over and over again. And I'm very fortunate with the amount of friends that I've got, But I do solely stick to neurodivergent people. But ironically, that does not make me invulnerable to being vulnerable, because neurodivergent people take advantage of other neurodivergent people. It's like human nature to spot that weakness. And I have a weakness that I'm very trusting. You watch after I do this, how many phishing emails I get. I am a prince from Some far away land from Lapland.

[Simon Scott]

Yes, please send me a million dollar cash. Yeah, yeah, but that, but that's, you know, you've pulled out something there. That is so true in that this friendship was the last one in a line of a few. I always seemed to fall into the sidekick role because I didn't trust the ability to sort of stand on my own two feet. And it was easy to stand behind somebody in a lot of social situations and I found I kept doing that. But the person that I always ended up sort of standing behind use me as a deflector for their own bullshit. So, like, they would do something wrong and I would somehow be involved in it as well. I would get dragged into it through association. And a lot of the time I would end up defending somebody who would, you know, was being questioned. And then I became culpable or accountable for what they were doing because I was trying to defend my friend who was just a piece of shit.

[Jordan James]

Yes, I mean, that nail on the head there. I have gone to Batman, like aggressively. So not with an actual bat, but I've gone to bat four people who I believed were good because I liked them. And then all the time I realized that I was actually wrong for sticking up for them and I shouldn't have stuck up for them, but I did. But then again, I don't. This is. The thing is, and I'm sure you're the same. I'm not blaming myself. Like, I'm not to blame. Like, I, I know that I made mistakes. I know that I keep doing these same things over and over again. And. No, and, and, and I. Look, I'm going to tell the audience, I will confess there is a reason behind me doing this episode is because this has happened to me very, very recently. Very recently I have been massively let down by someone that I considered to be a friend. And it is hurting. It is hurting and I'm dealing with it. And Simon has been here for me and I've been non stop chatting with you, dude, about it and you have been amazing. And it is because of you and because of my friend Rick and because of my family and because of my other very dear friends who I do trust and know what's happened because of their support.

[Simon Scott]

It.

[Jordan James]

It meant that this incident was nowhere near as hurtful as it could have been because I. I know that if, if I didn't have the friends I have and this had happened, I would have spiraled. I spiraled anyway, but I would have super spiraled.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, I know. I was trying to help you out your tailspin. If anything, I was like, I'm really, really sorry that this has happened. It's super shitty. But it isn't the end of the world. It's an opportunity to move on and reset boundaries.

[Jordan James]

Exactly.

[Simon Scott]

And rethink and rethink and reframe and just sort of align yourself a little bit. But let's take a little break here and when we get back, dude, I would love to really discuss the way that social media affects our susceptibility to falling under bad influence.

[Jordan James]

Indeed.

[Simon Scott]

Get right into that after this short break.

[Boost Mobile Announcer]

Big news. Boost Mobile is now sending experts nationwide to deliver and set up customers new phones at home or work.

[Jordan James]

Wait, we're going on tour?

[Boost Mobile Announcer]

Not a tour. We're delivering and setting up customers phones so it's easier to upgrade.

[Simon Scott]

Let's get in the tour bus and hit the road.

[Boost Mobile Announcer]

No, not a tour bus. It's a regular car we use to deliver and set up customers phones at home or work.

[Simon Scott]

Are you a groupie on this tour?

[Boost Mobile Announcer]

We deliver and set up phones. It's not a tour.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, you're definitely a groupie.

[Boost Mobile Announcer]

Introducing store to door switch and get a new device with expert setup and delivery wherever you're at.

[Simon Scott]

Delivery available for select devices purchased@boost mobile.com

[Equip Health Narrator]

we live in a culture obsessed with dieting, weight loss and exercise, and that can make eating disorder behaviors easy to miss. But the reality is, eating disorders are serious mental illnesses that take a major toll on your health and your life. But recovery is possible. Eating disorders are more common than you might think. Chances are you know someone who is struggling with one, or maybe you're struggling yourself. If you're concerned about an eating disorder in yourself or a loved one, I want to introduce you to eqip. EQIP is a fully virtual evidence based eating disorder treatment program that helps patients achieve lasting recovery at home. Every Equip patient is matched with a multidisciplinary care team that includes a therapist, dietitian, medical provider and mentors. And you get a personalized treatment plan that's tailored to your unique goals and challenges. Equip treats patients of all ages and all eating disorder diagnoses. It's covered by insurance and there's no wait list. If you think that you or a loved one could be struggling with an eating disorder, don't wait to get help. Visit Equip Health to learn more. That's Equip Health.

[Simon Scott]

Have you ever felt stuck in patterns that don't serve you, struggled with stress, or wanted to connect more deeply with yourself. Then I have to introduce you to a friend of the podcast and Ashley Bentley of integrated coaching, breathwork and Hypnotherapy. Ashley is a highly experienced clinical hypnotherapist and coach specializing in working with neurodivergent minds. Through a unique blend of integrative coaching, breath work and hypnotherapy, Ashley helps people rewire subconscious patterns, regulate their nervous systems, step into more empowered versions of themselves. Whether you're dealing with addiction, anxiety, burnout or struggles with self acceptance, Ashley offers practical and science backed tools tailored just for you. Her unique methods combine neuroscience, storytelling, subconscious transformation to create real, lasting change. Jordan and I can personally attest to the profound and transformative effects of her sessions which have been life changing. She does all of these sessions online, meaning she can work with you no matter where you are in the world. If you're ready to break free from old patterns and start living with more clarity, confidence and connection, go to Bit ly ashleynde to book a free consultation or learn more. Welcome back to the Neurodivergent Experience. We've been having a conversation around the dangers of being vulnerable to negative influences of neurodivergent people and you will know this better than most, Jordan Social media Algorithmic radicalization. How quickly one can fall into a rabbit hole and build a ideology around Facebook.

[Jordan James]

Comments it's, it's scarily too easy, especially for do a divergent folk. We are very susceptible again to that. We need to fit in. We want to be part of a group. And nowadays the the group is social media. You know, I, I think gone are the days where people need to fit into a group on the playground because most kids are always on their phones anyway. Yeah, and now it's like I want, I want to fit into this group. On social media and especially lonely young neurodivergent, mostly men are looking for appreciation. They're looking for validation. They're looking for somewhere to feel part of. And they are. And we discussed this on our red pill long, long two episodes of oh yeah. How easily they get sucked in to this manosphere or this right wing ideology.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, it's difficult, isn't it, when you see something online that makes you feel seen and validated and makes you say out loud, oh finally somebody is telling the truth because it relates to your own, even if it's not correct. We have a warped sort of perspective on reality, especially with rumination, rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria. Yeah, things can feel so personal even if it's nothing to do with you. So when you see somebody online saying something similar, you don't necessarily question whether it's true or not or whether it's healthy or not. You go, oh, I feel seen, I feel validated. And it gives you moral clarity in all of your sort of confusion. And it's even worse when you have hyper focus and you have rapid deep immersion and you just bury yourself in it. It's so easy to dig into a rabbit hole and you actually forget what you think. You just think what you read. It happens so quickly, so, so quickly. Especially with like pattern seeking as well. I'm very guilty of going online and connecting dots, but over connecting, I will relate things to things that aren't even relatable, but because that's how my brain works and I really have to sort of take a bit of a step back because you can fall into black and white thinking very, very, very quickly online. It's either you're in this camp or you're in this camp.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, it's, it's, it's almost like politics has taken over everything so you can't escape it. So you, you might go into social media and think, oh, this is just for me to chill out. You know, I'm just doing a bit of scrolling. I don't want to, I want to turn my brain off. I want a dopamine fix. And then, then basically what social media is just showing you is just more things to be stressed about, more things to be worried about, more things to be concerned about, more things to anger you or frustrate you and piss you off. Because that's all social media does most of the time. I'm, I'm trying to get well away from it on my page and I'm trying to just stick to, you know, photography and talking about neurodivergence and talking about the things that I feel passionate about and getting away from politics, but it just follows you everywhere. So I'll just be scrolling and it's. And the worst thing is, dude, is that I'm definitely left wing. I'm not extreme left, I'm not green. I'm Lib Dem left. But I'm scrolling. And there's right wing horrific pages. I don't even understand how they even exist as pages. It's, they're disgusting. But right wing pages that are being suggested to me, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. There's nothing that I have searched for or looked at or clicked on that would make anyone think that I'm interested in this. All I do is I put not interested, not interested, or I put the X, or I just get rid of it. I don't even want to see it. And. And I don't. And I'm like, who's. What is the driving force behind this algorithm? And I'm wondering, is the algorithm changing that? It doesn't matter. Even if you're left wing, you're still being pushed right wing.

[Simon Scott]

It's difficult, isn't it? Because I am susceptible to doom scrolling. When I'm burnt out, I just fall into it. I don't even realize that I'm doing it. It's like that cognitive flexibility sort of falls. And I just got boom, boom, boom, boom, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. And I. And I have to be really careful when I'm doing it. But one of the difficult things with the algorithm as I understand it, is it rewards engagement, not accuracy. So if somebody puts up a post about hate speech and it gets a billion comments on goes, well, obviously people want to see this, but they're all talking about it, so maybe you'll see it too. And I have found the more I scroll through Instagram and I don't do the not interested or anything like that, the more extreme the content gets. It's like it's showing me outrage and it's trying to generate fear, and that creates higher engagement. And the more you see it, the more that repetition increases, like perceived truth. It's like the illusion truth effect. If you keep seeing the same bullshit over and over and over again, you're highly likely to be indoctrinated by it because it almost becomes your second thought. That's propaganda. A lot of like black and white thinking or sort of reinforced bias that I understand is like there's a sort of a universal thing that women are bad drivers and they can't reverse or can't park. Like a bit of a social thing that is just out there that I don't necessarily agree with. But as soon as I see a woman driving and they do something wrong, that reinforced bias goes, see, See, everybody's like that, even though it's just sort of one case. And that's what I find that the Internet does. It creates like this narrow perspective echo chamber where you may have a slot, a sort of like created bias just from society, just from the way that you've been brought up. And the Internet goes, see, you are right in your thinking and here's more of it to prove it. And that's how you become, become really radicalized and indoctrinated. It's like, the content just shifts and then suddenly it's just extreme.

[Jordan James]

Do you know, I do find interesting is that, like, I. I will have unfounded prejudices in moments of frustration.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

And it's not even like, oh, I'm gonna say that, or I genuinely think, like, that. It's just because it's somewhere in the back of my mind and it's. It's almost like that eidetic memory thing where I've seen something and it's really upset me, but somehow it's just still cemented itself into my brain. So I'm just like, oh, this group of people cut me up. Rather than that human, that person, that individual cut me up. And it's. It's so fleeting that it's. It's like a microsecond. I'm just like, oh. And then I carry on with my day. But you're right, it's. It exists because of how society has, like, trained us to think of, like, oh, this group of people are bad drivers. Or, you know, that sex of people are. Are bad at this or that. And, you know, it is. It's like that toxic masculinity thing that, you know, you're growing up saying, oh, you have to be a man, and this is how you be a man. And those people aren't real men. Or, you know, girls can't do this job, and that's not a job for boys. And even though you don't really think like that, sometimes because of that indoctrination. Good word, by the way. It's the perfect word. Your brain just goes there and. And then you. And then you, you know, better thoughts come in and you're like, oh, no, that's because for years, and this is the strangest thing, for years I was like, I won't wear a pink shirt. I won't wear a pink T shirt. Yeah, it's gay. It's gay.

[Simon Scott]

I get that.

[Jordan James]

I'm not doing that. It's gay. And then. And I wasn't anti gay. I wasn't against gay. I was like, but I'm not gay, so I'm not gonna wear. And it is actually also, as I'm saying, I'm like, that's such an anal, autistic thing of like, gay is for girls. Sorry, Gays for girls. Pink, it's definitely not. Pink is for girls and pink is for gays. And I am neither of those, so I won't wear pink. So it wasn't like, oh, I'm against people who wear pink. It was. It's not for me. I'm not going to wear pink. And it was. Nonsense. It was. It's not. I have. I have pink hoodies. I have pink T shirts. I literally just bought a pink pair of shoes. I have pink and I love pink. And it's. It is. It's. I can't believe there was ever a point in my life where I was like, no, I'm not wearing pink. But it was. I tell you where it come from. It's my dad. My dad influenced me and society influenced me. Exactly like that.

[Simon Scott]

It's like, well, boys don't carry cuddly toys.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, fuck that. I love my cuddly toys. I've.

[Simon Scott]

I. Fuck it. Yeah.

[Jordan James]

I took my Squishmallow through Hobbiton and everybody asked where I got my Frodo. Squishmallow. Exactly. That is. Oh, they're too old for that toy. In fact, odd. Tell you a quick one. Watching Malcolm in the Middle, by the way, this is my new obsession, watching Malcolm, and I love it so much.

[Simon Scott]

Great show.

[Jordan James]

I watch it so good. I'm watching Malcolm the Middle, and they're trying to take away Dewey's cuddly toy because they said he's too old for it. And, oh, my justice sensitivity. I was like, I now officially hate those. I love the parents, by the way. I think they're fantastic. But I was. I hate them now. Dewey is the best character. I love him so much.

[Simon Scott]

Old man.

[Jordan James]

I'm only in season two. But Dewey, Dewey and how. Dewey and Hal are my favorite fucking characters by far. Everything to do with them is the best. They kind of like, for me, like the Brian and Stewie. That's how I look at it. Anyway, how do we get on to that? Yeah, adhd, baby.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, baby. So now, just to sort of add to that, just before we go to our next break, one of the things that it's made me think of is so much of my life growing up as a undiagnosed, completely blissfully unaware, neurodivergent person, I never felt right. I always felt like I was catching people up or I wasn't quite doing it right or I wasn't good enough. And I craved certainty. I craved knowing I was doing the right thing. And a lot of bad influence on the Internet positions you as going, they're all wrong and we're right. We're the ones that are informed. We're the chosen ones. We're the ones that are awake to what's really going on. And all those lot are just Fucking

[Jordan James]

sheeple makes you feel special, man.

[Simon Scott]

It makes you feel special. Like certainty and belonging can feel incredibly regulating. When your nervous system feels chaotic, 100% like you are attracted to feeling like you belong and somebody is, you know, like this whole red pill thing. If somebody comes up to you and you are struggling with your identity or your neurotype or your burnout, and somebody goes, it's not all your fault. It's. No, it's not all your fault. It's their fault. Who's there? Whoever the. You want them to be my friend. Whoever you want. It's always somebody else's fault. It's not yours. You're gonna go like a moth to a flame.

[Jordan James]

Everyone needs to blame someone. Even though there's only one group of people we should be blaming for everything, and that is super rich people, and I will die on that hill.

[Simon Scott]

Billionaires.

[Jordan James]

The fucking billionaires, ultra super millionaires, people who run the world, and definitely 100% people who are running social media. They are to blame, not people. People are just being manipulated left, right, and center. And what we're doing is we're just all attacking each other and like that. We're giving them exactly what they want,

[Simon Scott]

make them fight amongst themselves while we sit here in our super yachts.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, it's like super rich people just chucking a piece of bread among starving people. And while they're having, you know, their foie gras and their, you know, turkey dinners, and then there's like a thousand people fighting over a loaf of bread, and they're all distracted so they can carry on being rich.

[Simon Scott]

Makes me think of Animal Farm is like, give me some oats, brother. No, he gave me the oats. These belong to me. It's like, no, they're just trying to fatten each of you up to eat.

[Jordan James]

Viva la revolution.

[Simon Scott]

Viva la revolution. And I will say as well, just to add before we go to a break, because when we come back, I want to just talk about some of the things that you can maybe do to protect yourself just from influence in general. I've actually got a recommendation for people. I worked on the autistic culture podcast last year, and there was an episode that Angela, the host of the show, did called Cults Are Autistic. And she was sharing her experience of being indoctrinated into a cult like environment and other people and how susceptible autistic people are. So I'd actually really recommend listening to that. Yeah, it really opened my eye. My eyes to how susceptible, neurodivergent people are to feeling like they belong somewhere and that they're, like, finding a home. Really, really recommend you guys go and listen to it. But anyway, let's go to a little break and we'll be right back after this.

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[Jordan James]

Ooh, who's there?

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[Jordan James]

You called that a knock knock joke?

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[Simon Scott]

Okay.

[Jordan James]

It's just that when people say knock

[Simon Scott]

knock, there's usually a joke to go with it.

[Boost Mobile Announcer]

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[Simon Scott]

So the knock knock was just you knocking?

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[Simon Scott]

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[Jordan James]

Here's how to stay alive longer so you can enjoy boost mobile's unlimited plan with a price that never goes up. Do not mistake a wasp nest for a pinata. Stay alive and switch now at boost mobile. After 30 gigs, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the boost mobile unlimited plan.

[Simon Scott]

Welcome back to the neurodivergent experience. We've been discussing the dangers of being vulnerable to negative influence. And in that little break, Jordan and I were literally just saying, christ, we could just keep going for hours and hours and hours and hours about how we, as a neurotype of people are just so susceptible to influence.

[Jordan James]

So many examples of society just sucking us in to just the most harmful, you know, environments and harmful experiences when we, you know, given the right people surrounding us, would be able to blossom. But I actually put, you know, the. The blame is with a lot of, you know, like, cults, like you were saying, and religion and all sorts of things that. That are there to manipulate people and, you know, if you're religious, then good for you, I guess. But I'm not. No, my brain's not working. I can't remember where I was going. You talk now.

[Simon Scott]

Okay. Hello, everyone. So in this section now, Jordan thinks about his thought. It may come back. It may not. Who knows? I wanted to just discuss some of, like, the protective factors that have helped me and you in these sorts of situations. I have been very susceptible to negative, toxic friendships. And I actually feel like now I'm very, very good at protecting myself. So I maybe just thought we could discuss some of those things. And one of the really Big helps with that is I tried desperately to build an identity outside of any single friendship group. Like, I was so susceptible to camouflaging and masking with the people that were in front of me. And if I was only ever around the same three people, I just became who I was with them rather than being myself. And it's not good to be stuck in the same groups forever and ever and ever and ever. It's. It wasn't good for me. I really had to create, like a bit of separation and actually, like, maintain diverse perspectives. If I'm in a group of people and everybody agrees on everything, it's very easy for you to agree to it as well, even if you don't.

[Jordan James]

Oh, the, the dangers of echo chambers, man. Yeah, I mean, I'm. I feel very warm and cozy in an echo chamber, but it's an echo chamber of my own creation.

[Simon Scott]

Yes.

[Jordan James]

So my Facebook page, for instance. And people are like, oh, you've just created an echo chamber. And I'm like, yes, yes, I have. You don't have to be in it. And, oh, block and delete. And now you're not. And I will, I will create an echo chamber. Because at the end of the day, my echo chamber is my page and it's my page and it represents me and how I feel and my thoughts. And I don't want people invading that and, and, and telling me something different that I don't want to know. Maybe that makes me small minded. Maybe it makes me narrow minded. I don't fucking care. I just don't care anymore. I'm at that point, everyone, bye.

[Simon Scott]

But then in a way, I would actually say staying connected to people that you trust who challenge you. Because there are times where I've had calls with you, where I've gone, I can't do it. You've said that's. You don't feed it. If I'm in a negative headspace or I'm spiraling, you don't go, oh, yeah, mate, everything's really shit, and throw gasoline on it and put me down. Do the opposite. You try and raise me up, and I'd like to think I try and do the same with you. Like in this sort of the reason as to why we've had this episode, you've been really let down by somebody and I've gone, yeah, that sucks. People do let you down. I'm really sorry that it's happened, but it's happened now and, you know, we've got to move forward. You can't keep ruminating on it forever. If you're still talking about it and thinking about it, it's still happening. You've got to create a break.

[Jordan James]

It's living in. Is living in my head. But eventually it won't. And it will be, you know, it will pass and, you know, that will be a different chapter of my life. But what is interesting is that just completely randomly knowing what had happened to me with that person. I started reaching out to people that I hadn't spoken to for a long time be not because I didn't like them or anything. It's just. I just didn't. I didn't know where the friendship was going and I started reaching out to them and I feel like I've actually gained like a couple of new friends or the very least acquaintances, you know, so that kind of distracts me, I guess. But I'm. I, that I. I completely understand my privilege of the fact that I do have a huge network of people that I can trust to what I think I can trust. And I've got a. A very close network of people that I know I can trust. And not a lot of people can say that. So I do understand how fortunate I am. So for me, doing this episode was more about, like, other people. Just, you know, be. Just be careful because it will happen. People are.

[Simon Scott]

It's not an if, it's a win.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, they are doing this to you now. They've already done this to you and they will do this to you again. Just, you know, just be careful.

[Simon Scott]

I guess you've done something there that I have got written down, which I think is really important as it's maintaining diverse perspectives. But if I had something going on, like what you've had going on, I would ring you, but I wouldn't just ring you. I would ring my dad and I'd ring a couple of other friends and I would hear what everybody has had to say. Before I made a big decision, before I reacted on it, if I had to message somebody as a. A closing argument or to sort of rebuttal or defend myself, I wouldn't do it. In the heat of the moment when I'm the most upset, I would try and bring. I would try and this is just me, but I would try and bring people around and get different perspectives and go, had, what do you think of this? What do you think of that? And then I would formulate my own sort of argument and decision.

[Jordan James]

But that's just me sit there writing my exact thoughts in that moment, and then I'm just like, send and then I read the message that I've just said.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. See, I would recommend that for me. No, we're all different.

[Jordan James]

I'm just like, no, because I don't know why, but I just. When it. If it was like work or if it was like business or if it was anything like that, then absolutely, I'd be like, I'm going to be very careful with how I reply to this. I always am. And I read it through and I do check it with other people, and I'm like, okay. But when it comes to, like, friendships or people, I know you're going to get me however I am in that moment. And for good or bad, you're going to know exactly. Not only what I think, but exactly the feeling that I have in that moment and what you have, how you have made me feel. So for me, a message is going to be exactly like having a real life conversation. I write exactly what is in my head. Yeah, it. Oh, I'm here. I'm. I'm doing all right.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, you're doing okay.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Most of this is like you, buddy.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, no, yeah, I get that. Well, this is. The thing is, it's different. Different people have sort of different responses. This is just what I would suggest.

[Jordan James]

And, well, I. I would suggest doing your thing. I wouldn't suggest doing my thing. Don't.

[Simon Scott]

Don't learn.

[Jordan James]

Don't learn from the impulsive, crazy lunatic who's just got problems.

[Simon Scott]

Well, that's why we make a good pair. Because you go, shall I send this? And I go, no,

[Jordan James]

I just go to Sylvia. I go, I've sent this. And she's like, oh, no.

[Simon Scott]

I could literally just see her just going, why?

[Jordan James]

Oh, no, no, no, no. Yeah. She's like, why? Why did you send that? I was like, yeah. I regret most of it.

[Simon Scott]

That leads me on to my final little point that I would really recommend people as a protective factor is knowing your vulnerable seasons, knowing when you're in a transition, knowing when you're in a burnout, and knowing if you're in grief. These are going to be times where you're really susceptible to influence because you feel lonely or you feel hurt or you feel tired and you feel down, and it is easier when somebody picks up the load. When you give people autonomy, you give them your autonomy. And you aren't always in the right frame of mind when you agree to stuff. I heard something the other day. And listeners, you know, you will know that Jordan and I believe that neurodivergence is just one brain. It's not an ADHD brain or an autistic brain. It's one brain. But I have, in the past agree my ADHD has agreed to things that my autistic self has had to turn up for. And that can be agreeing with opinions or agreeing with, you know, doing something for somebody or, like, helping somebody out. And I have had to really create pause with impulsive decisions because there are times where somebody realized that I'm tired or burnt out or upset, and they always seem to ask me for something in that moment. And I'm so quick to agree because I feel like, well, they're doing me a favor. It's only right that I return the favor. And I have fallen for a lot of things and a lot of situations in that moment, and I've not been able to sort of in the past anyway, recognize I'm burnt out. My cognitive ability is not 100% right now. Probably don't agree to a big thing in the moment.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, know your limits and understand your disabilities. I think it's accepting. Accepting your disabilities. And a huge disability for us is, you know, cognitive thinking and making, making good decisions in the moment, especially, especially when you are tired. That is when I, I think that's when most people forget. Neurodivergent. Most people make stupid decisions when they're tired because their brain's not working properly. But as with neurodivergence, so often it is catastrophically worse because we are so much more susceptible to making rash decisions than a neurotypical. That's the difference. It's not that we, we do it and they don't, is we do it and the consequences always seem much, much worse.

[Simon Scott]

Societally, professionally. Just everything. Yeah, it's just like everything seems to have, like a combo multiplier with us, doesn't it? It's like, oh, Dave in the office made a mistake, but if you do, it's 10 times worse.

[Jordan James]

I'll give you a perfect example before we go is, oh, I'm really tired, but I'm gonna go for this bike ride. Right, says the neurotypical. And they haven't been for a bike ride all the time. And the worst thing that happens to them is the next day they wake up and they're a little bit even more tired, and they're maybe aching. Maybe their, their, their back's a bit sore. Me, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna go for this bike ride because it was a really stupid decision, but I didn't think it through. And I herniate my disc again. And then I can't walk for a month because I didn't think it through. Because a neurotypical would be like, no, I've had a herniated disc. I won't make that decision. So a neurotypical maker decision is, is not going to have a herniated disc. Whereas I could literally make that decision going, oh, I've completely forgotten I had a herniated disc because my brain fucking keeps forgetting shit that it needs to bloody remember. And that's the consequence.

[Simon Scott]

It's so difficult, isn't it, when you have autonomy over the choice but not over the consequence and then you just don't think, you just do. It's. Yeah. Well, this has been our conversation looking through the neurodivergent lens of the dangers of being vulner. A negative influence. Hit us up in the comments. How has this affected you in your life? We've given our experiences. It would be great to hear yours. Well, I'm out of spoons for this one, Jordan. I don't know whether you are as well.

[Jordan James]

I didn't have any spoons. I couldn't even eat my yogurt. I didn't have a spoon.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, could you eat your yogurt? Hit us up in the Anyway, this has been your Thursday episode. We're going to be back tomorrow with your Hot Topic and if you haven't checked out Monday's episode episode with Ashley, start your week with purpose. Go give it a listen. It's a great help to stay regulated out there. Bye everybody. We'll see you in your feed tomorrow nightly.

[Jordan James]

Bye.

[Simon Scott]

Thanks for tuning in to the neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparked something for you, whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or just a moment of connection. Connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next one for more conversations and insights into the neurodivergent experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. Just search for the neurodivergent experience. Thank you again for listening and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend with

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