The Truth About Neurodivergent Empathy

Summary

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The Neurodivergent Lens

Episode: The Truth About Neurodivergent Empathy
Date: June 10, 2026
Host: Maryam Hassan (A), with guest Emma Lord Jenkins (B)

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles the complex topic of empathy within neurodivergent individuals, debunking common misconceptions and exploring the nuances behind how empathy is felt and expressed by people with neurodivergent traits, especially those who are autistic or have ADHD. Host Maryam Hassan and guest Emma Lord Jenkins draw from both lived experiences and professional insights, emphasizing the importance of understanding, patience, and reciprocal empathy across all neurotypes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Challenging Misconceptions about Neurodivergent Empathy

• Many people mistakenly believe autistic and neurodivergent individuals lack empathy.
• Maryam opens by highlighting the harm in these stereotypes and the need to understand the spectrum-like nature of neurodivergent responses.
  • “I recognize that we have a spectrum response...we can go into a heightened place in something and...a lower place with something.” (A, 01:07)
• Emma explains empathy can be experienced and expressed in different ways, noting that neurotypical expectations don't always fit neurodivergent expressions of empathy.
  • “There’s a bit of a neurotypical expectation of how empathy should be expressed or presented. And that doesn’t always fit...for neurodivergent people.” (B, 01:52)

2. Empathy, Social Cues, and Mislabeling

• Many neurodivergent individuals receive feedback that they’re not empathetic, usually based on missing or misreading neurotypical social cues.
• The hosts discuss how behaviors such as offering personal anecdotes (to show understanding) are sometimes misinterpreted as narcissism, rather than as a genuine form of mirroring and connection.
  • “If someone’s telling you something, you might respond...and give your own example...but actually, that is a way of empathizing and relating to the situation.” (B, 02:46)
  • “In therapy, mirroring is a valuable way of empathizing…but...somebody else can misconstrue that and say...you’re being narcissistic...ironically, not showing much empathy back.” (A, 03:25)

3. Types of Empathy: Cognitive vs. Affective

• Maryam explains the two primary types of empathy:
  • Cognitive Empathy: Understanding someone’s feelings intellectually.
  • Affective Empathy: Feeling someone else’s emotions viscerally; like “being a sponge.”
  • “Cognitive empathy is when somebody is coming from a thought response...Affective empathy is...when somebody is having a felt response.” (A, 04:12)
  • “Affective empathy...might be more almost being a sponge and soaking up the emotions in the room...” (B, 04:49)
• Both types may manifest differently depending on individual neurotypes and sensitivities.

4. Heightened Sensory Responses and Empathy

• Neurodivergent people often have heightened sensory experiences; this can increase their intuitive grasp of how others are feeling (affective empathy).
  • “Heightened sensory response is...sound, smell, sight, touch and taste...neurodivergent individuals have that heightened response...to a differing level within a spectrum.” (A, 05:12)

5. Lived Experience, Context, and Empathic Capacity

• Emma argues that lived experience enhances empathy in neurodivergent people due to increased sensitivity and attunement to environments and emotions.
  • “People's lived experience of neurodivergence can actually lend itself to being very empathic.” (B, 06:15)
• Context and previous experiences of shame or trauma can shape how empathetic responses develop.

6. Empathy Within and Across Neurotypes

• Empathy "mismatches" may occur more regularly between neurodivergent and neurotypical people; within neurotype groups, there is often smoother empathetic connection.
  • “Is empathy such an issue between people who are neurodivergent? I suspect not...they might be able to better support each other...a really good example of how empathy is...expressed effectively.” (B, 07:10)
• There’s also potential for misunderstanding between different neurodivergent camps due to differing communication and social constructs.

7. Stereotypes and Societal Expectations

• The social construction of empathy favors neurotypical expressions, often invalidating neurodivergent ways of relating.
• Maryam stresses the harm in assuming autistic people are unemotional or lacking empathy.
  • “It’s really important that we understand that autistic people do feel. Autistic people do have empathy. How they express that empathy is different perhaps...but no less valid.” (A, 08:57-09:06)

8. The Importance of Reciprocity and Curiosity

• Emma highlights the need for reciprocal empathy: neurotypicals expect a type of empathy but may not offer it themselves.
  • “For me it’s just about it being reciprocal...neurotypical people expect a certain type of empathy without actually sharing empathy in return.” (B, 09:19)
• Curiosity about how others express empathy can bridge misunderstandings.
• It’s important to ask “better informed questions” and check assumptions instead of relying on stereotypes.

9. Communication and Relationship Dynamics

• Challenges in relationships can occur when empathy is expressed or received differently, sometimes leading to clashes or misunderstandings even among neurodivergent people.
  • “You may have one person who's perhaps in one neurodivergent camp...and there can be utter clashes...rather than checking it out with the other person.” (A, 11:10)
  • Emma notes this applies in neurotypical–neurodivergent interactions as well (12:17).
• Pausing, seeking clarification, and open communication are emphasized as valuable tools.

10. Reducing Stigma and Fostering Inclusion

• The hosts hope the discussion encourages more nuanced — and less judgmental — views of neurodivergent empathy.
  • “Be more patient and nonjudgmental. And empathetic towards everybody in society.” (A, 09:06)
  • “Podcasts like this are helpful...because it just opens up that conversation and'll go a long way to reducing stigma about empathy.” (B, 12:39)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “In therapy, mirroring is a valuable way of actually empathizing or connecting… somebody else can misconstrue that and say, actually, you’re being narcissistic because you’re turning it back around onto yourself, ironically, not showing much empathy back.” – Maryam Hassan (A, 03:25)
• “Affective empathy...might be more almost being a sponge and soaking up the emotions in the room and recognizing someone feels a certain way and sometimes even taking on that stress or that emotion yourself.” – Emma Lord Jenkins (B, 04:49)
• “There’s an expectation that people should demonstrate empathy in a particular way...We need to be more curious about how empathy is expressed across different neurodivergences as well.” – Emma Lord Jenkins (B, 09:45)
• “We could all be a bit more patient and nonjudgmental. And empathetic towards everybody in society.” – Maryam Hassan (A, 09:06)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:00 – 02:00: Introduction, overview of misconceptions about neurodivergent empathy
• 02:46 – 03:59: Exploration of mirroring as empathy, misinterpretation by neurotypicals
• 04:12 – 05:12: Defining cognitive and affective empathy, differences in experience
• 06:15 – 07:56: Lived experience and context, how neurodivergents may express more empathy
• 09:06 – 10:39: Dangers of stereotyping, importance of understanding diverse empathy styles
• 11:10 – 12:22: Relationship dynamics between neurodivergent and/or neurotypical people
• 12:39 – 12:49: The role of communication and podcasts in reducing stigma

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Closing Thoughts

The episode calls on listeners to rethink what empathy looks like, moving beyond narrow definitions and recognizing the diversity of empathic experience across neurotypes. The hosts champion curiosity, reciprocal empathy, and open dialogue as cornerstones for a more inclusive society.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Neurodivergent Lens. We are so excited and grateful that you have chosen to join us. In this episode, we'll be discussing empathy and neurodivergence. I'm your host, Maryam Hassan, and I'm joined today by my friend and colleague, Emma Lord Jenkins, a subject close to my heart and I suspect maybe close to yours as well. Lets talk empathy and neurodivergence. So one of the things that I'm really aware of is this is a very interesting debate about empathy and how it shows up in neurodivergent individuals. And there is a lot of misconception and misinformation out there. And for me particularly, it can cross into the territory of labeling autistic people as people who don't have empathic responses. When I think about neurodivergent individuals and I think of the traits that neurodivergent individuals have, I recognize that we have a spectrum response and that actually we can go into a heightened place in something and we can go into a lower place with something. And what I mean by that. So if I put it into an example, I think of a spectrum in my mind as imagine a television and there are thousands of pixels of color on a television screen. We can't necessarily see all of those together unless we zone in with a magnifying glass and then we see a particular color and we may see that color repeated on that screen in different hues. And that's how I see a spectrum.

[B]

So my understanding is that empathy can be experienced and expressed in lots of different ways. I think there's a bit of a neurotypical expectation of how empathy should should be expressed or presented. And that doesn't always fit neatly into how it is expressed or experienced by neurodivergent people.

[A]

Absolutely. And. And my sense is there is also differences across the different neurodivergent traits.

[B]

Definitely.

[A]

So, for instance, a lot of misconception lands on autistic people say, and of course we can't group people together. We're all individuals that have our own responses within our particular perhaps neurodivergent trait. But I've often heard people singling out autistic people and saying, oh, we are not very empathic. They're not sensitive to this situation, or they haven't come across as being very warm in this situation.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. There's lots going on there, isn't there? And I think it might be about picking up on neurotypical social cues and not responding to them in the expected way. And therefore Being mislabeled as not being empathetic, but as you say, also occurs across the range of neurodivergences as well. So I know that there's a. I think this is perhaps ADHD and autism, a bit of a trick that relates to both. But sometimes if someone's telling you something, you might respond by saying, oh, I relate to that, and then give your own example. And then the other person might say, oh, you don't care about what I'm saying. You're just talking about yourself. But actually, that is a way of empathizing and relating to the situation by using your own example to illustrate that you understand.

[A]

I think that's a brilliant example. I mean, I often see that as mirroring. And it's interesting in one context. For instance, in therapy, mirroring is a valuable way of actually empathizing or connecting with the other person. But here, the example that you've given is if an autistic person, say, is actually bringing themselves in and given an example, somebody else can misconstrue that and say, actually you're being narcissistic because you're turning it background onto yourself, ironically, not

[B]

showing much empathy back. The reciprocal empathy, it's not always there. So there's an expectation that autistic and neurodivergent people should be empathetic in a particular way without actually demonstrating empathy in return.

[A]

Yes, it's true. And there is this thing as well, I suppose, which feels valuable to mention, is this distinction between what's known as cognitive empathy and affective empathy. And for our listeners, if I can put this across as simply as possible, cognitive empathy is when somebody is coming from a thought response to a particular situation. And affective empathy is when somebody is having a felt response to a particular situation, and both can actually also be present at the same time.

[B]

So I think cognitive empathy then, might be understanding how somebody feels, maybe being able to articulate that and use the words to describe that. Perhaps effective empathy might be more almost being a sponge and soaking up the emotions in the room and recognizing someone feels a certain way and sometimes even taking on that stress or that emotion yourself would be my vague understanding of those two terms.

[A]

Yes. And the thing that made me think about when you were saying that was that sense of how heightened sensory responses actually comes in, which is another thing that we understand shows up quite a lot for neurodivergent individuals. And what I mean by heightened sensory responses is, is this, if you think about the senses, sound, smell, sight, touch and taste, often it's described that neurodivergent individuals have that heightened response in one or all of those different areas, again, to a differing level within a spectrum. And if you have somebody who is intuitively feeling, again, having an awareness, an intuitive feel in the room, then again, that is somebody who may come into the affective empathy aspect.

[B]

Absolutely. I think sometimes people's lived experience of neurodivergence can actually lend itself to being very empathic. So that, yeah, there is a lot of misconceptions around not sharing empathy, but actually it can be the opposite because you could be very attuned to other people's emotional responses or emotional reactions or whatever, because because of what you've been through, you might pick up on things. You might be more sensitive to your environment, for example.

[A]

I think that's a good point. It's a good point from the sense that actually, context matters and lived experience really plays a part in how we are shaped as individuals, but also how our empathic responses are also shaped. And there is something about, again, judgments here, how people are judged and the social construct and social cues and how that is kind of put upon neurodivergent individuals.

[B]

I think what it might come down to as well is struggling to relate to each other. So perhaps there's some misunderstandings between neurodivergent and neurotypical people sometimes. You know, actually, is empathy such an issue between people who are neurodivergent? I suspect not. I imagine that neurodivergent people actually probably empathize with each other very well in the same way that neurotypicals probably relate or empathize well with other neurotypicals. So maybe that's part of the issue when it comes to empathy. I've worked with a lot of young adults supporting women's work and who are neurodivergent. And actually they pick up on things that other people might not. And they might be able to better support each other in other neurodivergent people in the workplace. So that is a really good example of how empathy is, you know, is expressed effectively.

[A]

Absolutely, I agree with that. And I think. I think there is also this other aspect of intuition that come. That somehow fits hand in hand with empathy in a way. Maybe it's using the similar parts of the brain or actually because of those lived experiences and as we've talked earlier about shame and trauma, that actually we built those internal responses. And somehow there is. There's this intuitive response. Not always, obviously, because everybody's different, but there is an intuitive response around empathy. And understanding if somebody's got similar lived experiences and being able to place yourself in that position or place yourself in somebody else's shoes to try and from a place of understanding. Coming back to the point about how certain individuals are stereotyped, like particularly autistic individuals, it's really important that we understand that autistic people do feel. Autistic people do have empathy.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

How they express that empathy is different perhaps to say how I may express my empathy.

[B]

Yeah, but no less valid.

[A]

But no less valid. Absolutely. And so that feels really important thing to bear in mind that actually we could all be a bit more patient and non judgmental. Empathetic. And empathetic towards everybody in society.

[B]

I mean, for me it's just about it being reciprocal. That's my main point really. It's about understanding that neurotypical people expect a certain level of empathy or a certain type of empathy without actually sharing empathy in return. That's my main point, which I've sort of said.

[A]

I think that's a really valuable point in that sense of we can expect a certain type of empathy to be given to us, but in return we're not offering the same empathy back.

[B]

Yeah. It's the curiosity thing again, isn't it? It's about being curiosity curious about where people are coming from. Yeah. There's an expectation that people should demonstrate empathy in a particular way. And it's a very neurotypical standard of empathy. Actually we need to be more curious about how empathy is expressed across different neurodivergences as well.

[A]

I'm hoping that this podcast will raise some awareness around the fact that there are nuances within how. Within neurodivergent individuals and we all express empathy differently. But to perhaps be more forgiving and coming from that place that actually empathy is felt, it's just felt in different ways perhaps, and then expressed in different ways.

[B]

Yeah. And we can't expect empathy in return if we're not willing to give it as well. I think if people feel shamed and judged for not giving a. A particular response, then it's going to be harder to demonstrate it in the first place. Does that make sense?

[A]

And the difficulty sometimes can be that you may have somebody who's very expressive and outward with their empathy and then you may have somebody who's more introverted. And as you, as we've touched on around the social constructs of not meeting eye contact or being very vocal or sometimes not even be able to. Being able to find the right word in the moment, but it might be

[B]

internalizing it and thinking it through and actually coming up with a very empathic response that might not be as obvious because it might not be as expressive, possibly.

[A]

Yeah. So there's something about each of us pausing for a moment and trying to understand where the other person is coming from. Yeah. So one of the things I'm aware of is that empathy shows up or empathy is a really important factor in relationships, and that actually what can happen is that you may have one person who's perhaps in one neurodivergent camp, if you like, and then you've got somebody who's in a. Another neurodivergent camp, and there can be utter clashes because they are miscon what the other person is saying. And there's a misconstruct going on around how somebody is not feeling like they're being received empathically. And. And again, it falls back down to those social constructs and what they think is happening empathically. And what happens is that rather than checking it out with the other person. I think you meant this when you said that. Often what happens is. That's not what I said at all. You've said this. And that's not where I'm coming from.

[B]

I think it can happen with a neurotypical and a neurodivergent as well.

[A]

Absolutely, absolutely. If we. If we all pause to think about where the other person is coming from and actually just asked better informed questions than actually. And. And. And everything for me is about communication.

[B]

Yeah, that's it. And again, this is why podcasts like this are helpful, I hope, because it just opens up that conversation and it'll go a long way to reducing stigma about empathy and hopefully.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Improving. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Thank you very much for being here and having these conversations with me.

[B]

Thank you. It's been great.

[A]

Thank you for joining us today. I hope that you will join us next time as we delve further into more conversations around neurodivergence. And don't forget to share your stories with me. And if you liked what you heard, then subscribe and let's keep the conversation going on neurodivergence.