Podcast Summary: The New Yorker: Poetry – Episode: Valzhyna Mort Reads Victoria Amelina and Wisława Szymborska
Introduction
In this poignant episode of The New Yorker: Poetry podcast, hosted by Kevin Young, the poetry editor of The New Yorker, listeners are treated to an engaging conversation with acclaimed poet and translator Valzhyna Mort. Mort, celebrated for her collection Music for the Dead and Resurrected, which garnered the 2021 International Griffin Poetry Prize and the 2022 Unt Rocta Prize, brings her expertise to the forefront as she reads and discusses two significant poems from the New Yorker archive: her own translation of Victoria Amelina's Testimonies and Claire Kavanagh's translation of Wisława Szymborska's Map.
1. Valzhyna Mort and Her Selection of Poems
Timestamp: [00:57] – [01:43]
Kevin Young introduces Valzhyna Mort, highlighting her impressive accolades, including the Rome Prize in Literature and fellowships from prestigious foundations such as Guggenheim and Lennon. Mort expresses her enthusiasm for the conversation, setting the stage for an in-depth exploration of the chosen poems.
2. "Testimonies" by Victoria Amelina – A Translation by Valzhyna Mort
a. Context and Background
Timestamp: [02:12] – [04:44]
Valzhyna Mort provides a heartfelt introduction to Victoria Amelina, a Ukrainian poet and novelist who tragically lost her life due to injuries sustained during a Russian missile attack in Kramatorsk. Amelina, an award-winning author and organizer of the New York Literary Festival in Eastern Ukraine—a town previously under Russian occupation—transitioned from fiction to poetry amidst the turmoil of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. She joined Truth Hounds, a war crimes investigation group, documenting untold stories from small villages liberated from occupation. Mort emphasizes that Testimonies emerged organically from this intense period, reflecting the urgency and raw emotions of documenting war crimes.
b. Reading of "Testimonies"
Timestamp: [04:46] – [05:58]
Valzhyna Mort delivers a moving rendition of Testimonies, capturing the poem's somber and fragmented narrative:
Testimonies by Victoria Amelina
Only women testify in this strange town.
One speaks of a missing child to speak of the tortured in the basement.
...
I knock on his door. A neighbor opens. It seems like he has survived. All right, she says, go talk to the women.
c. Analysis and Insights
Timestamp: [05:58] – [22:35]
Kevin Young commends Mort's translation, noting the poem's shift from a structured, numbered list to a more personal and introspective tone. He highlights the transformation from collective suffering to individual introspection, particularly with the lines:
"It's dead. Am I dead? Its survivors are my sisters."
Mort elaborates on the poem's structure, explaining the deliberate use of enumeration as a poetic device to organize chaos and maintain a semblance of order amidst crisis. She discusses the emotional distancing achieved through bureaucratic listing, which prevents the overwhelming sentimentality that might otherwise shroud the raw experiences being documented.
The conversation delves into the power of translation, with Mort emphasizing the musicality and rhythm inherent in both the original Ukrainian and the English rendition. She shares her philosophy of approaching translation not just as a linguistic exercise but as an art form that stands on its own merit, ensuring that the translated poem resonates authentically with English-speaking audiences.
Notable Quote:
"[...] if you are patient and obedient. So if you're not trying to master language, but instead you come to language as its obedient servant, it will provide, it will give gifts." – Valzhyna Mort [Timestamp: 10:12]
Mort also pays tribute to Vladimir Vakulenko, a Ukrainian poet and friend of Amelina, whose diary documenting his captivity and encounters with Russian military was preserved thanks to Amelina's relentless efforts. This personal anecdote underscores the profound human connections and the enduring impact of preserving testimonies through poetry.
3. "Map" by Wisława Szymborska – Translated by Claire Kavanagh
a. Introduction to Szymborska and Selection of "Map"
Timestamp: [24:34] – [26:27]
Valzhyna Mort introduces Wisława Szymborska, celebrating her as one of her favorite poets. Mort chose Map for its formal similarities to Testimonies, particularly the use of lyrical eyes and the precision in depicting landscapes. Additionally, Mort connects the selection to Szymborska's birthday on July 2nd, adding a personal layer to the choice. She praises Claire Kavanagh's translations, highlighting their ability to stand independently in English without always tethering to the original Polish.
b. Reading of "Map"
Timestamp: [26:27] – [28:11]
Mort presents a beautifully articulated translation of Szymborska's Map:
Map by Wisława Szymborska
flat is the table it's placed on.
Nothing moves beneath it, and it seeks no outlet.
...
I like maps because they lie, because they give no access to the vicious truth, because great heartedly good naturedly they spread before me a world not of this world.
c. Analysis and Comparative Insights
Timestamp: [28:25] – [44:14]
After the reading, Mort and Young explore the structural and thematic elements of Map, drawing parallels to Testimonies. They discuss Szymborska's characteristic sudden turns—shifts that transform the poem from a literal description to a profound commentary. Mort notes that Szymborska often avoids overt moralizing, instead allowing understatement and irony to convey deeper truths.
The discussion highlights the poem's exploration of reality versus representation. The line "I like maps because they lie" encapsulates the tension between the more convenient, orderly world depicted on maps and the chaotic, often violent reality they conceal. Mort appreciates how Szymborska maintains a detached tone, avoiding sentimentality while still offering a critical perspective on human history and ecological concerns.
Notable Quote:
"I like maps because they lie, because they give no access to the vicious truth, because great heartedly good naturedly they spread before me a world not of this world." – Valzhyna Mort [Timestamp: 40:38]
Mort delves into the poem's subtle indictments of detached governance and the human propensity to sanitize reality through representations like maps. She draws attention to the juxtaposition of the mundane ("volcanoes with my fingertip") with the harrowing ("mass graves and sudden ruins"), emphasizing the poem's layered critique of how societies choose to remember or overlook atrocities.
Young adds that Szymborska's use of irony and understatement serves as a powerful tool to provoke reflection without overt didacticism. The conversation underscores the importance of translation in preserving the nuanced tones and rhythms that make Szymborska's work enduringly impactful.
4. The Art of Translation and Poetic Integrity
Timestamp: Throughout the Discussion
A recurring theme in the episode is the nuanced art of translating poetry. Valzhyna Mort articulates her approach to translation, emphasizing the importance of allowing the target language—English in this case—to shape the poem organically. She believes that translations should not merely echo the original but should stand as independent works, capturing the essence and musicality inherent in the poetry.
Mort discusses the delicate balance between faithfulness to the source material and the creative liberties necessary to evoke the same emotional and intellectual responses in a different language. She highlights the significance of rhythm, repetition, and sound in maintaining the poem's integrity across linguistic boundaries.
5. Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Timestamp: [44:14] – [44:48]
As the episode draws to a close, Kevin Young and Valzhyna Mort reflect on the profound impact of both Testimonies and Map. They acknowledge the enduring power of poetry to document, critique, and transcend human experiences, especially in times of crisis and upheaval. Mort's translations serve not only as tributes to the original poets but also as bridges connecting diverse linguistic and cultural landscapes.
Young commends Mort for her insightful readings and thoughtful analyses, expressing eagerness to engage in further discussions in future episodes. The episode concludes with credits and information on where to access the discussed works, inviting listeners to delve deeper into the rich world of poetry curated by The New Yorker.
Notable Quotes with Timestamps
-
Valzhyna Mort on Translation Philosophy
"I believe always that if you are patient and obedient. So if you're not trying to master language, but instead you come to language as its obedient servant, it will provide, it will give gifts."
[Timestamp: 10:12] -
Mort on the Structural Shift in "Testimonies"
"I'm also on my way because I know them all in this town. Its dead. Am I dead? Its survivors are my sisters."
[Timestamp: 06:55] -
Reflection on Szymborska's "Map"
"I like maps because they lie, because they give no access to the vicious truth, because great heartedly good naturedly they spread before me a world not of this world."
[Timestamp: 40:38] -
Mort on Szymborska's Poetic Turn
"She does the opposite. I like maps because they lie. And that's her avoiding that kind of sentimental moralism in this moment."
[Timestamp: 43:54]
Closing Remarks
Valzhyna Mort's expert translations and insightful commentary provide listeners with a deeper appreciation of both Victoria Amelina's and Wisława Szymborska's contributions to poetry. Her ability to navigate the delicate terrain of translation, coupled with her profound understanding of the poems' thematic cores, makes this episode a must-listen for poetry enthusiasts and literary scholars alike.
For those interested in exploring these translations further, Mort's works, including Music for the Dead and Resurrected, and Claire Kavanagh's translations of Szymborska's Map can be found on newyorker.com. Additionally, listeners are encouraged to subscribe to The New Yorker: Poetry podcast for more enriching discussions and readings.