The New Yorker Radio Hour: A Historical Epic of the Chinese in America
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Michael Luo, Executive Editor at The New Yorker
Release Date: April 29, 2025
Introduction
In the April 29, 2025 episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour, host David Remnick engages in a profound conversation with Michael Luo, an executive editor at The New Yorker and author of the compelling new book, "Strangers in the Exclusion, Belonging and the Epic Story of the Chinese in America." Luo delves into the intricate and often tumultuous history of Chinese immigration to the United States, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of the challenges and triumphs experienced by Chinese Americans over nearly two centuries.
Motivation Behind the Book
David Remnick initiates the discussion by drawing a parallel between his own immigrant background and Luo’s Chinese American heritage. This personal connection sets the stage for Luo to explore why he chose to illuminate the Chinese American experience, an area often overshadowed in mainstream American history.
Michael Luo shares a pivotal moment from 2016 that propelled him into writing the book. He recounts an encounter where a woman muttered, "go back to China," which led him to reflect deeply on the pervasive sense of otherness felt by Asian Americans. This incident, combined with subsequent events like the COVID-19 pandemic and the tragic Atlanta spa shootings in 2021, underscored the urgency of understanding and documenting the historical struggles and resilience of the Chinese community in America.
[03:31] Michael Luo: "Back to your effing country."
This emotional exchange became a catalyst for Luo, inspiring him to write an open letter for The New York Times and eventually pursue a comprehensive historical narrative in his book.
Early Chinese Immigration: The Gold Rush Era
The conversation transitions to the origins of Chinese immigration in the mid-19th century, coinciding with the American Gold Rush. Luo explains that the allure of economic opportunity was a primary driver, albeit amidst significant regional turmoil in China, including the devastating Taiping Rebellion.
Michael Luo details how word of the Gold Rush likely spread through trans-Pacific communication channels, such as letters and newspapers, prompting mass migration from the Pearl River Delta region. He highlights the remarkable courage of young migrants, some as young as 13, who embarked on perilous journeys across the ocean to seek fortune.
[08:35] Michael Luo: "You know, in any kind of story of migration, there's a push and pull. There was unrest in China..."
He poignantly reflects on the generational gap by comparing his own children's experiences to those of the young immigrants from the 19th century.
[09:10] Michael Luo: "These people were coming from Southern China as teenagers. 13, 14, 15."
Economic Contributions and Rising Hostilities
Initially, Chinese immigrants were welcomed by certain business interests that valued their labor for projects like the construction of the transcontinental railroad. However, this economic reliance was short-lived, giving way to widespread hostility rooted in economic competition, racism, and cultural prejudices.
Michael Luo introduces Dennis Carney, a demagogic figure in the 1870s San Francisco, whose anti-Chinese rhetoric galvanized the Working Men's Party. Carney's slogan, "The Chinese must go," epitomized the nativist backlash against Chinese laborers, who were perceived as a threat to white working-class wages and employment.
[13:32] Michael Luo: "...Dennis Carney, who is a demagogue-like figure... He would draw thousands and he would end his speeches with this rallying cry, the Chinese must go."
This period marked the beginning of systemic exclusion and violence against Chinese communities, laying the groundwork for future discriminatory policies.
Frederick Douglass: An Unexpected Ally
A surprising yet inspiring aspect of Luo’s narrative is the role of Frederick Douglass, the renowned African American abolitionist, as a staunch defender of Chinese immigrants. Despite existing tensions between black and Chinese communities, Douglass advocated for the inclusion and rights of Chinese Americans, envisioning a united front against oppression.
Michael Luo recounts Douglass's 1867 speech in Boston, where he championed America's role as a beacon of unity and dignity, extending this vision to embrace Chinese immigrants.
[15:35] Michael Luo: "Frederick Douglass... he explicitly talked about this, quote, new race that is making its appearance within our borders and claiming attention."
Douglass posed rhetorical questions challenging Americans to extend citizenship rights to Chinese immigrants, emphasizing his belief in universal human rights and the potential for mutual enrichment.
[16:12] Michael Luo: "Would you have them naturalized and have them invested with all the rights of American citizenship? I would."
Modern Resonances: Echoes of the Past in Contemporary Immigration Debates
Luo draws poignant parallels between 19th-century anti-Chinese sentiments and today’s polarized immigration climate. He observes that the nativist rhetoric and economic anxieties fueling current immigration restrictions mirror historical patterns of exclusion and scapegoating.
[17:54] Michael Luo: "When I think about what history can tell us about this moment is it's actually hard when foreign people who speak a different language, look different, come to a society. And it's hard work to not be suspicious..."
He underscores the enduring relevance of historical lessons, advocating for empathy and understanding towards immigrant communities to counteract entrenched prejudice and systemic discrimination.
The "Stranger" Paradox
The title of Luo’s book, Strangers in the Land, emerges from a Supreme Court decision that infantilized Chinese immigrants by labeling them as outsiders incapable of assimilation. Luo explores this paradox, where both legal frameworks and societal perceptions have historically marginalized Chinese Americans, reinforcing their status as perpetual foreigners.
Interestingly, Luo notes that early Chinese immigrants themselves referred to their status as "strangers," seeking champions among white Americans to advocate for their rights and integration.
[20:35] Michael Luo: "Asian Americans are in some ways continue to be strangers. But the stranger label applies to many immigrant groups through history, including right now."
Conclusion: A Call for Inclusive History
Michael Luo's "Strangers in the Land" serves as a crucial reminder that Asian American history is an integral part of the broader American narrative. By illuminating the experiences of Chinese immigrants, Luo not only preserves a vital component of national history but also offers valuable insights into ongoing debates about immigration, identity, and belonging in the United States.
Through engaging storytelling and rigorous historical analysis, Luo challenges listeners to recognize and rectify the enduring legacy of exclusion, advocating for a more inclusive and empathetic understanding of America's diverse fabric.
Notable Quotes:
- Michael Luo [03:31]: "Back to your effing country."
- Michael Luo [08:35]: "You know, in any kind of story of migration, there's a push and pull."
- Michael Luo [13:32]: "...Dennis Carney, who is a demagogue-like figure... He would draw thousands and he would end his speeches with this rallying cry, the Chinese must go."
- Michael Luo [15:35]: "Frederick Douglass... he explicitly talked about this, quote, new race that is making its appearance within our borders and claiming attention."
- Michael Luo [17:54]: "When I think about what history can tell us about this moment is it's actually hard when foreign people who speak a different language, look different, come to a society. And it's hard work to not be suspicious..."
- Michael Luo [20:35]: "Asian Americans are in some ways continue to be strangers. But the stranger label applies to many immigrant groups through history, including right now."
Final Thoughts
Michael Luo’s exploration of Chinese American history not only educates but also resonates deeply in today’s socio-political climate. By bridging past and present, Luo invites listeners to reflect on the persistent challenges of immigration and the universal quest for belonging and recognition within the American landscape.