Podcast Summary: "A Year of the War in Ukraine"

The New Yorker Radio Hour – WNYC Studios and The New Yorker
Host: David Remnick
Guests: Sevgil Musaieva (Editor-in-Chief, Ukrainska Pravda), Stephen Kotkin (Historian, Stanford University)
Air Date: February 17, 2023

Overview

This episode, hosted by David Remnick, marks a year since the full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine. It features Sevgil Musaieva, the young, dynamic Editor-in-Chief of Ukrainska Pravda, reflecting on the challenges of running a newsroom during war, and historian Stephen Kotkin, who dissects the geopolitical and historical dimensions of the conflict. Through candid interviews, the episode explores the immense psychological and social toll on Ukrainians, analyzes shifts in global power, and debates what “victory” might mean for Ukraine and the West.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Morale and Loss in the Ukrainian Newsroom

Speaker: Sevgil Musaieva
[00:37 - 06:26]

• Musaieva recounts the deep personal trauma within her newsroom—journalists losing loved ones or joining the fight.
• Despite options to relocate for safety, her staff insists on remaining in Kyiv, upholding a sense of duty and resilience.
• She encourages reporters to process trauma through storytelling, publishing their experiences as a form of collective healing.

"The experience of this war is unique for everyone and everyone reflects and everyone survives this war in his personal way." – Sevgil Musaieva [01:34]

• She stresses the irreparable cultural loss when journalists, producers, and artists are killed in war, emphasizing every Ukrainian life lost diminishes the nation’s future spirit and creativity.

2. The Ukrainian Will to Endure vs. Costs of War

[05:11 - 06:26]

• Musaieva is blunt: Time is not on Ukraine’s side. Every day prolongs suffering and irreplaceable losses, even as resistance continues.

"Every single life for Ukraine matters... The best people in our country—artists, journalists, producers—went to the front line, and some of them are already killed." – Sevgil Musaieva [05:14]

• She articulates a dream for a free Crimea and generational mission: to destroy the legacy (“ghost”) of the Soviet empire and build a truly independent Ukraine.

"I have my personal dream to celebrate... my 50th anniversary in free Crimea together with my kids and my family. This is like a picture… idealistic picture from the future." [06:49]

3. Stephen Kotkin: The Strategic Realities of the War

[10:05 – 29:15]

a. Putin’s War: Strategy or Catastrophe?

• Kotkin offers a striking metaphor: Russia has seized and wrecked part of Ukraine’s metaphorical “house,” damaging even what remains.

"Putin's strategy could be described as: if I can't have it, nobody can have it. And sadly, that's where the tragedy is right now." – Stephen Kotkin [10:58]

• He disputes claims of Putin’s “strategic genius,” noting the war has consolidated Ukrainian identity, damaged Russia’s reputation, and pushed Sweden toward NATO.

b. Surprises: Ukrainian Resistance, Russian Weakness, Global Response

[13:49 – 16:57]

• Ukrainian will to fight and Russian military dysfunction have exceeded and defied many analysts’ expectations.
• European resilience and rapid energy shifts have surprised skeptics.
• Russia’s economy has, however, proven more resilient than anticipated, adapting to sanctions better than expected.

c. Defining Victory: Ukraine, the West, and the Endgame

[16:57 – 21:35]

• Zelensky’s definition of victory—regaining all territory, reparations, war crimes tribunals—is fully justified, but militarily unreachable without radical escalation (i.e., taking Moscow).
• The U.S. aims for Ukraine to remain sovereign and independent, but stops short of maximalist Ukrainian aims.

"Victory is misdefined here... you can win on the battlefield and lose the peace." – Stephen Kotkin [17:23]

• For Kotkin, true victory lies in Ukraine joining the EU, even if it can’t regain all territory. He questions whether Ukrainians and leadership can accept such a trade-off.

"If Ukraine regains all of its territory and doesn't get into the EU, is that a victory?... EU accession would be a victory." – Stephen Kotkin [19:55]

d. The Limits of Western Support and Russian Escalation Risks

[23:04 – 25:34]

• Western support (military and economic) is robust but not limitless, and always calibrated to avoid catastrophic escalation with Russia.
• Kotkin warns against complacency: Russia retains multiple forms of leverage, from conventional to non-nuclear “dirty tricks” (chemical, infrastructural sabotage).
• He supports accelerated support for Ukraine, arguing that Ukrainians deserve a chance at battlefield success—even if eventual negotiations are inevitable.

e. The Social Challenge: Refugees, Reconstruction, and the Brain Drain

[26:53–28:29]

• Millions of Ukrainians have fled; repatriating them and rebuilding the nation will be pivotal, with cost estimates for reconstruction doubling pre-war GDP ($350bn).
• Sustainable victory means not just survival, but national recovery and institutional functioning.

f. The EU Accession Gauntlet

[28:29 – 29:15]

• The EU’s opaque and protracted accession process is critiqued. A tragedy would be failure to honor Ukraine’s sacrifice with meaningful membership.

"There are many forms of torture. EU accession is one of them." – Stephen Kotkin [26:32]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sevgil Musaieva on processing trauma:
  "The best way how to survive during your trauma and how to go through this trauma... is about writing. And I asked them just to share their thoughts, and we published those stories." [03:41]

• David Remnick on the loss of cultural contributors:
  "This producer will not produce wonderful films after that. These journalists will not write his articles. That's why everyone dreams about this war and will end as soon as possible..." [05:23]

• Stephen Kotkin’s “house” metaphor:
  "Let's say that you own a house and it has 10 rooms... I barge in and take two... and from those rooms, I'm wrecking your other eight rooms..." [10:08]

• On sanctions and the Russian economy:
  "It turns out that the Russian people proved extremely adaptable to the sanction regime..." [16:10]

Important Timestamps

• [00:37 – 06:26] — Sevgil Musaieva on the emotional toll, newsroom resilience, and the generational fight for an independent Ukraine
• [10:05 – 13:41] — Stephen Kotkin on the strategic (non-)logic of Putin's war and the impact on Russia and Ukraine
• [13:49 – 16:10] — Surprises of the war: Ukrainian heroism, Russian failures, and Western unity
• [17:17 – 21:35] — Debates on what a “victory” actually means for Ukraine, and the deep problems in defining an achievable endgame
• [23:04 – 25:34] — Limits to Western support, the risks of escalation, and why continued aid is crucial
• [26:53 – 28:29] — Implications of mass Ukrainian displacement and the herculean task of reconstruction
• [28:29 – 29:15] — The arduous EU accession process and its significance for Ukraine’s future

Tone and Style

The episode is marked by gravitas, deep empathy, and a realism that avoids false optimism. Musaieva speaks as both a survivor and witness, focusing on the granular suffering and aspirations of her colleagues and compatriots. Kotkin provides clear, unsparing analysis, using vivid metaphors and historical analogies, often deploying dry humor to underscore bureaucratic challenges (e.g., EU accession).

In summary:
This episode provides a textured, unflinching look at Ukraine’s wartime ordeal from both the human and grand-strategic perspective. It emphasizes not just the military and political stakes, but the profound losses, resilience, and hopes of Ukrainians steeling themselves for a long fight—and the sobering reality that “victory” will require more than battlefield bravery.