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The New Yorker Radio Hour
America at 250: A View from the Streets
00:18:14
We asked Americans what they’re thinking and feeling about the nation’s two-hundred-and-fiftieth anniversary.
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This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC and the New Yorker. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour and I'm Jill Lepore sitting in today for David Remnick. This is the second part of our special episode on America at 250. In the first part, we listen to excerpts from a documentary that asked Americans in the 1970s how they felt about the bicentennial. We have a long way to go, baby. As Billie Jean King might have paraphrased it. I love that style of documentary so much. The tradition that journalists call vox pop that I wanted to hear what it would sound like if we made a piece like that for the Radio Hour today. So we collaborated with an organization of audio storytellers known as Transom. They sent producers to Illinois and California, Louisiana, Vermont, Utah. They went to gas stations and city parks, to malls and street corners, to dairy farms, to listen to us, to Americans. Because here's what I think. You could talk to politicians, you could talk to scholars, pundits, reporters. But what this moment means, I think you'll find that right here we're doing a radio program about the 250th anniversary of America. Can we ask you a couple questions? Sure. Do you have plans to celebrate the 4th of July this year? Of course. Of course. What are you going to do? Probably go see a parade and just be an American. Yeah. How do you feel about being an American right now? I feel great. I personally very proud to be an American. I've been in this country since I was 15 years old. I came from Mexico, from Guadalajara, Javisco. And I was given opportunities. And this is the land of opportunities. And we should remain that way forever and ever. I'm 75 years old. So put that in they pipe and smoke it. What part of New Orleans are you from? I grew up uptown. Do you have any vision of what the country will be like in 50 years? For the three 50 years? Didn't I tell you I was 75 years old? Shit. That's 100 and a quarter. Not that you'll be here, but what would you want it to look like? The United States. What I would want it to look like? Yeah. What do you want it to be like? What I wanted. What would anybody want it to be? What was that James Baldwin said? Black people just want to be. What? Left alone. That's it. Just leave us alone. You know, we're talking everyday Americans, man. Chicagoans. They got me doing the Chicago part, right. Are you a Chicagoan? Oh, yeah, Born and raised. Where at? Southside. And so, man, the country's turning 250 on July 3rd. I'm excited. I'm excited about it. We're gonna have a big party in the yard here. So if you're around, you're welcome to come by. We're gonna have a big barbe. How do you feel about this being the 250th birthday of America? Well, now that I know it's the 250th anniversary, I might do kick back and do a little shimmy or a shake, for sure. I honestly thought it was a little older, to be honest. But, I mean, it's great. I mean. Yeah. What does being an American mean for you? This America? This ain't America for us. I never got the chance to feel a American way. We don't got no first amendment, we ain't got no second. We ain't got no amendments due to the skin color. Why we don't got no piece of that pie. Why we don't got our 40 acres in the mule. You feel me? So for that flag, that's dead to me. But I do appreciate my life here. I do appreciate the people that I run into. That's how I feel about this America. It's not for us. I'm from Alabama. I teach school in Birmingham. I teach seventh grade history. It's my 34th year as a teacher. I think the traditional ideas that we have about our history, that America is the land of the free, the home of the brave. Equality, you know, that's why I tell my kids I believe that Constitution, that I make them learn because it's important. You know, this is the country they live in. And if they don't agree with everything, then grow up and change it. You know, make it what you want it to be. I think freedom is an illusion. I think that we work, we're taxed. We're taxed every which way. My grandkids, my own kids can't afford homes. Their dream is gone, their money's spent. I thought of leaving. Like, where do I go? My ancestors came here. They came from Europe, England mostly. Maybe that's what I need to do and prepare my family to do the same thing. But where is that place? We're gonna have a 250th birthday in this country. Does that mean anything to you? It's like asking me what kind of napkins I want at the birthday party when the house is on fire right now. Like, how am I supposed to give a shit? Like, it's not that I don't like birthday parties. I just. I've gotta put out this fucking fire first. I don't know. You buy whatever napkins you want. So I've got this rash on my arm and it's getting worse, and I feel like I should go to the doctor. But what I did instead today, just now, I work in a grocery store that sells, like, supplements and lotions made out of, like, rosemary and pansies and stuff. And I've started treating the people who sell that stuff the way I should be treating my doctor. And it's like, it's expensive. It's like $14 for a little vial of it. But, you know, that's cheaper than the blank check I'm gonna give to the urgent care that's next to the price chopper. I don't even believe in this stuff, but that's what I can afford. So it's that. That kind of is my health care. Like, one of the reasons I moved to Vermont is because Canada is right there. Like, it's right there. Like, free health care is right there. I just. I just gotta walk through the woods to get. Voices of Americans thinking about the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. More in a moment. The New Yorker Radio hour is supported by AT&T. Summer is great for many reasons. The best reason our plans we made finally making it out of the group chat because there's more time to fit everyone in, whatever you've got in store this summer, capturing those memories is a must. And AT&T has your summer essential in the iPhone 17 Pro. Its center stage front camera auto adjusts the frame to fit everyone into group selfies. You don't even have to turn your phone. No awkward cropping or asking strangers to take it. Just the perfect group selfie every time. And ATT makes sharing those moments with everyone easy because you gotta share the pic or it didn't happen. Right? 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That's what I'd like to see. Red, white and blue. So the flag. The flag is very important to you? Yes. I mean, we're the freest country on earth and nobody seems to know it. Do you feel like your family history is tied up in this country's history? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, my first husband killed in Vietnam, you know, uncles killed in Vietnam, uncles killed in World War II. Yeah. So your family has fought for us. Yes, yes. What does that mean to you? What would it mean to you? I mean, it means everything. Where were you for the bicentennial, boy? I was only five years old, so I can't. I was probably on the farm, didn't ever travel. I, like I said, I didn't ever go anywhere. What is a patriot? Patriot believes in my opinion, that in a moment's notice, if something were to invade this country, they would stand up, grab whatever they had and head for the front line. And do you think you're a patriot? Absolutely. I'd die for my family in a minute. Right. And your country? Absolutely. Why not? If you're dying for your country, you're dying for your family. Right. What do you remember about the West? Sentiment. I was everywhere. I was 10, my parents took me on a long cross, cross country drive, sort of an observation. We went to Philadelphia and Washington and Boston from Peoria, Illinois. That's where you. Yeah, yeah, it was a, it was a fun trip, like a month long. They were both school teachers, so off for the summer we took off with our little pull along camper. I've always been a huge history person and I credit that trip with a lot of it. Wow. Yeah, it was cool. I'm born and raised in the NY ward and I have four siblings that was also raised in the NY ward. Do you see your family's history as being wrapped up in the country's history? Yeah, yeah. My Grandmother, she was 98 when she left us. And just having her start stories on how she would be in the fields with her aunt picking potatoes, cotton, you know, and just trying to make ends meet. Yeah, it's a mural. Can you say more about that mirror? Today, not really having too much wages. You have to work, like three or four jobs just to make ends. Me, what do I do? You know, do I eat? If I eat well, I'm asleep. How does that fit with the story of America? You've been told it don't fit. You know, it don't add up. And yet on the 4th of July, you party with your family. Yes, because it's our story of how we coming over, how we making it and making ends meet. What is freedom meaning to you? It means I've been to jail before, you know what I mean? So freedom is be able to. To walk outside and not have to check in with anybody. And you know what I mean? In 50 years, it'll be 300 years of this country. What do you think our country will look like? Or what do you hope it'll be like? Oh, wow, I don't even think I can imagine what it would be like. I would like to say, you know, I'd see more grass and less buildings, you know, and I feel like in 50 years, it's just going to be like, so much buildings and everything like that. You know, I like trees. I like just hanging in nature. And I think in 50 years, it's not just going to be around here and things like that. Do you have plans for the 4th of July? I do. I am going to ride a horse into the Sierra Nevadas. Oh. Does that feel like an appropriate celebration for the 250th anniversary of the United States? I honestly do. If you've ever been to the middle of the Sierra Nevadas, it's some of the most beautiful land. And I think that the land is something that can unite us. So we are. I mean, what we typically call this. We. We live in Salt Lake City. So what we typically call this is the west desert. And the west desert is quite barren, quite monotone, but still vast and. And beautiful. I applied for citizenship last year and had my interview in December. And now I'm just waiting for the oath ceremony, which is kind of the last formal step. I have never felt anything but optimistic about the future and about becoming a U.S. citizen. And now everything that's going on internationally makes me worried. I came here as a kid. I have always been here legally. You know, I'm an Engineer. I have a master's degree. Like, I am one of the lucky ones, per se. If it's this challenging for me, I can't imagine how everybody else feels. I usually see my family on the fourth of July, but we don't always celebrate it, if that makes sense. Yeah, why not? Sometimes the politics in the country don't make us feel particularly patriotic, but we still like to get together and barbecue and maybe catch some fireworks. Still here just trying to raise my kids and like, make sure that they have a good childhood. I was just discussing with my friend here that we're actually going to get them dual citizenship so, you know, they'll have options to stay here or, you know, move to another country where they have citizenship if they want to. Around 4th of July, summertime. It's about partying, man, having fun, relaxing, enjoying yourself, man. You gotta get away from all this trouble and this hate in the world, man. This is. I don't like it. Respect is the word, sweetheart. Do you feel proud to be an American right now? I feel proud to be an American here. I don't know about on the world stage. I don't know that it means the same things it did when I was younger as far as being able to go to another country and say, oh, I'm an American, we're doing things right. It doesn't feel like we're doing things right right now, but I don't want to be from somewhere else. Do you feel like your family's stories are tied up in the story of our country at all? We come from a Melungeon line, so just honestly a mix of everything. Like, we live in the Appalachian Mountains. My family, like, they never had the chance to finish school or I think I'm the first one to graduate college in my family. So you're all young. Hopefully you'll be around for the 300 year anniversary of our country. In 50 years, what do you think it'll look like? This land, this country? I hope that we'll be thriving, that the working class of the United States is going to be in a much better position. Do you imagine yourself still being in Tennessee? I don't know. I feel like if you want anything to change, you can't abandon ship. To truly make change in an area, you have to stay and fight for progress. It's a process. Sometimes it seems as though we go forward and then we go backward. We go forward and we go backward. But the way I look at going backwards is think about a bow and arrow in order for the bow to go any length, it has to be gone. Go backwards and there's tension in going backwards, but then when you let it go, it springs forward. I think that's possibly where we might be right now in America. We're in another area where we have a lot of tension and a lot of misunderstanding. But eventually we're going to soar forward and truth and righteousness is going to prevail. You know, it always does. Those are the voices of Americans all over the country gathered for us by Transom as part of their Listeners Project. I'm Jill Lepore and this is the New Yorker Radio Hour. David Remnick will be back with you next week. Meanwhile, thanks so much for spending time with me today and happy 250th however you plan to spend the 4th of July. The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Louis Mitchell. This episode was produced by Max Balton, Adam Howard, David Krasnow, Mike Kutchman, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell and Ursula Sommer, with guidance from Emily Bottin. Our collaboration with Transom was produced by Sophie Crane and recorded by Eve Abrams, Scott Carrier, Erica Heilman, Johannes lacour and David Weinberg. Mixing and sound design by Josh Crane. Music by John Evans and Matthias Bossi at Stellwagen Symphonet. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Tsarina Endowment Fund. This is the table, the one with the view. This is how you reserve exclusive tables with Chase Sapphire Reserve. This is your name on the list. This is the chef sending you something he didn't put on the menu. This is 3 times points on dining with Chase Sapphire reserve and a $300 dining credit that covered the citrus, pavlova and drinks and the thing you didn't think you liked until you tasted it. Chase Sapphire Reserve now even more rewarding. Learn more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JPMorgan Chase bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval on Big Lives we take a single cultural icon, people like Jane Fonda, George Michael, Little Richard, and we pull apart the story behind the image. And we do this by digging through the BBC's vast archives, discovering forgotten interviews that change exactly how we see these giants of our culture. We we're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version of our heroes. I'm Emmanuel Joci. I'm Kai Wright and this is Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives wherever you get your podcasts.