An N.Y.P.D. Sergeant Blows the Whistle on Quotas

Summary

Podcast Summary: “An N.Y.P.D. Sergeant Blows the Whistle on Quotas”

The New Yorker Radio Hour
Host: David Remnick
Reporter: Jennifer Gonnerman
Guest: Sergeant Edwin Raymond
Original Air Date: August 24, 2018

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Overview

This episode follows Jennifer Gonnerman’s in-depth interview with Sergeant Edwin Raymond, a Brooklyn-born NYPD officer and a central figure in the “NYPD 12,” a group of whistleblowers who challenged quota-based policing practices in New York City. The episode explores the origins of Raymond’s activism, the ongoing presence of quotas within the department, the impact of “broken windows” policing, and the personal consequences–both supportive and hostile–that have accompanied Raymond’s act of speaking out.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Scene and Raymond’s Background

• Jennifer meets Raymond at Lincoln Terrace Park, Brooklyn, at night, setting the backdrop among local community activity (basketball, cricket, etc.).
• Raymond discusses growing up experiencing NYPD’s racial profiling, which motivated his later activism against police practices.

“I actually purposely chose [Brownsville] because I felt as someone who criticizes bad police policy, you know, I can't go where it's easy. If I don't actually go there to see for myself, then it's just lip service.”
— Raymond (01:49)

Early Encounters with Racism and Policing

• Raymond recounts as a teenager how he was publicly and unjustifiably searched by plainclothes officers—a formative experience:

“I realized at that moment that to those officers, there was no difference between them and me. And the only thing I had in common with them was ancestry and ... race, ethnicity.”
— Raymond (03:02)

Discovering Quotas in Policing

• On his first day after the police academy, Raymond notes the priority was on numbers—arrests, summonses, and stop-and-frisks—not public safety (03:49).
• Summonses are issued for low-level offenses like public drinking/urination; designed to generate revenue and reduce minor court cases (04:50).
• The pressure to hit numbers was unambiguous; officers were expected to meet specific monthly quotas (arrests, summonses, stop-and-frisks) or face disciplinary postings:

“It was straight up, you know, this is what we want. They'll give exact numbers ... and if you didn't meet the quota, you started getting retaliatory posts.”
— Raymond (06:04)

Quota Numbers Example:

• “No less than 2 arrests, 10 summonses, and 10 stop and frisk per month.” (06:50)

Retaliation and Work Culture

• Retaliatory postings: unpopular shifts or assignments meant to punish officers who don’t meet quotas, like guarding a prisoner in a hospital or working at isolated stations (06:25).
• The phenomenon of “ice picking”: making trivial arrests to fulfill quotas.
  • Examples include arresting someone for jelly dripping from a donut or peeling paint on a subway pillar (07:33).

"It all goes back to systemic racism. The fact that what they're enforcing, they can't enforce in Park Slope...but yet here they are in Flatbush, in Crown Heights, in Harlem...enforcing these things.”
— Raymond (07:45)

Department Euphemisms and Denials

• Department uses euphemisms like “address your conditions” or “pay the rent” when referring to quotas (08:26).
• Despite official denials, Raymond affirms that quotas remain, still influencing behavior and promotions (08:47):

“Quotas absolutely still exist. Thankfully, where I work now, there are no quotas. But ... officers from other precincts will approach me and say ... quotas are still a very real way of how the department operates.”
— Raymond (08:47)

After Blowing the Whistle

• After the NY Times Magazine cover story on his lawsuit, Raymond anticipated severe backlash, including fears for his safety, but found worldwide attention and support instead (09:51–10:16).

“I was ready to lose my job. I anticipated anything that can happen, even losing my life. And I hate to have to say losing my life. But let’s be honest…we saw what happened to Frank Serpico.”
— Raymond (09:57)

Impact and Spread of “Broken Windows” and COMPSTAT

• Explanation of COMPSTAT: a data-driven system for evaluating and managing crime—originally intended for serious crimes but resulting in manipulating numbers through minor arrests (10:49–12:23).
• The “broken windows” strategy pioneered by Bratton and exported globally is cited as the origin of widespread quota-based policing:

“When I say Bratton’s cancer, that’s what I’m referring to. The spread of broken windows, quality of life quota policing—it really starts to spread throughout different parts of the nation and different parts of the world.”
— Raymond (13:42)

Cultural Fallout and Fellow Officers’ Reactions

• Many officers expressed private support to Raymond, though public hostility and suspicion remained (“that’s the rat”) (14:48–15:53).
• He reflects on the deeper culture of policing and how challenging the system rarely wins you popularity, even among those who would benefit:

“Cops of all ranks feel personally attacked. So that shocked me, because if you really pay attention, this is actually beneficial for officers ... I thought officers would kind of embrace this more.”
— Raymond (15:53)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Experiencing profiling (03:02): “There was no difference between them and me. And the only thing I had in common with them was ancestry and, you know, race, ethnicity." — Raymond
• Quotas persist (08:47): “Quotas absolutely still exist... quotas are still a very real way of how the department operates." — Raymond
• Retaliation (06:25): “Just train station that's barely frequented, 20 degrees outside, and you're...freezing by yourself.” — Raymond
• Public isolation (15:53): “Cops of all ranks feel personally attacked. ... At first I thought officers would kind of embrace this more.”

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Time-Stamped Highlights

| Timestamp | Segment | Key Point / Quote | |-----------|----------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:49 | Choosing Brownsville | “I can't go where it's easy...” | | 03:02 | Teenage encounter with police | “To those officers, there was no difference between them and me.” | | 06:04 | On explicit quota demands | “There was no ambiguity. It was straight up…” | | 07:33 | ‘Ice picking’ arrest anecdotes | “Stranger than fiction...” | | 08:47 | Quota system persists | “Quotas absolutely still exist.” | | 09:57 | Anticipating consequences | “I was ready to lose my job. ...even losing my life.” | | 10:49 | COMPSTAT and broken windows | “COMPSTAT is something that Commissioner Bratton incorporated…” | | 13:42 | Bratton’s policing worldwide | “That’s what I’m referring to. The spread of broken windows…” | | 14:18 | Still in the department | “That is quite unprecedented, which is why it gives hope...” | | 15:53 | Pushback from colleagues | “Cops of all ranks feel personally attacked...” |

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Podcast Tone and Style

Jennifer Gonnerman’s reporting is probing yet empathetic, inviting Raymond to share professional realities and personal reflections. Raymond’s tone is earnest, reflective, at times indignant, but consistently hopeful about the prospect of reform and the power of speaking out.

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Conclusion

This interview with Sergeant Edwin Raymond offers a rare, insider’s perspective on the persistent realities of quota-based policing—and its deep entanglement with racial bias—in the NYPD. His story encapsulates the personal risks of whistleblowing, the slow pace of institutional change, and the global spread of American policing strategies. Despite backlash, Raymond’s persistence offers hope for like-minded officers and communities seeking justice and reform.

Transcript

[Host/Producer]

From One World Trade center in Manhattan. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of the New Yorker and WNYC studios.

[David Remnick]

Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. The other night in Brooklyn, New Yorker staff writer Jennifer Gonneran met up with Sergeant Edwin Raymond of the nypd.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

It's quite a scene out here.

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Yeah, yeah. Lincoln Terrace is pretty popular. You got basketball. Looks like somewhat of a tournament. Yeah.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

You got cricket here, huh?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Yeah, you know, from Jamaica, Trinidad, Guyana, Barbados, et cetera. Most of the British West Indies, they play cricket.

[David Remnick]

When they met, it was past nine at night, and Raymond had been held up for a few hours, which is certainly not uncommon if you work as a police officer.

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Yeah, there was an incident with missing children, so that kind of extended the day a little bit.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

Which train is that overhead?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

That's a 3 train going towards new lots.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

And you used to work in the trains, right?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Correct. After the police academy, I was assigned to the transit bureau, and I patrolled the rails for seven years.

[David Remnick]

Jen wanted to talk to Sergeant Raymond because he's something of a controversial figure in New York policing. A whistleblower. Raymond joined the force 10 years ago, but in 2015, he and 11 others filed a class action suit against the police department and and its commissioner at the time, William Bratton. The officers became known as the NYPD 12. And the crux of their lawsuit was that the department was using monthly quotas on things like arrests and summons that officers had to meet. And the people who bore the brunt of those quotas, they said, were most often African American and Latino residents in poor neighborhoods. Places like Brownsville in eastern Brooklyn, where Sergeant Raymond currently works.

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

It's a challenging area. The statistics in terms of stop and frisk and quota policing. You know, these are the areas where this stuff is applied the most. I actually purposely chose it because I felt as someone who criticizes bad police policy, you know, I can't go where it's easy. If I don't actually go there to see for myself, then it's just lip service.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

And at what point did you start to. I think there might be something amiss or questionable about some of the practices.

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

You were seeing even before I joined, because of what I experienced, the racial profiling, just the horrible lack of professionalism from cops. I experienced those things, so I already knew something was wrong.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

Was there one moment in particular when you were a teenager growing up that stands in your memory?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Yeah, absolutely. I was 18 years old. I was walking with my girlfriend at the time, and Plainclothes officers jumped out and just threw me to the wall and just started illegally searching me. And they basically emptied my pockets. I left everything on the floor. I was so embarrassed. And on the opposite corner, there were people watching me get searched. And in that crowd were some really. Some folks that were actually. Actually criminals, and they were watching me get searched. And I realized at that moment that to those officers, there was no difference between them and me. And the only thing I had in common with them was ancestry and, you know, race, ethnicity. That's it. There was nothing else. You know, I was. At the time, I was getting ready to go to college. You know, I never smoked the case to, you know, a little underage drinking at the time.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

And then when you actually got into the academy and joined the police force, was there one moment in particular when you just thought, what is going on here?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Or so after the academy, the very first day on patrol is when I saw. I noticed that the lieutenant was fixated on just arrest, summonses and stopping frisk. And, you know, we're working in the transit system. It's after. It's a few years after 9, 11. You know, I'm assuming there's. I mean, obviously there will be times where we have to arrest, summons, and possibly stop and frisk, so it's important to learn those things. But I learned that first day that that's all that mattered.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

Think that's a police helicopter?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

It absolutely is. Once it's hovering like that, that's aviation being called for a job.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

What do you think that means?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

I don't see the searchlight. So they're using the. Probably just a fleet. Someone, you know, could have been a shooting. And they're looking for someone on the rooftop. Yeah, they're circling. Yeah, they're doing a search.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

Let's break it down a little bit. Summonses. What are summonses?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Summonses are basically tickets in lieu of an arrest. So viol things that are violations where instead of overwhelming the court system, the city decides to make money by issuing a summons instead. Things like public consumption of alcohol, public urination, smoking in areas that you're not supposed to smoke, being in the park after dark, you know, innocuous things that are unlawful. But, you know, there's no need to overwhelm the court system for.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

Could we get a summons? We're in the park after dark.

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

The sign has to be there that says, park closes at dusk. So if there's no sign, you're fine.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

Okay. All right. What year did they officially ban quotas in New York?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

So quotas were already unlawful, but there was a new bill that tightened up the loopholes that the department was able to use, and that bill became law in August of 2010.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

And so when you were working in transit and you said you were feeling pressure to get arrests, summonses, stopping for, except what form did the pressure take? Would they say it explicitly? What would they say to you?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Well, yeah, back in 2009, there was no ambiguity. It was straight up, you know, this is what we want. They'll give exact numbers of what they want of each category, and that's all that mattered. And if you didn't meet the quota, you started getting retaliatory posts.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

What would be a retaliatory post?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Just train station that's barely frequented, 20 degrees outside, and you're in an elevated outdoor train station just freezing by yourself. That's one thing. Or the police jargon, sitting on a prisoner in the hospital, meaning guarding a hospitalized prisoner.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

And what was the quota that you were given back then? What were the types of numbers you were expected to hit?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

They wanted 2 and 10 at times. Sometimes it'd be 4 and 21 and 5. But in impact as a rookie, it's usually no less than 2 arrests, 10 summonses, and 10 stop and frisk per month. Per month. What you would get is officers that try to, you know, put that in quotes, get it out the way early so they'll hit the ground running the first week. And yet officers who kind of waited for it to happen organically, and if it didn't, that last few days that they started what we refer to as ice picking, which is just petty. The most innocuous things that they'll criminalize just to meet their numbers.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

What would be an example of ice picking?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Stranger than fiction. Someone biting into a jelly donut. And the hole that you insert the jelly into the donut, jelly oozing out of that hole and falling onto the platform. And the person being arrested for littering, somebody peeling the paint off of the column in the train station, arrested for defacing transit property. It all goes back to systemic racism. The fact that what they're enforcing, they can't enforce in Park Slope, you know, predominantly white areas, Garrett and Beach, you know, Upper west side. But yet here they are in Flatbush, in Crown Heights, in Harlem, Mott Haven, Southside Jamaica, enforcing these things.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

And when this message is being sent down the ranks, what kind of words do they use? What kind of euphemisms do they use.

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

To try to encourage you have to address your conditions, you have to pay the rent.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

What does that mean?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Pay the rent, meet the quota. You know, make ca. Make sure you pay the rent.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

Now, I know if I called the NYPD today and asked them, do you have quotas? They would say, absolutely not. We have no quotas. But is it your sense that quotas still exist in the department?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Quotas absolutely still exist. Thankfully, where I work now, there are no quotas. But since I've taken such a public stance when I'm off duty, sometimes even on duty, officers from other precincts will approach me and say, thank you for what you're doing, and share stories of what's happening today in their respective commands. Quotas are still a very real way of how the department operates. Those numbers are still what's incentivized. People respond to incentives. That officer that wants to make detective or go to a specialized unit doesn't have to be a genius to realize what's going to be respected and allow him or her to make it into that unit, to. To make it to detective.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

And I remember in. It was 2016, right? Opening up the Sunday Times, seeing the COVID of the magazine, and there was your face talking about that lawsuit. You were on the COVID And I thought, how long is this guy really going to last in the department? I mean, I don't. You know, it was such a brave thing to do. I just imagined it might be career suicide.

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

What kind of response did you get from your fellow officers after the piece came out? Were you afraid you were going to lose your job?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

I was ready to lose my job. I anticipated anything that can happen, even losing my life. And I hate to have to say losing my life. But let's be honest. You know, we saw what happened to Frank Serpico. There's no reason why something like that can't happen to me or the others. So.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

But here. But here you are.

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Yeah, still in the department. The article pretty much changed my life. New York Times has a lot of reach, and journalists from all around the world reached out to me. And that's when I really, truly saw just how wide Bratton's cancer had spread as far as Metropolitan Police in London, Gothenburg, Sweden. It was unbelievable. And I started doing more research into Bratton.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

Tell us about comstat. What role does that play in all of this?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

COMSTAT is something that Commissioner Bratton incorporated with the broken window style of policing that he became a big fan of in the early 80s. And basically, when certain major incidents occur, like murders, rapes, grand larcenies, robberies, burglaries, you know, and shootings. When those things occur, the commanding officer is held accountable for addressing those conditions. And that's done in a Compstat meeting. And you see if you were to stop the tape there, it seems like something noble, something good, something that makes sense. But where it becomes problematic is what's accepted as a response in transit. For instance, say we're getting a condition, meaning something serious, like a robbery, a grand loss, something very common in transit. People tend to look into their phones and unfortunately, people who are up to no good snatch the phones and escape as the doors are closing. So say Nulox on the three line. We're getting a lot of phone snatches at 1am as long as you increase arrest at Nulots, be it 3pm, 4pm, school kids who double up through the turnstile together or probably don't have their Metro cards. Just keep arresting a whole bunch of school kids at 4pm and you won't have to answer for the 1am robbery.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

So just showing an uptick in numbers of summonses or arrests in the same location is going to satisfy your bosses.

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Is that pretty much? Yeah.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

When folks were calling you from other countries, were they reporters or activists? And what did they want to know? Why were they reaching out to you?

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Honestly, in the early 90s, crime starts dropping. And as Mayor Dinkins tenure ends and Giuliani's administration starts with Commissioner Bratton, who then implements the Broken windows policing again. Crime that was already plummeting continues to plummet. So Broken Windows pretty much gets the credit for that. This brings a lot of publicity to New York and Bratton. And so what happens is different police departments throughout the nation and world, they send representatives to learn Bratton's strategies in COMSTAT and Quality of Life broken windows policing, and they bring back this type of policing to their respective cities. So when I say Bratton's cancer, that's what I'm referring to. The spread of broken windows, quality of life quota policing, it really starts to spread throughout different parts of the nation and different parts of the world. And when it was reporters from other countries that were reaching out because they had issues in policing in their, in their cities, some of them, they start getting issues with crime. They said, wow, okay, maybe this is responsible for what we're experiencing because, you know, we're experiencing similar things.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

You know, one of the amazing things here about your story is how you somehow managed to flip the script on whistleblowing. And here we are, two years later, you're still on the police force, You've Been promoted to sergeant. It's like the whistleblower who managed to hold onto his job. It almost never happens.

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Yeah, that is quite unprecedented, which is why it gives hope to a lot of officers throughout the nation. Many officers reach out on social media platforms just saying, please, keep pushing on. You know, we're having issues here, although, you know, there's a lot of animosity, hatred, and things to be cautious about. But the support has been overwhelming at the same time.

[Jennifer Gonnerman]

What form does that animosity take, that hatred? Take.

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

At details, meaning like parades or large events where you'd have officers from different parts of the city working together. Officers who recognize me but are not used to seeing me. You'll see just the body language. You see them pointing, some of them whispering, that's the rat. You know, that's the rat. Although I'm speaking about systemic issues, although I'm speaking about the upper echelon who are in a position to change this. Cops of all ranks feel personally attacked. So that shocked me, because if you really pay attention, this is actually beneficial for officers because you don't have to be, you know, that petty officer that's gonna go bother someone that just wants to take a quick shortcut through the park to get home from a late shift, you know? You know, at first I thought officers would kind of embrace this more. I don't know. It's something I'm still learning because, again, if you pay attention, you should be rooting for me. You should be rooting for the NYPD 12. You know.

[David Remnick]

That was Edwin Raymond of the New York City Police Department talking with Jennifer Gonnerman, a staff writer for the New Yorker. The lawsuit by Sergeant Raymond and the NYPD 12 is the subject of a new documentary that's out on Hulu and it's called Crime and Punishment. And that's it for the show today. We hope you'll join us next week and in the meantime, make sure to follow us on Twitter ewyorkerradio. Have a great week.

[Host/Producer]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Alexis Cuadrado. This episode was produced by Alex Barron, Emily Bottin, Ave Carrillo, Rhiannon Corby, Jill Duboff, Calla Leah, Karen Frillman, David Krasnow, Louis Mitchell, Sarah Nix, Stephen Valentino and Richard Yeh, with help from Terence Bernardo, Michelle Moses, Emily Mann and Jessica Henderson. This week we're saying a special thank.

[Sergeant Edwin Raymond]

Thanks.

[Host/Producer]

And a fond farewell to our colleague, Mythali Rao. Good luck across the pond. They're lucky to have you. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Tsarina Endowment Fund.