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The New Yorker Radio Hour
Anna Wintour as Vogue Icon
00:38:32
Vogue is almost synonymous with its longtime editor, Anna Wintour. She talks with David Remnick about choosing a successor, and wearing Prada to the première of “The Devil Wears Prada.”
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Narrator
This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of WNYC studios and the New Yorker.
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David Remnick
Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. The Devil wears Prada 2, which opens next month, may be the most anticipated sequel of the year. After 20 years, it brings Anne Hathaway, Emily Blunt, and Stanley Tucci back with Meryl Streep in the immortal role of Miranda Priestley, the fashion editor inspired by Anna Wintour, the longtime editor in chief of Vogue. In September of last year, Anna joined me on the program to talk about a sea change at Vogue. She was stepping away from running the flagship American edition, and she had just named the young editor, Chloe Mao, as head of editorial content. Wintour is still a defining presence at the company as editorial director of Vogue editions worldwide and chief content officer of Conde Nast, which publishes the New Yorker as well. I've known Anna Wintour for quite a long time, and we met that September morning in our studios at One World Trade Center.
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Anna Wintour
Here I am, a lamb to the slaughter.
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David Remnick
That's exactly what's gonna happen. How are you? Good. Good. So, Anna, we are talking on the day that Conde Nast announced that Chloe Mao is going to succeed you as editor of American Vogue. How do you feel?
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Anna Wintour
I feel great. I love Chloe. I'm very happy for her. She's gonna do a brilliant job. We've worked together for well over. But at the same time, she really had to prove herself. During the interview process, we saw a lot of amazing, amazing candidates. And Chloe consistently came back with the clearest vision and the most original ideas and understanding of what a Vogue in. Well, I don't think we can talk in five, 10 years anymore. In two years is gonna look like. And I.
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David Remnick
What are the specifics?
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Anna Wintour
She understands a newsroom. She understands mediacy. She understands culture. She understands completely that fashion doesn't exist in a vacuum, that it's a result of many different forces, whether it's something that might be happening in music or film or politically, and wants to put it into that kind of a context. Plus, she, you know, she has a great sense of humor. I mean, her story that she thought of this summer called Doge, I mean, it went through the roof with our numbers. And it was so much fun just to look at all those crazy dogs dressed up with earrings and beautiful collars, and celebrities from all over the world were sending their dogs. So, you know, she has a really good balance about what works now.
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David Remnick
Why step aside from American Vogue now? Have you been thinking about this for a long time?
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Anna Wintour
I have been thinking about it for some time, and it felt like this was the right time because we're seeing so much change in fashion when we go off to the shows. Well, actually, I think they start next week. I believe there's well over 40 new creative directors in very high level positions all over Europe and some here. So it seemed like a good moment to bring in someone with a different perspective and a different generation who could look at things in a new way.
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David Remnick
Now, at first, in 1988, you burst on the scene as the new Vogue editor by putting somebody on the COVID with a pair of jeans on. In fact, I noticed that Chloe was wearing jeans. She was in her photograph on the Vogue website. Was she maybe signaling something?
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Anna Wintour
I think that picture was taken a while ago. But she looked great. And similarly to Chloe. I had been working at Vogue as creative director before I took the position as at American Vogue and also at British Vogue. So I also had some history. And I think that's a very helpful way to start a new job, to understand how things work, who the people are, how decisions are made. And maybe you want to do things in a different way, but just having that is a huge advantage.
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David Remnick
So you have this odd situation now. You are not leaving your office, your physical office. You've got two huge jobs at Conde Nast where you're the editorial of. Well, of everything. And you've got a lot going on, whether it's the Met gala or your other interests and family and all this. But you're right there. And your successor is down the hall. And Chloe said this to the Times today, the truth is that no one's going to replace Anna. And so you're gonna be right down the hall. And the Times wrote that both women have acknowledged the strangeness of this arrangement. How will this work?
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Anna Wintour
Well, I think I implicitly trust Chloe and I want her to succeed to the best possible degree. I think that she is beloved by her team. I think that she will require from all of us, not just me, from everybody. And from our editors group, from everybody here at Conde Nast. I think she'll. And she's the kind of editor that welcomes that. She doesn't work in any way in isolation. She's very open, she's very communicative. Her office is always full of people. She's very outgoing.
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David Remnick
But will you be in her head, is what I mean. In other words, will she be trying to edit? I don't think it please you, or do you?
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Anna Wintour
I absolutely don't think so. I think she's very much her own person. She has her own point of view.
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David Remnick
I mean, how does it differ?
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Anna Wintour
She's. I think she looks at things with a more. What's the right word? Not eccentric, quirky, unusual point of view. She comes at things from different angles. She's interested in fashion, but not obsessed with it. So that there are many levels that will weigh into her decisions. I think that she will not be drawn into. I don't like this word, but a fashionista conversation. I think that she will be able to step back and look at things in a very healthy context.
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David Remnick
Has the fashionista conversation dissipated and disappeared in the contemporary world?
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Anna Wintour
I think it exists very much in certain circles. And I think that what I love about Chloe is that she's an insider, but she's also an outsider.
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David Remnick
What you're saying is she doesn't want to be an Anna Mini Me?
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Anna Wintour
No, not at all. And that was very clear during the interview process and all the conversations that we've had. She wants to be her own person. I think she's not interested in those kinds of comparisons. She just wants to be herself and show herself and prove herself and make news, as I'm sure she will.
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David Remnick
So when you took over Vogue, Vogue had this immensely central place in this very big business and in the fashion discussion. And now we live in an age of Instagram, TikTok, the technological democratization of fashion itself. And God knows what role AI is going to play. So how is her job different from yours?
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Anna Wintour
Well, I look on Vogue as being the world's biggest fashion influencer. If you look at our reach from a social perspective, American Vogue alone has well over 50 million followers. If you look at the numbers that we receive on our site or on our app, or the way whatever we may be putting across any of our platforms are received or seen or heard, that the influence is immeasurable. So I think in a way, Chloe has a much bigger platform than I had when I came in. I always remember Alex Lieberman telling me,
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David Remnick
editorial director in those days.
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Anna Wintour
Editorial director, wonderful figure, my mentor and my boss for many years that they would go to Jones beach in the afternoons. Cause there wasn't that much to do. Can you imagine that, David?
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David Remnick
I really cannot.
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Anna Wintour
So I don't think that Chloe will be spending any of her time at Jones beach in the afternoon. But I actually think if I remember when I started at American Vogue and it was solely a print publication with, you know, a few events and genteel sort of parties that we had to go to, now she has all these different ways of talking to our audiences, whether it's Through Social or TikTok. TikTok or print or events which are a huge part of what we think about today, or, you know, any of the many, many ways that we reach our audiences. How amazing, how exciting, how interesting, how culturally relevant is it? And it's so fascinating to see how much Vogue means to our world. I mean, I was flooded with emails this. It does mean a lot to people within the fashion world and without. And it's a great honor and it's a great responsibility.
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David Remnick
You mentioned print. When I started in 1998 at the New Yorker, I thought I was about to lose my job within a month. Cy Newhouse, of course, owns the joint and ran Conde Nast completely and thoroughly in those days. Asked to have lunch with me at his apartment. Usually we went to some restaurant and I thought, well, this is a world record. You've really done it. And he took out.
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Anna Wintour
Was it a yellow pad?
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David Remnick
He took out a yellow pad. And we were losing money at that point, I won't say how much, but it was not insubstantial. And he said, you know, if we went from weekly to bi weekly, we would save millions and millions of dollars and we would suddenly become profitable. And then he said something that I'll never forget. He said, but it's your decision. It was the editor's decision to make this very consequential. And I decided pretty quickly that that would signal, in fact, something terrible. Not only it would be terrible for the New Yorker, it would be terrible for business, is that it would signal the life magazinization of the New Yorker. We live in a very different time now. The Internet was not in play then. What does print mean going forward for Vogue? Chloe, in fact mentioned that she wants to have fewer print editions. Why?
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Anna Wintour
Well, I think we all look at print as something that is collectible and something you might want to archive and hold onto. And I think it also has to represent a news breaking moment. Like you need a reason to put somebody on the COVID for any of the stories that you might be running inside. And I think. I think that's what Chloe was talking about, that it has to feel in a way more important, more substantial and separate from the day to day news breaking stories that we put up on your site or our site.
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David Remnick
But it's not purely a decision about decline of print advertising or it's not a purely business decision.
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Anna Wintour
I think it's the right decision. And I think there's a lot of different factors that play into it. And obviously, it's something that we all need to think, sit down and talk about, and figure out what the right path is going forward. But I think it comes from the idea that print has to feel more substantial, more important. I mean, it's our Runway show. If you think about how many people actually go to a Vuitton fashion show, it's between four and 800 people, but then it goes out to millions and millions. And I think instantly, by instantly on livestream, whatever it may be. And I think print has that same responsibility. You're giving a message, you're making news, you're giving your vision. But it doesn't necessarily have to be over and over again many, many times a year. I mean, I think most of the big designers probably have six or seven shows a year, which is already a lot.
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David Remnick
You're a very politically engaged person and a very politically aware person. And it's no news to you that the world right now is in so many ways in really bad condition. How do you make a case that fashion is important in the midst of all that?
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Anna Wintour
Well, I think fashion is always important. It's a question of self expression and a statement about yourself and, you know, whether it's a loud logo you might choose to put on yourself or something with a color. So I think fashion can say so many different things, and forgive me, David, but how boring would it be if everybody was just wearing a dark suit and a white shirt all the time? I think people are individuals and they ought to be able to express themselves, and it's a form of creativity. And that's why we need fashion and we need great designers.
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David Remnick
For decades, you've been known as the editor with exacting control over every spread. Every.
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Anna Wintour
Is that very much exaggerated?
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David Remnick
Is it?
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Anna Wintour
Yes.
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David Remnick
I don't buy that you don't say yes or no on everything that's in
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Anna Wintour
Vogue up to a point. I mean, you know, I oversee so many different Vogues now that it's impossible to have that kind of detail. I think it's really important to surround yourself with people whom you admire and that you respect. I really rely on the editors that we have there to. I can say, I don't think this looks so great, but they can come right back and say, this is what will work in this culture.
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David Remnick
So what I mean is, how deeply do you get into other Vogue's other magazines, either here in the United States or around the world?
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Anna Wintour
Yeah, I mean, I. How granular in terms of Vogue? I look at every print issue before it goes to what's hypothetically called the press.
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David Remnick
Thank you.
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Anna Wintour
And, you know, I will look at their sites. I can't understand all the languages, I look at all their social media, but it's. And I will make suggestions and call and say, are we sure about this? Or why aren't we doing that? But, you know, there's no way that you can keep up with every single platform across all the territories. But I certainly keep my eyes out.
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David Remnick
Did you ever feel like along the way, did you have a time or a year or a moment? You think, enough with this. I can do a lot of things. I just.
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Anna Wintour
Enough, Actually, no, David, because I love what I do. And I grew up, as you know, in a family of journalists where we were always being dragged home from vacation holidays, as we would say in the uk, because some news was happening. And in those days, you couldn't do email or zooms. You had to be there. And my dad was someone who always had to be there. He had to be in the newsroom. And that was actually exciting in a way. And our house was full of journalists and politicians and interesting people. And I find that today just as exciting and just as interesting. And I'm always more interested in looking forward than looking back. I do think sometimes we spend too much time on nostalgia.
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David Remnick
How do you mean?
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Anna Wintour
I think people always ask, what was that based on? Or what was your inspiration? And sure, people have inspirations and they have unconscious thoughts in their heads, but true creative design, I'm talking about the fashion world, true creative designers. And I'm sure it's same with your world. It's original, it comes from their mind, not from somebody else's mind. Maybe they had some influences, but the idea is theirs. And when I work with Andrew Bolton, who's the chief curator at the Metropolitan Museum, we work very closely together every year on the Met exhibitions. And it's so fascinating and exciting and interesting to see how his mind works and how the ideas form. And yes, he reads a lot, he looks at a lot, but in the end, the original thinking is entirely Andrew's. So to me, that that's a great artist.
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David Remnick
I wonder how you felt when Alexandria Ocasio Cortez arrived at the Met Ball in a white dress slathered with the slogan tax the rich.
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Anna Wintour
Yes, well, I'll tell you a story about that, David. She was actually sitting at my table, and I stand in the receiving line and I don't see the people arriving on the carpet. I don't have a secret livestream coming being zoomed into my earphone. I'm just standing there shaking everybody's hands and saying, thank you for coming, blah, blah, blah. So I said, you know, thank you for coming. And she went by. And then I went up to her before we all sat down and I said, I just love your dress. Cause I'd only seen her from the front. And it wasn't until the next day that I understood what had happened. So fortunately, I had a wonderful evening.
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David Remnick
And when you saw it later, how did you feel?
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Anna Wintour
Well, it's something going back to what we were talking about before. I think everybody uses fashion in different ways. And obviously that was something that was important to her.
- [17:48]
David Remnick
This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, and I'm speaking today with Anna Wintour. We'll continue in just a moment.
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Narrator
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- [18:36]
David Remnick
You know, every day on Up First, NPR's Golden Globe nominated Morning News Pod. We bring you three essential stories. the heart of each story are questions what really happened? What really mattered? What happens next? At npr, we stand for your right to be curious and to follow the facts. Follow up first wherever you get your podcasts and start your day knowing what matters and why. Years ago, when I was new at the job of editing a magazine, I asked one of Anna Wintour's deputies why she commanded such respect. The answer was it's because she knows what she wants. Over time, I learned what that meant. It wasn't that she knew everything or knew better than everybody, but she had a clear sense of what she wanted her publication to be about. And she had a determination, particularly now, when the media business is unpredictable, to put it mildly, how to figure out the future, to make things work, to make mistakes, and yet try again. Wintour comes from a distinguished journalism family. Her brother is an editor and reporter, and her father was editor of a London newspaper. He helped steer Anna into a career in fashion, and she began working as a teenager. Your father was at the London Evening Standard?
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Anna Wintour
Yes.
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David Remnick
Your brother is, is he back from Iran?
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Anna Wintour
He just came back, yes. Safely.
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David Remnick
Thank you. Is that The Guardian, yeah. Journalism is in your. And you found your place in it. God knows how did. The most interesting part of any biography for me is not the later big triumphs, as interesting as they can be, but how somebody becomes themselves in a sense, how they invent themselves. When you think about that, how you became the Anna Wintour that at least the public knows and understands. Where do you think that all came from?
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Anna Wintour
I think I was so lucky, as we were discussing before in my upbringing and meeting all these people and knowing that I wanted to work in journalism, in media, but being very aware of my father's success in Fleet street, as it was then called in Fleet street, and not wanting to be part of his world and trying to make my own mark and filling out all those stupid school forms that you have to do and asking my dad, well, what shall I fill in? When you write what you want to be, this is a true story. He said, well, you just write you want to be editor of Vogue. And so, yes.
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David Remnick
Age.
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Anna Wintour
What, I don't know, 13. So I wrote that in, and then I felt confident. And, yes, this was something that I could work towards. And the other thing. Working. My first job's working in London. Like, there's no money, there's no staff, there's no teams. You have to learn how to do everything.
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David Remnick
What was the job?
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Anna Wintour
I worked my first job. I worked at Harper's Queen, and I was in the fashion department. And you had to cover the market, go on shoots, write the captions, lay it out, go to events, go to the shows. It was just, you know, the original sort of multitasker. And I think.
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David Remnick
But you have to know how to operate a needle and thread. Sewing.
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Anna Wintour
Yeah. I was never any good at that. Never any good at that. Yes. Awful. But so when I came to the States and, you know, there was a shoe editor and an underwear editor and a fabric editor. It was also siloed. I felt very confident because I sort of knew how to do everything and that that was the best training.
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David Remnick
But wait, you determined your final. Not final destination, as it turns out. It was helpful at that early age. I'm going to be the editor of Vogue, which is a little bit like saying, I'm gonna play shortstop for the Yankees. And that was Derek Jeter.
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Anna Wintour
Well, it was a goal. It wasn't, you know, it was a goal to work towards. And obviously there were many ups and downs along the way, including getting fired from Harper's Bazaar, because I was told I would never understand the American market.
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David Remnick
So tell me about the Firing.
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Anna Wintour
It was very brief. It was very brief. Very brief.
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David Remnick
The conversation.
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Anna Wintour
Very, very brief.
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David Remnick
What was the start? We've all done it. How do you do it?
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Anna Wintour
How do I try and be kind and thoughtful and, you know, listen to what people have to say? But I was not given that. I was basically told to leave, so. But I think everyone should be fired once. You've probably never been fired, David, but it is.
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David Remnick
I think I had two jobs.
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Anna Wintour
So far, so good, but it helps you get everything into proportion. And pick myself up. And eventually landed at New York magazine, where my multitasking really came into full use because there wasn't anyone there that understood anything that I was. That I was doing. And I was very lucky to work for Ed Kozner, who was a wonderful editor and gave me free rein. And that's where I caught Alexander Lieberman, the editorial director of Conde Nast I and then moved over to American Vogue.
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David Remnick
I hope this is not a sexist question, but maybe we could ask it of men, too. I hope we do. How did you develop your look and why?
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Anna Wintour
Well, for my hair, it was always pretty much this way. And then it's not a Louise Brooks influence, anything. British hairdresser decided they were gonna experiment on me and they cut it into three layers and it was honestly the worst haircut you've ever seen in your entire life. So I think I wore a hat for a year, and then after that I resolved not to cut my hair except this way ever again. And I mean, the glasses, just because I'm very short sighted, but they also help me get through situations.
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David Remnick
Were you bored to death?
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Anna Wintour
You said that, not me.
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David Remnick
I did. I think I'm going to take it up. Another thing that you are known for is your ability to do about 3,000 things in a given day. Give me how your days typically go. When do you get up? What do you do and how is it carried out?
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Anna Wintour
Well, I get up really early, 4:35 o', clock, and I read online, the papers, all the English papers and the Times. And then I have a lovely walk through Washington Square park where you see a very interesting slice of life and go to the gym and then I run back.
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David Remnick
And then you were a runner when you were a kid, right?
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Anna Wintour
Yeah, I was, yeah. My grandfather was a very, very fast runner. He ran for Harvard. And I was always being encouraged to run, to go into serious training, but I just. I didn't take that path. It was the 60s in London, so I took another path. I took another path, many other paths. And then you know, I go to the office, and then the day starts.
- [25:32]
David Remnick
And then the day starts.
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Anna Wintour
Mm.
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David Remnick
And you've said you'd never write a book about your life. Why is that?
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Anna Wintour
Never? I don't think I'm that interesting. And.
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David Remnick
Okay, that's where you're wrong.
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Anna Wintour
Thank you, David. But I really. I don't. I just. It's not a story I want to
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David Remnick
tell you because it's too personal, it digs too deep. Or is. You're bored with it. You're bored with the past.
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Anna Wintour
The past is done, and I can't rewrite it. And of course, there's lots of wonderful things about it, too, but it's just not something that is of any remote interest to me. Are you ever gonna write the story of your life, David?
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David Remnick
I don't think so.
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Anna Wintour
There you go.
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David Remnick
I'd like to learn something new, like Chinese or something. So there was a time that even unschooled people like me knew about, or a little bit about. Designers of huge influence at least knew their names or a kind of sketch of what they did. Lagerfeld, Miuccia Prada, who's still very much around. Galliano, Marc Jacobs, still much around. Suddenly, nearly all the fashion houses are led by young or younger designers whose names are not particularly or they will be.
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Anna Wintour
And many of them are.
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David Remnick
And not many are women either.
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Anna Wintour
No, that's.
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David Remnick
So how do you assess this new scene? That.
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Anna Wintour
Well, it's one moves, and then it's like a pack of cards. Then why? Well, because one designer goes from A to B, and then that leaves an opening, and then somebody else is slotted in, and then there's another opening. But it is totally true that this is the first time that I can ever remember where we had so many openings in so many high profiles, high profile houses. But it's also incredibly. And I think it will be a very creative moment because if you talk to these designers, of course, they're very aware that they're all making their debuts in the next few weeks. So all eyes, not just on them, but on all of them. And I think they will all make each other better.
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David Remnick
Who are you most keenly watching?
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Anna Wintour
All of them. I mean, I think they all bring different. Different points of view. Some degrees of experience, some brand new, some less known, some known. But what I think is great about all of them is that they are very original thinkers. And I think that they will not be defined. They will respect, but they will not be like Chloe. They will respect, but not be defined by their past. I think Jonathan Anderson at Dior is gonna be. Have an incredible show, an incredible run at D. I'm very, very excited to see Mathieu Blasi at Chanel. He was at Bottega before. And Jack and Lazaro, who are Americans going to l'. Ove. So, I mean, those are just three. I mean, Sarah Burton, a woman at Givenchy, she worked for McQueen for so many years. Louise Trotter at Bottega, I mean, it's just a long, long list. And then there's the designers like Demna, that was at Balenciaga, has now gone to Gucci. And Pier Paolo, who was a Valentino, has now gone to Balenciaga. So it's, you know, it's. The carts have been shot, snakes and ladders everywhere.
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David Remnick
My colleague Rebecca Mead recently profiled Jonathan Anderson, who's now, as you say, at Dior. And he told Rebecca that he prefers to think of fashion houses not as luxury bastions, but as cultural brands. That there's a. He says luxury is elitist and he wants to keep luxury at arm's length. He told her, how do you view luxury at this point? Is it something that you embrace? Is it something that.
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Anna Wintour
Well, I hate that word, don't you?
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David Remnick
Well, it rarely enters my thinking, but go ahead.
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Anna Wintour
It doesn't mean anything. It seems like a sort of dated.
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David Remnick
It sounds to my ear like expensive.
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Anna Wintour
Yeah. And it feels dated to me. And something that I think I like the idea of creativity. And what does that mean? And how you bring in a community in all kinds of different levels, whether it's couture or Runway or a pair of sneakers. You're investing in somebody's creativity and vision. And to me, that's much more interesting than the idea of luxury. I mean, I don't really even know what that word means. It's so overused. I think it's lost its heart.
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David Remnick
In some ways. It might be an illusion, but the economy is riding pretty high. And yet a lot of fashion houses are very anxious about the economy.
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Anna Wintour
Well, there's many reasons for that. I mean, I think, first of all, there's been so much change that I think a lot of the normal customers are waiting. Cause they want to wait and see what the new designers are going to bring. They don't want to seem like they're behind or they're not in step with whatever direction a designer might be going. Or they were someone who liked what the old designer did, and they're not sure yet about the new one. So there are lots of different reasons. But I also think that the industry has been very hard hit by the tariffs and all this.
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David Remnick
So Trump's tariffs are going to affect things.
- [30:51]
Anna Wintour
Already have already, because people would move their businesses out of China and into India. And then you saw what happened in India. So it's hard to be able to plan long term. And also, the fashion industry already has 12.5% tariffs on a lot of what they produce. So to stack it again is going to make it even more difficult, particularly for the smaller businesses.
- [31:17]
David Remnick
You have made Vogue a political magazine in many ways over the years, and you yourself are a political person. You've been involved in fundraising and more for Hillary Clinton and for the Democratic Party in general. Tell me about that decision.
- [31:35]
Anna Wintour
I think my personal values are very important to me, and I also have tried to be balanced in our coverage, and I also believe that what I believe many of our audiences do as well. So it's a tough time for Democrats. There's no question. And hopefully somebody will emerge in the not too distant future that will challenge our current administration. Well, I've been impressed by Governor Newsom. I think he's certainly making a stand. And obviously, I'm sure there'll be many other candidates that will emerge hopefully soon.
- [32:19]
David Remnick
Hopefully soon. It seems pretty grim at the moment, though.
- [32:23]
Anna Wintour
Well, we have time.
- [32:28]
David Remnick
There was a movie that you may have heard of called the Devil Wears Prada. And at first, and we didn't know each other very well. When that came out, Conde Nast had a kind of different alignment than it does now. And I should say it's changed largely because of you and having editors meetings. And the editors got to know each other a lot better than they used to, which is a gift. When that first came out. Were you hurt by it, and then you seemed to embrace it in a certain way?
- [32:56]
Anna Wintour
Well, I went to the premiere wearing Prada, completely having no idea what the film was going to be about. And I think that the fashion industry were very, very sweetly concerned for me about the film, that it was gonna paint me in some kind of difficult light.
- [33:20]
David Remnick
But cartoonish.
- [33:21]
Anna Wintour
Yes. Caricature.
- [33:23]
David Remnick
Yeah.
- [33:24]
Anna Wintour
But first of all, it was Meryl Streep, which. Fantastic. And then I went to see the film, and I found it highly enjoyable and very funny. So much. And I talk about it a lot.
- [33:37]
David Remnick
Mutual Prada. Yeah.
- [33:38]
Anna Wintour
And I say to her, well, it was really good for you. And you can imagine what she says back. But, you know, in the end, no, I can't.
- [33:46]
David Remnick
What did she say back?
- [33:48]
Anna Wintour
But no, I think, listen, it had a lot of humor to it, it had a lot of wit. It had Meryl Streep. I mean, it was Emily Blunt. I mean, they were all amazing. And in the end, I thought it was a, a fair shot.
- [34:04]
David Remnick
At a certain point, celebrities came to the COVID of Vogue. Was that something you did with hesitation? You did it pretty early on. I think Madonna might have been one of the first.
- [34:15]
Anna Wintour
One of the first, Yeah. I felt that times were changing, that time was different, and that our audiences, our readers were looking at fashion not just through the lens of a model, as was primarily on the COVID before that. Although, of course, if you think back to the days of Mrs. Vreeland and others, they did, you know, they had people like Candice Berg and Chloe's mother,
- [34:48]
David Remnick
or Clay, the editor of Vogue on
- [34:50]
Anna Wintour
Sex and the City, or Mia Farrow. I mean, it wasn't unheard of. But I think that we, we recognized a change. We saw a change. And Madonna, of all the many celebrities that we've had on the COVID of Vogue, she certainly loved and epitomized fashion and was fearless with it and had fun with it. And it just felt like the right time. And I remember being on this plane and sitting next to a straight laced, straight, wearing a suit gentleman. And he asked me what I did and I was telling him and he said, well, Vogue means to me Audrey Hepburn, Katharine Hepburn, never Madonna. And that made me think, time to change.
- [35:35]
David Remnick
What are you most proud of having published at Vogue?
- [35:39]
Anna Wintour
I couldn't possibly choose one piece or one story or one cover, David. I think it was very, it was quite moving being in the meeting this morning talking to all my colleagues about how I felt about Chloe and what a great job that she was doing. And I think the thing I'm the most proud of is bringing in over so many years different talent, writers, photographers, videographers, editors to Vogue. I mean that to me, and I'm sure you feel to some degree the same way. It's about who you surround yourself with entirely. And in the end, that's by far the most important accomplishment to me.
- [36:27]
David Remnick
Were you emotional at this meeting?
- [36:30]
Anna Wintour
Well, I've been thinking about it for such a long time, but no, I was actually thrilled and excited and happy for Chloe and excited for myself to look at things in a different way.
- [36:45]
David Remnick
Does it mean that you'll have more free time? I can't imagine Anna Wintour with free time.
- [36:51]
Anna Wintour
Well, I think I'll have only two jobs now. Yes, two jobs. Two jobs. But I am remaining full, fully committed as theater and tennis advisor to Vogue. That's Gonna be my next big chapter.
- [37:05]
David Remnick
Okay, I'm holding you to that. Now, I think we're now ready for what we call the lightning round. Are you ready?
- [37:11]
Anna Wintour
Yes, of course.
- [37:11]
David Remnick
Okay, who is the greatest fashion designer of your era?
- [37:15]
Anna Wintour
As editor, David, I only look towards the future.
- [37:19]
David Remnick
What was the most triumphant or influential fashion show of that era?
- [37:23]
Anna Wintour
Ditto.
- [37:25]
David Remnick
Most lamentable fashion trend of your era?
- [37:29]
Anna Wintour
DayGlo.
- [37:30]
David Remnick
Okay, true or false? Jeff Bezos was interested in buying Conde Nast.
- [37:35]
Anna Wintour
Well, actually, I heard that he called you about that false good turn.
- [37:40]
David Remnick
You are actually just as true or false. You are actually thrilled when assistants move at a glacial pace.
- [37:47]
Anna Wintour
Nobody at Vogue moves at a glacial pace. Least of all my assistants.
- [37:52]
David Remnick
This is the most important question of all. Anna. Finally, I wore a decent shirt and an actual jacket today in deference to you and the occasion. But still, I think it's fair to say that I'm not known for my impeccable sense of style. Anna, is it hopeless? Where can I possibly begin?
- [38:09]
Anna Wintour
David, I'm very touched that you wore a jacket, but I really like you in those New Yorker sweatshirts.
- [38:14]
David Remnick
There I was, living up to the sartorial standards of the late Cy Newhouse.
- [38:19]
Anna Wintour
Thank you for having me, Anna.
- [38:21]
David Remnick
Thank you. Anna Wintour is global Editorial Director of Vogue and chief Content Officer of Conde Nast. Our conversation was recorded last September. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. Thanks for joining us. See you next time.
- [38:42]
Narrator
The new yorker radio hour is a co production of wnyc studios and the new yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by meryl garbus of tune yards, with additional music by louis mitchell. This episode was produced by max balton, adam howard, david krasnow, jeffrey masters, louis mitchell, jared paul and ursula sommer. With guidance from emily bottin and assistance from michael may, david gable, alex barish, victor golf swan, and alejandra deckett.
- [39:11]
Anna Wintour
We had additional help this week from pran bandy.
- [39:14]
Narrator
The new yorker radio hour is supported in part by the cherina endowment fund.
- [39:28]
David Remnick
Did you know that the New Yorker Radio hour is on YouTube? Well, you can listen to the show on any podcast platform. And now you can also watch our our biggest interviews on The New Yorker's YouTube page.