Podcast Summary: "Astrid Holleeder’s Crime Family"

Podcast: The New Yorker Radio Hour
Host: David Remnick
Guests: Astrid Holleeder, Patrick Radden Keefe, Peter de Vries, Sonja Holleeder
Date: March 17, 2020

Overview:

This episode delves into the extraordinary and harrowing story of Astrid Holleeder, a Dutch criminal defense lawyer whose brother, Willem "Wim" Holleeder, became one of Europe’s most infamous gangsters. Through interviews with Astrid and those familiar with the case—including The New Yorker’s Patrick Radden Keefe and crime reporter Peter de Vries—the episode explores the dynamics of a crime family marked by violence, betrayal, and complex family loyalties. The narrative traces the family's entanglement in the notorious Freddy Heineken kidnapping, the rise of Willem as a celebrity criminal, and Astrid’s ultimate decision to betray him in a bid to stop further bloodshed.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Holleeder Family’s Dark Legacy

• Turbulent Upbringing:
  • Astrid remembers a violent, unpredictable home dominated by her father’s alcoholism and abuse.
    • "Coming home drunk, drinking all day, all night... beating us up, beating my mother up. We never knew what to expect, because there was no logic." – Astrid Holleeder [03:49]
  • The family was deeply embedded in Amsterdam's rough Jordaan neighborhood, surrounded by crime and deprivation.

2. The Heineken Kidnapping (1983)

• Connection to the Victim:

  • The Holleeder patriarch worked for Heineken, meaning the family was raised with a deep association to the company and its owner.
    • "Everything in our house was drenched with the company... We also enjoyed the beer of Mr. Heineken. My father was an alcoholic, but he was very cruel." – Astrid Holleeder [03:16]

• Shock and Betrayal:

  • Astrid recalls disbelief when it emerged her brother was behind the abduction.
    • "I never expected him to have done that." – Astrid Holleeder [06:44]

• Execution and Aftermath:

  • The sophisticated nature of the crime and the payment of a massive ransom elevated the case to international headlines.
  • Willem and his accomplice, Cor van Hout (who was also dating Astrid’s sister Sonja), were eventually caught but later became notorious celebrities, benefiting from their criminal legend.

3. The Making of Celebrity Criminals

• From Prisoners to Folk Heroes:

  • Willem and Cor only served part of their sentence, then used unrecovered ransom money to invest in Amsterdam’s red-light district enterprises, living lavishly.
    • "They bought like real estate…prostitution…gambling halls…beautiful cars. Not in their names, of course…it was all in names of other people." – Astrid Holleeder [09:54]

• Astrid's Career:

  • Stigmatized by her family name, Astrid leverages her background and understanding to become a successful criminal defense attorney.
    • "I understood my clients. I understood the mothers…the children. So to me, criminal law was…yeah, it was me." – Astrid Holleeder [12:00]

4. Betrayal within the Family

• Cracks in Trust:

  • The assassination attempts on Cor create suspicion within the family.
  • Despite outward harmony, Astrid and Sonja come to believe that Willem orchestrated Cor’s murder.

• Living in Fear:

  • The sisters are terrorized, struggling with the morality and risk of reporting their brother.
    • "Knowing you have to just undergo this because if you do otherwise you would accuse him. And if you would accuse him, then he would probably kill us too." – Astrid Holleeder [16:20]

5. Life Under Threat and Decision to Turn Informant

• Willem as a Public Figure:

  • While Willem is seen as a 'cuddly criminal' in the public eye, the sisters know him to be extremely dangerous.
  • The family’s fear extends to their children’s safety.

• Turning Point:

  • Astrid becomes an informant to prevent further killings, despite extreme personal risk.
    • "I couldn't live on with the thought that he would kill again. So that's when I turned on him…The only thing we would have left...was take the rights into our own hand and shoot him…But my daughter didn't want me to." – Astrid Holleeder [22:22]

• Recording Evidence:

  • Astrid and Sonja covertly record conversations with Willem, gathering vital evidence despite constant fear of discovery.
    • "…I had it stuck between…the front of my bra…if it would fall on the ground…he would kill me immediately." – Astrid Holleeder [23:15]

6. The Aftermath: Life in Hiding

• Ongoing Danger:

  • Even after Willem’s arrest in 2014 for multiple murders (including Cor’s), Astrid lives precariously: moving between safe houses, disguising herself, and traveling in armored vehicles.
    • "I'm like 52, and I don't really have a place of my own." – Astrid Holleeder [25:34]

• Complex Emotions:

  • Despite everything, Astrid struggles with the guilt and emotional toll of testifying against her brother.
    • "I think it's awful what I do to him because he will be imprisoned for life…thinking about that being the person that sends him away for life, well, that’s an agony every day." – Astrid Holleeder [26:40]

• Familial Love Endures:

  • In a poignant exchange, Astrid (and Sonja) acknowledge their lingering love and sorrow for their brother.
    • "That I still love him in spite of everything. That I wish I could take him home. That he could be a brother to me." – Astrid Holleeder [28:17]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the family’s violent environment:
  • "Most of the men that I know from my family are dead…it’s not many people that are still alive…because they were shot." – Astrid Holleeder [00:38]
• Willem's chilling intimidation:
  • "Do I have to do it right now? You know what is going to happen. You can call the police, but it won’t help you." – Willem Holleeder (relayed by Peter de Vries) [21:37]
• On enduring love:
  • "That I still love him in spite of everything. That I wish I could take him home." – Astrid Holleeder [28:17]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Introduction & Astrid’s Family Background: 00:10–04:12
• Heineken Kidnapping & Aftermath: 04:12–11:15
• Life as Celebrity Criminals, Astrid’s Legal Career: 11:15–13:57
• Conflict & Betrayal within the Family: 13:57–18:54
• Willem’s Public Persona, Intimidation, and Astrid Becomes Informant: 18:54–23:15
• Life in Hiding, Psychological Toll, and Familial Reflections: 23:15–28:38
• Conclusion – Judicial Resolution and Ongoing Trauma: 28:38–29:17

Tone & Language

The episode alternates between tense, confessional interviews and analytical commentary, capturing the immense psychological strain, moral conflict, and emotional depth faced by Astrid Holleeder and her family. Patrick Radden Keefe’s narration provides clarity and context, while Astrid’s candid, sometimes haunting reflections humanize the stakes of living in a crime family.

Summary:
This compelling episode goes far beyond true crime spectacle, offering an intimate portrait of loyalty, fear, and the cost of choosing justice over blood. Astrid Holleeder’s transformation from complicit bystander to courageous informant comes at a steep personal price, leaving an indelible mark on her life and underscoring the enduring complexity of family ties.