Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: Brazil, Bruce Lee, and Black Lives in the Music of Kamasi Washington, and the Uncertain Future of the Democratic Party
Date: July 13, 2018
Host: David Remnick
Produced by: WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

Overview

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour is a dynamic blend of politics, music, and personal reflection. The show opens with a discussion of the Democratic Party’s mid-2018 primary battles and evolving identity, led by Dorothy Wickenden and journalist Ben Wallace-Wells. The centerpiece is an in-depth interview with acclaimed jazz saxophonist and bandleader Kamasi Washington about the inspirations and intentions behind his expansive new album, Heaven and Earth. The hour closes with author Carmen Maria Machado sharing sensory-rich memories from her hometown farmer’s market.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Future of the Democratic Party

Guests: Dorothy Wickenden (New Yorker Executive Editor), Ben Wallace-Wells (Staff Writer)
Timestamps: 00:58 – 08:55

• Ocasio Cortez’s Surprise Victory:

  • Ben attributes Alexandria Ocasio Cortez’s upset over Joseph Crowley to her unique appeal, demographic resonance, and Crowley’s embodiment of traditional machine politics.
    • "There's a kind of romance around her. ... Ocasio Cortez came to sort of embody that." (01:14 – 01:34, Ben Wallace-Wells)
  • The district’s changing demographics and hunger for future-facing leadership played key roles.

• Democratic Establishment and Progressive Movements:

  • The party regularly absorbs and co-opts progressive grassroots energy (Occupy, Black Lives Matter, Parkland).
  • Establishment figures have moved left, supporting policies like “Medicare for All,” a $15 minimum wage, and even, tentatively, a federal jobs guarantee.
    • "They've even gone so far as to support in tentative form a federal jobs guarantee, which...until very recently was...pretty far out on the fringe." (02:48 – 03:21, Ben Wallace-Wells)

• Progressive Insurgents’ Impact:

  • Cynthia Nixon’s challenge to Andrew Cuomo prompted real policy shifts, particularly on minimum wage and union priorities, despite remaining far behind in polls.
    • “There has been some substantive movement.” (03:59 – 04:07, Ben Wallace-Wells)
  • A generational and gender infusion is reshaping the party, with significant growth in young, female, activist candidates and campaign messaging.

• Heightened Gender, Generational, and Policy Divides:

  • Ads highlighting breastfeeding; candidates sharing stories of personal abuse; growing focus on reproductive rights due to the Trump presidency and Brett Kavanaugh’s Supreme Court nomination.
    • "Early in the cycle, there was a spate of campaign commercials with, with women breastfeeding on camera to demonstrate their enthusiasm for family friendly policies." (04:44 – 05:08, Ben Wallace-Wells)
  • Tensions between incoming progressive leaders and the old guard like Nancy Pelosi are seen as harbingers of big change.

• The Unsettled Midwestern Battleground:

  • Wisconsin is emblematic: despite a leftward policy shift, no clear faction has seized party control.
    • "The party has definitely moved left on policy. It's not so clear it has sort of toppled the powers that be." (07:06 – 08:02, Ben Wallace-Wells)

• What Motivates the Democratic Base:

  • Voters want a genuine movement against conservative elites and remain frustrated at the lack of real power shifts.
    • "The world changes as people decide that it changed..." (08:15 – 08:34, Ben Wallace-Wells)

2. Kamasi Washington: On Music, Politics, and Process

Guest: Kamasi Washington
Host: David Remnick
Timestamps: 11:03 – 23:33

• Crafting Heaven and Earth:

  • Songs begin with musical seeds—rhythms, motifs, or raw emotion—with stories and themes arising later.
    • “Each song starts off as a musical idea where I'll have an idea, but… I don't really know what it's supposed to be.” (11:05 – 11:17, Kamasi Washington)
  • For “Vi Lua Vi Sol,” the inspiration was a rhythm heard in Brazil, transformed through musical evolution.

• Personal and Artistic Breakthroughs:

  • Washington realized he could center his own music, not just support others—a transformative confidence shift.
    • “I gave myself the confidence to know that I could make my career about my own music…"(13:12 – 13:24, Kamasi Washington)

• Politics, Justice, and the Bruce Lee Connection:

  • Lead track “Fists of Fury” is an instrumental and vocal cover from a Bruce Lee film soundtrack, with radical lyrical updates:
    • “We will no longer ask for justice. Instead we will take our retribution.” (15:11 – 15:15, David Remnick recap, lyrics)
  • Washington invokes both Bruce Lee’s defiance and Malcolm X’s self-determination, reflecting on how justice must often be seized, not requested.
    • "The justice that we've all been asking for, those who we're asking for it from don't necessarily want us to have it." (15:27 – 16:04, Kamasi Washington)

• Music’s Role in Social Change:

  • Music connects people, shares ideas, and fosters belief—but change comes from collective action.
    • "The major effect that music has... is it connects people, and that's kind of the extent of what music can do." (16:24 – 16:34, Kamasi Washington)

• Spectacle and Jazz Performance:

  • Washington incorporates elements of showmanship and inclusivity, breaking from aloof traditions (e.g., Miles Davis turning his back to the audience as rebellion).
    • “I try to just be myself on stage... I'm really trying to connect with the musicians and everyone that's there.” (17:43 – 18:12, Kamasi Washington)

• Musical Upbringing and First Saxophone:

  • His father, a seasoned jazz musician, nudged Kamasi through clarinet before allowing saxophone—but eventually relented after hearing Kamasi sing a Charlie Parker solo from memory.
    • “I nailed it. I nailed it. And he was surprised. I sang not just the melody, I sang the solo for him too.” (20:37 – 20:49, Kamasi Washington)

• Crossover to Hip-Hop:

  • Touring with Snoop Dogg as a young musician opened Kamasi’s understanding of “groove,” “placement,” and cross-genre collaboration.
    • “Placement means where and how you play something… where you put the notes is where the groove is.” (21:54 – 22:44, Kamasi Washington)
  • This sense of groove transformed his own performances and invites audiences to “dance,” a rare feat in modern jazz shows.

• Memorable Moment:

  • David Remnick attempts to get Kamasi to sing Charlie Parker on air:
    • Kamasi: "You ain't gonna get me singing on the radio!" (20:21)
    • Remnick: "Yeah, that's what the radio's for." (20:22)

3. Sensory Storytelling with Carmen Maria Machado

Location: Allentown Farmers Market
Timestamps: 24:49 – 28:42

• Personal Roots:

  • Machado leads listeners through the Allentown Farmers Market, evoking her Austrian heritage and childhood memories.
  • She reflects on how her meticulously aesthetic approach to writing is rooted in early market experiences:
    • "I've always sort of taken pleasure in, like, the specific aesthetic experiences of places like this. ... The way that I perceive the world is this very, like, these heightened sort of aesthetic beats or pulses." (26:47 – 27:17, Machado)

• Sensory Epiphanies:

  • She draws a connection between sensory stimulation in the market and the emotional resonance she aims for in her fiction.
  • Her ideal heaven?
    • “A giant farmer's market where you have infinite money and you're always a little hungry, but not too hungry. And there's lots of pickle stands.” (28:20 – 28:38, Machado)

Notable Quotes

• Ben Wallace-Wells:

  • “There's a kind of romance around her. ... Ocasio Cortez came to sort of embody that.” [01:14]
  • “They've even gone so far as to support in tentative form a federal jobs guarantee, which...until very recently was...pretty far out on the fringe.” [02:48]

• Kamasi Washington:

  • “Each song starts off as a musical idea where I'll have an idea, but… I don't really know what it's supposed to be.” [11:17]
  • “I gave myself the confidence to know that I could make my career about my own music instead of just about me helping other people make their music.” [13:12]
  • “The justice that we've all been asking for, those who we're asking for it from don't necessarily want us to have it.” [15:27]
  • “The major effect that music has... is it connects people, and that's kind of the extent of what music can do.” [16:24]

• Carmen Maria Machado:

  • “I've always sort of taken pleasure in, like, the specific aesthetic experiences of places like this.” [26:47]
  • “If I did believe in heaven, I bet it'd be like a giant farmer's market where you have infinite money... and there's lots of pickle stands.” [28:20]

Segment Timestamps

• Democratic Party/Races: 00:58 – 08:55
• Kamasi Washington Interview: 11:03 – 23:33
• Carmen Maria Machado at Allentown Farmer’s Market: 24:49 – 28:42

Tone

• The political segment is analytical yet conversational, highlighting party intrigue, demographic change, and the lived reality behind policy debates.
• Kamasi Washington’s interview is introspective and poetic, offering windows into both creative process and artistic philosophy—“epic” yet personal.
• Machado’s closing segment is warm and sensorial, full of memory and gentle humor.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode demonstrates how politics, art, and personal history intertwine. Whether you’re following the new tides in American political life or want to understand how modern jazz continues to bridge activism, performance, and history, these conversations offer both insight and inspiration. The final segment by Carmen Maria Machado beautifully reminds us how our public and private spaces shape our creative selves.