Cory Booker: “America Needs Moral Leadership, and Not Political Leadership”

Summary

Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour – Cory Booker: “America Needs Moral Leadership, and Not Political Leadership”

Release Date: April 25, 2025
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Senator Cory Booker (Democrat, New Jersey)

In this compelling episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour, Senator Cory Booker delivers a passionate discourse on the urgent need for moral leadership in America amidst the tumultuous first 100 days of President Donald Trump’s second term. Hosted by David Remnick, the conversation delves into Booker’s extensive protest on the Senate floor, the administration’s impact on various American institutions, and the broader implications for democracy and societal norms.

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1. Contextualizing Trump's 100 Days

David Remnick sets the stage by highlighting the significant actions taken during Trump's initial 100 days, emphasizing unprecedented attacks on legal immigrants, civic institutions, universities, and the rule of law. The economic repercussions of Trump's tariff policies are underscored as factors contributing to widespread public anguish and a search for strong opposition leadership.

Quote:
Cory Booker: “April 30th marks 100 days of Donald Trump's second term, and in that short time, the administration has carried out an unprecedented series of attacks against legal immigrants, against civic institutions and universities, against the rule of law itself.”
[00:38]

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2. Cory Booker's 25-Hour Senate Protest

Booker recounts his landmark 25-hour speech on the Senate floor, a strategic move designed to draw national attention to the administration's policies. This extended "political theater" aimed to serve as a rallying cry for decency and the preservation of constitutional principles.

Quote:
Cory Booker: “Booker spoke for more than a day. He spoke for 25 hours, finishing in the evening of April 1st. It was a Jimmy Stewart moment, an extended rallying cry for decency and the rule of law.”
[01:34]

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3. Assault on Institutions and Scientific Progress

Delving deeper, Booker critiques Trump’s aggressive stance towards universities and scientific research. He warns that undermining these institutions not only hampers current advancements but also jeopardizes America's future standing in global innovation.

Quote:
Cory Booker: “Trump has taken a page out of China's book. They have taken a page out of our book... in less than 100 days... he declared a cultural revolution of his own, attacking universities, attacking folks that are on the frontiers of science and research.”
[04:38]

Booker draws parallels to China’s historical attacks on intellectual institutions, suggesting that the long-term consequences for America's scientific and cultural leadership are dire and potentially irreversible.

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4. Congressional Inaction and Republican Hesitancy

Booker expresses frustration with the lack of robust opposition from congressional Republicans, citing statements from figures like Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, who remain hesitant to confront Trump decisively.

Quote:
Cory Booker: “In less than 100 days, as I have been told... that a lot of the things that he's doing is irreversible, or at least will take a generation to try to undo.”
[04:41]

He laments the absence of Republican leaders willing to offer strong rebukes, leaving the Democratic Party cautious and the opposition fragmented.

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5. Public Dissatisfaction and Constituent Pressure

Facing increasing pressure from constituents dissatisfied with the Democratic Party's cautious approach, Booker describes the emotional toll and the surge in demands for more decisive action. This public unrest propelled him to adopt unconventional strategies to capture national attention.

Quote:
Cory Booker: “We are hearing letters that literally would render my staff into tears... We've got to find a way to make those stories break through.”
[13:20]

He references historical moments of activism, drawing inspiration from figures like John Lewis and Martin Luther King Jr., to highlight the necessity of resilient and empathetic leadership.

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6. Leadership Dynamics and Chuck Schumer's Role

The discussion shifts to the dynamics within the Democratic Party, particularly Booker’s relationship with Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. While acknowledging Schumer's strategic successes in bipartisan legislation, Booker emphasizes the need for a new generation of leadership to address current challenges.

Quote:
Cory Booker: “Chuck pulled the trifecta off. He won in Wisconsin, he won in Michigan. He won in Arizona. Seats that by all intents and purposes, we should have lost.”
[21:15]

Booker posits that while Schumer remains effective, the burgeoning leadership of younger generations is crucial for envisioning a renewed American dream.

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7. Immigration Policies and Human Rights Concerns

Addressing specific immigration issues, Booker discusses the plight of individuals like Gilmore Abrego Garcia and Afghan Christians losing their protective status. He criticizes Trump’s rhetoric and policies that endanger vulnerable populations, advocating for a more humane and just approach.

Quote:
Cory Booker: “Donald Trump is trying to intimidate people, trying to threaten people... you're going to choose to stand up for those vulnerable people who are right now in the crosshairs.”
[08:50]

Booker underscores the moral imperative to protect marginalized groups from oppressive immigration measures.

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8. Exploitation of Antisemitism for Political Gain

Booker addresses the disturbing trend of antisemitism being leveraged politically by the Trump administration, equating it to historical manipulations during the Red Scare. He warns against the normalization of hate and its use as a tool for authoritarian objectives.

Quote:
Cory Booker: “Political opportunists will exploit fear, hate and division for their larger authoritarian aims. And that's exactly what Donald Trump is doing.”
[27:21]

This exploitation, Booker contends, poses a significant threat to societal cohesion and democratic integrity.

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9. Escalation of Political Violence and Security Threats

Highlighting the rise in political violence and threats, Booker shares alarming incidents targeting federal judges and public officials. He stresses the urgent need to address the climate of fear and intimidation that undermines the rule of law and personal security.

Quote:
Cory Booker: “When Joni Ernst dared to question the qualifications of Pete Hegseth... we've just seeing it go up more and more. And this is something that has to stop in our country.”
[28:23]

The senator calls for concerted efforts to stem the tide of political violence and uphold democratic norms.

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10. A Call for Moral Leadership and Hope

Concluding the conversation, Booker makes a heartfelt plea for moral leadership over mere political maneuvering. He emphasizes hope and the resilience of American democratic values, urging a collective commitment to rebuild and renew the nation's foundational principles.

Quote:
Cory Booker: “This is the time that America needs moral leadership and not political leadership. And that's what I'm standing up and saying... the best way to answer despair is to not let it have the last word. That's what hope is.”
[25:04]

Booker envisions a future where America rises above current adversities, rekindling the dream of a just and equitable society.

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Conclusion

Senator Cory Booker’s impassioned dialogue on The New Yorker Radio Hour serves as both a critique of current political dynamics and a call to action for citizens and leaders alike. Emphasizing the necessity for ethical governance, unity, and proactive defense of democratic institutions, Booker advocates for a transformative approach to leadership that prioritizes moral imperatives over partisan interests.

Transcript

[Madeline Barron]

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[Cory Booker]

Listener Supported WNYC Studios.

[David Remnick]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker.

[Cory Booker]

Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. April 30th marks 100 days of Donald Trump's second term, and in that short time, the administration has carried out an unprecedented series of attacks against legal immigrants, against civic institutions and universities, against the rule of law itself. The president's tariff policy and all its chaos has absolutely tanked the global economy. Many Americans who are anguished about the administration are looking for someone to lead the opposition because the Democratic Party has, with some exceptions, been very cautious. And congressional Republicans, in the words of Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, are all afraid to stand up to Trump. So in the face of this anguish, on March 31st, Cory Booker of New Jersey launched an epic protest on the floor of the Senate.

Maybe you're an immigrant that's never broken the law. Maybe you're a citizen. Even if you think the administration's immigration agenda doesn't apply to you, please know that the reckless behavior we're seeing erodes all of our rights. And the American mother and the American child right now, whose husband was unjustly and illegally deported and is right now in an El Salvadorian prison.

Booker spoke for more than a day. He spoke for 25 hours, finishing in the evening of April 1st. It was a Jimmy Stewart moment, an extended rallying cry for decency and the rule of law.

Would the senator yield for a question? CHUCK Schumer it's the only time in my life I can tell you. No, I just want to tell you a question. Do you know you have just broken the record? Do you know how proud this caucus is of you? Do you know how proud America is of you?

In fact, this wasn't Cory Booker's first piece of political theater. Years ago, when he was on the City Council in Newark, New Jersey, he once went on a hunger strike to call attention to open drug sales. Booker became Newark's mayor, and he was elected a senator from New Jersey in 2013, and he ran for president in the 2020 election. We spoke last week. We are coming up on Trump's 100th day in office and I was just reading the slew of pieces that were written eight years ago about the Muslim ban, Mike Flynn's appointment and rapid dismissal, the crazy midnight tweeting, the flirtations with Moscow and Pyongyang, the whole atmosphere of general alarm. Why is now different?

There is a deeper, more grave attack going on on our fundamental constitutional principles that I believe we all share. A defiance amongst the Trump administration that seems resolute to tear down, really, a century of traditions, or at least post World War II traditions in World order. And he is effectively, thus far doing it without Republican congressional leaders doing, doing anything, not just to stop him, but even to offer up a strong rebuke or critique. And so I think that the danger signs this time are far greater. And in less than 100 days, as I have been told, from people doing scientific research, of people doing international work to stop the spread of infectious diseases, from people who are talking about agency investigations into horrific crimes, that a lot of the things that he's doing is irreversible, or at least will take a generation to try to undo. And so the consequences every day that this administration continues in this manner are grave and great.

What has been accomplished in 100 days that you think is particularly grave and particularly irreversible?

So I'll start with one of them that I mentioned. I'm having a lot of people who are doing a lot of research who point example after example of how Trump's actions have stopped it, whether it's actually taking scientists themselves through immigration action and bouncing them out of our country or putting them in detention or just cutting the funding, as someone was telling me, a university who's cut their postdoc program, who's had to stop the number of people they're letting in that are doing fundamentally critical research, that you can't just turn those things on and off at a time that our competitors like China, are doubling down and investing in their research and their science, understanding that the future will be shaped fundamentally by those who are discovering it, are inventing it, that this is not a loss that we can just bounce back from. Trump has taken a page out of China's book. They have taken a page out of our book. And the best way to point that is that China attacked their universities and their cultural revolution in a stunning way. They attacked these elite institutions that were doing science research as well as culture, and then they realized in our generation how much that cost them a century of growth, a century of expanded potential and possibility. And now they're seeing things like breakthroughs in AI robotics, EVs, they want to define the future. They want to lead in the same way that we did in the 1980s, 90s when I was coming out of college. And what has Trump done in a hundred days is he's declared a cultural revolution of his own, attacking universities, attacking folks that are on the frontiers of science and research, putting them on their defensive, cutting them billions of dollars, making them in a situation where they are stopping research or stopping an inflow of the world's best researchers.

You had the first term as evidence. You had a second campaign against Joe Biden that he lost as evidence, and then a third campaign in Project 2025 as evidence of intent. What, if anything, about the first hundred days of this administration has surprised you?

I cannot say. In the world of Trump, he's losing his ability to surprise me. When people ask me about his talking about a third term or deporting American citizens to a gulag in El Salvador, I mean, these outrageous things he said, I've come to expect them and believe him when he says these things. So I don't know if there's surprise. There's been a lot of profound disappointment. I know my Republican colleagues in the Senate and some in the House, I know their core values. I listen to them as everything from the signal gate and the problems with Hegseth all the way to just cutting bipartisan approved investments in things like science, in some of the bipartisan bills that we pass that deal with gun violence, bipartisan investments in health innovations. I know privately from conversations how much they object to these things. And I guess right now, where my heartbreak lies is that so far you've seen scant few people willing to step up and risk because there is a reality of people who did stand up, did speak out, who are no longer in Congress.

Well, bring me into the cloakroom. You're having a conversation with a Republican colleague and you're discussing the situation in these terms. What is the ensuing dialogue like?

One of the reasons why politicians don't act is because the demand from the people is not enough yet. And so as much as we wanna point a finger at at people who are elected to positions which is justified, I also want to ask a lot of other powerful people in this country who are remaining silent. We've seen what many corporate leaders are doing right now, which is instead of speaking up and speaking truth, they're kowtowing for their own private deals in a tariff regime. Do you go and say, hey, please exclude electronics, or do you go and say, this is fundamentally wrong. You are hurting the economy. And I may face some backlash for this. But when they look back at this moment in history, I'm going to be one of those leaders in our country, whatever the sector is, from the faith community to the business community to the nonprofit community, the foundation community, when are more Americans going to speak up? And we've seen this before in too many countries where there's been democratic backsliding and then worse cases from history of my grandparents generation is that when good people are silent, that's when bad things and bad people flourish. And Donald Trump is trying to intimidate people, trying to threaten people. And too many people are allowing him to continue because they're thinking of what is in their own personal financial well being and not what is in the well being of our democracy. And it frustrates me. And now at a moment where you have to choose between the kind of gains that you've had, the financial comfort and security, or are you going to choose the well being of your economy, are you going to choose to stand up for those vulnerable people who are right now in the crosshairs? The sick who are going to be losing Medicaid, the hungry that are going to be losing food stamps, the disabled who are going to be losing the support they get from programs like Medicaid. And at the time when this country's very constitutional principles are being eroded, where Supreme Court decisions, 9, 0 Supreme Court decisions are being violated, where a president is not asking what your country can do for you, what you can do for your country, is asking very pointedly ask what you can do for me. What have you done for Donald Trump.

Is that he's succeeded in doing these things so quickly and in such profusion that Congress and the public can't keep up with it.

Look, I've served in this institution now for 12 plus years. The fact that we're not holding oversight hearings, not even questioning what Elon Musk is doing when he was under investigation by multiple government agencies and has eviscerated those investigations. He is scraping Americans data, Social Security data, with no accountability, no questioning. Not one hearing where there's a violation of all of our ideals of what should be national security protocols. By using signal, we're just finding out about another set of violations that this might be a pattern in practice. And again, not one oversight hearing. Congress has laid down and violated what our founders wanted to do, which was to check the power of the executive. And now we have an executive that's operating with impunity in a way that dictators and kings that are founders wanted to prevent. This is a crisis in our country, and it will continue. As Frederick Douglass says, the limits of tyranny are prescribed by the endurance of those who are oppressed. How much will we endure until we say enough is enough?

Do you see signs of that?

Yes.

Where?

Harvard University, of course. God bless America. The richest university on the planet could not find the moral conviction to stand up and do what's right. A number of law firms who do have M and A practices that might be decimated have stepped up and are doing the right thing and saying this is wrong. Now, it's still limited, but it's a start.

My understanding is that you are hearing silence in your own party leadership. And the occasion for your 25 hour speech on the floor of the Senate was because you were hearing from a lot of your constituents, what were they saying and in what volume?

So I was encountering a lot of anger towards me because when I would explain to people that we don't have the votes as Democrats, we don't have the ability to stop this spending bill or stop this confirmation, that was wholly unsatisfying to people who were afraid, who were themselves angry, who couldn't imagine these things happening in their country and expected more from me and more from the Democratic Party. And we decided after I had a disagreement with my leader, Chuck Schumer, over the continuing resolution and what tactic we should take, what larger strategy we should pursue, I decided that I had to shift my own way of working. Now, when I felt like my constituents were demanding from me that I take risks, that I think outside of the box, and we are hearing letters that literally would render my staff into tears, we had people coming to our office, not even from our state, because they saw this as an outpost, to tell us that they were gonna lose their farm because Donald Trump had cut contracts, stories that just were wrenching the guts of my staff. And they said that we've got to find a way to make those stories break through. And so that was part of our strategy, was how do you get the nation to listen a little bit more in this terribly competitive attention economy that we have, what could break through? And obviously, in the back of my mind, I knew that the same year that John Lewis wrote a letter to Martin Luther King and King then sent him a bus ticket that began that 1957. That year was the same year that Strom Thurmond gave the longest speech in Senate history trying to stop what Martin Luther King and John Lewis were doing in that letter exchange. And so, as a black man who was not envisioned by Strom Thurmond ever serving in that body. In fact, I'm the fourth black person ever popularly elected to that body after Barack Obama, who was the third. We knew that there was, if I could last 24 hours and 18 minutes, that we could potentially command some attention from the public, never imagining that we would get on TikTok alone, over 300 million people liking the livestream. We never thought that it would be as successful as it was. And so that's the key here, which is to deal with the poverty of empathy we have in our nation right now, the poverty of realizing that this is happening to my neighbor, that that fundamentally implicates me and endangers me.

I'm speaking with Cory Booker, who's been a senator from New Jersey since 2013. And we'll continue in a moment. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour.

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[Madeline Barron]

In school Boys too often end up.

[Cory Booker]

Being treated like malfunctioning girls.

[Meghna Chakrabarti]

The gap emerges before boys hit third grade. So more than ever, experts are saying with urgency that something must be done.

[Cory Booker]

The quote actually comes from Frederick Douglass.

[Jason Adam Katzenstein]

It's easier to build strong boys than rebuild broken men. Today's boys are tomorrow's men.

[Meghna Chakrabarti]

I'm Meghna chakrabarti, host of OnPointe from WBUR. Our new series is Falling the Miseducation of America's Boys. Follow Enpointe wherever you get your podcast.

[Cory Booker]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick, and I've been speaking with Senator Cory Booker of my home state of New Jersey. Booker became active in local politics in the city of Newark, which had been long plagued by political corruption, poverty and neglect. He was elected to the Senate in 2013, and I spoke with Booker on this program in 2019 when he ran in the Democratic presidential primary. We'll continue our conversation. You mentioned Senator Schumer earlier. You've said that you would not want the job of minority leader in the Senate. Why not?

Well, let me first say that I may have disagreed with Senator Schumer vehemently.

In this instance in the budget negotiation.

But anybody who looks at the Senate in the last three or four years would have to say this guy, this tactician behind the scenes has racked up one hell of a record. I mean, the bipartisan bills that I watched in a front row seat often being asked for assistance to get through bipartisan gun bill, bipartisan CHIPS act, bipartisan infrastructure bill. This is Chuck Schumer's leadership. And then he pulled something off in the last election that rarely has happened, I think only once before in my time in the Senate where a senator won reelection in a state where the president of the opposite party won. Well, Chuck pulled the trifecta off. He won in Wisconsin, he won in Michigan. He won in Arizona. Seats that by all intents and purposes, we should have lost. And we obviously had great candidates, but Chuck was doing it. So, again.

So you don't think Chuck Schumer's time has come?

No.

You think that's the case indefinitely for a while?

No, I wouldn't say indefinitely. Look, the last baby boomers are leaving power in American politics. This is the last baby boomer president. Chuck is the last baby boomer leader of the Senate. A new generation is dawning. And my critique thus far of my generation and millennials is that we have failed to step up and say, like generations before us, that it's time to dream America anew.

I hear you may go to El Salvador yourself to look into the case of Gilmore Abrejo Garcia. Is that going to happen?

I'm going to evaluate it. We have an inquiry out to the committee for permission to go on a formal codel. But I'm watching the whole sort of immigration field and finding out where my presence, where me physically visiting and going is most important, and whether it's CECOT or some of the detention facilities here in our state or with some of the people. I was in touch with some Afghans that are here that just got word, in fact, that they no longer have temporary protective status and they're to leave within the week. These are Afghan Christians who are being told to go back to a country run by the Taliban. So wherever I can help bring attention, I think that I would say it was nothing short of heroic what my friend Chris Van Hollen did. I know a bunch of House members are in El Salvador. Now. The question is, how do we highlight and bring attention to the horrible immigration policies of Donald Trump?

There was a lot of attention paid to Nayib Bukele, the El Salvadoran president, his trip to the Oval Office, and the way he paraded as a kind of fellow autocrat with the president. And when Bukele visited the White House earlier this month, Trump said this. Let's listen.

We also have homegrown criminals that push people into subways, that hit elderly ladies on the back of the head with a baseball bat when they're not looking, that are absolute monsters. I'd like to include them in the group of people to get them out of the country.

I don't think he was kidding around. There. You've got the president believes he can send American citizens, forget lawful immigrants to foreign prisons. Are Democrats working on anything preemptively to protect American citizens?

I know you ask questions, as are the Democrats. I'm trying to broaden this to say, are Americans. The responsibility falls on all of us.

That's totally fair. But you've got a job. And I do, too.

But New Jersey did not send me to Washington to be a great Democratic senator. They sent me to be a great New Jersey senator and a great fighter for America. And I am trying to talk. And this is why during the 25 hours, we brought in the Cato Institute, the Heritage Foundation, Republican gubernatorial voices, all to make the point from their own words why this president is so dangerous and why these are a time of moral urgency. And right now, one of my biggest areas of focus is stopping this bill that will gut Medicaid and healthcare for 80, 90 million people and endanger hospitals. And we need Republicans of good conscience, like we did in 2017 with the affordable Care act, to vote with us. And so playing this as a partisan game.

Fair enough.

Cheapens the larger cause of the country. And so this is the time that America needs moral leadership and not political leadership. And that's what I'm standing up and saying. I'm accepting responsibility for my own leadership failings. And I'm telling people right now I want to appeal to the soul, the heart, the conscience of our country. And it's not just as important for leaders now to speak against Trump, but also to capture the imagination of people for how we can rise above this moment. The world is calling to us. Right now, I sit with world leader after world leader in my office and here. Please do something to stop this deterioration of the post World War II order. Ambassadors and ministers from other countries will come in my office right here and sit down and basically give a wtf. Sometimes quite literally. I remember after Trump sided with China and Russia against European allies on Ukraine, it was such a stunning blow to people that work in diplomacy on a regular basis to see America turn their back like this. People now who don't understand at a time where Europeans, the eu, England, are suffering from Chinese bad practices on stealing intellectual property, currency manipulation. Hey, why aren't we all working together to ratchet up pressure on the Chinese? Instead, he puts 10% tariffs on everybody across the board and then his 100 plus percent tariffs on China. It makes no sense to them the way America's working. How dare Donald Trump treat dictators and authoritarian leaders like pals and friends and allies and treat allies literally calling them dictators and treat them in this way. This is despicable behavior from the highest office in the land.

Senator Booker, over the years you have been a really clear opponent, maybe understates it of antisemitism, of over and over again. But would you agree that antisemitism to some extent is being exploited in a political way by the Trump administration? How do you see that? Very complicated piece of business.

I see it very clearly. Were there things happening on campuses that were dead wrong in my book? Absolutely. But yes, Donald Trump is exploiting antisemitism in order to pursue a agenda that is far greater and far more authoritarian. We know that people preyed upon Jewish populations during the Red Scare and used hate and antisemitism in a different way then as a tool to pursue what I consider a dark chapter in American history. Political opportunists will exploit fear, hate and division for their larger authoritarian aims. And that's exactly what Donald Trump is doing.

Now, I know you got a lot of positive reaction to your 25 hour long speech. I wonder if you got the other thing, too. Lisa Murkowski has talked about threats that have come her way. Do they come your way as well?

Yeah, look, there's a great book, How Democracies Die, I think is the name of it. They talk about the different signs. One is signs I started seeing when Obama was president where the letter of the law is followed but the spirit of the Constitution isn't. When they wouldn't give Merrick Garland even a hearing that was slow unwinding of the spirit of bipartisanship or the spirit of democratic norms and traditions. And I've seen that erode even more quickly, obviously under this current president in a disastrous way. But one of the other signs they talked about was the heightening and the raising of political violence and threats of violence. We are seeing chilling things. Esther Solis, who's a federal judge in my state, a murderer went to her house and murdered her child and shot and severely wounded her husband. That was bad enough. Threats at that point on federal judges was up about 400%. But to see how they're skyrocketing even more now under Donald Trump and what I think is some of his incendiary language. And there's been incendiary language across the board on federal judges. And now you're seeing. I saw her interviewed, shaken, because people are sending pizzas to federal judges who are deciding against Donald Trump from her son's name, Daniel Anderall. They're using her murdered son's name to send pizzas to the homes of federal judges, almost to say, we know where you live. And so, yeah, I'm definitely facing a whole new order of security concerns in my own life as senators on both sides of the aisle. When Joni Ernst dared to question the qualifications of Pete Hegseth, what she endured online, the vicious things that were being said about her, the political threats and more, in my opinion, were vile. And we're just seeing it go up more and more. And this is something that has to stop in our country.

Do you think that played a role in her, in the end, supporting Hecseth?

I will make no sort of guesses as to what her internal deliberations were.

But it must be scary.

Look, even the most senators and Congress people on both sides who I've talked to know that we are living in a scary environment.

I find that the conversation that we're having sounds like a conversation that would be born of 10 years of experience rather than 100 days. 100 days, and there are 1300 days remaining or thereabouts. What do you expect to see happen?

Well, first of all, I hope it's chilling to some to understand that it takes years, years to establish democratic norms and traditions, decades, decades to strengthen democratic principles and ideals, generations to instill them within the hearts and minds of a people. But it could take days to unravel them, days to tear them down. And I have never in my life been as worried about our country, about our democracy, about our traditions as I have now. But I will say this. Shiva in the Hindu faith is the God of destruction. And I know Donald Trump would get glee from me, comparing him to any kind of God. But Shiva is also a valued God because you can't have renewal and rebirth without facing destruction. I am a prisoner of hope. I always will be. In fact, I think the best way to answer despair is to not let it have the last word. That's what hope is. And so I will always counter despairing times with telling what I think is the truth of our country's history. That has often been out of the darkest times, where we've seen the infernos of hell, where we've seen destruction, where we've seen Shiva visit itself upon our nation. But it's often been from those times, from those ashes has arisen the best of who we are. And that's really what I'm working for right now. Not just to stop the destruction coming from the White House, but to usher in the next generation of leadership in this country to help us to dream America anew and redeem the dream for so many who've given up on the very dream of America.

Senator Booker, thank you.

Thank you.

Cory Booker. As a Democrat and a senator from New Jersey, I'm David Remnick and that's our program for this week. Thanks for joining us. See you next time.

[David Remnick]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards with additional music by Louis Mitchell. This episode was produced by Max Bolton, Adam Howard, David Krasnow, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell, Jared Paul and Ursula Sommer, with guidance from Emily Bottin and assistance from Michael May, David Gable, Alex Barish, Victor Guan and Alejandra Deckett.

[Cory Booker]

And we had additional help this week from Jake Loomis.

[David Remnick]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Turina Endowment Fund.

[Madeline Barron]

My name is Madeline Barron. I'm a journalist for the New Yorker. I focus on stories where powerful people or institutions are doing something that's harming people or harming someone or something inside. And so my job is to report that so exhaustively that we can reveal what's actually going on and present it to the public. You know, for us, at in the Dark, we're paying equal attention to the reporting and the storytelling, and we felt a real kinship with the New Yorker, like the combination of the deeply reported stories that the New Yorker is known for, but also the quality of those stories, the attention to narrative. If I could give you only one reason to subscribe to the New Yorker, it would be, maybe this is not the answer you're looking for, but I just don't think that there is any other magazine in America that combines so many different types of things into a single issue. As a New Yorker, you know, like you have poetry, you have theater reviews, you have restaurant recommendations, which for some reason I read even though I don't live in New York City. And all of those things are great. But I haven't even mentioned the other half of the magazine, which is deeply reported stories that honestly are the first things that I read. I'm a big fan of gymnastics. And people will say, oh, we're so lucky to live in the era of Simone Biles, which I agree. We're also so lucky to live in the era of Lawrence Wright, Jane Mayer, Ronan Farrow, Patrick Radden, Keefe. And so to me, it's like, I can't imagine not reading the these writers.

[Jason Adam Katzenstein]

You can have all the journalism, the fiction, the film, book and TV reviews, all the cartoons just by going right now to newyorker.com dark plus, there's an incredible archive, a century's worth of award winning work just waiting for you. That's newyorker.com dark and thanks.