Derek Smalls—Harry Shearer’s Character in “Spinal Tap”—Returns with His Solo Début

Summary

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The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: Derek Smalls—Harry Shearer’s Character in “Spinal Tap”—Returns with His Solo Début
Date: November 6, 2018
Host: David Remnick
Featured Interviewer: Andy Borowitz
Special Guest: Derek Smalls (portrayed by Harry Shearer)

Overview

This episode pays comical tribute to Derek Smalls, the larger-than-life (fictional) bassist from the cult classic "This Is Spinal Tap." With Andy Borowitz as interviewer, Derek—played in-character by Harry Shearer—reflects on his career, the band's exclusion from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and his new solo album, "Smalls Change: Meditations Upon Aging." The episode blends satire, rock nostalgia, and mock sincerity, delivering a tongue-in-cheek meditation on legacy, aging rockers, and the universal urge never to repeat oneself. In the latter half, David Remnick shifts to a genuine and moving segment about new parenthood with New Yorker editor Joshua Rothman.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Legacy and Mystery of Spinal Tap

• Opening riff: The interviewer mythologizes Spinal Tap:

  “On the periodic chart of metal, one band is heavier than the rest. Its atomic weight is 11. Its name is Spinal Tap." (00:26)

• Derek’s signature lyric is recalled:

  “The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushing. That's what I said.” —Derek Smalls (00:59)

Whatever Happened to Derek Smalls?

• Physical condition update:
  Derek describes losing his famous facial hair after a mishap with a wind-blown cat in Scunthorpe, England:

  “I see this little cat...one of these gusts whips up and whips the cat right into my face...claws come out. And so I went to the NHS and they said, 'We'll be shaving you now, mate.’” (01:41)

• Interviewer jokes about his appearance and whether it’s the cat that’s regrowing or Derek’s beard. (02:32)

Spinal Tap’s Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Snub

• Discovery:
  The interviewer (Andy Borowitz) is perplexed that Spinal Tap is not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

  “How could that be? I mean, are you dumbfounded? Flabbergasted? Is it politics? Is the fix out? What is the deal?” (03:21)

• Derek’s take:

  “I was dumbfounded for a long time. And then I did some thinking and research and I became Smart Founded.” (03:32)
  "Do you know what they sell in the gift shop at the Rock and Roll hall of Fame? A T shirt that says hello, Cleveland." (03:43)

• On being hurt by the omission:

  “Every time I see that they're selling a T shirt that says Adam [Hello] Cleveland in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. It hurts, mate.” (04:55)

• Who should be ousted from the Hall for Spinal Tap?

  “Peter Frampton.” (14:55)

Derek’s Solo Album: “Smalls Change: Meditations Upon Aging”

• Inspiration for going solo:
  After large shows at Glastonbury and Wembley, Derek waited for the “call” that never came:

  “I go home and…wait for the call and telephone doesn't ring.” (06:16)

• Getting funding:
  The “British Fund for Aging Rockers” offers grants:

  “My idea is that you give me money and I make a record. And they said, no, what's your idea? Idea. So then I had to do some thinking…they say, write about what you know. What do I know? I know I'm getting older. I'll write about that.” (06:54)

• On the album’s theme:

  “Meditations Upon Aging.” (07:28)

• Philosophy on aging vs. dying:

  “I think you have to get old before you die. Mm. I think that's the way nature works.” (07:44)
  “Rather be alive than in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame.” (14:34)

Not Repeating Himself—Musically or Personally

• Desire to avoid repetition:

  “The worst thing you can do is repeat yourself.” (08:24)
  Regarding solo material:
  “Let’s get a symphony orchestra involved. Let's get other kinds of different musical colors to paint with.” (08:27)

• About the song “Memo to Willie”:
  Skewers Viagra ads and Britishness:

  “Willie, I don't know if you're familiar with British slang, but I am, actually. ... It's the distinguished member from down below.” (09:52)

• On American erectile dysfunction ads:

  “I would come to this country and I would watch the telly and I'd see these adverts...When the time is right, will he be ready? And I'm thinking, is this an epidemic that I've missed? … It's not my problem. I make that clear.” (09:59)

• Audio sample from “Memo to Willie”: (11:10-11:45)

• “Big Bottom” to “Butt Call”:
  Explains inspiration for the song “Butt Call”:

  “Now, you know, we've got these little phones which are germier than anything.…Here's this thing that people, you know, ring you up and they're not even calling you and it's a butt call. Right.” (13:00)

• Layers in his music:

  "On first glance it might seem simple minded, shallow, but then when you dig deeper, it's less shallow." —Andy Borowitz
  "It's always less shallow when you dig deep." —Derek Smalls (14:01)

Reflections on Legacy and the Future

• Hall of Fame hopes:

  "I think I have to die first, you know, which is not my intent." (14:21)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Rock and Roll Hall of Fame merch:

  "Do you know what they sell in the gift shop at the Rock and Roll hall of Fame? A T shirt that says hello, Cleveland." —Derek Smalls (03:43)

• On band branding:

  "You are one third of what's been called the loudest band in rock and roll." —Andy Borowitz
  "I think we were the ones who called us that." —Derek Smalls (05:36)

• Philosophy on life:

  "I'd rather be alive than in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame." —Derek Smalls (14:34)

• On not repeating oneself:

  “I didn't want to repeat myself. The worst thing you can do is repeat yourself.” —Derek Smalls (08:24)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:26 – Rock-legend style intro for Spinal Tap and Derek Smalls
• 01:41 – Derek Smalls' cat-beard mishap in Scunthorpe
• 03:20 – Spinal Tap's absence from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
• 06:20 – Glastonbury gig and inspiration for solo career
• 07:44 – Thoughts on aging vs. dying
• 08:27 – Derek’s plans for new musical direction
• 11:10-11:45 – Clip of “Memo to Willie”
• 13:00 – Origin of “Butt Call” and commentary on technology
• 14:21 – Chances of solo induction in Rock Hall
• 14:55 – Who Derek would bump for a place in the Hall: Peter Frampton

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Tone and Language

The segment is sharply satirical, blending Spinal Tap-style deadpan with affectionate rock mockery and self-aware aging jokes. Derek, as always, is both the earnest artist and oblivious legend, with Andy Borowitz feeding him straight lines and dry banter. The tone swings from grandiose to delightfully mundane, poking gentle fun at the seriousness of rock stardom and the trivialities of aging.

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Brief Addendum: Parenthood Recommendations

(16:00-end)

Interview with Joshua Rothman (The New Yorker Editor)

• Rothman shares the news of his 11-pound newborn, discusses the anxieties and realities of early parenthood, and offers advice:
  • Best parenting book:
    Expecting Better by economist Emily Oster, which advocates using statistics and common sense instead of fear.
  • On wine in pregnancy:

    “Turns out you can have like one to two glasses of wine and it's fine.” —Joshua Rothman (18:35)

  • Dad gear obsession:
    Rothman describes his tactical “dad flashlight” and the dad blog gear subculture.
  • Reflection on fatherhood:
    Rothman reads from Karl Ove Knausgaard’s “Autumn”:

    "Holding an infant close to one's body is one of the great joys in life, perhaps the greatest..." (22:27)

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Conclusion

This episode offers pure Spinal Tap meta-humor—Harry Shearer inhabiting Derek Smalls to riff on rock’s indignities, the perils of aging, and the stubborn will to stay original. It is filled with playful banter, satirical insights, and musical mockery, tempered in its second half by a sincere take on the joys and transformations of becoming a parent, making for an episode at once irreverent and endearing.

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Transcript

[Andy Borowitz]

From One World Trade center in Manhattan, this is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of the New Yorker and WNYC Studios.

[David Remnick]

Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. For this episode, I'm just going to turn things over to my friend and colleague Andy Borowitz, who's got something very special in store for us.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

On the periodic chart of metal, one band is heavier than the rest. Its atomic weight is 11. Its name is Spinal Tap. Led by singer David St. Hubbins and guitarist Nigel Tufnell, Spinal Tap made music history with their seminal 1984 rockumentary, this is Spinal Tap. But it was their bassist, Derek Smalls, who left an unremovable mark with his tasty licks on Tap's majestic hit, Big Bot.

[Derek Smalls]

The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushing. That's what I said.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Flash forward 34 years. Whatever happened to Derek Smalls? Is he still alive? And more importantly, can he still rock? Well, Derek Smalls answers those questions and some others that no one has asked. On his first ever solo album, Smalls change. Meditations upon Aging. Derek Smalls, welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour.

[Derek Smalls]

Oh, thank you so much.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

And you look fantastic. You look alive to me. I'm not a doctor, but you do look. You look good.

[Derek Smalls]

Well, I feel good. I had a little incident, which is why my chops, my facial hair is not where it used to be.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

But what was the incident? Tell me.

[Derek Smalls]

I was a friend of mine. It's an old friend, Eddie Dregs. He's moved to Scunthorpe, England. Late summer, early autumn. These strange gusts of wind will sometimes whip up in the countryside. I mean, Scunthorpe's not, you know, it's not London, let's put it that way. Anyway, I was walking down the street and I see this little cat, sweet little, you know, tiny little cat. And all of a sudden, one of these gusts whips up and whips the cat right into my face.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Oh, my gosh.

[Derek Smalls]

And poor thing, you know, claws come out. And so I went to the nhs and they said, we'll be shaving you now, mate. And of course, the cat didn't know what hit him, especially when I hit him.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Right. Oh, that's terrible. But you're rallying now. You're feeling.

[Derek Smalls]

It's growing back. It's growing back.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

It's growing back. Good. Derek, this is not the cat. Not the cat.

[Derek Smalls]

Of course I will.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Cat never will. I did a little bit of research before.

[Derek Smalls]

I know where you're going with this question.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Well, it's an uncomfortable question. It is, but I have to bring it up and I don't mean to.

[Derek Smalls]

Do you know what makes it doubly uncomfortable? Well, you want to tell people what the question is first? I mean, I know where you're going, but they might not.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Well, the question is, I, in preparation as a journalist, when I sit down to interview somebody, the first thing I do is I Google them and I go to their Wikipedia page to learn as much as possible.

[Derek Smalls]

You're damn good.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

It's called just shoe leather journalism. It's what I do. And I googled Spinal Tap and found that Spinal Tap somehow is not in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame keyword.

[Derek Smalls]

Somehow.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Somehow. How could that be? I mean, are you dumbfounded? Flabbergasted? Is it politics? Is the fix out? What is the deal?

[Derek Smalls]

I was dumbfounded for a long time. And then I did some thinking and research and I became Smart Founded. Do you know what they sell in the gift shop at the Rock and Roll hall of Fame? A T shirt that says hello, Cleveland.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Oh, my God.

[Andy Borowitz]

First door, you sign. Authorized personnel only.

[Derek Smalls]

Yeah, Open that door. That's the stage. You think so?

[David Remnick]

You're authorized.

[Andy Borowitz]

You're musicians, aren't you?

[Derek Smalls]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Thank you very much.

[Derek Smalls]

Rock and roll.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Rock and roll.

[Derek Smalls]

Let's get it. Let's get it. Go.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

You see this way, this way. Straight Rock and roll.

[Derek Smalls]

Rock and roll. Here we go. Hello, Cleveland. Hello, Cleveland. Something's up. There's a cover up going on and I don't know what it is.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Who do you think could be behind that?

[Derek Smalls]

I don't want to name names. These people have been named already by their parents. But somewhere in the management of that so called hall of Fame. So called hall of. So called fame. That's all I can say.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Have you at this point, Are you sort of.

[Derek Smalls]

I could say it again, but I don't like to repeat myself.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

You don't like to repeat yourself? Are you sort of. Are you and the other guys in the band sort of sawed off? We don't care. You know, this is. Are you or does it still hurt on some level?

[Derek Smalls]

Every time I see that they're selling a T shirt that says Adam Cleveland in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. It hurts, mate.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

It hurts you.

[Derek Smalls]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

You don't get a piece of that.

[Derek Smalls]

Don't get a piece of the shirt. No, a piece of the shirt wouldn't be much.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

It would be worthless, probably. I mean, you need an entire shirt.

[Derek Smalls]

You need an entire shirt.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Derek Smalls]

Now you're editorializing again a little bit.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Because I'm expressing my opinion about what's important in a shirt and the whole thing. Not everybody feels that way.

[Derek Smalls]

Both sleeves and the neck, please.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Right.

[Derek Smalls]

At the very least.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

At the very least, this is a question I think a lot of Spinal Tap fans, and I count myself as a huge one.

[Derek Smalls]

Thank you. You're what, six? Three?

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

About six. Three, six, four.

[Derek Smalls]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

You are huge on the big side.

[Derek Smalls]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

You know, you're one third of what's been called the loudest band in rock and roll.

[Derek Smalls]

I think we were the ones who called us that.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

You called yourselves that?

[Derek Smalls]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Given that you have that kind of a massive success and that sort of a legacy, what inspired you to step out and record a solo album?

[Derek Smalls]

Well, 2009, we played Glastonbury Festival in England.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

That's a big gig.

[Derek Smalls]

130,000 people. Wow. Staring at us, wondering. And then we played Wembley Arena. Sold it out in London same week. And I'm thinking, great, here we go. And I go home and, you know, wait for the call and telephone doesn't ring.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Was the phone working?

[Derek Smalls]

I ran the phone company. That's exactly what I did. You think like I do. And they said, it's not us, mate. And I realized, ah, great, here we are again. Here we are. Not again. Literally. And so I thought, this is not how it ends. For Derek.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Maybe this is how it begins.

[Derek Smalls]

Interesting. Yeah. Nice. And so I applied. There was a group in England, semi official, called I'm wearing their T shirt. British Fund for Aging Rockers.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Oh, wonderful.

[Derek Smalls]

Yeah, wonderful. And they take the money that was saved in austerity and use it to give grants to agencies, hence the name. And I applied and they said, what's your idea? And I said, my idea is that you give me money and I make a record. And they said, no, what's your idea? Idea. So then I had to do some thinking and I thought, well, they say, write about what you know. What do I know? I know I'm getting older. I'll write about that.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Interesting.

[Derek Smalls]

And so that's what the record is.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Meditations Upon Aging.

[Derek Smalls]

Aging, yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

You know, you make a good point. Roger Daltrey famously sang, if I die before I get old. Where do you stand on dying versus getting old? Have you given this a lot of thought? Do you come down on one side or the other?

[Derek Smalls]

I think you have to get old before you die. Mm. I think that's the way nature works.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

You wouldn't do it the other way around.

[Derek Smalls]

I would not do it the other way around. I think it's too much trouble. It's way too much. Too much. Arrangements have to be made.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

So you make this application to the British Fund for Agent Rockers and you have the money to make the album. Yes. Now, your band, Spinal Tap, behind some really iconic rock songs like Hell Hole and Sex Farm, Was that Stonehenge? Stonehenge, of course. Was that something of a burden of the past that you had to. As you were sitting down to write this album?

[Derek Smalls]

I didn't want to repeat myself.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

No, never.

[Derek Smalls]

The worst thing you can do is repeat yourself. So I didn't want to do that. That was one thing I did not want to do, is repeat myself. So I thought, let's take advantage of this by expanding the palette, the musical palette. So tap was always a rock band, a loud, guitar driven rock band. Let's get a symphony orchestra involved. Let's get other kinds of different musical colors to paint with. Mm, let's do that. Fire alarm.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

I think so.

[Derek Smalls]

Let's wait for that.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Is it a real fire?

[Derek Smalls]

Oh, this will be history in the making. We were interviewing Tarek when the building burned down.

[Andy Borowitz]

I'm gonna quickly make sure that the building's not on fire.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Okay. If. If it is on fire, are there some more different questions you want me to ask?

[Derek Smalls]

Should we talk?

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

How do we fast talk faster?

[Derek Smalls]

So I wanted to get. I thought I'll get a broader musical palette, get a symphony orchestra, get other colors to paint with. There's a song called Memo to Willie. Now, Willie, I don't know if you're familiar with British slang, but I am, actually. Okay, so you'll tell people what the willie is then, right?

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

It's an important part of the anatomy. Isn't that how you use.

[Derek Smalls]

It's the distinguished member from down below.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Exactly.

[Derek Smalls]

And I would come to this country and I would watch the telly and I'd see these adverts. Nice looking bloke, late 30s, maybe early 40s. He's got a piece of crumpet with him, and they're out in a rowboat on the lake, or they're strolling down a path in the city, or they're having a good time. It looks like they're about to get it on, right? And all of a sudden the voice, scary voice, comes on. When the time is right, will he be ready? And I'm thinking, is this an epidemic that I've missed? And it's, you know, it's for these pills, right?

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Of course.

[Derek Smalls]

And I'm thinking we don't have this in Britain.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

This doesn't happen. The problem doesn't happen or the remedy. Or the remedy doesn't.

[Derek Smalls]

They don't talk about it. It's not on the telly all every night. So I just thought it's not my problem. I make that clear.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Of course not.

[Derek Smalls]

Yeah, but here's what you need. Give him a good stone talking to.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

But let's listen to a little bit of Memo to Willy.

[Derek Smalls]

We've been together forever When I'm well, when I'm ill Not gonna go all herbal not gonna take a. Get it up, get it up, get it up.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Now you mentioned that you, you don't want to repeat yourself in your music and you want to.

[Derek Smalls]

I never want to repeat myself.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

You never want to repeat. And this, this album is full of, of new sounds, but there are also some, I would say some thematic lines that you could draw from say, Spinal Tap to Derek Smalls, solo artist. Artiste. I'm sorry.

[Derek Smalls]

That's all right.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

I was interested in sort of tracing sort of a thematic line from a song like Big Bottom, which was a big hit for you back in the Tap days, to Butt Call.

[Derek Smalls]

You're driving your car, you're walking across the square, your mobile rings and there's no one.

[Andy Borowitz]

One there.

[Derek Smalls]

My God.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Can you describe how you sort of made the journey from Big Bottom to Butt Call?

[Derek Smalls]

You know, when I was a kid, my dad was in the telephone business.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

He worked for the telephone company.

[Derek Smalls]

No, no, he had a, had his own company. Well, it wasn't a company. I mean, he was the company. But he had his own van and he would go about sanitizing telephones, proper telephone handsets that we used to have. People were concerned about germs and he made a nice living at it. And now, you know, we've got these little phones which are germier than anything. I mean, if my dad were alive, he'd have invented a phone sanitizing app, of course, and he'd be, you know.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

On the phone itself, fabulously wealthy.

[Derek Smalls]

But, you know, here's this thing that people, you know, ring you up and they're not even calling you and it's a butt call. Right. So it was not about let's do another song about butts. No, it's. It was going from a whole other place.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

That's how with a lot of your music, on first glance it might seem simple minded, shallow, but then when you, when you dig deeper, it's less shallow.

[Derek Smalls]

It's always less shallow when you Dig deep.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

It's interesting. It's interesting. This is, you know, this is maybe pie in the sky, just fantasy or dreaming big, but do you think there's a chance that you might be inducted as a solo artiste in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame now that you've broken out with your own album?

[Derek Smalls]

I don't know. You know, to tell you the honest truth. Andy, is it Andy? Yeah. I think I have to die first, you know, which is not my intent.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

No, no, you've been very clear about that.

[Derek Smalls]

Yeah. Rather be alive than in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Right. Well, that's fair. And it's your choice.

[Derek Smalls]

It's a choice.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

It's your choice. Let me ask, before we move on to something else. Cause I realize I've touched on a very painful topic and you're handling it very manfully.

[Derek Smalls]

Thank you.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

If you could remove anybody from the Rock and Roll hall of Fame and take their place, who would that be?

[Derek Smalls]

Peter Frampton.

[Interviewer (possibly Andy Borowitz)]

Derek Smalls. Thank you so much.

[Derek Smalls]

Thank you, Andy.

[David Remnick]

Derek Smalls of Spinal Tap, as played by the great actor and comedian Har Shearer. Derek Smalls is fictional, but his solo album is real. You might want to ponder that if you're philosophical. It's called Smalls Change Meditations Upon Aging. You can read andy [e-mail] this is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. When I'm doing my day job, one of my favorite things to do is walk around the halls of the New Yorker and pick the brains of my very informed colleagues and find out what they're listening to, what they're reading and what they're watching on TV or seeing @ the movies. Joshua Rothman is an editor at the New Yorker, and he writes about all kinds of things. Philosophy, science, technology. But lately, there's been just one thing on his mind. One very big thing.

[Andy Borowitz]

That's him. That's pretty recent.

[David Remnick]

That is a beautiful child.

[Andy Borowitz]

He's cute.

[David Remnick]

You've done good, Josh.

[Andy Borowitz]

He's cute. Thank you.

[David Remnick]

I'm with my colleague, Josh Rothman, who just had a baby, and it was a stunning 11 pounds, 8 ounces. Taking the breath away from everybody at the offices here. My wife and everybody I know I told about it. I think I told everybody. How's the baby?

[Andy Borowitz]

First of all, he's great.

[David Remnick]

Yeah?

[Derek Smalls]

Yeah.

[Andy Borowitz]

He's good natured, smiley.

[David Remnick]

Any tricks?

[Andy Borowitz]

Not yet, but he's starting to sleep for more than three hours at a time.

[David Remnick]

Can he dunk yet?

[Andy Borowitz]

He can't dunk. He does. He has a real wingspan. So I think there's a football versus baseball debate happening in the no football. It's going to be the Giants.

[David Remnick]

Big snay on the football. Big snare on the football. So you've got some recommendations for parents and all those who love them?

[Andy Borowitz]

I do.

[David Remnick]

Fire away.

[Andy Borowitz]

Okay. So, you know, in the months leading up to his arrival, as one does, my wife and I read, like, hundreds of parenting books. And the best book that we read was called Expecting Better. And it's by a. An economist actually named Emily Oster. She's a professor at Brown. And basically the theory is that she, using her statistical skills, does a vast analysis of all of the parenting studies that exist and tells you which ones are meaningful and which ones actually don't. Like, pass by.

[David Remnick]

This is what you read, not books about, like, what kind of blankets to use or what to feed the baby or how to get the baby to sleep. I got a statistical analysis from an.

[Andy Borowitz]

Economist at Brown, and it was awesome. And, you know, the big. The big discovery. I mean, I guess if you had to boil it down, it's that being an economist, she's super aware of, like, socioeconomic factors that confound most parenting studies.

[David Remnick]

So what did you learn?

[Andy Borowitz]

So, for example, there's a lot of studies saying, don't drink while you're pregnant. Right. But as we all know, in some countries, people do drink while they're pregnant. So it kind of makes you wonder, what's the deal? It turns out that most of these studies have some kind of socioeconomic confound, some kind of variable that messes it up. Usually it has to do with the fact that mothers who drink more are poorer than mothers who drink less. When you find the studies that actually account for all those variables, although socioeconomic variables, to which Emily Oster is especially sensitive because she's an economist, it turns out you can have like one to two glasses of wine and it's fine.

[David Remnick]

Per day.

[Andy Borowitz]

Per day. Which is what people do in other countries. So that's what we did.

[David Remnick]

How else did it help you?

[Andy Borowitz]

I think the big thing it made you do was just, like, use your head. Instead of being freaked out all the time.

[David Remnick]

Were you freaked out all the time anticipating your first job?

[Andy Borowitz]

Yeah, a little bit.

[David Remnick]

I think what freaked you out the most?

[Andy Borowitz]

I guess, like, I had visions of it being a lot scarier than it was or than it's turned out to be. Like, I thought that the whole having kids thing would be way more. Way less fun and just Way more alarming. Like, the way it was the first, like, couple days in the hospital where I didn't know what I was doing and felt incompetent and terrified.

[David Remnick]

That you'd break the baby?

[Andy Borowitz]

Yeah, exactly. That I'd break the baby.

[David Remnick]

What else?

[Andy Borowitz]

Okay. The other thing I did was I read lots of dad blogs. Like, tons of dad blogs.

[David Remnick]

You're making me feel so guilty.

[Andy Borowitz]

Dad blogs are, like, unbelievable. They're all obsessed with gear, you know, like baby stuff that dads can buy. A lot of them have a, for lack of a better word, like a tactical sensibility.

[David Remnick]

Like, what does that mean?

[Andy Borowitz]

It means a lot of the stuff looks sort of militaristic. And there's a whole kind of, like, tactical dad. Like, you're ready for all eventualities. You have a backpack with tons of pockets in it and it has, like, a special compartment for diapers, another special compartment for one piece.

[David Remnick]

So, like military cargo pants but for the baby?

[Andy Borowitz]

Yeah. Somehow I got down this rabbit hole and there was one blog that I found recommended. It went through the best tiny flashlights for a dad to own, to be prepared for anything. And I bought one and I have it here, and it's awesome. It's made by this company called Raylight.

[David Remnick]

You were having a child or going on expedition, an expedition into, like, the jungles of Indonesia.

[Andy Borowitz]

So it's like this.

[David Remnick]

Look at this thing.

[Andy Borowitz]

Huge, brass, heavy flashlight.

[David Remnick]

Oh, my God. It looks like it's about 5 inches long. And you would find it buried under the sea in some sort of Jules Verne expedition. The thing weighs 22 pounds.

[Andy Borowitz]

Awesome. And the main reason it's great is it has this special low light mode that you can use to inspect, like, the diaper situation in the dark without waking your kid so you can go on, like, a covert mission.

[David Remnick]

Little tip here from a longtime parent. You should be able to do that with your eyes closed, my friend.

[Andy Borowitz]

That might be true.

[David Remnick]

Sense of smell should give it right away.

[Andy Borowitz]

So this has been. This has been, like, the best thing. I use it every night.

[David Remnick]

Excellent.

[Andy Borowitz]

Okay, we got a book.

[David Remnick]

We got the flashlight.

[Andy Borowitz]

Yeah. And then I guess in the year up to when our baby was born, I had read the Norwegian novelist Karlova Knausgard has this series of books that he's written that are letters to his unborn daughters. And if you wrote four books, they're each named after season. So there's like autumn, winter, spring, summer. It's this, like, hyper sweet concept. And I had read these books. They sort of encouraged you to think about what life would be like for this new person. And they, they made you think about how when you had this kid, you would like, see life differently too. In the first of those books, which is called Autumn, Ganous Guard has this little essay called Infants, and it's just about babies. So he writes, holding an infant close to one's body is one of the great joys in life, perhaps the greatest. This is when the child is newborn and so tiny that the adult's palms nearly cover its little body completely, when its gaze seems to float and only rarely fastens on something in its surroundings. And one senses that for the baby, being in the world is almost exclusively sensual. The warmth and softness of the body that the infant nestles against, the lukewarm milk that fills its tummy sleep which overcomes it so deliciously every few hours. For the newborn infant, everything revolves around equalizing the differences between itself and the surroundings, getting everything warm, close, soft. A sudden drop in temperature opens a chasm between the infant and reality. So does a sudden sound or a sudden movement, and it screams. Satisfying these simple demands is a pleasure because they're simple, because doing so involves an interaction, a rhythm, a song, and because the closeness it requires fulfills a wish which is almost a desire to protect, to give, to care for.

[David Remnick]

Joshua Rothman, a newly minted father reading from Carl Ove Knauskaard's essay collection Autumn. I'm David Remnick and that's it for today. Thanks for joining us. I hope you'll join us next time.

[Andy Borowitz]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker.

[Derek Smalls]

Our theme music was composed and performed.

[Andy Borowitz]

By Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Alexis Cuadrado. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Chorina Endowment Fund.